Talk:The Guns of Navarone: Difference between revisions
Talk:The Guns of Navarone: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:The Guns of Navarone: Difference between revisions
I see someones removed the Sten Mk.1* and the screencaps. Its pretty obvious that for any scenes where the commando's don't fire their weapons they carry the Mk.1*, substituting the prop gun for the action scenes.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 13:19, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
:I was the one who got rid of the Mk I* section and changed it to Mk II when I split up the Sten page and sorted out all the pages for the correct Mark. However, there were never any extra screen shots, those are the only two that were ever on the page. I could only go by the screenshots that were on the page as I don't have the film, and they most closely resemble the Mk II with the barrel cut down as the heatshield on a Mk I* is much longer than on the gun shown. If you have any other screecaps to show that the weapons change to Mk I* Stens for non firing scenes feel free to add them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:39, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
Mauser M1934 or Beretta M1934?
Mauser M1934 or Beretta M1934?
There was only one suppressed pistol used by both Spyros Pappadimos and Keith Mallory, Mallory obtains it from Maria Pappadimos after she shoots the traitor Anna and its this pistol he uses in the fortress. As far as i can tell there were no Beretta's in the film only a Mauser which may have been the only Mauser on set. This could be confirmed in the scene when the SS Captain tortures Franklin he uses an Artillery Luger and not a pistol carried by Mallory's team.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 23:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
There was only one suppressed pistol used by both Spyros Pappadimos and Keith Mallory, Mallory obtains it from Maria Pappadimos after she shoots the traitor Anna and its this pistol he uses in the fortress. As far as i can tell there were no Beretta's in the film only a Mauser which may have been the only Mauser on set. This could be confirmed in the scene when the SS Captain tortures Franklin he uses an Artillery Luger and not a pistol carried by Mallory's team.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 23:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:There is more than one Mauser. The one Mallory almost uses to shoot Anna is a different one from the suppressed one used by Spyros and given to Maria. They both have their weapons out in the same scene so it can't be the same gun, unless some ''very'' clever editing was employed. - [[User:Kooshmeister|Kooshmeister]]
:There is more than one Mauser. The one Mallory almost uses to shoot Anna is a different one from the suppressed one used by Spyros and given to Maria. They both have their weapons out in the same scene so it can't be the same gun, unless some ''very'' clever editing was employed. - [[User:Kooshmeister|Kooshmeister]]
::Ive just watched the film again and theres definately no Beretta in it. Yes Mallory points a Mauser at Anna, but he take Spyro's pistol off Maria after she shoots Anna, so why would he remove a suppressor thats been made for Spyro' gun and attach it to Muesel's? Mallory uses Spyro's gun to kill the two guards at the fort. Also after carefully watching the earlier scenes, it seems that Spyro is attaching a suppressor to a Jetfire pistol, the suppressor is screwed right onto the pistol as far as the trigger guard. Can anyone screencap these scenes to allow a more accurate impression?
::Ive just watched the film again and theres definately no Beretta in it. Yes Mallory points a Mauser at Anna, but he take Spyro's pistol off Maria after she shoots Anna, so why would he remove a suppressor thats been made for Spyro' gun and attach it to Muesel's? Mallory uses Spyro's gun to kill the two guards at the fort. Also after carefully watching the earlier scenes, it seems that Spyro is attaching a suppressor to a Beretta Bobcat or even a Beretta Jetfire pistol, the suppressor is screwed right onto the pistol as far as the trigger guard. Can anyone screencap these scenes to allow a more accurate impression?--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 21:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
You can get a good look at Muesel's pistol at the wedding scene when he holds it directly over their table, and it looks like it has a longer barrel than normal - adapted for fitting a silencer? Now a regular German officer wouldn't have a silencer-adapted pistol, so have they just mixed up regular and adapted pistols between scenes? IKD 9 Oct 2010
Mosin 91/30? I'm not sure Andrea's rifle is this. When he changes position among the rocks on the hill (he holds it with his right hand around the action) you can glimpse a pistol grip on the stock, and the butt actually looks very nice. The scope also looks a bit too long. IKD 9 OCt 2010
Spyro's Gun - when they are captured at the wedding, Spyro pulls out a pistol but is stopped by Miller (David Niven), who puts his hand over Spyro's. I think this might be a .32" Webley automatic from the exposed barrel, shape of the slide and ejector port and trigger guard. Any ideas? IKD 9 Oct 2010
I can't upload pics so I've stuck some on photobucket instead - maybe someone can copy them? There should be:
3 assorted glimpses of Stavros' rifle - if that's a Mosin-Nagant (I don't think it is) then it has been sporterized;
2 Bren related shots - Spyro loading a magazine, and then using the uncovered Bren to finish off a sailor when Brown freezes;
Muesel's (non-standard?) Mauser 1934;
Spyro's pistol (.32" Webley?);
Brown holding a guard at gunpoint - but with the slide clearly locked back!
[http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn75/IainKD/Film%20Stills/] IKD 10 Feb 2011
==More Guns==
Had these in my hard drive and figured I'd better upload them. I'll try and get a screenshot of the Bren used on the boat soon. - [[User:Kooshmeister|Kooshmeister]]
===German Patrol Boat Gun===
The German patrol boat is armed with a large gun.
[[Image:navarone4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A German sailor fires on the fishing boat with the gun.]]
[[Image:navarone5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rear view of the weapon as the gunner is killed.]]
It looks like a [[Oerlikon 20mm Cannon]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:: - I agree with FCM. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
== Mk 1 Sten revisited ==
After going through the movie and taking a few screens I'm convinced there were never any real Mk II in the movie (besides Marias Mk.IIs). As far as I can see all the actors (minus Maria and Anna) use Mk.I and switch to propguns that ressemble Mk.II's. These propguns fire only flame: There is no cycle, no brass ejection or even minimal of recoil.
As an example: Check out these two screens from the same scene. (zoom in and check out the left-most gun in the two scenes)
[[File:Stenmk1_gunsvaraone_3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Andrea on the left firing a mockup propgun]]
[[File:Stenmk1_gunsvaraone_4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|After briefly switching view the camera returns to Andrea, but this time he is using a regular Mk.I as he is done firing.]]
Based on this I've reinserted the Mk.I entry. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 10:03, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:Also! This quote from the article: ''"All scenes where an actor actually fires a Sten gun, a prop gun is actually used that is fitted with a small flame device to represent the guns flash.."'' is incorrect. Major Keith fires a real blank-firing Mk.I (instead of a mockup) during the boarding-scene. Later Andreas uses his (real) Mk.I to kill a soldier in the back of a truck. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 10:09, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
::It is odd that the "real" guns they use are Mk I*s, but the prop weapons they built are based on Mk IIs (as noted by the short heat-shield, protruding barrel and the front sight mounted at the rear of the heat-shield rather than the front). Makes me think that they were originally built for another production. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:::Thats not a bad theory. There was never a lack of WW2 movies in those days that needed propweapons. It might have been an emergency solution for a problem the filmmakers encountered. Perhaps they shot some scenes and didnt have the Mk.I blank-firing gear available. Maybe the second unit had propguns and first unit had blank-firing guns or something. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 12:05, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I think i wrote the ''"All scenes etc..."'' line, i never realised the boat scene - great spot. Another clue to the 2 different Sten guns could be the locations, whilst they shot virtually everything on Rhodes a lot of stuff was filmed at a British studio back lot. The whole gun cave sequence, cliff climbing and the shipwreck scenes i know for certain. May be they also shot some of the gun battle on the boat there as well, i believe they constructed a huge water tank for the shipwreck scenes????--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 17:46, 2 August 2012 (CDT)
== Character "Anna" and her rifle ==
Early in the movie the character "Anna" is seen carrying what is most likely a bolt-action rifle. The screen below is the only viable view of the rifle. She never uses it, only carries it on her back.
Can anyone identify it via the screenshot?
[[File:Anna_gunsnavarone_rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Anna" with unidentified rifle.]]
[[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 12:26, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:It's a [[Mauser Gewehr 1898|Mauser 98]] of some sort, so would guess it is a [[Karabiner 98k]] which appears elsewhere in the film (assuming that ID is correct). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:35, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
::Makes sense then. Most likely that rifle was captured from the Germans (and reused by the producers from the German soldiers). :) [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 14:24, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:::Yeah, it's a Kar 98 with the cleaning rod removed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:15, 21 March 2015 (EDT)
== Andreas Sniper rifle ==
I do not think that the article-stated fact that Andreas Sniper Rifle is a Mosin Nagant Rifle. The rifle in the movie has a pistol-type grip, where as the MN does not. And by pistol-grip I mean like this below:
[[File:MSSporter1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Mannlicher-Schoenauer Sporter with Scope]]
As compared to a MN-rifle as stated in the article:
To be honest the movie-rifle looks like the above Mannlicher-Shoenauer. I cant confirm it though [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 14:38, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
*edit*
After double-checking I'm 99% sure its not a MN-rifle. The pistol-grip is definietely there, and the forward sight is actually identical to the above Mannlicher-Shoenauer rather than the MN. I'll change the article accordingly. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 14:43, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:[[Mauser 98 Sporter]]? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 09:40, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
::Looks like a good candidate...Unfortunately that weapon and the Mannlicher look so alike its impossible to tell. Heaven knows how many other visibly similar rifles there are. [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 12:37, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
::I uploaded a more high-res version of Andreas rifle in action: (dont forget to zoom in)
::Can anyone discern any unique details? [[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 12:41, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
:::It isn't a Mannlicher-Shoenauer as the bolt handle is too far back. The position is a match for a Mauser 98 sporter, and the shape of the bolt handle matches too. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:53, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
::::The end of the bolt-handle looks similar too. Can we be certain its a Mauser and not a copy? I dont know any other models beyond these two.[[User:Dudster32|Dudster32]] 15:07, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
Old topic, but I got a better screenshot of the rifle. [[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 05:50, 4 March 2015 (EST)
The bolt handle looks like this one (minus the black coloring)
[[File:Mau 0571-01.jpg|thumb|none|350px|German-style Mauser 98 Sporter Model B - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
== Publicity still ==
Check out this publicity still of the cast bearing weapons: [http://www.guesswhichmovie.com/gimage/08149d30c7234de734b8e332b3867c2c.jpg The cast.] [[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 11:45, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
Very nice. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Navaronecast.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
== Astra 400 ==
I'm not convinced the Unknown pistol is a Astra 400. I see the ressemblance but a few key points stand out. The movie version has a different trigger guard and it is positioned closer to the barrel than the Astra 400. The barrel (movie) looks thinner and has this strange extension/(supressor?) at the end of it. [[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 03:27, 17 November 2015 (EST)
[http://oi65.tinypic.com/5b8z6q.jpg Closeup on the movie gun]
I see someones removed the Sten Mk.1* and the screencaps. Its pretty obvious that for any scenes where the commando's don't fire their weapons they carry the Mk.1*, substituting the prop gun for the action scenes.--The Mercenary 13:19, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
I was the one who got rid of the Mk I* section and changed it to Mk II when I split up the Sten page and sorted out all the pages for the correct Mark. However, there were never any extra screen shots, those are the only two that were ever on the page. I could only go by the screenshots that were on the page as I don't have the film, and they most closely resemble the Mk II with the barrel cut down as the heatshield on a Mk I* is much longer than on the gun shown. If you have any other screecaps to show that the weapons change to Mk I* Stens for non firing scenes feel free to add them. --commando552 13:39, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
Mauser M1934 or Beretta M1934?
There was only one suppressed pistol used by both Spyros Pappadimos and Keith Mallory, Mallory obtains it from Maria Pappadimos after she shoots the traitor Anna and its this pistol he uses in the fortress. As far as i can tell there were no Beretta's in the film only a Mauser which may have been the only Mauser on set. This could be confirmed in the scene when the SS Captain tortures Franklin he uses an Artillery Luger and not a pistol carried by Mallory's team.--The Mercenary 23:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
There is more than one Mauser. The one Mallory almost uses to shoot Anna is a different one from the suppressed one used by Spyros and given to Maria. They both have their weapons out in the same scene so it can't be the same gun, unless some very clever editing was employed. - Kooshmeister
Ive just watched the film again and theres definately no Beretta in it. Yes Mallory points a Mauser at Anna, but he take Spyro's pistol off Maria after she shoots Anna, so why would he remove a suppressor thats been made for Spyro' gun and attach it to Muesel's? Mallory uses Spyro's gun to kill the two guards at the fort. Also after carefully watching the earlier scenes, it seems that Spyro is attaching a suppressor to a Beretta Bobcat or even a Beretta Jetfire pistol, the suppressor is screwed right onto the pistol as far as the trigger guard. Can anyone screencap these scenes to allow a more accurate impression?--The Mercenary 21:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
You can get a good look at Muesel's pistol at the wedding scene when he holds it directly over their table, and it looks like it has a longer barrel than normal - adapted for fitting a silencer? Now a regular German officer wouldn't have a silencer-adapted pistol, so have they just mixed up regular and adapted pistols between scenes? IKD 9 Oct 2010
Mosin 91/30? I'm not sure Andrea's rifle is this. When he changes position among the rocks on the hill (he holds it with his right hand around the action) you can glimpse a pistol grip on the stock, and the butt actually looks very nice. The scope also looks a bit too long. IKD 9 OCt 2010
Spyro's Gun - when they are captured at the wedding, Spyro pulls out a pistol but is stopped by Miller (David Niven), who puts his hand over Spyro's. I think this might be a .32" Webley automatic from the exposed barrel, shape of the slide and ejector port and trigger guard. Any ideas? IKD 9 Oct 2010
I can't upload pics so I've stuck some on photobucket instead - maybe someone can copy them? There should be:
3 assorted glimpses of Stavros' rifle - if that's a Mosin-Nagant (I don't think it is) then it has been sporterized;
2 Bren related shots - Spyro loading a magazine, and then using the uncovered Bren to finish off a sailor when Brown freezes;
Muesel's (non-standard?) Mauser 1934;
Spyro's pistol (.32" Webley?);
Brown holding a guard at gunpoint - but with the slide clearly locked back!
[1] IKD 10 Feb 2011
More Guns
Had these in my hard drive and figured I'd better upload them. I'll try and get a screenshot of the Bren used on the boat soon. - Kooshmeister
- I agree with FCM. StanTheMan 01:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Mk 1 Sten revisited
After going through the movie and taking a few screens I'm convinced there were never any real Mk II in the movie (besides Marias Mk.IIs). As far as I can see all the actors (minus Maria and Anna) use Mk.I and switch to propguns that ressemble Mk.II's. These propguns fire only flame: There is no cycle, no brass ejection or even minimal of recoil.
As an example: Check out these two screens from the same scene. (zoom in and check out the left-most gun in the two scenes)
Based on this I've reinserted the Mk.I entry. Dudster32 10:03, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
Also! This quote from the article: "All scenes where an actor actually fires a Sten gun, a prop gun is actually used that is fitted with a small flame device to represent the guns flash.." is incorrect. Major Keith fires a real blank-firing Mk.I (instead of a mockup) during the boarding-scene. Later Andreas uses his (real) Mk.I to kill a soldier in the back of a truck. Dudster32 10:09, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
It is odd that the "real" guns they use are Mk I*s, but the prop weapons they built are based on Mk IIs (as noted by the short heat-shield, protruding barrel and the front sight mounted at the rear of the heat-shield rather than the front). Makes me think that they were originally built for another production. --commando552 11:21, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
Thats not a bad theory. There was never a lack of WW2 movies in those days that needed propweapons. It might have been an emergency solution for a problem the filmmakers encountered. Perhaps they shot some scenes and didnt have the Mk.I blank-firing gear available. Maybe the second unit had propguns and first unit had blank-firing guns or something. Dudster32 12:05, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
I think i wrote the "All scenes etc..." line, i never realised the boat scene - great spot. Another clue to the 2 different Sten guns could be the locations, whilst they shot virtually everything on Rhodes a lot of stuff was filmed at a British studio back lot. The whole gun cave sequence, cliff climbing and the shipwreck scenes i know for certain. May be they also shot some of the gun battle on the boat there as well, i believe they constructed a huge water tank for the shipwreck scenes????--The Mercenary 17:46, 2 August 2012 (CDT)
Character "Anna" and her rifle
Early in the movie the character "Anna" is seen carrying what is most likely a bolt-action rifle. The screen below is the only viable view of the rifle. She never uses it, only carries it on her back.
Can anyone identify it via the screenshot?
It's a Mauser 98 of some sort, so would guess it is a Karabiner 98k which appears elsewhere in the film (assuming that ID is correct). --commando552 12:35, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
Makes sense then. Most likely that rifle was captured from the Germans (and reused by the producers from the German soldiers). :) Dudster32 14:24, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
Yeah, it's a Kar 98 with the cleaning rod removed. Evil Tim (talk) 00:15, 21 March 2015 (EDT)
Andreas Sniper rifle
I do not think that the article-stated fact that Andreas Sniper Rifle is a Mosin Nagant Rifle. The rifle in the movie has a pistol-type grip, where as the MN does not. And by pistol-grip I mean like this below:
As compared to a MN-rifle as stated in the article:
To be honest the movie-rifle looks like the above Mannlicher-Shoenauer. I cant confirm it though Dudster32 14:38, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
edit*
After double-checking I'm 99% sure its not a MN-rifle. The pistol-grip is definietely there, and the forward sight is actually identical to the above Mannlicher-Shoenauer rather than the MN. I'll change the article accordingly. Dudster32 14:43, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
Looks like a good candidate...Unfortunately that weapon and the Mannlicher look so alike its impossible to tell. Heaven knows how many other visibly similar rifles there are. Dudster32 12:37, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
I uploaded a more high-res version of Andreas rifle in action: (dont forget to zoom in)
Can anyone discern any unique details? Dudster32 12:41, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
It isn't a Mannlicher-Shoenauer as the bolt handle is too far back. The position is a match for a Mauser 98 sporter, and the shape of the bolt handle matches too. --commando552 13:53, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
The end of the bolt-handle looks similar too. Can we be certain its a Mauser and not a copy? I dont know any other models beyond these two.Dudster32 15:07, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
Old topic, but I got a better screenshot of the rifle. Dudester32 (talk) 05:50, 4 March 2015 (EST)
I'm not convinced the Unknown pistol is a Astra 400. I see the ressemblance but a few key points stand out. The movie version has a different trigger guard and it is positioned closer to the barrel than the Astra 400. The barrel (movie) looks thinner and has this strange extension/(supressor?) at the end of it. Dudester32 (talk) 03:27, 17 November 2015 (EST)
Closeup on the movie gun
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