Talk:AK-12: Difference between revisions

Is it just me, or do the vast majority of these images look like a photoshopped version of the same image that is on the main page? Are these even all real variants, or are they just supposed/planned variants? --commando552 (talk) 18:56, 17 March 2014 (EDT)

Here can be seen some good and most updated (January 2014) images. Greg-Z (talk) 23:11, 17 March 2014 (EDT)

What an ugly AK

How can they go from the sleek beauty that was the AK47 and end up with this? It looks hideous. --cool-breeze 13:13, 9 February 2012 (CST)

Is beauty really a criteria you have for rifles? The AK-12 is a military rifle after all, and I don't think the Russian military compare guns using how good it looks as a category. In my world, it doesn't matter how ugly a gun is, if it does it's job well, it's welcomed with open arms. Also, was the AK-47 really that good-looking? It looked a bit plain to me. User:Alasdair

Although, as you say, how it looks is largely irrelevant for a military weapon, I actually quite like the look of it compared to traditional AKs. I've never understood people's love for the look of the AK-47. If it was released now, it would be derided as an aesthetic and ergonomic abomination. --commando552 04:34, 10 February 2012 (CST)

What's with all the hate against modularity? Like it or not, it's the future. Look at the US military and note how the addition of rail interface systems have greatly expanded the flexibility of current weapon systems like the M16 and M14 by enabling the quick and easy attachment of virtually any sighting or control device without the need for a gunsmith. Are you in an Iraqi town full of insurgents? Stick on a red dot and a broomstick for the MOUT that you're ultimately going to face. Then the next day when you suddenly find yourself out in the open countryside? Pull those off and replace them with a magnified optic and bipod which would be better suited to that environment. I don't see any conceivable reason why the Ruskies wouldn't want such a capability, and this is exactly what the AK-12 delivers. Spartan198 02:16, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

Really?

Is this really a new AK variant, or is it still an experimental weapon?--Gunner5

The one labelled as AK-200 was the prototype, the AK-12 is supposedly the production model and is currently being field tested. I wouldn't be surprised though if it was never actually adopted, like all of the other "replacements" for the AK-74. --commando552 19:33, 9 February 2012 (CST)

Russian military has already said that they are not interested in the AK12. They want to get a brand new rifle, which will be as accurate as the M4 or G36--Flexo 08:23, 11 February 2012 (CST)

When and where did you hear that? As the AK-12 was only unveiled 2 weeks ago I doubt the Russian army has actually done any proper testing yet. Are you sure you aren't getting it mixed up with the earlier AK-200 prototype? --commando552 09:14, 11 February 2012 (CST)

Here: http://newsru.com/russia/25jan2012/aka.html

and here: http://newsru.com/russia/17feb2012/ak12.html

Because you do not read russian, I inform you about the content of this articles: Russian military demand from the manufacturer an assault rifle of OTHER design. They are convinced that АК-47 it is impossible to transform into the modern weapon by ANY modernization. But АК-12 it is only modernization of AK-47/AKM/AK-74/AK-100/AK-200 etc. --Flexo 13:15, 11 February 2012 (CST)

By the way, in this article also it is written about new pistol "Strike" which has a design similar with Glock. It is a pity that a photo of awful quality :( --Flexo 13:41, 11 February 2012 (CST)

Renaming weapons ??? AK-12 to A-545 ???

http://topwar.ru/33752-ak-12-protiv-a-545-strannye-novosti-o-konkurse.html

I do not understand Russian. Please, corrected article. --Emto (talk) 12:39, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

No, AK-12 retains its name. A-545 is a completely different gun, a new model by V.A. Degtyarev Plant that is suggested for competition with AK-12. A-545 seems to be a derivation of AEK-971. Greg-Z (talk) 12:34, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

http://iichan.hk/mi/src/1392219748199.jpg Is this the weapon ?? --Emto (talk) 12:39, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

Looks so, but I'm not sure as all images of AEK-971 show side-folding stock while here we see retractable stock. Let's wait for some time, maybe more reliable images will appear. Greg-Z (talk) 14:28, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

A new patch for the game "Survarium". It adds just the weapon. I do not know what this weapon.

http://survarium.com/en/news/v024a-key-features-preview

--Emto (talk) 14:34, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

I don't think this gun is the A-545, but is just the current models of the AEK-971S and AEK-973S (might have a different letter than "S" to distinguish the variant, but have never heard a different name for it). During some of the Ratnik trials the director of TsNIITochMash gave an interview with a Russian blogger, and when asked about alternatives to the AK-12 he said that Degtyarev had presented an AEK variant (probably what you pictured), and Tula had come up with a variant that is called the A-545. However I am not quite sure what the context of the use of "Tula" means, as in whether he means KPD in Tula, or designed by TsNIITochMash and made by the Tula Arms Plant (here is the original Russian article). I can believe both, as I found this image from Ratnik trials in 2013, which appears to show a modernised AL-7 at the top (designed by TsNIITochMash), and AK-12 in the middle, and a bullpup at the bottom which resembles an A-91 (designed by KPD) but with some differences. --commando552 (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

I believe in a strong probability that the A-545, is an updated version of 5,56A-91, or simple a more official designation for the same base model. And while I'm not exactly fluent in Russian, as a native speaker of Slavic language I am positive he was referring to Tula as an adjective (note the lower case 't' as opposed to upper case 'D' in Degtyarev) for a bureau set in Tula. --BeloglaviSup (talk) 18:05, 6 August 2014 (EDT)

http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=150135 A-545 It is a modernized version of AEK-971.

Where are you getting that the A-545 is a variant of the AEK-971? The term A-545 isn't mentioned anywhere in that source. If anything, doesn't this confirm that the designations for these new 5.45 and 7.62 variants are 6П67 and 6П68 respectively? --commando552 (talk) 19:50, 7 August 2014 (EDT)

Changed?

Apparently, the newest AK-12 rifles have a 2-round burst setting instead 3, and from YouTube videos and comments it appears to have the same RoF as the full-auto mode. What's with that? Did they actually do such a change and made it standard for the current AK-12s? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2016 (EDT)

Fireclean Tactical (sorry) did shoot this gun when they were in Russia. It had a 2-round burst then.--AnActualAK47 (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2016 (EDT)

I don't know if the RoF ever actually changed when changing firemodes, wasn't that just a videogame-ism?--AgentGumby (talk) 23:59, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

Some sources used to state that the burst is at 1000 RPM compared to the 600/650 RPM for full-auto, though I'm not sure if it's actually true. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 08:29, 19 August 2016 (EDT)

Here's Larry Vickers handling a 2015 AK-12, it has a 2-round burst that seems to fire faster than 600 RPM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAjkxLSkv7Q Mr. Wolf (talk) 16:40, 21 August 2016 (EDT)

Now the current AK-12 has a 2-round burst setting, I've made the change on the page to list only two-round burst, not three. If there is actual evidence that early versions/prototypes fired in three-round bursts, someone's gotta mention this. On another note, we have new stuff: the AK-15 7.62x39mm version of the AK-12, the Kalashnikov SVK designated marksman rifle available in both 7.62x51mm and 7.62x54mmR, and the RPK-16 5.45x39mm light machine gun version, kind of a counterpart of the 7.62x39mm RPK-12 (assuming this one was actually produced). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:40, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

What you have to bear in mind is that with the AK-12, even now, has only existed as prototypes and trial versions and the specifications have varied as such. I believe that the earlier AK-12 prototypes with the front sight at the front of the barrel had a 3 round burst, whereas the latter prototype with the front sight on the gas block (as shown in that Vickers video) had a two round burst. As for the speed of the burst, I do not know what the ROF is but in the high speed footage in that video it seems identical between burst and full auto. The whole thing is complicated by the fact that the current AK-12 is actually pretty much totally unrelated to the AK-12 as pictured on the main page, instead being based on the more traditional looking AK-400 prototype. --commando552 (talk) 17:19, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Yeah, there's a lot of differences, including the fact they added back the old AK-style selector. Also I don't get it why they got rid of the ambidexterity from the early AK-12. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:17, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

I'm not even convinced that the AK12/76 or RPK-12 even exist outside of someone's Adobe image manipulator, and I'm not gonna hold my breath on the Russian army moving away from bubba'd AK74Ms anytime soon.--AgentGumby (talk) 17:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

I'm with AgentGumby on this one regarding these variants, which is why I'm moving the so-called AK-12U and RPK-12 back to the talk page. Also, what's with that "SVD-12"? Another conceptual photoshop that some sources call as such, while others at some point stated "SVK-12". I think the image on IMFDB should be listed simply as a 7.62x51mm AK-12. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:49, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

It look like the COD MW series "AK-47", what a coincidence. --Dannyguns (talk) 04:40, 27 November 2016 (EST)

In fact, the reason for this "uprgaded" 2016 design of AK-12 is very simple. Izhmash built the first prototypes to win the tender and beat A-545. When they got the tender, this "new" version appeared - which is essentially an AK-74M with an adjustable stock, rail mounts and different front sight. The only thing which is really new is the magazine with windows on it. --MaranaInfirmux (talk) 08:40, 30 January 2017 (EST)

Somewhere, a Russian is crying. Really, all these "innovations" and "advancements" just to win the bloody contest. Now, they're back to the same old and awkward AK with rails. Look at the Galil ACE to see how the things are done right. DJ_von_CAHEK (talk) 05:02, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

By the way, why does it say in the page (as well as outside of the site) that this is the 2013 prototype model? I mean, this particular version was unveiled in 2012. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 03:55, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

I've changed it to 2012. As you say, any site that identifies the prototypes distinctly by year calls this the 2013 for some reason, but as this is a picture of the rifle that existed in 2012 should probably be labelled that way (after all, even our picture was uploaded in 2012 so it cant be a variant made in 2013). Maybe it was "adopted" to some degree in 2013 or passed some testing milestone then, or perhaps there is a subtly different 2013 model that people misidentify as this one. --commando552 (talk) 07:59, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

Oh and here I see that near the end of 2011 there were already reports of the "AK-12" name replacing "AK-200". --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 16:24, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

In the ol' bearded 2012, they made a lot of sloppy photoshops of the same proto, claiming these are proposed variants in plenty of calibers, barrel lengths, etc. In the 2013 the slightly improved version has appeared. The butt-ugly pistol grip was polished a bit, and the memetic ПОЗА selector has been changed to a less erotic ПР-1-3-АВ, presumably still written with a correction fluid. The 2013 proto is a "version 1.1" of the 2012. Since the 2013 proto had more photos for reference (the '12 had only one or two), it is the one that made it to many videogames. There are also two later less-known protos, and the latter even made it to airsoft in Russia. I drew them in Flash here with little bits of info on each one, except I left the ПОЗА selector just for shits and giggles. Of course, after winning the contest, they brought in a downgraded rifle "for adoption". It's like winning the Grach contest and then switching to a tacticool Makarov after the crushing victory. Russia, everyone. DJ_von_CAHEK (talk) 05:16, 2 November 2017 (EDT)

Those are some good illustrations dude, I wasn't aware of the differences between the 2014 and 2015 versions.--AgentGumby (talk) 14:04, 3 November 2017 (EDT)

RPK-16

The RPK-16 LMG hasn't appeared in media yet, but if it does in the future, does it belong to this page (since it's derived from the AK-12) or to the RPK page? Just so I know if I keep/add its specifications here such as the mag size/caliber or remove them. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 08:19, 11 March 2017 (EST)

Reciprocating barrel?

Looking at some footage from the 2013 prototype model as it appears in Killing Floor 2, I noticed that in that game it's animated to have the barrel reciprocate after each shot kind of like the AN-94. I'm assuming it doesn't actually do that since A) I remember that being part of why the AN-94 is as jam-happy as it is, and B) I can't find anyone saying it does, but just to be absolutely clear, does any version of the AK-12 do that? Kadorhal (talk) 18:52, 4 July 2017 (EDT)

At least judging by the Left 4 Dead 2 ports of Killing Floor 2 models and animations, ALL barrels wobble wildly in that game, creating an unsettling immersion. If you see some shooting video in slow motion, the weapon parts do wobble a little, but the barrel on most firearms is completely fixed and is the most immobile part of them all. The wobble animation probably has something to do with KF2's anims being recorded via motion capture, with some sensors fixed poorly on the barrels. DJ_von_CAHEK (talk) 05:09, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

From what I can tell, the reciprocating barrel of the AK12 in KF2 seems to be an illusion from it's detailed wobbling barrel, and not that they animated it to mimic the AN-94's action.--AgentGumby (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2017 (EDT)

I'm not so sure. I'm looking at more footage to double check, specifically comparing the animations from the L85 to the AK-12 in this video. The L85 does have the usual sort of up-and-down, left-and-right wobble when it's fired (I remember the devs animated the guns at something like 200 frames per second just to show off that insane level of detail), the AK-12 seems to have more than that - especially when playing back at 0.25 speed in a section where the player's in Zed Time, I can see a different motion with the front sight pulling more inward towards the main body, right before the usual wobble. The main thing I'm noticing is that the barrel stays pointing in exactly the same direction when I see the possible reciprocating motion, then after that's over it does the normal wobble.

I'm also assuming that I'm right and the real AK-12 wasn't designed with a reciprocating barrel like that. Kadorhal (talk) 20:48, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

Didn't get an answer here yet, but on the off chance anybody discovers this later, here's the PSX 2017 trailer for a VR version of Killing Floor 2, which if you pay attention most definitely shows the AK-12's barrel reciprocating after every shot. Still, the actual question remains whether that's how the real thing works or an artistic liberty Tripwire took when animating it. Kadorhal (talk) 23:42, 14 February 2018 (EST)

Yeah I've played the game a bit more and it definitely reciprocates, but that's an artistic choice. There's a Larry Vickers video where he shoots the second prototype of the AK-12, and he doesn't mention the barrel reciprocating nor does it appear to in the real footage.--AgentGumby (talk) 00:00, 15 February 2018 (EST)

The real AK-12 absolutely does not have a reciprocating barrel so there is no question about that, the actual question is just whether it is an optical illusion, a glitch, or a bizarre deliberate choice. --commando552 (talk) 17:37, 15 February 2018 (EST)

Care for some laughs?

So, this is "Arguments and Facts" newspaper site. How did they manage to pick this particular photoshopped image is a mystery for another time.
http://www.udm.aif.ru/society/v_nachale_sleduyushchego_goda_v_izhevske_dolzhny_zavershitsya_ispytaniya_ak_12
Does this receiver remind you of anything? Huh? HUH? DJ_von_CAHEK (talk) 18:21, 13 April 2018 (EDT)

@@ Line 90: / Line 90: @@
 :::::Yeah I've played the game a bit more and it definitely reciprocates, but that's an artistic choice. There's a Larry Vickers video where he shoots the second prototype of the AK-12, and he doesn't mention the barrel reciprocating nor does it appear to in the real footage.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:00, 15 February 2018 (EST)
 ::::::The real AK-12 absolutely does not have a reciprocating barrel so there is no question about that, the actual question is just whether it is an optical illusion, a glitch, or a bizarre deliberate choice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:37, 15 February 2018 (EST)
+== Care for some laughs? ==
+So, this is "Arguments and Facts" newspaper site. How did they manage to pick this particular photoshopped image is a mystery for another time. <br>
+http://www.udm.aif.ru/society/v_nachale_sleduyushchego_goda_v_izhevske_dolzhny_zavershitsya_ispytaniya_ak_12 <br>
+Does this receiver remind you of anything? Huh? [[Beretta ARX-160|HUH?]] [[User:DJ von CAHEK|DJ_von_CAHEK]] ([[User talk:DJ von CAHEK|talk]]) 18:21, 13 April 2018 (EDT)

Talk:AK-12: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 22:21, 13 April 2018

Contents

Additional Images (all photoshopped)

What an ugly AK

Really?

Renaming weapons ??? AK-12 to A-545 ???

Changed?

RPK-16

Reciprocating barrel?

Care for some laughs?

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Talk:AK-12: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 22:21, 13 April 2018

Additional Images (all photoshopped)

What an ugly AK

Really?

Renaming weapons ??? AK-12 to A-545 ???

Changed?

RPK-16

Reciprocating barrel?

Care for some laughs?

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