Talk:Stargate SG-1: Difference between revisions
Talk:Stargate SG-1: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:Stargate SG-1: Difference between revisions
: Added the Dragunov. I couldn't spot the UZI, though. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 10:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
: Added the Dragunov. I couldn't spot the UZI, though. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 10:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:: It's been bugging me for weeks, but I finnaly remembered where I had seen an UZI on SG1. Micro-UZIs were used twice in season 4. The Secret Sevice used them in episode 5, 'Divide and Conquer' and The NID agents in episode 15, 'Chain Reaction' had them along with some MP5Ks. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]]
:: It's been bugging me for weeks, but I finnaly remembered where I had seen an UZI on SG1. Micro-UZIs were used twice in season 4. The Secret Sevice used them in episode 5, 'Divide and Conquer' and The NID agents in episode 15, 'Chain Reaction' had them along with some MP5Ks. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 03:32 PM, 30/9/10
Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing a paddle release on any of the the 'MP5Ks' so SP89 then? [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]]
== Zastava discussion ==
== Zastava discussion ==
Revision as of 03:30, 18 October 2010
season 7 ep 1 there a solder with a Barrett M82A1 sniper rifle .50 BMG
It's harder to find the scenes with guns because some of these guns are only seen once or in a couple episodes. One needs to really pay attention. The guns only seen once are the hardest to find in the haystack of 10 seasons
This will be another great project because I know where to find pictures of Stargate SG1 and Atlantis, now which episode has a specfic gun will be the hard part.
The dressed up Dressed up Beretta M92F is one of the "Timecop" pistols, which were made from Taurus PT92s.
We've always wondered how much ammo does the guys have? We rarely see any of them reloading at all, and we get this were they were all forced to draw pistols. The only few times we see all of them holding pistols.
one of the bounty hunters used one of Hannibal King's "Camera/Disc" guns
If anyone was wondering about my change that I immediately 'undid' myself, I posted a pic and then deleted it because (stupid me) I put the wrong sight mount on the pistol and only realized it when I edited the page. I will repost the SG1 pistol shot when I get the correct sight mount. MoviePropMaster2008 20:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Stinger & AT4 appearance
I think Stinger missiles made another appearance in the last episode of Season 6 "Full Circle" when Teal'c and other kids on Abydos use them and AT4s to defend against Anubis' forces. One of the Stingers missed the glider, while Teal'c randomly fired another one and shot down another glider.
AT4 made the first appearance in Season 3 episode "Forever in a Day" when Carter picked up a AT4 from a fallen Marine and used it to destroy a staff cannon position, which is a correct application of AT4. It didn't show up again until Season 6 when people just start using it as an anti-aircraft weapons.
Interesting/Of Note: In the picture of the AT4 being fired, it is fired from the left shoulder. The AT4 is always fired from the right shoulder due to the flip up sights, safety levers, and trigger. I won't say it can't be fired from the left shoulder, I will say it would be awkward getting everything in a comfortable and functional location from what I remember. The directions on it even tell the user to use the right shoulder only.
I know it's been a while since this was posted, but the image in question looks like it's been flipped, since the sight covers are still on the top of the weapon, rather than underneath like you would expect them to be it it was being fired left handed. The Wierd It 21:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
M249s
Can we get some evidence that the M249s are mockups rather than real ones? The Wierd It 15:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, the M249s in this show, Stargate: Atlantis, and many other movies and TV shows filmed in Canada are actually Korean K3 LMGs. The easiest way to tell is because they have a different style front and rear sight, but besides that, they look a lot like the SPW variant of the FN Minimi. One of our other admins, who is an armorer and gunsmith in the business, has confirmed that this was done because there was a time when armorers had a lot of difficulty acquiring real M249s. We're hoping to get pictures of the K3s (better ones than what we have now) soon so that we can illustrate the difference a bit more clearly. -MT2008
does anyone think
Does anyone think we should add the energy weapons such as staff weapons and zat guns? I know they are not real firearms but they do play a large part in the show and they are cool.
They might be cool, but they are not real weapons. I don't want to put the time to do such a thing. This is Internet Movie FIrearms Database, not alien and fantasy weapons database Excalibur01 15:49, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
I know I was just thinking that they are a very importiant part of the show. Just look at how many times zat guns have saved them. haha
there are article on fictional guns...there should a Internet Movie weapon Database covering all weapons in movies. Rex095
I guess it shouldn't be too bad, but if you are going to post crappy low res shots, forget it Excalibur01 04:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Luger?
Can anyone ID the handgun used by Teal'c to threaten Netan in Season 9, Episode 20, Camelot? I know this a bit of a long shot because the weapon in question is only seen for a few seconds and from crappy angles. I think it might be a Luger P08. Pravda616
--Armyguy277 20:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)== not a M4 ==
this pick really dosent look like a M4 carbine in lookis more like a Diemaco C8 carbine --Armyguy277 20:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Because it has an Elcan? Some of our Canadian armorer friends have told us that Diemaco/Colt Canada does not sell its weapons to film armorers, so it is pretty much impossible to see any C7 or C8 rifles in film/TV. We have mistakenly referred to some M16/CAR1-5 rifles as Diemaco weapons in the past, but this is a mistake that needs to be corrected. -MT2008 15:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
There really isn't much distinct differences between the 2 carbines at a glance. You see so many ELCAN sights is because the show was made in Canada, Excalibur01
That is an M4, it has a stepped barrel. The C8 has an M16A1 style barrel without the M203 step. The Wierd It 17:16, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
ok thanks for clearing that up --Armyguy277 20:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
The "Carter Special"
The page says that this gun is a cut-down Armalite M15A4. However, that lower receiver is quite clearly Olympic Arms - you can tell by the white writing on the right side of the magazine well, plus I watched the episode, and it's possible to see the OA crest on the left side, too. I would guess that this gun is probably a modified K23B "stubby" with the front sight removed, a free-floating hand guard installed, and the thumbhole stock added. -MT2008 15:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Well I posted the image, but I don't remember calling it an Armalite. Let's change it to an OA. Excalibur01
It's a K23B, not an OA93. But I will correct it myself... -MT2008 02:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
They're also wrong about the type of weapon that the Carter Special was based on, and I told them so in the discussion. -MT2008 20:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I've amended the base weapon on there. Is there anything else that needs correcting? The Wierd It 20:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that stock is not from an AR-180, it's a "Bell & Carlson AR-15 Thumbhole Stock". --ShootoutWithDave 16:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
On there, not here. I trust the info here more than there. The Wierd It 21:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
The M16A2s/C7s
(moved from the page)
These are all Colt Model 715s, which are equivalent to the Diemaco C7, not M16A2s. If you look closely, you can see they all have the A1-style rear sight (adjustable for windage but NOT elevation, unlike the A2-style rear sight).
I agree. That's what we get for filming a show in Canada.... :)
Al Vrkljan told me on the The Incredible Hulk (2008) page that Canadian armorers can't acquire Colt Canada rifles, either, because they only sell to military/LE. But those guns do look very C7-ish to me...
well tennachly they don`t have to own them ,lots of militarys have leanded weapons to tv and movie armourers. but in this case they are not. --Armyguy277 23:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I can't imagine there's any military (outside of the poorest Third World countries) that would ever lend its weapons to film armorers. Motion picture blanks are very different from military blanks (they're loaded with far more powder, so they'll produce a bigger flash on camera), so you can't just loan an M16 to a film's property master, stick on a military BFA, and expect it to fire full-flash blanks. Plus there are legal issues involved, I'm sure.
Anyway, the Canadian armory which supplies weapons to Stargate: SG1 also supplies to lots of other movies and TV shows filmed in British Columbia. Since that conversation we had on the SG1 page, we have noticed that the "C7" rifles that this armory stocks are actually Olympic Arms K4Bs (which look identical to the C7, except that they have the distinctive "Stowaway" pistol grip). I can pretty much guarantee you that the "C7s" in Stargate: SG1 are these same guns. In which case, they definitely didn't come from the Canadian armed forces. -MT2008 02:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Missing Guns
Does someone want to check out season 1, episode 18, Tin Man? I saw an Uzi and what looked like a Dragunov sniper rifle. Pravda616
Well no, that's from season 6, episode 16. But good point, that also looks like a Dragunov. Pravda616
Are you sure it´s Tin Man? The only weapons visible in that episode are the standard MP5´s if I remember correctly . --Milkovich 08:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Yeah sorry about that, SG1 has so many episodes that I got confused. I meant season 2, episode 4, Gamekeeper. I'm sure there was an Uzi and a Dragunov being used by the East Germans in O'Neill's flashback. There was also a rifle being used by O'Neill's team for counter-sniping that didn't recognize. Pravda616
Added the Dragunov. I couldn't spot the UZI, though. --Milkovich 10:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
It's been bugging me for weeks, but I finnaly remembered where I had seen an UZI on SG1. Micro-UZIs were used twice in season 4. The Secret Sevice used them in episode 5, 'Divide and Conquer' and The NID agents in episode 15, 'Chain Reaction' had them along with some MP5Ks. Pravda616 03:32 PM, 30/9/10
One scene, this Russian SG woman was using what appeared to be an AK47 variant (with a .223 magazine - could be a Type 84, or if the receiver has an RPK reinforcing bar, it could be the Zastava M90 chambered in 5.56mm NATO), but in the next scene, it appeared to be an AK-74.
The magazine appears to be Norinco Type 84-style, and there are lots of those in Hollywood's rental armories.
Could be but since SG1 is filmed in Canada, none of the California armorers work on the show and Canadian armorers can still get a lot of stuff that we Americans can't (despite their ridiculous gun restrictions for the 'common folk').
Yeah, possibly. I admit the fact that the M70B appears in the show suggests it could be an M90. However, I seem to recall seeing at least one episode of this show where the AK74 I saw was definitely a Type 84 (hooded front sight, smooth receiver cover, plus less-curved mag).
In this episode, the Russian officer asks about O'Neills P90, and then saying that he himself prefers the Serb/Yugoslav Zastava. They are most likely the M85, which is a pretty standard looking AK-74U copy. picture: http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/39/24/32/m85_5_12.jpg
I'm pretty sure he name-checks it as an M85 in that scene. The Wierd It 09:16, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's an M85. The M85 has an under-folding stock, while this weapon has a standard AKS-74-style side folding stock. It looks to me like a regular AKS-74U. -MT2008 12:23, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
OK, I just watched this episode. The weapon is clearly not a Zastava M85. As best I can tell, it's a Norinco Type 84 that's been modified with a Krinkov parts kit to look like an AKS-74U. It doesn't have the RPK-style heavy receiver of Zastavas, and it has a side-folding stock rather than under-folding (as on the M85). They may have called it a Zastava on the episode, but the prop weapon is something else (not uncommon in movies). -MT2008 14:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
So there is no way to be certain about what specific model it is? --Milkovich 19:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd put down that it's what I said - it's a Norinco Type 84 that's been mocked up as an AKS-74U. That's an acceptable identification, even if it's not exactly simple. -MT2008 20:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Cobray and lower handguard
Error creating thumbnail: File missingColonel Reynolds (Eric Breker) opens fire on the approaching Jaffa Gliders with his M4 in "Lost City, Part 1". Like others, this one has the lower handguard removed to accommodate the Cobray CM203.
This is what the caption first read. I edited the last sentence out because I am unsure WHY exactly they would remove the lower handguard. Is there any specific reason or was it done simply for the looks? --Milkovich 07:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Because it's usually done when mounting an underbarrel launcher to an M4? The Wierd It 09:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for answering the question, I will edit the last sentence back in. --Milkovich 09:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
MP-7/P-90 Switcheroo
I always wondered why SG-1 switched from the MP-7 which they were using when Mitchell joined the team back to the P-90? Production costs? --Charon68 23:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
They only used the MP7 for a couple episodes and then went back to the P90 and we never see the MP7s again in the main cast. Excalibur01 02:40, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
That's what I meant. It looked like they were changing weapons to the MP-7 and, if I recall, Mitchell even carried a G-36 for a while. I was wondering why they switched back to the P90 instead of keeping the HK line going. --Charon68 09:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
How did it look like SG1 were changing weapons? They all used MP7s in exactly one episode! And that was when they were undercover posing as drug dealers. They probably thought the P90 was to recognizable. As for the G36, Mitchell (and Carter once) uses it regularly in missions that require more firepower than usual. Pravda616
The change to using 5.56s more than P90s was, at least in season 8, more for cost reasons (5.7mm blanks were getting expensive as the company that made them had to start filling military orders for live rounds) After that, I don't know. The Wierd It 07:10, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
It was my understanding that the 5.7mm shortage was only temporary, which is why the 'Carter special' from season 7 wasn't reused in the following seasons. Also I remember someone saying in an audio commentary that the main reason they kept using the G36 because they thought it looked cool! Pravda616
Don't quote me on this, but a while back I read that it was partly due to the fact they used Tokyo Marui products as non-firing props. And when TM developed their MP7, they provided them to the show in order to create awareness and take advantage of the airsoft playing viewers and/or cos-players. It makes sense to me, but I think only the armourer would be able to provide the right answer. --Crazycrankle 08:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion, appearing in one episode and briefly in another isn't really enough exposure to justify that. The Wierd It 10:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
As seen in "A Matter of Time", wielded by - what I presume to be - real members of the US military. I am looking for confirmation on these. --Milkovich 09:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
How do we know they're actual enlisted U.S. military personnel? If the guy in the top image is an actual serviceman, one would expect him to know instinctively not to grip his M16 so close to the barrel and front sight (which get hot when fired).
The gun IDs appear correct, although I'm trying to figure out why we've seen mostly K3s on the show if the armorers had access to Minimis/M249s. -MT2008 19:10, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
The footage was taken at the actual entrance to Cheyenne mountain and with the great display of cooperation on the part of the US Armed forces I´d say that those men being real soldiers is a fair guess. And I know nothing about weapons, but I personally would pick my own way of holding the weapon to reach, what one might call, maximum efficiency. I will add them to the page now. --Milkovich 12:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
They are real forces personnel I believe, along with the majority of the soldiers seen in exterior shots of the SGC: it was mentioned once on a DVD commentary that they were real soldiers.--Commando552 13:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I have heard it mentioned that the establishing shots of Cheyenne Mountain's entrance in this show were filmed on-location, but that's JUST establishing shots. The rest of the show, including the action scenes, is filmed in British Columbia. So, I would still be really surprised if those guys are U.S. military personnel, or if that particular scene was filmed on-location. Remember that a good editor can mix footage filmed in two different locations and make it look like the entire scene takes place only in one location.
And I know nothing about weapons, but I personally would pick my own way of holding the weapon to reach, what one might call, maximum efficiency.
Since you don't know anything about weapons, please take my word for it: That would not be "maximum efficiency" for ANYONE who wants to keep the skin on their hand intact. All AR rifles get hot around the barrel and front sight post when fired. If you hold an AR the way this guy is doing, you WILL get burned when you shoot (especially on an M16A1, which doesn't have the heavier barrel of later models). Even the most boot Private in the reserves knows this. So if that guy were actually in the Air Force, he would know to grip his M16 properly through muscle memory alone. Thus, I think it is safe to conclude that this guy is an untrained actor who had never held an M16 before working on this show. There's just no way that an enlisted soldier, Marine, or airman would do something that's so obviously wrong. -MT2008 17:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Especially the Marines. They spend more time training with the rifle than any other branch. Excalibur01 18:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
On the topic of the M16 holding, maybe thats how the production team told him to hold it so it looked cool, we don't know. However, in that episode, the sequence of the soldiers jumping out of jeeps and trucks is definitely on location, as it is in front of the main entrance. Furthermore, one of the soldiers/airmen/whatevers jumping out of a truck seems to be wearing a set of Ranger Body Armour, which has never been shown in another shot as of the show as far as I know, which leads me to believe that there was at least some participation by serving soldiers. Commando552 19:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
maybe thats how the production team told him to hold it so it looked cool, we don't know.
Do you really think directors are that anal? Or that they have that kind of time on their hands? The simplest explanation is that this guy simply didn't have experience with an M16 in real life, and the armorer didn't have time to show him the proper way to hold it. So he just held it the way he thought seemed cool. You're over-thinking this.
Even if the soldiers leaving their vehicles was filmed on location, that one shot (of this guy holding his M16) could have still been filmed elsewhere. We don't see Cheyenne Mountain in the background, after all, and they do reshoots all the time after principal photography. Also, what is "Ranger Body Armour"? Never heard of any such thing. U.S. military personnel wore the PASGT (vest and helmet) at the time this episode was filmed. PASGT has since been replaced by the Interceptor OTV/IOTV (in the Army) and the Modular Tactical Vest (in the Marines). And all of these vests (or replicas) can be purchased by civilians, so their appearance in the show means nothing. -MT2008 22:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
IIRC, Ranger Body Armor was a set of armor with kevlar/ceramic ballistic plates that was developed for and mainly used by the 75th Ranger regiment (hence the name) from the early 1990s until the early 2000s. It was the vest that Rangers wore in Somalia and is seen pretty prominently in Black Hawk Down.--Markit 22:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I see. In that case, Commando552 seems to be suggesting that the producers brought in some actual Army Rangers...just to show them gathering at the complex entrance to point weapons at it? At the very least, if they were real personnel, they'd be USAF perimeter security, not Army Rangers. -MT2008 22:59, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I was not suggesting they brought in Army Rangers for the filming of this one scene. I imagine that it is possible that the RBA ended up being used by people other than Rangers, so they may indeed be USAF personnel. As this footage is shot on location at the entrance, it would not have been a case of bringing in personnel, but just using the ones that were already there. I can't remember where I heard it, but have definitely heard in an interview or audio commentary that this footage was stock footage shot not specifically for this episode, but was done when they had the opportunity as it would be needed eventually. Here is a screencap:
Also it is worth noting that the other security forces are wearing a leather police type belt, rather than the ALICE webbing they wear in other appearances. It seems possible to me that they are either real security forces, or the production team was given equipment by the USAF to shoot this, as they were on location at Cheyenne. Either way this would explain the different equipment, and the use of real M16s and M249s Commando552 09:08, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Fake G3SG/1?
Not certain, but I believe the sniper rifle used by Oneill in Orpheus isn't an SG/1. The reason I say this is that it has a bolt on bipod rather than the integrated one in the hand-guard, it lacks full auto, it used a different after market cheek riser rather than the one supplied with the SG/1, and (although it is hard to tell from the photos) it seems to lack the secondary setting trigger behind the main one. As an aside, did all SG/1s have this secondary trigger or was it removed at some point, as the photo on the SG/1 page is also lacking it.
MT2008 pointed out (I think) that most SG1s/SR9s in American (Canada too?) armories are modified G3/HK91s. The original sniper versions are rare and really expensive and HK think we suck and hate us. So it is better to 'chop up' and modify the much cheaper HK91 and make a similar looking rifle. Even so called G3s are HK91s with the G3 trigger pack installed, so nothing is what it seems in movies and television. MoviePropMaster2008 15:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. This is an HK91 mocked up to look like a G3 SG/1. Just as the "M249s" are all mocked-up Daewoo K3s, the "Berettas" in the early episodes were all Taurus PT92s, and the "M203s" are all harmless 37mm Cobray flare launchers. That's Hollywood for you. -MT2008 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for that, assumed it was a HK91, but didn't know how to tell them apart specifically. Should the entry be changed to reflect this or should ti be left as is (I'm new here not sure what the procedure is for mock ups like this)? Also do you happen to know if there was a version of the SG/1 made without the setting trigger, as if not I think the photo on the SG/1 page is of a converted G3. Commando552 19:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the page should point out the fact that the G3/SG1 is a mock-up from an HK91. And yes, our own picture (which is itself a real movie gun) also shows a mock-up built from an HK91. -MT2008 22:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Why the ELCAN?
One thing has struck me looking through this article is the use of the ELCAN. Why specifically would SGC have chosen the ELCAN over ACOG for their battlefield optic?
This show was made in Canada and it would be natural for the armorer to have ELCAN scopes. Maybe he didn't have ACOGs in his armory. US troops have been seen with the ELCAN before. Excalibur01 18:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
