User talk:MT2008

airsoft

I don't like, Tokyo Marui that much. But I have handled a 1911 , a double barreled shotgun, an M1 Garand, M4A1 and proudly the P220 and USP compact .357 sig.

Sig 228

The one on the Negotiator, i think it is a 228 because it has a shorter barrel, but i can't tell exactly since there is a tactical flashlight and makes me unable to see the trigger guard, but I am still really young to be interested in guns!!( I am under 18! even under 15!) and its strange that the 228 has no markings on it. And the outer barrel shape of the P228 is quite different so, once again, sorry for my rude edits.

Recent Weapon Articles

Listen, I have not uploaded the last articles for no reason becouse they were used in particular movies/video games. I have thorougly read your policy on uploading exotic Trial/Research weaponry and have followed it since you last told me. User:Cutaway

Sorry about my edits.

Sorry, I am really sorry, I am new to this website.

Norinco Type 54/questionable conversation

Cool, I have a Type 54. Frame mounted safety, 9mm clearly marked Norinco (will take pictures if you wany). I may have missed some SKSs in Platoon, feel free to add them to the page. I hope you guys don't see me as that guy you always have to correct. His use of the word "especially" makes it sound like I fucked up major and it needs your help big time. No biggy, just wondering. Let me know bout the Type 54. (It was found by a friend of my dad's, hidden in a construction site, so he may say no since it could be illegal but it should be okay). P.S: I could have sworn they made a MAC-9 model, but I'm assuming you'd know more. Sorry if I'm wrong -GM45

He okayed it, I'll photo edit them to make them Semi-professional looking.

Sorry I haven't got the pictures done yet, I've been pretty busy. Expect them some time this week.-GM

Back for a bit

Nice to see you're back on the site! Hope you've seen some of GunMaster45's recent work (especially on Heartbreak Ridge and Platoon.) Anyway, I'm curious...do you by chance have a Chinese Type 54 copy of a Tokarev in your company's inventory? I ask only because I've seen those in quite a few movies, and I figure we should have a picture of one for this site. Also, I thought that only Chinese Tokarevs have the frame-mounted safety? I have little experience with them, but I thought I remembered reading that...please educate me if I'm wrong!

Yes, GunMaster45 did good work on the Heartbreak Ridge page. He put on screen caps proving that there were slab side M16s as well as A1s, so that I didn't have to do it. :) I still think that some of the screen shots he attributed to Chinese AKs in Platoon are in fact SKS rifles. But I will have to do a detailed scan of Platoon to verify that the rifles that I think are SKS rifles are indeed SKSs. Hope he doesn't get annoyed, but I noted some errors in the MAC-10 page. I will also be posting pics of the MAC-10 in 9mm and also closeups of the Sten vs MAC-10/9 mags to clarify my remarks. But I will correct ANY error that I see, and of course, I tend to get a little testy when MY stuff is deleted or changed ... hahahaha. I just get high strung because I deal with crazy people every day. I'm in a bad mood now because JOSH BROLIN, you know, that oscar nominated actor dude, just fucked up one of my handguns. The trigger guard is completely bent. I mean, how the hell do you bend a trigger guard of a Police Chief Special? unless you ran over it with a truck? It's F**king amazing. I can't believe how actors or (non gun wrangler) prop persons can completely screw up GUNS in a few minutes more than the abuse of a real shooter over the span of years... And they look at me like I'm an idiot when I say "HEY!? what the hell did you do to MY gun?!?!" Sorry, gotta deal with crap every day, from folks who don't know squat about guns AND they abuse me as well ! hahahaha. Anyway, I wish I could take you to the set for just ONE day, to see the crap I gotta deal with. On another note, I am trying to get to the Battlestar Galactica set before they tear it all down. :) I will just be a visitor since it's in Canada and I'm not an authorized armorer in that country.

I don't have a Chinese Tokarev, I will try to find someone who does. Again, I hope I don't seem obnoxious, but I own 99% of these guns and have decades of experience with them. gotta apologize in advance ...hahaha ... there is always a bit of a knee jerk reaction that I get when I see info coming from any source (and that means all posters) that doesn't own or handle the firearms in question, and I have to do my best to quell that knee jerk response :) But I can always run to the gun safe, pull out the gun in question and take pictures of them. I got pics of some of the MATRIX guns so I will try to post them.

Gunmaster45

I figured that it was something to do with the foreign exchange. I had an assumption it was similair to how the Glocks are in generations, 1s being the oldest ones with the least new feattures, 2s being slightly better, and 3s being the newest. I've also seen the R models with the tactical rails and moaybe that is a 3rd gen variation as well.

It was only a thought that they could be like Glocks as that was my best guess. We should pobably find whoever labeled it P220-1 and ask him why he did that. With Glocks, the generations labeling is very simple.(I'l explain since I've tried very hard to remember all the Glocks and facts.)

1st Generation: The original models first started in production in 1983. They had a flat nose at the end of the frame, a flat handle, no decocking safety, and I believe no white night outlined sights. They had magazines built to swell when fully loaded so when in the gun, they would'nt drop out if the mag release was pressed accidentally. That is why they have thumb wells on the bottom of the grip, so you can pull it out with ease. I own a Glock 17 1st genration from 1986 and it was one of the 300th built. It has an ugly set of night sights(probably added much later) and they are adjustable. The mag swells when I put it in the gun loaded but falls out with ease when unloaded. It's a nice gun but I'd rather have a 3rd gen with original sights.
2nd Generations.: Started in the 1990, they built Glocks with a slightly more curved frame nose, finger stepping and cut notches in the back of the grip. They dropped the swelling mag idea and made mags you could drop straight out of the gun for a quick tactical reload.
3rd Generations: Started in 2000, they added tactical rails to the frame nose, finger notches for a better grip still(as if stepping wasn't enough?) and a thumb groove.

Now that the mags don't swell anymore, they make plugs to close up those thumb wells which makes sense since getting mud or other crap in there would be annoying to clean out.

As for SIG-Sauers, I've held one a long time ago and other than what I read and see, my experiance with them is poor. I'll have to go and buy a P220 and a P226 and see how they work. My dad has this encyclepedia of guns with every models of all guns made so I'll flip through that sometime. It stops at 2004 so he needs a new book.

I'll add this here because I need to tell someone. I added a beautiful stainless compensator to my M1911A1 and it is great. To install it, we had to ground down the spring cover so it would fit the comp. properly, as the guy I bought it from on Ebay says it fits all 1911s but it was built for ones with guide rods. Still got it to work well. I'll upload pictures very, very soon. The gun needs to be reblued as the slide is a WWII A1 slide and the frame is a M1911 original WWI frame from 1913. I will soon add 3 dot night sights, a stainless long type 3 holed trigger and maybe some hogue finger groove grips(but the orinal 1913 wood grips might just stay). The mainspring housing has grooves in it so it can accept a wooden stock, which I have, along with the 16in barrel, so it can all be legal and friendly. As soon as you respond, I'll post the pic here for you.

Err, maybe not, the camera isn't working right. I'll try it tommorow I guess.

Thanks for correcting the The Rock page, I was up til 7:00am screencapping and uploading the movie and my brain wasn't to full capacity. I noticed things like Goodspeeds Beretta had a somewhat smaller barrel and I was way too tired to find a stock picture for every gun so thanks for finding all of them. Finding good screenshots isn't easy. They used Berettas and Commandos so much in the movie I had over 20 screens each, so I had to drop a few. As for the Beretta 92SB, you'd think I'd notice as I'm the one who made the column of the Beretta page for it. I was tired and so distracted by the grips, I missed the trigger guard and inproperly classified it. But as long as your around to clean up after me, all should be fine. You clearly know more about the Colt Commando than me, that's for sure.

With screencapping the process is very aggravating. I play the DVD in my computer's player. I find the guns based on my memory of the best shots in the movie. I press "P" which captures the shot as a screenshot. I save it. Now after finding maybe 50+ screencaps for the whole movie, I go to my photoshop editor. I take every picture and convert the file from a BMP to a JPG. If the movie is widescreen, I crop out the black bars.(although I just started doing this.) Then I upload every single picture to the site and build the pages and links. I wish I got payed to do it, it's really very time consuming. But it is worth it for the knowledge of other people, right? Last Action Hero was the worst. I had over 100+ screens and there were 33 guns in that movie and I put them all in. The Funeral section was the hardest part as over 100 people pulled out guns and I identified what I could. The screens for that movie came out well, but the DVd's quality was about VHS and it looked terrible. Hopefully it was worth it though. -Gunmaster45

A pic and an update

Hey there. Got a few minutes. When I get a few minutes, I will be changing the several pages where we explore the different natures of guns (the US Marshals page , the M16 page and the Sahara Page). I will be clarifying the SP1 Sporter to a Colt Sporter Carbine, since I've seen both the version you posted (and the ones I have access to are actually still marked M16A1, so they were converted with a sporter TOP receiver after the fact. I am also going to take another pic of a Colt 733 that's actually marked Colt 733. My previous 733 pic turned out to be a conversion of an M16 receiver to a 733 looking gun. I am also cleaning up the Sahara page since I asked a few armorer/experts locally and they all think it's the foreign equivalent of the Romanian WASR-3 AK gun that we imported into this country. I don't know what the foreign countries called their version, but the best I can do is list it as the closest version that's verifiable in this country.

Here's a pic for you. Why am I grumpy sometimes? cuz, I am STILL looking at a rack of 24 AKMs that need cleaning. I still have to clean 17 AR-15 rifles. And the vault has all the stuff that needs either a major cleaning/refinishing or fixing. The tagged ones need replacement parts.

Now here's a pop quiz. Can you ID any of the guns in my 'to do list' vault? ;) Let me know if you can ID any of them. LOL!

File:FixerVault.jpg

click on the image for a bigger pic.

Long barreled AKs

Wow! You did it. Amazing. No, I don't know what the hell that AK is. I've never seen an underfolder Long barreled AK for sale in the U.S. So it must be an Australian/Canadian thing. I guess that's a mystery we will have to bug the foreign armorers about. Wasn't there a Canadian armorer here on IMFDB a while ago? I don't remember well. Anyway, I also hope you don't think I was too harsh re: the HEAT updates. The vast majority of IMFDB users seem to be guys who are too young to buy a handgun, and some are too young to have a driver's license. Anyway I gotta take a break and get back to some movie sets here. :) I will try to get pics of the more famous guns when I can. But my contributions will drop down until I get some more free days. Thanks again. MPM2008

Re: Your Articles

I completly understand what you mean. I'll do my best to add guns to the pages from now on. Like you said, it's a pain in the ass when there is over 30 guns but I'll do it from now on. I'lve just finished screencapping Eraser but I might wait till tommorow to upload it, its been a long day, perhaps tonight. I'll make sure to add the pictures on that one. I assume there's about 20 or so guns. Thanks for pointing that out. By the way, what is the language rules for this site, because I wrote the "F" word on the Heartbreak Ridge page and I'm not sure that's allowed. The question is right under the picture in the M16 section. I'll do my best to be more considerate to editors like you. My main goal is to make a page flawless and immune to your corrections, but so far no dice. (Although, I'm unaware whether or not you checked the Last Action Hero page because it had no correction notes. Did I do it? - Gunmaster45

re:Sahara

It's kinda strange, though...I wouldn't have figured British armorers would use civilian AK variants that were essentially geared towards the U.S. firearms market.

re: British armorers, I've never met Sascha Robey. All I know is that Robey did the guns for the American TV Miniseries "The path to 9/11" but only the sequences shot in Morocco.

A lot of armorers are just the 'licensed experts' on the set. They subrent their guns from large armories. That's why I don't have screen credit for many majors I worked on, since I wasn't the on set armorer, I just rented them the guns (like any vendor) and we only rent to armorers (aka weapons wranglers) that we know and trust. I think Robey got the guns from Bapty's movie armory of London (just an educated guess).

When I was going to school at Cambridge University (a long time ago) I did get to visit Bapty's Armory (got to see a lot of the guns used in all those movies shot at all those BIG British Studio stages - like the 007 movies). Well the Romak 223 is the import name for the 'castrated' gun that our lovely BATFE allows to be imported. The romanians made a bunch of identical guns for sale to other countries where civilians can own semiautomatic rifles. I noticed that Zahn's gun had (a) a threaded front end of the barrel and (b) a bayonet lug, which usually imported guns after 1990 had to have removed. So it's probably a Romanian export gun that the British armorers picked up that has not been modified to be imported into the U.S. Sigh.... to be able to get such unaltered guns again. Now we have a bunch of US makers upgrading and making their own AKs, but I like the 'appeal' of getting stuff that's really FOREIGN and foreign built in a factory in a far off land. Even though the lowly British law abiding citizen can't own Squat, their movie armorers can get almost anything they need. UNLIKE the U.S. (especially California) which makes it more difficult to be a movie armorer every year.

BTW: I uploaded a detail shot of the Type 84 with the features I was talking about. I hope it helps.

best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Sahara

Thanks for the help on the typo with the Norinco Type 56-1. As you probably know by the time stamps I edited that at 2:00 am PST and was pretty tired. Thanks for catching stuff like that.

But Zahn's gun is not the Type 84 despite the fact that the gas tube has vent holes like the Type 65/84 guns. The Type 84 is a deep blued finish, this gun has the semi gloss black paint finish of European AKs, the Magazine is NOT a Type 84 (not even close), but it does resemble the newer Romanian Romak 223 magazines (thus my question), and the front sight is an open top European AKM style, not the hooded .75" spaced Type 84 Front sight and finally the gas block is missing a notch that the Type 84 has and it looks lke the front sight sling is attached to the front of the handguards (AKM) and not on the gas block (Type 84). I looked at a Type 84 before I posted the pics, so I am sure that it is NOT a type 84, there are too many differences that an armorer just wouldn't do (like repainting a blued gun or replacing the front sight or using a magazine that I am not sure would even fit in the magazine well). In fact if they did replace the Type 84 front sight block with an AKM sight, you would be able to see the notch in the top of the barrel of the second pin for the wider front sight. It would be visible. The smaller AKM sight doesn't cover it on the barrel. So again I will try to figure out what type of AK it is. Since Sahara is a newer movie it would well be a recent US built or US part upgraded imported AK rifle.

ON another note:

So what do you think of the screen caps? I purposely kept the Zahn pics big temporarily so the details of the gun could be seen. But i've noticed that whenever I work hard on a largely ignored page, THEN people start tweaking it, after I've put in hours working on it and before I'm finished :) what's up with that? Just the way things work I guess. :)

(But YOUR input is always welcome. I haven't shot any new gun pics yet. I usually wait until I have several dozen items to photograph before I go through the trouble of setting up a white background). Best regards MPM2008

Thanks for the help

Thanks for helping out on some of my articles, specifically The Siege and Star Trek: Voyager. I just recently got the ability to take screenshots from DVD's on my computer, but don't have either of those. Keep up the good work. Orca1 9904 20:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Guns in The Siege

You actually got a picture of the Browning M2 in one of your M60 screenshots, namely the one where it's being fired during the Redhook chop shop scene. As for the M203, look closely at one of the soldiers keeping the press mob out of the stadium. Also, don't forget the H&K MP5's during the bus hijacking/bombing scene. Orca1 9904 21:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Here's the screenshot in question; the barrel is definitely too long to be a Mk 19 grenade launcher. Note that it also lacks the muzzle brake as well.

File:Vlcsnap-182525.jpg

Orca1 9904 21:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Good to have you back. :)

Backups are automatic and daily now - 4 am every day and automatically uploaded to seperate servers for archival. :)

You can't merge a page - but you can copy all the content from one to another and then drop a line to an admin to redirect the old page to the new one. WikiSysop 03:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I've redirected the pages you requested. WikiSysop 14:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

hello

Hi there. Just thought I'd seek to clarify the Red Dawn discussion, per your suggestion.

The MISR may have been the Egyptian's name for the gun in their factories overseas (several books refer to it, Clinton Ezell's book mentions it in 1986), but my point was that the Egyptians never marked or called their export gun to the U.S. - the MISR. In fact the only MISR guns that were legally imported into the U.S. (marked MISR) were after 1990 and they were 'post ban' guns, hastily hand 'etched' with the words "MISR" on the trunion.

I was probably nit picking since I don't know if alot of people really cared which import version was used in what movie. I wouldn't really care, BUT ... when people say MISR, everyone here in the states, automatically thinks of the post 1990 thumbhole monstrosities, not the better crafted ARMs of the early 1980s. I know for a fact that Syd Stembridge (who worked on Red Dawn and I spoke to about it) scoffed and thought of the crappy 'post ban MISR rifles' when I mentioned it to him. He said "Nope, we used ARMs not MISRs". So even he was thinking about the MISR imported gun. Hmmmmm.

Does it matter? I don't know. I'm tempted to edit out the discussion entirely, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps a note addressing what the imported versions actually had stamped on them (and had written in their owners manuals). What do you think?

A little bit of my background: :)

I was buying Maadi rifles back in 1983 (before Red Dawn came out). Thus I remember what they were called at the time. At no time had I ever seen the rifles referred to a MISR back in 1984 or earlier. Sales brochures, invoices, company documentation. That's really the only reason I was convinced that Maadi did not ship guns to US under that name.

I own nearly every variant of AK imported into this country prior to 1999. That includes ARMs, RPLs, MISRs, AKS-47, Type 84s, Type 56 Sporters, MAK-90s, SA-85s, Yugo M76s, etc. etc.

Any way. You've done a GREAT job updating and posting things. I don't want to give the impression that I don't realize that you're a super contributor.

Any way, keep up the fantastic work. :) and looking forward to your thoughts re: the re-edit of the page.

best regards MoviePropMaster2008

I am re-editing Red Dawn

It just hit me. I can cut out all my rantings and just put in a note, that the MISR rifle is not referring to the post ban imported version call the 'MISR' and was imported under the name ARM. If that's okay, I'll cut out all the stuff under your original paragraph. Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008

Type 84

No problem. I will be happy to hunt down the Type 84 (the vault is big and kinda a pain to go through) ;) . I converted a bunch to AK74 though (i.e. put on the imported Russian parts and gas tubes, front sights, etc. to make them 'look' like AK74s. But I might have one left that is not all messed up. I don't believe that I have any left that retain the original Chinese 'fully enclosed' sight hood any more, unfortunately. Will this do? I can also put the original factory wood back on for the photo. Do you want it in original factory configuration? I can also put it into the SAME config as any of the movie or projects you want it for (i.e. put hungarian Blonde wood on them, etc.). Just let me know. It might take some time, though. I have to set up the photographic white table top setup all over again and will probably wait until I have a bunch of guns to photograph before I do it again. best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Incredible Hulk Grenade Launchers

I was under the impression the multi-shot grenade launchers in The Incredible Hulk were some sort of Milkor MGL derivative, like the M32? Orca1 9904 22:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

My two cents on the Hulk Launchers

It looks like the back end of a Def tech 37mm launcher but the front end of a M32. Also the cylinder (and rotator mechanism) doesn't look like anything out there. It's too short to be the DEFTECH but the rotator gear is in the back, not the front, like it should be on the M32. The Milkors have a 'pop up' back end and the style of the buttstock looks completely different. I think it's a "Frankenstein gun" - perhaps the prop dept. took several Deftech 37mm launchers and chopped and styled them to resemble the M32. Check out the comparison pic and let me know what you think. :) Best regards MoviePropMaster2008| (P.S. - I don't hang out with the armorers in Canada being that we never cross paths. I wish I could so that I could ask them).

File:Hulk-Launcher-Comparison1.jpg

I'll send you a pic of that very launcher from the shop.

Your CZ99 pic

I cleaned up your CZ99 pic in Photoshop. It's the same pic, but color corrected. Can I repost it? Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008

Editing Dogs of War

I am thinking of doing some more updates on Dogs of War, hope you don't mind. ;) GOOD CALL! on the "imitation" Uzis in "Raw Deal" and "Stripes". In Stripes I thought you were talking about "Winger" (Bill Murray) but he was holding an unadorned MAC-10, but you were right, it was Joe Flaherty as the Czech border guard who had the "uzi cover" on the MAC-10. You have an eagle eye! Most people would have missed that one! Those guns were 'conversions' made by Special Effects Unlimited, Inc. in the 1970s. The company did mostly pyrotechnics (Stembridge, Ellis Mercantile and ISS were the kings of 'just guns' back then) and in the movie Dogs of War, they simply didn't have enough real Uzis. (In the 1970s it was pretty hard to get real uzis, IMI just wasn't importing them in big numbers. The import explosion came during the 1980s. Movies like Uncommon Valor, Red Dawn, Rambo, Commando, Death Wish 2-5, etc. all fueled an "action movie flood" that also included all of the really crappy GOLAN&GLOBUS movies like the post apocalyptic movies or the Chuck Norris Movies. Special Effects Unlimited went away in the early 1980s. When I got into the biz, there were about 30 movie gun rental houses and hundreds of trained wranglers in California. Now there are about five rental houses, with less than a dozen independent wranglers. Thanks to the draconian gun control that California shoves down our throat every year. No wonder the movies are all filming in Canada or Australia. Their armorers don't have the BS that we have to deal with. :(

One of the interesting things is the 'work arounds' that movie armorers do. We don't have access to every gun or destructive device that comes down the pipe in the real world. A lot of times the stuff just isn't available when a movie is being made, so we have to 'fake it'. I remember having to 'fake' the Steyr TMP out of a Cobray M11 because the TMP had just come out and the film's director 'just had to have it', but it wasn't being imported into this country yet. I had a model builder mold a dummy and then cast it as two halves of a clamshel mold and screwed it on to the M11. hahahaha.

You and some of the other guys have done a great job on that page!!! I love the screen caps, if I knew how, I'd do it too :D I don't know if my 'overabundance of information' on the background of a movie is either 'wanted' or 'necessary'. Feel free to edit if my info seems irrelevant, but I always try to 'keep it short' :) I think I can photograph some of the actual guns from DOGS of War, unfortunately they've been refinished, some have been altered. I'll drop a note when I get to take the pics and post them. :)

MoviePropMaster2008

Raw Deal page and other thoughts

You have to put up the Raw Deal page(!!) I was going to do it, but you have all the cool screencaps! :)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Note that from this angle, the barrel is obviously a thin metal tube (just enough to extend the MAC-10 barrel). It's not thick enough to be a 9mm or .45 acp barrel. Great screencap! :) BTW: those were 9mm MAC-10s not the .45 acp MAC-10s. The nines were easier to blank adapt, and the blanks had that nice hot white flash in front. They look identical, except for the markings on the receiver.

I'm holding off putting the AKM shot in the Red Dawn Page. I'm still looking for one with an original Laminated buttstock. I'm positive I can take a pic of an 'undamaged' one. Thanks again for your input. :) It's been a little slow in the biz, but next week I might be getting some gigs, and in July I'm traveling on some projects so I will be gone. best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Type 56

(Warning: this is from my own recollection and not official in any way) :)

Hmmm. it's a tough one. Since there is no 'official' designation it's hard to figure. And what always throws me is the 'official name' of the gun around the world and the 'official imported' name of the gun when it was sold here in the United States. Since this is a 'guns in the movies' site, I usually throw out the book on the 'official international nomenclature of the guns as used by foreign armies' and noting what the guns were called when movie weapons armorers were bringing them to the movie set. But the trend on the site, so far, has been to list the guns as what it's supposed to be representing (like calling obvious AR-15s, "M16s") in the real world. I just like to have some sort of footnote as to what weapons were actually used and what they were really called. :)

I've always regarded the 56 as a 47 offshoot. I don't think the other armorers have given it much thought, but I know that they'll always refer back to the AK47, not the AKM when anyone asks them what the Type 56 is based on.

I'll list my criterion and let me know what you think.

Now we all know that the Chinese barrels are slightly different in diameter to all the European barrels but for the most part, the Chinese Type 56 parts are clones of the 47 not the AKM.

1) The Chinese started their Type 56 copy with milled receivers. Around the 1960s the Soviets changed to stamped receivers in the 'modernized' AKM. The Chinese thought that was a good idea, and began production with stamped receivers, but everything else remained the same.

(a) the front sight (.75" versus .5" width for the AKM)

(b) the gas block (the angle AND the fact that it is not "notched" for gas release like the AKM)

(c) the Gas tube (the AK47s have vent holes, the AKMs do not)

(d) the Gas tubes are NOT interchangeable between the AKM and the AK47/Type 56 (I've tried, the angle of the back of the gas tube is different)

(e) the pin placement in the receiver itself (the AK47 and the AKM have different pin placements)

(f) the smooth versus ribbed dust cover

(g) the wood furniture (the AK47 & Type 56 have smooth side crate wood - the AKM has bulged grip laminated - the buttstocks have a different comb and are different types of wood)

(h) other than the wood for the gas tube and the pistol grip, the wood forearm and buttstock are NOT interchangeable between the AK47/56 and the AKM - you need to 'fit' the wood with a rasp and file.

(i) in the underfolder stock versions the stocks of the Type 56 & AK47 are interchangeable, you need to modify them slightly to fit the AKM underfolder. Also the Underfolder 'arms' of the AK47/56 are smooth, the AKM underfolder arms are 'ribbed'.

(j) the pistol grips for the 47/56 were wooden with a metal border near the receiver, the AKMs were all composite or plastic grips. This doesn't take into account the dealers or importers who may have swapped grips on their own, I'm just talking about the way they were exported off the factory floor.

(k) I don't know if this is official or not, but I've personally tried to swap the bolts from AK47s/Type 56s and AKMs and the AKMs 'stick' when put into the 47/56 guns. The gun doesn't cycle (and it's probably not all that safe 'headspace' wise (hahaha), but it's a lot safer when all you're shooting is blanks.....). It could be the bolt carrier and piston assembly, but I've noticed that as well.

This is only based on my personal experience, but I'll bet that no one else on the board is as dopey as me and has tried to swap parts between an AKM and a Type 56 and wondered what went wrong ;) hahaha I DO know that we've fixed broken Chinese guns (from the 1980s) with original Soviet AK47 parts kits and the other cosmetic parts did fit (though we had to take into account the slight size difference between the Chinese barrels and all other AKs).

So in my thinking, the only difference between the Type 56 and the AK47 (other than the obvious Chinese 'style flourishes') is the stamped receiver. Since the AKM instituted a lot more other changes than just a stamped receiver I just consider the Chinese Type 56 series to be a stamped receiver version of the AK47, not the AKM. All the details other than the receiver are "AK47".

Also there is the confusion of how the imported guns were stamped. ALOT of the imported Chinese guns armorers bought in the 1980s were marked "AK47", not AKM. I have samples of Norinco AK type rifles in the 1980s, imported by B-West that are marked either: Type 56, Type 56S, Type 56 Sporter, Sporter 56, AK-47, AKS-47, AKS Sporter, AKS-47 Sporter. The vast majority of guns were indeed stamped AK-47 or AKS-47. (I can take a pic of the marks on the receivers to send to you). So many of the imported Chinese guns were marked AK-47/AKS-47 (as a marketing ploy by the manufacturer since they doubted that most of the American buying public would have any idea what a Type 56 was).

footnote: Only after the import ban of 1989 did we see names like the MAK-90, the NHM-90/91, et. al, those were the first 'thumbhole monstrosities' to enter the country from China.

Since those of us who were buying the guns never referred to them as an offshoot of the AKM, but of the AK47, thats how I've always viewed them. But there is no hard and solid rule. The Chinese guns are their own 'platypus' hybrid.

That's just my 'reasoning' on it, but again, since the Chinese guns are 'hybrids' it doesn't really matter. As long as the rifle types are listed 'SOMEWHERE' on the site, with notations as to what movies they were used in. As has been noted by others, the Chinese guns are by and far the most COMMON AK type to be seen in TV and movies bar none. They were the most plentiful and cheap when they first came out. I know of a prop house in L.A. that was trying to sell of over 400 of them, because they were going out of business (owner died, sons didn't want to continue the family biz).

Again, sorry for my long post. Again, I sometimes wonder, 'when is too much information too much?" I don't want to confuse the users of the site, but the reality is really complex. :) Now don't get me started on the massive 'periodic chart' known as the 'Smith & Wesson Handgun naming chart'.... yeow!!!!

I sure hope it was in some way helpful and informative. :)

re: Type 56

Yes, no offense please! :) hahahaha I figured you already knew all the details, but I had to list them just to make sure that I remembered all of the points which brought me to my original conclusion. :) I also remembered the problems of trying to swap the pieces in the past and the total headaches they caused! Hahahaha.

RE: the new page for just Chinese guns - FANTASTIC idea! I didn't think of that myself and would have pretty much yielded to whatever categorization that you thought best, but that's a great solution. Are there any SysOps or other super contributors we need to check with? so that they don't start undoing the page?

On another note: I will try to take a pic of an unadorned Type 84 by late Thursday night. Is there any other weapon that is not properly represented on this site that I could try to track down and photograph?

Again, always a PLEASURE to discuss stuff with you. And I'll yield to what you think is best. :) best regards MoviePropMaster2008

New Images

Sorry about the delay in the Type 84 pics, but I can't seem to locate the .223 steel magazines. It doesn't look right without it. I will continue to hunt for the correct magazines and get the pic. I just went to the vault and photographed a BUNCH of new stuff. I am also using the pics for marketing purposes, i.e. so that I can email art directors and producers/directors my own images so that they know what the gun looks like, but I am trying to get IMFDB a bunch of ORIGINAL pics found no where else. :) No airsoft guns here. :) All real deal. More to come.

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FN Mag 58

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M249 Paratrooper model

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MAC-10

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Ruger MP9 stock extended

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Ruger MP9

Updates

cc'd to: MT2008, Orca1 9904, Charon68 and others... :) I've been trying to get higher rez original pics to IMFDB for a little bit now. One of the major beefs I have with site like Security arms.org or Guns of the world.ru is that there are some really crappy pics, and lots of those pics are weird hybrid variations that are not good representations of the mainstream version of the firearm. Though I've had some nice comments from a few folks, I need to verify that it's kosher to try to eliminate the bad resolution 'stolen from the net' pics and replace them with original photographs. (granted permission by me the copyright holder) Don't know if I am stepping on anyone's toes or if anyone would be offended that I replaced their image (which was 'borrowed' from the net originally) with another image. If anyone thinks I should NOT be replacing pics on existing pages with new gun images, please let me know. Do the majority of IMFDB users even care? I'm fully expecting other sites to start stealing images from IMFDB when the level of pics goes up. :) hahahaha.

Zastava

I just did it because the Ak page was just getting too huge, and so many Chinese Aks were being used in films to "portray" Russian AKs that it made sense to put the Chinese guns in there. The QBZ-97 is just bullpup versions of AKs but it gets its own page. The Yugo AKs are really different from the other AKs, not as much as the Czech VZ58 which is an entirely different firearm. I know folks want to keep items to one page with a lot of variants, but I thought the entire series of Yugoslavian guns (all the way from the M70 to the M92 and their RPK variants) deserved their own page. You never see the Yugoslavian guns 'masquerading' as Russian or Chinese guns. They are always seen as weapons from the Balkans or Bosnian conflict. Of course the powers that be can always slam me down ;) But I figured it was worth a shot. :)

Let me know what you think. :)

BTW: on another note, I was going to suggest to the senior staff that pages like the KVAR's bullpup kit for the AK (as seen on the gun page Century Arms AK-47 bullpup doesn't merit a different page since it is just a commercial after market stock kit that goes on any AK and itself is not a weapon itself. The same goes for the Muzzelite MZ14 Bullpup ... there is no such thing as a Muzzelite MZ14. It is a plastic aftermarket bullpup stock kit that can go on either a Mini14, a 10-22 or a Marlin Camp 9 carbine. It has only ever been seen in movies with a Mini-14 inside. It does not merit a separate page since it is not a real gun, but a stock kit for an existing gun (i.e. the Mini-14). Curious to know what you think of that as well. :) Always good to hear your input.

Re: Lord of War

I believe the 400px size is just fine for screenshots, as it's usually big enough to give a good view of what's being shown in the image, and you can always click on the image to view it larger if you want. You don't see full-size images posted in articles on Wikipedia, after all. Orca1 9904 19:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

Hey

Hey MT2008, I'm Alienqueen11, I seen your comment on my talk page about the most guns in movies like District B13, and I would like to wish you good luck with your Hard Boiled and beating the records for most guns. I work on this site myself once in awhile, the reason you don't see me much on here is because I'm not as active on this site as I used to be, but I still like to do some screencappping once in awhile. I also want to say you take good screenshots and make great pages, so keep up the good work. Also, are you going to do Belly and Boyz n the Hood again? not that I'm trying to rush you to do them, I'm just wondering. And again keep up the good work. Alienqueen11

Hey again

Hey, no problem, and good luck with everything. Good work on cleaning up the Beretta page, it looks much better. Also, you said you like Taurus PT92s, right? Well, I uploaded a screenshot with a very nice looking one for the Shooter page a week or two ago if you want to check it out. Alienqueen11

Yep, I'm one of moderators, as well as Orca, who I'm sure you met already. if you have any problems with anybody vandalizing or spamming your pages, or anything on this site, just let me know. Alienqueen11

To space out pages, I notice some people just space out the variants as much as they need to until they get the desired effect, it's worth a try. Thanks for complimenting Shooter by the way, I myself like the Berettas, I always liked the way they look. And about the M1911A1 page, yeah, that page does need work, especially with all those variants that nothing listed for them. Anyway, good luck with the pages, and I'll be sure to help out as much as I can. Alienqueen11

Question

Hi MT2008, I was just reading over your profile (because I like to know those I work with) and I noticed the M1911/M1911A1 isn't to be found on your favorite guns page. I'm not trying to preach it to you or anything, but I practically worship the handgun. John M. Browning, possibley the most ingenius gunmaker of all time, pretty much birthed the conventional self-loading pistol. This pistol was so good, it still stayed in US service up until Desert Storm, when the M9 took over (not exactly a loved desision today). Keep in mind, the blowback locking breach action of Browning's 1911 has been used in glocks, USPs, Berettas, and many other handguns today. You can say it is really the grandfather of all handguns. Yet it can't truly be beaten in basic design. His idea was so good, it still is unbeaten today 97 years later. It's simple, reliable, versatile, accurate, powerful, and it hold 7 shots... my lucky number. And capacity isn't a problem with the Para-Ordinance models anymore. Whoops, this strayed from being a question. Like I said, I don't mean to preach, but I just thought I'd let you know. (Plus, Browning thought up that frame mounted slide stop safety you like so much on the PT92.) As always, I like your work and your a great contributor to the site. Keep up the good work, and take in mind what I said. (Note how I wrote an essay on the .45 on the page. All that from well remembered memory. Double checked of course.) Gunmaster45

U.S. Marshals Screenshot Needed

Hello, I was wondering if you could help me with something? I noticed that you got most of the screenshots for U.S. Marshals, and I was wondering if you could get one of Robert Downey Jr. from it, possibly with him using his Taurus PT945 or Glock 22 for the article on that actor? It would be greatly appreciated.

Orca1 9904 06:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Photo request for SIGP226

Funny that you'd ask. I tried swapping them in the past. They don't fit. They're the same guns, but the finishes throw the tolerances all off. I can't get a silver slide to even FIT onto a standard black frame and vice versa. I may be able to FORCE it, but the gun won't be fireable. Any two toned guns you see, were either fixed and fitted by a really good gunsmith or were finished by the factory. But it's impossible to swap slides and frames on those guns if they're of different finishes.

MT2008's question re: Colt Launchers

Though I may be wrong, I have not heard of a COLT manufactured 37mm launcher. They may have made one, but it is not well known and I can't find any independent verification of it but then I haven't scrutinized all products made by Colt. The photos on the page show a 37mm launcher, but I can't see any Colt markings. These look like the ones that were made by RPB/SWD and of course Cobray as far as I know. Also I know for a fact that 99.99% of the M203 launchers seen in movies are COBRAY manufactured CM203 37mm launchers. Sometimes we pull out the REAL destructive Device M203 (I have access to several) when a film specifically asked for one where they can see more details (the real M203 is a rifled barrel, the 37mm flare launcher is a smooth bore, amongst other differences) but most of them are Cobray 37mm launchers. I will of course yield if I can be pointed to an independent info source or web page that specifically confirms a COLT marked 37mm launcher but right now, I can definitely tell you that all of the 'fake 40mm launchers" I've seen on movie/television sets are Cobray or RPB or SWD manufactured 37mm launchers. I'm pretty sure anything built by Colt would have the Colt logo stamped on the item. If you verify any info on Colts, please pass it along :) Sigh. On another note, I guess I will have to photograph my M203s in detail for this site as well. MPM2008

(Edit), Well I've been looking for a while and even checked the full listings of weapons currently manufactured and distributed by Colt Inc, Colt LLC or any of the other possible names for COLT. As far as I know, Colt does NOT make 37mm Launchers. Why should they? They make the 40mm Launchers. I've done a google search and as far as 30 pages in, I've never found ONE reference to a 37mm launcher that was not a Cobray/SWD/RPB manufacture or the M203 Airsoft model (which some gun writers, or sellers wrongly confuse with a flare launcher.)

I am in support of eliminating the Colt Flare Launcher page, since I can find no evidence to support it. Please reply and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Hope you don't think I'm badgering you. Just trying to be thorough. :) re: research into the CFL page. Anyway, I really gotta run now, I got tons of weapons to organize and deal with.... and people are waiting for me. :) Thanks again. MPM2008

Reply

About the Mossberg 500s, I believe a cruiser comes standard on the gun, os they are most likely 500s with pistol grips or they had the heat shields removed.

More pics

Hope you like the new pics. I've been going NUTS photographing M16s hahahahaha and I finally uploaded the M14 pics that Gunmaster Requested :) Hey, I even got a Diemaco C7 ! ;) I will try to get a shot of THAT. :) I can only do a few weapons a day since it takes longer than expected to photograph them. I did finally get to photograph my Remington PSS 700. I hope to do the Type 84 sometime soon, but I have to tear some of them down to original configuration and that takes some time. I want to get better M4 Pics and M4 with accessories. I am also going to photograph more of my FALS and G3 variants when I get the chance. And I will try to figure out a way to do your P226 shots. :) Best regards MoviePropMaster2008.

XM177

Some good news. I now have Every variant of the original XM177s. It took a while since so many of them were in 'pieces'. Including at least three variations of the 'fake' XM177s that we see in movies like Blood Diamond. I am really looking forward to posting good shots of all the XM177 guns. I think that IMFDB is the only place on the web that will have these pics. I may have to get an airsoft gun just to show the difference, since so many of the shots here on IMFDB are airsoft guns (ugh!). MPM2008 (Edit: Damned IMFDB logged me out in the middle of my post to you! Weird). Well It's really ME typing this, not some unknown IP address.)

Re: Beretta

Thanks for the correction, the 92 FS thing was from the other articles I copied and pasted from to get things done faster, but I'll be sure to use the correct spelling for now on. And thanks for uploading the Beretta used in the film, it's very cool. Also, what do you think of Die Hard with a Vengence now? --Alienqueen11 22:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There you go, I uploaded the scene you talked about and noted that they were really BB guns, let me know if the screencap is good enough--Alienqueen11 23:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

RE:Dirty Harry

That's what I meant by in full, by actually screencapping the movie 100% second by second. I never understood why people would screencap half a page and then stop, is it lazyness or something? I always go second by second through a movie and grab as many good shots as possible. To me, you can never have too many shots of one gun, as my 15 AKM shots in Rambo II will show soon. I also had plans to eventually add some shots to Saving Private Ryan like how I added shots to BB2 and Black Hawk down just to make it more full and maybe tears of the sun. I'm kinda sick today but I'll try to get Rambo II uploaded as soon as I can.

Re: Your comment on the Rambo II HK93

Though that is a reasonable assumption, there is no evidence that the gun was a 93. When I was at the Stembridge gun room in the 1980s I distinctly recall that there were as many HK33s as there were HK93s. I know, nowadays, that seems weird, but not so weird when we could import anything we wanted back in the day.... Thanks. The guns which were TONS of conversions were the MP5s (originallyi HK94s), AR15s into M16s and ARMs/Type 56s into full auto AKs. Just noting ... BTW: Now that I submitted a shot of my HK33, I'm photographing my HK93. Sure hope folks (other than you :) ) appreciate all the original gun pics .... hahaha. best regards, MPM2008

Finally put the MP5A5 in

That's been bugging me for a long time. The MP5A5 picture wasn't even an A5. Finally got the correct pic in. :) Am staring at a rack of shotguns that I have to photograph for the site, but gotta get to it. :)

Saving Private Ryan

What do you think of the new and improved Saving Private Ryan page? -GM45

Thanks, I can't stand watching the debates but I thought I'd share how I own an M1 Garand myself. A battle hardened Garand that served in WWII and was then Re-Issued in Korea. It is fitted with the Korea era sling. And the best part. Only $600 bucks! I had a WWII guns phase and me and my father did a lot of searching. Still wish I could get an M1A1 Thompson and a B.A.R. Too hard to get cheap and legal though. -GM

I also have two clips for it in my room, one of which is load with dummy rounds so I can cycle it. Most people think the clip pings when it hits the ground but it pings as it leaves the gun. Also, the little button on the left side allows you to do what some rocking chair commandos say is immpossible. RELOAD. Pull the bolt back and press it and the clip pops out no matter how loaded it is. I can also field strip it and clean it. It shoots nice too.

And on the A-Team page, I sent a message to Bunni on how only registered users should be able to edit the site. Unregistered users should only view. It would make all our lives a lot easier, don't you think? I'll fix it now.

Garand Pics

My M1 rifle:

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M1 Garand rifle with En-Bloc clip, loaded with dummy rounds.

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The gun is too long for one clear shot! This is the barrel end, note '50s era Korean war sling.

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The En-bloc clip loaded half way in the Garand.

Pretty cool, huh? I'm gonna upload more on my page so everyone can see my neat stuff.

==Edit-- Removed the old Airsoft pic of the 870 . :) MoviePropMaster2008 22:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Ask and Ye shall Receive

This is the best I can do. My Sigs aren't exactly the same as some of the movie guns by other armorers. They ARE blank adapted movie guns and they ARE well worn, due to abuse by actors and stuntmen but we all know that. :) Can you use these? You're the first one to see them. I haven't even added them to the SIG page because they're special pieces.

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Two Tones part 2

Thank you SO much! Those look great, and actually, they look very close to the ones that have appeared in quite a few movies. We can start replacing the two-tone SIG pics that we have on our other pages with these immediately! Again, I greatly appreciate you doing this for me.

Here is another one. I forgot to swap out the silver hammers (based on the pic with John Travolta, so here is one. I've seen it in every configuration. Sometimes the factory does it, so there are lots of opposite color highlights (trigger, breakdown pin, safety, etc.) and then there are the simple 'swap the barrel & Slide' variety.

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Two tone Sig P226 with SILVER HAMMER this time

How will I ever repay you?

Lots of booze, gold and women... ;)

Out of curiosity, since you told me that they usually don't fit, how did you make them work together? -MT2008

Oh they fit, but you have to force it and they won't cycle. The black slide SIG, when you pull the slide back (you have to pull it HARD) it won't even move forward. You have to tap it with a mallet to make it slide forward to cycle a round. Also you can fire one blank out of the gun and the slide will 'stick' back even with a full magazine. Unless the factory does it (which they do) you have to take it to a smith to 'fit' the parts. Fun Huh? MoviePropMaster2008

Casino Royale

Uh dude. you're right and that other guy is wrong. No way it's a Zastava M76. I think there is a foreign name for the WASR 3 gun (the one NOT imported into the US), but I don't know what it is. Robey can get all that stuff that good old' BATF won't allow into this country. :( Check out the flash hider, the front sight, the foregrip and the grenade launcher sight. What confuses a lot of people up is that Zastava also has a dragunov like SNIPER rifle also called the M76.

File:Zastava-M76.jpg

Zastava M76 Rifle - 5.56x45mm

XXX

The MP9 is seldom seen in the movie and the non-screenshot pic is better than the shots in the movie. She fires it eyes closed and the muzzle flash and smoke make it hard to see (in pretty much the only scene she uses it). I pretty much took what I could get. -GM45

Where Eagles Dare

Nice job so far, you've gotten a lot done very quickly. It certainly looks more filled out then it did before. It wasn't even in proper format to the site. Keep up the good work, I'll look at it more when I finish Kelly's Heroes. -GM45

Bad Boys II P226

About the Bad Boys II page, should we use the Two Tone P226 with the black hammer for the P226 section? I'm asking this because I noticed the hammer was black on Martin Lawrence's P226, it's entirely up to you because I figured you might want it to look as much like the gun in the film as possible.--Alienqueen11 19:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Need some help

Hello, I just added a few more guns in The Unit page and I need some help IDing some of them that I can't seem to put my finger on. Care to give me a hand if you can?

-Excaliber

Re:Beretta M92FS

I just started doing the honors (forgot to log in of course), And thanks for telling me if there were any differences between them. I'm going to watch Heroes for an hour now, but I'll get right back on replacing the images when I get back.--Alienqueen11 01:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Should cartoons be allowed?

I want to know if it is either no one cares about the fact that cartoons like Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and recently South Park had been allowed to this site. I have don't think these pages should exist because do you think about the rare guns that appears on those shows and wonder what they are? Cause I sure don't. I'm too busy laughing my ass off to how funny these series are, not wondering if the shotgun Homer used in the Zombie episode was a Winchester Model 1887 or that it never appeared in any other episode following. I don't care and I dont think anyone else should care. We're getting cartoon fanboys that thinks just because Family Guy has an episode where Stewie has a closet full of look alike guns, means we should write a page about them. Those guns are not the point of the show and the artist that drew them obviously didn't take much consideration for them or mention. I think Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and South Park be removed at once. None of them deserve to be on this site. And whoever puts them here doesn't respect this site enough.

New Pics

I'm also curious...what would you think of a page dedicated to explaining the importance of your gun images to new users of the site, and featuring examples of your work? It would be linked from the main page.

Don't know exactly what you mean. I know that some of the mods have had to restore some of my pics in the past when a new member replaced them with a stolen airsoft pics. As far as pointing out the movie guns, Don't know if it's important. Most of the new pictures of guns are indeed movie guns but since I can't confirm what they've been in (I suspect some of the really NICE and clean versions haven't been out at all, being that actors are idiots who break EVERYTHING they touch), I tend to just like having them here as a crisp clean photograph of the gun (and ones that only IMFDB has and no other website does). I tend to keep a low profile but only need to have the most active members (GM45, MT2008, ORCA, Alienqueen, Bunni, Excal, etc.) in the communication loop for the most part.

If you have a specific idea, let me know. :)

BTW: just came back from ANOTHER shoot. An actor who was just standing there in an open field waiting for his shot, DROPPED, my Colt M4 Carbine with RIS rails, L mount and Aimpoint sight on the ONE patch of concrete (left over from a demolished building from 1900) in an entire field of soft dirt. Literally it was 100 yards of soft dirt and grass and he manages to find the ONE patch of concrete in several acres and drops my gun on it. He cracked the knob of the L mount off the gun. This was a pristine gun and yet another actor finds a way to Fuck it all up. Figures. :(

MoviePropMaster2008

Re: Helping out with replacing pics

Thanks for helping on replacing the new pics with the old ones. Since I have limited time, I spend it mostly grabbing the guns and photographing them. A lot of the guns need to be reconfigured (custom stuff removed, classic buttstocks or flash hiders put BACK on, etc.) Hopefully other members can help with the task of updating some of the older pages. I do it when I see something but since my time is limited I'd rather spend it getting the list of request images done, rather than spending it editing other pages. Thanks.

MoviePropMaster2008

Dawn of the Dead

Hey, I just uploaded some new Dawn of the Dead (2004) screenshots, and I want to know if you can take a look at the custom Remington 870 section of the page, and help me confirm that it is an 870, I'm sure it is, but just want to make sure because MPM2008 says he's going to get a picture of a shotgun in a similar configuration eventually, and he says it appears to have Mossberg style ghost ring sights. Thanks in advance.--Alienqueen11 03:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Disregard, GM45 answered my questions.--Alienqueen11 04:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It's okay, I'm sure you would have did your best. And don't worry, I got your message on the Die Hard 2 talk page, and I promise I'll have some new MP5 shots Friday, and I'm also going to upload some new screencaps for the original Die Hard eventually, and also replace those Youtube quality shots that are on the page now. And also, do you like the new Beretta Inox shots for the Dawn of the Dead (2004) page?--Alienqueen11 22:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh yea, I saw your message on the Beretta M92F talk page, and I approve moving it to a different name since it dosen't really make sense to have it titled "Beretta M92F" when it includes 92Gs and 92SBs. Feel free to move the page whenever you're ready.--Alienqueen11 01:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it'll messed up pages with the original links (atleast I hope not) because the M1911 Series page used to be called 1911 and the Beretta M92F page used to be referred to as Beretta 92 and the links didn't react badly to the renaming back then. I'd say go for it, and if anything goes wrong I'll help fix the links.

And yeah, titles linking to gun pages irks me for the same reasons. Some user who made an account when the site was getting started created that trend, I also hate it because when new users see pages like that, they sometimes get the wrong idea on editing and making pages.

And yes, I'll be more then happy get rid of any pages you don't want. Just send me a list of them, and they'll be gone.--Alienqueen11 02:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

There you go, that should give us a little more server space. I really hate when people create duplicate pages of movies we already have on here, they can atleast check first before making a page. And that Terrorist and Top Ten Rifles pages were of no use to the site, I don't even understand why people create stupid pages like that. Well, anyway, thanks for letting me know about those pages, the site will be better off without them, if you come across anything else, just give me a call.--Alienqueen11 03:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll delete them as I come across them. Also can you do me a favor? Redirect the Shoot to kill page to a properly punctuated title, I would do it, but I don't really know how to redirect pages. Thanks in advance.--Alienqueen11 03:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Also to answer an earlier question, to check what pages or images link to a particular page, go a page such as Beretta M92F, and look in the toolbox, and click on "what links here".--Alienqueen11 03:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem, let me know how it goes once you do.--Alienqueen11 03:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Tybalts Gun

I was wondering if you know where I can find a compensator like the one on tybalts taurus. Thanks

Since this guy is anonymous, I can't message him so I hope you don't mind if I tell him on your discussion board MT. Some sites are www.Gunbroker.com, www.eBay.com, www.Gunsamerica.com. Search, search, and search some more. You'll find whatever you need on those. I got a compensator for my M1911 on ebay. -GM45

I protected all MPM2008's pictures. And yea, that one user is really pissing me off, he dosen't listen and dosen't seem to know a good picture when he sees one. MPM2008 puts too much effort into his images for idiots to upload crappy pictures (Which they probably found on Google) over them like that. Anyway, thanks for reverting the USP image, I also hope to able to block users back soon because I could really use that.--Alienqueen11 03:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Special page

I'm too tired right now to formulate a good response, :) But I will get to that, re the new special page, but I tend to lean away from drawing undue attention to my efforts. :) MPM2008

keeping me honest

Remember if you see an obvious screw up in my updates, please correct it and let me know. I now triple check when someone brings something up. :) I may not have time to do another photo shoot until this weekend. :) MPM2008

Problem fixed

I have good news, thanks to Bunni, we have the ability to block users back, and I also want to let you know that Hieloco is now gone, he'll never be able to upload images, or edit again. By the way, I recommended you and GM45 for positions as moderators.--Alienqueen11 03:26, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The position could still be useful to you in other ways as well. Even if you're unable to catch vandals right away, you can still use the priviledge to delete any pages you don't want or protect them. It's entirely up to you, if you're not interested, just let me know, and I'll tell Bunni.--Alienqueen11 03:47, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Just made you an Admin

You'll now be able to move pages, ban users and protect pages and images. :) WikiSysop 03:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Beretta Inox flashpaper gun

It's funny how you uploaded the ISS Beretta Inox, because I'm making the punisher page now and Travolta uses that gun. -GM

I also have an ISS .45 uploaded on A Beautiful Mind if you need it. -GM

Whatever is easier for you is fine by me. I'll make sure to check it out when your done. - GM

I knew that blanks expanded like that, I guess I just saw what looked like a live round. Whoops. -GM

non guns

Awesome work on the page. Don't know where you got the pics of the devices, but they're very well known around here. And I think they're particularly fugly. ISS is all hot shit on the fact that "They" have the only "NON" guns. Now you know that no one OWNS a Panavision camera. They are all OWNED by Panavision and owners/rental houses/etc. only lease them from Panavision. Just like most of the DOLLIES used in tracking shots, these items are never sold, only LEASED and can be 'recalled' to the parent company at any time. Well NON guns are only available from one place. Other armories cannot ever buy them. We can only subrent them. This new page may not be particularly pretty (the guns are pretty ugly) but it is an important educational element to understanding weapons in films. Usually they're used in places where you can't fire a real gun but need a flash (I filmed in a building right next to a children's hospital and no blanks were allowed), I know of friends who did shoot outs right outside the WHITE HOUSE, and the secret service would only approve of the non guns, and most of the time in NYC, who has such F$*(&ed up gun laws, that most actual gun fire sequences in major motion pictures are done OUTSIDE of the limits of NYC. Great work! IMFDB is getting to be THE definite "weapons in movies" info page!

Pics

Sorry, I've been really SICK for the last ten days and haven't had a time to set up and take pics of guns. When I sit down and rest, i've managed to upload just some files I already had prepared on my computer, but it was just being able to sit down and do stuff that made it possible. Yeah, I know, gun pics are all I'm good for ... ;) Also it's been crazy busy around here. I'm tempted to start making up an "Hello IMFDB" card and start taking pics of actors/actresses in motion pictures holding it and posting them here as a giggle. Usually also holding a movie gun as well. You guys tell me what to put on the card, and I'll start taking it with me to sets, and get famous actors to have their pic taken holding it. I was thinking the IMFDB logo. Again it only works if I can get people to take out a few minutes to do that. The last several productions have been insanely busy and last minute. Usually I get called to the set to bring a gun to an actor, literally SECONDS before the camera rolls. Of course I do a training and practice session if they're firing it, but when I'm handing off an obvious deactivated gun or non firing prop weapon, usually it's totally last minute.

Re: Screenshots

Okay, I'll leave them alone. I also spotted some very good Ronin screenshots that MoviePropMaster uploaded, want me to leave those as well?--Alienqueen11 05:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed some of the Grand Theft Auto 4 pictures that were on the site before the Great Crash, I'll leave them there for use in the future. do you want me to get rid of the old Hulk Screenshots?--Alienqueen11 05:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Good Job, Now that most of them are gone, we should have a ton of room for new and better images. And I agree, seeing how Chaos was, there's no telling how many more extra gun images are out there, I'll be sure to keep an eye for anymore like that because happen to noticed you deleted like atleast three Beretta 92FS pictures. And yea, I really wish people wouldn't upload extra gun pictures, especially when we have the ones MPM2008 taken, there should be no need for them to upload their own images. I'll be sure to check the Revolver page as well.--Alienqueen11 05:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay the ugly gun has a good looking cousin!

you asked for this a long time back .... BTW, got the Type 84S as well ....

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Thanks

Thanks for the PSG pic

Question

I have some SR9 sniper rifles. These were actually 'built' up from HK91 rifles back in the day (alot of the movie guns are 'built' rather than factory stock. I'm sure you know especially the history of the "MP5 versus the HK94 conversions" or the endless "Type 56 versus every AK variant on the planet".) As far as a 'historical reference of the real guns' "Hollywood guns" fall short. My "SR9" upper receivers don't have the forward assist of the actual SR9 guns, but everything else is correct. Is it wrong to post the pics? These guns HAVE been in films and TV shows in the past. The SR9 pictured was in "Nash Bridges" at least once. (edit) and you can see the same SR9 style gun used in SNIPER with Billy Zane, But real gun aficionados might wonder why the upper receiver looks more like a 91 versus an SR9. I will try to get a REAL SR9 rifle and post that pic, but I'm torn, being that we use built up SR9s in American movies and tv shows, though some other armorers have the 'real deal'. MoviePropMaster2008 22:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Type 56 underfolder

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I just saw GOLDENEYE again this weekend on the television and noticed that the 'cuban' soldiers at the end had Type 56 rifles under folder style with those fake AK74 muzzle brakes on them. So I popped a fake AK74 muzzle brake on one of my Type 56 underfolders and took a pic (for the Goldeneye page). Just a note, all of my own bolt carriers have been blued (after the fact). I should have kept some of them 'silver' for times like these. I will try to track down an unmodified bolt carrier and reshoot some of the guns so that they look stock. The Type 84 has a blued bolt carrier and the original factory model does not.MoviePropMaster2008 22:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

SR9s and AKs

The SR9 in the Replacement killers is a built gun. It has a different lower (see the S-F versus the 0-1) but it doesn't seem to have the forward assist that the SR9 should have (look at the PSG1 to see what the forward assist looks like). But 99.99% of the SR9 guns in movie inventories are built guns. I've only seen authentic guns in foreign movies with foreign armorers. I don't have the exact right Buttstock for my 'faux' SR9T. Is that too distracting? It's been used in films as an SR9T despite the fact that it's a SG/1 buttstock. Again, hollywood 'secrets' are being shattered on this site. But this is not a 'history of firearms' site, in as so much as it is a 'Firearms in the movies' site. And the reality of films is way different than that of guns in the real world, many times.

You're right about the Cuban soldiers. I watched it again on DVD and though in some angles (the forest near the satellite dish) the mags seem dark, it could just be the angle. I will change the AK Underfolder shot... MoviePropMaster2008 03:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

SR9

I figured since the SR9 used to be a readily available civilian "assault rifle", armorers would use it.

Available yes, readily available no. Since only 125 TCs were imported into the entire USA and only 100 T models, most of these were snapped up by either law enforcement or collectors. Clinton put a stop to their import since they could accept 'high capacity' magazines. I tried for years ever since they started coming out to get a real one but couldn't just because they were hard to get (at least on the West coast). It also depended on which distributor one was cozy with. Since the rifles themselves were all built on HK91 receivers anyway, it was easier to get the parts and convert existing HK91s. Since THESE guns have impersonated real TC guns I figured why the hell not? The screencap of Billy Zane in Sniper is one of these very guns. MoviePropMaster2008 02:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help on Four Brothers. I think there's also a "Non Gun" Glock in the Glock 17 section if you want to look at that.--Alienqueen11 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

worries

Hope it doesn't bother you that we're unmasking all of the various tricks that you armorers have been using over the years to convince moviegoers they're seeing one gun when it's actually another!

I was just worried about places like the HK forums with all of those HK enthusiasts. What concerns me is that some people in the firearms community, who are purists, won't understand that IMFDB is not a 'gun history' site per se, but a "history of guns in the movies" site. I actually got worried that HK aficionados would be offended that I had posted images of 'built' movie guns that closely approximate a specific gun, like the movie built SR9T guns rather than getting a bonafide SR9T... when I actually stop to think of it. I will really try to get the real deal in a photo (borrow them from collectors if I have to), but in reality, (just like having Type 56 rifles or Maadis impersonate the REAL AKs in films), movie guys impersonate a few guns, just because it was easier to do so at the time. Like the Fake XM8s in xXx:State of the Union, it all seems so 'fake' when it's revealed to the public, kinda like a magician's tricks. As far as bothering me, no, it is information and cinema history that needs to be collected and shared. I just feel a little weird presenting to gun people "Here is a fake Machine gun '_ _ _ _' that we had to build from plastic and metal parts because we didn't have access to the real one (like the DShKs)" If you get my meaning. MoviePropMaster2008 07:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

New pics

Well I finally got the M16A2 done, I'll get the A3 and A4 as well as a Diemaco done soon. Finally I got to replace my old HK91 pic! :) woohoo! there was a shadow on the upper handguard that bugs me. Does it bug you? The lights were too close and didn't cover the entire rifle. It's not a stock HK magazine, though, it's one of those Taiwanese Blued 30 round magazines that were imported in the 1990s. I'm pretty happy though, I think this is one of the best pics of the HK91 on the web right now. ;) MoviePropMaster2008 20:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

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Luger P08

(posted this to Alienqueen as well) :) . I finally posted a pic of one of the Lugers we have in inventory. Apparently this is one of the Luger P08s used on the Television show "Hogan's Heroes" in the 1960s. It sure is beat up. Though that info is third hand is the only reason I don't post it because I don't have the info directly from the source. The Barrel was replaced about 20 years ago for some reason, which is why the finish doesn't match. It's a bit of TV history, thought you'd get a kick out of it. :) MoviePropMaster2008 23:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

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Congrats

Congratulations on the upcoming P226! I wish it was as easy to buy a handgun in NY as it is in Texas. NY sucks with gun laws (gun control laws are bullshit). If my dad wasn't a liscense FFL dealer, I'd have pretty much no chance of enjoying the guns I enjoy now.

I got Last Man Standing finished and I'm going to do Shawshank Redemption and Hotel Rwanda soon. Then I'm going to try to fully do The Dirty Dozen and then I've only got 10 more movies on my list to do. (including the The whole yards movies, some war movies, and Blazing Saddles.) I'll try to get them all done by the end of the month.

P.S. Not to get political, but I hope Biden keeps his Assault Weapons Ban to himself, because not many know he wrote Clinton's ban. If he focuses on gun control during Obama's term, we are majorly fucked (excuse the language). -GM

My father is the same way with assault rifles. He says he doesn't like guns designed to kill. Splitting hairs there. Biden's ban is ridiculous though, he believes any semi-auto gun is considered an assault weapon, including the Browning A5 and the Ruger 10/22! It is foolish and I can't say anything threatening about him because he is VP, but I STRONGLY DISLIKE HIM. [insert uber-insulting text]. I don't understand how people like him make it into office. Dammit, I started a political discussion. -GM

Taurus 85

There's only one that troubles - I think the newer Taurus 85 image is a bit fuzzier compared to the old one.

WTF? try refreshing and looking at the file again. That might fix it. The new pic is way clearer than the old one. :) MoviePropMaster2008 05:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

G3 page

Ugh. Looks like Kin93 added some pics, but I'm not sure if we need to list ones that don't appear in any movie or flick. What are your thoughts? Also the formatting of the G3 page is going all to hell. MoviePropMaster2008 05:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

emasculated guns and a discovery

Well, none of the armorers that I know have those castrated thumbhole HK "Sporting purpose" guns with the neutered forearm (designed to not resemble a "military forearm" woooooo Scary.....). I mean, we don't have pics of all the THUMBHOLE monstrosity AKs (the MAK-90s, the NHMs, etc. etc.) that were imported in the 1990s. Because they weren't used for the most part (I do know of some B movies which had them, but until we list those films, I don't think we should have the pics). It's a bit like all those weird Cutaway shots of guns that have NEVER been in a movie. What's the point? It just clutters the pages and site and doesn't educate anyone about guns in films.

BTW: I found one of those long barreled mystery AK folders I was mystified by in "stealth". Well I don't have it now, but I will try to photograph one when I visit one of my Canadian armorer friends in January. It's the Norinco Type 84 Target Match rifle (with either full stock or folding stock). Very FEW got into the U.S., but they were heavily imported into Canada (that is until the Montreal Massacre of 1989 when that psycho Marc Lépine murdered 14 female students with a Mini-14, however, it took the Canadian government until 1995 to ban Semiautomatic long guns in Canada). So the Canadians had five more years of importing ugly guns than we did. Anyway, my gun control vent is off now ;) I will get a shot of the long barreled Norinco Type 84. :) woo hoo. MoviePropMaster2008 07:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

And yes, we definitely have some of the best gun pics on the 'Net thanks to you. I must admit I'm still smitten with the fact that Norinco Type 84 pics are basically non-existent in just about any gun image site around (even World Guns, which is usually pretty reliable)...except here.

Actually World Guns has pretty crappy photography and I'm pretty sure they jack their shots from other sources as well. That's the reason why I work so hard on the photos. The Net has crap pics of guns. Most of the guys don't know how to take a decent picture (some of the guys take some nice outdoor pics though). I've always liked those Japanese gun magazines with the outrageously sexy product photos of firearms. Those Japanese photographers always knew how to take awesome pics of guns. Anyway I will continue to try to photograph as much as I can. It's still a long while before I 'run out' of guns to take pictures of. I just need to (a) clean some of them up (b)repair some of them or (c) assemble them. As I mentioned before, I have ALL the parts to make all of the correct XM177 models (original USGI parts) but they're all in bins, mismatched. That's one of the things I've always wanted to do, being that so many people screw up and name 'everything' a Colt Commando, when the Commando was a specific type of firearm. Today is a busy day so not much more stuff from me for a little bit. regards. MoviePropMaster2008 19:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen that feature and took some screengrabs from it. I'm going to put those up after I'm done with the movie shots. Thanks for the remainder too.--Alienqueen11 02:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Want me to stop?

Cause I just got Pineapple Express, Wanted, Mummy 3. All these movies. I mean, I got the Incridible Hulk before it came out on DVD, I got Iron Man before it came out. Do you want me to leave disclaimers? Want me to stop?

Fine, I'll stop. And I was actually excited in rewatching Mummy 3 again just to see the guns

Right, but still, I mean if we get screencaps from the DVDs and posted it here, aren't we still taking copyrighted images and posting them? How is doing that and taking something from a bootlegged copy any different?

I didn't say I did, and I didn't write down here if I even took these off of a bootleg movie that I might or might not have downloaded. I could have found a website that I don't remember. I'll stop posting images from something that isn't offical, IE like a DVD but I am going to write it here that just because the evidence points that these might or might not have been from bootlegged material, doesn't mean I did the bootlegging. I don't want to be accused officially and my words written on this site turned against me. I will not admit or deny anything. But I will stop posting photos that can be questioned.

My thoughts. Excaliber01, I would not post anything that has not been officially released. I myself posted pics from the Body of Lies high definition trailer on the web, as well as the Ironman movie , but that was an officially released trailer and was not a bootleg. I've dealt with MPAA and posting images from screen caps, as long as you're writing something 'newsworthy' or 'educational' about the film, doesn't seem to ruffle many feathers. It dances on the line of being 'journalism' if you're writing about the film, not promoting or doing any fan stuff about it, or using it for any self promotion or commercial purposes. After all, how can anyone prove that a particular gun appear in a scene, unless there is a screengrab to prove it? However, anything that can be construed as a bootleg should be avoided. This changes the entire attitude of folks, especially people in the industry and it may direct unwanted attention to IMFDB if we started regularly having proof that a member is posting images from a bootleg dvd. MoviePropMaster2008 07:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The page

Wow. Don't know what to say. I've been gone doing the "gun Thing" the last several days, so I've been offline. thanks! However, I do stay anonymous for a reason. (a) the film industry (and Hollywood in particular) is full of ultra liberal, anti gun persons ... petty and vindictive persons. They think everyone is one of them ... thinks like them ... and those who do not can suffer their wrath, whether it be through pressure or innuendo. There are tons of folks who are blackballed (not officially) but when any powerful individual doesn't like them ... that person 'magically' can't find work... It's probably one of the most dysfunctional industries in existence, save for the "XXX" adult biz. (b) I never draw attention to myself, only presenting my 'cred' when I'm discussing topics or details with other enthusiasts who seem 'serious enough' about the site. I want freedom to post freely without fear of the repercussions of bad mouthing individuals in the biz. Also it's not about me, but what I can contribute to the site. Alot of the armorers stay pretty low key. I'm actually one of the more opinionated ones. We all talk amongst ourselves, but I've noticed that most of the industry biggies (the most famous working armorers) stay very MUM on the topics of politics or gun control. Weird that people would not put 2 and 2 together, i.e. We work with guns ... but we don't support ultra liberal Democrats who want to BAN guns. It's all part of the ignorance of weapons in movies. I don't know HOW many times I've heard "Oh, you don't use REAL guns do you?", or "Oh, the gun bans won't affect YOU!". Which as you know is total bullshit on both counts. Frankly, the powers that be don't give a crap. Most of the industry 'lower echelon people' keep quiet. I have to bite my tongue when I work, but I don't want to have to bite my tongue when I post ;) (c) Some people are 'asshole magnets'. I know a lot of women who have attracted internet stalkers. I, unfortunately have general idiots doing the whole internet harassment thing already (people posting a person's real name, address, phone#, doing weird things like saying they work as a janitor or dropped out of High school (yes both those falsehoods have been posted). It's always disturbing to Google one's own name only to see some asshat smearing you on his blog. The bigger IMFDB grows, and I hope that it grows HUGE, the more google hits will link to the site. I just stay anonymous because I don't want yet another place where morons can figure out who I am (Believe me, YOU guys (the most trusted posters on the site) will probably get that info BEFORE the public, which is fine by me). Also anyone who knows all the armorers and looks at what I say, can easily figure my identity, which again is okay, but I'm already fighting with a particular idiot who is intent on sliming me and my rep on the net, and I dont' want to drag IMFDB into it. Anyway, that's a more long winded explanation. I really appreciate the thought behind the MoviePropMaster Page, but frankly I don't need the credit. You guys give me all the credit I need with your comments on the pics and pages! :) I don't think that the site benefits all that much from the page right now. Just because at this time I'm staying very low key. :) Hope this is understandable. Thanks again. MoviePropMaster2008 05:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Model 29

Well Charon had a pretty good pic on the Dirty Harry pages. The only thing is that I assumed that these were jacked photos. Question: We discussed this before, but it's okay to remove nice pics but ones that are 'jacked from Google' with new original photos as long as the gun is the same make model and configuration? Right? I don't want contributors getting pissed at me for replacing their posted images, even though they themselves just uploaded it from Google. From your conversations with Alienqueen, I assume that the mods agree, replacing all the "net" photos with original IMFDB pics is the standard action, and contributors will have to realize that they didn't 'own' the copyright to the net pics to begin with.

Wiki

So what do you think of that offer? He wrote a very gracious message and was professional enough to make a formal request. I'm on the fence. I take my pics with the intent of having them only on IMFDB. I do have some friends (fellow armorers OR collectors) who have volunteered the pristine examples for photography (since a lot of the movie guns are beat up), that I've allowed to use for their own uses. Ironwood Designs, for example, did the replacement wood on one of the yugoslavian RPKs (that I haven't uploaded yet), and they asked to use that pic for their website, and I gave them permission, since they fixed the broken wood with an exact replica of the original Yugoslavian wood. There are a few people with websites I've given some specific image permission to , but all of these people have helped in the production of the photos in one way or another. So they're different.

Please give me your thoughts. I am not so keen on others using the pics I shot for IMFDB, at least until I can create a watermarked version of the image, ("courtesy of IMFDB", that sort of thing) so people know that the pic was one of the ones from here. I've been watching the web and are actively looking for websites that might pirate these pics. I don't take kindly to people who jack MY pics, so I am ready to email offenders with 'cease and desist' orders ;) Let me know what you think regarding the polite request by the English wiki guy to use my gun images. MoviePropMaster2008 06:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

IMFDB hypocritical? Nah

I would not clamp down as an IMFDB mod, but as the original photographer. I own the copyright of my own photos and have every right to demand that others not pirate my work. I granted IMFDB the rights (in writing on my user page BTW) to use my photos, I know that anyone who jacks the images will hear from me, the copyright holder. As far as jacking images, (a) I only uploaded some images when there was no image and we needed a place holder. I've been replacing these with images I've shot myself, there are almost none left. If the original copyright holder contacts me (or the site) ... that image will be removed immediately (I assume you all agree with me). I would immediately remove any other person's pics if asked. I just worry that others will not comply if I ask for a removal of my own stuff. I can't control the actions of the other IMFDB contributors, but I shot these images FOR IMFDB, so I am quite protective of my intellectual and artistic property.

Also, as indicated by the kind and professional email from that English Wiki guy, I see that others have noticed the image quality of IMFDB gun pics :) I'm just working towards the day when persons start looking here for images of guns, rather than those other gun sites! hahaha. (despite the fact that they have much more technical and historical data on the actual guns). Also this is the only place I can post images of the 'faux' or 'conversion' guns that we use in the biz. No real firearms page would be interested in a fake SR9 or a fake MP5 (made from an HK94) or Star handguns standing in for 1911s, etc. etc. Anyway, I say 'bring em on' if anyone complains. I'm working my tail off to replace all the pics with images that have been granted usage rights to IMFDB (by me). :) Can't wait until we have all the jacked gun pics replaced on the site. ;) Let me know what you think. best regards. MoviePropMaster2008 02:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The Crow

The gun is a chopped Muzzelite bullpup stock that was custom modified to take a shotgun. Mossberg had a Bullpup stock gun (and kit available in the 1980s) but upon closer examination the gun that Ernie Hudson is holding is a Muzzelite for sure.

Also your comments on the accident that killed brandon lee are inaccurate. Believe me, I've been correcting people for YEARS. the gun that shot Brandon Lee was a snub nose Charter Arms .44 bulldog, not the Model 29 seen in the movie. The reason why no one saw it in the movie is because it is from a deleted scene where Funboy (Michael Massee) shoots Draven in front of an all night convenience store. the footage from that entire scene was later destroyed after the investigation. the scene with the .44 bulldog will NEVER be seen by the general public.

Also the gun armorer had nothing to do with the accident. The armorer was wrapped (i.e. sent home) at midnight that night and the gun was locked up in the props trailer (which is a semi truck trailer on most major motion picture gigs that are being shot on location). However, the director (or 2nd unit director) decided to try to film the scene where Massee shoots lee at 4:30 am, well after the weapons master had been 'wrapped' for the day. As is common when dealing with idiot NON gun ownng people, someone loaded the dummy rounds in first (and then dry fired it). The dummy rounds were live (full metal jacket) rounds purchased from a local gun store, and then the rounds were removed with a bullet hammer and all the powder inside was dumped out (the bullet reseated with a reloading press), but the primers remained live, since the director wanted shots of the undented primers. Well, as you know, when you dry fire a revolver with a dummy round (with live primer) the primer explosion is enough to drive the bullet about an inch into the barrel. Someone handed the gun back to the prop handler (who was NOT the gun handler) and said something to the effect of 'this gun is broken'. When another untrained prop handler unloaded the revolver, she did not notice that one of the "dummy rounds" was missing it's bullet head. Again, chain of custody of the handgun was broken yet another time, and no one on the set was trained enough to CHECK the barrel for obstructions, like they should have. They decided to film the scene WITHOUT the gun wrangler (which was fucking stupid since obviously none of these retards knew anything about guns, but this mentality is COMMON in the industry. Non gun owners are the biggest fuckups with guns... as you've heard me bitch about time and time again.

Anyway, come time to film (about 4:00 AM, four hours when they sent the gun handler home because they told him the were DONE filming any firearms scenes) they loaded a full powered .44 bulldog blank in the gun (with that bullet lodged into the barrel) and it obviously had enough force to expel out the round. What is tragic is that Michael massee wasn't aiming directly at Lee, however, the deformation of the round, plus the fact that it was already 'crooked' in the barrel created a non stable bullet flight. It 'arched' on a weird spin pattern and literally curved it's trajectory into Lee. The bullet entered his lower intestines, and because it was spinning in a weird way, tore all the way up his spinal cord (shattering the spinal cord into splinters) all the way up to the base of his neck. Even if he was taken to an E.R. within seconds, the damage was so severe that he would have died regardless of who or what medical facilities were treating him. What is chilling is that the footage shows the scene continuing as if nothing is wrong and the director calling cut, with set assistants walking up and checking on Lee to see why he is being 'so slow to get up'. It was pretty gruesome.

I wonder what it would have been like to be the gun wrangler getting to set the next day, only to discover that the other props people (who knew nothing about guns) had managed to kill the star with their stupidity. BTW, I knew an actor who was roommates with Michael Massee (Funboy). Massee was so traumatized by the incident that he took a year hiatus and hiked across the Canadian wilderness to 'clear his head'. The entire incident was tragic, but unfortunately, a lot of urban myths are posted on the internet about it. The longer time passes, the more inaccurate accounts I read on the net about the incident. Hope this helps. MoviePropMaster2008 04:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Check it out

I think this is the most pristine shot of an AK-104 ever on the net! ;) And only IMFDB has it. :) hahaha. The only inaccuracy is that I didn't have the bakelite 7.62 magazines that are correct on this model, so I used a Bulgarian Waffle Pattern Magazine. If you think it's too inaccurate then I will try to find a mag and repost the image.

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AK-104 - 7.62x39mm

MoviePropMaster2008 01:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

FG 42

damn, that new model looks pristine! Almost weird looking to see one like that. Mine is all beat up (and over 60 years old!) Should I replace my weird looking pic with one of those new ones?(that is if someone I know gets one, I myself aren't interested in the new replica live fire model, but I know other guys who will spend whatever it costs to get one) ;) MoviePropMaster2008 04:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

John Woo qoute

I don't think this line is in the "qoutes" section of the main page, but I like it to be placed in. "Easy to pick up, hard to put down". Obviously refering to guns and ammo. It's a line from the John Woo movie "The Killer" said by Joe, Chow Yun Fat's character

I don't know how to put this qoute into the qoute section of the main page, but do you?

MAC pics

I'm more proud of the MAC-11 (380). Now that page has ALL MPM2008 pics! woo hoo! These are the best pics of these guns on the net so far. Did you see the SIG 550? Again, I think it's the best image of that gun on the entire web as well. I had to build up the MAC-11 since the example was in pieces due to an internal part breaking and no one bothered to reassemble it with replacement parts. I'm on the fence about giving the M-11 it's own page. It is technically derived from the original MAC-11 blueprints, but it was elongated so that the bolt carrier could traverse a longer distance in order to properly cycle the more powerful 9x19mm round. And people always mix it up with the other two guns, so I think that putting them together will help "gun ignorant" people understand that these are all distinct guns and not to mix them up. Oh and BTW, the Cobray M11 9mm magazines don't fit in the Ingram MAC-10/9 9mm guns and vice versa. Completely different designs. Just a trivia note.

I have to take a short break to actually do paid "work" (what's that?) and get back to IMFDB later. I am trying to get Thompson pics, but all our Thompsons are in weird configurations. I've already shot an M1928 that was in the Class III vault, and it' rear sight is an M1A1 (WTF?)

Did you see the custom AMD-65 I made for the Rambo page? I think i'll continue building up the configurations as seen in the movies. Heck I got the parts in shop anyway and some of the guns may have been in the film. But usually the ones I fix up are too nice to have been in some of those movies (they were dropped ALOT). MoviePropMaster2008 19:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The Dark side of movie guns

One of the original Type 56 rifles from the movie "Uncommon Valor" (and no, please Don't post this image on that page, I have access to other rifles from the movie that are in way better shape and I intend to delete this image after a little while). This is what SOME movie guns look like. (Click on the image to see it up close) And no, they're not MY GUNS. I have some guns I need to clean up, but any beaters I try to clean up and keep as good as I can. But I tend to pick and choose the most pristine examples I can find of each movie gun. As you can guess, a lot of the movie guns (not the HERO pieces) are pretty beat up. We have actors and stunt persons dropping them and mishandling them all the time. MoviePropMaster2008 19:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

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Heck at least it fireable....

I don't think I've ever seen any AK variant beat up that badly, even ones confiscated in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you know those guns get the tar beat out of them... Orca1 9904 09:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

That's nothing. try having a moron ACTOR touch your AK for a few days. These (liberal anti gun moron actors) manage to destroy weapons all the time. And they claim they don't "like" guns, and yet they mess around with them, drop them, etc. It's gotten so bad that I have a pow wow with the director & producers a lot BEFORE filming starts and tell them, they had better let me stop "unsafe behavior" (meaning I can yell at and confiscate weapons from the "Stars" on sight). Dropping a gun on concrete is not only rude and damages the gun, it can create cracks or breaks or other unseen damage that can create a catastrophic malfunction. Not that likely given the quality of most battlefield or high end guns, but it's the reasoning I use to whip the director & producer into line. The biggest 'threat' i've ever made on set, when no one backed me up when I was trying to stop reckless gun behavior, was to threaten to (a) immediately quit, (b) pack up all the guns & blanks, (c) leave .... and notify their Insurance agency that the armorer left the set due to unsafe weapons and pyrotechnical practices. Boom! That will either get their policy canceled immediately (it's against union rules to work on a set with out com/liability insurance) or get insurance investigators to visit the set immediately. That bluff has never been called! hahahaha. MoviePropMaster2008 01:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Uncommon valor

It's odd because I had no clue that the Type 56 was imported to the U.S. back when Uncommon Valor was filmed (82-83). I remember hearing it wasn't until 1984 that they reached these shores.

well didn't you wonder where all those Chinese AKs came from during the scenes filmed in Hawaii? LOL! Most of the battle scenes were filmed on the Island of Kauai. Many of the locations were the same Hawaiian locations as Jurassic Park. And I noticed how 'well fed' (i.e. hefty) the local extras were when they were playing Laotian People's Army regulars. Alot of the extras were Chinese and Japanese American residents of Hawaii. This particular gun was an amnestied pre 1968 bring back full auto original Type 56, that was registered per the rules of NFA 34 and GCA 68. There were a LOT of bring backs during the war, and many registered full autos found their way into the chains of commerce between full auto weapons owners. MPM

The Kill Point

Thanks a lot for screencapping The Kill Point. I originally made the page when the series first aired on Spike TV last year, but haven't found anywhere that sells in on DVD or any place on the net with good-quality video. I really appreciate your help with this article, and look forward to seeing it completed. Orca1 9904 09:12, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

GoldenEye discussion

I moved the golden eye AK discussion to that page's discussion page, you know, the guys get all weirded out by the 'non-encylopedic tone' of discussions on the movie pages. :) MoviePropMaster2008 06:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Jericho

It may take me a while to do the caps for this thing as they are buried somewhere in the massive pile of burned discs I have (yes, I know, naughty naughty) but there are a few suggestions I can offer you:

(1) M-14/M1A - seen when Hawkins shows Jake his hidden stockpile of weapons prior to New Bern's attack

(2) MAC-10 - used by some of Jonah Prowse's henchmen during the attack on the New Bern mortar sights

(3) AK-47 - used several times in the series by, among others, the Sherrif's deputies in New Bern and Jonah Prowse.

(4) Heckler&Koch UMP - seen in the hands of a U.S. Marine (based on the cammo pattern) at Camp Liberty

(5) Barret M82A1 - seen mounted on the cab of a deuce and a half at Camp Liberty

(6) M60 - used by a citizen of New Bern during the initial firefight with Jericho

(7) Glock 18 - used by Ravenwood mercs, especially Goetz, to kill Sarah - easily identified by the extended magazine

Yeah...forgot to log in here so I had to log back in in order to "claim credit"!!! Sorry dude.

Check the changes/additions I have made and edit them at your will dude!!! Semper Fidelis!!!

You're very welcome. As far as the Glocks go I thought they might be small too but I am sure I heard burst fire from them in the particular episode. Charon68 19:17, 26 November 2008

That about wraps up my contributions for this one. If you have any further questions just drop me a note. Via Con Dios.

Happy Thanksgiving

Hope you're eating well :) regards MoviePropMaster2008 07:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Marshals snaps

I have U.S. Marshals on DVD, would you like me to replace your AVI shots with my DVD shot sometime? - Gunmaster45 07:04, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

You're very welcome

Yes, the lack of a good USAS 12 shotgun really bugged me. Also the inaccurate history of the gun (as seen on many internet sites) also bugged me. I was there and in the middle of all that political BS in the early 1990s and I remember everything, since it affected me directly. As for the new photos ... That's why I do it! hahahahah. I think IMFDB has the best USAS-12 photo on the net right now ;) I hope you also liked the new Makarov pic (I hated the old one), and the new Glock 17L. Also I 'think' we have the only good shots of the HK 512 autoshotgun on the net as well. Hope you had a great thanksgiving. I'm still working on the pics, but I've taken well over 200 custom gun photographs so far. And it looks like I have a long way to go.

Have you seen the pics of guns at Securityarms.org? Ugh! Poor guys. They have the biggest library of gun pics on the planet so far, but their quality is so bad (and lots of their guns are in really WEIRD configurations).

I screwed up on the XM177-E2 pic (I'm so mad at myself). I put the A1 style upper on an SP1 lower which is wrong. I had the SP1 lower all ready for the original XM17 pic and in a state of confusion, I assembled the E2 upper to the wrong lower. Also I have an original XM177 barreled upper ... and I can't FIND IT! Argh! It's somewhere in the piles and piles and piles of guns and gun parts. I just can't remember where I put it.

Also I'm having a hard time photographing Chrome nickel guns. I tried to photograph a nickel plated Colt Highwaypatrolman and a Colt Single Action Army (with ivory grips), but these guns are nearly 'mirror' finish and the pics look like crap. It's hard to light something that is so shiny and reflective. I'm going to get a special product soft box (the kind they use to photograph silver, platinum and gold jewelry) so that I don't see my own reflection in the item.

I'm trying to get some of the items which I don't have, but it's tough. Thanks for the compliments on Ultraviolet. There's just so much work to do on the site.

Question, how do you guys see how many views an image or page has? Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008 07:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

My thoughts on Molotov Cocktail

Just so you know, I'm strongly against an improvised weapon like the Molotov Cocktail having it's own page. It's a bottle with gasoline in it. It's not manufactured or crafted, like any of the weapons on the other pages including things like custom swords, bows and knives.

Also no user ever needs to know, "Gee, what was the make of that Molotov Cocktail I saw in that movie?" Since IMFDB is an information resource on stuff that people intuitively would NOT already know, I feel we should not put pages on things that are improvised weapons, like "the Bride" in KILL BILL using a piece of wood with nails in it to kill Gogo Yubari.

Also would you also list the propane tanks used to blow up Zombies in DAWN OF THE DEAD as a weapon as well? They had a road flare in them so they were 'modified' like a molotov cocktail.

Since the page was made and effort was put into it, I won't complain any more, but I thought you must realize how I feel towards improvised weapons. I lump them in the same category as a crowbar (weapon used in Half life), a rock, a stick or a brick. Sure Video games use them as weapons, but they don't deserve the page that a known firearm or munition does since no one will ever wonder what country they came from, who made them, what their history or caliber is, or what version or variation is being used. IMHO MoviePropMaster2008 21:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Full Metal Panic

What do you think of what I've done recently with this page?

Do these help?

I was tempted to overwrite the existing pics with these. Let me know if you think I should. MoviePropMaster2008 08:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

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M1921 Thompson

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M1928 "OverStamped" Auto Ordnance Thompson (this one is a real beat up one)

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M1928A1 Military contract Thompson with Stick magazine and simplified Rear sight

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M1928A1 with a Drum magazine

(edit: Just added this M1928A1 with a drum. I will probably over write the existing gun pics)

WTF? Now we have internet Flash animation webisode shorts?

Anonymous user 98.216.249.226 has created a page for Taegukgi. This is NOT the Korean war Movie of the same name, but a Flash animated short that lasts less than 60 seconds, created by an (albeit talented) fan. WTF. Though the short is quite cool, it's weird and stylized animation of round headed figures duking it out for about a minute. does it count if it's only public release is a website? I think people are pushing the boundaries of what is a legitimate title here.

The page on IMDFB. http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Taegukgi

Where you can watch Taegukgi:Stagnant Fire (Stagnant Flame is the 2nd webisode) http://216.40.252.130/stagnantfire.swf

Your thoughts are appreciated. MoviePropMaster2008 08:17, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: I think we should adopt the same rule as IMDB. Or actually, if the title is nowhere to be found on IMDB, that means it is not a recognized title that has been released to the general public, thus it will NOT appear on IMFDB. Members can appeal these decision by posting an IMDB link. I think that's the only was to keep these 'amateur films' (no matter how cool or talented they are), from taking over the Site. MoviePropMaster2008 20:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The much needed FAQ or RULES for the site

Hope we get that FAQ (actually it should be RULES for the site) done quick. I've noticed young foreign members who are posting bootleg images (the danger is from foreign members in Asia and Eastern Europe). I work in the movie biz and that's a SUREFIRE way to get the studio lawyers laser beam aimed right at US. We should prohibit screencaps from films which have NOT been released yet, immediately. The exception are those images which are taken from publicly disseminated marketing images (like production stills, or marketing images that have already been released to the public) or Screengrabs from already released trailers (like I did for Body of Lies, Defiance, and Valkyrie). These images are from public released materials, like high def trailers, and thus are not taken from a bootleg copy of the movie. MoviePropMaster2008 20:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Kin93 is a young user from Hong Kong. 93 refers to 1993, the year he was born, which makes him 15. He may not realize that it's just not Kosher to put images from DVDs which 'may' be available in the notorious bootleg market of CHINA, but is not acceptable and illegal here in the U.S. I am going to give him a chance to respond. It may be some other film that he has mis-titled. But if we can determine definitely that these are screengrabs from the 2009 release film Tunnel Rats, then they should be deleted, with apologies sent to the OP, with a gentle warning that we don't tolerate Bootleg images. I will give him some time to let me know what it is what I think it is. MoviePropMaster2008 22:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: 15 yr olds. I don't want to sound like I am bashing 15 yr olds. Gunmaster45 is an exception. For one, he is far more mature, literate, informed and world wise than 99.99% of 15 yr olds in general. But he is the rare exception. A lot of 'kids' mean well, but need to have it explained to them what is or is not appropriate. Actually MOST of the young adults who post on THIS site are literate, reasoned and mature, far more than their peers who post on other sites. Perhaps it says something about the TYPE of person who has interest in these sort of things. Anyway, I will still watch the new members carefully..... (BTW: It just hit me, I'm as OLD as most of the Admins' DADS .... but I'm probably more fun :) hahahaha). MoviePropMaster2008 00:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I do agree with the fact we should prohibit and make sure people understand that we have to understand the fact that we can't post images of movies unreleased on DVD no matter how high quality they might be as some I've found. And Gunmaster, you're 15, so I don't think you would bash your own age group. I don't remember what it was like being that age. Excalibur01

Care to take a look at my RE:E movie page?

Since no one did this page since the DVD release, I decided to do so. I need some check ups cause I always have a hard time telling Taurus from Beretta. Also see if you can ID the Cobray M11 for me if it is one. The previous guy posted up and even I thought it was an MP7 until I looked closer.

Resident Evil: Extinction

I can't be nice anymore

Someone has to draw the line. This guy Don whatever. He just posted a NEW flash animation on this site. What the hell? I've see the pics or trash that resembles pictures of guns and he thinks those are what they are? Is he high or some punk kid that thinks it's so cool that it deserves to be on this site. Sift Head and that other flash animation thing, Taegukgi. Those are pardon my language, pieces of shit that are NOT worthy of this place that some of us hold with respect. Yeah, they seem entertaining, but if we decide to let something this slide, then whose to stop from putting other flash animations that have "drawings" of guns on them because "Oh they have guns, so therefore they should be on this site". I want to remove it, but I like a majority vote instead of me acting pissed of. I'm asking everyone else their thoughts. Excalibur01 02:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I hesitated

I hesistated as well when I looked at my Pineapple express page because I actually did real work to screencap it, even though it was from a pretty good quality bootleg, but that doesn't excuse the fact I used bootlegged images. It cheapens the quality of this site if we do that. That's why when I get images for TV series, I try to get the highest quality as possible. I didn't hesitated in deleting the images from Tunnel Rat even if it isn't my work and someone else's, but when I did that, I deleted the images from Pineapple Express. It needs to be done. Which is why someone needs to tell this guy who's so much of a fan of flash animation to stop putting stuff like that on this site. It doesn't deserve to be here. Anime deserves to be here, the kind of anime where you can see who detail they did on their guns, not this cheapo internet flash thing you can find anywhere from Newgrounds. Flash animation crosses a line and insults this site. It must not be allowed to be here. Excalibur01 02:17, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

DVD rips

Even dvd rips have their limits. You can really tell from the offical stuff and something someone ripped off a DVD. It's better to just rent it from official sources. And do you think we overdid it with Don and used him as an example like that. I mean, this is a free form wiki like site. Odds are there will be others who won't read rules and ignore and we have to start this all over again.

Excalibur01 02:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

We got another one

I just found another one. It's called Madness. Yeah how approperate. Putting flash animation here is madness. Cause this is IMFDB.

Excalibur01 02:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Hard work

And a very nice work, your Hard Target is. Excalibur01 03:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

My airsoft

So what do you think of my airsoft? I know a lot of people have a bad idea about what airsoft is, so what do you think? Excalibur01 02:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Good guess. We wear the woodland and desert DPM half and half. You think wearing desert in the middle of winter isn't smart, but that color blends really good in the snow and tree. The guy who founded the team's British. Born in Singapore, raised in England and former paratrooper. I think after college here, he's going back for another tour. The guy's kinda hardcore about what guns we arm ourselves with. We don't go for anything that the British or SAS hasn't used. It keeps our weapon uniformed and easy to change out parts and magazines. Also the reason other than ego I think for the British camo is because everyone in the US obviously goes for the typical kinds of camo and we've yet to encounter a team that has a similiar kit like us. Excalibur01 00:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes that is the reason how I came across Ultimate Force. It is an awesome show, but had a run of bad luck when it comes to casting and renewals. It reminded me of the show The Unit, which for all intents and purposes is the US equivalent to Ultimate Force, but the difference is that it had more episodes, but why I don't like about The Unit which was half the show is all about the wives and family drama. Ultimate Force showed almost none of that and more action. Excalibur01 05:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You psychic? hahaha

I put up a pic and you comment on it within 90 seconds... hahaha First the Type 84 and now this. Is there an alarm on your computer whenever I post a gun pic? :) Thanks for the compliments. I wish I had a better pic of the Valmet. I was counting on getting shots of Syd Stembridge's guns, but he sold all of his Valmets to Long Mountain Outfitters. I don't think I know of anyone who has the most important variant, the M78/83 (the version with the black synthetic thumbhole stock). I have a broken M78 (and I mean ready for the scrap pile) with a fake thumbhole stock that was carved out of plywood!!!!! Ugh! Boy it looks bad. But I had the semi auto only M78 gun as a stunt weapon since the receiver was previously crushed slightly inward by the previous owner and it's not worth it to repair the fractures in the sides.MoviePropMaster2008 01:46, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Stripes page

So I finally did a Stripes page. Just got sick of having no page for that movie. :) .MoviePropMaster2008 01:46, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Water marks

I am seriously considering some sort of copyright listing (or at least some clear wording at the comments section) of each custom gun pic I photograph. I suppose I should be wary of pirates just lifting the custom content clear out of the blue. After, a lot of IMFDB's gun pics are someone else's content. My goal is to replace all of IMFDB's gun pics with original images that clearly belong to IMFDB so there is no copyright issue with anyone else..MoviePropMaster2008 01:46, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

There you go again=

hahahaha. I post a pic, and less than 90 seconds later, I get a comment from you! You have Jedi mind powers?!? :) hahahaha. How do you know when I've posted a pic? :) re: the gun, I had it in one of my PICS folders that I haven't looked at since August. That folder has pics I scored from armorer buddies and I remember someone mentioning that the rack I was poking around had the guns from Air Force One. Since I wasn't near any AKs or pistols, I just remember thinking, oh, "these must be the MP5s from the flick". But then a lot of people I know make off the cuff remarks and then don't remember making them at all later, so who knows? Again that was six months ago, and I had since forgotten about the whole affair until I ran across this image. I could ask again, but Remember, I sometimes annoy my peers when I bug them about photographing specific movie guns. So I must tread lightly. ;) I 'believe' they are from AFO but I wouldn't swear an oath on it. :) Hope that doesn't ruin the image for you. ;) hahahaha.MoviePropMaster2008 03:51, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

MoviePropMaster2008 images

I found MoviePropMaster2008 9mm UMP image on [[1]] but if I have permission to upload my image on the UMP page I think it would make the UMP page much better. I just uploaded a USC image on the UMP page and it already looks good.

I guess it was inevitable

Getting more and more requests for pics or .... discovering that people are just jacking the images in general. I found a local gun store who jacked some of my images for their inventory page. They had the gall to actually put their own copyright on the image. Anyway I was dealing with that, but I guess it's inevitable. I've electronically tagged the images now with copyright info. Regardless of what they do to the pic, certain software can positively ID it as mine. Professional photographers and professional artists are starting to really police the net when it comes to people stealing their stuff. Some kid posting the pic on his "guns I like " page is innocuous. Some business owner posting the images in his catalogue and then marking them as his copyright is actionable. What makes it a little harder is that IMFDB has jacked it's own images from others. I see new members lifting pics (and sometimes text) whole from other sites, which is irritating since some of them still jack images for guns we already have LEGAL pics of. Just so you know, :) I will try to keep doing what I am doing until the entire site has exclusive content and we won't have to 'jack' anyone else's images. I know that's impossible, but I will try to get as close as I can.

I also have had some other folks polite enough to request usage rights (which is good nettiquette and shows that at least they are honest), but I'm still not willing at this point to give anyone permission outside of IMFDB. Hope you understand my thinking and if you have any advice please let me know.

As far as the Wiki guy. I posted the flip side of the gun he wanted. What do you think? I wanted some input before I let him have this one. Is the courtesy notice too much?

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Cetme Ameli - Courtesy of IMFDB.org - 5.56mm

Excellent photograph. The watermark, though not favoured on Wikipedia, is fine. It is your property after all. My only qualm would be the label on the right side. The image will be placed in an infobox with a caption, making it redundant. Cheers. 99.232.226.200 14:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

New Pics

I replaced the USP 45 with an exclusive pic... ;)

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HK USP - .45acp

Check out this pic. FNC sporter (the semi auto rifle imported into the U.S. all throughout the 1980s and the most common weapon in movie armories).

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FNC Sporter - 5.56mm

MoviePropMaster2008 17:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Other forums

"I know people have been talking about IMFDB and its images on quite a few gun forums, but I had no clue anybody would have the audacity to take your images and claim them as their own!"

Do you know of any gun forums that discuss IMFDB in regards to our photos? I've been checking to see if we created any sort of buzz for months and I've found nothing. If you would be so kind, I would really appreciate some links to some of these forums. Are we being bashed or praised. ;) You have piqued my curiosity. I know you try to promote the site but I sure would like to see the general perception from others in other forums. Thanks and best regards. MoviePropMaster2008 06:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

The Park is Mine Machine Gun

I'm pretty certain it's an MG42 machine gun Mitch is using at the climax of The Park is Mine. The rounds in the spare ammo belt he's carrying look too long to be 7.62x51mm NATO rounds as used by the MG3 (which are shorter in comparison to the 7.92x57mm Mauser cartridge). Plus as pointed out by MPM2008, an MG42 would make more sense in the context of the film. Orca1 9904 13:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Got it, finally :)

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AKMS Custom - 7.62x39mm

Now I will be updating with this pic. :) MoviePropMaster2008 06:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

auto 9

glad you liked the new pic. I'm trying now to get more specific movie guns, rather than classic examples of the gun types. That particular 93R was a rebuild from a damaged one that exploded back in the early 1990s. I have no idea where the Robo parts came from. MoviePropMaster2008 22:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Un-released movies

Let us say I were to have access to a film which had not been released into theatres yet. Let us further say there were firearms in the film. Would it be frowned upon if I were to create a page for the movie? Charon68 21:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate Page

An anonymous user created a duplicate page of the HK 416 just a few minutes ago. I will leave you and the other admins to deal with it, but I just wanted to let you know. TheDon152 22:09, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

24

I didn't put that entry in for Sutherland. I was just correcting the spelling of his nameMoviePropMaster2008 03:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Re:Gunner313

The Remington 700 pic of Swagger cycling out a blank round is the blu-ray shot from Legions of Fate's website. I had literally just been looking at it before I noticed on here. It says on the image that he uploaded it. - Gunmaster45

I'm replacing the shot on Heat of the Ruger KP90 now, since that is from Legions of Fate's website as well. - Gunmaster45

Lord of War

Would you mind if in the near future if I added screencaps to Lord of War? I was watching it and noticed you missed a few things on the page. Plus it's the two disc with commentary and special feattures so I could add extra information. I wouldn't be able to do it right now but it would be on my list right after Get Smart. - Gunmaster45

I'm glad you noticed I've been cutting down on the screenshots. >:( You didn't add shots of those Vz 58 rifles in the arsenal, which according to the director were 2000 real guns rented by an arms dealer for the days of shooting, because it was cheaper to rent real guns than fake ones.

You also just missed a few shots that would be considered great on the site. I had no intention of muddling up the page with 20 screencaps. I try not to do that unless I feel it necessary.

IMO, adding a lot of screencaps is not being messy, it is being thorough. I show different users at different parts of the film. Since we have gun pages and actor pages which list these users, some proof helps. Last Man Standing was my one mistake, don't hold that against me.

But you have your opinions and I have mine. - Gunmaster45

Do you think I was too harsh on KIN93?

Curious to know your thoughts. I was pretty stern when I warned against uploading obvious Bootlegs on the Defiance page. I also didn't buy his explanation that the movie Tunnel Rats has been seen in theaters in Europe already. Having been released in theaters is a big difference than having been released on DVD. MoviePropMaster2008 21:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Jericho story is too questionable

Knowing some about government, military and control, I find it hard to believe with some of the stuff that happened. I mean sure the nuclear attack is one thing and ppl's shock and awe of it and maybe even the highways have turned into Road Warriors world, but this Allied States of America. In mere months, a new government was formed, with a new flag that's been printed everywhere in fabric, new currency and the loyalties of military when there is still a United States of America on the east side? It just seems...too weird. Excalibur01 07:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for getting rid of the unneeded M4 picture, I didn't want it up there much either. I think it was an airsoft gun too because I looked up the image name and found it on a airsoft forum. Once again, thanks.--Alienqueen11 23:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree, if we got pictures of every configuration an M4 can be in, we would have tons. But anyway I think the three M4s we have are already good enough, and it shouldn't matter what the configuration is. I disliked the picture becaused it looked bad next to the other three, and it was unneccessarily large, I mean 25% of the picture was the M4, and 75% was the rug it was laying on. And once again, thanks, and great work on The Beast screengrabs by the way.--Alienqueen11 01:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for helping with my Sopranos page, I've been trying to screencap in each episode I watch. Also, thanks for helping with the "non gun" they used in the third season, it had me wondering for sure - good find! Speakeasy804

A little help

I just started my Police Story 3: Supercop page, but I need some help IDing some of the guns. Can you give me a hand? Excalibur01 14:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Question About Bond Actor Category

I was wondering, in the "James Bond Actor" category page, should we limit it to actors who've played James Bond himself, or should we allow 'supporting' actors such as Bond girls (ie, Halle Berry & Honor Blackman) and villians (such as Robert Carlyle & Gert Fröbe)? I'm proposing this to several admins and would like to get some feedback on this before making a decision. Orca1 9904 22:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You around?

Or is life just kicking your butt? :) Well I have a slow month right now, but it could kick into high gear any moment. As soon as I'm on a location or working my butt off for a movie shoot, i'm outta here for a least a few weeks (or months). MoviePropMaster2008 19:39, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

The Departed

I read what you had to change on The Departed page. I really hate some anonymous users. Should we block him or just warn him (I'd just block him since if he is willing to write this, it is obvious he doesn't care about being punished). - Gunmaster45

Thanks, what were you in DC for. The inaguration? Everyone has been talking about how much they hate Obama in my school. I refuse to say such a thing until I actually see what he does. Biden on the other hand, can go suck dick and die (excuse the term), I know what he's done before and hate him with every fiber of my being. Anyway, hope you enjoyed you stay. Glad to see your back. - Gunmaster45

P.S. I'm adding season two of Mail Cal now. I'm surprised to see how no one attempt to ID the unknowns at the bottom of the page though.

Maybe not forever. Who knows, in four years, we could have Tom Selleck as our president for all we know. :) - Gunmaster45

Kiraly 39M/43M Submachine Gun

I recently stumbled on this article on this site and something about it struck me as a little odd. In addition to the wording a diagram of the operating system of the weapon was included which seemed really familiar. I checked and, sure enough, the whole article, word for word and picture for picture had been directly lifted from http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg104-e.htm . This is the most blatant example of plagarism I have seen on this site. I contacted you because, as an Admin and as far as I know, you monitor such things. - Charon68

Glock 19 and welcome back from Liberal land

Why I hope you didn't drink the kool-aid and start having that glassy eyed almost religious fanaticism that I saw on the television about the 'regal coronation ceremony'....... I don't usually spend the time on fixing pics when I intent to photograph a real gun of that type. I fixed pics like the Ukranian FORT-12 because no way in hell am I going to get a 9x18mm Ukranian Fort 12 pistol any time soon. But when I have the time, which I haven't, I try to reshoot photos of the guns. I have a stack of guns right now that I'm supposed to photograph, but the actual time it takes to stop everyone, and set up the lighting and do the photography takes about 2-6 hours out of a day, which is a bit of a hassle. But I fully intent to photograph one of those 1st gen 19s when I get a chance. Good to have you back. MoviePropMaster2008 01:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay you talked me into it

Since the Glock 19 I was going to photograph, I can't find. I relented and fixed your pic. Whatcha think? Edit: I will delete this image and reload over the other one. MoviePropMaster2008 19:45, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

File:Glock19Pic.jpg

Glock 19 - 9mm

PS also on the Type 56C custom. There are several guns floating around. The one in Rambo and Pineapple express have a barrel that looks to be about an inch or two longer than the one in T3. Also there's the one in True Lies that's REALLY cut down. I was bummed when I took a hard look at the pics on the movie pages. I should have photographed more AK pistols when I had the chance but I thought they all had the same barrel length. Oh well. Will try to fix this in the future.

Bourne AR-15s

Thanks for the quick note about the AR-15s used in The Bourne Identity (2002). I found what you had to say pretty interesting, so I'm going to post it to the page (giving you credit of course) and you can leave it or delete it as you wish. Should I link it to the M16 page, but credit the gun as an AR-15? (I'm not sure where to find the AR-15 page) - Speakeasy804

Also thanks for helping out with some of the other screencaps (the Tauruses, etc.) I could try and get a picture of Conklin's gun but I don't think it was on screen enough to get a clear enough image. You're right about the PP, though, it does resemble one more than a P5C for sure. Thanks for the help. - Speakeasy804

Live Free or Die Hard

Hey Matt if you need confirmation on the SBR Mark 12 they have them. I worked on these guns for Live Free or Die Hard. -Phoenixent

The Shadow

Not A problem to the addition of the interview. That was the first film I worked on it was quite eye opening. The Titanic photo was from the auction and Syd had a copy so I just cleaned it up. The funny thing is I don't even have a DVD of the movie to get screen captures off of. I will check on the SBR and see if they are in. - Phoenixent

Bourne Supremacy

Thanks for the help on the page. I definitely wasn't sure about the sniper rifle. I really bit my lip saying it was the WA 2000, but I checked a few other online forums and some other people said it, so I was figuring maybe it was some variant. But if you say it's not, then it most probably isn't. I'll work on getting better shots of the G36/SL8 and the P99 as well. I appreciate your help, thanks! - Speakeasy804

The more I look at that Keppeler & Fritz, the more I'm convinced that that's the one. Good find! I'll get to work on those other shots as soon as I can and if you want I can drop you a message once they're up? Also a heads up - I'll probably be working on Ultimatum (maybe tomorrow night), but that looks like it doesn't need quite as much work. If you have any input, I'd greatly appreciate it, you've been a tremendous help with the others. Thanks - Speakeasy804

Okay, you can check both pages now. I added a few extra shots (maybe a little too many, but I wanted to make sure identification would be easier for us). - Speakeasy804

Ultimate force revamped

So how do you like what I did to the Ultimate Force page? It's not finished since I still need to watch the rest of the series, but working on it. Excalibur01 15:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I just started downloading season 3 and won't get season 4 until a few days. And yeah, I have seen the series a couple times over. A friend of mine had it all, but I never asked him for it. I've downloaded the episodes before, but deleted them for space on my computer and that was before I was on this site. This is a very good series and I really liked it. I wished they made more of this. Excalibur01 14:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm downloading season 4 right now. Hopefully will get it by the end of the week. I've been making additions, so can you take a look Excalibur01 03:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The few things I wish this series had was up to date M16s and M4s, or at least the British equalivent of those. I guess their armorers weren't equiped with the latest stuff. Excalibur01 16:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

But 500 isn't that big to me. It seems just right. To me, your pics are small. Excalibur01 06:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh and don't get me started on the episode in season 4 where we see how the show portrays the US military when Red Troop goes on a joint op with them. Excalibur01 07:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I'll do it. I just forgot last night since I was tired and my internet was faulty. Besides, I still got a couple of the unknowns that needs to be ID Excalibur01 19:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Not fat an incompentants, but hot heads, arrogant, and cowboys. One even has sunglasses and speaking in a semi-southern accent, another guy said "Ya'll" and another guy's chewing on a toothpick. The "US military" that appeared on the show were supposed to be Green Berets. Excalibur01 21:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, one of them is a racist Excalibur01 21:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Going on the topic on how this show portrayed Americans, the episode after the US Spec Ops/SAS Joint mission episode, we see a kid on a double decker bus with his parents, obviously from America and pretty much is interjecting everytime the tour guide speaks. The idea behind this kid seems as if he thinks America is the best country in the world kind of personality. Nothing wrong with that, I think the US is the greatest nation in the world, one of the most powerful, etc, but I don't blah my mouth off on it all day long, and if I was in a foriegn country like England, I certainly wouldn't waste my breath to let the entire bus know how prideful of my country I am. Makes you wish this kid got shot in the episode. Excalibur01 22:28, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

There still are a couple guns I need help IDing. If you can give me a hand? Excalibur01 08:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

If only they didn't get rid of Jamie and Caroline. They were good characters. Jem and Ricky were my other favorites because of the humor I get from them. In the first 2 seasons, Caroline saw combat, even though she was a trooper. Why couldn't they do that with Becca when they introduced her in season 3? All she had to do was replace Caroline's job. Excalibur01 02:15, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Usable pic?

I was tempted to reshoot this on a pintle mount so that I can get closer to the gun. Let me know if this format is preferable. I am still tempted to reshoot some of the Aircraft guns much closer so that we see more of the gun and less of the mount. I had to shoot it in the warehouse and digitally wipe out everything else with white (what a pain!) since I was alone and this sucker was TOO heavy to lift by myself! ;)

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Browning M2HB on Tripod Mount - .50 BMG

best regards MoviePropMaster2008 06:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC) BTW: I need a photo wish list again, so please let me know which guns you really want to see a good pic of :) I will try to track them down for pics. :)

Help on Alex Reid

I have a bunch of screencaps of British Actress Alex Reid using or holding guns in other films and was going to create an actor page for her. But I have never seen Ultimate Force. Does she, playing the character Captain Caroline Walshe, use any guns in the show Ultimate Force?MoviePropMaster2008 20:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

PS thanks for the input of on the M2. I have another one in the safe, but the barrel is off and i have to install the barrel myself (gun with barrel is around 99 lbs) Again it's more than one person can do easily. I need a wish list, I may see Mike Papac at Cinema Weaponry soon. MoviePropMaster2008 20:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Beretta M9

You're right about the M9, there are some other minor differences in the frame, but nothing too important. It was a stupid thing to ask for, as you said, they're are more important things the site needs. I told MPM2008 to scrap it from his wishlist. Best regards--Alienqueen11 20:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia pirate

Koalorka who contacted me before, graciously alerted me as to some guy uploading my pics as his. Since Wikipedia is pretty good about pirated images, especially when the author complains, they take them down. Are you a wiki member? I was just curious if you knew the protocols. Thanks.

Check out these images on Wikipedia.... Look familiar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20090124031005&target=Josh+Woolstenhulme

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Simonov-Russian-SKS45.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/M1_Garand.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/M1903Mark1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/AKMRifle.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/SMLE.jpg

MoviePropMaster2008 07:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Alex Reid

Thanks so much on helping with Alex Reid! :) I screencapped her movie "Arachnid" and are just preparing the images for upload and wanted to make an ACTOR page for her. MoviePropMaster2008 08:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Out of town starting late tonight

Am going on location and meeting with a director and television executive for the standard business stuff, but I will be traveling between midnight tonight and Tuesday, so I will be offline until then. So if I don't answer a question right away, it's because I'm in a meeting or on location. Thanks. best regards MoviePropMaster2008 01:47, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Out of town starting late tonight

Am going on location and meeting with a director and television executive for the standard business stuff, but I will be traveling between midnight tonight and Tuesday, so I will be offline until then. So if I don't answer a question right away, it's because I'm in a meeting or on location. Thanks. best regards MoviePropMaster2008 01:47, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Hitman

I had Hitman in my box of to do movies but I forgot to add it to my list. I'll let you do it though because you went through the trouble of buying it. Also, check the special feattures because they have an armorer show off the guns in the film. He is without a doubt the dumbest armorer alive and you see him shoot blank guns (with a side frame box showing the rounds hit things). It is horrible to watch. But some of the guns in the movie are hard to catch (like the FN F2000s are only visible for a few seconds). And by all means remove those other images, yours will beat any of the ones on the page now. - Gunmaster45

I have the two disc unrated which means I have an extra disc for a digital copy (which is pretty useless to me, but it does have special feattures, I'll probably add shots then). By all means keep the publicity photos (Olyphant pointing the P-18 at the screen is the best), but some aren't necessary (like the FBI guy with his USP, which was likely found on google. Some of these look like crap on a page but that first shot is really crystal clear). - Gunmaster45

I almost forgot, I'm going to upload Windtalkers soon. While some might find this weird, for my cat's burial yesterday, I fired seven blanks through my Mini-14, like a military/police funeral. Obviously she wasn't in any service but it made my mom happy, since both her mom and dad were in the marines and got similair services. It was a lot for a cat but she was a good cat and I've had her a long time. Anyway, I did a decent job of keeping the screencaps low for Windtalkers, but sometimes, too many great shots are present. Highest I got to is nine. Then I'll get Shoot 'Em Up done. - Gunmaster45

More Airsoft

So what do you think of my new pictures I got in my profile. Excalibur01 21:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Check these out :)

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Custom Kimber TLE II pistol with Surefire light - this is the exact pistol used by the team in the movie SWAT. This one is Samuel L. Jackson's actual pistol in the movie (and was carried by him)

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This is the screen used SIG P220R used by Bruce Willis in the movie Live Free and Die Hard. This one is Bruce Willis's actual pistol in the movie (and was carried by him and fired by him)

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Nickel plated STAR Model B - 9mm pistol from the movie Pulp Fiction. This one is Samuel L. Jackson's actual pistol in the movie (and was carried by him)

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Blued STAR Model B - 9mm pistol from the movie The Untouchables (1987). This one is a screen used and fired handgun in the movie and was used by Kevin Costner on screen. Normally on generic guns I retouch out big scratches on the finish, but this is an original piece used in the film and the scratches are what identify it as authentic to people who know what Costner was firing.

I got tons more, but I have to clean up the pics.... MoviePropMaster2008 01:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Check out Gunmaster45's talk page

And you'll the guns from "the Quick and the Dead" that I sent to him ;) I will be trying to get nearly all the weapons in that movie. Some are long gone (one was stolen off the set) and the others are in private collections (like famous producers), but I am trying hard. Hope you guys like the image quality. I'm not fond of LMO's pics and I always think I can take better pics of the guns than they did (but then I also work hard in post production to clean up the shot). best regards

MoviePropMaster2008 01:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

More pics

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Vincent's Smith & Wesson 5906 from Collateral - 9mm. This is a screen used gun. Note the late model 5906 pistols have the rounded trigger guard.

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Early Model Smith & Wesson 5906 - 9mm. The early model 5906 pistols had the finger step trigger guard, but they changed it to the rounded trigger guard for 'ease of production'.

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Late Model Smith & Wesson 5904 - 9mm. The early model 5904 pistols had the finger step trigger guard, but S&W changed it to the rounded trigger guard for 'ease of production'.

These others were also screen used, but I need to recheck and verify what. BTW, I do 'scramble' the serial numbers (in Photoshop) when they are visible so that nosy people can't track down the original SN for the movie gun. I have TONS more pics, but I don't want to sit here all night. I have another gig to go to :) I also replaced the TEC-9 image with a good one and will be replacing a bunch more. :) MoviePropMaster2008 02:11, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Hitman Special Feattures

I'm saving shots for Hitman now. - Gunmaster45

Mixed up berettas

you know you may be right, or the tags in the case might be on the wrong guns. I will call the "curator" tomorrow and double check. Figures, I usually take a photo of the ID tag on the gun, but I didn't have time so I didn't on all of the premiere Hollywood Hero guns. And they also had "short hand". I think I may have mentally confused DH 2-3-4 with LW2-3-4. I have to double check that. I made over 30 images updates last night, new P9S, New Model 19 from Lethal Weapon, I replaced the old images on the AMT longslide and AMT 5", New Para Ordnance P14, New Kimber TLE II, Added the Beretta 92S and 92SB, added a remington 1100 tactical, replaced the S&W 586, added the screen used S&W 3913 from Demolition Man, added the early S&W 5904, etc. When I have that much stuff, I might get some stuff mixed up. THANKS for the eagle eyes! I will double check based on your excellent observations!. MoviePropMaster2008 19:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I screwed up

I did find ONE of my snapshots of the case and found this. I mixed up a bunch of the berettas, ARGHH!!! I have to double check all of them again.

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This is a snap I usually do to double check my work. Note that the extended 92F I had was actually the Demolition Man gun, not the LH gun. I did snap a shot of the LH gun, but now I have to find it. THANKS for the eagle eyes! MoviePropMaster2008 20:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Checks

That's Stembridge's display case. Yes, they're back. Syd only sold off all of his full auto stuff, his western and pre-1945 stuff. But his handguns and post 1945 long guns are still around. Also I would prefer to check with Mike myself. Don't want to step on his toes for verification, because Steve (like 99% of us) doesn't have this stuff memorized, and he will have to call Mike anyway, so I would rather do it. MoviePropMaster2008 20:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC) But Mike helped me with a bunch of stuff. When the pic is a generic image of a particular gun, I usually just photograph my OWN inventory. But he has some really interesting hero guns. As for multiple guns, most of the time there are FOUR guns, 1 primary, 1 backup, and 2 extra for catastrophic emergencies. If there are no malfunctions, the actor would use the same gun for the entire shoot (why put so much wear and tear on other handguns unless necessary?) Also most of the time, any custom modifications are REMOVED and either the gun is put back to stock configuration or is customized for yet another movie. These single guns are the only ones left and have been removed from active inventory primarily due to their historical Hollywood pedigrees.

On another note: I will be the only guy left on the west coast with an HK94 in the original DieHard configuration. Cinema Weaponry bought the remaining stock of full auto HK94 conversions and refurbished them to complete MP5 specs, so that now they all look indistinguishable from factory MP5s (Plastic lowers, three lug barrels, paddle mag release, etc.) So now there are only factory stock looking MP5s in the movies, however, ALOT of them in films are still those HK94 conversions, but now we can't tell visually if they are or not. MoviePropMaster2008 20:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Response

Just wanted to make sure you understood that I intend to ask Mike on Monday and I did NOT want you bugging Steve about something that only Mike would know for sure. Just wanted to make that clear :) being that I seem to be unclear in the past. :) Anyway, since I wasn't sure if you understood my request. Thanks again.

:But I forget...didn't Syd Stembridge basically take all of his remaining assets to Cinema Weaponry? I've been under the impression that Stembridge and CW essentially merged with each other after Stembridge closed down in '99. So aren't the guns that Syd kept now in Mike's hands?

The company location belongs to both and the building is Stembridge Gun Rentals/Cinema Weaponry. Syd still has a sizeable collection that belongs to him and not Mike, and they both share the building. But a majority of the guns belongs to CW, and 99% of the full auto guns. So yes and no. Syd has his own office and section so I tend to recognize him as his own entity. Since he sold off most of his stuff in 99, a lot of folks have just assumed he is gone for good. Except for the newer stuff, the majority of the guns in the cases were Stembridge rentals back in the day.

: And yes, I imagine Mike must have a lot of cool stuff to photograph. One other thing you should ask about...remember the H&K G11 from Demolition Man? If you can at least get the story on where that gun came from, that would be awesome. I've always wondered...did they build it themselves?

Remember that HK thinks we suck and they hate us..... ;) I tried to get a photograph of that very gun when Demolition Man was being filmed, and HK had this incredible insane "Lawyers from hell" contract that only in the context of the production could anyone even photograph the gun. I tried to get a pic (since there are NO good pics of this stupid gun) years ago and the people who had it were contractually bound NOT to let me photograph it. I will ask around, but there was only ONE real sample floating around that I knew about in the film industry.

MoviePropMaster2008 00:42, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I'm confused but here it is

After a lengthy conversation with the original Die Hard Armorer (there were several guys on set usually but Mike was the lead who (at the time) rented from Syd)) he said several times the following: (a) He seems to think that the Beretta Pistol with the tag (on the table) with no ID plate (the one that is EXTRA beat up and has no extended mag button or slide release) IS the one from DH1 and LW1. (b) all the guns for Bruce in his movies were also used by Mel in his movies, so the same guns jumped back and forth between productions, but if it's a Beretta used by John McClane , then it's the same gun used by Martin Riggs. (c) Mike recalls that he didn't install the extended mag release button and slide release until the second movie (d) I was wrong on the DH lineage. It's meant to be the LW lineage, so the beretta did not appear in Die Hard 2 or 3 or 4, but instead appeared in Lethal Weapon 2 and 3 and 4. John McClane used the same beretta until 4 and since the original grouping had been retired, the berettas that appeared were generic ones like mine. So he is pretty sure that the beat up gun IS the original DH1 and LW1 Pistol (as well as LH2-3-4). The DH2 pistol/Demolition Man pistol is correct, according to the armorer. So i didn't mix them up, which mystifies me. I will take some screen caps to the shop some other day and see again .... but I'm not in the habit of challenging the guy who owns the gun , hahahahaha. :)

Wanna hear something wild?

I MAY have an opportunity to go overseas (France) and I will try to photograph some of Christophe Maratier's guns (Leon/Ronin/LaFemme Nikita/District B13/Taken/etc) I would like to also go picture taking in Britain at Bapty's or Sascha Robey's collection, but who knows? I don't have a connection/introduction yet with those guys. And with all the retarded gun restrictions going on over there......

Stuff

Dan Shea went to Bapty's back in 2003 (I think) and they let him photograph a lot of their guns (which appear on LMO's site) Yeah, but WHO is the better photographer? ;) hahahaha. Seriously, I really work hard on the pics even after I take them and right now I'm sure that IMFDB has the best gun pics on the net. I was thinking of doing an actual table top book with the pics (including a bunch of other angles that I did not upload). As per the Berettas, I will take your screenshot to the shop the next time I'm there and try to (gently) reverify the history of the pieces. Either that or I'll say "MT2008 says you're full of SHIT!" heheheh. Those were done 23 years ago and we're all doing this from recollection. I think that's WHY I'm so intent on getting the historical images done with the pages complete. We're all getting older and who knows? Movie weaponry is a facet of movie history that has been neglected until now. :) MoviePropMaster2008 22:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Pages

Notice how we're still getting new pages with next to no input? Sure some of these guys put in the OBSCURE foreign film with ONE gun entry. They don't even bother to grab the poster and put it in or try to get any screengrabs. Screengrabs I can forgive, but not even the poster? (which is easy to google). I'm gonna stop trying to help these pages and just delete them until someone is ready to start actually working on the page. I haven't seen a lot of these films and have no way (other than ordering them from Amazon in Europe which I don't want to do). MoviePropMaster2008 22:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Movie guns

As per NYC armorers, Mike bought a bunch of guns at auction from the east coast. Only armorers buy the heavily blank adapted guns from other armorers. They're pretty useless except as frames to any other gun person. :) MoviePropMaster2008 22:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Arachnid

Sorry for blowing iup at you. It was just the initial shock of NOT saving my work for an hour (stupid me) and then having the system deny my edits because of an 'edit conflict'. I'm all better now :) You were right. I checked back in the browser logs and found a version that was pretty close to the one I was trying to save, so I mass uploaded it. I was only freaked out because it was literally a few seconds between the "preview" and the "save" that the conflict in edits occurred. Talk about bad timing :) Anyway, I knew if I walked away from the computer for a little bit I could think more clearly and figure out a way to restore the work (or at least most of it). Sorry again. It was an innocent action, not your fault at all. It was just me panickingi because I had done an hour of work and didn't SAVE it, and was thwarted at the last second when I tried... But all is good in the universe . Please accept my apologies. :) MoviePropMaster2008 22:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Chris Potter's mutant hands ;)

I took another look at him holding the MAC-10 (or MAC-11), but look at the shots of his hands holding the Full sized UZI. That dude has monster hands! What do you think? MoviePropMaster2008 22:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

SIG or Sig?

I made this change a long while ago and never got any comments on it. Do you think it is written "SIG-Sauer" or "Sig-Sauer"? Based on the fact people usually write SIG in capital letters because it is a company and Sauer is a maker's name, plus the fact they write it SIG-SAUER on the logo, I made the assumption it was "SIG-Sauer". Was I wrong? I see MPM doesn't always write it this way but I always assumed it was correct. What do you think? - Gunmaster45

Re: Shit!

It's okay, you weren't editing the same section as I was. It only creates edit conflict when you edit the same section, so since you didn't edit the Webley, I was able to upload fine. - Gunmaster45

Re: Tomorrow Never Dies

Thanks! I wasn't sure about the LAW but Charon68 says he's pretty sure it's a LAW-80 so I used that label. Also, I wasn't sure how to label the fake MP5K-PDWs, so I left the title with the description you gave (an interesting bit of information too). Feel free to make any other corrections, I appreciate the help!! - Speakeasy804

Oh I don't know how I missed that haha. I changed the title of it to say "Heckler & Koch MP5K (with PDW folding stock)" as well. - Speakeasy804

Street Kings

Absolutely, when I screencapped that movie, I had rented it so I was on a very strict deadline and probably missed some stuff. But do me some favors:

Replace the R9, I'm ashamed to admit the shots are from Legions of Fate's website, I had totally forgot I did this too but I had originally missed this when I screencapped.
I forgot to upload the screencaps I had of M16s in the police armory and deleted the screencaps before I realized this.

I guess memory failed me with the muzzle flash but please by all means add some shots. Are you using Itunes or a DVD? Because if you use Itunes the pictures will look brighter so if you could somehow darken them with an editor (or I could if you wouldn't mind) so they don't stand out to the other shots, I'd appreciate it. If you do use Itunes, try to see if you can confirm the Korean slaver's shotgun, because I look at it and it kind of looks like an Ithaca, not a Remington. And see if Coates' shotgun is a Mossberg 500 or 590 (it is a dark shot). Thanks. Look for 3:10 to Yuma (2007), I'll have it on soon. - Gunmaster45

Thanks, the shots look great, I'm still going to test and see if I can darken the shots without ruining the quality but I doubt I'll be able to do anything. - Gunmaster45

Saturday Shoot --- more pics coming --- just a heads up

cc:d' to MT2008, GM45, Alienqueen1 I'm heading to another armory to photograph some more long guns this Saturday if all goes as planned. (I'll get a new StG-44 amongst other cool stuff (like a SR-25, all tricked out, etc.) I've been photographing a lot of pistols recently. Since the last group of famous gun pics took an entire day to photograph and multiple days to 'clean up and format' (and put electronic Copyright tagging) on the images. I am also returning to Stembridge/CW to photograph a bunch of their more famous subguns/shortshotguns. I already have permission to photograph the actual McMillan TAC-50 used in S.W.A.T. As far as my own inventory, I still have to rebuild and fix some of MY guns still. I still have an M249 full stock gun that I need to photograph and a Walther MPL that needs fixing. And a bunch of Benelli M3 Super 90s in different configurations :) I want to work some more on the M16 page. If I can't get a real 733 (for example) I will try to build up an exact duplicate of one in the right configuration and then take a pic of it. Some of my older photos of M16 guns (like the 733) were build ups (i.e. just a standard gun with the barrel cut down, and not the exact configuration of the original gun type). I want exact examples of each one so that our M16 page is the definitive page of M16 types on the net. BTW: I have to go down to CW again and I will try to grab more "the Quick and the Dead" guns ... :) More handguns, especially Sharon Stone's SAA and Russell Crowe's gun (and original holster) and all the original screen used guns from 'Iron Man'. ;) I am also trying to get a ton of more famous screen used western guns for GM45's pages. (I let HIM do the honors on the Western movie pages ;) ) Just a heads up guys! :) MoviePropMaster2008 04:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Boondock Saints

My screencapping of the film is taking considerabley longer than anticipated, mainly do to the scene in the dealer's armory. I have documented EVERY gun seen in that room, with a red circle over each. It was a great film, but I'm getting a serious head ache from all this. I'm trying to get it all prepared for tommorow, but I don't know if I can. One picture was particularly difficult, I had forgotten to document an M79 launcher, but deleted the image that had it on! Since I don't currently have the DVD to re-screencap, I took another shot (same image, but circling a different gun), and removed the circle with painstaking edits and got the shot. Sometimes this work is tough. You got any movies you plan to do in the future? - Gunmaster45

I'm so OCD on IDing all the guns I practically scan each scene with my super mind powers. I love TBS, it has some great quotes (littered with cusses, but still worthy of adding in the captions IMO), and so far the hardest armory scene I've done was on Commando, and I didn't circle all of those, I just said what I saw. I'm kinda nerdy, I'm trying to memorize the prayer the brothers say before they kill people. I used to take Latin so I know basic words and could likely translate some of these quotes. Prayers are usually very simple Latin. Same thing with their tatoos. Of all the scenes in that movie, my favorite was probably the scene when Rocco kills the guys in the diner because the way it was shot and the music used just made it perfect. Either that or the shootout in the game room, because intercutting with Decker re-enacting the scene was cool. Seeing Willem Dafoe kiss a guy (passionately) and wearing drag was rather disturbing though. After I finish this movie, I'm going to do the first Matrix movie. Then the mini-series Lonesome Dove. Then I'll do the other Matrix movies. - Gunmaster45

What's up with the screenshot?

I just saw the screencap you uploaded of the Carl Gustaf M/45 page and was wondering what's up with it, since I made that page. I'm not mad or anything, just curious as to what's up. Orca1 9904 17:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Glock Classification

I went ahead and added the Glock page to the Submachine Gun category since the Glock 18 does technically classify in that category, also we have the M16 rifle series classified in the SMG and sniper rifle categories for the Colt 9mm SMG and Mk. 12 SPR, respectively. Orca1 9904 17:55, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Titles starting with 'The' ....

I am willing to start mass changing titles that start with "The" to the standard nomenclature (used by IMDB) (i.e. instead of "The Shining" (yeah I know we don't have that movie ...) it would be "Shining, The". I can't count how many people have complained to me (in person, not on the net) about that.

I have some famous armorers complaining about that ;) SO I am willing to start changing them myself. Any complaints? Seriously, if any of you are seriously offended by that, I will change them back.... no charge ;) But the last straw was some blog making fun of us because of that. :( So I am going to start changing the titles. Just wanted to give a heads up....

(edit: I've done nine titles as a test. So far, I like them, but I think you had a cool technique regarding re-directs which would allow the main page to have the fixed titles, but when you click on it, it goes to the original named page. Please let me know if you think that is possible. Other than that, let me know what you think regarding the asthetics of the naming changes. I like it for the listings, better than the previous style.) :)

Update on the new gun pics.... I started the new photo shoot on Say, but had to cut it short. Will reschedule and complete my massive new gun shoot either tomorrow or the next day. When I have a bunch, I start uploading them. :) But you guys are already bored with guns pics by now.MoviePropMaster2008 06:56, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Title change

Well we all can disagree on somethings, I've always hated how our listing alphabetized on "the" as a "T". I think that's just stupid, since nearly everyone ignores "The" when looking for a title. Libraries do it, Video stores do it and I get pissed when I look for "The Dark Knight" but instinctively look in the 'D' section and see nothing. I've hated it since I joined the site, but also recently I've shown this site to famous armorers, and when their first comment is "great site, but sorting by "the", that's stupid" was the motivation I had to get off my ass and fix it. Heck, Mike Papac hated it. So I will still change the titles. I think you will find it easier to find movie pages as well. Thanks for your understanding. MoviePropMaster2008 20:52, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

In the Army Now M16's

It's been a while since I've seen this movie and I was recalling what I could from memory, but I could have sworn they used M16A2's in at least some scenes. Hopefully someone will be able to screencap this movie and put the matter to rest. Orca1 9904 21:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

AK issues

Okay, You're gonna hate me even more, but I was wondering how we can fix the AK issue. We have too many AK variants that are starting to appear and to add them all to the AK page may be confusing since so many are made by different countries (including the US as of recent years). I was thinking of an original page for only RUSSIAN AK-47 rifles and then all other Russian designs (AK104, etc.) And then a second page for AK-47 - variants (Chinese) and then AK-47 - variants (European). Or something like that. I would like to have a page where we can put the European AK variants (Bulgarian, Hungarian, Romanian, Yugoslavian, etc.)

Anyway here is just me thinking out loud. 1) AK-47 (Russian designs only) 7.62 or 5.56mm only (Recently Russia has been making 5.56 versions of all their guns) 2) AK-47 Variants (Chinese) 7.62 or 5.56mm (All variants including commercial monstrosities like the MAK-90 thumbhole guns) 3) AK-47 Variants (European) 7.62 or 5.56mm (This is where we can start listing the Hungarian, Polish, East German, Bulgarian, Romanian, Yugoslavian variations) 4) AK-74 (Russian Designs only) 5.45mm guns only and all derivations

But it's the preponderance of the Chinese AK clones that are used to impersonate Russian guns in movies, that screws up my 'evil plan'. I know you want all ak variations on one page (like our M16 Page) but the M16 page has all variations made in the U.S. We don't have a dozen other countries making their own custom variations of the M16, like the AK does.

Anyway, I'm not chomping at the bit to do this, but I was wondering where I could start putting entries for the Hungarian, Romanian, or Yugo guns.... MoviePropMaster2008 21:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

RPG in movies

While I obviously don't have the experiance of MPM, I think the RPGs have special warheads that POP when fired (watch them fire RPGs in Black Hawk Down, the warheads seem to explode instead of launch), or in The Dark Knight, they might fire foam warheads similair to the warhead but it just hits stuff instead of blowing up. And of course the cheapest alternative is to use all CGI.

Check out The Boondock Saints, I finished it finally and it has 52 guns! No wonder I put it off, I knew that armory was going to kill me. Anyway, I have to go to school tommorow so I'm going to sleep. Ugh, I hate school. - Gunmaster45

You might get a kick out of this

Would YOU want a handgun collection like this? The pistols on the right side belong to Syd Stembridge (he still has some stuff), and the back wall and left wall belong to Mike Papac. (And yes, the boxes on the ground are full, there is no room on the walls left. All the empty slots are for handguns that are either out for repair or out on rental. My own handgun inventory is less than half of theirs, so I'm a small fry compared to these guys. But I thought you'd get a kick out of this pic. A similar pic has been seen in articles in the past about Stembridge Gun Rentals, so it's nice to see that this room still exists, though I need a bigger wide angle lens, I can't get back far enough to even get a fraction of the room. It is massive.

File:HandgunRoom.jpg

the handgun room

MoviePropMaster2008 21:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Imagine if you will.......

Walking down a hallway in a warehouse, from floor to ceiling are wooden cubbyholes, in these cubby holes are jammed multiple items which comprise three specific things (either submachine gun, select fire pistol, or short barreled shotgun). I am not sure how these items are sorted but I don't care, I like it! I LOVE poking around places like this. It make me happy :) I also see some items which I will try to photograph for IMFDB in the future (recognizing some of the stuff that I have on my list to take pics of for some of the specific movie pages). I just needed to cheer myself up after hearing daily news from the new administration! Just thought I'd share it! :)

File:ArmoryWall02.jpg

Which cubbyhole do you want to stick your hand in first!? ;)

MPM2008

Hey, thanks for the information.

I'm still rather new to the whole wiki thing. This is the first wiki site I've ever contributed too, and I'm still getting used to the way you guys do things. I've built up a few pages now, but I rely on you guys for most of the identification of firearms, I'm not too good at that. If you can, look over the pages I've made and see if you can identify anything. I've built up The Deer Hunter, He Was A Quiet Man, American Beauty, and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels since I've come here. - Diego Wolfwood

Formatting Errors

Thanks. I'm still learning. Appreciate the advice. Jcordell

What?

Someone could've been looking for the nail gun for whatever reason. Why'd you delete it? Afterall, it is a used wepond in the movie, and should be regarded as one. There's a few other weponds used in this site that aren't actually weponds, but THEY are allowed? What's up with that?

HK94s

then we should separate the HK94 conversions from the real MP5s. I am against "just calling them MP5s and be done with it". I've seen those guns and the receivers are marked HK94 and their paperwork calls them converted HK94. Everyone just called them MP5 because they were lazy. Also it is a part of movie weaponry history that these converted HK94s were used. 99% of them are gone now, Mike Papac bought all the remaining ones (except mine) and did the full conversion so that we can't tell. But it's wrong to deny the HK94's place in cinema history when they were used so much (and we can also tell the difference). Also there are more Post 86 samples of real MP5s NOW than HK94s in movie inventory. The transferable HK94s are mostly in the hands of private Class III people. So we need to list what films they appeared in, since after the cut off date (when Mike converted the remaining few completely), they for all practical purposes ... disappeared from movies. MoviePropMaster2008 19:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Aw crap. Never mind then. The thumbs on that page are so small that I got confused. I blew them up and you're right. They ARE full MP5s. My bad. I guess we're on the same page. :)

New pics

I know that they're not as sexy as the hero guns, But I have been slowly and steadilyi replacing stock gun pics (like the AKMS, the Glock 27, (and I replaced the shot of that SL8 new model that the other uploaded ;) ). But MAN! the new users are kicking my ass. Creating new page after new page. My list of gun photos to get has tripled! :( MPM2008

Maxim MG08 Photo

Thanks. Thats a much better photo of a Maxim on Wind and the Lion, The Jcordell

you tired yet?

I've noticed you've been re-directing all the bullshit new pages created by new anonymous users to the correct pages. I've been deleting some BS pages too but you've been very good at cleaning up IMFDB. MPM

edits

Ah yes, silly me :) I forgot about your directive to do re-directs. :) Good idea.

Goodbye

Just wanted to see if you learned your lesson (which you did). Ciao.

We Were Soldiers

Hey Matt, On the AKs had the receivers made and then I assembled them while the unit was at Ft.Bragg filming. They are then nicest and smoothest AK's I have ever worked on or used. Steve

M16K

Glade you liked the photo of the M16K, LaFrance also built it in .45 caliber but I don't think any ever made it into the film industry. Steve

Taking no more gun pics

apparently it is becoming more acceptable for others to create 'frankengun' photoshop jobs out of my original pics and not even give credit. Heck. I would give credit to the jacked shots that I clean up with recropping, or color correcting if I knew who the original photographer was. But that's a minor point. My intent all along was to replace all jacked images with official licensed images. It's a lot of hard work and only a very few (like you) even seem to appreciate it. (plus you're way more tolerant of the inevitable flood of conflicting page styles and info from new (and some anonymous) users ... inevitable as the site gets more recognition). I'm on hiatus for taking pics of guns for a bit. Working hard for IMFDB should be enjoyable, not irritating. :( A break is good thing. MPM

re:Re

Thanks for clearing that up. As you know I'm not an AK pro. - Gunmaster45

Anonymous User 74.129.198.160

What a dick, thanks for blocking him. I particularly disliked his comment on the Heist page, although I kind of laughed when he changed Solid Snake to "Solid Cock". None the less he was a vandal and the site is far better off without him, good work. - Gunmaster45

A vandal and a jackass, most definitely. Have to admit though, that last change he made was priceless. Blade uses a Benelli M3 to commit tax fraud. I'm still laughing. --Clutch 02:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, atleast he has a decent sense of humor. - Oliveira

server upgrade

We serve up a lot of images and need to step up on both the speed and size of the drives along with the speed of the processors. We're currently on a 4 core 2.4Ghz Xeon server (which we are constantly maxing out). The upgrade I was looking at is an 8 core 3Ghz Xeon box with a 15k RPM 72GB drive. We would keep the current server as a 'failover' which would also host the latest backup. bunni 03:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I just checked out the server stats, removing the front page screencaps reduced the server's processor load 30%. We need to figure out a way to just show a single image and link to the article, maybe we use the movie poster image? Or just select one highlight shot? We could use the same choose and option code we had been using and just insert a standard image tag with a screenshot of our choosing linking to the page? That may be the quickest way to work it for now. bunni 03:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Blocking anonymous users, period.

Perhaps there's a way so that anonymous users just can't do anything other than look, period? It would sure save you and the other mods/admins a lot of trouble in the long run... --Clutch 20:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Jacked image

Hey, MT2008, I came across a site with a jacked MPM2008 image on it: [2]

I already left a note on MPM2008's talk page btw.--Alienqueen11 04:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

RE: Jacked Image

I would just tell him not to upload MPM2008's images on other sites, I don't think he knew that MPM didn't want his images on other sites.--Alienqueen11 02:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

User talk:MT2008

airsoft

Sig 228

Recent Weapon Articles

Sorry about my edits.

Norinco Type 54/questionable conversation

Back for a bit

Gunmaster45

A pic and an update

Long barreled AKs

Re: Your Articles

re:Sahara

Sahara

Thanks for the help

Guns in The Siege

Good to have you back. :)

hello

I am re-editing Red Dawn

Type 84

Incredible Hulk Grenade Launchers

My two cents on the Hulk Launchers

Your CZ99 pic

Editing Dogs of War

Raw Deal page and other thoughts

Type 56

re: Type 56

New Images

Updates

Zastava

Re: Lord of War

Hey

Hey again

Question

U.S. Marshals Screenshot Needed

Photo request for SIGP226

MT2008's question re: Colt Launchers

Thanks

Reply

More pics

XM177

Re: Beretta

RE:Dirty Harry

Re: Your comment on the Rambo II HK93

Finally put the MP5A5 in

Saving Private Ryan

Garand Pics

Ask and Ye shall Receive

Two Tones part 2

More of your questions answered

Casino Royale

XXX

Where Eagles Dare

Bad Boys II P226

Need some help

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Should cartoons be allowed?

New Pics

Re: Helping out with replacing pics

Dawn of the Dead

Tybalts Gun

Special page

keeping me honest

Problem fixed

Just made you an Admin

Beretta Inox flashpaper gun

non guns

Pics

Re: Screenshots

Okay the ugly gun has a good looking cousin!

Thanks

Question

Type 56 underfolder

SR9s and AKs

SR9

worries

New pics

Luger P08

Congrats

Taurus 85

G3 page