Talk:Nicholas and Alexandra: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 05:41, 1 April 2015

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Like always I will add the screencaps later. I always preferr to make an article first with text and then add photos. The latter will be uploaded tomorrow. Dudester32 (talk) 13:06, 23 February 2015 (EST)

You can always do this on the talk page or on a personal sandbox. Leaving a page in this state just looks bad. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:14, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Did not know there was a sandbox. In any case I'll think about it next time. Dudester32 (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Here. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:46, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Fankoo! Dudester32 (talk) 13:47, 23 February 2015 (EST)

My two cents: Lee-Enfield rifles look more like Mannlicher or Carcano. Carbines aren't M1907 but rather M1938. MG08-style Maxims are visually modified Vickers. The short-barrel revolvers are Webley Bulldog. Unknown revolver #1 seems to be a Colt, while Unknown revolver #2 looks like S&W M&P. Greg-Z (talk) 04:38, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Regarding Lee-Enfield. The LE-rifles in the movie seems to have the trademark LE-magazine. The Mannlicher and Carcano rifles, assuming I've seen them all, have smooth magazines attached. Dudester32 (talk) 05:36, 24 February 2015 (EST)

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Several Lee-Enfield looking rifles in the hands of Bolshevik soldiers.

I've never heard about Lee-Enfield with straight bolt handle, that's why I looked on Mannlichers. If these rifles are LE, then they look like pre-SMLE Mk.I (note the forend of the barrel). Greg-Z (talk) 05:56, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Me neither. Thats why I was skeptical too. They dont look 100% like a LE we are used too. Dudester32 (talk) 05:58, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Those are definitely not Enfields. --Funkychinaman (talk) 06:58, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Then what are they? I don't know of any other rifle with that same magazine. Im not saying they are Lee-Enfields, but I have no other rifle in mind. Dudester32 (talk) 07:02, 24 February 2015 (EST)

At first I thought maybe Gewehr 88s, but I don't think that's what they are. It appears the filming was done in Spain and Yugoslavia, so we can go from there. You may also want to reach out to Nyles or Stomper. Those guys know their old rifles. --Funkychinaman (talk) 07:35, 24 February 2015 (EST)

I'll do that. Dudester32 (talk) 10:04, 24 February 2015 (EST)

As for the Maxim MG08. I have no reason to doubt that you are correct with regards to them being modified Vickers. I am curious however as to why the producers converted the Vickers in the first place as there already are Vickers featured in the movie. Dudester32 (talk) 05:46, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Here are a couple of screens that I didnt use of the rifles. Dudester32 (talk) 10:04, 24 February 2015 (EST)

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Unused screencap.

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Unused screencap.

FEG 35M? You don't see that band in the grip often. --Funkychinaman (talk) 14:25, 24 February 2015 (EST)

FEG 35M has a closed top of the stock, while the majority of screen rifles have open top. Maybe Carcano M91/41? It matches for many features, such as the position of the bolt handle, the position of sling swivels, the shape of the stock and barrel. And post-war Yugoslavia had enough Italian rifles while they hardly had much Hungarian rifles. Greg-Z (talk) 14:44, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Wish I could contribute to the rifle talk but my guesses are as good as the others - Either a Mannlicher or Carcano, maybe a Mauser variant (I lean towards a Mannlicher personally). As for the revolvers, the second is definitely a 5" barreled M&P variant, specifically it could actually be a Smith & Wesson Victory Model / .38/200 British Service revolver - I say that since it appears to have a parkerized finish and there seems to be quite a few older Brit guns in the mix here, it seems likely. As for the first one, well, if it was a Colt, it'd be either a Police Positive or Official Police given the front sight style, but looking at it, though the angle makes it tough to tell, I think this revolver might have a socketed ejector rod, if so, it's probably the same S&W being re-used. Can any other shots of that revolver be got? StanTheMan (talk) 13:37, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Here is a link to a Carcano info page, and here is another link to FEG 35M Google picture search. In those photos the problem remain the same: In the movie they are carrying a rifle that strongly ressembles very trademark, (dead give away), Lee-Enfield magazine. Dudester32 (talk) 15:35, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Also, if you look at the rifle in the second "Unused screencap" photo, note the bolt stop mounted on the left side. Neither the Carcano or the FEG 35M has that. Mausers do however. Dudester32 (talk) 15:42, 24 February 2015 (EST)

StanTheMan, I'll see what I can do, The revolvers in those scenes in question weren't very graphic. Dudester32 (talk) 15:35, 24 February 2015 (EST)

That's fine. Also, the Colt semiauto appears more to be a nickel 1903/1908, rather than any 1911 variant. StanTheMan (talk) 18:10, 24 February 2015 (EST)

Another unused screen of Prince Felix Yusupov's revolver. Dudester32 (talk) 05:09, 25 February 2015 (EST)

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Here is a closeup of the magazine on the mysterious rifle. Its definetely a Lee-Enfield type though the rifles aren't of any "classic" Lee-Enfield model I know of. Dudester32 (talk) 12:25, 25 February 2015 (EST)

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Not a Lee-Metford or Remington-Lee M1885 either. --Funkychinaman (talk) 12:54, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Exactly! As far as I can tell, this rifle has the classic Lee-Enfield magazine, a metal-band just behind the trigger (also like on a Lee-enfield) but it also has a Mauser style bolt stop. The bolt handle is ahead of the trigger as opposed to the Lee-Enfields rearward placing. The muzzle of the rifle is also more like a mauser as opposed to a Lee-Enfield. In short: It looks like a Lee-Enfield/Mauser hybrid. Apprently there are rare examples of a Lee-enfield being modified into a "new" rifle. The "Turkish Enfield Mauser Hybrid" is one example, though this particular hybrid is not identical to the movie verison. Dudester32 (talk) 13:06, 25 February 2015 (EST)

My next move will be to do some googling on Spain and Yugoslavian weapons. The movie was shot there so it's a good bet they used some of the local weaponry. Dudester32 (talk) 17:19, 25 February 2015 (EST)

I've been doing that. If it's Spanish, they got a mix of weapons donated to them during the civil war. There are a lot of possibilities. --Funkychinaman (talk) 17:21, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Roger that..I'll do my part just in case I get lucky. By the way, I have to admit it is refreshing to find (and try to solve) a mystery such as this :). Most of the time it's not this difficult. Dudester32 (talk) 17:27, 25 February 2015 (EST)

If it helps anyone in identifying the rifle, here is a closeup of the bayonet attached to the rifle in question. Dudester32 (talk) 06:39, 26 February 2015 (EST)

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I know for Doctor Zhivago, which covered the same time period and was also shot in Spain, they adapted socket bayonets from Remington Rolling Block rifles. --Funkychinaman (talk) 07:13, 26 February 2015 (EST)

I believe the rifles are Spanish M1893 Mausers that have been visually modified to resemble Mosin-Nagant M91 via the addition of the M91/30 socket/spike bayonet. Some of them also seem to have been modified to resemble Lee-Metford or Lee-Enfield Mk.I rifles via the placement of an Enfield magazine in the Mauser's magazine well, and a metal band wrapped around the wrist of the stock; perhaps this was for a different film. The action is definitely a Mauser Model 1893, and the stock, handguard, and sights match as well. The bayonet on this rifle is a Mosin M91/30 bayonet; the locking button is clearly visible. The M38 carbines are actually M44 carbines with the permanently attached folding bayonet deployed; the M38 cannot normally mount a bayonet.--Stomper (talk) 23:30, 31 March 2015 (EDT)

I believe the revolver used by Prince Felix and Dr. Lazovert are S&W type revolvers, maybe M&P's or Spanish clones. As for the one's in the final scene, I'm think the Schofield is the one in the center, while the one on the right looks like a later made S&W or Astra type revolver. The one on the last is the weirdest one though, it has a non-fluted cylinder and some other modifications to it. Best guess would be another S&W or Spanish Clone. PaperCake 01:40, 1 April 2015 (EST)

Cant get any further right now

I've made the necessary changes to the article reflecting what we know about the rifles and handguns. Personally I havent found anything new on the rifle-model besides what we've already brought up. I'm gonna ask a third-party about them and maybe I'll get lucky. Dudester32 (talk) 10:02, 27 February 2015 (EST)

@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 I believe the rifles are [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#1893_Spanish_Mauser|Spanish M1893 Mausers]] that have been visually modified to resemble Mosin-Nagant M91 via the addition of the M91/30 socket/spike bayonet. Some of them also seem to have been modified to resemble [[media:Leemk1.jpg|Lee-Metford or Lee-Enfield Mk.I rifles]] via the placement of an Enfield magazine in the Mauser's magazine well, and a metal band wrapped around the wrist of the stock; perhaps this was for a different film. [[media:NicholasAlexandra_rifles_(2).jpg|The action]] is definitely a Mauser Model 1893, and the stock, handguard, and sights match as well. [[media:NicholasAlexandrabayonet.jpg|The bayonet on this rifle]] is a Mosin M91/30 bayonet; the locking button is clearly visible. The M38 carbines are actually M44 carbines with the permanently attached folding bayonet deployed; the M38 cannot normally mount a bayonet.--[[User:Stomper|Stomper]] ([[User talk:Stomper|talk]]) 23:30, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
+I believe the revolver used by Prince Felix and Dr. Lazovert are S&W type revolvers, maybe M&P's or Spanish clones. As for the one's in the final scene, I'm think the Schofield is the one in the center, while the one on the right looks like a later made S&W or Astra type revolver. The one on the last is the weirdest one though, it has a non-fluted cylinder and some other modifications to it. Best guess would be another S&W or Spanish Clone.    [[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 01:40, 1 April 2015 (EST)
 == Cant get any further right now ==
 I've made the necessary changes to the article reflecting what we know about the rifles and handguns. Personally I havent found anything new on the rifle-model besides what we've already brought up. I'm gonna ask a third-party about them and maybe I'll get lucky. [[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 10:02, 27 February 2015 (EST)

Talk:Nicholas and Alexandra: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 05:41, 1 April 2015

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