Talk:List of weapons used by U.S. Armed Forces

Thank you to whoever created this page, I've thought a lot about trying to do a page like this myself, since a lot of people on this site like to point out "That isn't what a solder/officer in such and such military of law enforcement agency would use in real life." Maybe if this page proves to be popular we could do other pages about other agencies. --AndCA 22:06, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Your very welcome :) everything on that page took about a month to make due to my schedule (and I'm only 15). I am planning on doing a page about the British and the Russian armed forces but I want to have this done first. Mr.Ice 22:17, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I didn't know the Marines have started using the SCAR H Excalibur01 22:23, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I may have gotten some incorrect info during my research, I'll look into it. Mr.Ice 22:31, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Thank You for doing this, the fact that you are fifteen only makes me have more respect for you.--Dillinger 23:29, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Mate, big respect for you for doing this! Well done! If you need any info on what the British Armed Forces do, please let me know, I can help with that!! Again, proper nice job mate!! Fixer

As far as I know the only use by the USMC of the SCAR platform was a variant of the 'L' model during trials for the M27. The H&K 416 was chosen. --Crazycrankle 01:26, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Doesn't the Navy also use the M16A3 variant? Insertjjs 6:37, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Yes they do, my Seabee buddy's issued weapon is an M16A3 with a 203.-Ranger01 11:56, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Are we doing out of service rifles and shotguns as well? Wicked wikipedia gives a complete list if that helps he page.-Balin21 12:30, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Of course. Mr.Ice 12:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

YES!!!

THIS IS AN AWESOME IDEA!!! One that I have been wanting to do for a while. Gets my 100% stamp of approval! --Zackmann08 08:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Glad you like it I just hope this gets done soon so I can work on my next idea. Mr.Ice 08:55, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

When this one is done, how about one for the British Armed Forces, SAS and suchlike? --Taurus96 10:25, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I have been thinking about one for the British I may do one like that next. Mr.Ice 11:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

If you do, don't forget they recently adopted the LMT 7.62 as their new Sniper rifle/DMR Excalibur01 11:47, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

That they do, but I don't think we have a page for it since it's not shown up in media yet. The Wierd It 12:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

No, it hasn't appeared in anything to my knowledge, and we need to emphasize that this page, like all other pages on IMFDb, is for weapons used in films, TV, or video games, not an end-all list of every weapon ever used by an armed force. Spartan198 03:13, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

SDM-R picture

I'm looking for a good shot of the Army's Squad Designated Marksman Rifle, but I can't find one. Can anyone help me out? --Dirty Harold 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I'm reasonably sure it's not that different from the M16A4, aside from subtle differences in the rails (DD M4Rail rather than KAC M5) and differences to the barrel which are hidden by the rails. The Wierd It 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Never mind, then; I'll simply remove it on the grounds that's it's not dissimilar from M16A4 model. --Dirty Harold 11:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

The SDM-R was a very limited trial program and it was only fielded to one unit before it was canceled and/or withdrawn from service. The SAM-R met a similar end when the Marines opted for the Mark 12 Mod 1 instead. Spartan198 16:34, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

P226R

Don't the SEALs use the 226 with a rail now? Excalibur01 11:01, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

According to SIG the SEALs currently use a P226 with a Picatinny rail that is not the standard rail found on P226s. In the past they have used folded steel slides without any rail or other outward identifying marks. When they went to the stainless steel slides an anchor was added to be able to easily tell which were the new slides and which were the older model. At some point a rail was added during the use of the stainless slides, which lead to a complaint that not all light attachments worked on it (can't complain about an out of spec rail on a gun without a rail), so the current model was outfitted with a true 1913 picatinny rail. Dover500 11:02, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

Page name

Should the "firearms" be changed to "weapons", as there are several things on here that I would not call firearms, such as the grenades, mines and launchers. --commando552 12:15, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I say go for it if accuracy is the case Mr.Ice 12:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

USMC SOCOM

Should the listing of USMC SOCOM be changed to USMC MARSOC since MARSOC is the branch of the USMC that is a part of SOCOM. I think USMC SOCOM just sounds odd because it describes the USMC branch of SOCOM. This is just my opinion, what do you guys think? --SmithandWesson36 13:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Done.The Wierd It 13:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Thanks. --SmithandWesson36 14:00, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Magazine capacities

Great idea Mr.Ice. Anyway, is it OK if I add the various magazine capacities for the firearms with the caliber in parentheses beside it?

It is already there... Under "Capacity"... And sign your post. --Zackmann08 17:04, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Colt Rail Gun

I think it's been adopted very recently to replace the Kimber ICQB, should it go on the page?--Recon42 06:35, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

it is already on there as the Colt XSE, it is the same gun as the one pictured except with a desert tan finish and grips. --commando552 06:49, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

The XSE along with the Kimber are also used by Army Special Forces and 1st SFOD-D. Puppet.of.fate 21:58, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

Last time I checked the Special Forces still used M9s. The Wierd It 08:56, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

They may use it or have used it but their regular sidearm is a M1911 variant or a Glock. The M9 and M9A1 are standard issue so it isn't uncommon for Special Forces to pick it up and use it once in a while. Puppet.of.fate 14:10, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

I'm very interested to see your source on that. Last time I checked the only bit of the US Army to still use 1911s was Delta. The Wierd It 15:49, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

In a number of 'Small Arms of the World' books I own along with a book co-written by General Carl Stiner, a former Commander in Cheif of USSOCOM. I would love to see the source of your info. Puppet.of.fate 17:36, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

Let's jump straight to the photography then.

• Special Forces medic in Afghanistan, 2007. Note the Beretta holstered on his belt.
• US Army Special Forces at the Fuerzas Comando 2012 event. Note the obvious M9 being reloaded in the first photo.
• Special Forces NCO Instructor at the 2011 USASFC Soldier and NCO of the Year Competition. Note the M9 in his holster.
• Army Special Forces soldiers conduct range training, 2010. Every single one of them has an M9.
• Special Forces training at Fort Carson, Colorado. 2010. Holstered M9s.

In short, for a weapon not regularly used by US Army Special Forces, there's a lot of images of US Army Special Forces with M9s. Note though that I am only calling you out on your assertion about the 1911; there's plenty of evidence for Glocks in the last year or so. The Wierd It 02:46, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Well I can't tell you you're wrong and I will correct what I said and admit they apparently do use it more often then I thought but you can't honestly tell me I'm wrong either when my source material clearly states they do use M1911 variants. We are talking about Special Forces here so what they use is honestly their choice.Puppet.of.fate 13:29, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

And yet nowhere in the 1200+ images I checked through did I see a single 1911 pattern pistol aside from two presentation pieces. The Wierd It 13:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Just because they're not there, doesn't mean they don't exist. You can't find everything on the internet. Puppet.of.fate 13:55, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, if the 1911 was the standard sidearm of the US Army Special Forces, don't you think there would be a lot of pictures of them with the 1911? When were these books of your's written? --SmithandWesson36 14:10, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

For the record, the General who co-wrote one of the books he cited retired in '93.The Wierd It 14:11, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

His retirement date has no relavence. He's former Special Forces and Commander in Chief of USSOCOM, I'm pretty sure his information would be pretty up to date when he wrote the book. The book he co-wrote was published in 2002 and the most recent one I have of the other's is from 2007. And no, I don't think they'd have pictures all over the internet of them, they're Special Forces, and I honestly don't believe he searched through 1200+ photo's of them to gather his info. Puppet.of.fate 15:37, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Okay, there might not be a lot of pictures of the SF, but there is at least 1200+ talked about here, and out of 1200+ not one of them shows the SF soldiers with their supposed "standard sidearm," the 1911. --SmithandWesson36 16:08, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

And as I stated before, just because it isn't there doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For the record I never stated it was their 'standard issue.' I said it was their regular sidearm. They're Special Forces, they have no 'standard issue.' Lets make this simple, no matter what I say you're not going to believe me, which is fine I know what I know and you know what you know. He can't find a picture of it and I have books that state it, its a discussion that won't end. It's an agree to disagree situation. Puppet.of.fate 17:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, regular sidearm means that it would be used in large quantities by them and yet we have no photographic evidence of them using the 1911. If we go by the fact that they can use whatever they want, why don't we just list every handgun and say, "There is a chance someone in the military is using one." There is a way to end this discussion, what are the name of these books that you got your info from? --SmithandWesson36 18:54, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Professionalsoldiers.com ask them yourselves, they should know what they carry. (Most on there prefer Glocks btw.)-Ranger01 22:39, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't really trust PS, because anyone can go on it and post whatever they want. --SmithandWesson36 02:20, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

Not necessarily true, you have to be vetted to have certain user names and the "Quiet Professional" tag, they will actually go look through their class lists and etc to find out if a person is who they say they are, and if someone posts BS or w/e they get the boot-Ranger01 02:42, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

It says in their bulletin board rules page that not every user is a "Quiet Professional," so they could be anybody. --SmithandWesson36 02:44, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

I believe the implication here is that the ones with the "Quiet Professional" tag won't be talking out of their arse like regular users. The Wierd It 02:51, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

Oh, okay, I misunderstood that. Okay, it seems like a much more reliable source to me now. --SmithandWesson36 05:01, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

M11 Pistol

I wasn't aware that NCIS uses the P228 anymore. I thought they used the P229 DAK. I'm posting this to let you know why I changed it on the main page. Just thought I'd let you know. (By the way, if anyone has any comments, feel free to respond to me.) --Mormonpowerranger521 15:30 (CDT)

According to (the ever-accurate, lol) Wikipedia, they no longer use the P228. However, it says that they also use the P239 DAK as well as the P229 DAK. --Dirty Harold 19:22, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

Gun order

Right now the guns, particularly the out of service ones, seem to be in a pretty random order. What do people think would be the best way to categorise them by, alphabetically, chronologically, user or notoriety? --commando552 18:28, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

Chronologically sounds good, probably from earliest to latest. --Dirty Harold 19:30, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

I agree, it will better in that order. --RaNgeR 20:03, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

Done. At least for the out of service ones anyway. Jimmoy (talk) 13:25, 30 September 2012 (EDT)

M4A1

It needs to be notated that the M4A1 is only standard issue to special operations/ and Rangers. The M4 carbine (Semi and burst fire) is the standard rifle for front-line combat arms units in the US Army. --AdAstra2009 21:28, 24 July 2012 (CDT)

Done. Spartan198 23:26, 25 July 2012 (CDT)

NCIS

So this page lists the weapons of the US Armed Forces, like the Army, Navy, Marines, etc. NCIS is a federal agency, not part of the Armed Forces. Should it be removed? --Mormonpowerranger521 19:35 (CDT)

NCIS is part of the Department of the Navy. --Dirty Harold 08:35, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

OK, so I'll go ahead and add CID as well, as it's part of the Army. But should other federal agencies be added, as they are part of the Department of Justice or Homeland Security, and they are also technically part of the US Armed Forces as well? --Mormonpowerranger521 16:48 (CDT)

The CID doesn't need to be there anyway, as the weapons they use are already listed with the US Army. The only reason the NCIS is listed (if it deserves to be here anyway, my opinion is that it shouldn't as is a federal law enforcement agency and not part of "Armed Forces") is that they use weapons that are not used by the regular Navy. --commando552 17:56, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Don't forget OSI (Office of Special Investigations), the Air Force equivelant. On an unrelated not, why would EOD use the Mk18? It's not like they need super-short weapons for CQB, they dispose of bombs.--Mandolin 17:52, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

EOD in most forces tend to use shorter weapons than regular infantry as they only carry weapons for personal defence, and the lighter weight of smaller weapons is a plus when you have to carry additional specialist equipment. --commando552 17:56, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

So the question is, I guess, do we keep NCIS, and by that reasoning, add a whole bunch more federal agencies (DHS, FBI, ATF, etc.), or do we remove it as it technically isn't part of the "Armed Forces?" I vote remove. --Mormonpowerranger521 19:02 (CDT)

SIG P239

I have read somewhere that the P239 was issued by DEVGRU to plain clothes operators, does anyone know if this is true? --SmithandWesson36 14:43, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

I'm looking at a page right now that says the same thing, but there's no way to confirm it since it doesn't give a source. The Wierd It 14:48, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

That's actually the page I read it on, but I didn't trust it without a source. --SmithandWesson36 14:51, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Certainly, SIG aren't pimping it the same way that they do with the P226.The Wierd It 14:53, 26 July 2012 (CDT)

Colt XSE Image

Is it worth replacing the Colt XSE image with this one? Since that's the actual weapon being adopted, not the XSE. The Wierd It 11:57, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

I think we should replace the current image with this one, it's more accurate. --SmithandWesson36 12:08, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

What about this image? --Mormonpowerranger521 13:51, 30 July 2012 (CTD)

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Colt Rail Gun - .45ACP

That is no closer match than the stainless one, as the M45 will have a tan finish. I was the one who made the entry with the XSE image, the reason being that it was the only image on here and I didn't want to add an image of a gun that hadn't appeared in anything yet. But as someone has now uploaded the tan one, might as well use it. Also, the reason I originally had it listed as an XSE is because that it what we currently list the railed frame XSE (which is what this gun is) as. Colt currently markets it as the "Colt Rail Gun" but it was originally called the "Colt XSE Rail Gun". As it seems that Colt have now split them, I suppose it might be an idea to split them on the 1911 page into "XSE" and "Rail Gun" sections. --commando552 15:18, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

== Confederate States of America ==

Insert "south shall rise again joke". Don't want to be technically but This page is for the US Armed forces, not the CSA armed forces Excalibur01 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

Late 19th Century Special Operations Firearms?

This has nothing to do with this page per se, but of all the pages here this one is most fitting. I have been wondering what American "Special Forces" or what you would like to call them, would have used in the 1870/1880's?

If some soldiers/agents/assassains would been sent on a specific important mission, what firearms would they have used? Winchester 1873's? Sharps Carbines? Springfield Trapdoor Rifles? Spencer Repeating Rifles?

Would they use Shotguns? And what Handguns?

Thanks in Advance!--Z008MJ (talk) 10:06, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

Short answer what people would consider American "Special Forces" didn't exist in the 1870/1880's. The closest thing to that would have been the Calvary, or maybe Buffalo Solders, both of which would have used the carbine version of whatever rifle was standard issue (I think the Trapdoor Springfield, but in the early 1870's it could have been something else). The prevailing strategy of that time period was still to have troops gather en mass when fighting each other. The modern idea of special forces comes from the First South African/Second Boer War (1899-1902). In this conflict the British saw the the effectiveness of the Boer Commandos in reeking havoc on there numerically superior forces. Later the British implemented the strategy within there own forces, to the point where they even borrowed the name of those specialized solders from there adversary ie commando (Boer=white South African of Dutch decent). Dover500 (talk) 11:06, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

How about a hypotethical situation then? If ever there was a national threat coming from a single concentrated group of people, who obviously had no army, and soldiers were sent to eliminate them and everyone else at whatever place they resided, would there just be ordinary soldiers with Trapdoor Rifles sent there then?

Also, while not related to the army, what would the Pinkertons have used around that time?--Z008MJ (talk) 11:33, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

In that hypothetical situation Calvary would be the first group sent in, most likely with light artillery for increased firepower. The main firearms would be Trapdoor carbines and colt SAA or Smith and Wesson model 3 revolvers. For the tactics that would be used, look at the conflicts in the midwest involving Native Americans, as that is rather close to the situation which you are describing. Pinkertons were known to use mainly shotguns and revolvers, as they tended to get in conflicts at close range, but as to specifics of which type of each I do not know. Dover500 (talk) 12:26, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

If you take the 7th Cavalry at the battle of Little Bighorn in 1876 as an example, they were generally armed with 1873 Trapdoor carbines and carried a pair of Colt SAA revolvers (sabred were not carried to cut down on weight and noise). The officers would have also potentially have carried personally purchased weapons which they would also use for hunting, such as Remington Rolling Blocks and Sharp's rifles along with shotguns and possibly Winchester 1873s. Custer himself was though to have personally carried a pair of custom Webley RICs and a sporterised .50 Remington Rolling Block rifle. Scouts would have carried a variety of weaponry, often having both a single shot "buffalo" rifle like a Sharp's for long range shooting along with a repeating rifle such as a Henry, Spencer or Winchester, plus whatever sidearms they had. --commando552 (talk) 13:03, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, that is very informative. Were Henry's and Spencers still used at that time? I thought Winchester was all the rage then.

If no one has anything else too add then i have gotten enough answers, very helpful of both of you.--Z008MJ (talk) 14:08, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

Experimental AA-12?

AA-12 shotgun should have been undergoing assessments in USMC since 2004... Are they being put into service? Should I add the AA-12s in the page?? --S9771773G (talk) 02:32, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

Oh no its alright， I have yet to see the Experimental section at the bottom of the page... Im just wondering if AA-12 has already enter service? --S9771773G (talk) 02:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

HK45C Designation

I've seen on a few sites that the HK45C is designated the Mk 24 Mod 0 by the SEALs, I thought this was the designation of the P226. Are these sites wrong or is this the real designation and the SIG is actually the Mk 25 Mod 0? --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 22:36, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

I wasn't aware it had a designation to start with. Although people do seem to be running under the assumption that because SIG called their new SEAL P226 replica pistol the Mk25, that must therefore also be the Real Steel designation. The Wierd It (talk) 05:21, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

I was going off of this page. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 10:13, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

Personally I think the designations make more sense the other way around, since then it goes in adoption order (Mk.23 (SOCOM), Mk.24 (SIG), Mk.25 (HK45CT)). The Wierd It (talk) 11:06, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

Wasn't the SIG adopted in the 80's and the Mk 23 Mod 0 adopted in the mid-90's? --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 11:38, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

Whoops. >.< The Wierd It (talk) 11:44, 6 October 2012 (EDT)