Talk:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Knives

Main Knife

This is main melee knife used in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. The knife attack always kills an enemy in one slash or stab. In Old School multiplayer matches, however, two knife attacks are required to kill an enemy player at full health. This two-hit-kill knifing also applies when double health is applied on Private Matches. It is used by all the factions and moves very fast.

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The main Knife In-Game

Discussion

Ah, goddamnit. I wanted to do this. Well, maybe i can make it up to IMFDB standards sometime, just DON'T do Half-Life 2. - Flying Dane

MP5

This is not an MP5A3/SD as previously suggested, as it has a flat sided receiver with pictogram markings instead of the S-E-F markings on the A3.

Wrong, It's an MP5N/SDN, it doesn't have the 4th selector option.

Please, keep the commentary on the discussion page. At any rate, I added a capture with a clearer view of the selector and its lack of a fourth position. Spartan198 20:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Screenshots

I have a lot of shots for the page and will upload them tommorow. -GM

I've got a crapload of good real pictures for a lot of the guns, but I don't have any clue as to how to upload them, so, for anyone that can, email me at r1c0ch37@gmail.com

You know what would have been better?

I kinda wished the creators of this game made more guns for us to use. There are so many modern firearms at least they could put in the multiplayer. Like the G36 carrying handle instead of the rail, H&K machineguns, H&K grenade launchers, a full auto M16 in the multiplayer, the option to put every accessory on your primary, like sights, suppressor, and grenade launcher all in one instead of just pick only one. I know they did that for balance, but screw balance. Let's see, what else? The UMP, Mac-10, Glocks (specificly the Glock 18), Drum magazines, AUG, Tavor, SA80/L85A1, L96A1, MP7A1. I know I'm starting to sound like I'm turning the gun choices of COD4 into Rainbow Six, but that's why I like that game a lot because it has SO MANY GUNS to pick from and the option of putting whatever you want. I want the ability to change firing modes, to add and take off suppressors. Excalibur01 20:34, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention having the actual front sight posts still present on optic-equipped M16s and M4s would have been nice. I realize they probably removed it to give better visibility, but still. Spartan198 22:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

Firing selectors would have been nice. Full auto or nothing is kind of lame. - Gunmaster45

According to gamers, the military doesn't use semi-automatic (sarcasm). Spartan198 09:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

Yet it's all modeled on semi. Or safe.-protoAuthor 01:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Well screw hardcore gamers. I have most of the Tom Clancy games and those you can select weapons to semi and auto and even some have bursts modeExcalibur01 01:06,

3 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree completely with you. In most situations in-game, I seemingly always find myself tapping the trigger for single shots instead of firing bursts. Spartan198 07:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

i would have liked to have seen the L96A1 and or the AW50F, as these would have been awesome in cod, also the glock 18, SR-25, and i would have liked to do my own customising of weapons, like on the M16 on the modified version you lose the front sights which just look wrong.

Is ok to put pics on this from other websites. User:Drjuki

I want a goddamm regular FN FAL and a IMI Galil AR with the wood hand guards. They would be perfect in the hands of terrorists in the game. They already have the G3 why not a FN FAL?Oliveira 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

i would have liked to customised the weapons myself

In my opinion the worst choice of the Infinity Ward was the selection of the MP-44 as "final unlock": is older than the AK-47 and cannot be modified, excepted the selection of the camouiflage painting. Why call the game "Modern Warfare" if the (teorically) ultimate gun is also the oldest??? Lone Soldier 03-12-2009

I believe the mp44 aka sturm was put in there as an Easter Egg of sorts since this was the first Call of Duty to date that wasnt about WW2.

Desert Eagle

what finishes do the Desert Eagles have in the game? IMI lists several variants http://www.magnumresearch.com/CustomFinishes.asp

Just stainless steel, I think. But don't quote me. I never use it. Spartan198 07:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198 the game has chrome and titanium gold.

Stainless steel, as well as gold once you reach level 55.

The Desert Eagles don't come in stainless steel. It would be too goddamn shiny. It uses a chrome-plating finish. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 06:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

P90 comments.

whoever keeps deleting my edits bugger off, this gun is awesome it is easy to aim and has awesome stopping power, and to say it is weak and inaccurate is just plain rubbish, u would have to be a fool to fail to kill an oppo with this gun

Have at it, but remember - this is the last time I play nice. --Clutch 19:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

this weapon is the fantastic it is very easy to aim it has good stopping power and at close range it is downright lethal

Can't we all play nice?!?! User:Drjuki

I stopped playing COD4 because of peoples bickering "Thats a noob gun" "you're camping" "that perk sucks"

There is a crowd who all believe what perks everyoe should have and what weapons, Id love to see a game by their rules, it would be boring. So waiting a few minuites behid a corner is camping, and i'm kicked for it, but they can sit in a building with a siper level the whole match? Tehn there is the p90 debate. Let people who like it use it, do't start telling them there a noob and being unfair.

Come on clutch! Don't be so evil on the kid.Oliveira 18:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Any weapon or perk combination you use to kill an opposing player is deemed "noobish". Anymore I just laugh their rants off and go on with the game. Spartan198 20:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

I think it's sad people (including myself) stop playing the very good multiplayer because of the other players who just ruin it with loud, abusive talking, silly arguments about trivial matters, and generally making it uncomfortable. User:Mcguinness

the noobish comment is spot on as if u use something that the other gamers dont like noobish sod that i kill the lot of em, and the silly arguements comment is also right it gets down right annoying

No Browning M2?

Why is there no Browning on the page? It was clearly seen in-game.

umm i dont think glitching outside of the map counts unles your counting the one on the M1 ambrams -scarecrow

As long as it's in the game, it counts to be in the article. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 06:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Red Dot Sight

The red dot sight on the M4 SOPMOD is a Sure Shot Reflex Sight, not a C-More. [[1]] Spartan198 07:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

The 1911 Griggs used looks more like a Kimber TLE stainless

About the Springfield 1911 in the game I also think it is a Springfield opposed to a Kimber Warrior because I have one and the grip is a lighter color plus it has a different magazine.

umm its a stainless (silver colour) 1911 isnt it? where does it say on the page its a kimber? -scarecrow

Excerpt from Remington 700P

• "Oddly, the M40A3 also seen in game is very much the same weapon, although in the game they have slightly different attributes."

I have to agree and disagree with this statement, as they can't be classified "as the same weapon", since the M40A3 has its own model number, designation, and role in the Marine Corps; and was modified from the R700P, one change being the finely rifled heavy barrel. However, both rifles, as mentioned before, are made from the Remington 700 model. I think this should be clarified a bit more clearly. Any thoughts? --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 12:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Just quick, is the 700p the ltr model or not? Can you tell? User:Mcguinness

Bluey?

I noticed that some M4's and M16's have "Bluey" on the side. Is there a reason for this? Or just something the designers put in?

• I think it's "Blue 4," possibly to identify who the rifle belongs to in the squad. Vangelis 11:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

yea it says blue 4 on both a M4 and M16 -scarecrow

M4/M16

I added a little more information about how the gas block removal on an M4/M16 would effect the firearm. It is true that is the gas block is removed that the next round will not chamber automatically. the bolt would have to be racked to load a new round. I just thought I'd add that information to the page. It can be removed if desired. ShaDow XPS

INCORRECT ^

Though you cannot see it, most likely the standard front sight gas block has been replaced whit anyone of the readily available low-profile gas blocks and most likely covered by the rail system or fore-grip.

Thank you...some one realized that it was still there. please remove the text stating it is not there from the main page -supertoaster

M4 Barrel

If anyone's still looking at this page, does it look to you like the M4 has a 16" barrel? It does to me. A perfectly straight 16" barrel (no M203 cuts) and the old style M4 stock. I believe that makes it exactly the same as the C8, which was mentioned as being what the SAS really use, so maybe the M4 in this game is really a C8. If anyone can counter this feel free.

You're right about the barrel, I think, but the C8 has a 14.5", not a 16". Furthermore, if you look at the rifle without any optics, it has an A2 style rear sight, while the C8's is A1 style.

The barrel looks longer because the front sight/gas block is removed when equipped with optics. If you take into account the length of the front sight, the barrel evens out at around 14.5 inches. The "standard" C8 has a 14.5 inch A1 profile barrel, but the C8FTHB (the version used by SAS under the designation L119A1) has a 16.1 inch barrel that bulges out where the M203 step is on an M4 barrel. Spartan198 18:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The L119A1's the SFW, not the FTHB. Although in practice there's probably not much difference. The Wierd It 20:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot about the front sight being removed. Since you never have a carry handle in the SAS missions I wasn't counting that, and I was thinking SFW when I said C8.

Looks like the FTHB to me. L119A1 - [2] C8FTHB - [3] Spartan198 00:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The only difference is that the SFW has a stronger front sight to use the HK AG-C/L17A1 grenade launcher.The Wierd It 09:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Why would a stronger front sight be needed when the AG-C is RIS-mounted? Spartan198 18:44, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The 1911 in-game

The article is full of incorrect information. The MEU (SOC) pistol does have novak sights and a match grade trigger nowadays, and a Springfield Loaded model has front cocking serrations which the 1911 ingame does not. I don't see how it's anymore a Springfield Loaded than the other models the article lists it as not being. It seems obvious it's not any specific model of a 1911 but I'd say it's closer to the MEU (SOC) pistol than anything else. The MEU (SOC) pistol even uses desert tan gunner grips now that look just like the ones in the game.

Not that I disagree that the Springfield Armory Professional 1911 is the 1911 model in-game, but I think that there is a possibility that it might be a Nighthawk Custom Enforcer Series or GRP 1911. Why? Because the armed forces would likely use higher-ended companies like Nighthawk. Anyway, just a possibility. Any thoughts?

LINKS:

• http://www.nighthawktactical.com/The_Enforcer.html

• http://www.nighthawktactical.com/GRP.html

--User:Blemo 22:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a negative. The Nighthawk Enforcer is basically a Kimber Warrior without the rail, and the rail wasn't the only thing that made the Kimber Warrior a misidentification. The Novak sights are different, and it has a flat top strap across the slide. As far as the military using "higher end companies" They usually buy what's most cost effective and not necessarily best quality, and since Nighthawk Custom makes.... custom firearms, I doubt they'd have a contract that would be cheap, or at least cheaper than competitors. It's still a Professional. --Yournamehere 02:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I see. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

It definitly has those grips though, that was the first thing I noticed. It might not be an Enforcer, but it has the same grips. Here (in tan):

link: http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/detail.aspx?ID=133#

Oh and thanks Blemo for bringing this up anyway because I've been trying to put together an airsoft replica of this 1911 for a while, and now I've finally got those damn grips, couldn't find 'em anywhere. I also put together the M4 SOPMOD the S.A.S. use in game as my primary, which makes me Captain Price :D

EDIT: You guys think it could be this one, a Springfield Armory Loaded? Just add the grips I linked above, I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same otherwise.

http://www.bullshooterssupply.com/store/images/springfield_armory_1911_a1_px9109lp.jpg

EDIT 2: I used my not so amazing MS Paint skills to put this together for you guys (and me)

File:CaptainPriceSALoaded.JPG

Alex T Snow 06:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It could be a customized Colt since the front sight does not seem to dovetailed into the slide--Jan 22:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the MS Paint image, Alex. =] Sadly, I'd hate to burst your bubble and say that the ejection port should not be as "shiny" as seen in this image. Plus, the coloration of the slide and frame should be darker. (although it may just be the lighting). --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 06:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I know, but the barrel, bushing, and trigger are some kind of "silver", whether it be stainless, chrome, nickel-plated, though I'd say stainless the point is those parts are "silver" Alex T Snow 22:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

although more likely for Special Ops to be using Nighthawk's i dont think the designers at infinity ward no what they are. and on the topic of it possibly being an Enforcer model. All Nighthawks have Novak Sights besides the Dominator. and the Grips are easily replacable. so it could be any model from the GRP to the Enforcer to the Talon. Dirtdiver6421 23:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Desert Eagles hammer down?

Isn't the Desert Eagles hammer incorrectly down?

Yes but so is the 1911's, and the rest once they've been fired. In the Modern Warfare universe all guns are double action only I guess. Alex T Snow 06:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

M4 In-Game For Airsofters (Or Real Steel Guys Too I Guess)

As with I'm sure a number of other people on this site, I airsoft. =D I've been working on a Captain Price kit for a little while, who, as you know, uses an M4 SOPMOD/Grenadier. The reason he uses both is because they're the same gun with and without the suppressor, for the sneaky and not sneaky parts. (And different optics, but his gun is probably supposed to have the same optics the whole time, I'd bet IW didn't want to make a different gun just for him, as most people wouldn't notice.) Because finding EVERYTHING to put together his M4 was a big pain, I'm going to put a list of parts here for anyone wanting to make the M4 and its versions in-game. This would also work for a real one too I would think, at least mostly. This is assuming the base gun is a normal, generic M4A1.

M4A1 "multiplayer":

• 16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
• Old style stock
• RAS
• Vertical foregrip

(Please note this one can't be made using an electric airsoft M4, well, it can, but there'll be nowhere to put a battery. You will need a gas airsoft one or a real steel one.)

M4A1 "normal":

• 16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
• Old style stock
• RAS
• Vertical foregrip
• PEQ-2 (on the front left)
• Tasco red dot scope
• The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 Suppressed:

• Same as the M4A1 "normal" except with a suppressor (go figure)

M4A1 Grenadier:

• 16" HBAR (no grooves) barrel
• Old style stock
• RAS
• M203 (9" rail mounted version)
• M203 leaf sight (on the front top)
• PEQ-2 (on the front left)
• EOTech 552 holosight
• The smallest gas block you can find

M4A1 SOPMOD:

• Same as the M4 Grenadier except with a suppressor, and a Tasco QP22 reflex sight replacing the EOTech 552

For Captain Price's M4 I'm combining the Grenadier and SOPMOD by having a suppressor and an EOTech 552, seems like the easiest way to solve the problem.

I hope this list helps whoever needs it. :) Alex T Snow 08:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The barrel on the M4 is 14.5". The missing FSP just makes it look longer. Spartan198 05:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

As much as everyone seems to think that, try putting a piece of paper up to your screen with the edge down the centre of the barrel of a 14.5" M4, a real one would be good. Mark off the back of the front sight/front of the RAS/Handguard, and, without moving it, mark where the flash hider starts. This distance will be the same as the length of the RAS/Handguard. Do the same thing to the COD4 M4 Info Picture and you'll find the barrel's longer. :) Alex T Snow 12:42, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

AKS-74

Misinformation - as it is not portrayed in game. Removing

How? It's pointed out that it is not in game and only on the poster. We have the Glock 17 on the Overkill and Last Stand perks, and the PPSh-41 that the statues hold, this isn't any different. Alex T Snow 22:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

G3A4

Someone commented that this was an HK91 due to the lack of a paddle release on the magazine. Here's a picture of a player reloading it:

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I don't see much here so what do you guys think? - Kenny99 16:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Don't see one, look at the create a class picture, no paddle release there either. --FIVETWOSEVEN 00:50, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Well the reload animation acts like it DOES have a paddle release, so it supposed to be a G3A4 but the animation forgot about it, just like the trigger and guard for the M203 Excalibur01 03:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Seems like a HK91 to me.--FIVETWOSEVEN 15:03, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

--Milkovich 20:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I saw that it is a HK91 even without looking at Milkovich's proof image. Missing paddle release can be seen on the image with tha reload on the page. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 02:01, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

The Javelin sight

I posted this on the CoD wiki initially, but only on a talk page since they don't feature RL weapon info. When you're looking through the Javelin's sight, the display behaves...oddly. The light on at the bottom is supposed to be red and indicates "missile BIT failure," according to the field manual. The red CLU BIT failure light comes on when it's locking on, and the amber "missile not ready" flashes just before you fire. I'm not sure if this is just normal behaviour or the FM on GlobalSecurity is wrong (I'd defer to anyone who's actually used one of these things for that) or if they just had lights come on at random for visual appeal. Vangelis 20:24, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

The M4A1

From Hitman: Contracts Talk page: "HOW the hell can the M4 in COD4:MW be an M4 if it has a 16" non-stepped barrel? I say that is an AR-15A3 with a full auto lower, if something like that can exist" (Stated by bozitojugg3rn4ut)

Does anyone else agree? I do. - Mr. Wolf 17:34, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

I'm thinking the AR-15A3 is the most likely, but at any rate, here are the differences between the COD4 M4A1 a real M4A1. 16" heavy barrel (non-stepped), M16A1 flash hider, original M4 stock, M16A1 pistol grip (in 3rd person, can't see it in 1st), and a KAC RIS. Also, being a civilian gun could explain why the selector is set to semi. Alex T Snow 20:10, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

But the M4A1 in MW2 and MW3 have their selector switches set to semi too. :\ - Mr. Wolf 22:02, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Yeah... but there were so many other things in those games I just call that lazy. AUG with no rear sight... Alex T Snow 23:41, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Which game? - Mr. Wolf 18:12, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

MW2's AUG has no rear sight, an aftermarket rail-mounted front sight, and a 30 round magazine that holds 42 rounds. Alex T Snow 20:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Aw, okay. Never played MW2 so I wouldn't know. - Mr. Wolf 20:42, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Don't, it will make you depressed :/ Alex T Snow 21:14, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Never planed too. :) - Mr. Wolf 22:29, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

This site's MW2 page has pics, they're enough Alex T Snow 00:13, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

• Looks like this thread died... Bye Bye Thread. (P.S.: I still say that let's change it to AR-15A3. Will do it tomorrow if no one comes up with a good reason not to.) - bozitojugg3rn4ut 15:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

although not a solid reason i would just keep it. its not a big deal but for any onlookers there not going to understand it Dirtdiver6421 20:11, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Or, they could learn what an AR-15A3 is :) Alex T Snow 20:38, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

So am I the only one willing to write the barrel off as a modelling error and the rest as being due to the low-polygon third person model? The Wierd It 09:46, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

If a modelling error makes one gun into another, then we cover it as the one the error made it into. Evil Tim 10:21, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Well, I've always insisted that the M4 in-game IS an M4 rather any other M16-based weapon, but I guess I was wrong and looking on the small details, it's a civilian AR-15A3. BTW, if talking about accuracies, have you noticed that the M203 mounted on the, eventually AR-15A3 :P, is actually the A2 version used for the M16A4, rather the A1? (noticed by the rail). I guess it ought be changed too :) --RaNgeR 10:49, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Although if it was a 14-inch barrel I could almost argue it's a C8A1 fitted with an M4 carry handle. The Wierd It 11:39, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

Correction; C8A2 with M4A1 carry handle and M16A1 pistol grip; the A1 doesn't have the heavy barrel. The Wierd It 12:58, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

If you measure the length of the rail system, and then the length of the barrel in front of the front sight of this "M4", you can tell for sure it has a 16 inch barrel. I'm still thinking it's supposed to be the C8SFW, the barrel's straight instead of stepped, but still 16 inches, one of the few with a standard 16 inch barrel. And 90% of the time you see a picture of the SFW, it has a KAC RIS. Oh, and it IS what the SAS use in real life as well, makes it more likely. Wow, this has got the be one of the hardest guns to identify... Alex T Snow 18:43, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

I really think you are giving the devs too much credit here with the appropriateness of the C8SFW for the SAS, especially as they call it an M4. There are quite a few Colt variants that have a 16" barrel as standard, the carbine sporter and LE variants. These would also be much more prevalent in the US for the developers to get a look at to base their weapon off of. The only distinguishing features of the C8SFW is the profile of the barrel and rupper pad on the butt, both of which are absent from this weapon. --commando552 19:21, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

You're forgetting the original style M4 stock, that's pretty important. Alex T Snow 20:49, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

That is literally a 2 second job to change, and as I said before the SFW has a chunky rubber pad on the butt, which the game gun doesn't. Unlike the gun we have pictured for the site, AR15A3s can also have the fiberlite stock [4]. All of this is assuming it is a Colt rifle at all, for example it is a match for a Fulton Armory Classic M4, but that really is opening up a can of worms for something that probably only has a 16" barrel due to poor scaling of the 3rd person model. --commando552 05:13, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

I see your point, but a rubber stock pad is as much a part of the gun as rail mounted optics, it's really not. Let's just go with the AR-15A3. The 16" straight barrel and old style stock are the most notable features, and it has both. Alex T Snow 05:36, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

Images

I'm gonna bump the image sizes up to 600px, is that okay? - Mr. Wolf 22:03, 7 November 2011 (CST)

Sounds fine to me :) Alex T Snow 23:05, 7 November 2011 (CST)

Inaccurate Recoil Info

In the HK91 (G3) section the one photo says something along the lines that: Although firing a larger cartridge than the AK-47, the G3 is inaccurately depicted as having less recoil than the AK. The game is actually relatively correct that the G3 has less recoil than the AK, because the AK is a 6-7lb rifle firing full auto, and the G3 is a 10-12lb semi-automatic battle rifle firing a caliber (7.62x51 NATO) that really isn't that much more severe than the AK (7.62x39 Russian). --Ranger12 11:18, 8 November 2011 (CST)

Sounds right to me Alex T Snow 16:22, 8 November 2011 (CST)

Actually AKs usually weigh 8 lbs (stamped steel) or 10 lbs (milled steel), G3s weigh 9 lbs (G3A3) or 10 lbs (G3A4), plus real G3s are semi & full-auto (the one in-game is a HK91) and most people say it has a good kick like any other 7.62 NATO rifle. - Mr. Wolf 17:05, 8 November 2011 (CST)

A G3 still has more recoil than an AK-47. Although the G3A4 is heavier (only by one or two hundred grams when both are fully loaded thanks to the "sturdy" AK magazine), the NATO round has quite a bit more energy than the 7.62x39. Did a (very) quick calculation and came out a loaded G3 having approximately double the recoil kinetic energy of a loaded AK-47. --commando552 17:17, 8 November 2011 (CST)

Mmmmm sorry it really doesn't. I have a Saiga .308, which in the way I have it configured, weighs 10lbs loaded. The Saiga 7.62x39, which weighs 7lbs loaded, recoils as much as or more than the .308. Also, there are other factors being left out here. For one, the G3 is roller delayed recoil operated, which soaks up about 80% of the recoil alone. The AK is gas piston operated which soaks up only about 60% of the recoil. Another factor is the bullet itself. .308 tends to just "shove" your shoulder, whereas a 7.62x39 delivers a quick punch. (If you have shot these calibers you know exactly what I'm talking about). Lastly, a G3 has an 18" barrel, which offers more velocity to the .308 cartridge than the 16" barrel does to the 7.62x39, therefore calculations on velocity/energy vs recoil won't be accurate because it isn't a direct comparison. (you would need to compare 16" to 16" barrels, and as a rule of thumb, every inch different from the published velocity of a certain ammo adds or subtracts 50 fps for every inch added or removed). --Ranger12 18:28, 8 November 2011 (CST)

The only factors I took into account were the muzzle velocity of the particular firearms, the weight of the bullet, the weight of the gun, and Newton's third law. In order for the world not the fall apart, the G3 definitely recoils with more energy than an AK-47. The exact manner in which it transfers this energy is a different matter. I can't say definitely as haven't shot them back to back, but I would agree that a G3 is more comfortable than an AK-47, but if you were to lay them both on a frictionless table and pull the trigger, the G3 would slide backwards faster than an AK-47. I have also shot a G3 full auto, and it is pretty damn hard to stay on target. --commando552 19:13, 8 November 2011 (CST)

Theoretically, you would be right. However the roller delayed blowback system significantly slows down the cycling of the gun and requires much of the recoil to operate the bolt, thereby reducing felt recoil. Technically, yes the G3 does have more recoil, but because of the operating system, you don't feel it nearly as much as on an AK. Don't get me wrong, it's one heck of a gun to control, however because of the type of action, the type of caliber, rounds per minute, and so on, the recoil on a full auto AK will be much worse than a semi-auto G3. Are we all cleared up? Thanks --Ranger12 19:46, 8 November 2011 (CST)

Maybe recoil is the wrong word here, the MP5 (in-game at least) has tons, but that's not what we mean. What we're talking about is muzzle climb, or vertical recoil, not factoring recoil back into your shoulder, because you don't really see that in a game. Alex T Snow 19:48, 8 November 2011 (CST)

I still think the statement should be deleted because it obviously isn't true. Alex, I'm pretty sure it's safe to call muzzle climb "recoil" because in the game, that's what recoil is depicted as. If we want to switch out everything we talked about to muzzle climb, well it still would be wrong. In game, it's the same thing. --Ranger12 19:58, 8 November 2011 (CST)

To be honest I haven't played the original Modern warfare, so have just looked up some videos of the G3 firing and it has ridiculously low recoil, its like a .22LR. Even if you click the mouse so fast it replicates full auto, there is zero muzzle climb. In real life, even if we are just talking about muzzle climb, in my experiencing a G3 firing on full auto has a lot more climb than an AK-47 firing on full auto. As for the operating systems absorbing recoil, I don't know where you are getting numbers like 80% from (so you think a G3 has 20% the recoil of a bolt action 7.62?) but no operating system can get rid of recoil energy (with the exception of turning negligible amounts of it into sound and heat) it will just change the way it is distributed over time. The bolt on an AK-47 is heavier due to the piston being attached, which meant that it might have a harder "kick" within the recoil when the bolt hits the rear, but the G3 has a possibly softer but much more sustained push, which will typically cause more muzzle climb. An analogy would be that you can push someone and punch someone with the same amount of energy, and they will be knocked over by the push but the punch will hurt more. I don't see anything untrue about the statement as it stands, but if it bothers you, get rid of the reference to the AK as it is unnecessary, and just change it to saying that the G3 has much lower recoil than it should creating zero muzzle climb even with rapid fire. --commando552 06:31, 9 November 2011 (CST)

I totally get what your saying. Those numbers I got are approximations from strictly my observations only. I own AK's and have shot CETME's along with dozens of other firearms, sometimes back to back. In full auto, yes. I 100% agree with your statement (although it would probably be considerably less of you were shooting prone or from a bipod). As for shooting it out of a bolt action, yes, shooting .308 out of a bolt action is at least 2x as hard on your shoulder than if you shot it out of a semi-auto. It may not be 80%, but you have to remember the other factors than just the operating system.

I also agree that the depicted recoil may be less than it should be, however, given weight, operating system, caliber, caliber gunpowder burn type (pretty technical but it plays in), gun weight distribution, etc. its pretty safe to say that the semi auto G3 will have less recoil than the full auto AK. Maybe not as less recoil as depicted, but less recoil nonetheless. --Ranger12 07:42, 9 November 2011 (CST)

I think the difference is that I'm comparing a full auto G3 to a full auto AK-47, whereas you are talking about a semi auto G3. I don't think this is a fair comparison though (which is suppose is a reason to get rid of or change the phrase in question, not because it is false but because it isn't a fair comparison), as any full auto rifle would have more perceived recoil and muzzle climb than a semi auto. A better comparison would be for a single shot from either gun, and in my opinion is that you would definitely feel more recoil from a single shot from a G3 as opposed to an AK-47. --commando552 09:51, 9 November 2011 (CST)

In short, I'll agree with that. There are other things to be factored in and bla bla bla, but in short, you've got it. Glad we could fix this. --Ranger12 10:50, 9 November 2011 (CST)

Revising the page

Can I be the one to get the screen shots, I want one less page afflicted with your (Evil Tim) obsession with the number 400. It may take me a while (need to get a new copy of the game (didn't own an actual copy) and I will be addicted to Skyrim and BF3 on top of that), hope you can wait Tim and ignore this page like how I ignore your pages (jk! >:P). I'm a merican, I do not like your 400px weapon images of "order" and you will never understand my "disorder", because you're not an operator, you wouldn't understand.
- Mr. Wolf 01:02, 26 November 2011 (CST)

Well, look at this page now and you can see a demonstration of different image sizes making things look messy. Evil Tim 03:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

I'm not talking about the caps, screen caps should be 600/500px, I'm talking weapon images. - Mr. Wolf 21:46, 26 November 2011 (CST)

No, I mean the page is an excellent large-scale demonstration of how messy it looks when there's no standard image size. Incidentally, the way I took my caps for MW3 was to get it on Steam (which has a built in screencapping function by pressing F12) and then use Setpoint to stick F12 on one of my spare mouse buttons. I currently have a Steam copy of MW since I "pre-ordered" MW3 (by thirty minutes, and 6 hours after it was released in stores here) so I might have a head start :D Evil Tim 02:41, 27 November 2011 (CST)

Well, the only thing that needs to be replaced are the weapons screenshots. - Kenny99 11:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

Yeah, the only thing that needs to be changed is basically the entire page. I can't believe we still have Gamespot and IGN watermarks and a picture of someone's TV screen for the Desert Eagle. Also, Kenny, the images you're uploading are nice, but gameplay images are better than model viewer images. Let's try and build this page out of images of what the game looks like while someone's actually playing it. EDIT: There, that's a few uploaded just as a demonstration. Evil Tim 11:53, 27 November 2011 (CST)

Just a note, you're going to have to be quick with this, this page is so incredibly horrible I'm fighting the urge to overhaul it immediately. Evil Tim 12:45, 27 November 2011 (CST)

I won't mess with it while you guys are changing it, but seriously, it's MacTavish. Mac. Not Mc. He is Scottish after all. Alex T Snow 17:33, 27 November 2011 (CST)

Must admit I hadn't checked the spelling. Nevermind, the series makes it clear the entire population of the British Isles are actually Scottish so maybe Soap is one of the English kind of Scottish. Evil Tim 21:07, 27 November 2011 (CST)

Mac as opposed the Mc has nothing to do with whether he is Scottish or not. The voice actor is Scottish and his name is McKidd. Mc is just an abbreviation of Mac (used to be written as M'c) and is a personal preference thing. The thing about Mac being Scottish and Mc being Irish is a myth, you find both forms in both places. --commando552 03:46, 28 November 2011 (CST)

Good to know, I didn't mean to generalize. :/ Well, there's Soap and MacMillan who are Scottish, but Price, Gaz/Ghost/Wallcroft, and most of the other SAS members in this and MW3 are English if I remember correctly. Alex T Snow 13:46, 28 November 2011 (CST)

I've been told that in real life there are proportionally more Scots in the SAS than there should be. If you live in a country where the thistles are waist high and nobody's invented trousers, you're going to toughen up a bit I suppose. --commando552 15:54, 28 November 2011 (CST)

Hahahahaha very true :) Alex T Snow 18:20, 28 November 2011 (CST)

I would know, I have Scottish ancestry. :D - Mr. Wolf 19:12, 28 November 2011 (CST)

Cool :) Alex T Snow 01:07, 29 November 2011 (CST)

Not an AK-47

The game gun is not based on an AK-47 as it has a stamped upper and lower receiver. However it lacks the AKM dimple, so my guess would be that it is actually based on a WASR-10. The rivets are in slightly the wrong place though, and it has a random plate stuck on the side behind the handguard so might be something else, but at the very least I think it should be labelled as an AKM variant. --commando552 13:00, 29 November 2011 (CST)

You know these guys, it's probably based on some Airsoft hybrid like the "AK-74U" was. Evil Tim 13:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed as well that it has the AK-47 type front sight, so it is either based on something obscure, a custom, airsoft, or imagination. --commando552 13:05, 29 November 2011 (CST)

I think "most likely based on an Airsoft gun" is probably the best bet for the article. We know they do that, and it's vastly more likely than that they picked an obscure AK variant. Evil Tim 13:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

I agree. Saying most likely based on an airsoft gun is best, if only to avoid confusing everybody :/ Alex T Snow 16:07, 29 November 2011 (CST)

Price is Price's grandson

While I agree it was most likely a joke at first, as MW Price became such an important character and so well liked they must've felt they had to clear this up and someone from IW (from the model department no less) said that he is his grandson. Alex T Snow 01:56, 15 December 2011 (CST)

It's never officially stated in the games themselves if they're even related, just an informal interview. Doesn't really dignify including it. Evil Tim 02:46, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Okay :/ Alex T Snow 09:38, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Plus we know from Price surviving being shot in the head, Macmillan surviving a helicopter falling on him, Zakhaev being fine after having his arm blown off in the middle of nowhere, Petrenko surviving due to being handed a Russian flag and Ghost TOTALLY NOT BEING GAZ that death in the CoD universe works on the honour system. Evil Tim 17:16, 15 December 2011 (CST)

When'd he get shot in the head? The Wierd It 17:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Fairly sure that was where Zakaev shot him at the end of 4. Evil Tim 19:13, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Nope, he shoots another similarly dressed guy in the head, Price is the one that slides the pistol over after this point. Price's fate is initially ambiguous, as you see a Russian soldier attempting CPR. --commando552 19:20, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Yeah, that was Gaz that Zhakaev shot in the head, not Price. Also, not trying to ignite an argument about it, but having the same voice actor doesn't make Gaz and Ghost the same person. Going by that logic, Naomi Hunter and Emma Emmerich from the MGS franchise must be the same person because both were voiced by Jennifer Hale, and Resident Evil's Leon S. Kennedy and Specter the SEAL from the SOCOM games must be the same person because both were voiced by Paul Mercier. Spartan198 19:24, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Well sure, but neither of those died only to be replaced by a character called ghost wearing a skull mask he never takes off. It's pretty obviously supposed to be a joke rather than him actually being undead Gaz, but still. Evil Tim 19:50, 15 December 2011 (CST)

Undead Gaz sounds like something Treyarch would try. Anyway, I read the Ghost comic book series, and he has his own backstory. It's just weird they'd bring in Craig Fairbrass to do the role again, he has such a distinctive voice. --Funkychinaman 22:21, 15 December 2011 (CST)

He's also in MW3, voicing Wallcroft, who was in this :) Alex T Snow 01:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

C8 Link Help :(

I don't know how to link things to places part way down pages, so could someone fix the red C8 link in the AR-15A3 section? Alex T Snow 02:57, 9 February 2012 (CST)

The correct markup is PAGENAME#SECTIONNAME Evil Tim 06:28, 9 February 2012 (CST)

Thanks :) Alex T Snow 18:41, 9 February 2012 (CST)