Talk:Public Enemies

Firearms in "Public Enemies" Trailer

The "unidentified rifle" is actually the Remington Model 8 autoloader. Another semiauto rifle appears in the very last screenshot under the Thompson SMG section. While the bank robber in the foreground has a Thompson, the guy in the background is armed with what appears to be a Winchester Model 1907. Look closely at how the guy is holding the weapon at the trigger guard, it's obvious there's no pistol grip there and it's actually a stocked rifle. This particular rifle is modified with a vertical foregrip so at first glance it does appear to be a Thompson. These rifles were used by the Dillinger gang and can be seen in this photo of confiscated weapons: http://www.auto-ordnance.com/AO-3F3.html In the photo, a Winchester modified with a muzzle brake is right next to the Thompson. I also think I saw a Remington Model 11 autoloading shotgun in the trailer. It was in the hands of the FBI agent who bursts into Dillinger's room and knocks him down.--Phillb36 22:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Phillb36 - you are absolutely correct that the rifle in the backround is a Winchester 1907 - you can clearly see the distinctive 10-round magazine - good call! This should be a heck of a good movie.

Can't Wait To See This

I'm glad Michael Mann is back to making gun heavy movies (and ones that don't suck like Miami Vice...) and hope this has the same aspects as Heat. Prohibition is a great time for films to cover. - Gunmaster45

Yeah, I'm really excited about this one myself. The trailer alone was really cool. -MT2008

I read the script a few months ago and it looks pretty good. Although not 100% accurate, it does a really good job telling the true story of Dillinger and I think it'd be a great return to form for Mann, I'm really pumped for it. -Speakeasy804

Nyles here, didn't bother logging in. Man At Arms For The Gun Collector has an interesting article in the current issue that claims Dillinger carried a Super 38, not a .45 Government Model, and that the infamous machine pistols were also .38 Supers.

Dillinger carried .38 Supers, but we won't simply claim that on the page as one anonymous user kept doing (with poor grammer/spelling) because we don't actually know that they didn't just use .45s. Since Steve took photos of some of the guns used in this movie (note the M1911A1 from the film in the picture is in .45 ACP), he'd likely know if any of the guns were in .38 Super. Just assuming isn't good gun identification. Also, I think Purvis favored the .38 Super as well, but I may be wrong on that. As for the revolvers used in the movie, wait till the DVD comes out before we ID those, we can't play that as well by memory. - Gunmaster45

What was the shoulder rig Depp used??

---

I picked up a copy of the 2-Disc Special Edition the other day and sat down to watch it. The two-disc offered "extras" of behind the scenes stuff, which with my experience with Michael Mann's movies HEAT and Miami Vice (2006) proved to be almost more enjoyable than the movie itself. The inner dynamics that Mann brings to his productions is so interesting, and makes the production end result better, IMHO. Unlike the other two, there was no gun-training filmed, other than a photo shot of Johnny Depp taking aim on the range with a Thompson. Apparently, Depp really got into the role, Mann said he was intrigued by the Thompson, and scene of him field-stripping the Thompson bore that out. Stephen Dorff's observation of carrying the heavy B.A.R. was amusing however. I also want to thank you for the scenes of the "Machine Pistol" broken down in sequence. I got lost in the whole Little Bohemia firefight, the car scene went by so fast and all I saw was muzzle flash, no details of the scene. A good dose of reality? Another thing I like about Mann's productions, the intensity of the gun fights. - BC2009 December 19 2009.

Colt Terminology

There's some incorrect terminology used in this (and, technically, many other) articles in the site, but on this one it's really noticable. M1911 and M1911A1 only refers to pistols made for the US military - pistols made for the civilian market, with or without the A1 modifications, were called the 1911 Government Model. Now, that's a nitpicky point, since they're commonly refered to as 1911s today, and you usually have to see the markings to know the difference (though by the same token that's like calling every Beretta 92 an M9).

But what makes it glaring here is calling a .38 Super an M1911A1. It's not the same gun - not only was it not a military-issue pistol (the US military, since it's introduction in 1932, has acquired a grand total of 2 .38 Supers, depending on if you count a few hundred for the OSS), Colt didn't even consider it the same as a Government Model. It was sold as the Super 38, and that IS the commonly accepted term for it. Seems to me if we know it's a .38 Super, then we should be calling it a Super 38.

Visit the M1911 pistol series page for an explaination on why we call them M1911A1s, regardless. - Gunmaster45

I agree that it's pointless to try and differentiate M1911s from commerical 1911s (though I'd rather see them just called 1911s instead of M1911s), but a Super 38 isn't an M1911A1 OR a Government Model, it's a Super 38. I'm not saying it needs it's own page but it ought to have it's own heading on the 1911 page. Although it's kinda of a moot point, looking at the prop I see it's a 1960s era gun that they slapped some (incorrect) double diamond grips on, and by then production of .38 Supers actually had merged with the .45s.

Nyles: What you are say is correct in a way. The sales staff at Colt still called it a 1911 Government Model even though the pistol had the 1911A1 modifications to it. So to everyone out there that sees it it's a 1911A1 even the Colt Model 1927 pistols so to Brazil. The .38 Super like the .22 Ace is still based on the 1911A1 Government Model frame as only the top end is different. There is no point to make a sepparate page for the .38 Super variation. I know it's good to point this out but I agree was Gunmaster45 that it should stay the same. -Phoenixent 23:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm nor saying that we should make a seperate page, I say that quite clearly up there. Just that you shouldn't call a Super 38 an M1911. We differentiate between a 1911A1 and a Series 70, when the only difference is the barrel, a gun marketed under a different name, in a different caliber, using a different system for headspacing, should also be differentiated.

Also, the Model 1927 wasn't made for Brazil, it was for and in Argentina. Brazil used the S&W M1937, which was an updated M1917 revolver.

I wouldn't be totally opposed to making a separate entry on the 1911 page for the 38 Super. Only question is, do we know of any other movies besides Public Enemies that have used one? If not, then it seems just a tad pointless. -MT2008

The only .38 Super used in the movie was the machine pistol and it was changed to 9mm so what is the problem. You are shoveling .... on this the 1911 is the original configuration, the 1911A1 is a 1911 with governmernt changes, the series 70 has changes and the series 80 has changes. Each weapon had the designation changed either offically or unoffically to acknowledge the changes so what is the problem on this. Is the 38 super a completely different weapon the the 1911A1? The answer is no as you are talking about 7 parts in the top end and the frames and lower parts are all the same. I agree with MT2008 that it would be pointless to make a separate entry for it just not the differance. This is a listing of 1911 style handguns used in film not a Colt Automatic Pistol website with all change and part variations. The handguns used in the film are 1911A1 pre-war commercial pistols in .45 used to represent Dillingers .38 Super pistols. The machine pistol shoild have a separate entry as it might show up in another movie.-Phoenixent 09:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

1901 shotgun

Why would a lever gn need to be converted to fire blanks? I thought maually operated guns could cycle blanks anyway?

Nope. Shoot, chamber a new round. Lever, pump, and bolt actions dont need to be blank converted, only automatics. -The Winchester

To be honest, I'm actually not 100% sure about this (I'll have to ask again). But as best I know, manually-operated guns are still internally plugged in many cases for safety reasons. -MT2008

It depends on what blanks were used. Blank cartridges can be shorter and different shaped to the original calibers, so a weapon made for standard cartridges, even a repeater, may not feed the blank cartridges reliably. Blank rifle (and some pistol cartridges) are made my crimping the mouth of the case. This makes the case much shorter in OAL (Over All Length) than a standard cartridge. The trouble is that the magazines and feed ramps are set up for standard OAL (or SAAMI) so these will have to be altered for reliable operation. Shotgun blanks are probably just a standard shotgun case with a small amount of powder and no wad or shot. The modifications needed would be to adjust the feed mechanism for the blank's lighter weight and different balance. Wraith

Public Enemies film firearms

What happened to all the photos of the screen used firearms in this movie?--AdAstra2009 20:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I had to take them down because certain parties got upset and I feared there might be legal consequences. I can't really say much more than that. It is a shame, because they were awesome pictures, but I do have to take precautions. -MT2008 22:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It's unfortunate, were the parties that got upset the ones who sent the images? --AdAstra2009 00:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the problem. We are just displaying pictures. We're not asking for a price or selling anything. I can never see how photos of certain things be a problem with copyright issues. Is there a way to ask the parties that own the photos to allow us to display them again? Excalibur01 21:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The soap gun

Wasn't this photo of the scene at the Crown Point jail and Dillinger was using a fake gun made out of soap or wood to threaten guards? Cause this was in the 1911 section

I think the real one was made out if wood look like a Colt Detective Special

I heard it was a potato. In Take the Money and Run, Woody Allen uses a gun carved out of soap and blacked with boot polish. It manages to fool the prison guards right up until the point it begins to rain, turning the "gun" into a ball of foam and the prisoner is hauled back inside.

You are somewhat correct. It's unclear how Dillinger got the "gun", but rumor says he carved it out of a washboard and painted it with black shoe polish. During the actual time period though, Harry Pierpont and Charles Makley tried breaking out of prison making 2 guns made from soap and painted with shoe polish, but armed guards shot both of them when they were out in the open.--MarineCorps1 23:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC) it was wooden and he kept it behind everyone before getting a real gun. but being as that it was never found , or even seen after the prison break, we wil never know. simmons 8492

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Supposedlt Dillinger held onto it for awhile after the escape and even posed with it when he visited his family afterwards. I've seen that photo, but I can't tell if it's a wooden or soap gun. --Jcordell 00:50, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Well there's the theory that even though he made the soap gun, he might not have actually used it and guards were paid off so that his escape was possible Excalibur01 02:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

i wouldnt be suprised if that was the case . simmons 8492

Machine Pistol

Can someone show me what a Colt.38 super looks like up close? I need help as the prop gun made by ISS pic was removed.

I'm not sure, but here's a drawing of it. It kinda looks weird to me.

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A drawing of a Colt .38 Super converted into a machine pistol with the Muzzle break, Thompson front pistol grip, and extended magazine. Note how I suck at drawing the front grip.

This is what a machine pistol coverted version of the M1911A1 might look like.

Hope this helps!! - Kenny99 03:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/AO-3F3. html

that has a picture of Dillinger's actual guns.

'colt 38 super' really means 'colt 1911 chambered in 38 super' Externally a gun chambered in 38 super will look like the same model in 45acp. Dillinger's gun is a semicustom gun. Dillinger had a longer barrel added, had an extended magazine, and had the front pistolgrip of a thompson SMG added.

Tell your propmaker to copy the standard 'government' 1911, make a fake extended magazine, make a fake barrel poking out 2 inchs beyond the frame of the gun, and attach a thompson forend pistolgrip. You should be able to collect pictures of the specific parts and he should be able to cobble it together

I recently discovered a more recent photo of Dillinger's Machine Pistol in color with the extended magazine attached! - Kilgore 18:08, 27 July 2010 (UTC) Hmmm...The pic below that's on the main page also isn't an A1 model like you have above. I think maybe the pic you posted Kilgore was the screen used gun in the film. --Predator20 18:34, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

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Note the lack of relief cuts behind the trigger guard and smaller grip safety.

That is indeed the screen used gun in the film, and the same image MT2008 had previously posted and had to remove for legal reasons. The image should be removed from the site for those same reasons still. A damn shame though, it's a perfect picture. : \ - Gunmaster45

I've found another picture of a 1911 machine pistol, but it's a reproduction of the original. I'm not sure if was used in the movie or not. I'll upload it if I can find out if it was used in the movie. - Kilgore 14:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone have any information on who built the machine pistol for the movie? I was just curious about the process of making it. --Caldwellb734 (talk) 00:09, 28 January 2016 (EST)

Purvis' Rifle

Nice thought with the Mannlicher-Schonauer (in fact that probably would have been more appropriate), but the rifle is definately a Mauser. The Mannlicher-Schonauer had the standard Mannlicher split-bridge receiver, whereas that has a solid Mauser action with the bolt handle behind the receiver bridge. The flat "butterknife" bolt handle was a popular feature on German sporting rifles in the early 20th century, and can still be found.

EDIT: This is Nyles by the way. My Afghan net isn't letting me log in today.

Also, I'm pretty sure that after the jail break scene in the beginning, when they hole up at the whorehouse, you see Dillingers right hand man with a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer tucked into his waistband. It's kind of hard to tell on the pirated copy I bought at the KAF market.

I don't know what caliber the Mauser's in, but it's huge. The rounds on his belt are very big, and so is the bore diameter. Plus, I was wrong, that shell isn't big because of motion blur, it's just really big. - Gunmaster45

Well, with that style of rifle you can pretty much guarantee it's going to be in an obsolete metric caliber that was never popular in the states. My money is on 9.3 x 62mm Mauser. - Nyles

for double set triggers. do you have to use both triggers to fire, or you can use one if you don't have time to set the first trigger? Rex095

Pulling the first trigger makes the second trigger lighter. You don't have to pull the first trigger (as the second will still fire with a heavier pull), it is just more useful to do so when you need a hair trigger for an accurate shot. - Gunmaster45

Screencaps

Anybody know how to take screencaps on VLC media player? It's the only DVD player I have on my computer and it won't take the screencaps properly. I'm wondering if anybody knows how to do it.

There is a screencap button on the toolbar. Are you having trouble finding the pics after you take them? You need to go to Tools, then Preferences at the bottom. Click video that is where you set up the directory where the pics go. Also change the pic type to jpeg, png's take up too much room. You can also change the pic name too. For Public Enemies you change the prefix to PE-. Hope that helps.--Predator20 03:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that helped a lot.

Also sign your posts by clicking the signature button on the edit bar.--Oliveira 01:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Moved From Main Page - Dillinger's actual weapons

This is a collection of firearms that were captured from the real Dillinger gang. As you can see the makers of the movie put a lot of these weapons into the movie. Included with the weapons is Dillinger's death mask and the hat he wore when he was killed. Above the hat is the clothes he was wearing when he died including his sunglasses and the cigar he had.

The real Dillinger Gang arsenal.

That's pretty cool. Could someone identify all these guns? -Gunman69 23:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

the .38 super machine pistol

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Another shot of the real Dillinger Gang's arsenal, as seen on the DVD featurette "Criminal Technology".

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Some of the real Dillinger's possessions after he was shot in Chicago include a straw hat, a watch, a cigar, and a Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless chambered in .380 ACP.

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Part of the Barker-Karpis Gang's arsenal, as seen on the DVD featurette "Criminal Technology". Alvin Karpis is featured in the film played by Giovanni Ribisi as a friend and associate of Dillinger's.

Charles Winstead

I found a very interesting document online handwritten by Charles Winstead (the FBI agent played by Stephen Lang in the film who fatally shot Dillinger in 1934) documenting all of his personal firearms. Although the Winchester 10-gauge shown in the film isn't among the inventory, it is still interesting to see what he actually carried. The link is here: [1]. In case the list can't be read clearly, it states that Winstead owned:

• a "silver-plated" Smith & Wesson .38 Special with an engraved frame
• a "Colt .45 automatic" silver-plated Army model with "stag handles"
• two "blue steel" Colt .45 single-action Frontier Model revolvers, one with stag grips, the other with ivory grips
• a .38 WCF Colt Bisley nickel-plated single-action revolver with rubber handles
• a .44-caliber single-shot derringer made by Southern
• a Winchester auto-loading .351 rifle with a rear Lyman peep sight, most likely a Winchester Model 1907

- Speakeasy804 22:17, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Now that is one great website. Thanks for the link. --Jcordell 05:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Organizing firearms by type

I'm just organizing some pages. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. --Jcordell 21:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Possible Error

Just wondering, after watching the movie it seems like their were some thirty round stick magazines as well as twenty round ones for the Thompson. Were thirty round stick magazines available in the 1930s?--MarineCorps1 19:05, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

No, the 30 rounder magazines were invented specifically for the M1A1 Tommy gun during WWII Excalibur01 02:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Thompson Submachine Gun

FYI, the Racine, WI Police Department allowed the film makers to use the actual Thompson they confiscated from him when they arrested him for some scenes. It's on display in the lobby of the Racine Police Department. 65.29.239.251 04:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Interview with Harry Lu

I'm sure this interview is on the DVD, but figured I post it anyway.--Predator20 00:06, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

http://makingof.com/posts/watch/875/the-weapons-of-public-enemies

Firing a .45 One Handed

This isnt just for Public Enemies, but for all Movies, TV, etc. The actors will really be using blanks, but in real life, is it possible to shoot a .45 accurately one handed? --MarineCorps1 21:34, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Didn't the US military teach one-handed shooting with the .45 for decades? --funkychinaman 21:37, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

They taught to use both hands as well as one handed Excalibur01 02:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The 1911 was made to be fired one handed as it was intended for cavalry use. In fact most pistols made before the late 1950s were made to be fired one handed. Using both hands wasn't real big (I mean almost non-existent) until Jack Weaver came about with the Weaver stance and started winning competitions, even after he came around it took a while for 2 handed shooting to catch on.-Ranger01 19:53, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It's more than possible, I in fact recommend practicing it at a range. I don't want to sound insane but if you have to use your weapon to protect yourself then the situation you would be in would already unpredictable, better to be prepared. I also find that it's good practice for keeping your hand steady. One thing I did consider was how accurately Pervis was, hitting all 7-8 shots, one handed with a full weight .45, on a moving target, My immediate thought was that would be very impressive. But it did follow a scene were he fired his Thompson one handed, so it's clear he has the forearms of god. --Jackie.45Cal 13:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC

Do you think thats possible, to fire a thompson full auto one handed accurately? --MarineCorps1 22:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Oddly enough, I do. The Thompson is a pretty heavy SMG, its weight would help negate recoil. So fired in short bursts/ semi auto it is possible. It is also possible to fire a Thompson from the chin/ forehead/ groin/ etc (not that I'd try it haha).-Ranger01 00:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Dillinger Derringer

Interesting tidbit - the most recent issue of Man At Arms magazine has an auction listing for a 2nd Model Remington Derringer that Dillinger was carrying in a sock when arrested in Tucson in 1934. Apparently it's very well-documented with proven provenence. - Nyles

.38 Super Colt 1911

The page states that there are currently no Colts 1911 in .38 Super. This is not the case anymore as USFA is accepting pre-orders for modern made replicas of the .38 Super Colt.

[http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/super-38.asp ]

PS: Yes, I know that the guns in the movie were all .45 ACP.

The page actually states that there are no blank converted .38 Super pistols in movie armories, not that they don't exist at all anymore. But thanks for the link, those wouldn't be a bad gun to own. - Gunmaster45

9mm blanks will suffice. No reason to have 1911s in that cartridge when most cinema goers will assume they are in .45ACP unless told otherwise. .38 Super is only more common in IPSC competition and where there are restrictions in ownership of military cartridges such as South and Central America. Wraith

.38 Super is also gaining popularity in Australia due to their restrictions on calibres larger than .38/9mm. --Maxman (talk) 16:58, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

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Factory Full Auto Conversion

Pretty cool don't you think?--Jcordell (talk) 09:22, 13 December 2012 (EST)

Colt Model 1903 Hammerless

Could this be a Colt Model 1908 Hammerless? The guns are identical except for caliber and Dillinger was carrying a .380 when he was killed. I don't see any evidence to suggest it's not a 1908.--Pølaris 18:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Are there any markings visible that would indicate its chambering? --Maxman (talk) 03:17, 21 July 2015 (EDT)

Public Enemies

Most of the firearms came out of Gibbons Entertainment Armory,LLC. I prepped a lot of the firearms that went out on the film. Great pic's of the sling adaptors for the Tommy guns I machined while at Gibbons. I also fashioned the Tomy Gun shoulder rigs. I do not know if they were modified out on set. I also machined the replica Tear Gas cannisters.

Tom Bender

Winchester Model 1907

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Actual Hero Winchester 1907. Courtesy of NRA National Firearms Museum

"Wooden Gun"

John Dillinger (Johnny Depp) crafts himself a "Wooden Gun" that he uses to break out of Crown Point jail before several guards realize it was fake. It has been confirmed that the real Dillinger did escape using this method, although the number of guards he took hostage likely differs from the number seen in the movie. Trivia: Two of Dillinger's first accomplices, Pete Pierpont and Charles Makley, attempted to copy Dillinger's escape method in September 1934 by carving fake guns from bars of soap and painting them black. Their attempt failed with Makley being killed and Pierpont receiving the electric chair a few weeks after the attempted escape.

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The real Dillinger's "wooden gun".

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Dillinger thrusts his "wooden gun" into trustee Sam Cahoon.

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Dillinger "aims" at a door inside Crown Point jail.

Manhattan Melodrama

Should we include captures of the gun Clark Gable uses in Manhattan Melodrama? --Maxman (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2015 (EDT)