Latest revision as of 20:10, 27 November 2023

VPO-302 - 7.62x39mm/.366 TKM/ 6.5 Grendel. A civilian version of the AKM with a special three barrels of different calibers. To change the caliber, you only need to change the barrel to the desired one. Included are three barrels for calibers 7.62x39mm;.366 TKM; 6.5 Grendel

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Vepr-KM (VPO-136) - Civilian version of AKM - 7.62x39mm

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VPO-209 - .366 TKM. This is a smoothbore semi-automatic civilian version of the AKM (with "paradox rifling" on the last 120mm of the barrel) sold in Russia under the shotgun license.

Customized Variants

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AK-47 with a AR-15 stock and a synthetic handguard - 7.62x39mm

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Century Arms C39 V2 fitted with Magpul MOE Furniture - 7.62x39mm

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Unknown AK with the Magpul MOE pistol grip, stock and handguard - 7.62x39mm

Bullpup AK Conversions

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AKM in Centre Balanced Systems stock - 7.62x39mm

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AK rifles mounted in Kochevnik bullpup kit (early model).

Other Variants

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Century Arms RAS47 - 7.62x39mm

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Chechen AK derivative using welded-together SVD magazines - (presumably) 7.62x54mm R

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Wieger StG-940 - 5,56×45mm

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KK-MPi-69 - .22 LR

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Century Arms C39V2 SBR - 7.62x39mm

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Century Arms VSKA AK47 - 7.62x39mm

Carbine Variants

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East German MPi-AKM-K - 7.62x39mm

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Diseños Casanave SC-2026C - 7.62x39mm

Replicas

Airsoft

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Airsoft AKM replica

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Airsoft AK-47 replica without stock - (fake) 7.62x39mm

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Airsoft LCT AKM

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Airsoft Cybergun AK-47

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King Arms AK74 Tapco Folding Stock - Similar to the customized AKM seen in Season 2 of Nikita.

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CYMA P1093-S Blue

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Airsoft SRC Limited Edition Full Metal 24K Gold Plated AK47-S Airsoft AEG

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Spring A King AK 47 airsoft gun

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UTG 47SA WarHawk spring airsoft rifle

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Airsoft AKS-47.

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CYMA AK-47 Tactical RIS AEG.

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Customized Tokyo Marui AK-47.

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Jing Gong Black AK-47

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Airsoft AKM with FAB Defence stock

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CYMA CM.028C AEG.

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Airsoft AK-47 with Magpul CTR buttstock

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Airsoft Arcturus CT02 Centaur

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Tokyo Marui White Storm NGRS AEG (Right side).

Non-Firing

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Denix Gold AK-47

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SECPRO Dummy AK-47

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AKS-47 rubber prop

Photoshopped

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Photoshopped AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and an M4 buttstock and Stock Adapter, to look like the weapon in Modern Warfare 2 - 7.62x39mm

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Photoshopped AK-47 with synthetic M4 style stock, pistol grip and handguard, AK-74 style muzzle brake, and side mounted RIS rail as seen in Modern Warfare 3 - 7.62x39mm

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Converted AKM pistol ("AKMSU" on IMFDB) with stock removed - 7.62x39mm

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AKM mocked up to resemble the AKS-74 - 7.62x39mm

Screen-Used

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Maadi ARM (AKM) - 7.62x39mm as used in Red Dawn (1984) (image from Long Mountain Outfitters)

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Custom-built gold-plated AK carbine from Lord of War - 7.62x39mm

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Maadi ARM - most of the AKMs seen in movies during the 1980s were imported ARMs that were legally converted to full auto fire. This image is of an actual movie gun. The laminated buttstock was replaced with a hardwood one when the original stock was broken during a stunt. This example is also loaded with a 30-round Bakelite plastic magazine - 7.62x39mm

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Two AKM rifles (at the top) used in The Fate of the Furious. The first one is fitted with a Magpul MOE handguard, a Magpul Zhukov buttstock and an AK-74 style muzzle brake. Image courtesy of Xtreme Props.

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Modified AK Bullpup used in Soldier. The rifle seen here is a stunt version, made of all rubber, and features a very futuristic design. The barrel is long and rounded, the grip under the trigger guard has been crafted with finger grooves. Also, present is a C-More red dot sight on top as well as a large round ammo magazine on the bottom, and a shoulder stock.

Discussion

The Romanian WASR-3

Should we have a section for the WASR-3?

Yeah, I suppose we could do that, since they've appeared in at least three movies that we know of (Casino Royale, Sahara, and now Hotel Rwanda). I would also like to do a section for the Romanian AIM series, which appears in Street Kings and 44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shoot-out.

Well thanks to LUMPY, we now know the make and model of the mystery AKs in Casino Royale and Sahara (2005). It's an obscure FEG Hungarian AK variant that was exported to Europe during the 1980s, which is why Sasha Robey has them and We don't. MoviePropMaster2008 00:26, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Get A Load of This Beast!

Gentlemen, I present to you, Franken-AK!

Franken-AK

I hate Franken-guns.-Oliveira 16:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ugly. Spartan198 18:52, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks like someone took the Type 84S from Hollow Point and added some wierd-looking muzzle brake and bleached the furniture. Orca1 9904 05:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

AKMSU

The AKMSU SMG has been produced by the USSR from 1975 to 1979 ans distributed to special forces and paratroopers, but they were in many cases too hard to handle to be used effectively, so many were scrapped. In 1979 they were replaced by the AKS74U and the remaining guns were shipped to allied countries like Iraq. Very hard to find, hollywood armories usually carry foreign copys (From Zastava) or mock-ups made with parts of AKS74Us. Standard AKMSU has a forward grip and under-folding stock.

Info source please? As far as i know AKMSU was never mass-produced by USSR. It was abandoned because of obvious problems -- too short barrel that resulted in unsatisfactory bullet ballistics and quick overheating.

The comment above stretched the page quite a bit to the right. I edited to fix that. Spartan198 19:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

AKMSU 7.62 never produced in the USSR. It is not in any Soviet or Russian book about the Kalashnikov weapons. This weapon is clearly a foreign design Slow Rider 09:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It was a project for special forces, tankers and that sort of thing. It was cancelled I believe, because the authorities in question felt that the shortened barrel would degrade ballistic performance, the shortened gas system would cause heating issues and the light weight would make the recoil uncontrollable. Odd given that they approved the AKSU-74 later, but all points aside, there were Russian 7.62x39mm assault carbines back then. It just never went into production.

I beg to differ, I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, but Russian Wikipedia has a page on the SOVIET-produced AKMSU. My Russian is still rudimentary (I'm learning), and I wouldn't trust Google Translate that much, but it pretty much says what the first post here says, except that it was produced in 1959, a whopping 20 years before the 74U! The only reason I'm trusting its existence is because I've seen the gun in the pictures there before. I'm dead certain it's never been featured in any media, but it's worth mentioning here. If anything, that unique pre-AKS-74U flash hider is very interesting. Sources: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%9A%D0%9C%D0%A1%D0%A3 http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000570/570186.jpg GreveSparf 22:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The wiki page says it was developed, but never went into production. The book doesn't say anything about production, just details the specs. Sentient6 12:14, 15 April 2012 (CDT)

I too have long been curious about the providence of this design and at first thought it was an airsoft industry fantasy. However other sources around the web and it's article on Wikipedia claims either the AKMSU was a prototype weapon designed and tested in the USSR but never produced further (instead later filling the niche with the AKMS-74U) AND/OR a firearm that matches the description of the AMSU is a crude, Pakistan frontier gunsmith invention. Are there any good refrences or sources as to how the concept came about? Also the entry on this page for the small "Krinkov" states other nations like Yugoslavia made their own weapons matching the description. Is this a reference to the Zastava M92? Maphisto86 (talk) 00:28, 18 November 2012 (EST)

East German AKs

Should we have a section for the Mpi-KMS or any East German AK variants because I saw them in Hotel Rwanda and The Hurt Locker, I have no more info because I am new to this site

Yes, but be sure they really are NVA (East German) AKs. MoviePropMaster2008 02:37, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Zastava M70AB2

I got the picture of the Zastava M70AB2 with standard black pistol grip, should I post it on the main page or keep it here?

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Zastava M70AB2 with standard pistol grip - 7.62x39mm

I went ahead and added it, and kept the "Mitchell Arms" version on there as well, since it shows a version that'd likely appear in American productions featuring the weapon. Orca1 9904 06:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Vltor Modstock?

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Photoshopped AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter, to look like the weapon in Modern Warfare 2 - 7.62x39mm

Oh jesus christ. What they have done to that AK ?

It looks more like a typical M4 stock to me. Spartan198 21:29, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

So what? Vltor Modstock sounds cooler.

I don't care what "sounds cooler". It's a regular M4 stock, not a Vltor Modstock. Spartan198 21:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you want to call it the thing looks revolting. Anyone who tries to "tacticool" an AK should be shot in the face by a true AK. --cool-breeze 22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Homicidal much? Spartan198 23:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

anyone know what kind of muzzle brake/flash hider that is--Anarchy66660 21:40, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

AK-101, AK-102, AK-103 etc.

Shouldn't all "black AKs" be in the AK-74 page? They are just AK-74M in different calibres, and they have AK-74M style muzzle brake and plastic side-folding buttstock.

Draco Pistol

Should we make a section for the Romanian Draco Pistol on the AK-47 page or does it get its own article? Please tell me.

Unless it has been seen in a film then it does not get a mention. If it is a 7.62X39mm AK pistol then yes it goes on this page. Rockwolf66 19:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Hungarian AK

Isn't the Hungarian FEG AK-63 considered a gun that is not custom? It was made in Hungary, but the company that made it has gone bankrupt and is defunct now. Shouldn't the AK-63 get it's own section?

The Cold War

Although weapons from Warsaw pact nations were banned from importation to the US during the Cold War. Did any criminals tried smuggling them into the US?

What would be the point? Criminals aren't gun collectors. They only want guns they can buy for criminal purposes. An AK from China shoots just a good as a real AK from Russia. I suppose Individual weapons WERE brought in during the embargo and were found at crime scenes. In California a North Korean Silenced PPS-43 was found at a drug dealer's house but that could have been a 'not amnesty' pre 68 bringback from Nam or Korea.

A Navy SEAL got 80 into the country before he was caught.... http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-05/us/seal.smuggler_1_special-forces-military-transport-weapons?_s=PM:US Norinco also tried to sell Type 56s to street gangs if I recall correctly --Geckcgt 01:31, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

But that was recent. The OP is referring to during the Cold War. Spartan198 (talk) 13:26, 27 May 2013 (EDT)

Villan weapon

While I understand the reasons for doing so, I still belive these weapons get a bad deal from Hollywood which always casts them as the "Bad Guy's Gun" even though many nations and rebel groups supported by the U.S. have also used Kalashnikovs.

I think it's because in the real world AKs are the most obtainable assault rifle. It stands to reason that most villains in films would have an AK of some sort. --cool-breeze 13:14, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Not to mention the 40-some years of films with AK toting commies villains. Russia donating rifles to anybody calling themselves commie sympathetic freedom fighters didn't help either. --Geckcgt 01:28, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

The US supplied various firearms to Capitalist friendly regimes and freedom fighters during the Cold War, so it wasn't just the Russians doing the donations. --cool-breeze (talk) 07:28, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

AK 46, AK 47, AK

Actualy correct name of the Avtomat Kalashnikova is AK (without 47). AK 46 and AK 47 was experemental models and serial model is "Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947 year "AK". You also can see it on original NSD (I had photo but now can't find). Also model called AK now using nowhere, except Africa maybe. This model was quickly changed by AKM, what known in USA as AK 47 7.62х39mm. Only models after AK 74 have numbers in their names. P.S. Sorry for my terrible english, I whould explain better on esperanto or russian.

In case you haven't noticed, we refer to the AKM as just that--"AKM". As far as the AK vs AK-47 name debate, we just have our own ways of doing some things and stick with it (e.g., "SA-7 Grail" instead of "9K32 Strela-2"). At least the way I look at it, "AK" has become a regular byword over here for AK-type weapons in general and referring to the original AK as "AK-47" is simply to make it less confusing. But I can understand the frustrations of some AK aficionados because I get aggravated when people refer to a C7 as an "M16" or a C8 as an "M4". Spartan198 (talk) 13:43, 27 May 2013 (EDT)

Hey, I'm 7 years late on this, but I've found documents that actually refer to the original adopted AK-47 as the "AK-47", as shown in this album, but after 1952 with the development of the Type II receiver and such, documents later dropped "-47" from the title as shown here. So basically, AK-47 seems to refer to AKs that used stamped Type I receivers, and AK refers to those with the milled receivers that most people refer to as "AK-47"s. Well, I kinda came from a community that goes ham on anyone who misuses the "-47" or misidentifies a variant, so I guess I just wanna put it out here as for anyone interested. OngYingGao (talk) 13:18, 17 March 2018 (EDT)

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater's AMD-65s

You forgot to make a video game entree for Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater in the AMD-65 section, the Ocelot Unit uses AMD-65/63 in the game.

AK-101 and AK-103

Shouldn't they be moved to AK-74 article? They are AK-74M chambered for different rounds. As far I'm moving AK-101 hence it is practically the same as AK-74 --RussianTrooper 19:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

No, all 5.56x45mm AK variants are on this page along with the original 7.62x39mm. All 5.45x39mm AK variants are on the AK74 page. Do NOT change it. Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008 19:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Franken-AK

Stumbled across this monstrosity while surfing the other day. Only thing I can think to say is...WTF??? --Charon68 21:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not an AK, but a SAIGA (with a probably Photoshop Job) mpm

look fake

- Well, MPM would know photoshop jobs. :b Lol, that's is the most fucked up shit I've seen in a while. Bah! StanTheMan 16:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

That's only slightly 'shopped. I'll post the original. -protoAuthor 21:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

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The original

Question about AK actions

I was wondering, when firing an AK-series rifle, does the bolt lock back in the open position after the last round as with M16-series rifles, or does it come back closed again? Orca1 9904 22:24, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Normally, NO! But the Yugoslav models had a modified bolt that when used with a Yugoslav magazine with a modified follower, would lock the bolt open on the last round. BUT, when the magazine was removed, the bolt closed anyway. The bolt would not lock back if another magazine type was used. Sometimes a notch was cut into the selector to hold the bolt back but this only worked when the selector was set to safe after you pulled the bolt back. Wraith

So... what exactly is the point of this bolt catch if removing the mag just lets the bolt go? Spartan198 (talk) 04:04, 4 January 2013 (EST)

What AK is this?

I'm currently doing some recapping for a big edit of the Ultimate Force page and came across this gun:

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As far as I can tell, it has a stamped upper and lower receiver, folding stock, ported gas tube, slanted muzzle and open front sights. I can't find a variant on this page that fits, so is this a franken-gun, or something not listed here? Also ,the gun does actually fire blanks so it isn't an airsoft gun or replica. --commando552 12:34, 30 March 2011 (CDT)

Looks like a AKMS ([1]). You would have to look at receiver markings to get a more detailed description. Wraith

It's an AKMS, but yeah, it has a ported gas tube and smooth front hand guard (which are features found on the AKS-47). I would say it's an AKMS with AKS-47 parts. -MT2008 18:31, 31 March 2011 (CDT)

We recently discovered a Hungarian AKM that has the AK47/Type 56 style gas tube. It's a FEG variant that was only exported to Europe and not the U.S> during the 1980s which explains why British armorers have it and American ones do not. Check out (NGM-81). Note that nearly everyone removed the ugly factory PKM flash hider and replaced it with something more conventional. The underfolder version of this gun was called the NGV-81. :) Since the NGM-81 was built in 5.56mm only, I will investigate further if the Hungarians built any other AKS from this particular lineage, chambered in 7.62x39mm. IF so then we're in business. I will let everyone know if I find something. MoviePropMaster2008 00:30, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Thanks, did a bit of looking at other FEG variants, and it seems a pretty close match for the under-folding variant of the SA-85. Only difference I can see is the different colour hand-guards. --commando552 03:53, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

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FEG SA-85 - 7.62x39mm

I know this might be slightly off-topic, but the guy in that shot looks like he's wearing German flecktarn camo used by the Bundeswehr. Orca1 9904 21:35, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

Could be an AKS47 with an AKM muzzle break (is that what they're called?) --cool-breeze 13:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

If it was originally an AKS it would have a milled rather than stamped receiver. Also, the front sight is of the AKM type. I agree with MT2008 that it is an AKM with some parts changed. --commando552 16:00, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

It certainly looks to have been cannibalised from several; by the looks of things, the gas tube is from a different gun to the lower handguard, for a start (check out how the top and bottom of the handguard aren't anywhere near the same colour or level of wear). Evil Tim 16:08, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Too me, it's just a AKMS with some parts (gas tube, lower handguard) from a AK-47. AK parts are mixed and matched a lot. - Mr. Wolf 17:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I think that statement is incorrect on the AK-47 versus AKM, if that is what you are talking about. not sure what you meant, but different AK-47 parts are interchangeable with other AK-47 guns and different AKM parts are interchangeable with other AKM guns, but the AKM Parts are NOT easily interchangeable with the AK-47. Though it can happen and has, it's a hassle. If you use the AK-47/Type 56 style gas tube with the gas relief holes in it, you CANNOT use the AKM gas block (which has the gas relief holes in it's tube ring). You have to use the solid AK-47/Type 56 style gas block in order for the gun to cycle. Also the gas tube of the AK-47 doesn't fit the AKM (unless a gunsmiths does a lot of modifying). I know, I've tried and without changing, milling, grinding or welding the items, they just don't fit into each other at all. MoviePropMaster2008 07:01, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I see. Thank you for the brain nourishment. :D - Mr. Wolf 15:34, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Question about AK Part

I was wondering, what's the thin metal tube that runs underneath the barrel of AK-series rifles called? I know it's not part of the gas system, as that's on top and the weapon still seems to be able to operate without it. Any help figuring this out would be appreciated. Orca1 9904 17:58, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

That's the cleaning rod. :D - Mr. Wolf 20:23, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

What do you guys think?

Last week, I was watching a Youtube video of a German WWII re-enactor firing an STG-44. I decided to post a comment: "The AK's Grandfather", and got multiple thumbs up (not really important, except for what happened later). What happend was I got some comments some saying things along the lines of:

1. You should have wrote AK's FATHER since there was no inbetween model.

2. Kalashnikov didn't look at the STG at ALL when designing the AK.

And then I got this: "@1Morey The MP44 most know by CoD fags as STG 44 was a good weapon, the problem is that it reached the warfare in 1945 basicly in the end of the war, so it was a failure, and the russians made the Ak years after. The Ak 47 was a failure too, it was just for military and it was on function only 1 year, then they made the Akm 47 wich alot of cod fags confuses it with the Ak 47. Please, seriously, do some research, Sorry for my bad english, p.s: I dont think you know too much about guns." - quoted by Andre232323232332323.

What do you guys think. It really seems to contradict everything I have read about the AK, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "AKM-47", I have heard of AK-47 and AKM, but not a AKM-47. I'm guessing this youtuber is whacked. I just want to know what you think. - User:1morey December 3, 2011 10:28 PM (EST)

Just an idiot who over uses the word "Codfag" and thinks he knows alot about firearms---P226 22:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

1) AKM-47 is a crazy fantasy. 2) STG-44 is not a grandfather of AK. For example they has different system of locking bolts, besides STG-44 has a different way disassembly - it folded like a shotgun. Wikipedia says: "The AK-47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway of the M1 Garand/M1 carbine, the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle, and the gas system and layout of the Sturmgewehr 44. Kalashnikov's team had access to all of these weapons and had no need to "reinvent the wheel", though he denied that his design was based on the German Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle.Kalashnikov himself observed: "A lot of [Soviet Army soldiers] ask me how one can become a constructor, and how new weaponry is designed. These are very difficult questions. Each designer seems to have his own paths, his own successes and failures. But one thing is clear: before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good appreciation of everything that already exists in this field. I myself have had many experiences confirming this to be so" --Flexo 04:39, 24 January 2012 (CST)

What AK is this? Part2

What model of AK do this?

This AK is something that appeared in the Ghost Squad.

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Tokyo Marui's airsoft "AK47 β-Spetsnaz"

I think the Japanese airsoft Perhaps this good?--KINKI'boy 14:05, 24 January 2012 (JST)

Need help on an ID

I'm finishing Beyond Borders right now, and I'm stuck on an ID. The Khmer Rouge in the film have these AKs with milled receivers, but with the hooded front sight. It does fire once in the film. It could've been CGI, but I think I saw an ejecting shell as well. The scene was filmed in Thailand. Any ideas? --Funkychinaman 10:53, 31 January 2012 (CST)

Does it have a pig sticker bayonet, or the bracket for one, as the original Type 56 had a milled receiver. It could still be a Type 56 even without the bayonet, but having it would be pretty definitive. --commando552 11:15, 31 January 2012 (CST)

Alas, no bayonet, but it looks like it may have the bracket. Thanks. --Funkychinaman 11:20, 31 January 2012 (CST)

Does it have a forward facing "L" shaped bit of metal under the front sight block, as this is the bracket that would remain. Do you have a screenshot? --commando552 11:32, 31 January 2012 (CST)

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This shot shows the milled receiver and the hooded front sight.

Yeah, they are early Type 56s. The bayonet is removed but bracket is still there. --commando552 11:43, 31 January 2012 (CST)

They also have hooded front sights, indicative features of the Type 56. Spartan198 18:24, 27 February 2012 (CST)

change

Due to the length, divide it into several pages? All the models official leave (AK-47, AKS-47, AKM, AKMS, AKMSU, AK101, AK-102 AK-103, AK104, AK-108). The rest can be placed on other sites wedłóg their businesses. Zastawa and Norinoco and Bulgarian Arsenal in separate articles. --Mateogala 07:42, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

Stock Fold

I'm trying to make an ID right now, and I have a question: does the AKMSU stock fold only to the left or to the right as well? I've only seen to the left so far, but that would sort of screw left-handed shooters. --Funkychinaman 22:17, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I would think it only folds to the left, fold right and it interferes with the charging handle --Geckcgt 01:23, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

Why would it screw with left-handed shooters? Folding the stock wouldn't interfere with the operation of the weapon. Spartan198 (talk) 04:15, 4 January 2013 (EST)

" Folding the stock wouldn't interfere with the operation of the weapon" If would if it folded to the other side. Examples below: http://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_0/3/2/2/32230/418fda223c444c69a37f0167ba538172.Large.jpg http://www.pbase.com/image/108668435.jpg http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/blndyhb/Cars/ZOMBATKARABINERdasFHULDER063.jpg How can the gun cycle if the stock were on the other side? Side folding AKs fold the stock tilted upwards at an angle. If such a stock folded to the right, the action would be completely blocked --Geckcgt (talk) 19:32, 26 May 2013 (EDT)

ID

I need help with an ID. It's got an SVD-style stock, the rails attach to the side. I can't tell what caliber since it's using a smaller magazine. Stamped receiver, open top front sight, no holes in the hand guard. The scene was filmed in Romania, for what it's worth. --Funkychinaman 19:01, 15 June 2012 (CDT)

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MAK-90 with a PSL stock?-Ranger01 13:19, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the MAK-90 has a closed front sight. And it seems odd they'd bring a post-ban AK into a country that has to be overflowing with AKs. Thank you though. --Funkychinaman 14:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I think I found it. WASR-10 w/Dragunov stock? --Funkychinaman 14:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

Or rather, the WUM 1. --Funkychinaman 14:30, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

Note: Running on 2 hours sleep= brain farts hah.-Ranger01 18:10, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

Adding AKS Picture?

Would this B&W picture of an AKS of second type be allowed to be added to the main page?

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Here's a better one:

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AKS-47 T3

Didn't overwrite the B&W one as that is a type 2 AKS-47, the milled receiver lightening cut is horizontal rather than sloped with the bottom edge of the receiver, and there is a ledge on the lower receiver above the stock pivot. Not sure if there are any type 2 AKS-47s in anything or whether they are all type 3s, will have a look through at some point --commando552 (talk) 19:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Bulgarian Arsenal AR Year of Introduction?

Does anyone know this, when was the Bulgarian Arsenal AR first produced? If not an exact year is available then perhaps it's decade of introduction? Z008MJ (talk) 16:10, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

AKS caliber mistake.

I've changed it from 5.45 which was writen there,to 7.62x39mm,just so you know,people. :) Littlesoldier1 (talk) 08:39, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Yeah, that's fine. Someone probably just confused it with the AKS-74U when they added the stats, might be worth checking the others too. I'll take a look tomorrow if nobody does before that. Evil Tim (talk) 08:44, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Draco to AIMR section change

Does anyone object to me changing the Draco section to a more general one for the AIMR as a whole? AIMR is the general term used for all of the Romanian carbines of this type as opposed to the Draco pistol, which is one specific variant of it imported into the US by a particular distributor. Also, the majority of the "Draco Carbine" listings are for films or TV that were made in Europe, where they would not be using a US import weapon but rather the original Romanian variants. Appearances by the Draco would still go in this section, kind of like how Polytech Legend appearances are listed under the AK-47 section. Thoughts? --commando552 (talk) 10:11, 19 February 2013 (EST)

M22 designation

Okay, what is it with the M22 designation for the Norinco Type 56? Was the weapon adopted by the US military, or is the name just an importer's nickname for the rifle? --Warejaws (talk) 14:17, 8 October 2013 (EDT)

It isn't an importers nickname, but is a designation applied to it by the Chinese themselves. The M22 was an export version of the Type 56 with a milled receiver and that lacked the spike bayonet. It wasn't a civillian rifle and had a semi/full selector (marked L and D, anyone know what this means?), although numbers of them have been neutered and turned into civillian rifles like milled receiver MAK-90s. --commando552 (talk) 15:07, 8 October 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for the info, this was buggin me for a while... --Warejaws (talk) 17:09, 9 October 2013 (EDT)

Masami Tokoi book; AK-47 and Kalashnikov Variations

Here are some photos from the great Masami Tokoi book AK-47 and Kalashnikov Variations, published by Dai-Nippon Co., Ltd. of Tokyo, 1991;

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7,62-мм автомат Калашникова (АК) from 1951 with slab-sided magazine, both sides — (USSR) — Index GRAU — 56-A-212.

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7,62-мм автомат Калашникова (АК) from 1953, both sides — (USSR) — Index GRAU — 56-A-212.

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7,62-мм автомат Калашникова со складным прикладом (АКС) from 1954, left side only — (USSR) — Index GRAU — 56-А-212М.

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Облегченный 7,62-мм автомат Калашникова (АК) both sides — (USSR) — Index GRAU — 56-A-212.

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Облегченный 7,62-мм автомат Калашникова со складным прикладом (АКС) with slab-sided magazine, both sides — (USSR) — Index GRAU — 56-А-212М.

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7,62-мм автоматический карабин Калашникова (АКК) right side only — (Bulgaria).

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7,62-мм автоматический карабин Калашникова (АКК) with standard red Bakelite plastic fittings, right sides only — (Bulgaria).

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АККС with standard plastic fittings, both sides — (Bulgaria).

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7,62-mm-Maschinenpistole „Kalaschnikow" (MPi-K) both sides — (GDR).

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7,62-mm-Maschinenpistole „Kalaschnikow" mit Schulterstütze (MPi-KmS) both sides — (GDR).

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AK-55 both sides — (Hungary).

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AK-55 with night scope rail, both sides — (Hungary).

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Karabinek-granatnik wz.1960 (variant with rifle grenade launching muzzle device, sight and gas block shutoff valve) both sides — (Poland).

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PMKS both sides — (Poland).

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M22 both sides — (PRC).

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56式 both sides — (PRC).

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56-1式 left side only — (PRC).

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56-1式 right side only — (PRC).

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56-1式 with plastic fittings, left side only — (PRC).

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56-1式 with plastic fittings, right side only — (PRC).

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58식 both sides — (DPRK).

Zastava M70 grenade launcher sights

In case you ever wondered what the Zastava M70 grenade launcher sights looked like, here's some fine images that say it all. - PeeWee055 (talk) 06:01, 14 October 2013 (EDT)

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Details of Zastava M70 grenade sight - (c) www.armasizarra.com

What AK is this? The Walking Dead

7 screenshots on an image from The Walking Dead - Season 5 Trailer: I think that AK is customised, look at that handguard and stock. What AK is this? Thanks.

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Rick arming his AK during the trailer.

PaulD21x (talk) 02:24, 27 July 2014 (VST)

Looks like an AK-103 with an AKM gas block and slanted compensator in place of the muzzle brake. Or presumably just an AKM that's been modded to look like an AK-103. Spartan198 (talk) 17:01, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

Not sure, but i think it could be based on a Type 56. In a couple of the caps the front sight looks too wide for an AKM, and in the top right one it looks like it is the hooded type. Also, in the bottom right cap it looks like there is porting along the side of the gas tube, which isn't there on an AKM but is an a Type 56. Lastly, there are not strengthening ribs on the top cover which again is a match for the Type 56 and not an AKM (this top cover is interchangeable so this part is less definitive though). --commando552 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

Now this has developed the AK photoshopped, to see it, AK-103 with style stock, handguard, and other. The gas tube's type 56, and AKM slanted compensator. Identical or not?

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Photoshopped AK-103 with AK-103 style stock, handguard, Type 56 front sight and the gas tube and AKM slanted compensator as seen in The Walking Dead - Season 5 - 7.62x39mm

PaulD21x (talk) 18:40, 28 July 2014 (VST)

I believe it is slightly different, as the show gun has the wide hooded Type 56 front sight. I just watched the trailer, and in some shots it looks like it might be the narrower AKM one, but in a couple of shots it is definitely the wide Type 56 one. The shots where it looked to definitely by a Type 56 one were both firing scenes, so it might be that there are slightly different guns for firing and non-firing scenes which has happened in TWD before. --commando552 (talk) 19:40, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

thanks for this, now the image of photoshopped AK is updated. PaulD21x (talk) 21:55, 28 July 2014 (VST)

I just noticed something else that is wrong with that image. You have used the receiver from an AK-103, which has a button at the back of the receiver for the folding stock. The show gun doesn't have this button as it is just a normal Type-56 receiver with a fixed polymer stock. Just to clarify, this gun is not an AK-103 with modifications, it is a Type 56 fitted with polymer furniture and a slant muzzle brake, both of which are easy mods. Also, in the trailer you can see that they leader of the Terminus group also can be seen with a Type 56 with a slant compensator, but wood furniture. Lastly, in general there is no need to make photo-shopped images for modified guns that appear in media, as firstly the photo-shopped image can be incorrect or misleading (such as in this case where it is an impossible variant made from incompatible parts), and secondly particularly in the case of AKs and ARs we would end up with hundreds of photo-shopped imaged of basically the same gun with minor variations and this is a waste of space as well as being potentially confusing for less knowledgeable members. --commando552 (talk) 05:41, 29 July 2014 (EDT)

Instead of going through all this Photoshopping, how about we just use an image of a basic Type 56 and say it's customized? MPM doesn't like a lot of 'Shopping done with his pics and we need to respect that. Spartan198 (talk) 20:41, 29 July 2014 (EDT)

Ah it's true, that photoshopped image will not be made public on the website, only be an official image of normal Type 56. This is my responsibility, thanks, do not worry much. Sorry. PaulD21x (talk) 15:15, 30 July 2014 (VST)

Contemporary "Soviet-Combloc" Style AKM Production

Out of curiosity I thought I would ask on the talk page about what countries and companies still manufacture Soviet/Eastern Bloc style Kalashnikovs i.e. partially open front sight, ribbed dust cover, compensator, blued bolt carrier and charging handle, etc. AKM type rifles aside from the near ubiquitous Chinese Type 56 models. I still plenty of these both in real conflicts and in movies, television, etc. I understand plenty of them are from military stocks, surplus sold after the Cold War and mix matched parts but I was wondering how many producers still manufacture them. I only know of a few such as FORT in Ukraine and the Maadi factory in Egypt. Maphisto86 (talk) 20:38, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Norinco Type 56 AK-47

Can someone add a slant compensator on this Type 56 in the picture? -- Thestormjamieson (talk) 19:13, 6 May 2016 (CST)

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Maybe a stupid question ....

But is the slanted muzzle designed for Close Quarter Combat?--Dannyguns (talk) 07:46, 25 November 2016 (EST)

The slanted muzzle of AKM is a muzzle brake that lessens the rise of the muzzle while firing in full auto mode. For close combat bayonets were intended. Greg-Z (talk) 07:58, 25 November 2016 (EST)

They are also slightly twisted to the side so they also get rid of the tendency for AKs to pull to the right. This is assuming you are firing it right handed, if you are left handed you need to get a different compensator with a left handed pin slot, or you can just grind an additional groove in the standard muzzle brake. --commando552 (talk) 16:22, 25 November 2016 (EST)

I do that question cause it look sharp, like a diagonally cut pipe.--Dannyguns (talk) 04:33, 27 November 2016 (EST)

If you think about it though, the "blade" could only possibly penetrate by an inch and half before the foresight stopped it, and in real life where people wear clothing it likely wouldn't be able to penetrate at all. Ignoring this, if you were stabbing somebody with the barrel of your gun and you hit a bone you could potentially bend the point over to block the barrel, you could create a bore obstruction with bits of body, and any damage to the end of the rifling would ruin the accuracy of the rifle. --commando552 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2016 (EST)

Oh, I was in hurry so I forget to say thanks, but now I need to say double thanks :). Well my father used a licensed copy of AKM (PMK maybe?) while he was in the Army, but he never said that AK got that "vice". Now wondering if even modern variants have this but I think i cause of the charging handle. --Dannyguns (talk) 10:27, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Another Stupid Question ...

What is the muzzle device in the PMK pic? I see it in a wz.60 the grenade launcher version. --Dannyguns (talk) 10:58, 13 December 2016 (EST)

You are absolutely correct, it's 20mm Karabinek-granatnik wzór 1960 (Kbkg wz. 1960) rifle grenade launcher. Greg-Z (talk) 11:12, 13 December 2016 (EST)

Stupid Question n. 3

How a lefty could fire this correctly? My crush is lefty so maybe... --Dannyguns (talk) 10:05, 1 January 2017 (EST)

Watch this video, Ian, the lefty, shoots it just fine.--AnActualAK47 (talk) 10:16, 1 January 2017 (EST)

Cause in previous they tell that need to be shoot differently, but thanks. --Dannyguns (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2017 (EST)

Question about the "Stocked Variants"...

There are some version IDed just by the stock (AKMS,Type 56-1/2,etc). Well, if there is a gun of these and someone modify the stock, for example someone attach a M4 stock on AKMS or Type 56-2, how we can tell the difference? I made that question because in GTA Online the 56-2 if upgraded got a sliding stock. So I got a doubt... is still a 56-2 or a completely different thing? (Maybe a obscure AK variant but none of these shown here look like it...)--Dannyguns (talk) 05:43, 15 June 2017 (EDT)

I'd just ID it based on what it originally is. Spartan198 (talk) 08:39, 15 June 2017 (EDT)

With the under-folding variants like the AKMS it is more definitive, as even if you remove the stock there will be a big hole through the rear of the receiver where the under-folder pivot used to go. If you took a side folding variant like the type 56-2 and replaced the rear trunion with one with a buffer tube it would be harder to tell the difference (as there are no additional holes in the sides of the receiver). If you had a Type 56 with a buffer tube stock that had an aftermarket pistol grip, it would be pretty much impossible to tell if it started off as a Type 56-2 or a fixed stock Type 56. In the case of the game in question though, it is best to just call it a Type 56-2 as that is what it originally was and this is what the game model would most likely have been modified from. --commando552 (talk) 12:11, 15 June 2017 (EDT)

Zastava M80

Pretty sure the "Zastava M80" picture in the top section of the talk page actually shows an M90. Opinions? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 05:54, 16 October 2017 (EDT)

From what I know the M90 got a particular flash hider so I think you are right this time.--Dannyguns (talk) 09:39, 16 October 2017 (EDT)

Actually, from what I've seen, the M80 has an AK-74/AK-100 series style flash hider. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 14:46, 18 October 2017 (EDT)

Mystery of the AKMSU

The "original AKMSU" image we have is from the Pattern Room. However, some Russian internet users say that it is a custom model based on the Type 56-1, some discussion here (specifically this image I think) --Wuzh (talk) 00:56, 20 April 2018 (EDT)

It isn't just those forum users, that is common (relatively speaking) knowledge. It is even stated on the wikipedia page. The gun in the NFC collection is supposedly a Khyber Pass gun, but the thing hat has always bothered me about that idea is that it has the AKM trunnion rivet positions. If it is based on a Type 56, this would require one of the holes to be welded over, ground down and refinished. If it is a Khyber pass gun, I really don't think they would go to this much effort and I do not think it would look as good as it does (in general this gun is pretty well finished, also why no just use a type 56 barrel and trunnion?) which leads me more to suspect that this is a civillian custom job. As all images of the AKMSU are the one in the pattern room, this kind of suggests to me that the whole Khyber Pass thing may be bollocks, and the Russian experimental story is very likely bollocks. --commando552 (talk) 05:05, 20 April 2018 (EDT)

List of AK-47 stand-ins used in 1980s productions

Since there were lot of stand-in guns for Soviet AKs in 1980s (or before the fall of USSR), I want to compile a list of them, what they are standing in for, how common they were and what's the key visual difference to tell them appart (since internals are hard to tell without markings)

Gun	Built after/stands in for	How common	Significant visual difference	Other notes	First produced	First imported to west	Notable 80s productions
Norinco Type 56	AK-47 (Type III)	common	distinctive full-circle ("hooded") front	Appearances in movies and television dramatically increased after 1980s	1956	early-/mid-80s	Platoon
Maadi ARM (Egyptian Maadi MISR copy)	AKM	common	no distinctive visual difference, main difference is markings	such weapons were first procured by Stembridge Gun Rentals for Red Dawn	?	early 80s	Red Dawn
Poly Technologies AK-47	AK-47 (Type III)	?	no distinctive visual difference	-	?	1988(?), certainly was available before 1994 ban
SA-85M (semi-auto version of the Hungarian FEG AK-63 series)	AKM	not as common as Type 56 and Maadi ARM	slightly different looking pistol grip	-	?	1985
Valmet M71S	generic AK-type	uncommon	handguard, unique stocks, sights (front and rear)	-	1971	early 1970s
Valmet M76	generic AK-type	uncommon	sights, unique handguard,	-	1976	late 70's/early 80s	Survivors, The
Valmet M78	RPK light machine gun	uncommon	unique hardguard, sights, 7.62x51 variants exist. More of a more of an LMG or DMR in appearance	Even though this is more of an LMG, people still pretended that this was a AK-47	1978	early/mid 80s	Commando, Red Dawn
SA Vz.58 assault rifle	generic AK-type	fairly common	loose visual resemblence to an AK, easy to tell appart	ony slight visual resemblence. Sa Vz.58 is internally a wholly different weapon from a AK-47	1959	unknown, appeared more from 2000 onwards	Octopussy, Full Metal Jacket
Adler-Jäger AP-80	generic AK-type	rare	thin magazine	mostly European productions	?	1980s
Galil AR and Galil ARM	generic AK-type / Valmet Rk clone	rare	handguard, sights, stock	Sometimes mocked-up to look like AKs. Israeli productions and Cannon Films	1972	?
Vektor R4 and Vektor R5	generic AK-type / Galil clone	rare	handguard, sight, stocks	Few appearances in very late 80s. Sometimes mocked-up to look like AKs. Mainly South African productions	1980	?	Laser Mission

Admittedly, this list may overlook avilablity in foreign productions, though it could be added to "notes" if there was some production company that had some version easily accessed.

First, I should point out that the Valmets included more than just the M71S (their AKM clone), in case that matters. 1980s action movies have also featured the M76, M78, M82, etc. (though not the M62, which I don't believe was ever imported to the U.S. market).

You also forgot the SA-85M, the semi-automatic version of the Hungarian FEG AK-63 series. Not sure how common those are in 80s action films, but they were first imported to the U.S. around 1985 (hence the "85" in their name) and I know that some Hollywood armories bought them. (Though not in the same numbers as the Maadi ARMs and Chinese Type 56s.)

One other note on the Type 56s: The first of those were not imported to the U.S. until about the early- to mid-80s (which is roughly when they first started showing up in action movies and TV shows). They were definitely not being imported in the late-70s. -MT2008 (talk) 09:54, 21 July 2018 (EDT)

Roger. Though Valmet M82 is a outright bullpup AR. TrickShotFinn (talk) 11:18, 21 July 2018 (EDT)

What about South African Vektor R4/R5? They appear in some movies of late 80s and 90s, mocked up as AKs and AKSs. Greg-Z (talk) 11:40, 21 July 2018 (EDT)

Aren’t we talking mostly about weapons that appeared in U.S. productions? -MT2008 (talk) 20:46, 24 July 2018 (EDT)

About the "AKMSU" carbine

Kalashnikov Concern JSC (formerly IzhMash OJSC) issued (via their official website) a statement clarifying that they have never developed nor produced such carbines and that "genuine AKMSU carbine" (made in the USSR that is) doesn't really exist at all. National Firearms Centre's "AKMSU" is identified as a custom AKS74U clone, based off a Type 56's receiver.
Prooflink is here - https://kalashnikov.media/news/4522523 (in Russian) --RussianTrooper (talk) 09:51, 27 July 2018 (EDT)

Eh, that's not necessarily proof. Birmingham Small Arms Company denies they ever made any Welrod Pistols even though they were almost certainly the manufacturer. Evil Tim (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2018 (EDT)

The NFC AKMSU has some very clear signs that it is a custom build made from a Type 56, with the screw positions being the key identifier. The fact that the only "genuine" AKMSU is not a genuine AKMSU would mean that no "genuine" production AKMSUs exist, and all are custom made models. This would suggest the idea that AKMSU never existed as a production weapon, and given the current statement, not even as a prototype. The Kalashnikov Concern's official statement supports the idea that AKMSU does not exist as a production weapon nor as a prototype, and its name is made-up. However, "AKMSU-type" weapons (or 7.62x39mm AKS-74U-type weapons) do exist out there. I wonder if we should change our description to state these info. --Wuzh (talk) 12:33, 27 July 2018 (EDT)

Well, first of all it should be noted that there actually are AKS74U-type carbines, chambered in 7,62x39mm. That are, for example, the ones made by Bulgarian "Arsenal" company or Yugoslavian/Serbian Zastava M92s. And if the carbine in question (the one seen on screen that is) is actually one of these IMHO it should be identified as such. --RussianTrooper (talk) 19:24, 27 July 2018 (EDT)

Should we re-designate the Hollywood "AKMSU"s we've identified? Given that there is significant support for the idea that AKMSU does not exist as an actual weapon, and that we're giving a bunch of custom models a singular name as though they're production weapons. --Wuzh (talk) 22:27, 27 July 2018 (EDT)

If I may point out, even Modern Firearms updated the info regarding the matter (Eng. - Rus.) --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:32, 28 July 2018 (EDT)

So what do we ID those weapons as instead, then? Custom AK / Type 56? Evil Tim (talk) 02:47, 29 July 2018 (EDT)

Custom AK carbine I guess. Maybe a special subcategory of AKS-74U given that Krinkov kits originate from the AKS-74U? --Wuzh (talk) 07:59, 29 July 2018 (EDT)

I think we should just keep calling it an AKMSU. Even though it is a "fictional" term, it is the term that is in common usage to describe AKS-74U style weapons chambered in 7.62x39mm. The vast majority of the "AKMSUs" that appear are not even based on the "real" one anyway as they are 7.62x39mm AKMs fitted with Krinkov parts kits, or are clones made by other manufacturers (7.62x39mm is a more popular civilian round than 5.45x39mm so has far better availability and choice). Particularly with AKs, due to the wide variety of manufacturers and variants quite often the best you can do is put guns into blanket categories like "AK-47" and "AKM" despite the fact that they are probably not Russian guns anyway, and it is the same with AKMSU. In the absence of distinguishing features that would identify it as a specific other model, if it is a 7.62x39mm Krinkov, I see no problem listing it just as an AKMSU. Similarly, on this topic the term AK-47 is kind of made up and should just be AK, and if you go with AK-47 then this should only apply to the type 1 stamped guns and the milled guns should be the AK-49. We call milled AKs AK-47s because it is the term that is in common usage, and it is the same with the AKMSU. The current description makes it clear that the AKMSU is not an original Russian military variant, to me that is enough to get rid of ambiguity without going through every listing and coming up with new terminology to try and categorise these things. --commando552 (talk) 08:51, 29 July 2018 (EDT)

Are we sure that "it is the term that is in common usage to describe AKS-74U style weapons chambered in 7.62x39mm"? Do any armorers call their creations AKMSUs? Also, should we move AKMSU out of the Soviet/Russian Versions section? --Wuzh (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2018 (EDT)

Regarding your last question, yeah, if no "AKMSU"s have been made in the Soviet Union at all, it would only make sense to move it to the Foreign Copies & Derivatives section. I'm not sure regarding the armorers question, I'll have to look deeper into that. I just remembered a post by Xtreme Props, where the weapon is simply referred to as "Krinkov" in one of the hashtags (although despite the good content that they usually put, this particular post isn't the best reference, since the PKM and the WASR 10/63 are mis-IDed as RPK and AK-47). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:51, 8 August 2018 (EDT)

Krinkov is what a lot of people would call this sort of gun, but the problem with that terminology is that it is too generic as it is used to describe any kind of carbine AK. In fact, IIRC, the origin of this term applies specifically to the AKS-74U as this is the nickname given to those guns by Afghan Mujahaden as it is a contraction of how Kalashnikov is said in some dialects of Pashtu. For a name to give to a fictional variant I still think "AKMSU" makes the most sense as it is a pre-existing term that applies specifically to what are essentially AKMs crossed with AKS-74Us (as long as we make the point that this is in no way an official term used for Russian guns). As for what section to put it in I am not so sure, as on one hand it is not an offical Russian version, but on the other it is not really a foreign copy as in most cases it is made by crossing parts of two "Russian" guns. --commando552 (talk) 06:42, 11 August 2018 (EDT)

Well, in such a case I'd say it shouldn't depend on where the parts of the base guns came from, but rather where the the final build was made. It could have been made in multiple countries, and if these don't include USSR/Russia then it should logically go to the foreign section (especially that Russian sources disown the weapon, and that even the Royal Armories collection's model was made from a Type 56 receiver). That may or may not be a bit like the case of the AKU-94 conversion kit, which is actually in that section since it was made in USA, even though it can fit several AKs, including Russian ones, I suppose (unless it's limited to the ones currently mentioned on the page). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 09:28, 26 August 2018 (EDT)

So, the AKS-74U has the immediate 1973-1976 PPL predecessor: [2]. But it was originally chambered only for 5.45mm. "In 1973, the Ministry of Defense announced the "Modern" contest for the creation of a small-sized assault rifle designed for combat equipment crews. At Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant developed several versions of shortened rifles. An attempt to miniaturize the automat was undertaken by Yevgeny Antonovich Popovich in the PPL. ... Later, E.A. Popovich was transferred to the group of M.T. Kalashnikov for the development of a small-sized rifle based on the standard AK74 and took part in the development of the AKS74U. It was this rifle (AKS74U) that was presented by the plant to a state competition and in 1979 was put into service to provide crews of combat vehicles and other army personnel for whom the standard AK74 was too large." --Slon95 (talk) 09:54, 27 May 2019 (EDT)

Given that 5.45mm was then introduced, I'm not even sure if they considered 7.62x39mm variant at all. --Slon95 (talk) 18:17, 1 June 2019 (EDT)

Moving AK-101, AK-102, AK-103, AK-104 to the AK-74 page

Why are the hundredth series AK on the AK-47 page? It is based on the AK-74M, so it would be logical to move them to the AK-74 page --Pustelga7 (talk) 06 February 2020

Personally, I propose splitting them into their own AK-100 series page. --Wuzh (talk) 03:33, 6 February 2020 (EST)

This would be even better :D --Pustelga7 (talk) 06 February 2020

Is splitting the AK-100 series guns to their own page OK with the admins? --Wuzh (talk) 22:59, 8 February 2020 (EST)

@Pustelga7 it was not appropriate to make such major changes without having the approvals from the admins. As such, I reverted your recent edits. The appropriate action would be to directly message an admin, in case they didn't see this discussion. Regarding this matter, policy states that the AK-100 series go to the AK-47/AK-74 pages, as MPM stated here. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:16, 26 August 2020 (EDT)

KK-MPi-69

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KK-MPi-69

I saw this was recently added to the SMG gallery, and is listed on the German Armed Forces page (which honestly I'd like to have verified). But my question is this.. has this actually appeared in anything? If not maybe we oughta start weeding it - along with some other images/variants - out of here, per MPM's remarks. StanTheMan (talk) 22:28, 4 September 2021 (EDT)

I dunno, I just saw it on a user page and figured that I should put it in the relevant categories. And yes, it was used by the East German military - it was developed and used as a training aid for regular AKs, featuring near-identical ergonomics, handling, controls, etc. - right down to being select-fire. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 23:16, 4 September 2021 (EDT)

In that case, I'm wondering what, for example, does This, and about N number of other files. --Slon95 (talk) 18:11, 7 September 2021 (EDT)

^ Not exactly apples and apples - That is a historical curiosity as part of a discussion, clearly not used anywhere else nor it is being presented as though it were when it isn't, unlike a multitude of gun images/listings thoughout the site. Now if we wanna be overly strict yes it too could be considered extraneous but even so there's a plethora of other things to be addressed first. Stay on target here. StanTheMan (talk) 20:49, 7 September 2021 (EDT)

Proposal: Sorting AKs by their producers rather than caliber

Currently, most Eastern European AK family weapons are sorted onto two pages, this "AK-47" page, which incorporates most of the 7.62x39mm variants, and the "AK-74" page, which incorporates most of the 5.45x39mm variants. I personally believe that this is an improper way to sort these weapons: these rifle designs are more closely related to the country/company they are produced by, rather than their calibers. For instance, the AK-100 series weapons are very closely related to each other and share many components, but the entire series is currently divided into two lists on the 47 and 74 pages, listed alongside significantly different weapons like the Yugoslavian AK variants.

Therefore, I propose that we reorganize the AK-47 and AK-74 pages into the following pages:

"AK-47": Includes Soviet 7.62x39mm AK variants, from AK-46 to AKMS, as well as other miscellaneous variants that are not covered in any of the pages below (such as AKMSU, AK-Alfa, or AKU-94).
"AK-74": Includes Soviet 5.45x39mm AK variants, plus the AK-74M and the AKS-74U.
"AK-100 series": Includes the Russian AK-100 series rifles.
"Norinco Type 56": Includes all Chinese AK variants.
"Zastava M70": Includes all Yugoslavian/Serbian AK variants.
"PM md. 63": Includes all Romanian AK variants.
"MPi-K": Includes all East German AK variants.
"AKM-63": Includes all Hungarian AK variants.
"kbk wz. 88 Tantal": Includes all Polish AK variants.
"Arsenal AR": Includes all the modern Bulgarian AK variants made by Arsenal.

I would like to hear your opinions on my proposal before I commence with the reorganization. --Wuzh (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Just my two cents, but I think having the Hungarian and Polish AKs named like the rest (i.e. calling them, say, "AKM-63" and "kbk wz. 88 Tantal", respectively) would probably be better, for consistency's sake if nothing else. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 03:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC) P.S.: As for the effort this'll take, I wish you the best.

I thought about naming these pages using one of the original Hungarian/Polish AK variants, but I later found out we don't have sections for either of them; the original Hungarian AK was the AK-55, and the original Polish AK was the PMK. (on the same subject, the original Yugoslavian AK variant wasn't the M70, it's the M64) Since neither the AK-55 nor the PMK have sections on IMFDB, naming pages using their names would still be confusing and inconsistent, just in a different way.--Wuzh (talk) 06:00, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, if that's a rabbit-hole you want to go down, there are some other guns with the same "issue" - the RPD page could be called "RD-44", the P14 Enfield page could be called "P13 Enfield", even the ShAK-12 would need to be moved back to "ASh-12.7" (and some of those earlier variants even have images and appearances). We could always move them again if those guns pop up later; alternatively, we could list variants that haven't shown up yet for the sake of completeness (similar to the Glock page), and explain things on the page itself. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 11:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

You do make a good point. I've switched the names. We can use the individual page descriptions to make their boundaries clearer. --Wuzh (talk) 03:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Once I already tried to move the 100 series, so here I agree. But is it really necessary for all foreign versions? Pustelga7 (talk) 08:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Because I disagree with sorting the AK variants into these two caliber-based pages, if we drop the caliber-based sorting we would have to merge all the foreign variants on the AK-74 page back into the AK-47 page, creating an unreadably long page. The more sensible alternative is to just split out all of these foreign variants into individual pages. --Wuzh (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I think we have to consider who we consider our audience here. To most people, if it looks like an AK, it's an AK-47, most people wouldn't know about the subtle differences in each national version, or that various countries even made their own AKs. Maybe we can keep the current structure, with each national version getting their own pages? I like how the page explains the differences between the versions. --Funkychinaman (talk) 06:09, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

I think we can still resolve this issue of differentiation in my proposed page structure by providing better descriptions, and putting links to the split pages inside the descriptions. --Wuzh (talk) 18:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree, like it was mentioned before, it always irked me that AK-100 series were divided between pages. Lunar Watcher (talk) 22:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Funkychinaman initially asked me to consult Commando552 about my proposal, but since Commando552 has not responded after more than ten days, he has given me the permission to proceed with my proposal. I will perform the split later today, and you can still provide suggestions and make changes during the split. --Wuzh (talk) 18:06, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this but it is the same weapon its just that its by different producers but anyways I think it should stay the same. --Wolf1998 (talk) 18:15, 17 October 2022

It's not the same. The variants I'm splitting off use different components compared to Soviet/Russian AKs. If they are genuinely indistinguishable from Soviet/Russian AKs then yes, they should remain on these two pages. --Wuzh (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

What I ment Wuzh was that I'm not against spliting the pages into separate ones while it is not a bad idea but it would most likely led to confusion as they look the same but the components appear to be different compared to standard Soviet/Russian AKs I think the Chinese and Yugoslavian should stay on the same page as they are often seen in American movies and tv shows. --Wolf1998 (talk)

I understand that a layman would have difficulty telling apart the details on the AKs. My plan is to reduce confusion by writing more detailed descriptions of AK features on the pages. We also have an AK Gallery which can be used for side-by-side comparisons of similar-looking AK variants. --Wuzh (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 __TOC__<br clear=all>
-='''Image gallery - OTHER variants of the AK-47'''=
+=Additional Images=
-Since members get confused by some of the other (usually customized) variants made for movies, we should store the images here, so that all members can easily find a variant that they've seen in a movie or tv show.  '''Note: These do NOT belong on the main AK-47 page because they are customized guns for films and not indicative of any 'production gun'.'''  They are stored here for viewing and usage on movie pages that require them.
+==Variants==
+===AK-47===
+[[File:AK (1951).jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 Type 2 - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AK-47 Type 3 rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Type 3 AK-47 - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:PolyTechLegendAK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Poly Technologies Legend AK with original Russian Style front sight, AKM muzzle brake, and bayonet - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:PolytechSignedAK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Poly Technologies Legend AK signed by Mikhail Kalashnikov - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Type58AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Korean Type 58 - 7.62x39mm]]
-=='''Genuine AK-47 Variants'''==
+===AKS-47===
-[[Image:AK47WeWereSoldiersHeroGun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|'''Actual Screen used AK-47''' from the film [[We Were Soldiers]] (built by Cinema Weaponry) - 7.62x39mm.]]
+[[File:AKS(1951).jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKS-47 Type 2 - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:AKS.JPG|thumb|none|500px|AKS-47 Type III - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKS.JPG|thumb|none|500px|AKS-47 Type 3 - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:PMKS.JPG|thumb|none|500px|PMKS/Kbk AKS - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:PMKS.JPG|thumb|none|500px|PMKS/Kbk AKS - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Poly Tech AK-47S Semi-Automatic Rifle.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Poly Tech AK-47/S Semi-Automatic Rifle - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Poly Tech AK-47S Semi-Automatic Rifle.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Poly Technologies AK-47/S Semi-Automatic Rifle - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:AKS-47 T3 unfolded.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Type III AK-47 with light wood furniture - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKS-47 T3 unfolded.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Type 3 AK-47 with light wood furniture - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Type56MuzzleBrake.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56-1 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74#AKS-74|AKS-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Norinco56Mockup.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
+===AKM===
-[[Image:Type84HybridRifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 84S modified with a pig Sticker bayonet, no cleaning rod and milled front end with no detent pin (as seen in ''[[Hollow Point]]'') - 5.56x45mm]]
+[[File:AKMN.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMN - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:BellyNorincoType56-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom Norinco Type 56-1 nickel-plated, fitted with ivory furniture and a Romanian AIM-style vertical grip, originally made for the movie ''[[Belly]]'', also seen in ''[[Lord of War]]'' and ''[[Sopranos, The|The Sopranos]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Type 68.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Type 68 - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Zastava M70AB2 with scope.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M70AB2 with scope - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:PolytechGalilSidefolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Poly Tech AKS-47 [[Galil]] side-folder - 7.62x39mm]]
+===AKMS===
-[[Image:Wm 634735.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FEG AK-63E (Hungarian version of the AKMS) - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKMS with railed handguard.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AKMS with folded stock and railed handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:RD-Maadi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM (AKM) - 7.62x39mm as used in ''[[Red Dawn]]'' (1984) (image from Long Mountain Outfitters)]]
+[[File:AKMSL-NSP3A.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMSL with NSP-3A night scope - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:RomanianblackwidowAKfolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian AKMS Black Widow - 7.62x39mm.]]
-[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 with a AR-15 stock and a synthetic handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:AMD-65 wood.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AMD-65 with wood furniture - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Romanian-WASR-3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian WASR-3 - 5.56x45mm]]
-[[Image:Zastava_M80.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M80 - 5.56x45mm]]
-[[Image:PolyTechLegendAK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Poly Technologies Legend AK with original Russian Style front sight, AKM muzzle brake, and bayonet - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Type 56 export model.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Type 56 assault rifle aka M22 - 7.62x39mm. Rather than having the under-folding pig-sticker Bayonet assembly, this has the standard Bayonet lug underneath the gas block as the AKM and later variants.]]
-[[Image:Chinese-type56-kalashnikov.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Type 56 assault rifle aka M22, early milled receiver model without under-folding ("pig sticker") bayonet - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Norinco AKS Semi-Auto Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56-1 Semi-Auto Black Widow - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4 carbine]] stock and Stock Adapter similar to the one in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''.- 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:1romakm47gpwasr10uf1501.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Romanian WASR-10 UF with Tapco magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:Arsenal-ARM1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Arsenal SAR-M1 - 5.56x45mm]]
-[[File:Arsenal SA-M5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Arsenal SA-M5 - 5.56x45mm]]
-[[File:Centre Balanced Systems Standard AKM.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AKM in Centre Balanced Systems stock - 7.62x39mm]][[Image:Zastava M21 s.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M21S - 5.56x45mm]]
-[[File:AK47RIS.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Norinco Type 56-1 with RIS, polymer pistol grip and birdcage flash hider - 7.62x39mm. The weapon pictured here is from the inventory of The Specialists, Ltd.]]
-[[File:WUM 1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|WUM 1 with PSO-1 scope and 30 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
 [[File:Liberace AKMS.jpg|thumb|500px|none|"Liberace's" AKMS - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:Vepr-KM.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Vepr-KM (VPO-136) - Civil version of AK-47 - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Akm-maadi-deactivated--3920-p.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Egyptian Maadi AKMS with early East German "crutch" stock - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:BulgAR_Railed.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Arsenal AR with attachments, resembling used in the [[Hitman (2007)|Hitman]] movie]]
+[[File:PolishkbkAKMS.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Polish kbk AKMS - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:Type 84-2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Norinco Type 84-2 with right-folded stock - 5.56x45mm]]
+[[Image:Polish AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Polish AKMS - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:Maadi_ARM.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM - 7.62x39mm]]
+===Russian Civilian Variants===
+[[File:VPO-156.jpg|thumb|500px|none|VPO-156 - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:VPO-302.jpg|thumb|500px|none|VPO-302 - 7.62x39mm/.366 TKM/ 6.5 Grendel. A civilian version of the AKM with a special three barrels of different calibers. To change the caliber, you only need to change the barrel to the desired one. Included are three barrels for calibers 7.62x39mm;.366 TKM; 6.5 Grendel]]
+[[File:Vepr-KM.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Vepr-KM (VPO-136) - Civilian version of AKM - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Vpo-209.jpg|thumb|500px|none|VPO-209 - .366 TKM. This is a smoothbore semi-automatic civilian version of the AKM (with "paradox rifling" on the last 120mm of the barrel) sold in Russia under the shotgun license.]]
-=='''AK-47 Carbine Variants'''==
+===Customized Variants===
-[[Image:AK_open.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom-built gold-plated AK carbine from ''[[Lord of War]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 with a AR-15 stock and a synthetic handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:KrinkovQuadRail.jpg|thumb|none|500px| Krebs Custom Speed Load Krinkov - 7.62x39mm.]]
+[[File:C39v2Magpul.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Century Arms C39 V2 fitted with Magpul MOE Furniture - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:AKPDW01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMSU with RIS handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Akmagpul.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Unknown AK with the Magpul MOE pistol grip, stock and handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:Bulgarian-AR-M4SF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Arsenal AR-M4SF with red dot sight and stock folded - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
-[[File:PM md. 90 Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian PM md. 90 Krinkov - 7.62x39mm. Note: this differs from the US import version the [[AK-47#AIMR|Draco]] by its 3 position fire selector, folding stock as standard and darker AKM type palm-swell handguard.]]
+===Bullpup AK Conversions===
-[[Image:Type56C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56C (also known as the QBZ-56C) with 20-round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Centre Balanced Systems Standard AKM.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AKM in Centre Balanced Systems stock - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:Zastava M92abx .jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M92 7.62x39mm with 75-round drum magazine, railed handguard, RIS foregrip, side-folding stock, and laser pointer]]
+[[File:Kochevnik early model.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK rifles mounted in Kochevnik bullpup kit (early model).]]
+===Other Variants===
+[[File:RAS47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Century Arms RAS47 - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:ChechenAK.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Chechen AK derivative using welded-together SVD magazines - (presumably) 7.62x54mm R]]
+[[File:Wieger StG-940.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Wieger StG-940 - 5,56×45mm]]
+[[File:KK MPi-69 22LR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|KK-MPi-69 - .22 LR]]
+[[File:CA C39V2 SBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Century Arms C39V2 SBR - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:Century Arms VSKA AK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Century Arms VSKA AK47 - 7.62x39mm]]
+==Carbine Variants==
 [[File:MPi-AKM-K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|East German MPi-AKM-K - 7.62x39mm]]
 [[File:Sturmgewehr AKMS-K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Sturmgewehr AKMS-K - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:AKMSU.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Very rare original AKMSU assault rifle that was used Spetsnaz GRU - 7.62x39mm.]]
+[[File:SC-2026C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Diseños Casanave SC-2026C - 7.62x39mm]]
-=='''Airsoft AK-47 Variants'''==
+==Replicas==
-[[Image:AKWITHOUTSTOCK.JPG|thumb|500px|none|'''Airsoft''' AK-47 replica without stock - (fake) 7.62x39mm]]
+===Airsoft===
-[[File:Airsoft VFC AIMS PMC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' VFC AIMS PMC]]
+[[File:AKM airsoft gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' AKM replica]]
+[[File:AKWITHOUTSTOCK.JPG|thumb|500px|none|'''Airsoft''' AK-47 replica without stock - (fake) 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKM black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|'''Airsoft''' LCT AKM]]
 [[File:Cybergun_AK47_airsoft.jpg|thumb|500px|none|'''Airsoft''' Cybergun AK-47]]
 [[File:King arms ak74 tapco folding stock aeg right.jpg|thumb|none|500px|King Arms AK74 Tapco Folding Stock - Similar to the customized AKM seen in Season 2 of ''Nikita''.]]
-[[File:Jg-ak47s-fs.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' JG "AK Beta-F" rifle.]]
+[[File:CYMA P1093-S Blue.jpg|thumb|none|500px|CYMA P1093-S Blue]]
-[[Image:CYMA_CM031D_AK104_airsoft.jpg|thumb|none|500px|CYMA CM031D AK104 airsoft]]
+[[File:AEG Matrix 24KAK lg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' SRC Limited Edition Full Metal 24K Gold Plated AK47-S Airsoft AEG]]<!--Needs verification for actual product name-->
+[[File:Spring A King AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Spring A King AK 47 airsoft gun]]
+[[File:UTG 47SA WarHawk airosft.jpg|thumb|none|400px|UTG 47SA WarHawk spring airsoft rifle]]
+[[File:AK47S airsoft.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Airsoft AKS-47.]]
+[[File:AK-47 Tactical RIS AEG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CYMA AK-47 Tactical RIS AEG.]]
+[[File:UFC X-47 at RedWolf.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Customized Tokyo Marui AK-47.]]
+[[File:JG AK-47 black.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Jing Gong Black AK-47]]
+[[File:AK_FAB.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Airsoft AKM with FAB Defence stock]]
+[[File:CYMA CM.028C AEG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CYMA CM.028C AEG.]]
+[[File:AK-47 with Magpul M-4 stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Airsoft AK-47 with Magpul CTR buttstock]]
+[[File:Arcturus CT02 Centaur.jpg|thumb|400px|none|'''Airsoft''' Arcturus CT02 Centaur]]
+[[File:TM AK WS NGRS right side (White).jpg|thumb|none|400px|Tokyo Marui White Storm NGRS AEG (Right side).]]
+===Non-Firing===
+[[File:Denix Gold AK-47 assault rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Denix Gold AK-47]]
+[[File:SECPRO AK-47 dummy.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SECPRO Dummy AK-47]]
+[[File:Rubber_AKS-47_prop.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKS-47 rubber prop]]
+==Photoshopped==
+[[File:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and an M4 buttstock and Stock Adapter, to look like the weapon in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:MW3 AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' AK-47 with synthetic M4 style stock, pistol grip and handguard, AK-74 style muzzle brake, and side mounted RIS rail as seen in ''[[Modern Warfare 3]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Converted AKM pistol ("AKMSU" on IMFDB) with stock removed - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AKS-74 (AKM).jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKM mocked up to resemble the AKS-74 - 7.62x39mm]]
-=='''Photoshopped AK-47 Variants'''==
+==Screen-Used==
-[[Image:Ak103specops.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 with AKM style wood furnishings as seen in ''[[Spec Ops: The Line]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:RD-Maadi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM (AKM) - 7.62x39mm as used in ''[[Red Dawn]]'' (1984) (image from Long Mountain Outfitters)]]
-[[Image:Far Cry 3 AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' AK-103 with side-mounted RIS rail & [[AK-74]] style stock, handguard, and pistol grip as seen in ''[[Far Cry 3]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:AK open.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom-built gold-plated AK carbine from ''[[Lord of War]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[Image:MW3 AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' AK-47 with synthetic M4 style stock, pistol grip and handguard, AK-74 style muzzle brake, and side mounted RIS rail as seen in ''[[Modern Warfare 3]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:MaadiARM.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM - most of the AKMs seen in movies during the 1980s were imported ARMs that were legally converted to full auto fire. This image is of an actual movie gun. The laminated buttstock was replaced with a hardwood one when the original stock was broken during a stunt. This example is also loaded with a 30-round Bakelite plastic magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
-[[File:AKMSU Stock Removed.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMSU with stock removed - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:FF8 621.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Two AKM rifles (at the top) used in ''[[The Fate of the Furious]]''. The first one is fitted with a Magpul MOE handguard, a Magpul Zhukov buttstock and an [[AK-74]] style muzzle brake. Image courtesy of Xtreme Props.]]
-[[Image:Norinco-Type56CustomTWDS5T.jpg|thumb||none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' Type 56 with Fixed Polymer Stock, grip pistol and Handguard as seen in ""[[Walking Dead, The - Season 5]]"" - 7.62x39mm]]
+[[File:SoldierAKU94.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Modified AK Bullpup used in [[Soldier]]. The rifle seen here is a stunt version, made of all rubber, and features a very futuristic design. The barrel is long and rounded, the grip under the trigger guard has been crafted with finger grooves. Also, present is a C-More red dot sight on top as well as a large round ammo magazine on the bottom, and a shoulder stock.]]
 =Discussion=
@@ Line 113: / Line 142: @@
 == Vltor Modstock? ==
-[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter.- 7.62x39mm]]
+[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Photoshopped''' AKM fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter, to look like the weapon in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
 Oh jesus christ. What they have done to that AK ?
@@ Line 166: / Line 195: @@
 :In case you haven't noticed, we refer to the AKM as just that--"AKM". As far as the AK vs AK-47 name debate, we just have our own ways of doing some things and stick with it (e.g., "SA-7 Grail" instead of "9K32 Strela-2"). At least the way I look at it, "AK" has become a regular byword over here for AK-type weapons in general and referring to the original AK as "AK-47" is simply to make it less confusing. But I can understand the frustrations of some AK aficionados because I get aggravated when people refer to a C7 as an "M16" or a C8 as an "M4". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:43, 27 May 2013 (EDT)
+::Hey, I'm 7 years late on this, but I've found documents that actually refer to the original adopted AK-47 as the "AK-47", as shown in [https://imgur.com/a/gkfgf this album], but after 1952 with the development of the Type II receiver and such, documents later dropped "-47" from the title as shown [http://www.ak-info.ru/ak/ak_manual_52.jpg here]. So basically, AK-47 seems to refer to AKs that used stamped Type I receivers, and AK refers to those with the milled receivers that most people refer to as "AK-47"s. Well, I kinda came from a community that goes ham on anyone who misuses the "-47" or misidentifies a variant, so I guess I just wanna put it out here as for anyone interested. [[User:OngYingGao|OngYingGao]] ([[User talk:OngYingGao|talk]]) 13:18, 17 March 2018 (EDT)
 == Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater's AMD-65s ==
@@ Line 254: / Line 285: @@
 ==Need help on an ID==
 I'm finishing ''[[Beyond Borders]]'' right now, and I'm stuck on an ID. The Khmer Rouge in the film have these AKs with milled receivers, but with the hooded front sight. It does fire once in the film. It could've been CGI, but I think I saw an ejecting shell as well. The scene was filmed in Thailand. Any ideas? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:53, 31 January 2012 (CST)
-:Does it have a pig sticker bayonet, or the bracket for one, as the original [[Type 56]] had a [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as49/type56old.jpg milled receiver]. It could still be a Type 56 even without the bayonet, but having it would be pretty definitive.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:15, 31 January 2012 (CST)
+:Does it have a pig sticker bayonet, or the bracket for one, as the original [[Type 56 assault rifle|Type 56]] had a [http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as49/type56old.jpg milled receiver]. It could still be a Type 56 even without the bayonet, but having it would be pretty definitive.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:15, 31 January 2012 (CST)
 ::Alas, no bayonet, but it looks like it may have the bracket. Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:20, 31 January 2012 (CST)
 :::Does it have a forward facing "L" shaped bit of metal under the front sight block, as this is the bracket that would remain. Do you have a screenshot?  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 31 January 2012 (CST)
@@ Line 333: / Line 364: @@
 [[File:215 (AK-55).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''AK-55'' both sides — (Hungary).]]
 [[File:219 (AK-55).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''AK-55'' with night scope rail, both sides — (Hungary).]]
-[[File:234 (PMK).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''7,62 mm pistolet maszynowy Kałasznikow'' (''PMK'') both sides — (Poland).]]
+[[File:234 (PMK).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''Karabinek-granatnik wz.1960'' (variant with rifle grenade launching muzzle device, sight and gas block shutoff valve) both sides — (Poland).]]
 [[File:236 (PMKS).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''PMKS'' both sides — (Poland).]]
 [[File:290 (M22).JPG|thumb|none|500px|''M22'' both sides — (PRC).]]
@@ Line 372: / Line 403: @@
 Out of curiosity I thought I would ask on the talk page about what countries and companies still manufacture Soviet/Eastern Bloc style Kalashnikovs i.e. partially open front sight, ribbed dust cover, compensator, blued bolt carrier and charging handle, etc. AKM type rifles aside from the near ubiquitous Chinese Type 56 models. I still plenty of these both in real conflicts and in movies, television, etc. I understand plenty of them are from military stocks, surplus sold after the Cold War and mix matched parts but I was wondering how many producers still manufacture them. I only know of a few such as FORT in Ukraine and the Maadi factory in Egypt. [[User:Maphisto86|Maphisto86]] ([[User talk:Maphisto86|talk]]) 20:38, 5 February 2015 (EST)
+== Norinco Type 56 AK-47 ==
+Can someone add a slant compensator on this Type 56 in the picture? -- [[User:Thestormjamieson|Thestormjamieson]] ([[User talk:Thestormjamieson|talk]]) 19:13, 6 May 2016 (CST)
+[[Image:Type56Standard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
+== Maybe a stupid question .... ==
+But is the slanted muzzle designed for Close Quarter Combat?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 07:46, 25 November 2016 (EST)
+:The slanted muzzle of AKM is a muzzle brake that lessens the rise of the muzzle while firing in full auto mode. For close combat bayonets were intended. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 07:58, 25 November 2016 (EST)
+::They are also slightly twisted to the side so they also get rid of the tendency for AKs to pull to the right. This is assuming you are firing it right handed, if you are left handed you need to get a different compensator with a left handed pin slot, or you can just grind an additional groove in the standard muzzle brake.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:22, 25 November 2016 (EST)
+I do that question cause it look sharp, like a diagonally cut pipe.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 04:33, 27 November 2016 (EST)
+:If you think about it though, the "blade" could only possibly penetrate by an inch and half before the foresight stopped it, and in real life where people wear clothing it likely wouldn't be able to penetrate at all. Ignoring this, if you were stabbing somebody with the barrel of your gun and you hit a bone you could potentially bend the point over to block the barrel, you could create a bore obstruction with bits of body, and any damage to the end of the rifling would ruin the accuracy of the rifle.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:36, 27 November 2016 (EST)
+Oh, I was in hurry so I forget to say thanks, but now I need to say double thanks :). Well my father used a licensed copy of AKM (PMK maybe?) while he was in the Army, but he never said that AK got that "vice". Now wondering if even modern variants have this but I think i cause of the charging handle. --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:27, 28 November 2016 (EST)
+== Another Stupid Question ... ==
+What is the muzzle device in the PMK pic? I see it in a wz.60 the grenade launcher version. --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:58, 13 December 2016 (EST)
+:You are absolutely correct, it's 20mm Karabinek-granatnik wzór 1960 (Kbkg wz. 1960) rifle grenade launcher. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 11:12, 13 December 2016 (EST)
+== Stupid Question n. 3 ==
+How a lefty could fire this correctly? My crush is lefty so maybe... --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:05, 1 January 2017 (EST)
+:Watch [https://www.full30.com/video/abdaef1660d781a5136c13725539a51f this] video, Ian, the lefty, shoots it just fine.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:16, 1 January 2017 (EST)
+Cause in previous they tell that need to be shoot differently, but thanks. --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:32, 1 January 2017 (EST)
+== Question about the "Stocked Variants"... ==
+There are some version IDed just by the stock (AKMS,Type 56-1/2,etc). Well, if there is a gun of these and someone modify the stock, for example someone attach a M4 stock on AKMS or Type 56-2, how we can tell the difference? I made that question because in GTA Online the 56-2 if upgraded got a sliding stock. So I got a doubt... is still a 56-2 or a completely different thing? (Maybe a obscure AK variant but none of these shown here look like it...)--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:43, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
+I'd just ID it based on what it originally is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
+:With the under-folding variants like the AKMS it is more definitive, as even if you remove the stock there will be a big hole through the rear of the receiver where the under-folder pivot used to go. If you took a side folding variant like the type 56-2 and replaced the rear trunion with one with a buffer tube it would be harder to tell the difference (as there are no additional holes in the sides of the receiver). If you had a Type 56 with a buffer tube stock that had an aftermarket pistol grip, it would be pretty much impossible to tell if it started off as a Type 56-2 or a fixed stock Type 56. In the case of the game in question though, it is best to just call it a Type 56-2 as that is what it originally was and this is what the game model would most likely have been modified from.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:11, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
+== Zastava M80 ==
+Pretty sure the "Zastava M80" picture in the top section of the talk page actually shows an M90. Opinions? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:54, 16 October 2017 (EDT)
+From what I know the M90 got a particular flash hider so I think you are right this time.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:39, 16 October 2017 (EDT)
+:Actually, from what I've seen, the M80 has an AK-74/AK-100 series style flash hider. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 14:46, 18 October 2017 (EDT)
+== Mystery of the AKMSU ==
+The "original AKMSU" image we have is from the Pattern Room. However, some Russian internet users say that it is a custom model based on the Type 56-1, [http://popgun.ru/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=247056&start=600 some discussion here] (specifically [http://popgun.ru/files/g/36/orig/4573996.jpg this image I think]) --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 00:56, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
+:It isn't just those forum users, that is common (relatively speaking) knowledge. It is even stated on the wikipedia page. The gun in the NFC collection is supposedly a Khyber Pass gun, but the thing hat has always bothered me about that idea is that it has the AKM trunnion rivet positions. If it is based on a Type 56, this would require one of the holes to be welded over, ground down and refinished. If it is a Khyber pass gun, I really don't think they would go to this much effort and I do not think it would look as good as it does (in general this gun is pretty well finished, also why no just use a type 56 barrel and trunnion?) which leads me more to suspect that this is a civillian custom job. As all images of the AKMSU are the one in the pattern room, this kind of suggests to me that the whole Khyber Pass thing may be bollocks, and the Russian experimental story is very likely bollocks.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:05, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
+== List of AK-47 stand-ins used in 1980s productions ==
+Since there were lot of stand-in guns for Soviet AKs in 1980s (or before the fall of USSR), I want to compile a list of them, what they are standing in for, how common they were and what's the key visual difference to tell them appart (since internals are hard to tell without markings)
+{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
+|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Gun'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Built after/stands in for'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''How common'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Significant visual difference'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Other notes'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''First produced'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''First imported to west'''
+!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="190"|'''Notable 80s productions'''
+|-
+|''[[Norinco Type 56]] || AK-47 (Type III) || common || distinctive full-circle ("hooded") front || Appearances in movies and television dramatically increased after 1980s || 1956 || early-/mid-80s || [[Platoon]]
+|-
+|''[[Maadi ARM]] (Egyptian Maadi MISR copy) || AKM || common || no distinctive visual difference, main difference is markings || such weapons were first procured by Stembridge Gun Rentals for Red Dawn  || ? || early 80s || [[Red Dawn]]
+|-
+|''Poly Technologies AK-47 || AK-47 (Type III) || ? || no distinctive visual difference || -  || ? || 1988(?), certainly was available before 1994 ban ||
+|-
+|SA-85M (semi-auto version of the Hungarian [[AMD-65|FEG AK-63 series]]) || AKM || not as common as Type 56 and Maadi ARM || slightly different looking pistol grip || -  || ? || 1985 ||
+|-
+|''[[Valmet M71S]] || generic AK-type || uncommon || handguard, unique stocks, sights (front and rear) || - || 1971 || early 1970s ||
+|-
+|''[[Valmet M76]] || generic AK-type || uncommon || sights, unique handguard, || - || 1976 || late 70's/early 80s || [[Survivors, The]]
+|-
+|''[[Valmet M78]] || RPK light machine gun|| uncommon || unique hardguard, sights, 7.62x51 variants exist. More of a more of an LMG or DMR in appearance || Even though this is more of an LMG, people still pretended that this was a AK-47 || 1978 || early/mid 80s || [[Commando]], [[Red Dawn]]
+|-
+|''[[Sa vz. 58| SA Vz.58 assault rifle ]] || generic AK-type || fairly common || loose visual resemblence to an AK, easy to tell appart || ony slight visual resemblence. Sa Vz.58 is internally a wholly different weapon from a AK-47 || 1959 || unknown, appeared more from 2000 onwards || [[Octopussy]], [[Full Metal Jacket]]
+|-
+|''[[Adler-Jäger AP-80]] || generic AK-type || rare || thin magazine || mostly European productions  || ? || 1980s ||
+|-
+|''[[Galil AR]] and [[Galil ARM]] || generic AK-type / Valmet Rk clone || rare || handguard, sights, stock || Sometimes mocked-up to look like AKs. Israeli productions and Cannon Films || 1972 || ? ||
+|-
+|''[[Vektor R4]] and [[Vektor R5]] || generic AK-type / Galil clone || rare || handguard, sight, stocks || Few appearances in very late 80s. Sometimes mocked-up to look like AKs. Mainly South African productions  || 1980 || ? || [[Laser Mission]]
+|-
+|}
+<Br Clear=All>
+Admittedly, this list may overlook avilablity in foreign productions, though it could be added to "notes" if there was some production company that had some version easily accessed.
+:First, I should point out that the Valmets included more than just the M71S (their AKM clone), in case that matters. 1980s action movies have also featured the M76, M78, M82, etc. (though not the M62, which I don't believe was ever imported to the U.S. market).
+:You also forgot the SA-85M, the semi-automatic version of the Hungarian FEG AK-63 series. Not sure how common those are in 80s action films, but they were first imported to the U.S. around 1985 (hence the "85" in their name) and I know that some Hollywood armories bought them. (Though not in the same numbers as the Maadi ARMs and Chinese Type 56s.)
+:One other note on the Type 56s: The first of those were not imported to the U.S. until about the early- to mid-80s (which is roughly when they first started showing up in action movies and TV shows). They were definitely not being imported in the late-70s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 09:54, 21 July 2018 (EDT)
+::Roger. Though Valmet M82 is a outright bullpup AR. [[User:TrickShotFinn|TrickShotFinn]] ([[User talk:TrickShotFinn|talk]]) 11:18, 21 July 2018 (EDT)
+:::What about South African Vektor R4/R5? They appear in some movies of late 80s and 90s, mocked up as AKs and AKSs. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 11:40, 21 July 2018 (EDT)
+::::Aren’t we talking mostly about weapons that appeared in U.S. productions? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 20:46, 24 July 2018 (EDT)
+== About the "AKMSU" carbine ==
+Kalashnikov Concern JSC (formerly IzhMash OJSC) issued (via their official website) a statement clarifying that they have never developed nor produced such carbines and that "genuine AKMSU carbine" (made in the USSR that is) doesn't really exist at all. National Firearms Centre's "AKMSU" is identified as a custom AKS74U clone, based off a Type 56's receiver.<br>
+Prooflink is here - https://kalashnikov.media/news/4522523 (in Russian) --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 09:51, 27 July 2018 (EDT)
+:Eh, that's not ''necessarily'' proof. Birmingham Small Arms Company denies they ever made any [[Welrod Pistol]]s even though they were almost certainly the manufacturer. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:54, 27 July 2018 (EDT)
+The NFC AKMSU has some very clear signs that it is a custom build made from a Type 56, with the screw positions being the key identifier. The fact that the only "genuine" AKMSU is not a genuine AKMSU would mean that no "genuine" production AKMSUs exist, and all are custom made models. This would suggest the idea that AKMSU never existed as a production weapon, and given the current statement, not even as a prototype. The Kalashnikov Concern's official statement supports the idea that AKMSU does not exist as a production weapon nor as a prototype, and its name is made-up. However, "AKMSU-type" weapons (or 7.62x39mm AKS-74U-type weapons) do exist out there. I wonder if we should change our description to state these info. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 12:33, 27 July 2018 (EDT)
+:: Well, first of all it should be noted that there actually are AKS74U-type carbines, chambered in 7,62x39mm. That are, for example, the ones made by Bulgarian "Arsenal" company or Yugoslavian/Serbian Zastava M92s. And if the carbine in question (the one seen on screen that is) is actually one of these IMHO it should be identified as such. --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 19:24, 27 July 2018 (EDT)
+Should we re-designate the Hollywood "AKMSU"s we've identified? Given that there is significant support for the idea that AKMSU does not exist as an actual weapon, and that we're giving a bunch of custom models a singular name as though they're production weapons. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 22:27, 27 July 2018 (EDT)
+If I may point out, even Modern Firearms updated the info regarding the matter ([http://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/russia-assault-rifles/akmsu-2/ Eng.] - [http://modernfirearms.net/ru/avtomaty-shturmovye-vintovki/rossija-avtomaty-i-shturmovye-vintovki/akmsu/ Rus.]) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 17:32, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
+:So what do we ID those weapons as instead, then? Custom AK / Type 56? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:47, 29 July 2018 (EDT)
+:: Custom AK carbine I guess. Maybe a special subcategory of AKS-74U given that Krinkov kits originate from the AKS-74U? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 07:59, 29 July 2018 (EDT)
+::: I think we should just keep calling it an AKMSU. Even though it is a "fictional" term, it is the term that is in common usage to describe AKS-74U style weapons chambered in 7.62x39mm. The vast majority of the "AKMSUs" that appear are not even based on the "real" one anyway as they are 7.62x39mm AKMs fitted with Krinkov parts kits, or are clones made by other manufacturers (7.62x39mm is a more popular civilian round than 5.45x39mm so has far better availability and choice). Particularly with AKs, due to the wide variety of manufacturers and variants quite often the best you can do is put guns into blanket categories like "AK-47" and "AKM" despite the fact that they are probably not Russian guns anyway, and it is the same with AKMSU. In the absence of distinguishing features that would identify it as a specific other model, if it is a 7.62x39mm Krinkov, I see no problem listing it just as an AKMSU. Similarly, on this topic the term AK-47 is kind of made up and should just be AK, and if you go with AK-47 then this should only apply to the type 1 stamped guns and the milled guns should be the AK-49. We call milled AKs AK-47s because it is the term that is in common usage, and it is the same with the AKMSU. The current description makes it clear that the AKMSU is not an original Russian military variant, to me that is enough to get rid of ambiguity without going through every listing and coming up with new terminology to try and categorise these things.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:51, 29 July 2018 (EDT)
+Are we sure that "it is the term that is in common usage to describe AKS-74U style weapons chambered in 7.62x39mm"? Do any armorers call their creations AKMSUs? Also, should we move AKMSU out of the Soviet/Russian Versions section? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 22:56, 30 July 2018 (EDT)
+:Regarding your last question, yeah, if no "AKMSU"s have been made in the Soviet Union at all, it would only make sense to move it to the Foreign Copies & Derivatives section. I'm not sure regarding the armorers question, I'll have to look deeper into that. I just remembered [http://www.instagram.com/p/BjxL5vxHNqE/ a post] by Xtreme Props, where the weapon is simply referred to as "Krinkov" in one of the hashtags (although despite the good content that they usually put, this particular post isn't the best reference, since the PKM and the WASR 10/63 are mis-IDed as RPK and AK-47). --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:51, 8 August 2018 (EDT)
+::Krinkov is what a lot of people would call this sort of gun, but the problem with that terminology is that it is too generic as it is used to describe any kind of carbine AK. In fact, IIRC, the origin of this term applies specifically to the AKS-74U as this is the nickname given to those guns by Afghan Mujahaden as it is a contraction of how Kalashnikov is said in some dialects of Pashtu. For a name to give to a fictional variant I still think "AKMSU" makes the most sense as it is a pre-existing term that applies specifically to what are essentially AKMs crossed with AKS-74Us (as long as we make the point that this is in no way an official term used for Russian guns). As for what section to put it in I am not so sure, as on one hand it is not an offical Russian version, but on the other it is not really a foreign copy as in most cases it is made by crossing parts of two "Russian" guns.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:42, 11 August 2018 (EDT)
+:::Well, in such a case I'd say it shouldn't depend on where the parts of the base guns came from, but rather where the the final build was made. It could have been made in multiple countries, and if these don't include USSR/Russia then it should logically go to the foreign section (especially that Russian sources disown the weapon, and that even the Royal Armories collection's model was made from a Type 56 receiver). That may or may not be a bit like the case of the AKU-94 conversion kit, which is actually in that section since it was made in USA, even though it can fit several AKs, including Russian ones, I suppose (unless it's limited to the ones currently mentioned on the page). --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2018 (EDT)
+So, the AKS-74U has the immediate 1973-1976 PPL predecessor: [http://www.dogswar.ru/images/stories/foto/weapons-05.jpg]. But it was originally chambered only for 5.45mm. ''"In 1973, the Ministry of Defense announced the "Modern" contest for the creation of a small-sized assault rifle designed for combat equipment crews. At Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant developed several versions of shortened rifles. An attempt to miniaturize the automat was undertaken by Yevgeny Antonovich Popovich in the PPL. ... Later, E.A. Popovich was transferred to the group of M.T. Kalashnikov for the development of a small-sized rifle based on the standard AK74 and took part in the development of the AKS74U. It was this rifle (AKS74U) that was presented by the plant to a state competition and in 1979 was put into service to provide crews of combat vehicles and other army personnel for whom the standard AK74 was too large."'' --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 09:54, 27 May 2019 (EDT)
+:Given that 5.45mm was then introduced, I'm not even sure if they considered 7.62x39mm variant at all. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:17, 1 June 2019 (EDT)
+==Moving AK-101, AK-102, AK-103, AK-104 to the AK-74 page ==
+Why are the hundredth series AK on the AK-47 page? It is based on the AK-74M, so it would be logical to move them to the AK-74 page   --[[User:Pustelga7|Pustelga7]] ([[User talk:Pustelga7|talk]]) 06 February 2020
+:Personally, I propose splitting them into their own AK-100 series page. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 03:33, 6 February 2020 (EST)
+::This would be even better :D --[[User:Pustelga7|Pustelga7]] ([[User talk:Pustelga7|talk]]) 06 February 2020
+Is splitting the AK-100 series guns to their own page OK with the admins? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 22:59, 8 February 2020 (EST)
+@Pustelga7 it was not appropriate to make such major changes without having the approvals from the admins. As such, I reverted your recent edits. The appropriate action would be to directly message an admin, in case they didn't see this discussion. Regarding this matter, policy states that the AK-100 series go to the AK-47/AK-74 pages, as MPM stated [[Talk:AK-47#AK-101 and AK-103|here]]. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:16, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
+==KK-MPi-69==
+[[File:KK_MPi-69_22LR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|KK-MPi-69]]
+I saw this was recently added to the SMG gallery, and is listed on the German Armed Forces page (which honestly I'd like to have verified). But my question is this.. has this actually appeared in anything? If not maybe we oughta start weeding it - along with some other images/variants - out of here, per [[Talk:Main_Page#Stop_adding_firearms_that_don.27t_appear_in_anything|MPM's remarks]]. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:28, 4 September 2021 (EDT)
+:I dunno, I just saw it on a user page and figured that I should put it in the relevant categories. And yes, it was used by the East German military - it was developed and used as a training aid for regular AKs, featuring near-identical ergonomics, handling, controls, etc. - right down to being select-fire. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 23:16, 4 September 2021 (EDT)
+::In that case, I'm wondering what, for example, does [[Talk:PPSh-41#And_the_award_for_most_bizarre_use_of_the_PPSh:|This]], and about N number of other files. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:11, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
+::: ^ Not exactly apples and apples - ''That'' is a historical curiosity as part of a discussion, clearly not used anywhere else nor it is being presented as though it were when it isn't, unlike a multitude of gun images/listings thoughout the site. Now if we wanna be overly strict yes it too could be considered extraneous but even so there's a plethora of other things to be addressed first. Stay on target here. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 20:49, 7 September 2021 (EDT)
+==Proposal: Sorting AKs by their producers rather than caliber==
+Currently, most Eastern European AK family weapons are sorted onto two pages, this "AK-47" page, which incorporates most of the 7.62x39mm variants, and the "[[AK-74]]" page, which incorporates most of the 5.45x39mm variants. I personally believe that this is an improper way to sort these weapons: these rifle designs are more closely related to the country/company they are produced by, rather than their calibers. For instance, the AK-100 series weapons are very closely related to each other and share many components, but the entire series is currently divided into two lists on the 47 and 74 pages, listed alongside significantly different weapons like the Yugoslavian AK variants.
+Therefore, I propose that we reorganize the AK-47 and AK-74 pages into the following pages:
+* "AK-47": Includes Soviet 7.62x39mm AK variants, from AK-46 to AKMS, as well as other miscellaneous variants that are not covered in any of the pages below (such as AKMSU, AK-Alfa, or AKU-94).
+* "AK-74": Includes Soviet 5.45x39mm AK variants, plus the AK-74M and the AKS-74U.
+* "AK-100 series": Includes the Russian AK-100 series rifles.
+* "Norinco Type 56": Includes all Chinese AK variants.
+* "Zastava M70": Includes all Yugoslavian/Serbian AK variants.
+* "PM md. 63": Includes all Romanian AK variants.
+* "MPi-K": Includes all East German AK variants.
+* "AKM-63": Includes all Hungarian AK variants.
+* "kbk wz. 88 Tantal": Includes all Polish AK variants.
+* "Arsenal AR": Includes all the modern Bulgarian AK variants made by Arsenal.
+I would like to hear your opinions on my proposal before I commence with the reorganization. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 04:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
+:Just my two cents, but I think having the Hungarian and Polish AKs named like the rest (i.e. calling them, say, "AKM-63" and "kbk wz. 88 Tantal", respectively) would probably be better, for consistency's sake if nothing else. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 03:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC) P.S.: As for the effort this'll take, I wish you the best.
+:: I thought about naming these pages using one of the original Hungarian/Polish AK variants, but I later found out we don't have sections for either of them; the original Hungarian AK was the AK-55, and the original Polish AK was the [https://www.faktory47.com/blogs/kalashnikov/polish-ak-history PMK]. (on the same subject, the original Yugoslavian AK variant wasn't the M70, it's the M64) Since neither the AK-55 nor the PMK have sections on IMFDB, naming pages using their names would still be confusing and inconsistent, just in a different way.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 06:00, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
+:::Well, if that's a rabbit-hole you want to go down, there are some other guns with the same "issue" - the RPD page could be called "RD-44", the P14 Enfield page could be called "P13 Enfield", even the ShAK-12 would need to be moved back to "ASh-12.7" (and some of those earlier variants even have images and appearances). We could always move them again if those guns pop up later; alternatively, we could list variants that haven't shown up yet for the sake of completeness (similar to the Glock page), and explain things on the page itself. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 11:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
+:::: You do make a good point. I've switched the names. We can use the individual page descriptions to make their boundaries clearer. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 03:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
+::Once I already tried to move the 100 series, so here I agree.  But is it really necessary for all foreign versions? [[User:Pustelga7|Pustelga7]] ([[User talk:Pustelga7|talk]]) 08:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
+::: Because I disagree with sorting the AK variants into these two caliber-based pages, if we drop the caliber-based sorting we would have to merge all the foreign variants on the AK-74 page back into the AK-47 page, creating an unreadably long page. The more sensible alternative is to just split out all of these foreign variants into individual pages. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 19:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
+:I think we have to consider who we consider our audience here. To most people, if it looks like an AK, it's an AK-47, most people wouldn't know about the subtle differences in each national version, or that various countries even made their own AKs. Maybe we can keep the current structure, with each national version getting their own pages? I like how the page explains the differences between the versions. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 06:09, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
+:: I think we can still resolve this issue of differentiation in my proposed page structure by providing better descriptions, and putting links to the split pages inside the descriptions. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
+:Honestly, I agree, like it was mentioned before, it always irked me that AK-100 series were divided between pages. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 22:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
+Funkychinaman initially asked me to consult Commando552 about my proposal, but since Commando552 has not responded after more than ten days, he has given me the permission to proceed with my proposal. I will perform the split later today, and you can still provide suggestions and make changes during the split. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:06, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
+I'm not sure about this but it is the same weapon its just that its by different producers but anyways I think it should stay the same. --[[User:Wolf1998|Wolf1998]] ([[User talk:Wolf1998|talk]]) 18:15, 17 October 2022
+: It's not the same. The variants I'm splitting off use different components compared to Soviet/Russian AKs. If they are genuinely indistinguishable from Soviet/Russian AKs then yes, they should remain on these two pages. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:30, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
+What I ment Wuzh was that I'm not against spliting the pages into separate ones while it is not a bad idea but it would  most likely led to confusion as they look the same but the components appear to be different compared to standard Soviet/Russian AKs I think the Chinese and Yugoslavian should stay on the same page as they are often seen in American movies and tv shows. --[[User:Wolf1998|Wolf1998]] ([[User talk:Wolf1998|talk]])
+:I understand that a layman would have difficulty telling apart the details on the AKs. My plan is to reduce confusion by writing more detailed descriptions of AK features on the pages. We also have an AK Gallery which can be used for side-by-side comparisons of similar-looking AK variants. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 16:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Talk:AK-47: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 20:10, 27 November 2023

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