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Talk:The Unit
This is one of those hard series since pictures are hard to find and I'm not a master of screenshots.
I like to keep the format I've set for the photos of M4s and MP5Ks the way it is because there were a lot of photos and I think the current format for those are appealing.
Beretta Cheetah or SIG-Sauer? (updated 8/10/10)
I've added some pics and it looks more like a SIG. Mack also mentions in the episode that she's carrying a .45 instead of 9mm. --Ben41 04:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.
What does this look like? Cause someone say it's a Cheetah. Cause it looks like a USP Excalibur01
- Looks like a Beretta Cheetah in the cap and looked like one last time I watched the episode (which wasn't that long ago). It's too round and curvy to be a USP, which is square and blocky. Spartan198 16:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Then we have a continuity error in the dialogue. In the same episode where she used this gun, Mack asked why is she using a .45 than a 9? Excalibur01 18:14, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Either that or it's implying her back-up is a larger caliber than her primary (a choice which doesn't make sense to me, either). Maybe just a script error or a moment of miscommunication between the armorer and director/writer/etc.? Heck, maybe the director just liked the Cheetah more? Who knows really. Spartan198 00:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Her back up is a Derringer gun. Excalibur01
- Oh yeah, now I remember. This scene is one of the more ridiculous ones in the show. Basically, Redcap empties her Cheetah into the soldier's body armor, kicks away his M4 but ignores the fact that the guy has a sidearm, drops the empty magazine from her gun with the guy staring straight up at her, then gets on the radio without reloading her gun first. I literally screamed "you idiot" at the TV. Spartan198 16:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- It was obviously on purpose for the script so she can bust out her back up. And about that episode, the rest of the unit had encountered at least 2 enemies with M4s and extra ammo, yet it never shows them picking up enemy weapons. They were running out during that last stand. That one bad guy's M4 would have been very useful right about then. Excalibur01
Look at the last pic. Thats a SIG for sure. Looks like Jack Bauers SIG from the first few seasons of 24.
- Yeah, now that you mention it, it does look like a SIG. P245 maybe by the squared trigger guard? Spartan198 10:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Here's a few more screencaps. I'm still not sure what it is, but it's definitely a SIG, either a P229 or P239.
--Lynx 21:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
So which SIG shoots a .45? Besides the P220 Excalibur01 22:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Neither the P229 or P239 do. I imagine the line about the .45 is just an error on the scriptwriter's part. Taking another look at the screencaps, I think it's a P229. Note that there are two grip screws, where the P239 only has one. In addition, the empty magazine looks to be a double-stack (the P239 is single-stack).--Lynx 23:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with Lynx. It's a two-tone P229. Also, NEVER go by what the script says, because that's a bad way to tell. The screenwriter may have written in ".45", but the armorer may have brought a 9mm 229 to the set. -MT2008 23:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
- Like the script for Predators. All the guns are completely NOT what the script writer wanted Excalibur01 01:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Probably Hard Shots to find
I only saw the first episode of this show and if memory serves me right, one guy went quail hunting with a pump shotgun (870 I believe) and then was held up by a man with a Mini-14 which I think had a 30 or 40 round magazine. Since the first episode isn't easy to find on the computer, I'm assuming this shot would be difficult to come by unless someone owns the first season on DVD. -GM
- That wasn't the first episode. It was another episode of the first season. I do remember that scene and will find shots of that eventually.
- Saw another episode one day were everyone was holed up in this house and one guy outside was shooting at BGs with a Browning M2 mocked up as a DShK. Sorry I can't help further but I don't watch it enough to describe further. Lot of good shots of M4A1s too. - Gunmaster45
On the page, it said that Mack had a Kimber Warrior, can someone upload some pictures of that? Dirtdiver 6421 19:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
The Televised pictures of the Kimber Warrior doesnt look like a real Warrior. First, there is no laynard loop on the bottom of the grip. Second, the finish on the nose is showing some silver, and the KimPro finish doesnt wear like that. Could the show actually use a TLE/RL or maybe a SWAT edition. Spades of Columbia
TLE was used for a few seasons, then switched to the Warrior. Mack uses a normal 1911 most of the time in the newer seasons. i do remember one episode. i dont recall the name, but i believe it was called "Stress". the one were their in africa and find a terrorist. i think Hector had one. and so did Jonas. if at all possible, can someone please add a couple of them that Mack uses them? Dirtdiver6421 01:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
The SWAT custom one doesn't have the rail for optics Excalibur01 04:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Size of pics
I am not sure of the so called "format" of this site but I like the format of the M4 and MP5K section and how it's arranged and want to keep it that way. Also some pics are larger than others. The reason is that if they are smaller than 600 then they would look distorted. This didn't really happen in the old server. but for here I had to make them larger to they won't look so you can't seen any pixal on them. The larger size gives the photos smoother looks.
Not a mk 12
If someone has a better name to call it, then correct it. Saying it isn't something else isn't helping in identifying what the sniper rifle is.
Eat your Hard Boiled out
The Unit section now beats even Hard Boiled with over 60+ guns counted
- Nice work, now I can only say that Hard Boiled is the largest movie page. To be fair though, a T.V. show can grow, a movie stays still but anyway, great work.
- Yeah, nice job. I honestly have to admit that I don't have the patience to do TV show pages just cause they tend to feature lots of guns over the course of several seasons (especially a weapons-heavy military show like The Unit). Plus, I rarely buy entire seasons of TV shows.
- Well It was hard to track down the previous season since links to them have poor connection. I had considered renting the DVDs. Either way, this show has an impressive array of firearms and it isn't stopping in what the Unit shoots next.
Rearrange of Garand, Winchester, and SKS
Recently the SKS, M1 Garand and the Winchester 1886 was moved to "other weapons" because they don't fit either section of Assault rifle nor sniper rifle. Hence they would be placed in the same section as the musket rifle would be since they are dated weapons.
That´s a L1A1 SLR
judging by the handguards and the front sight,that´s a L1A1.
- It's still a FAL
Two nit picks...
The derringer that Jonas carries in while wearing the tux looks like a High Standard Derringer. These were double action, tip down, .22 magnum as opposed to the single action, tip up, .41 rimfire of the original Remington design.
Also, the lever action noted as a Winchester 1886 looks more like a Marlin 336. The 1886's bolt occupied most of the center of the upper reciever, while the Marlin has a round bolt with the ejection port on the right side of the reciever. In the pic, you can see the silver, circular section right in front of the hammer, which is the bolt.
http://www.outdoorsurvivalinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/start1_med1.jpg
Great site, thanks for all the trouble! Doug K
SU-16
The keltec su-16 page says one was used in the show and i dont see it here. Anyone know where it was used? -K9870
- I don't see an SU-16. Anyone know which episode this supposively have appeared in? Excalibur01 19:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
R.I.P.
Just read over on Imdb that The Unit has been canceled by CBS. Bummer. --Jcordell 00:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- From what I can see, the cancellation hasn't been decided on yet. But piss on CBS if they do. The Unit is the only show I look forward to every week. Spartan198 10:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
- CBS canceled Jericho and then they canceled The Unit. That network just sucks. Excalibur01 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- Tell me about it. Two of the best shows in CBS history right there and they're more concerned with "reality" shows like Survivor (which, BTW, are actually filmed on sound stages and not in tropical jungles and whatnot). Spartan198 16:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Need help ID'ing AR-15 Variant.
As seen here: [[1]]. I'm pretty sure it's not a HK416, M4, or CQBR. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Model 933, but I'm no expert on AR-15s. Any help would be much appreciated.
- Looks like a 933 or equivalent to me. Spartan198
I guess it is. Time for another update. Excalibur01 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Optics w/ BUIS an anachronism?
How is having BUISs on an optic-equipped weapon an anachronism when military and police commonly use said combo? Hell, even the Barrett 82 has BUISs. No offense to whoever made that statement, but it's gotta be one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever read. Spartan198
- Wait, where is this said on the page? Excalibur01 02:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- Originally at the top of the Colt 933 section, but it's not there anymore. Spartan198
Breaking up pages
This page is getting too big to add any more items. I would like to break it up into different pages, creating new pages by weapons like the page is now and linking them to the original page. Has anyone else already started this? Ben41
- No offense, but screw that. Why break up a page just because it has too many guns? I mean have you seen Miami Vice? Mail Call? Hard boil? Those are pretty big pages too. I don't need to break up my page so that it is easier on your eyes. It's a waste of space and all it that pistol page has done was just waste space on the server. And what do you mean "too big to add anymore items?" There's no limit on how many guns you can put on a page as long as it has been shown on the show. Excalibur01 19:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
- However, Miami Vice was broken up into seasons because it took too long for the page to load or it crashed completely. The Unit doesn't have that problem, so I don't see a need to break it up. I do disagree about "there being no limit to adding to a page". the Miami Vice tv show is a prime example of a page getting so big it becomes unviewable to 99% of the potential users (unless someone has lightning fast internet connection and large RAM, which most people don't have. But I have no problems loading the Unit page, so I was mystified by the breakup. MPM2008
- If the Unit gets more seasons down the road with 10 times more guns, then I'll happily break it up. Excalibur01 13:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Here's hoping someone wises up and gives us a couple more seasons. Spartan198 10:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Small size caps?
Who turned all my caps from my standard 500x to this small size? It's ungodly small for a page like this. Excalibur01 19:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think the user thought that shrinking the thumbnails would speed up the loading time. It doesn't. The page still has to re-size whatever the size of the original image is. Also IMFDB's standard is 500px or 600px (for ultra widescreen or high resolution shots). Again we still need a rules page, to tell the new users what the page standards are. MoviePropMaster2008 20:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Breaking up pages (cont.)
If you go into the edit page, it gives a warning that the page is over 32kb and recommends that it should be broken up into different pages, but it looks like you want to keep it the way it is. So go ahead and delete the page with just the pistols on it. Ben41
- It's at 42kb. Not much larger than recommended. Miami Vice was at 93kb, before it was broken up. Season 1 and 2 are at 40kb apiece. Load time is not bad on The Unit. --Predator20 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
- Then I'll get rid of unnecessary gun caps. Excalibur01 13:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Is the Season 4 DVD box art really necessary? Spartan198 10:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, because I put it up as a featured article. --Ben41 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
CM203 entry added
I just got Season 4 on DVD, so I figured I'd jump at the chance and get caps of those Cobrays used in S4E7/8. I only took caps of them in episode 7, though, as I figured that was sufficient enough documentation for the article. Spartan198 07:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Like all armories for film and TV series, these would most likely be Cobray 37mm flare launchers that were designed to look like M203s. This is a common practice to have the appearance of 203s. It is unlikely any of the M203s seen in the series are real M203s.
- While that could be the case, the second picture of Blane show that it is an M203, the the C37. But, with the advancement of m203s and RIS systems, a soldier could simply slide on an m203. So, it could also be an airsoft replica if its never fired. The Winchester
- The only episodes I recall seeing Cobrays in are S4E7/8. Spartan198 19:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol
In the story. Jonas took 2 of these out as a hidden weapon that he kept within a rat trap. He handed on to is wife before he made a disappearing act. I guess in story it's supposed to resemble a Walther TP or TPH.
I don't know dude...these look a lot like the Walther PP or PPK to me. If these images are from the episode I am thinking of (the finale of Season 1) my reaction, at the time, was "why is Joans carrying such a weak ass pistol as his sidearm???".
Nah, the Walthers don't have that little extra piece of metal extending from the trigger guard to the barrel. But, then again...
- It looks like a Walther PSM. It's like a PPK but with an extended trigger guard. Hammer looks like it too. -GM
- What is a Walther PSM? Did you mean Walther TP or TPH? PSM is a Russian pistol made by Izhevsk.
- That is a Brixia 8mm Walther Blank Firing Pistol. I just checked the lower image against the one I have. Brixia Arms used to make this type of blank gun about 10 years ago, but their quality was pretty bad. There 'might' be some available, but the majority of the 8mm theatrical blank firing PPKs on the market now are made by Kimar or Voltran. What tips it off, is the writing on the slide (it is identical to the markings on my Brixia Nickel plated Walther PPK theatrical blank gun) and the hole drilled in the top of the barrel (where the ejection port is). This hole allows the flash from the blank round to fire upwards since the barrel is blocked. Also the magazine is a thin single stack type that only holds those skinny 8mm blank rounds. ____MoviePropMaster2008
M60E4
I put this pic here because I think it's copyrighted.--Ben41 08:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
number 3 biggest?
ok both this and stargate SG-1 page both say that they are the 3rd biggest --Armyguy277 02:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
The Unit is number 3, by my count there are about 40 more weapons. It's also about twice the physical size (KB) if that matters at all. --Crazycrankle 02:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
933 RIS?
What is this RIS?
Looks like DD Mk.18 RIS II but I'm not sure.
Looks more like a Yankee Hill rail. [2]
--Lynx 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Unknown M16
I've uploaded another screencap of the M16 Bob carries in "Natural Selection."
It's hard to tell since Scott Foley's thumb is in the way, but it appears that this rifle does not have a brass deflector, which would mean that it is not a Model 715 as has been suggested. Is there any official designation for this weapon (A1 sights, no brass deflector, A2 handguards and heavy barrel profile) or is simply a frankengun? --Lynx 01:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
- None that I know of. I've never seen or heard of that configuration before. Spartan198 10:03, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
- It's a Franken-rifle. It has an A1 upper receiver, an SP1 lower receiver, and an A2 heavy barrel. -MT2008 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm gonna say frankengun, too. Spartan198 10:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Five Brothers
Why would the team have LAMs on their weapons in a 100% CQB op? when it would make more sense to have a tac-light?
You mean the PEQs they got attached? Maybe the missions required them to use them when they get outside. Who knows, they do this all the time. Excalibur01 02:33, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
that doesnt even make sense. Beruit- a very close quarters city. why would they possible need an AN-PEQ? their guns have 10.5 inch barrels it would make sense to have a surefire tac-light. Dirtdiver 6421 00:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
A flashlights best purpose is to give your position away. If shit were to hit the fan, like it did, and they had to operate at night they would be far better off if they used the IR light for illumination. And the laser for aiming assist. Personally, I'd want a visible light source on my gun, but there's no issue having a hand held on you belt or vest. --Crazycrankle 05:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Into Hell
Does anyone find it odd how in Part-2 Mack and Grey didnt actually kill the Gunners. they like scared them off. they could have then went and not only confirmed their lack of an escape. but also confirm their Nationality? Dirtdiver 6421 00:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
But how would the gunners know their nationality?
I thought they did kill the gunner with the RPD and then took off, then waiting for the rest to give chase so that Jonas could go Rambo on them. Excalibur01 03:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
- That was at the end of part 1. Dirtdiver is talking about part 2 when Alpha Team is barricaded in the basement of the psychiatric hospital. He means the Syrian gunners below.
Spartan198 10:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Correct. and to the un-named question about their nationality think about it. their white (no racism intended), their wearing expensive body armor (who else). and they have heavily customized M4A1s. who else uses the M4A1? SAS maybe. besides didnt he yell out "big Gun" that would be in english. who speaks english??? Dirtdiver 6421 19:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
There's no guarantee they heard Mack, he was facing away from them, there was only a small opening in the door for sound to pass through, and maybe 30 feet of distance. And M4's are used by countries all over the world, 5 of which actually surround Syria. As far as the body armour bit goes, none of them are wearing any type of armour, just Blackhawk load bearing vests. $190US wouldn't be to much for most SF units. And about 500 million, to 1.8 billion people speak English. ;) Film and television often require what is called a suspension of disbelief, The Unit is no exception. The best option is just to go with it. --Crazycrankle 22:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
You answered for me. A great example of identity in an international incident would be in MW2 in the No Russian mission. Just because you see a bunch of white guys with M4s, M240s and speaking in English, you cry out "Americans". Of course that plot was stupid and I'll talk about it somewhere else, but the point is clear. In part 2 of Into Hell, they could have been anyone. The locals might have heard or saw something and maybe even recovered Jonas's M4 he left behind and the body of a couple American soldiers captured, but those are dead guys and they can say terrorists kidnapped them and brought them here, but they didn't capture anyone of the Unit alive so it doesn't matter if they spoke and even if they saw faces, nothing can really be proven because they are black ops and if the US government is questioned, they'd say they have no idea who they are talking about. Excalibur01 22:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
None of which explains the 50+ people locked up in the mosque. it was quite obvious they were american. as they not only spoke english, but they also asked were the americans were held. and i guess i know what you mean about the Vests. but still BlackHawk is still an American Company. M4A1s are STILL used by US-SOF. i guess however they werent wearing any American flags so thats one thing. i will admit that just like in Johnny B. Goode they left little to no trace. on that topic couldnt the slug in the translators head be led back to America? Dirtdiver 6421 23:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
They didn't shoot any translators in the head. Not to mention, any of the many countries the US sells M4's to likely receive ammunition to go with it. And it's not just Americans who rescue Americans. Israel, Jordan and Iraq are friends of the US, and they share borders with Syria. They could have done it, or it could have been Canada, Britain, or any number of countries. Not just friends either, enemies could use it to create more tension between mid-east countries and the US. Iran has plenty of white people, there has to be at least 5 who speak fluent English with an American accent. Same with North Korea. Neither of which would have issue killing a few people to cause the US more trouble. --Crazycrankle 01:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Noted. but im talking about Johnny B. Goode. in that episode their in IRAN. and Mack shoots the translator in the head. Dirtdiver 6421 01:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
- With a GI 1911, to boot. How common would .45 caliber be in that region? And FYI, SAS use the C8SFW, not the M4. Spartan198 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
- It's the same weapon and fires the same ammo, it's just called a different name. Like how the Canadians also use M4s and M16s, but it is called a different name and look just a BIT different. But as I said before, using the same guns, ammo and look the same doesn't matter to the special forces community because anyone who wants to, can get a hold of it. Do you know how many GIs must have died during WWII? Someone could have lost their 1911 on their way to Germany and it would have wounded up in Africa somehow. And how many common people know guns? The Iran police questions the people in the mosque about their weapons and most likely, they'd say "they got guns". You'd ask a common man in the US about what guns our troops use and they most likely don't know. In an international incident, eye witnesses can only prove so much. Excalibur01 15:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
i guess. but even if they didnt no the name the police who probably no little more weaponry than them. would likely ask. is it like an AK (which is the gun EVERYONE has.) or the kind americans use. and in Johnny B. Goode im not talking about the gun. but the ammunition itself. being Special Ops their likely to have high standard Ammunition. American made ammunition. Something any forensic team would have the brains to look at. Dirtdiver 6421 19:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
But we can still go with the whole "The US is saying they didnt send any spec ops guys to your country excuse. Excalibur01 01:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
true. although Into Hell (part 1 and 2) are some of my favorite episodes, i was truthfully very disappointed in the body count.i guess that makes it more realistic but i would have liked to see a bit more Action in it. Dirtdiver 6421 02:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone no if the weapon being used by Col. Tom Ryan in "Into Hell" is a Colt M933 or a HK416 it appears to be the same make as in Five Brother/Play 16 minus the vertical grip. Dirtdiver 6421 15:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm very sure it was a 10" HK416. Can't confirm it though, needed the hard drive space. --Crazycrankle 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
It's a 416. Watch the special features on the DVDs and you'll get a better view of it.--Lynx 21:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Every Step You Take
Hey guys, I was just watching The Unit Season 3 Episode 4 "Every Step You Take" and I noticed Bob passing a weapon to one of the American Embassy employees. I know that he passed his 1911 to the guy's wife and later on he passes a smaller pistol to the embassy employee. It looks like a Walther PPK but I'm not sure. Could someone help me identify it? I would upload a screencap but I'm not too sure how to. GunEnthusiast
I think it's a continuity error. The scene previously showed Bob handing over his SIG to the man, but in the next scene, it turns into what looks like a PPK Excalibur01 03:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Unknown S&W pistol
Anyone know what model pistol this is? It appears to have a 3.5 inch barrel, squared trigger guard, external safety, and an external hammer (the hammer isn't very visible in the screencaps, as it's only seen on screen for moment).
--Lynx 03:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Which episode is this? Excalibur01 05:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC) This episode is "Hero" and is from Season 4. --Ben41 05:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Whiplash
I noticed that in "Hero" Sam's first episode that he has some sort of SIG (possibly a 229) just before he pulls out the flashbang grenade in the opening scene. Can anyone confirm this for me or add some screenshots ??
Makarov "Kirovsky?"
In "Endgame", Bob refers to the Makarov he finds as a "Kirovsky." Is this an actual name/nickname for the Makarov (or the Gyurza) or is it simply TV talk?--Lynx 03:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
ID weapons and episodes
Trying to figure what episodes these screenshots are from:
The gun above must be a tokarev tt-33. Most probably the chinese copy Norinco Type 54 / Model 213. I base this off the fact that there are no soviet ones in chrome/stainless. Or possibly the Zastava M57 witch can be obtained in dualtone with silver slide.
Also, does anyone know what type of rifle this is? It was seen in "The Wall", and it appeared to be an automatic weapon.
Need ID on the handgun Hector uses in "The Wall"
I think the first is from the end of "The Conduit". The second is from Season 2's "Extreme Rendition". The third and forth pictures almost look like a Hi Point carbine (converted to full auto, or perhaps the sound editor simply used the sound effects of a full auto weapon), while the last picture looks like it might be the Colt Compact M1991A1 that Kim uses.--Lynx 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I would have to say your right in the first 2. Mack uses the Walther in the Conduit that was before he suppressed it. the 2nd was from Extreme Rendition when the EX-operator "escaped" Hector planted the bag there with the handgun in there. im not sure about the 3rd picture but im positive the 4th is from the episode "the Wall" i believe it might be Bob's sidearm as Mack had the walther. Dirtdiver 6421 16:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Walther ID episode
While Mack did use the Walther in "The Conduit", this particular screenshot is not from "The Conduit" because the episode aired after this shot was uploaded. Any other guesses?
I've seen every single episode from the Unit, minus Paradise Lost. id like to think id remember when he used that weapon as every other episode he uses the Colt 1911 and a Glock (in Security). he used the Walther in Conduit and the Wall. is it possible it happened in Paradise Lost? Dirtdiver 6421 13:20, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- That's not Mack's hand, try looking for someone else holding a Walther. --Crazycrankle 14:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)