Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops: Difference between revisions
Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops: Difference between revisions
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See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops/Archive 1]] and [[Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops/Archive 2]] for older discussions.
See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops/Archive 1]] and [[Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops/Archive 2]] for older discussions.
= Weapons only found in game files =
Many of these weapon models were tested or based on ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'' models.
==Colt AR-15A3==
An AR-15A3 model, use in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'', was used to test the "Commando". It was incorrectly referred to as the M4A1 Carbine, just like the previous Call of Duty game. The Commando was referred to as the "M4A1 Carbine" in the game files.
[[File:AR15A3BO1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AR-15A3 appears in the menu icon referred to as the M4A1 Carbine]]
==HK MP5N==
An MP5N model, used in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]'', was used to test the MP5K. The MP5K was referred to as the "MP5" in the game files.
[[File:Hk-mp5n.jpg|thumb|none|450px|HK MP5A3 with Navy trigger group - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Mp5 ingame CoD BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MP5N appears in the game]]
= Live Action Commercial=
= Live Action Commercial=
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= Miscellaneous Weapons =
= Miscellaneous Weapons =
This section covers other throwables and melee weapons.
== SOG Knife ==
==Semtex Grenades==
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the player (as Alex Mason) in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is in use.
Semtex Grenades return from ''Modern Warfare 2''.
[[Image:Shot0159.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife in idle. Note the tally marks.]]
==Decoy Grenades==
What appears to be improvised grenades made out of rifle rounds can be used to create a decoy on enemy radars.
[[Image:Shot0167.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife been drawn.]]
== Tomahawk (Strider Hatchet) ==
The Tomahawk is a thrown weapon occupying the lethal grenade slot, serving the same role as the throwing knife from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' in multiplayer. In singleplayer, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it. It is based on the medium variant of the Strider Hatchet and is anachronistic. An M-1910 hand axe would have been more appropriate.
== Tomahawk ==
The Tomahawk axe is a melee weapon that replaces the throwing knife (or tactical knife) from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' in mutliplayer. In single-player, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it.
[[Image:Tomahawk-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tomahawk in Create-a-Class.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tomahawk in Create-a-Class.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BOthrow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Tomahawk being thrown.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BOthrow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Tomahawk being thrown.]]
== Ballistic Knife ==
== Ballistic Knife ==
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body.Even though the ballistic knife does not appear in single player,it's appearance in multiplayer could be seen as anachronistic,as the ballistic knife was not developed until the early 1980's
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body. Even though the ballistic knife does not appear in single player, its appearance in multiplayer could be seen as anachronistic, as the ballistic knife was not developed until the early 1980's. A weird choice could have been a some type of VC spring pointed stick (VC uses stick to create weapons, including crossbows).
The ballistic knife in game also has an unrealistically long range,the real ballistic knife has a maximum range of only twenty to thirty feet while the blades in game travels near infinitely in an arc.
The ballistic knife in game also has an unrealistically long range, the real ballistic knife has a maximum range of only twenty to thirty feet while the blades in game travels near infinitely in an arc.
[[Image:BK-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ballistic knife being reloaded.]]
[[Image:BK-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ballistic knife being reloaded.]]
== Main Knife ==
== Knife ==
The Rambo II inspired knife returns in ''Black Ops''. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.
The knife returns in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.
Even if the fact that this particular knife wasn't actually used by the military is ignored, its appearance in the 60s would be technically anachronistic since it was developed for the 1985 movie ''[[Rambo: First Blood Part II]]''.
[[Image:659px-KnifeBlackOpsMultiplayer.png|thumb|none|500px|The Main Knife in-game.]]
[[Image:Rambo_knife_2.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Rambo II Survival Knife]]
The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta". It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. Blood can be seen on the blade from stabbing the prison guard earlier, which gives some detail.
The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta" in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. You can see blood on the blade, probably from stabbing the prison guard.
The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the mission "Executive Order". It is used to kill a Soviet soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw. It is [https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cod-black-ops-knife.791781/ based] on the Emerson Karambit Fixed Blade which makes it heavily anachronistic as Emerson Knives was founded in 1996.
The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the Call of Duty: Black Ops mission Executive Order. It is used to kill a Russian soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw.
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the Mason in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is used. It is [https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cod-black-ops-knife.791781/ based] on Randall Model 14 "Attack" with sawteeth and a micarta handle.
[[Image:Shot0159.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife in idle. Note the tally marks.]]
[[Image:Shot0167.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife been drawn.]]
== Bowie Knife ==
== Bowie Knife ==
The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Zombies maps "Der Riese", "Kino der Toten" and "Five". Gameplay-wise, it increases melee damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third Hellhound round.
The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Der Riese, Kino der Toten and Five. It is larger and wider than the standard combat knife in Call of Duty: Black Ops (or any Call of Duty game for that matter). It increases Knife damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third hellround.
== M1942 Machete ==
The M1942 Machete is featured in the campaign. It is used by the Vietcong and is carried in a plastic sheath by US marines and MACV SOG operatives.
[[Image:BowieKnifePolkCompetition2-1024.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Bowie Knife in Real Life.]]
= Attachments =
Due to ''Black Ops'' following in the footsteps of the highly successful ''Modern Warfare 2'' with its wide variety of attachments, the game features many anachronistic and out of place attachments. Back in the 1960s, even special forces weren't that much tactical and used relatively plain weapons with maybe just some optic at most. The attachment system of ''Black Ops'' is just an injection of modern tactical perceptions into the past.
The Israeli '''Elbit Falcon sight''' appears as the "Red Dot Sight" for the western weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as the Falcon was produced in the 1980s. A better optic would be the Nydar Sight (1945), even though it’s only available for shotguns.
A fictionalized depiction of the Russian '''Kobra red dot sight''' appears as the "Red Dot Sight" for the Soviet weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was introduced in 1996 in reality.
The concept of red dot sights didn't exist in the 1960s an the closest thing were occluded eye gunsights such as the Singlepoint SP220 which was actually used by US special forces in the 1970s Son Tay raid.
== Reflex Sight ==
The Swedish '''Aimpoint Electronic''' also known as '''Aimpoint MarkII''' appears as the "Reflex Sight". The Aimpoint Electronic is the first red dot sight in history. It was invented in 1974 and launched in 1975, however, that means its appearance in the 1960s is anachronistic. The Singlepoint Sight would have be the more appropriate scope as it was developed in 1968, but even then, it didn’t saw uses in Vietnam until the Son Tay Raid in November 1970.
== Crossbow ==
== ACOG Scope ==
The '''Colt 3×20 scope''' appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the western weapons. While the Colt scope was used in the Vietnam War, its appearance during the Bay of Pigs invasion is anachronistic considering that the earlier 3x20 version was developed around [http://www.sniperglass.com/Item/1028 1962].
The Crossbow is a new weapon that featured in ''Call of Duty: Black Ops''. It is speculated to fulfill the role of a quiet, long range weapon. The crossbow appears in the campaign missions "Executive Order" and "WMD", which are set in Baikonur and the Ural Mountains, respectively. In multiplayer, crossbows only fire explosive bolts; in singleplayer, they can also fire normal bolts. Crossbows in singleplayer also often have scopes attached.
The Russian '''PK-A''' appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the Soviet weapons and the Galil. However, this is heavily anachronistic considering that it was developed around 2004. The more appropriate scope could have been the PGO-7 scope (1959).
[[Image:Shot0205.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in idle.]]
Equipping the AUG with an "ACOG Scope" turns it into an A1 version complete with a '''Swarovski scope''', however, the entire AUG platform is anachronistic.
[[Image:Shot0206.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in reloading.]]
The XL 60 version of the '''SUSAT scope''' appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the Enfield. However, this is anachronistic considering that this iteration of the SUSAT appeared first on the XL 60 which itself was introduced after June 14, 1976. Also the left side of the scope appears to be a mirror of the right side. A slightly more appropriate scope would be the Enfield EM-2 scope (1951), though the scope itself would've be adjusted for gameplay reasons.
== Flamethrower ==
The actual Trijicon ACOG Scope really doesn't appear in the game, but its appearance and the term "ACOG" itself would have been heavily anachronistic since it was introduced in 1987.
A flamethrower of unknown model has been confirmed to be in Call of Duty: Black Ops as found in the "GKnova6 document" which can be found here: [http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr135/priceman14/doc10.jpg]
== Infrared Scope ==
The document only refers to it as "Improvised Weaponry" in "Phase 1 Testing" with most of the other information redacted.
The '''AN/PVS-3A night vision sight''' appears as the "Infrared Scope" for the western weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was produced circa 1970, but it was used in the Vietnam War for M16s and XM21s. It is depicted with a reticle from the AN/PVS-4 night vision scope. The older AN/PVS-2 (1967) would have been a better choice.
Another model appears as an underbarrel attachment.
The '''NSPU 1PN34''' appears as the "Infrared Scope" for the Soviet weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was developed in the 1970s. It is depicted with its proper reticle. The NSP-2 (1957) would have been a better choice.
The image used by www.codblackopsblog.com
Both the AN/PVS-3A and NSPU 1PN34 are depicted as dual band thermal/night vision optics, which is inaccurate to the real devices which are solely night vision devices; the concept of such dual band optics is also very anachronistic, appearing in the late 2000s at the earliest with fusion devices such as the AN/PSQ-20. Weirdly enough, the night vision sight appears to be a pale blue color, resembling the image from white phosphor image intensifiers; this is also anachronistic as white phosphor image intensifiers did not exist in the 1960s, and would not come into major use until the 1990s (in applications such as the AN/AVS-9's MX-10160 intensifiers). Both the PVS-3A and 1PN34 used green phosphor intensifiers and should produce a monochrome green image accordingly.
Reference image of Flamethrowers in Call of Duty: World at War, a past Treyarch game that featured flamethrowers. Image from www.gameinformer.com
The M41 ITAS sight on the BGM-71 TOW possesses a similar pale blue image but with no passive illumination of heat sources, which is also incorrect as TOW missile systems specifically used thermal optics (the M41 ITAS in particular is supposed to use second-generation FLIR).
[[Image:PSG1pic.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Flamethrower mounted on FAMAS F2 FELIN. ''Note ankward M16 handguard'']]
== Grip ==
The '''Knight's Armament vertical grip''' appears as the "Grip" attachment, though some SMGs use their stocks to represent the grip attachment instead. The appearance of the KAC vertical grip in the 1960s is heavily anachronistic as the KAC rail adapter system and presumably foregrip became available in 1997.
=Discussion=
=Discussion=
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Should we have to include the weapons from the legacy zombie maps? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:26, 29 August 2013 (EDT)
Should we have to include the weapons from the legacy zombie maps? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:26, 29 August 2013 (EDT)
:I can only add that the WWII-guns, used in the Zombie maps, clearly taken from '''Wolrd at War'''. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 08:42, 9 February 2016 (EST)
Pretty sure they didn't start using Vz 58s until after the Vietnam War. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:37, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
== GP ==
== GP ==
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::Yeah, I checked it, and unlike BO2 the third-person model lacks the quadrant sight as well. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 10:13, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
::Yeah, I checked it, and unlike BO2 the third-person model lacks the quadrant sight as well. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 10:13, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
:::I've changed the info on the page to GP-25. If there's anything that proves otherwise, such as the support frame stuff or something like that let us know. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:03, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
:::I've changed the info on the page to GP-25. If there's anything that proves otherwise, such as the support frame stuff or something like that let us know. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:03, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
::::EDIT (three years later) : in addition to that component, the in-game launcher has four ribs around the barrel, in the same setup as a GP-30 (while a GP-25 has three). Therefore, I'll edit it back to GP-30. On another note, the version in CoD4, MW2, MW3, and BO2 only has two ribs, for some weird reason. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 14:05, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
== XM21 with IR Scope ==
== XM21 with IR Scope ==
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:XM21 doesn't have a pistol grip and the IR scope in Blops isn't a PVS-2. Also IIRC the PVS-2 isn't an IR scope anyway, it's an image intensifier. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:17, 21 November 2015 (EST)
:XM21 doesn't have a pistol grip and the IR scope in Blops isn't a PVS-2. Also IIRC the PVS-2 isn't an IR scope anyway, it's an image intensifier. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:17, 21 November 2015 (EST)
== Treyarch need to fix black ops ==
==Weapon Sights==
Considering that this game takes place in the 1960s, wouldn't it be anachronistic for red dot sights and mid-ranged optics (is the ACOG anachronistic as well?) to appear in the game? Did they really exist back in the 1960s or this game, as with most of the guns, adopt the "screw the rules, they had prototypes" attitude? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 19:54, 27 January 2016 (EST)
:I believe most of them are anachronistic with the exception of the Colt "ACOG" 4x32 scope. The reflex sight appears to be the first Aimpoint from 1975, and I don't think the western red dot sight is even modeled on a real optic.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:58, 27 January 2016 (EST)
::I looked into the concept of red dot sights more closely and came across the idea of reflector sights. They apparently existed since WW2 (although they were more commonly used on machine guns, AA cannons, and ship weaponry). I read that after WW2, custom and detachable weapon sights started appearing, but most likely very obscure and not so widespread. As for Infrared scopes and such, I think Germany made detachable scopes for the StG44 during WW2, including a prototype Infrared scope called the "Vampire". Then again, I'm not so certain about the plausibility of red dot sights, "reflex sights", and Infrared scopes as well as attachable weapon mounts (such as rails) for optics. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 22:29, 27 January 2016 (EST)
:::The STG44's setup was nicknamed the "Vampyr" because Germans. The same set-up was used by the US Military in the M3 Carbine. Any rail or scope mount would have to be a custom make because Weaver Rails were still a while away. I always got the vibe with Black Ops that they intended it to be set in the 1980's, what with all the more 80's equipment, but the higher ups made them go to the Vietnam era because the Nam era is a reasonably untapped genre, like WWI or the Spanish-American War. -- [[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 22:47, 27 January 2016 (EST)
::::Don't forget this sight, it's mounted on a BAR--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 01:01, 28 January 2016 (EST)
[[File:OM-BARa.jpg|thumb|600px|none|This movie came out in 1971, no idea how long this sight been around at that point. Nice suit.]]
::::::That's just the scope from an M3 mounted on a BAR. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:05, 28 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Was the PK-A that can be mounted on the AK around in the 60's? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 01:57, 28 January 2016 (EST)
::::::I stand corrected....?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:48, 28 January 2016 (EST)
The Red Dot Sight was first introduced in 1970, when Singlepiont appears in the Vietnam War. --[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 12:33, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
== Commando in Black Ops ==
There is actually two things that Treyarch did wrong. 1 is when they make Tranzit, and the other is guns that there made in 70's, 80's, and 90's. This takes place in the 1960's, so why there is an MP5k, AUG, Colt 733 M4 Prototype, SPAS-12 in the Vietnam War, or L96A1. Why they just put some World at War weapons like the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, or PPSh-41. The Colt 733 M4 Prototype shouldn't been the XM177. --[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 23:23, 20 January 2016 (EST)
I think the Commando is an Colt 733 With a Flattop (Colt M4 Commando)?
:Oh dear god, why do you keep coming back to the Call of Duty pages. First, they aren't fixing a product they already shipped out, especially not for a game that's 5 years old. Second, WE POINTED OUT ALL THE GUNS WERE ANACHRONISTIC ON THE PAGE. Third, if we're referring to Tranzit, then put the discussion on the Black Ops II page rather than it's elderly and anachronistic father. -- [[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 23:52, 20 January 2015 (EST)
[[File:Colt_M733_with_Flattop.jpeg|thumb|450px|none|Colt Model 933 with Fiberlite stock, A1 profile barrel, slim handguards, and no bayonet lug - 5.56x45mm]]
==Weapon Sights==
It looks similar to the Colt M933, but is an M733 with Flattop. The Commando has an Flip Up Iron Sight in the game.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 12:40, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
Considering that this game takes place in the 1960s, wouldn't it be anachronistic for red dot sights and mid-ranged optics (is the ACOG anachronistic as well?) to appear in the game? Did they really exist back in the 1960s or this game, as with most of the guns, adopt the "screw the rules, they had prototypes" attitude? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 19:54, 27 January 2016 (EST)
:I believe most of them are anachronistic with the exception of the Colt "ACOG" 4x32 scope. The reflex sight appears to be the first Aimpoint from 1975, and I don't think the western red dot sight is even modeled on a real optic.
:Firstly, as far as I know there is no such thing as a Model 733 with a flat top, that is just a Model 933. What do you think the difference is? The gun in the game isn't a Model 933 or a 733 though, as regardless of the different design of rail, it also has a slickside upper receiver without a FA or BD. The closest match I can come up with would be a GAU-5A/A with a flash hider rather than the moderator (which was actually done) with a fictional/custom upper with a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:37, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
::I looked into the concept of red dot sights more closely and came across the idea of reflector sights. They apparently existed since WW2 (although they were more commonly used on machine guns, AA cannons, and ship weaponry). I read that after WW2, custom and detachable weapon sights started appearing, but most likely very obscure and not so widespread. As for Infrared scopes and such, I think Germany made detachable scopes for the StG44 during WW2, including a prototype Infrared scope called the "Vamoire". Then again, I'm not so certain about the plausibility of red dot sights, "reflex sights", and Infrared scopes as well as attachable weapon mounts for optics. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] ([[User talk:Kenny99|talk]]) 22:29, 27 January 2016 (EST)
:: c552 is right about the Model 733/Model 933 remarks. I also concur with him about the game gun most closely resembling a GAU-5/A variant. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 01:24, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
:::What it really is, is a gun model made by people that don't actually know anything about guns. In video games a gun can be a whole slew of things do to a dev team's poor gun modeling skills/lack of knowledge. As evidenced by the sling that blocks the bolt release that's used in the reload animation. The main problem is that Treyarch felt the need to make it a flattop AR-15 even though they were never used or made in numbers in the 60s, why would mounting optics on a XM177 carrying handle be so bad? I agree that it seems to be a GAU-5/A with a made-up flattop upper and "filled in" flash hider, I also noticed it has partial magazine fencing too. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 01:43, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
:::: There were experimental flat-top carbines back then, but as you said they were never actually used or issued. That said, I agree there's nothing wrong with actually having optics on the carry handle - indeed that was the case for the longest time. But it evidently doesn't follow their own rigidly self-imposed aesthetic for the game weapons. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 17:32, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
The AR pictured above isn't ''exactly'' an M933, it looks like someone built themselves a lookalike. It has an A1 profile barrel, older slimline handguards, and no bayonet lug. A ''true'' M933 is simply an M4A1 with an 11.5" barrel, retaining the thicker barrel width, double heat shield handguards, and FSP with bayonet lug. That said, however, the Commando in this game is pure fictional franken gun, simply a way for Treyarch to include a "SOPMOD" AR long before the M4 was ever invented and justifying it with the weak excuse that "SOG can get whatever they want". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
:The Colt carbines are kind of a crap-shoot in regards to what features they have, with the 933 being available with or without a bayonet lug, A1 or A2 profile barrel, and either handguard. [http://www.autoweapons.com/photos10/apr/3240m16j.jpg Here] is another 933 with no lug, an A1 barrel, slim handguards and the M4 style stock, and [http://www.autoweapons.com/photos14/sep/vk340m16a.jpg here] is one to the same spec but with the wide handguards. From what I have seen it seems that the thin barrel and no bayonet lug is the most common option (which makes the most sense as this features are pretty useless on a barrel of this length). I believe that all of these images (including the original posted above) are real Colt weapons advertised on Autoweapons. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]])
So I think it could be an GAU-5/A with Flash Hider.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 10:25, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
[[File:GAU-5AA with A1 flash hider.jpg|thumb|450px|none|GAU-5A/A with A1 flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
:No, the GAU-5/A is a different gun with a 10" barrel, the game gun has a longer barrel more like the 11.5" barrel of the GAU-5A/A. This is the gun that you pictured above (which I have properly renamed as the image name was totally nonsensical). Also, when posting images use the code that I have changed it to above so that it is a thumbnail that can have a descriptive caption. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:29, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
::I've rewritten the Commando section to try and have it make some sort of sense, and I noticed that there is an image where it is fitted with optics and has the front sight present (albeit vertically stunted) and the caption reads "Suppressed Colt Commando with Kobra sight. Note clan tag engraved on the charging handle. Also note that, unlike in the released game, the front sight is still present". Anybody know where this is from? Is it early promotional footage or from a beta or what? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:06, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
I think the reason why it has a removable carry handle because Treyarch do the same Flip up sights to the Enfield, Famas, G11, Aug, and M60. So if these Iron Sight were not in the game, than the Commando would have the M16's Iron sights.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 13:32, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
Someone who's not on IMFDB told me that he believes that the Commando is exactly the GAU-5A/A configuration about the USAF flash hider in place of the moderator) "''and the flat-topped receiver is not fictional but what appears to be a chopped off carry handle with a bolted on rail. According to [http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/573301_History_of_flattop_uppers____.html this discussion], this was done in the late 80s and early 90s before the introduction of actual flat-topped receivers. That is also the case with the M16 when mounted with sight attachments apparently. While the article mentions the Model 656 receiver as some kind of justification for the flat-topped receiver actually that's not the case as the BO version is just a chopped off version and this is yet another anachronism''". Ideas? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:17, 15 July 2017 (EDT)
I swear that everything in this game makes me think they intended it to be set in the 1980's rather than the 1960's. The story about brain-washing and rogue Soviet soldiers feels like a cheesy Cannon Films B movie rather than a 1960's set story. The inclusion of several 80's guns over the more proper arsenal that has already been established by previous games like Vietcong seem to back that theory up. Even the Vietnam elements feel more like 1980's CIA shittery than 1960's. I have no leads on the development team, but it feels like the game was intended to be in the 1980's and was just shifted over to the 60's last minute, which could explain how almost every gun is an anachronism. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 14:26, 15 July 2017 (EST)
Or the 1990's. Plus missions like "Executive Order" takes place in 1963, but in realism, it takes place in 1988. The mission "Rebirth" takes place in 1968, but it suppose to takes place in 1989. The mission "Numbers" takes place in 1968, but for realism, it takes place in 1990, and the mission "WMD" take place in 1968, but it should take place in 1997, which is 6 years after the cold war. Back to the Commando, I just figure out about the model. Treyarch wanted to make this gun like a combination with the older CAR-15s and the M4. The flattop rail was based on the MIL-STD-1913 scope rail, which never used in CAR-15s. When you look at the Commando on the E3 Demo, you can see the MIL-STD-1913 scope rail. The Troy Battle Sights was a modern 2000's sight, and the M203 was model after the M203A1. Black Ops was not suppose to go realism, but it was suppose to be more wacky unlike the Modern Warfare Series. Now, I heard rumors saying that the next Black Ops game was going to be a Vietnam Setting, but not as a wacky game, but focus on realism.--[[User:Treliazz|Treliazz]] ([[User talk:Treliazz|talk]]) 10:05, 30 July 2019 (EDT)
== Red Dot Sights ==
Originally the RDS were Korba Sights, but on the AK47, AK-74U, and on the RPK, the RDS looks different. I trying to figure what kind of RDS it is.--[[User:Treliazz|Treliazz]] ([[User talk:Treliazz|talk]]) 16:23, 10 July 2016 (EDT)
== Commando Discussion ==
I read the Topic, and I'm kinda want to search up some Variants of the Commando:
XM177 Shorty (XM177 Short Barrel with A1 Flash Hider)
GAU-5AA (On Topic)
Colt 733 (M16A2/M4 Commando)
Colt 933 (M4 Commando)
Crossfire has the same gun (But a XM177 Flash Hider), and it's based on the Commando in Black Ops, and it was refer as M4 Commando (Also they have an XM177 with flattop).
The M60, Enfield, G11, AUG, Famas has the same iron sights. So Colt 933 can't count (Plus the optics on the M16 has a flattop, so that could be like the commando).
Honestly, I don't think this is a GAU-5AA, because I don't see why is it this gun.
In my theory, this might be a Fictional XM177 with A1 Flash Hider.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 02:49, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
:XM177 is just the name used for the CAR-15 in US military use in Vietnam, a "fiction XM177 variant" ''is'' a CAR-15 variant.
:Also, it would not be remotely realistic for the CIA to be using MP40s in the 1960s, or the Soviet Union to be using PPShs in the 1960s, and the AKMS doesn't fit as a substitute for a shortened AK because it's full-length. The RPG-7, meanwhile, entered service in 1958, which was before the Cuban Missile Crisis: it just didn't see ''combat'' until Vietnam in real life. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:18, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
::Okay, I could agree with you, The RPG-7 was started in 1958, but it was in service in 1961 by the Soviets. In Cuba, the weapons were the FAL and some WW2 and Korean War Weapons. The RPG-7 first war was the Vietnam War, and it was use by the North Vietnamese and the VC in 1967. I was going to remove the WAW Gun, because it's not like realistic. I don't know the Commando is close to the GAU-5AA, I had to be honest.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 05:19, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
:::To clarify why the GAU-5A/A is stated as the closest match, the reason is that it has the combination of a slickside upper and an 11.5" barrel. The XM177 has a shorter 10" barrel, whilst the XM177E2 has an A1 upper with a forward assist. If you don't know what I mean by this, check out the [[Colt AR-15 Identification Guide]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:23, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
::::The in-game gun also appears to have a partial fence on the lower receiver (not a full one), which indeed matches the GAU-5A/A reference image that we have on the main page. By the way, the majority of the GAU-5A/A images that I found online have full fence lowers, while our reference image (with the moderator replaced) is an exception; are there any other images out there with partial fence lowers? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:30, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
== Models ==
I was looking though some models for the AUG, M14, WA2000, and M60. I don't know if it's based on the models from 007 QoS.--[[User:Treliazz777|Treliazz777]] ([[User talk:Treliazz777|talk]]) 23:45, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
== ray gun ==
Where are the wonder weapons like the ray gun
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Ray_Gun
[[User:IRMacGuyver|IRMacGuyver]] ([[User talk:IRMacGuyver|talk]]) 08:27, 14 August 2018 (EDT)
:The silly ray gun doesn't really qualify for inclusion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:28, 14 August 2018 (EDT)
== Two-handed pistol shooting ==
Is it period accurate to see the two-handed technique being used by almost all characters between 1961 and 1968 in the game? I'm reading that it was invented in 1959 (in this specific case the Weaver stance), but I wonder how much time it took for the technique to have become widespread enough. I suppose that if it became quickly popular, this would have been reflected in the movies of that era, which is not the case, as in a significant number of 1960s-1970s movies the handguns are still held with one hand (well, not all filmmakers must have automatically become familiar with the new stance, but still). There are some exceptions, but in these specific cases it's because the character is practice firing and not participating in actual combat; [[Last Adventure, The#Luger P08|here's]] an example (that's one of the earliest media appearances that I know regarding two-handed firing). --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:37, 27 October 2018 (EDT)
:Now let's start with a brief overview. The earliest pistol grip technique is the one-handed or "bullseye". As we know for certain, this was common up until at least WW2. Some believe that this stance [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/26hcyv/why_were_soldiers_and_policemen_originally/ originated in the 18-19th century duels when it made sense to present as narrow a figure as possible to your opponent by standing sideways and firing one-handed]. As for the [https://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:Delta_Force_Five_Seven_MW3.jpg grip featured in CoD games], it is not actually a weaver but a [https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m9/grip-techniques-used-with.shtml "palm-supported grip" also known as "cup and saucer grip"] or "teacup grip". The saucer grip appears to be [https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.chzbgr.com%2Ffull%2F3197724928%2Fh8C2F490E%2F&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcheezburger.com%2F3197724928&docid=p365NpQm3Y9W4M&tbnid=NVV7JAALiZ7G5M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwis5sii1qfeAhXyp4sKHWsKDlEQMwhaKBIwEg..i&w=492&h=488&bih=609&biw=1366&q=cup%20and%20saucer%20grip&ved=0ahUKEwis5sii1qfeAhXyp4sKHWsKDlEQMwhaKBIwEg&iact=mrc&uact=8 mocked and dismissed as impractical hollywoodism]. It is believed that it can be [http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/05/handgun-shooting-positions-bad-stances.html traced back to the revolver era of the Wild West and for a number of reasons it is ineffective with modern guns]. In spite of this, however, in [https://youtu.be/jP7J-JNSUu4?t=283 this video] we can clearly see that the saucer grip was taught back in WW2. In summary, the bullseye and saucer grips were both used in WW2 and I believe that was also the case in Vietnam. As for the actual weaver, I don't think I have ever seen a movie or archival footage of it being used back then, I suppose it was just a novelty in the first few decades. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 18:48, 27 October 2018 (EDT)
::So, the Weaver stance is not the first two-handed technique. But then my original question still stands, being whether the two-handed grip in general (not necessarily the Weaver) was used frequently enough in combat during the 1960s or not (as in, not merely for training purposes), and if it would have been more appropriate to see one-handed shooting for most part. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:21, 28 October 2018 (EDT)
:::I think we can't say if one technique was used more or less back then, all we can do is acknowledge if the given method existed. You see, it's a personal preference, as we can see in the WW2 training video, the two handed stance is more useful when crouching while one handed might have its benefits when standing so really it is a very situational thing. Also bear in mind that COD doesn't even try to portray such details in a realistic manner, I'm pretty sure that their inspiration comes from movies like Platoon or Full Metal Jacket. Considering that BO actually shows both grips (the ASP is one handed) I say that they should at least get credit for portraying both techniques. On another note, I'm just rewatching Terminator 2 and noticed how the T1000 was firing his gun one handed and that made sense since having a mechanical arm would have enough strength and this takes me back to BO3 where it is quite funny how your character uses two handed grip despite having cyborg arms. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 18:42, 29 October 2018 (EDT)
::::"''bear in mind that COD doesn't even try to portray such details in a realistic manner''"
::::[http://youtu.be/Ep85AkCkk-U?t=59 No shit!]
::::<nowiki>:P</nowiki> Now on a more serious note, that's the thing, the two-handed technique is shown as the most widespread in the game, even when standing. Mind you, the ASP is the only pistol shown fired one-handed during normal gameplay (as in, not during some scripted campaign sequences) - except when a player is downed and his third-person model also does this on all handguns, but that's another story. The thing with the ASP is that it only occurs in first-person view; heck, [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:National_Revolutionary_Police_Force_member_Operation_40_BO.JPG just see] how the Cuban police officers are seen firing their ASPs in a level set in 1961; seems a bit far-fetched, don't ya think? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:47, 4 November 2018 (EST)
On another note, just talking about all these things in the game:
''"We use a lot of gun reference materials and spend a lot of time researching pre-production weapons. We basically make a list of every gun even remotely near our time period, some before some after – '''because if it's a prototype weapon you don't know what year it was introduced'''. And if you're an SOG officer, you're the perfect person to test these weapons."''
Bravo. Seriously, I even like it. These guys say that "oh, how we explore all this", but they don't even know when this or that weapon was created. On their spot, I would just honestly admit: "well, we just go to the Google Pictures, typing "weapons prototypes", and chose those we liked without thinking about anything," rather than trying to make a good face over a bad game. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 10:41, 22 May 2019 (EDT)
== Quality Image Dump Part 2: Electric Boogaloo ==
I'm about to upload some new images for this page, anyone is free to start putting them onto the page as they wish.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:09, 9 January 2019 (EST)
I'll start putting them on soon. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:37, 9 January 2019 (EST)
:[[File:CODBO BrowningMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]] What is this machine gun? I know I've seen Browning M2 style machine guns with that barrel stabilizer but I can't figure out which one it is for the life of me.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:51, 9 January 2019 (EST)
::I also stumbled upon the same strange gun when researching the vehicle it's mounted on but didn't find anything. The vehicle is a Vietnam War gun truck and these appear to have been armed with pretty standard weaponry, M60 and M2s, nothing out of the ordinary. I don't know why but I have the feeling it's some kind of water cannon maybe modeled after something used in anti war protests of the period. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 14:05, 10 January 2019 (EST)
OK. I did the image replacements for the lower-quality sections. For the rest though, sometimes I will find an image that I don't know how to caption, and other times I feel like you've missed some important images (like the idle state image for the one-handed ASP), so I don't feel that confident going through the edit just yet. Can you help with adding some of the sections and maybe check if I missed any important images? Thanks. (and maybe check if I missed any images for your MW2 uploads too)
In the end though I do expect all of the old images and the old non 16:9 images to be completely replaced. (the TT-33 images for example are 1,440 × 900, which is 16:10)--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 20:03, 11 January 2019 (EST)
:OK, I have a little trouble figuring out which of those images are 16:10 so let me know which others need replacement. I'll be going through a lot of the uploads though, thanks for your help.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:33, 12 January 2019 (EST)
A suggestion: when screencapping scope reticles, you should aim at bright areas to make the reticle contrast more strongly with the background. Currently some of your scope images (SVD, PSG-1) have very dark or confusing backgrounds that makes it harder to see the reticle. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:40, 12 January 2019 (EST)
:Yeah I'll get better versions for those two, I usually try to do that with ADS images so every detail is easy to make out.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:53, 12 January 2019 (EST)
Apparently the page had received an overhaul, as there were some gaps in the page. That's fine and much appreciated, but oddly the fact that the Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" is anachronistic has been removed. Well, in case it was due to a lack of information on production dates, I found this site that provides information (with a source) on the serial number ranges for all shotguns made by the Ithaca Gun Co, and apparently the Stakeout was made from 1981 starting in the 371xxxxxxHG** range, to 1993, with the last serial number ending around 372000533. Just though this might be useful. As such, a sawn off Remington Model 870, sawn off Stevens 620A or a Model 37 S-Prefix "Trench gun" would probably suit the 1960s timeline better.
https://ithacagun.com/serial-numbers/
:Thanks for the info; such input is much appreciated. One thing, though: make sure to sign your talk page posts, by typing "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" without the quotes, or by hitting the pencil icon at the top-left of the editing box. Just a heads-up. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 15:50, 25 April 2019 (EDT)
== AR-18 ==
Just started work on a video project centering around this game, and while taking a close look at the intro cutscene to the "Operation 40" level, I noticed there's a brief glimpse of a guy [https://i.imgur.com/fOqXPRY.jpg training with an AR-18]. The guy to his right looks to be using an M1 Carbine with the post-war upgrades as well. Didn't know whether to put it on the main page or in the misc section here. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 16:36, 8 May 2019 (EDT)
:Absolutely, it deserves a spot on the main page - the ''BOII'' page has a section for [[L85A2]]s that only appear in a cutscene, after all. Nice find. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:45, 8 May 2019 (EDT)
::IMO I think images of stock footage weapons should have their own section, like what I did with the RPD and M79 down at the bottom. It looks kind of misleading to see the AR-18 listed in the Table of Contents at the top of the page when it is not actually a usable weapon in the game. Also, the Crossbow also listed on the bottom is apparently made from an AR-18 lower receiver anyway, so we could merge the entries. That's my two cents --[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:39, 17 May 2019 (EDT)
:::I support merging the stock footage weapons into their own section. However, I don't support merging the AR-18 with the Crossbow, due to their vastly different mechanisms. What do you think, Kadorhal? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 17:33, 17 May 2019 (EDT)
== M1911 one handed rack ==
I'm curious about the way the character racks the slide with one hand. According to some random dudes that's "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkwhTTwKmJg Physically impossible]" so my question is, are they right? --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 21:53, 14 May 2019 (EDT)
:Well, [http://youtu.be/-E-FxtDJLAk?t=75 at least with a single pistol] it's possible. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 01:57, 15 May 2019 (EDT)
::Very nice! Even though I'm pretty sure actual operators wouldn't employ it in an actual combat yet it's still cool. Interestingly, the character in BO3 also does it with his cybernetic arms which I suppose would be even more easier and efficient. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 19:58, 15 May 2019 (EDT)
:::I've read somewhere that soldiers have been trained to do it that way in case of injury, and Treyarch took the inspiration from this, although I don't know if it's exactly the case. On another note, you also have the [http://youtu.be/fOrYM-nuBO4 one-handed press check]. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:42, 19 May 2019 (EDT)
::::On other videos I've also seen them recommend in case of injury to press the front of the slide against a wall or something or to clutch it between your thighs. But I gotta give props to Treyarch, they somehow managed to find the tacticoolest and rarest one handed reload haha the video you provided is literally the only place I've seen it IRL. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 19:19, 19 May 2019 (EDT)
:::::In fairness though (I should have mentioned it much earlier but I forgot), the guy in the video was just releasing the slide with that technique, and not pulling it back from its original position as in BO1 and BO3. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the latter were possible IRL. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:22, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
== Question about Spetnatz's Guns ==
I was wondering, if there proofs that Soviet Armed Forces used Warsaw Pact guns like [[PM-63]], [[Vz. 61 Skorpion]],AMD-63, etc? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 04:30, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
::I doubt it. Firstly, they were brand new weapons when BO takes place and as we know, it takes some time before a new weapon goes into widespread use. Secondly, the Soviets had a very strong arms industry on their own so it wouldn't make sense for them to use Warsaw Pact guns even though I presume they could have obtained them easily. But we must also take into account that in BO they even use NATO weaponry from the future so this makes it an alternate reality anyway. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 18:21, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
What do you mean by spetsnaz? Ordinary troops, of course not. But the Alpha antiterror group used Scorpion, although they did not exist until 1974. If we mean the special OGPU/NKVD/KGB units, then they used everything they wanted, including American submachine guns, sniper rifles, etc., without worrying about their origin (the USSR in general was extremely double-minded in this regard, not hesitating to buy anything from its "enemies", if they don't have it yourself; and this tendency, I will tell you in confidence, is still relevant), just in the best spirit of these very video games. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 19:34, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
:Kiparis, by the way, was developed under the direct impression by the Scorpion, but was not put into use, as it was replaced by the AKS-74U for the unification of ammo and spare parts. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 12:55, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
==Do we really need all the alternative options?==
While these alternative options provide some interesting historical context, do we really need all of them? Some of the alternatives are becoming more and more fringe and are degenerating into speculation on what the developers intended a weapon to be, and some of the suggestions I just find are plain unnecessary, like suggesting alternatives for the Minigun. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 16:01, 28 May 2019 (EDT)
:While I certainly agree that stuff like the minigun is kinda beyond saving, I think that the alternatives should definitely stay. There are a few that are a bit... out there, sure, but for the most part, they provide interesting historical and technical information, introduce people to guns they might not've been familiar with, and makes the page seem more constructive. If anything, I'd been thinking about adding these sorts of notes to other pages; it lets us teach not only what's wrong, but what's right. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:27, 28 May 2019 (EDT) P.S.: Man, did that last bit sound pretentious. I'm sorry to everybody that had to read that, but the point still stands.
:: The point is to ID the weapons used - that means describing what's there, not rambling about what isn't. Anything that is speculation or supposition should be done away with. As for any (actually accurate) technical or historical info, some is fine but at a certain point it's too much and comes off as overly encyclopedic.. and we're not supposed to be a gun encyclopedia. At the very least keep any factual 'should be' details simple and again factual; leave out anything along the lines of 'it could be..'. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:41, 28 May 2019 (EDT)
:::Yeah, some recent additions were pushing it a bit, but notable/accurate alternatives (such as the Stechkin APS, S&W Model 39, Sa vz. 23, Ithaca 37 Trench Gun, Remington 1100, SA-7 Grail, XM191, etc.) should definitely be kept. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:59, 29 May 2019 (EDT)
::::In addition, I think that for Vietnam, Stevens 77E would be an even more suitable choice (and some of them - this is interesting - subsequently ended up in the USSR). However, I am afraid to once again clutter up the article, so I will leave it at your discretion. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:54, 27 June 2020 (EDT)
== PK-AV ==
I think this designation refers to the PK-A Venezuela contract variant, which has an Aimpoint-looking battery slot along the bottom left side of the optic that isn't present on the in-game model; I think it should probably just be listed as "PK-A."--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:15, 4 December 2020 (EST) EDIT - nevermind, "PK-AV" must be the translation of "ПK-AB," but the sight still looks more like the basic PK-A or whatever it is rather than that variant.
:Done. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 20:57, 17 August 2022 (EDT)
An AR-15A3 model, use in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, was used to test the "Commando". It was incorrectly referred to as the M4A1 Carbine, just like the previous Call of Duty game. The Commando was referred to as the "M4A1 Carbine" in the game files.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingA player about to fire his RPG-7 as he gives a sneak peak at a faction that did not make it into the final game. The all powerful Best Buy faction.Error creating thumbnail: File missingJimmy Kimmel (yes that Jimmy Kimmel) is about to fire the RPG-7. He humorously falls on his ass due to the back blast.
This section covers other throwables and melee weapons.
Semtex Grenades
Semtex Grenades return from Modern Warfare 2.
Decoy Grenades
What appears to be improvised grenades made out of rifle rounds can be used to create a decoy on enemy radars.
Tomahawk (Strider Hatchet)
The Tomahawk is a thrown weapon occupying the lethal grenade slot, serving the same role as the throwing knife from Modern Warfare 2 in multiplayer. In singleplayer, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it. It is based on the medium variant of the Strider Hatchet and is anachronistic. An M-1910 hand axe would have been more appropriate.
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body. Even though the ballistic knife does not appear in single player, its appearance in multiplayer could be seen as anachronistic, as the ballistic knife was not developed until the early 1980's. A weird choice could have been a some type of VC spring pointed stick (VC uses stick to create weapons, including crossbows).
The ballistic knife in game also has an unrealistically long range, the real ballistic knife has a maximum range of only twenty to thirty feet while the blades in game travels near infinitely in an arc.
The Rambo II inspired knife returns in Black Ops. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.
Even if the fact that this particular knife wasn't actually used by the military is ignored, its appearance in the 60s would be technically anachronistic since it was developed for the 1985 movie Rambo: First Blood Part II.
The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta". It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. Blood can be seen on the blade from stabbing the prison guard earlier, which gives some detail.
The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the mission "Executive Order". It is used to kill a Soviet soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw. It is based on the Emerson Karambit Fixed Blade which makes it heavily anachronistic as Emerson Knives was founded in 1996.
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the Mason in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is used. It is based on Randall Model 14 "Attack" with sawteeth and a micarta handle.
The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Zombies maps "Der Riese", "Kino der Toten" and "Five". Gameplay-wise, it increases melee damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third Hellhound round.
The M1942 Machete is featured in the campaign. It is used by the Vietcong and is carried in a plastic sheath by US marines and MACV SOG operatives.
Attachments
Due to Black Ops following in the footsteps of the highly successful Modern Warfare 2 with its wide variety of attachments, the game features many anachronistic and out of place attachments. Back in the 1960s, even special forces weren't that much tactical and used relatively plain weapons with maybe just some optic at most. The attachment system of Black Ops is just an injection of modern tactical perceptions into the past.
Red Dot Sight
The Israeli Elbit Falcon sight appears as the "Red Dot Sight" for the western weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as the Falcon was produced in the 1980s. A better optic would be the Nydar Sight (1945), even though it’s only available for shotguns.
A fictionalized depiction of the Russian Kobra red dot sight appears as the "Red Dot Sight" for the Soviet weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was introduced in 1996 in reality.
The concept of red dot sights didn't exist in the 1960s an the closest thing were occluded eye gunsights such as the Singlepoint SP220 which was actually used by US special forces in the 1970s Son Tay raid.
Reflex Sight
The Swedish Aimpoint Electronic also known as Aimpoint MarkII appears as the "Reflex Sight". The Aimpoint Electronic is the first red dot sight in history. It was invented in 1974 and launched in 1975, however, that means its appearance in the 1960s is anachronistic. The Singlepoint Sight would have be the more appropriate scope as it was developed in 1968, but even then, it didn’t saw uses in Vietnam until the Son Tay Raid in November 1970.
ACOG Scope
The Colt 3×20 scope appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the western weapons. While the Colt scope was used in the Vietnam War, its appearance during the Bay of Pigs invasion is anachronistic considering that the earlier 3x20 version was developed around 1962.
The Russian PK-A appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the Soviet weapons and the Galil. However, this is heavily anachronistic considering that it was developed around 2004. The more appropriate scope could have been the PGO-7 scope (1959).
Equipping the AUG with an "ACOG Scope" turns it into an A1 version complete with a Swarovski scope, however, the entire AUG platform is anachronistic.
The XL 60 version of the SUSAT scope appears as the "ACOG Scope" for the Enfield. However, this is anachronistic considering that this iteration of the SUSAT appeared first on the XL 60 which itself was introduced after June 14, 1976. Also the left side of the scope appears to be a mirror of the right side. A slightly more appropriate scope would be the Enfield EM-2 scope (1951), though the scope itself would've be adjusted for gameplay reasons.
The actual Trijicon ACOG Scope really doesn't appear in the game, but its appearance and the term "ACOG" itself would have been heavily anachronistic since it was introduced in 1987.
Infrared Scope
The AN/PVS-3A night vision sight appears as the "Infrared Scope" for the western weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was produced circa 1970, but it was used in the Vietnam War for M16s and XM21s. It is depicted with a reticle from the AN/PVS-4 night vision scope. The older AN/PVS-2 (1967) would have been a better choice.
The NSPU 1PN34 appears as the "Infrared Scope" for the Soviet weapons. Its depiction in the 1960s is anachronistic as it was developed in the 1970s. It is depicted with its proper reticle. The NSP-2 (1957) would have been a better choice.
Both the AN/PVS-3A and NSPU 1PN34 are depicted as dual band thermal/night vision optics, which is inaccurate to the real devices which are solely night vision devices; the concept of such dual band optics is also very anachronistic, appearing in the late 2000s at the earliest with fusion devices such as the AN/PSQ-20. Weirdly enough, the night vision sight appears to be a pale blue color, resembling the image from white phosphor image intensifiers; this is also anachronistic as white phosphor image intensifiers did not exist in the 1960s, and would not come into major use until the 1990s (in applications such as the AN/AVS-9's MX-10160 intensifiers). Both the PVS-3A and 1PN34 used green phosphor intensifiers and should produce a monochrome green image accordingly.
The M41 ITAS sight on the BGM-71 TOW possesses a similar pale blue image but with no passive illumination of heat sources, which is also incorrect as TOW missile systems specifically used thermal optics (the M41 ITAS in particular is supposed to use second-generation FLIR).
Grip
The Knight's Armament vertical grip appears as the "Grip" attachment, though some SMGs use their stocks to represent the grip attachment instead. The appearance of the KAC vertical grip in the 1960s is heavily anachronistic as the KAC rail adapter system and presumably foregrip became available in 1997.
Discussion
I just realize that the BUISs on the Commando looked kinda like Troy Industry sights and they they are...backwards. They are supposed to fold back down towards you and not forward Excalibur01 (talk) 23:49, 1 April 2013 (EDT)
Regarding the HK21...
Shouldn't an HK21E that feeds from magazines be referred to as an HK11E?
As I understand the numbers: 21 = 7.62x51mm belt fed, 11 = 7.62x51mm magazine fed, 23 = 5.56x45mm belt fed and 13 = 5.56x45mm magazine fed.
The original HK21 could be adapted to feed from G3 mags or drums but I don't know if the "E" for Export models could be modded in the same way.
Is there an obvious visual difference between an HK21E with an adaptor kit and an HK11E? If so, which one is it that's in the game? Stickie (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
According to HKPro.com I was right - an HK21E adapted to fire from G3 mags or drums *is* an HK11E. I'll change the entry now. Stickie (talk) 20:33, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
From the images I get of the HK11, it has a G3-style magwell with no facility for a belt feed. If you look carefully at the in-game model of the HK21, it has a magwell but it also has a belt feed opening, so it's not right for an HK11. It also doesn't have the magazine adaptor on it that an HK21 would need to use G3 mags, so it's just wrong. Evil Tim (talk) 02:26, 11 April 2013 (EDT)
On looking at it the HK21E in this game is a bodge job. Firstly, it has the belt feed from and HK21 not an HK21E. On the original HK21 the gun had a rectangular magazine well with an open side into which was inserted either a belt feed or a flat sided mag adapter (see here, the fuller grey part in the middle is the adapter). On an HK21E the whole thing is replaced with a G3 style well, and in this case the gun does become an HK11E as this is the only difference. However the belt feed on the HK21E looks different, protruding much further out the left side of the gun and isn't as "tall" as this feed system. It uses some HK21E parts though like the stock, so it is a mess. Not to mention, as Evil Tim said, it is impossible on either gun to insert a magazine if there is a belt feed. However it is more possible on a regular HK21 as that always has a magazine well of a sort that is just blocked by the belt feed, as opposed to the HK21E where the whole thing is swapped out. --commando552 (talk) 06:04, 11 April 2013 (EDT)
Legacy zombie maps
Should we have to include the weapons from the legacy zombie maps? --Funkychinaman (talk) 14:26, 29 August 2013 (EDT)
I can only add that the WWII-guns, used in the Zombie maps, clearly taken from Wolrd at War. --Slon95 (talk) 08:42, 9 February 2016 (EST)
The square shape of the baseplate allows to identify the in-game weapon as BM-36, the predecessor of BM-37. The "PM" in the name is also incorrect because "PM" means "polkovoy minomet" ("regimental mortar"), and it was used for 120mm mortars while 82mm mortars were "BM"s ("batalyonny minomet" - "battalion mortar"). So my question: is "82-PM-37" the name used for this weapon in the game? If so, at least a clarification will be useful that the in-game image is of a different weapon. In case if the weapon is called in game with some generic name (like "a Soviet mortar"), it would be better to rename this entry. Thanks. Greg-Z (talk) 16:59, 26 October 2013 (EDT)
Enfield XL64E5
Since this page states that the weapon was produced from 1964 to 1970, then how come the weapon is described as "anachronistic" in the main article? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 11:53, 5 October 2014 (EDT)
Firstly, this was just a prototype weapon that never went into full production. Those dates are the period over which it was developed, so the prototype in this form would not be available until into the 70s whilst the level it appears in is set in 1968. Secondly, I think these dates might actually be wrong, but not sure as it is incredibly hard to come by solid data for these experimental weapons. I think that although earlier versions of the XL64 were finished in the early 70s, the final version (which was used in the NATO trials) which is depicted here, the XL64E5, was not finalised until 1976 or thereabouts. --commando552 (talk) 19:30, 5 October 2014 (EDT)
Uh okay, thanks for the info. I've added to the main page that the EM-2 would be more accurate to the game. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 05:04, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
Multiplayer set in the 1970s?
I'm playing against the bots on Berlin Wall. One of the buildings is a music store, some of the albums are labeled, "Sounds of the '70s". So, I'm assuming the multiplayer portion takes place between 1970-1975 which would make some of the anachronistic weapons unanachronistic (excluding the campaign of course.) - User:1morey November 5, 2014 1:25 PM (EST)
If they were advertising "Sounds of the '70's," I would think that's definitely proof it's NOT in the seventies. If you listen to the radio, they never refer to the current decade ("Greatest hits of the seventies, eighties, nineties, and today!"). Given the DDR flag, I'm guessing eighties. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:33, 5 November 2014 (EST)
On Stadium, there are also references to the year 1972, so it can be assumed some multiplayer maps may take place further than 1968.AgentGumby (talk) 00:53, 6 November 2014 (EST)
SVD
Is it worth mentioning that the SVD has a safety lever of an AK and that the safety is on? --CnC Fin (talk) 04:31, 27 March 2015 (EDT)
Vz 58
I really wonder why(thinking about the time when the action takes place)they didn't included a Sa. Vz. 58 used by NVA.It is pretty modern and accurate compared to an Ak 47. VLAD M (talk) 05:48, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
Pretty sure they didn't start using Vz 58s until after the Vietnam War. Spartan198 (talk) 06:37, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
GP
The GP grenade launcher doesn't have any quadrant sight in BO, unlike other CoD games. I will fix the info, but first, is it actually a GP-30? Probably yes, due to lack of support frame behind it; otherwise, we could assume that it is an actual GP-25, just like the game labels it. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:43, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
Have you checked the third person model? In Blops 2 there's no sight in first person but there is one in third. Evil Tim (talk) 08:25, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
Yeah, I checked it, and unlike BO2 the third-person model lacks the quadrant sight as well. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 10:13, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
I've changed the info on the page to GP-25. If there's anything that proves otherwise, such as the support frame stuff or something like that let us know. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:03, 15 August 2015 (EDT)
EDIT (three years later) : in addition to that component, the in-game launcher has four ribs around the barrel, in the same setup as a GP-30 (while a GP-25 has three). Therefore, I'll edit it back to GP-30. On another note, the version in CoD4, MW2, MW3, and BO2 only has two ribs, for some weird reason. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
XM21 doesn't have a pistol grip and the IR scope in Blops isn't a PVS-2. Also IIRC the PVS-2 isn't an IR scope anyway, it's an image intensifier. Evil Tim (talk) 08:17, 21 November 2015 (EST)
Weapon Sights
Considering that this game takes place in the 1960s, wouldn't it be anachronistic for red dot sights and mid-ranged optics (is the ACOG anachronistic as well?) to appear in the game? Did they really exist back in the 1960s or this game, as with most of the guns, adopt the "screw the rules, they had prototypes" attitude? - Kenny99 (talk) 19:54, 27 January 2016 (EST)
I believe most of them are anachronistic with the exception of the Colt "ACOG" 4x32 scope. The reflex sight appears to be the first Aimpoint from 1975, and I don't think the western red dot sight is even modeled on a real optic.AgentGumby (talk) 22:58, 27 January 2016 (EST)
I looked into the concept of red dot sights more closely and came across the idea of reflector sights. They apparently existed since WW2 (although they were more commonly used on machine guns, AA cannons, and ship weaponry). I read that after WW2, custom and detachable weapon sights started appearing, but most likely very obscure and not so widespread. As for Infrared scopes and such, I think Germany made detachable scopes for the StG44 during WW2, including a prototype Infrared scope called the "Vampire". Then again, I'm not so certain about the plausibility of red dot sights, "reflex sights", and Infrared scopes as well as attachable weapon mounts (such as rails) for optics. - Kenny99 (talk) 22:29, 27 January 2016 (EST)
The STG44's setup was nicknamed the "Vampyr" because Germans. The same set-up was used by the US Military in the M3 Carbine. Any rail or scope mount would have to be a custom make because Weaver Rails were still a while away. I always got the vibe with Black Ops that they intended it to be set in the 1980's, what with all the more 80's equipment, but the higher ups made them go to the Vietnam era because the Nam era is a reasonably untapped genre, like WWI or the Spanish-American War. -- PaperCake 22:47, 27 January 2016 (EST)
Don't forget this sight, it's mounted on a BAR--AnActualAK47 (talk) 01:01, 28 January 2016 (EST)
It looks similar to the Colt M933, but is an M733 with Flattop. The Commando has an Flip Up Iron Sight in the game.--Treliazz777 (talk) 12:40, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
Firstly, as far as I know there is no such thing as a Model 733 with a flat top, that is just a Model 933. What do you think the difference is? The gun in the game isn't a Model 933 or a 733 though, as regardless of the different design of rail, it also has a slickside upper receiver without a FA or BD. The closest match I can come up with would be a GAU-5A/A with a flash hider rather than the moderator (which was actually done) with a fictional/custom upper with a sight rail. --commando552 (talk) 17:37, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
c552 is right about the Model 733/Model 933 remarks. I also concur with him about the game gun most closely resembling a GAU-5/A variant. StanTheMan (talk) 01:24, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
What it really is, is a gun model made by people that don't actually know anything about guns. In video games a gun can be a whole slew of things do to a dev team's poor gun modeling skills/lack of knowledge. As evidenced by the sling that blocks the bolt release that's used in the reload animation. The main problem is that Treyarch felt the need to make it a flattop AR-15 even though they were never used or made in numbers in the 60s, why would mounting optics on a XM177 carrying handle be so bad? I agree that it seems to be a GAU-5/A with a made-up flattop upper and "filled in" flash hider, I also noticed it has partial magazine fencing too. Mr. Wolf (talk) 01:43, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
There were experimental flat-top carbines back then, but as you said they were never actually used or issued. That said, I agree there's nothing wrong with actually having optics on the carry handle - indeed that was the case for the longest time. But it evidently doesn't follow their own rigidly self-imposed aesthetic for the game weapons. StanTheMan (talk) 17:32, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
The AR pictured above isn't exactly an M933, it looks like someone built themselves a lookalike. It has an A1 profile barrel, older slimline handguards, and no bayonet lug. A true M933 is simply an M4A1 with an 11.5" barrel, retaining the thicker barrel width, double heat shield handguards, and FSP with bayonet lug. That said, however, the Commando in this game is pure fictional franken gun, simply a way for Treyarch to include a "SOPMOD" AR long before the M4 was ever invented and justifying it with the weak excuse that "SOG can get whatever they want". Spartan198 (talk) 06:34, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
The Colt carbines are kind of a crap-shoot in regards to what features they have, with the 933 being available with or without a bayonet lug, A1 or A2 profile barrel, and either handguard. Here is another 933 with no lug, an A1 barrel, slim handguards and the M4 style stock, and here is one to the same spec but with the wide handguards. From what I have seen it seems that the thin barrel and no bayonet lug is the most common option (which makes the most sense as this features are pretty useless on a barrel of this length). I believe that all of these images (including the original posted above) are real Colt weapons advertised on Autoweapons. --commando552 (talk)
So I think it could be an GAU-5/A with Flash Hider.--Treliazz777 (talk) 10:25, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
No, the GAU-5/A is a different gun with a 10" barrel, the game gun has a longer barrel more like the 11.5" barrel of the GAU-5A/A. This is the gun that you pictured above (which I have properly renamed as the image name was totally nonsensical). Also, when posting images use the code that I have changed it to above so that it is a thumbnail that can have a descriptive caption. --commando552 (talk) 12:29, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
I've rewritten the Commando section to try and have it make some sort of sense, and I noticed that there is an image where it is fitted with optics and has the front sight present (albeit vertically stunted) and the caption reads "Suppressed Colt Commando with Kobra sight. Note clan tag engraved on the charging handle. Also note that, unlike in the released game, the front sight is still present". Anybody know where this is from? Is it early promotional footage or from a beta or what? --commando552 (talk) 13:06, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
I think the reason why it has a removable carry handle because Treyarch do the same Flip up sights to the Enfield, Famas, G11, Aug, and M60. So if these Iron Sight were not in the game, than the Commando would have the M16's Iron sights.--Treliazz777 (talk) 13:32, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
Someone who's not on IMFDB told me that he believes that the Commando is exactly the GAU-5A/A configuration about the USAF flash hider in place of the moderator) "and the flat-topped receiver is not fictional but what appears to be a chopped off carry handle with a bolted on rail. According to this discussion, this was done in the late 80s and early 90s before the introduction of actual flat-topped receivers. That is also the case with the M16 when mounted with sight attachments apparently. While the article mentions the Model 656 receiver as some kind of justification for the flat-topped receiver actually that's not the case as the BO version is just a chopped off version and this is yet another anachronism". Ideas? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:17, 15 July 2017 (EDT)
I swear that everything in this game makes me think they intended it to be set in the 1980's rather than the 1960's. The story about brain-washing and rogue Soviet soldiers feels like a cheesy Cannon Films B movie rather than a 1960's set story. The inclusion of several 80's guns over the more proper arsenal that has already been established by previous games like Vietcong seem to back that theory up. Even the Vietnam elements feel more like 1980's CIA shittery than 1960's. I have no leads on the development team, but it feels like the game was intended to be in the 1980's and was just shifted over to the 60's last minute, which could explain how almost every gun is an anachronism. --PaperCake 14:26, 15 July 2017 (EST)
Or the 1990's. Plus missions like "Executive Order" takes place in 1963, but in realism, it takes place in 1988. The mission "Rebirth" takes place in 1968, but it suppose to takes place in 1989. The mission "Numbers" takes place in 1968, but for realism, it takes place in 1990, and the mission "WMD" take place in 1968, but it should take place in 1997, which is 6 years after the cold war. Back to the Commando, I just figure out about the model. Treyarch wanted to make this gun like a combination with the older CAR-15s and the M4. The flattop rail was based on the MIL-STD-1913 scope rail, which never used in CAR-15s. When you look at the Commando on the E3 Demo, you can see the MIL-STD-1913 scope rail. The Troy Battle Sights was a modern 2000's sight, and the M203 was model after the M203A1. Black Ops was not suppose to go realism, but it was suppose to be more wacky unlike the Modern Warfare Series. Now, I heard rumors saying that the next Black Ops game was going to be a Vietnam Setting, but not as a wacky game, but focus on realism.--Treliazz (talk) 10:05, 30 July 2019 (EDT)
Red Dot Sights
Originally the RDS were Korba Sights, but on the AK47, AK-74U, and on the RPK, the RDS looks different. I trying to figure what kind of RDS it is.--Treliazz (talk) 16:23, 10 July 2016 (EDT)
Commando Discussion
I read the Topic, and I'm kinda want to search up some Variants of the Commando:
XM177 Shorty (XM177 Short Barrel with A1 Flash Hider)
GAU-5AA (On Topic)
Colt 733 (M16A2/M4 Commando)
Colt 933 (M4 Commando)
Crossfire has the same gun (But a XM177 Flash Hider), and it's based on the Commando in Black Ops, and it was refer as M4 Commando (Also they have an XM177 with flattop).
The M60, Enfield, G11, AUG, Famas has the same iron sights. So Colt 933 can't count (Plus the optics on the M16 has a flattop, so that could be like the commando).
Honestly, I don't think this is a GAU-5AA, because I don't see why is it this gun.
In my theory, this might be a Fictional XM177 with A1 Flash Hider.--Treliazz777 (talk) 02:49, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
XM177 is just the name used for the CAR-15 in US military use in Vietnam, a "fiction XM177 variant" is a CAR-15 variant.
Also, it would not be remotely realistic for the CIA to be using MP40s in the 1960s, or the Soviet Union to be using PPShs in the 1960s, and the AKMS doesn't fit as a substitute for a shortened AK because it's full-length. The RPG-7, meanwhile, entered service in 1958, which was before the Cuban Missile Crisis: it just didn't see combat until Vietnam in real life. Evil Tim (talk) 04:18, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
Okay, I could agree with you, The RPG-7 was started in 1958, but it was in service in 1961 by the Soviets. In Cuba, the weapons were the FAL and some WW2 and Korean War Weapons. The RPG-7 first war was the Vietnam War, and it was use by the North Vietnamese and the VC in 1967. I was going to remove the WAW Gun, because it's not like realistic. I don't know the Commando is close to the GAU-5AA, I had to be honest.--Treliazz777 (talk) 05:19, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
To clarify why the GAU-5A/A is stated as the closest match, the reason is that it has the combination of a slickside upper and an 11.5" barrel. The XM177 has a shorter 10" barrel, whilst the XM177E2 has an A1 upper with a forward assist. If you don't know what I mean by this, check out the Colt AR-15 Identification Guide. --commando552 (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2017 (EDT)
The in-game gun also appears to have a partial fence on the lower receiver (not a full one), which indeed matches the GAU-5A/A reference image that we have on the main page. By the way, the majority of the GAU-5A/A images that I found online have full fence lowers, while our reference image (with the moderator replaced) is an exception; are there any other images out there with partial fence lowers? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:30, 6 October 2020 (EDT)
Models
I was looking though some models for the AUG, M14, WA2000, and M60. I don't know if it's based on the models from 007 QoS.--Treliazz777 (talk) 23:45, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
The silly ray gun doesn't really qualify for inclusion. Evil Tim (talk) 14:28, 14 August 2018 (EDT)
Two-handed pistol shooting
Is it period accurate to see the two-handed technique being used by almost all characters between 1961 and 1968 in the game? I'm reading that it was invented in 1959 (in this specific case the Weaver stance), but I wonder how much time it took for the technique to have become widespread enough. I suppose that if it became quickly popular, this would have been reflected in the movies of that era, which is not the case, as in a significant number of 1960s-1970s movies the handguns are still held with one hand (well, not all filmmakers must have automatically become familiar with the new stance, but still). There are some exceptions, but in these specific cases it's because the character is practice firing and not participating in actual combat; here's an example (that's one of the earliest media appearances that I know regarding two-handed firing). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:37, 27 October 2018 (EDT)
So, the Weaver stance is not the first two-handed technique. But then my original question still stands, being whether the two-handed grip in general (not necessarily the Weaver) was used frequently enough in combat during the 1960s or not (as in, not merely for training purposes), and if it would have been more appropriate to see one-handed shooting for most part. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:21, 28 October 2018 (EDT)
I think we can't say if one technique was used more or less back then, all we can do is acknowledge if the given method existed. You see, it's a personal preference, as we can see in the WW2 training video, the two handed stance is more useful when crouching while one handed might have its benefits when standing so really it is a very situational thing. Also bear in mind that COD doesn't even try to portray such details in a realistic manner, I'm pretty sure that their inspiration comes from movies like Platoon or Full Metal Jacket. Considering that BO actually shows both grips (the ASP is one handed) I say that they should at least get credit for portraying both techniques. On another note, I'm just rewatching Terminator 2 and noticed how the T1000 was firing his gun one handed and that made sense since having a mechanical arm would have enough strength and this takes me back to BO3 where it is quite funny how your character uses two handed grip despite having cyborg arms. --Nanomat (talk) 18:42, 29 October 2018 (EDT)
"bear in mind that COD doesn't even try to portray such details in a realistic manner"
:P Now on a more serious note, that's the thing, the two-handed technique is shown as the most widespread in the game, even when standing. Mind you, the ASP is the only pistol shown fired one-handed during normal gameplay (as in, not during some scripted campaign sequences) - except when a player is downed and his third-person model also does this on all handguns, but that's another story. The thing with the ASP is that it only occurs in first-person view; heck, just see how the Cuban police officers are seen firing their ASPs in a level set in 1961; seems a bit far-fetched, don't ya think? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:47, 4 November 2018 (EST)
On another note, just talking about all these things in the game:
"We use a lot of gun reference materials and spend a lot of time researching pre-production weapons. We basically make a list of every gun even remotely near our time period, some before some after – because if it's a prototype weapon you don't know what year it was introduced. And if you're an SOG officer, you're the perfect person to test these weapons."
Bravo. Seriously, I even like it. These guys say that "oh, how we explore all this", but they don't even know when this or that weapon was created. On their spot, I would just honestly admit: "well, we just go to the Google Pictures, typing "weapons prototypes", and chose those we liked without thinking about anything," rather than trying to make a good face over a bad game. --Slon95 (talk) 10:41, 22 May 2019 (EDT)
Quality Image Dump Part 2: Electric Boogaloo
I'm about to upload some new images for this page, anyone is free to start putting them onto the page as they wish.--AgentGumby (talk) 14:09, 9 January 2019 (EST)
I'll start putting them on soon. --Wuzh (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2019 (EST)
Error creating thumbnail: File missing What is this machine gun? I know I've seen Browning M2 style machine guns with that barrel stabilizer but I can't figure out which one it is for the life of me.--AgentGumby (talk) 21:51, 9 January 2019 (EST)
I also stumbled upon the same strange gun when researching the vehicle it's mounted on but didn't find anything. The vehicle is a Vietnam War gun truck and these appear to have been armed with pretty standard weaponry, M60 and M2s, nothing out of the ordinary. I don't know why but I have the feeling it's some kind of water cannon maybe modeled after something used in anti war protests of the period. --Nanomat (talk) 14:05, 10 January 2019 (EST)
OK. I did the image replacements for the lower-quality sections. For the rest though, sometimes I will find an image that I don't know how to caption, and other times I feel like you've missed some important images (like the idle state image for the one-handed ASP), so I don't feel that confident going through the edit just yet. Can you help with adding some of the sections and maybe check if I missed any important images? Thanks. (and maybe check if I missed any images for your MW2 uploads too)
In the end though I do expect all of the old images and the old non 16:9 images to be completely replaced. (the TT-33 images for example are 1,440 × 900, which is 16:10)--Wuzh (talk) 20:03, 11 January 2019 (EST)
OK, I have a little trouble figuring out which of those images are 16:10 so let me know which others need replacement. I'll be going through a lot of the uploads though, thanks for your help.--AgentGumby (talk) 22:33, 12 January 2019 (EST)
A suggestion: when screencapping scope reticles, you should aim at bright areas to make the reticle contrast more strongly with the background. Currently some of your scope images (SVD, PSG-1) have very dark or confusing backgrounds that makes it harder to see the reticle. --Wuzh (talk) 23:40, 12 January 2019 (EST)
Yeah I'll get better versions for those two, I usually try to do that with ADS images so every detail is easy to make out.--AgentGumby (talk) 23:53, 12 January 2019 (EST)
Apparently the page had received an overhaul, as there were some gaps in the page. That's fine and much appreciated, but oddly the fact that the Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" is anachronistic has been removed. Well, in case it was due to a lack of information on production dates, I found this site that provides information (with a source) on the serial number ranges for all shotguns made by the Ithaca Gun Co, and apparently the Stakeout was made from 1981 starting in the 371xxxxxxHG** range, to 1993, with the last serial number ending around 372000533. Just though this might be useful. As such, a sawn off Remington Model 870, sawn off Stevens 620A or a Model 37 S-Prefix "Trench gun" would probably suit the 1960s timeline better.
Thanks for the info; such input is much appreciated. One thing, though: make sure to sign your talk page posts, by typing "~~~~" without the quotes, or by hitting the pencil icon at the top-left of the editing box. Just a heads-up. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 15:50, 25 April 2019 (EDT)
AR-18
Just started work on a video project centering around this game, and while taking a close look at the intro cutscene to the "Operation 40" level, I noticed there's a brief glimpse of a guy training with an AR-18. The guy to his right looks to be using an M1 Carbine with the post-war upgrades as well. Didn't know whether to put it on the main page or in the misc section here. Kadorhal (talk) 16:36, 8 May 2019 (EDT)
Absolutely, it deserves a spot on the main page - the BOII page has a section for L85A2s that only appear in a cutscene, after all. Nice find. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2019 (EDT)
IMO I think images of stock footage weapons should have their own section, like what I did with the RPD and M79 down at the bottom. It looks kind of misleading to see the AR-18 listed in the Table of Contents at the top of the page when it is not actually a usable weapon in the game. Also, the Crossbow also listed on the bottom is apparently made from an AR-18 lower receiver anyway, so we could merge the entries. That's my two cents --AgentGumby (talk) 14:39, 17 May 2019 (EDT)
I support merging the stock footage weapons into their own section. However, I don't support merging the AR-18 with the Crossbow, due to their vastly different mechanisms. What do you think, Kadorhal? --Wuzh (talk) 17:33, 17 May 2019 (EDT)
M1911 one handed rack
I'm curious about the way the character racks the slide with one hand. According to some random dudes that's "Physically impossible" so my question is, are they right? --Nanomat (talk) 21:53, 14 May 2019 (EDT)
Very nice! Even though I'm pretty sure actual operators wouldn't employ it in an actual combat yet it's still cool. Interestingly, the character in BO3 also does it with his cybernetic arms which I suppose would be even more easier and efficient. --Nanomat (talk) 19:58, 15 May 2019 (EDT)
I've read somewhere that soldiers have been trained to do it that way in case of injury, and Treyarch took the inspiration from this, although I don't know if it's exactly the case. On another note, you also have the one-handed press check. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 16:42, 19 May 2019 (EDT)
On other videos I've also seen them recommend in case of injury to press the front of the slide against a wall or something or to clutch it between your thighs. But I gotta give props to Treyarch, they somehow managed to find the tacticoolest and rarest one handed reload haha the video you provided is literally the only place I've seen it IRL. --Nanomat (talk) 19:19, 19 May 2019 (EDT)
In fairness though (I should have mentioned it much earlier but I forgot), the guy in the video was just releasing the slide with that technique, and not pulling it back from its original position as in BO1 and BO3. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the latter were possible IRL. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
Question about Spetnatz's Guns
I was wondering, if there proofs that Soviet Armed Forces used Warsaw Pact guns like PM-63, Vz. 61 Skorpion,AMD-63, etc? --Dannyguns (talk) 04:30, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
I doubt it. Firstly, they were brand new weapons when BO takes place and as we know, it takes some time before a new weapon goes into widespread use. Secondly, the Soviets had a very strong arms industry on their own so it wouldn't make sense for them to use Warsaw Pact guns even though I presume they could have obtained them easily. But we must also take into account that in BO they even use NATO weaponry from the future so this makes it an alternate reality anyway. --Nanomat (talk) 18:21, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
What do you mean by spetsnaz? Ordinary troops, of course not. But the Alpha antiterror group used Scorpion, although they did not exist until 1974. If we mean the special OGPU/NKVD/KGB units, then they used everything they wanted, including American submachine guns, sniper rifles, etc., without worrying about their origin (the USSR in general was extremely double-minded in this regard, not hesitating to buy anything from its "enemies", if they don't have it yourself; and this tendency, I will tell you in confidence, is still relevant), just in the best spirit of these very video games. --Slon95 (talk) 19:34, 23 May 2019 (EDT)
Kiparis, by the way, was developed under the direct impression by the Scorpion, but was not put into use, as it was replaced by the AKS-74U for the unification of ammo and spare parts. --Slon95 (talk) 12:55, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
Do we really need all the alternative options?
While these alternative options provide some interesting historical context, do we really need all of them? Some of the alternatives are becoming more and more fringe and are degenerating into speculation on what the developers intended a weapon to be, and some of the suggestions I just find are plain unnecessary, like suggesting alternatives for the Minigun. --Wuzh (talk) 16:01, 28 May 2019 (EDT)
While I certainly agree that stuff like the minigun is kinda beyond saving, I think that the alternatives should definitely stay. There are a few that are a bit... out there, sure, but for the most part, they provide interesting historical and technical information, introduce people to guns they might not've been familiar with, and makes the page seem more constructive. If anything, I'd been thinking about adding these sorts of notes to other pages; it lets us teach not only what's wrong, but what's right. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 16:27, 28 May 2019 (EDT) P.S.: Man, did that last bit sound pretentious. I'm sorry to everybody that had to read that, but the point still stands.
The point is to ID the weapons used - that means describing what's there, not rambling about what isn't. Anything that is speculation or supposition should be done away with. As for any (actually accurate) technical or historical info, some is fine but at a certain point it's too much and comes off as overly encyclopedic.. and we're not supposed to be a gun encyclopedia. At the very least keep any factual 'should be' details simple and again factual; leave out anything along the lines of 'it could be..'. StanTheMan (talk) 22:41, 28 May 2019 (EDT)
Yeah, some recent additions were pushing it a bit, but notable/accurate alternatives (such as the Stechkin APS, S&W Model 39, Sa vz. 23, Ithaca 37 Trench Gun, Remington 1100, SA-7 Grail, XM191, etc.) should definitely be kept. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 09:59, 29 May 2019 (EDT)
In addition, I think that for Vietnam, Stevens 77E would be an even more suitable choice (and some of them - this is interesting - subsequently ended up in the USSR). However, I am afraid to once again clutter up the article, so I will leave it at your discretion. --Slon95 (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2020 (EDT)
PK-AV
I think this designation refers to the PK-A Venezuela contract variant, which has an Aimpoint-looking battery slot along the bottom left side of the optic that isn't present on the in-game model; I think it should probably just be listed as "PK-A."--AgentGumby (talk) 11:15, 4 December 2020 (EST) EDIT - nevermind, "PK-AV" must be the translation of "ПK-AB," but the sight still looks more like the basic PK-A or whatever it is rather than that variant.
Done. --Nanomat (talk) 20:57, 17 August 2022 (EDT)
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