Talk:Carnivores: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 00:44, 8 July 2015

Rifle

I looked all over, and wasn't able to find a match for that rifle, but it looks very much like a Dragunov or a variant, but that stock... I'm not sure. Any help? I'm positive the handguard has had the "holes" edited out, but again, maybe I'm wrong. --Clonehunter (talk) 00:28, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

It's one of the civilian Tigr versions. A Tigr-03 would be the closest, if not, the exact match, judging from a little snooping around. The (Monte Carlo style) solid hunting stock, handguard without vents and the shortened carbine barrel all match up pretty well. --BeloglaviSup (talk) 03:27, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Oh, thanks a lot! Aah, that looks familiar, but otherwise I didn't know anything about it. And so nothing in the image was really modified. But the Tigr versions don't seem to be listed on the site (Or rather it just redirects to SVD Dragunov). --Clonehunter (talk) 10:29, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Sans the, frankly, relatively rare Mone Carlo styled stock, and a longer barrel the Tigr image on the site is pretty representative for the type 3 model (chambered in 7.62x54R). In fact, despite lacking a scope, this image seems to be an almost exact match of the in-game's sniper rifle. Interestingly, the newest HD remake also features a sniper rifle, though this time it is a high caliber bolt action, seemingly based on the AW50 rifle. --BeloglaviSup (talk) 11:43, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

I have yet to get the new one, but that's a pretty neat find. As for the Tigr, where were they most prominent? Action Forms is a Ukrainian developer. I wonder if they actually obtained one of the rifles or, since they don't model the weapon, did they just use an image of the weapon they found somewhere. In which case, my other finalist for the shotgun was actually a Baikal MP-133 with a heat shield, which also somewhat fits AF's origins. The small image and the fact we can only see the top of the weapon makes it a bit difficult to be sure. Naturally, I don't know if the MP-133s are ever seen with Heat shields. --Clonehunter (talk) 12:05, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Tigr rifles entered serial production, according to Wikipedia, in 1992. Technically, commercial Dragunovs in form of the Tigr series were somewhere from the 80s, perhaps mid-to-late 70s (not entirely sure), but due to USSR gun laws, these were very limited in production. Primary market for Tigr rifles, as with many Russian arms, is the alluring American civilian market (hence the year serial production went full steam), but they are still very rare. Seems like most rifles on the US market come with either the original wooden thumb hole stock or the new, synthetic military style stock. The Monte Carlo styled wooden stocks are comparatively rare, and to be honest, all of the steadily available examples of this configuration come from promotional material or gun shows.

Technically there is a possibility the development team, or someone within, had an experience with the weapon, considering the ownership of semi automatic firearms isn't prohibited in Ukraine (at least from what I've checked, again, on Wikipedia), but I find that highly doubtful. In fact, considering how much aberrations stand between the rather generic in-game model and the selection screen picture, I'd wager the wasn't much connection between them during the development, and that later probably came into consideration long after the models were made. What I'm saying is, instead of basing the models on existing firearms, they probably just found the generic firearms to serve as best representative for the in-game variants.

Regarding the shotgun, it's mostly surely a Mossberg, at least on the selection screen. In fact, I'd be damned, but I'm pretty sure it's the exact same picture used. The Baikal connection is an interesting proposal, so I tried to find as best of a match as I could, and this is the best I could do with. I don't believe the shotgun was ever serially manufactured with a heat shield, due to it being (intended, at least) a strictly civilian firearm. --BeloglaviSup (talk) 15:07, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Carnivores was definitely a budget title game, as I doubt Action Forms made much off of their first game, Chasm: The Rift (Which was/is even derided as a "Poor Man's Quake"), so yah, you're probably right in that them affording actual weapons to model off of is a scant chance, especially seeing that the sniper rifle is only a scope in game, so they probably chose a picture of a Tigr that they thought looked cool. All speculation of course, but it's probably not far off.

Yah, and if the Bakail wasn't sold with heat shields, then it probably isn't. It's hard to tell how much the shotgun was really modeled after a real weapon (The model does have a heat shield textured on to it, however), but they may have done it simply from a picture. The other reason I brought up the Bakail, though, was the caps on the stocks seem to match, with that ribbing look. Thanks for the information and digging, it's very interesting information! --Clonehunter (talk) 20:42, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

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 :It's one of the civilian Tigr versions. A Tigr-03 would be the closest, if not, the exact match, judging from a little snooping around. The (''Monte Carlo'' style) solid hunting stock, handguard without vents and the shortened carbine barrel all [http://www.dragunov.net/tiger/tigr_464_vmak_500x.jpg match up pretty well]. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:27, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
-::Aah, that looks familiar, but otherwise I didn't know anything about it. And so nothing in the image was really modified. But the Tigr versions don't seem to be listed on the site (Or rather it just redirects to SVD Dragunov). --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 10:29, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
+::Oh, thanks a lot! Aah, that looks familiar, but otherwise I didn't know anything about it. And so nothing in the image was really modified. But the Tigr versions don't seem to be listed on the site (Or rather it just redirects to SVD Dragunov). --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 10:29, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
+:::Sans the, frankly, relatively rare Mone Carlo styled stock, and a longer barrel the Tigr image on the site is pretty representative for the type 3 model (chambered in 7.62x54R). In fact, despite lacking a scope, [http://www.orb2000.ru/files/tigr_03.jpg this image] seems to be an almost exact match of the in-game's sniper rifle. Interestingly, the newest HD remake also [http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/carnivores/images/a/a0/Sniper_rifle.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131222042252 features a sniper rifle], though this time it is a high caliber bolt action, seemingly based on the [http://www.imfdb.org/images/2/2c/AW50_%28Latest_Version%29.jpg AW50 rifle]. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 11:43, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
+::::I have yet to get the new one, but that's a pretty neat find. As for the Tigr, where were they most prominent? Action Forms is a Ukrainian developer. I wonder if they actually obtained one of the rifles or, since they don't model the weapon, did they just use an image of the weapon they found somewhere. In which case, my other finalist for the shotgun was actually a [[Baikal MP-133]] with a heat shield, which also somewhat fits AF's origins. The small image and the fact we can only see the top of the weapon makes it a bit difficult to be sure. Naturally, I don't know if the MP-133s are ever seen with Heat shields.  --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 12:05, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
+:::::Tigr rifles entered serial production, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle#Commercial_variants according to Wikipedia], in 1992. Technically, commercial Dragunovs in form of the Tigr series were somewhere from the 80s, perhaps mid-to-late 70s (not entirely sure), but due to USSR gun laws, these were very limited in production. Primary market for Tigr rifles, as with many Russian arms, is the alluring American civilian market (hence the year serial production went full steam), but they are still very rare. Seems like [http://www.dragunov.net/tiger.html most rifles on the US market] come with either the original wooden thumb hole stock or the new, synthetic military style stock. The Monte Carlo styled wooden stocks are comparatively rare, and to be honest, all of the steadily available examples of this configuration come from promotional material or gun shows.
+:::::Technically there ''is'' a possibility the development team, or someone within, had an experience with the weapon, considering the ownership of semi automatic firearms isn't prohibited in Ukraine (at least from what I've checked, again, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Ukraine on Wikipedia]), but I find that ''highly'' doubtful. In fact, considering how much aberrations stand between the rather generic in-game model and the selection screen picture, I'd wager the wasn't much connection between them during the development, and that later probably came into consideration long after the models were made.  What I'm saying is, instead of basing the models on existing firearms, they probably just found the generic firearms to serve as best representative for the in-game variants.
+:::::Regarding the shotgun, it's mostly surely a Mossberg, at least on the selection screen. In fact, I'd be damned, but I'm pretty sure it's ''the'' exact same picture used. The Baikal connection is an interesting proposal, so I tried to find as best of a match as I could, and this is the [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh48/mp133-1.jpg best I could do] with. I don't believe the shotgun was ever serially manufactured with a heat shield, due to it being (intended, at least) a strictly civilian firearm. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:07, 7 July 2015 (EDT)
+::::::Carnivores was definitely a budget title game, as I doubt Action Forms made much off of their first game, ''Chasm: The Rift'' (Which was/is even derided as a "Poor Man's Quake"), so yah, you're probably right in that them affording actual weapons to model off of is a scant chance, especially seeing that the sniper rifle is only a scope in game, so they probably chose a picture of a Tigr that they thought looked cool. All speculation of course, but it's probably not far off.
+::::::Yah, and if the Bakail wasn't sold with heat shields, then it probably isn't. It's hard to tell how much the shotgun was really modeled after a real weapon (The model does have a heat shield textured on to it, however), but they may have done it simply from a picture. The other reason I brought up the Bakail, though, was the caps on the stocks seem to match, with that ribbing look. Thanks for the information and digging, it's very interesting information! --[[User:Clonehunter|Clonehunter]] ([[User talk:Clonehunter|talk]]) 20:42, 7 July 2015 (EDT)

Talk:Carnivores: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 00:44, 8 July 2015

Rifle

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