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Talk:Maxim: Difference between revisions
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:Machine gun terminology from this era is very woolly, as it can sometimes depend more on the role that the weapon was used in rather than the characteristics of the weapon itself. For example, the Vickers in the exact same configuration was called both an MMG and an HMG by the British Army depending on how they were issued at the time. Generally speaking though, if it is on a heavy bipod or wheel mount like the majority of Maxim variants, it is safe to call it an HMG based on WW1 nomenclature (when we get to WW2 though a lot of these types of gun are reclassified as MMGs though, as HMGs chambered in round like .50 BMG have come along). An MG08/15 fits the definition of an MMG, as it is belt fed still really requiring a crew, but it can be used from a bipod and be carried around the battlefield with comparative ease. Some people say that the MG08/15 is an LMG, but I disagree as it requires a crew of 4 to use effectively, cannot realistically be fired on the move, and is far heavier than other true LMGs weighing in at 42 pounds unloaded (LMGs of the time tended to weigh between 20 and 30 pounds). LMGs tend not to be belt fed using magazines or pans, and can be operated by a single soldier although they often have an assistant working as a loader and ammo bearer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:39, 8 April 2017 (EDT) | :Machine gun terminology from this era is very woolly, as it can sometimes depend more on the role that the weapon was used in rather than the characteristics of the weapon itself. For example, the Vickers in the exact same configuration was called both an MMG and an HMG by the British Army depending on how they were issued at the time. Generally speaking though, if it is on a heavy bipod or wheel mount like the majority of Maxim variants, it is safe to call it an HMG based on WW1 nomenclature (when we get to WW2 though a lot of these types of gun are reclassified as MMGs though, as HMGs chambered in round like .50 BMG have come along). An MG08/15 fits the definition of an MMG, as it is belt fed still really requiring a crew, but it can be used from a bipod and be carried around the battlefield with comparative ease. Some people say that the MG08/15 is an LMG, but I disagree as it requires a crew of 4 to use effectively, cannot realistically be fired on the move, and is far heavier than other true LMGs weighing in at 42 pounds unloaded (LMGs of the time tended to weigh between 20 and 30 pounds). LMGs tend not to be belt fed using magazines or pans, and can be operated by a single soldier although they often have an assistant working as a loader and ammo bearer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:39, 8 April 2017 (EDT) | ||
::Thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:49, 8 April 2017 (EDT) | ::Thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:49, 8 April 2017 (EDT) | ||
:::It's more that the definition has changed: in modern use, HMG requires a calibre of at least .50 / 12.7mm and less than about 20mm (after that it becomes an autocannon). So we could say of the HMG versions, "classified as an HMG at the time, but in modern use it would be considered an extremely unwieldy medium machine gun" (rather like I've done on the pages for the Japanese Hotchkiss clones). It's a bit like how some pre-Dreadnoughts were so light that in WW2 they probably wouldn't even have been considered battleships (eg the first USS ''Texas'' which weighed less than a modern cruiser and only had two main guns). | |||
:::The Chinese one has the qualifier that "Type 24 Heavy Machine Gun" is, I believe, the weapon's actual name. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:01, 9 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
Revision as of 08:01, 9 April 2017
Additional variants
Topic
There was also a series of books (and movies based on them) called 08/15. 08/15 has entered the German language as a synonym for common, basic, standard, no-frills. The details of the etymology are a bit hazy, but all theories ultimately seem to trace the origin of the term back to the gun, just in slightly different ways. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/08/15_%28Redewendung%29
- From this wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_MG_08 [1], "The word 08/15 lives on as an idiom in colloquial German, 08/15 (pronounced German: Null-acht-fuffzehn), being used even today as an adjective to denote something totally ordinary and lacking in originality or specialness." Wraith
M1910 and M1910/30 differances
Does anyone know what the differences are between these two guns? As far as I knew, the only difference was that the /30 had a large circular trap door on the top of the jacket so that snow could be used. However, apart from the one in Enemy at the Gates all the guns listed as M1910/30s don't have this, so just wanted to check if anyone knew of any other differences that make make the current IDs correct before I changed stuff around. --commando552 12:42, 2 August 2011 (CDT)
Need opinion on "Maxim" MG in the movie "All quiet on the western front"
The article for the movie All quiet on the western front (1979) describes the German machine gun featured as Maxim M08. I however am not so sure. Look at the original MG08 and a screencap from the movie (dont forget to zoom in:
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First: Note the barrel is at the center of the water jacket. Second: Though not visible in the photo (but in the movie), the machine guns rear operating handles are actually identical to the contemporary Schwarzlose machine gun:
The problem is the movie machine guns barrel which is placed in the center of the water jacket, which no MG's had during WW1 as far as I know. It might be possible the machine gun featured in the movie is a mockup: A modern MG made to look like an old one. Any opinions? Dudester32 (talk) 15:17, 9 July 2013 (EDT)
- I think this is the same MG here. Both were filmed in Czechoslovakia in consecutive years. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2013 (EDT)
- Sounds reasonable to me! All add the changes to the All Quiet article. Dudester32 (talk) 14:25, 10 July 2013 (EDT)
Caliber
Isn't this gun's caliber .303 British instead of 7.92mm Mauser? As Wikipedia says. TitaniumAlloy (talk) 12:02, 13 August 2013 (EDT)
- In various countries Maxim machine guns were of different calibers, including .303 British, 7.92 Mauser, 7.62 Russian and many others. Greg-Z (talk) 14:47, 13 August 2013 (EDT)
Russian “Tractor Cap” or “Snow Cap” Maxim article
Found a good article on the Russian "Tractor cap" maxim. Dudester32 (talk) 11:02, 16 March 2015 (EDT)
Weapon classification
It's pretty clear that some of these old types of rounds such as the 7.92x57mm cannot solely define a machine gun's true classification (this cartridge has been mentioned to be used on light, medium and heavy machine guns). That said, are most variations of the Maxim technically heavy machine guns? And regarding the MG08/15, does it fall under medium machine gun? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:37, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
- Machine gun terminology from this era is very woolly, as it can sometimes depend more on the role that the weapon was used in rather than the characteristics of the weapon itself. For example, the Vickers in the exact same configuration was called both an MMG and an HMG by the British Army depending on how they were issued at the time. Generally speaking though, if it is on a heavy bipod or wheel mount like the majority of Maxim variants, it is safe to call it an HMG based on WW1 nomenclature (when we get to WW2 though a lot of these types of gun are reclassified as MMGs though, as HMGs chambered in round like .50 BMG have come along). An MG08/15 fits the definition of an MMG, as it is belt fed still really requiring a crew, but it can be used from a bipod and be carried around the battlefield with comparative ease. Some people say that the MG08/15 is an LMG, but I disagree as it requires a crew of 4 to use effectively, cannot realistically be fired on the move, and is far heavier than other true LMGs weighing in at 42 pounds unloaded (LMGs of the time tended to weigh between 20 and 30 pounds). LMGs tend not to be belt fed using magazines or pans, and can be operated by a single soldier although they often have an assistant working as a loader and ammo bearer. --commando552 (talk) 18:39, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
- Thanks for the clarification. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:49, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
- It's more that the definition has changed: in modern use, HMG requires a calibre of at least .50 / 12.7mm and less than about 20mm (after that it becomes an autocannon). So we could say of the HMG versions, "classified as an HMG at the time, but in modern use it would be considered an extremely unwieldy medium machine gun" (rather like I've done on the pages for the Japanese Hotchkiss clones). It's a bit like how some pre-Dreadnoughts were so light that in WW2 they probably wouldn't even have been considered battleships (eg the first USS Texas which weighed less than a modern cruiser and only had two main guns).
- The Chinese one has the qualifier that "Type 24 Heavy Machine Gun" is, I believe, the weapon's actual name. Evil Tim (talk) 04:01, 9 April 2017 (EDT)
- Thanks for the clarification. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:49, 8 April 2017 (EDT)