The Teeth Grinder variant of the trench knife is based on Cole knuckle knifes. Butcher also carries the same model, though depicted without a knuckle.
Claymore
The Claymore is based on medieval Scottish two-handed claymore swords.
Gebirgsjäger Pickaxe
The Ice Pick is based on WW2 period German Gebirgsjäger pickaxes.
Mark I Trench Knife
The Trench Knife is based on the US Mark I Trench Knife, though the Call of Duty WWII: Field Manual book erroneously states that it is a BC-41 Trench Knife.
M-1943 Entrenching Tool
The US Shovel is based on the M-1943 Entrenching Tool.
Discussion
Debut Trailer
Going to place the shots from the trailer here for now. There was a few more shown but I couldn't screencap them due to how fast they went by. --SeanWolf (talk) 13:53, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
So it looks like Call of Duty 2: Big Red One is getting a remaster eh? Actually, this looks awesome. There's also the M1918A2 BAR and Gewehr 43.--AgentGumby (talk) 14:27, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
I don't recall seeing the BAR in the trailer, but I did see the Gewehr 43 (Just couldn't get a shot of it).--SeanWolf (talk) 14:29, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
Actually, I watched the Wehrmacht soldier getting shot again at .25 speed and the rifle he's carrying actually has some non-G43 characteristics- namely, it has some sort of muzzle device (and gas tube) that looks similar to the SVT-40 muzzle brake or gas trap endcap on the G41(W), although it looks rather small to be the latter. I think it may actually be a SVT-40 too, as it doesn't look like it has the upward-facing charging handle of the G41/G43 as the German spins the rifle around as he drops it. The magazine also looks pretty long and curved, like the SVT's. Of course it's weird for an SVT to be seen on the Western front, but it may mean that there might just be a Russian campaign too (or at least Russian guns in the multiplayer, most likely).--AgentGumby (talk) 15:17, 26 April 2017 (EDT)
Just to note, I've updated the images above to high-res screencaps, and renamed most of them appropriately to match other CoD images (should be separated by hyphens and the like). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:40, 27 April 2017 (EDT)
The guns I was able to Identify goes as follows: MG-42, M1 Garand, (With and without bayonet) Possible MG-34, M3 Grease Gun (with detachable OSS suppressor) M2 Flamethrower, STG 44, M1 Carbine, Lewis Gun (Possible) M1897 Trenchgun (Is chamberloaded with a dragon's breath round) MP40, Karabiner 98K, Springfield M1903A1 with a 7.8x Unerti scope, an Aircraft Lewis gun is seen in the hands of a British soldier in the tank sequence, (?!) The tank gunner mans a Browning M1919A4, and last, but not least, A U.S. soldier draws akimbo M1911A1s in the last shot of the trailer. --50AEDeagle (talk) 12:32, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
I'm glad to see gore will be a thing again, something lacking from Battlefield 1.--AgentGumby (talk) 15:48, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
That drum-fed Machinegun is confirmed as the MG15, a bipod can be used when a player is prone. (Possibly on a ledge too?) The Thompson M1928 is confirmed, (Also able to attach a suppressor) BAR is confirmed, Panzerschreck is confirmed, and everybody's favorite Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer is confirmed as a usable sidearm. --50AEDeagle (talk)
For the record, were Dragon's Breath rounds even a thing in WW2? Also, it's called an M1928, but it seems to actually be an M1A1. Furthermore, for some reason, the (impossible) drum magazine holds only 45 rounds, instead of 50. There is also the ability to place mounted MG42s, which, for some reason, hold an infinite amount of rounds in the 50-round belt drum, and cause inconsistent levels of screen shake. Also, isn't the MG15 supposed to fire faster than that (and, for that matter, supposed to be a vehicle-only weapon, lacking even a stock)? The MG on the tank seems to be an M1919 with infinite ammo and an exceptionally slow fire rate. S-Mines are confirmed, referred to as "Bouncing Betties. Still, it is only an early alpha, so here's hoping that they fix some of these issues prior to the game's release. See ya, Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 21:12, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
Pretty sure this 45-round capacity is due to the extended mag's arbitrary 50% increase from the base 30-round magazine. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:28, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
I think that's a Nydar reflex sight mounted on the BAR. It'll be kinda dumb if they shoehorn rail attachments into everything.Temp89 (talk)
I don't think adherence to historical reality is something that's an ironclad rule in the AAA videogame industry, otherwise they wouldn't have every other soldier be a female.--Aidoru (talk) 20:47, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
Multiplayer gameplay shows that the Winchester 1897 trench gun is somehow able to hold 9+1 rounds. Also, equipping the Kar98k with the "extended mags" option gives it what appears to be a 20-round detachable trench mag, yet only increases the capacity to 7 rounds. --SpectralNova (talk) 08:34, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
So what number is this?
Is it the 578,978,671st or 578,978,672nd WWII FPS? Spartan198 (talk) 06:19, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
It's the googolplexth one, mate. On a more serious note, there's a magazine-fed shotgun in the selection menu, referred "Toggle Action"; what weapon is it, exactly? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 08:06, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
Where, pray tell, is this weapon list? I've found a few toggle-locked shotguns (one of which, designed by Walther, actually made it into production), but they're all tube-fed. I would like to get a look at this thing, whatever it is. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
Here at 0:21. The magazine seems too small for shotgun shells, so I don't know what they slapped here, maybe a rifle erroneously assigned as a shotgun due to early testing or something? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:08, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
I just googled "toggle action shotgun" and this came up, I think it is the Walther design that Pyro mentioned, that actually dates back to the end of WWI. I assume the magazine is just something Sledgehammer shoved in there, the receiver design is identical.--AgentGumby (talk) 18:28, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
Having a look at the weapon design, the magazine seems to be lifted off of another obscure Walther design, the A115. Maybe they're just being dumb, or maybe they're trying to make some sort of secretive Zombies joke/reference. Who honestly knows. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 20:49, 14 June 2017 (EDT)
MP44k
So in the trailer, many of us have noticed the shortened version of the MP44. This actually does exist in real life, but no one knows whether it was a rejected last ditch weapon, or a home made weapon. Forgotten Weapons has featured this, but with little information.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/guns-that-should-have-been/
I remember reading on another forum how it's actually an MKB42h that has been shortened down.
The truly ironic thing here is the vague resemblance to the MP5, since the MP5 and STG44 are related. The MP5 coming from the G3, which in turn came from the CETME rifle which was modified from the Mauser STG 45 last ditch assault rifle.
If anyone has more information though, please share. That'd be lovely. Aimigen7 (talk) 16:30, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
There was no shortened version of the MP44 actually made during the war as far as I know. The one you linked to above is a modern built custom gun, as stated in the description on the page. There are also some images of an MP44 with a full length barrel with an MP40 stock, however I believe these are photoshops. On obvious reason that these didn't exist is that the MP44 has a long recoil spring that goes all the way into the stock. The custom gun you linked to gets around this by having a new spring inside the gas piston tube above the barrel. The reason that the German's went with the long spring was that they couldn;t make a short spring work due to poor quality steel, and this only got worse towards the end of the war so can't imagine any last ditch weapons would be able to be built like this. The last ditch equivalent to the MP44 was sort of the Gustloff VG1-5. --commando552 (talk) 18:23, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
Ah, so I'm guessing Sledgehammer saw the page and was like "Maybe we could include this in the game." Even though they also claim historical accuracy. But we all know when it comes to WW2 games, Historical Accuracy is just a marketing word. Aimigen7 (talk) 18:35, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
Sledgehammer's logic: It looks like something from WWII, so it probably is. Let's put it in the game--But only if it looks cool. And it also has to make cool "bang bang" noises when you pull the trigger. It's even better if it has a name that sounds old. --SpectralNova (talk) 19:04, 15 June 2017 (EDT)
On another note, I saw shortened MP-44s in many old Soviet films. Do not ask how, but it somehow worked. -Slon95 (talk) 19:45, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
For MP Allied & German sides. Doesn't show Russian or mounted.Temp89 (talk)
A couple of things to note here: the Winchester's extended magazine raises the capacity to 10 rounds (not 9+1 as previously stated, because even though the future is now, you still load all of the shells, then work the action on an empty reload), the Walther shotgun's magazine is actually a drum, and the reload animation has the player character lock back the bolt, replace the drum, then press on the back of the drum as if it were a bolt release to drop it, the M1911's extended magazine is hilariously long, I'm not sure if M712 mags drop free, the BAR is treated as closed-bolt (is anybody really surprised), the Thompson is never cocked, but Thompsons don't lock open on drums (and that's ignoring how drums don't even go in M1A1s), and that's pretty much the long and short of it. Did anybody notice anything else that they'd like to mention here? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
The magical Springfield M1903 that have scopes and allow feeding with stripper clips. --Funkychinaman (talk) 12:55, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
The K 98K uses detachable magazines instead of stripper clips.- Phillb36 (talk) 15:54, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
I think that's just because it has an "extended magazine" attachment.--AgentGumby (talk) 16:44, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
Snakes have started manifesting in my house after watching that video, oh my god. We have iron sights being sacrificed to the great god Nydar, drum mags that barely extend the magazine, soldiers that can somehow control stockless machine guns firing at 1000 RPM, the mystery Walther shotgun and more. I am really expecting this game to bomb now, because this is a new level of bad. --PaperCake 13:24, 16 June 2017 (EST)
Say what you will about Infinite Warfare, but you can have all the crazy-ass weapons you want in the distant future. A red-dot on a BAR? The extended mag K98k? Lewis guns? WTF? --Funkychinaman (talk) 16:55, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
After numerous updates we will get a Kolibri with drum magazine and a time-traveling man-portable M61 Vulcan with six detachable suppressors from supply drops. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
The combination of an Aircraft Lewis Gun with a stock is not as incorrect for WW2 as you might initially think. A large number of Aircraft guns fitted with stocks were issued to the Home Guard as AA weapons, and Aircraft guns were also still quite widely used in the desert. The reason for the shift over to Aircraft guns rather than the shrouded Ground guns was due to the fact that by WW2 they has decided that the shroud did not actually make any real impact on the performance of the gun and that it could function fine without it. I am still sceptical that you would ever see them in post D-Day Europe though, but I assume the reason they made the odd lewis choice is that it is one of the few single crew portable Allied MGs that has a capacity significantly greater than the BAR. I would almost be happier if they just used a Bren with those rare (but still real, just not in the ground role) 100 round drum mags. --commando552 (talk) 13:37, 2 July 2017 (EDT)
I have a burning desire to use that "Aliens" History Channel meme image right now. --HashiriyaR32 (talk) 22:16, 16 June 2017 (EDT)
PPS-43?
We sure this is a PPS-43? Looks more like a PPSh-41 due to how the one hand is angled. Granted it is a far away shot but it does look more like the PPSh-41 then what's listed on the page.--SeanWolf (talk) 12:20, 26 July 2017 (EDT)
I'm tempted to agree with you here, Sean. Not only does the character hold the thing correctly for a PPSh (with no sign of clipping that would arise from using PPSh animations for a PPS), but I think that I can just barely make out a bit of wood above the user's right hand, which would give it away as a PPSh. Also, on a sidenote, any idea what the guy to his right is holding? Given the proportions of what seems to be a pan magazine on top of it, I'm tempted to say it's a DP-28, but the rest of the gun is giving me second thoughts. Any ideas?
I think that is the DP-28 after comparing that to an actual DP-28.--SeanWolf (talk) 14:30, 26 July 2017 (EDT)
My guess would be that it is that weird hybrid Lewis Gun. From the screenshots in the Lewis section I can't tell if it has a bipod like this gun, but if you look at the 2nd image in the "Unknown LMG" section that gun is actually Lewis and you can see that it has the bipod as well. For some reason this gun appears to be a mirror image though, showing the right side of the receiver on the left side. On the topic of this section, I think that the picture looking down the sights is of an MG15 feeding from a single drum, which just leaves that weird MG that has that snail drum or whatever that is. There was a brass catcher for the Lewis that looked a tiny bit like this "drum", but the rest of the gun looks off so I doubt it is that. --commando552 (talk) 16:06, 26 July 2017 (EDT)
M712
Looking at the model, the gun in-game isn't an M712. It clearly lacks the fire selector. Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 15:52, 2 August 2017 (EDT)
MP28, PPSh, and Type 100.
Pardon me for asking, Ultimate94ninja, but where exactly are you getting this information about these SMGs being in the game? Also, since we're here, let's start a weapon wish-list for this game. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 14:41, 19 August 2017 (EDT)
There were some recent gameplay videos that showed the Type 100. It seems a little late for a weapon wishlist, don'tya think?--AgentGumby (talk) 18:32, 19 August 2017 (EDT)
There's been a recent GameInformer video confirming these three weapons. We didn't see actual gameplay of the MP28 (provided that it is actually one), but its pickup icon was shown, and it was referred to as "Waffe 28", for some reason (maybe due to copyright naming or something). As for a wishlist, well, some new CoD weapons are still popping up in gameplay videos of the game (not to mention the likeliness of additional DLC weapons - probably not form supply drops seeing as SHG confirmed these will only contain cosmetic content... for now), so why not? Let's see: the German pilots' Luftwaffe Drilling would be a pretty fun idea. The MG13 would have made more sense than the MG15 (was the latter even usable as an infantry weapon? Pretty sure it was only for aircraft and the like). I'd also like to see the M1917 revolver, Browning Auto-5 and AVS-36. The Fedorov Avtomat was used less than during WWI, and the M2 Carbine didn't see much use before the end of WWII, but... *coughs at BF1*. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 09:36, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
It's not even known exactly, used whether Födorov in WW2 actually. But there is information that the Tokarev M1927 was in limited use at the early stage of the war. --Slon95 (talk) 10:14, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
Would be funny to see the Spasov M1944 Trigun btw. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:32, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
Well, for starters, it'd make sense for them to have an MP28, considering its presence in IW as the "Trencher". Regarding the MG15, it seems to have a stock attached, and I've seen images of ones set up like this (with a stock and bipod), but I can't imagine 75 rounds of 7.92 at 1,000 RPM to be the most practical thing. Given the other MGs included in the early build, it seems like they were trying to stay away from belt-fed guns, possibly because they haven't gotten that code worked out yet. And, as for the concept of a weapon wish-list, the game's still a fair few months away from release, so maybe they'll take some feedback and do things better at the actual launch. Not likely, but maybe. Now, the wish-list (ignoring the obvious, and changes to existing things, instead focusing on more obscure/odd things): a Maxim-Tokarev, a DT-29, a Type 89 "Knee Mortar" (either as some sort of kill/score-streak, or just as a way of saying, "to hell with balance"), some Italian equipment (Carcanos (inb4 they add the Tromboncino), Beretta M1934s and 38s, maybe 1918s, FNAB-43s, maybe Armaguerra M39s, Breda M30s, etc.) some Finnish stuff (possibly M39 Mosins, Lahti L35s, Suomi KP-31s, LS-26s, and maybe emplaced L-39s (or, knowing CoD, portable ones that you can run around and quickscope people with)), faction-based flamethrowers (e.g. instead of an M2, the Germans get a Flammenwerfer M35, the Japanese get a Type 100, etc.) plenty of French stuff (MAS 36s and (possibly 7.5mm converted) Berthiers, MAS 38s, MP35s, M1935 pistols (and perhaps some other elements of their veritable handgun salad), Chatellerault 24/29s, possibly Reibel MGs, etc.) a ZH-29, some Volkssturm stuff (VMG 27s, VStG 1-5s, etc.) and whatever other odd things that I can think of that definitely won't make it into the game. Maybe they'll even add one of those open-bolt Breda PG rifles that could fire in 4-round bursts. Well, regardless, I'm curious to see how this game turns out. See ya. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 13:01, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
From what I've seen, the flamethrower killstreak is faction-appropriate in-game; the Americans get the M2 while the Germans get the F35. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:12, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
Having seen some of the other footage, I also noticed some gameplay with that one machine gun with a single side-mounted drum, which also seems to have standard CoD MG sights (that is, the actual slider is removed, leaving you looking through the empty sight leaf), the pickup icon of the M1941 Johnson, the M1 Carbine (still called the M1A1), some un-IDed AA guns firing in the end screen of the German win in the WAR mode, and some MGs on the Ball Gunner Turret streak (which I think are aircraft M2s, but I'm not sure). And yeah, the Germans do get the Flammenwerfer. Closing thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 15:38, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
I noticed something about the PPSh in the video. It seemed to have the magwell of a PPS-43. Was that possible in real life? Aimigen7 (talk) 18:44, 20 August 2017 (EDT)
Hahaha my first wish came true, the M30 Drilling is now revealed to be in the game. For some reason, the scoped Lee-Enfield (No.4, I presume) is referred to as "Commonwealth". There's also the semi-auto "Karabin", which I'm pretty sure is a Polish Kbsp wz. 1938M (fitted with a scope). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2017 (EDT)
For the record, would you mind giving some sources/videos where these new weapons can be seen? I'm pretty curious to see the Karabin. Also, yeah, I don't get the whole "Commonwealth" thing. I mean, it's not that hard to call it the "Lee-Enfield" or something like that, and it might get confusing if you're fighting for the British Commonwealth with a Commonwealth. And as for the Drilling, it seems to be treated as a standard double-barreled shotgun (a la World at War), with the 3rd barrel unused, but this might change (and it'd be really cool if it did; I just envision using whatever button you'd normally use to switch to an M203 or something to instead change your 2-shot shotgun into a 1-shot (and 1-shot-kill) rifle). Well, we can only hope that they do a good job with this game. And on a sidenote, does anybody else find it odd that the No. 69 grenade is treated as a flashbang in-game? I mean, I get that being a CoD game, it kinda needs something of the sort, but still. It's odd. Well, see ya. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:55, 22 August 2017 (EDT) P.S.: I'm pretty sure it'd be an anachronism (I couldn't find a date of design for them online), but I'd almost want to see a Schermuly Training Grenade be the game's flashbang, and instead make the No. 69 a proper impact grenade. Almost.
I was working on the screencaps as you were typing this ;) I've added them to the page. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:21, 22 August 2017 (EDT)
Oh dear, the Kbsp wz. 38M is depicted with a detachable mag in-game. --HashiriyaR32 (talk) 07:01, 24 August 2017 (EDT)
So the Drilling is treated as a double-barrel shotgun.......unless you take "Rifle Bullets" as an attachment, which will then give you the option to load and use that third barrel, turning the weapon into a single-shot rifle that can one-hit from torso up with no damage dropoff, like a sniper rifle. --HashiriyaR32 (talk) 18:56, 31 August 2017 (EDT)
PPSh-41 with PPS-43 magwell
So I noticed something in footages involving the PPSh-41. It seemed to have the magwell of a PPS-43. Was that possible in real life? Obviously no standard issue PPSh's had that kind of magwell, but would it theoretically be possible to do such to a PPSh? Aimigen7 (talk) 22:23, 22 August 2017 (EDT)
Update: I've confirmed it uses a PPS-43 magwell, even with the drum mag variant, which has the drum clip through the magwell. Hopefully this is just due to the fact the game is unfinished, and will be ammended in the end. Aimigen7 (talk) 20:22, 25 August 2017 (EDT)
A quick note or two
Firstly, the suppressor on the Thompson and the PPSh-41 is apparently the Maxim silencer, while the one on the MP40 and the Type 100 is based on something like that of the Luger P08. Either way, it's in your dreams that such suppressors would fit on these weapons.
Secondly, regarding the M1941 Johnson: the real one has a 20-round magazine, but I've read that "additional five rounds could be loaded into the receiver making the total capacity of the weapon 25 rounds". I guess that would explain the in-game 25-round capacity (I've got to say, though, the in-game model shows a straight magazine rather than a curved one). Also, as I've stated in the page, it's incorrectly assigned as a rifle rather than an LMG. Now either they confused it with the M1941 Johnson rifle (lol) or, amusingly, could have been intended to pass for the M1947 Johnson auto carbine (look here and here), which looks pretty much the same as the LMG, but is semi-auto and would be anachronistic as it was designed in 1946 (and out of place anyway since this prototype was very rare).
Well, from what I've seen, the Johnson only gets the proper magazine model with Extended Mags, which raises the capacity to 37. It's hardly the most ridiculous of the upgraded magazines, however. Not including the ones already mentioned, the P08 gets a 32-round Trommelmagazin 08 with a 12-round capacity with Extended Mags, while the MP28 gets the same model, but with a 48-round capacity (amusingly enough, it already held 32 rounds), the MG15 starts out with half of its magazine (i.e. one drum instead of 2), which gives it a 50-round capacity, while Extended Mags raises that to 75, and gives it both drums (in defiance of simple logic, as this would imply that one drum holds 50 rounds, and then another one that's exactly the same size holds 25), and the Bren gets the MG15's default half-saddle-drum with Extended Mags, which raises the capacity to 45 rounds. *Sigh*... It's like they're trying to screw with us. Well, anyways, look below, for my response to the question that you actually asked for an answer to. See you in literally less than 2 seconds, Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 10:03, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
They made the extended mag attachment give 50% more capacity regardless of how much ammo that mag could actually hold, so this is why we're seeing nonsense like the 20-round trench mag for the Kar98k only holding 7 rounds, for example. As if the mag being depicted as detachable wasn't already enough. --HashiriyaR32 (talk) 10:19, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
Also, regarding the Mauser, is it really appropriate to list is as a C96? Granted, the presence or absence of a fire selector is an important feature, but due to the detachable box magazine I feel we should actually list is as an M712, just with the selector missing. I mean, it's not like CoD has ever been accurate in terms of fire selectors (bar MW Remastered). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:14, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
Well firstly, I initially listed it as that because I had only seen in-game footage, and the only way to see the right side was during the inspection animation, wherein the character held their index finger exactly over the mag release, so I wasn't sure whether or not it was there, and I assumed it wasn't, given the lack of a fire selector. Now, seeing as it has one of the 2 main identifying features of the M712, thus putting the ID somewhere in-between, I'm not really sure what to call it. Any ideas? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 10:03, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
So we keep it as a C96? (in that case, were there conversions that allowed full-auto fire on a C96?) I've got to say (if we list it as such), the in-game model lacks the rectangular milled panel above the pistol grip, similarly to this early C96 prototype. On a side note, that also means we'll have to change the Mauser section on The Order: 1886 page to C96. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 07:29, 4 October 2017 (EDT)
Well that prototype doesn't lack it, it's just extended forward right up to the magazine, some of the Astra clones lack it though (eg Astra 900). The slab-sided lower is more typical of the Italian Regia Marina version, though obviously it has the wider magwell of a detachable magazine variant, so we're talking frankengun. Looking at this image, the one in The Order seems to have the fire selector switch from an Astra 903 on the concept art. In-game model instead got a mag release that's missing on the concept art, but we don't have a shot of the left side so I can't say if it has an M712 fire selector there. EDIT found one, no selector, is a C96. Evil Tim (talk) 07:41, 4 October 2017 (EDT)
Weapon ideas from Battlefield 1
I get for multiplayer, there needs to be weapon variety and gamers these days are spoiled for choices, but this is a WWII game. I remember back in the day you don't get any extra stuff. I do hope in the single player, they don't put reflex sights on all the rifles you pick up. The past COD games of WWII were as authentic as you can get. Excalibur01 (talk) 10:20, 21 September 2017 (EDT)
Methinks you hit the nail on the head with that Battlefield 1 comparison. I feel like a lot of the, uh, artistic licence taken with the guns in this game is because Battlefield 1 wasn't 100% accurate with weapons either. And COD WWII clearly wants to be Battlefield 1. Of course, while Battlefield 1 did take some extensive liberties (I'm fairly sure that no Kolibri pistols were shipped to the front lines), they were subtle and thematically made sense; sure the Huot was never used in WWI, but it doesn't look out of place being there. COD WWII meanwhile is like "Eh, slap that removable magazine on that fixed internal magazine rifle, I'm sure no-one will notice". Part of me wonders if they'll add the AK in as well. "Well it was developed in 1947, so that's close enough, right?" --Gunmaster2011 (talk) 20:35, 7 October 2017 (EDT)
Well, Activision/Treyarch aren't that stupid, but I would totally bet that the STG-44 will the the equivalent of the AK-47 - considering they have a "customized" kurtz STG-44 that basically is COD's way of sneaking in their favorite AKSU. -SeptemberJack (talk) 20:51, 7 October 2017 (EDT)
Please help ID this revolver
Here. Be warned that this video contains spoilers, so watch it at your own risk (I think it's the only part of the game where this weapon is seen). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 16:42, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
I'm not entirely sure (or maybe I just don't want to be), but that may or may not be a Webley Mk. VI with a swing-out cylinder. I mean, I get that that's not the point of the cutscene, but come on. They could've just used the standard M1911A1 or something. In other news, this should be helpful. Cheers, Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:00, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
It is an Enfield No. 2, the British Government knock-off of the Webley rather than actually a Webley. I have no idea why they would give it a swing out cylinder though, I assume it was just total ignorance on the part of the animators just assuming that all revolver have a swing out cylinder. --commando552 (talk) 17:10, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
I think they should have used the Colt M1917 instead because it was the service revolver of the US Army during WWII. --MJ79 (talk) 13:49, 9 November 2017 (EST)
Anyway, what a mysterious Tommy Gun there? --Slon95 (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Yeah, that Thompson looked odd. It had a drum magazine and a foregrip, with a completely smooth, thin-profile barrel, and a firing sound like a rather anemic popgun. Anyways, back to the revolver, there are a couple more oddities: it fires a total of 7 rounds before reloading (2 in the suspiciously clean, evil-looking, and slow-to-act German tank commander, then 5 before reloading), it doesn't seem to have an animated hammer or cylinder, and it is reloaded by swinging out the cylinder, which causes 1 spent casing to fall out automatically, then reloaded by bringing it off of the screen for a bit. There's also the fact that the Germans are missing like Stormtroopers from, what, 30 feet away? And that's not even getting started on the weapon animation video (which you guys should really check out - some of the stuff, like the SVT-40 reload, has to be seen to be believed), or on some other parts of the scene. Anyways, that's all for now. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:49, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Yep, at first when you get rid of that German guy and continue to fire, you shoot more than 6 rounds in total, but when you reload and continue after this, you get the correct capacity (and yeah, why is only ONE round ejected when reloading?). Also wow, MAR is damn fast with uploading his slow-mo videos, though even before it I noticed that the FG 42's charging handle doesn't even move back when you pull it, and that the sawed-off double-barreled shotgun is apparently depicted with an automatic shell ejector. Need I say more? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:16, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Well, U94N, I think that the reason that the charging handle doesn't move when you pull it is because that's not the charging handle, that's the case deflector. The actual charging handle is even part of the model and everything, it just isn't actually used. *Sigh*... Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 20:32, 5 November 2017 (EST)
I have only watched the video and not played the game at all, but what is wrong with the sawn off shotgun ejecting? Shotguns can have either ejectors or extractors, in fact based on the fact that the ejector/extractor in question is split down the middle I think that this means that it probably has ejectors (comapre this image, the left gun has ejectors and the right just extractors). --commando552 (talk) 18:41, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Ah... I saw this and thought that such side-by-side shotguns weren't supposed to have this. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 19:17, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Not to mention that all of the shotguns have the correct brass-cased shells, except for the sawn-off shotgun, which ejects enormous plastic-cased ones instead. At some point, when all is said and done, I might just compile a list of everything wrong with the guns in this game, just to see how long it is. EDIT: Here's another good resource. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 19:25, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
Btw I should have mentioned this a while ago, but in regards to the FG 42, turns out the charging handle is actually used. With the underhand technique (which is out of place since I believe it was first used by the Spetsnaz on the AK rifles), the player character releases the handle that is locked back on an empty reload (yeah, it's hard to see unless you check in slow motion; it is in fact depicted as closed bolt, which is only correct when used in semi-auto). Fun fact: on a non-empty reload, the bolt is locked back as well, even though it isn't when you're inspecting the weapon. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:13, 3 February 2018 (EST)
Aaaaaaand all the bolt-action rifles get a detachable magazine in-game with the extended mag attachment (EDIT: forgot that the real Lee-Enfield does use detachable mags). So does the M1 Garand, but here I got a question, did the conversion allowing the standard M1 to use a 20-round BAR mag exist during WWII? (This states that at least the Springfield T20E2 was in 1945) --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 10:16, 4 November 2017 (EDT)
The T20 was tested towards the end of 1944, used detachable BAR magazine and fired semi from a closed bolt and FA from an open bolt. The later ones like the E2 had an improved mag and couldn't feed from BAR mags (although the T20E2 mags could go in a BAR which didn't make all that much sense as the idea was that the T20E2 would replace the BAR as well as the M1) and fired from a closed bolt in FA. There were also differences with the flash hiders and whether or not the rifles can take bayonets and grenade launchers. It is all kind of academic though, as these were purely experimental weapons that were never adopted or deployed so have no real business showing up in this game. --commando552 (talk) 17:13, 4 November 2017 (EDT)
Makes sense; either way, the M1's depicted extended mag doesn't exactly match the magazine of the BAR nor the T20E2. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 06:31, 5 November 2017 (EST)
If they were going to do that stripper clip bullshit, then they might as well have let you reload the Lee-Enfield by swapping out its detachable standard 10-round mag. --HashiriyaR32 (talk) 10:45, 4 November 2017 (EDT)
As I recall that's already been in a CoD game, I think it was Finest Hour. Evil Tim (talk) 11:18, 6 November 2017 (EST)
Yeah, it's indeed in Finest Hour. Btw I'm still baffled that despite the extended mags of the Lewis gun and the Bren holding correctly 97 rounds and 100 rounds respectively, they have those side drum abominations rather than the appropriate pan magazines (WTF were the SHG dudes smoking when they created that weird mag extension for the Lewis?) --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:34, 6 November 2017 (EST)
At a guess they probably saw a picture of a Lewis with a brass catcher like this and completely failed to realise what they were looking at. Evil Tim (talk) 18:54, 6 November 2017 (EST)
Actually, looking at it, I think that it might just be the most bizarre use of the Trommelmagazin 08 yet. Granted, the proportions are changed, and it's modified to fit onto the Lewis's magazine pivot, but it from what I can tell (which isn't much, as the weapon's first-person animations seem hell-bent on preventing you from getting a good look at it), it seems that the Lewis's 97-round pan mag is a giant TM08. Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2017 (EST)
Completely out of left field here, but I think that the Jupiter variant of the M1911 might actually be a Colt M1903, given its appearance. Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 12:58, 4 November 2017 (EDT)
Seems a hell of a lot more like a 1911 with the thumb safety removed and a rounded hammer added, but I see how you'd think it's a 1903. Black Irish Paddy (talk) 17:45, 7 November 2017 (EST)
I was more talking about the muzzle end, with no barrel bushing and the distinctive holes in the front of the slide beneath the barrel. Then again, the modified 1911 idea is also possible. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 19:03, 7 November 2017 (EST)
It isn't really anything real, but to me it looks like a M1902 Sporter slide mashed together with a M1911 machine pistol frame. --commando552 (talk) 19:22, 7 November 2017 (EST)
Some of the variants almost look like completely different weapons, such as the "Thrive" PPSh-41 variant (lol). --MJ79 (talk) 21:39, 6 November 2017 (EST)
Some other stuff to note: The M1 Garand "Rookie" skin gives it a ridiculously short barrel and the pistol grip from a Beretta BM-59 Alpine, albeit without the accompanying collapsible stock; the "Shack Man" SVT-40 makes it look like an AG42B Ljungman with a short barrel and metal heat shield; the aforementioned "Thrive" PPSh has an SVT-40's barrel shroud/heat shield; the "Jupiter" M1911, while reminiscent of an M1911 machine pistol conversion, actually looks more like a Colt M1903 at its core (note the distinctive end of the slide, compared to the 1911's); the "Heimat" C96 has a shortened barrel, but not quite like that of a Bolo, especially considering the standard grips; the "Roundabout" Lee-Enfield somehow has unchanged stats despite basically being turned into an Obrez; I know for a fact that I've seen the "Revised" FG42 or something like it somewhere, but I can't place it; same goes for the "Candy" M3 Grease Gun (I might update this list later); the "Shorty" MG15 has no stock, a shortened barrel, sights that are backwards to their normal arrangement, and part of the barrel shroud from a Maxim LMG08 Zeppelin Gun; the "Jawbreaker" M1941 Johnson gets the 2-tube stock from becomes an M1944; the "Bite The Dust" M1 Carbine gets the correct M1A1 folding stock, along with an inexplicable long barrel and handguard; the "Zipper" MG42 looks more like an MG34; the "Midnight" wz. 38M looks uncannily like a MAS-44; the "Wunderwaffe" MP40 is a stylized/modified MP41; the "Checked Out" Type 100 gets the barrel shroud from an MP35; the "Ranger" M1903 Springfield turns it into an M1903A4, albeit with a fictional 2-piece C-stock; and lastly but not leastly, the "Enigma" Toggle Action has a forend conspicuously similar to the "Muramasa" from RE:Revelations. Anything else that we should note on the main page? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 22:35, 6 November 2017 (EST) P.S.: God damn, I need to write less. Seriously, when all is said and done, this is going to come out to, like, 2,000 characters. I need help.
Good catch Slon, I hadn't noticed the forward cocking serrations. Frankly, it looks like they've turned the M1911 into a near-perfect M1902 Sporter, apart from the slide release, and added a foregrip and stock. What entirely escapes me, however, is why. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 16:29, 8 November 2017 (EST)
Maybe the modeler was inspired by the pistols that Samuel L. Jackson carried in the recent Kong movie?--AgentGumby (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2017 (EST)
If we're talking movie guns here, the ones from 100 Rifles or possibly Winter's Tale (if either, then more likely the latter, considering the engravings) could have served as an influence. Really, though, I don't think we'll ever quite understand the thought process that goes into designing the weapons for CoD games... Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 20:34, 8 November 2017 (EST)
Well, shit. It seems that this is going to be far more complicated than we thought. It turns out that there are multiple different variants of each weapon that can change their ID to the same thing (e.g. multiple PPSh variants change it into a PPS, multiple M1 Carbine variants change it into an M1A1, etc.), including a few we've missed, like an M1897 variant that turns it into a Model 1912, an MG15 variant that turns it into an ST61 (basically the same gun, but with a different carry handle and a water-cooled barrel), a Bren variant that apparently turns it into a Type 99, an M1903 variant that supposedly turns it into a Winchester Model 70, and perhaps most confoundingly, an M1911 variant that turns it into, drum roll please, a Steyr M1912. Of course, thesis subject to updates, so we may spend the rest of our lives sorting out all the different ID-changing weapon variants in this game. See ya, Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 10:33, 19 November 2017 (EST)
The Sten, Gewehr and a new LMG are now confirmed DLC weapons for the Winter Siege update. --MJ79 (talk) 09:58, 7 December 2017 (EST)
I think that the LMG is a Breda Modello 30. In game it seems like that call it the "GPMG" which it absolutely isn't, feeding from a fixed 20 round mag topped up by weird sort of stripper clips. --commando552 (talk) 11:21, 7 December 2017 (EST)
It was more of an NPMG, really. Evil Tim (talk) 13:44, 7 December 2017 (EST)
Lol good one. Given the winter theme, I think a more fitting set of weapons would be the ones used during the Winter War (e.g. old favorites such as the Mosin-Nagant and DP-28, and possibly new stuff like the Finnish KP/-31 or LS-26). Still, I welcome the Gewehr and Sten into the arsenal (which should have been there in the first place). --MJ79 (talk) 14:45, 7 December 2017 (EST)
Question, is there a Variant similar to this weapon?
File:Kalashnikov SMG.jpgExperimental Kalashnikov submachine gun from 1942, sometimes rather misleadingly dubbed the "AK42" - 7.62x25mm Tokarev
What would the AK42 be a variant of, the PPSh? Evil Tim (talk) 17:06, 4 December 2017 (EST)
This is experimental SMG, one of the first designs by Kalashnikov, chambered in 7.62x25, and it has nothing in common with AK. Please don't call it AK42, this is completely wrong and confusing. Greg-Z (talk) 11:27, 5 December 2017 (EST)
Sadly that's what most Western sources call it, though I've moved the file and modified the description to be a bit clearer. Evil Tim (talk) 11:33, 5 December 2017 (EST)
Thanks, I hope that maybe IMFDB would help in promoting more correct name. There is some data on this gun on the web site of Kalashnikov Museum (the entry, entitled "1. Submachine gun prototype designed in 1942"). Greg-Z (talk) 11:54, 5 December 2017 (EST)
And in response to the original question, no, there isn't any variant similar to it, aside from the fact that the nearly indentical PPS-43 style folding stock is used on the "Iron Curtain" variant of the PPSh-41. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:44, 5 December 2017 (EST)
Variants
The Type 99 is the "Royalty" Variant of the Bren, and the "Buck Private" variant of the Thompson is the VietCong Thompson (I think)--Treliazz777 (talk) 16:08, 6 December 2017 (EST)
I especially like the M1911 emptying itself. Evil Tim (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2017 (EST)
SVT-40 S.O.L Variant
I think the S.O.L Variant is closely resembles to the SKS, or AS-44--Treliazz (talk) 18:15, 10 December 2017 (EST)
The front end doesn't match, but the receiver makes me think of an AG42B Ljungman. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 19:13, 10 December 2017 (EST)
Additional Images
Moved the "Brandi" variant of the M3 Grease Gun here, because it doesn't really look like a Błyskawica. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 09:16, 11 December 2017 (EST)
I think that it looks like a Commando Mark III (which I'd love to hyperlink and/or give a comparison for, except it isn't on this wiki). Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:03, 11 December 2017 (EST)
Are you talking about the Volunteer Enterprises gun? If so, that is actually listed in the Lookalikes section on the Thompson page:Error creating thumbnail: File missingVolunteer Enterprises Commando Mark III - .45 ACP However, I do not really see the resemblance to that particular gun, as if nothing else the Brandi has a tubular rather than square receiver. I could perhaps buy that it is based on a Spitfire Carbine (the precursor to the Commando Mark II, the Volunteer Carbine, was a copy of the Spitfire Carbine with a different handguard) , but I can't really tell form the one screenshot on the page currently if this resemblance is more than coincidental. --commando552 (talk) 17:21, 11 December 2017 (EST)
Ah, thank you for pointing that out; I knew that I had seen something closer to this than the Commando. Thank you for the image, and for the suggestion. So, how do people here feel about the Spitfire ID? From what I can tell, the barrel is obviously shortened and fitted with some sort of shroud, but the upper is almost perfect, and the lower and stock are just about spot-on. On a sidenote, the "Candy" variant is essentially the same thing, but with a different finish, a different barrel shroud, and no stock. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 18:19, 11 December 2017 (EST)
I'm not 100% convinced. The shape of the lower appears to be a pretty close match (I'm ignoring the stock as this is from a Thompson anyway), but there are some big differences as well. The barrel is obviously wrong, the design and positioning of the sights is different, the charging handle is on the wrong side, and the position of the safety is farther forward. The Spitfire and Volunteer guns have a distinctive diagonal linkage on the magazine release which this gun seems to have, however it is on the opposite side of the gun so don't really know if it is a pro or con. All that said, I would probably say that it is at least in part based on the Spitfire (most notably with the shape of the lower), however there are a lot of liberties taken with it. --commando552 (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2017 (EST)
MP28 capacity
So, per a recent edit, the real weapon doesn't accept a TM 08 snail drum, but it does have a different 32-round box magazine (a similar of which would be later used for the MP40, from what I've watched on a Forgotten Weapons video), right? And my other question is: did the MP18 and the MP28 have 50-round magazines? I've seen a mention of this on some sources, but I don't know which ones to trust, tbh. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 04:48, 18 December 2017 (EST)
Not 100% but I believe that there were 50 rounders made for the MP28 but there were extremely rare. Much more common would be the 50 rounders for the Lanchester, which would be compatible as it was pretty much a straight rip-off of the MP28. --commando552 (talk) 18:18, 19 December 2017 (EST)
Thanks. Do Lanchester magazines fit in the MP40 as well? (I'm not sure about that). Also since we're here, what specific models of double-barreled shotguns might have been used in World War II? (I know not in main combat, but still)
On another note (something that I could have said long ago), I really want to punch SHG in the face for changing the firing sounds that were MUCH better in the beta.
Magazine interchangeability between the MP28, Lanchester, STEN and MP40 is a bit of a tricky issue. Although they are all based on the same design (MP28) there are differences between them that make them not necessarily interchangeable. A lot of the time, whether a magazine will interchange is more down to the tolerances of the specific gun you are using. I believe that generally speaking, the MP40 will not take the magazines from any of the other guns, due to the fact that the magazine well is noticeably shorter. I know that an MP40 magazine can theoretically go in a STEN (with a bit of wobble as the magazine is too short but it supposedly works), and MP28/Lanchester mags will go in the STEN. However, standard STEN mags will not go in the MP28 due to the fact that the reinforcement on the top of the mag comes farther forward on a STEN mag, however it is possible to modify STEN mags to make them fit. I'm not sure if this also applies to the Lanchester, most sources seem to say that they will take STEN mags but I vaguely remember once reading that the original Lanchesters didn't, and it was the later ones where the design was modified to also take STEN mags. As for double shotguns, I do not think that there was really any military use of them during the war. They were mainly used by Partisan forces so they would just be random civilian models. --commando552 (talk) 04:55, 20 December 2017 (EST)
PPSh-41 "Duck Soup"
It could have been inspired by something like this... although the basis is still that of a PPS-43. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 15:33, 3 January 2018 (EST)
The comment on the Garand reload
While I'll freely say there is some badly done animations in this game, the Garand isn't entirely wrong. The bolt of the Garand can technically get stuck by everything from slightly too tight en-bloc clips to part wear, so you can just slap it forward where it'll pick up and chamber a round. --PaperCake 22:04, 3 January 2018 (EST)
I want to add to the discussion. I've seen videos where people manually close the bolt on a M1 Garand, but I doubt that it's because of jamming. [For example in this video.] However, I lack knowledge on this part of the gun operation, so I can't give a proper explanation. --Wuzh (talk) 08:52, 6 January 2018 (EST)
More often than not, if you were to load a clip into a Garand in a WWII combat scenario my guess is that the bolt wouldn't close without giving it a tap. Garand clips are pretty tight, especially when they have not been used before which would have been the case back then. Also, the gun would not necessarily be totally broken in and smooth or have a lot of oil on it. --commando552 (talk) 12:53, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I heard the opposite, that wartime Garands had more powerful springs in them than modern ones (due to the invention of the lawsuit) and would quite happily go OMNOMNOMNOM on loading to a greater extent than modern ones. After all, it didn't get that reputation for nothing. A lot of these vintage Garands you're comparing a ~70 year old spring to a brand new one, too. Evil Tim (talk) 13:14, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I've handled a like-new Garand and it always needed a tap to go into battery. This was with spent/dummy rounds though which might have been the issue. According to the owner, the reason it was sticking was something to do with the fact that something in the magazine needs to broken in, either the follower or the magazine body itself I can't remember (it was probably 10 years ago at this point). This may be total bollocks as I have also heard the opposite, but the only Garand I have ever loaded was as-new and needed the tap. As for the eating fingers thing, this is kind of a separate issue to the reloading one. If you think about it, you can't actually get "Garand Thumb" (at least not a serious case) with a reload as the loaded clip and feeding round are taking up the space where your finger would have to be. When you can get it is lowering the bolt on an empty chamber as you need to push the follower down with your thumb deep in the action when the bolt releases. The other thing to bear in mind is that when you are pushing a full clip in you are pushing downwards with a fair amount of force on the top round which holds it in place in the clip. Regardless, I think the biggest factor of whether the bolt sticks or goes home is probably the condition of the clips, and also how clean and well oiled it is. --commando552 (talk) 14:20, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I'd have thought that by the time you're done doing all your marksmanship, manual-of-arms and field-stripping during training, your Garand would probably be as broken in as it was ever going to get.
That said, I'm not beyond admitting when I'm wrong. So the correct thing to say here would be that the bolt should sometimes close on its own, should at least do something when the clip is inserted since there's nothing that could make it hang up in the fully-rearward position, and having it need a tap every time on every Garand in existence is a little unusual. Evil Tim (talk) 14:36, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I think that the norm is that if the bolt doesn't go home then it will strip the first round by something like a quarter inch or so, as I think that initially it pushes the round straight forward and it is only when it starts trying to steer the round towards the chamber than it will get hung up due to the geometry of the mag well. As for worn in guns, the gun you train with will not be the one you fight with. Due to the fact that the army was massively expanding, I imagine that when you were handed a gun as you trotted off to the front line it would have been a brand new from the factory gun. Lastly, that part of that video is a really good example of the way that you were actually trained to load a Garand. Most people will tell you that you were meant to hold the op-rod back with the blade of your hand, but this isn't what was actually taught at the time for loading (possibly it was for dropping the bolt on an empty mag, not sure on that one). --commando552 (talk) 17:44, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I'd have thought the taskforce for Overlord would have been issued a weapon when they were deployed to England, and keep running drills with that until they were sent into combat. I mean I can see that for later arrivals, but wouldn't they want the D-Day groups at maximum readiness? Evil Tim (talk) 02:00, 7 January 2018 (EST)
Turner's Enfield
The section of the description about Turner carrying an Enfield revolver seems a bit pedantic IMO. Officers frequently carried non-standard sidearms, especially revolvers and it's shown in the game that your unit operated with the SOE. It seems pretty feasible for an officer, in Europe, who has worked with British special forces, to be carrying a British revolver--Slemke1998 (talk) 17:26, 29 January 2018 (EST)
I would think carrying an Enfield would be a bit of a diplomatic faux pas since British Tommies might think he'd burgled it from a corpse. Evil Tim (talk) 17:59, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Maybe but I doubt it. It was extremely common in both World Wars but admittedly more so in WW1 for US servicemen to use Webleys that they had modified to fire .45ACP instead of .455 Webley. Plus, while it's a part of war we'd rather forget, both sides were ill equipped for their combat conditions on numerous occasions(Americans at Bastogne, Germans on the Eastern front during the later years) so grave robbing was actually quite common --Slemke1998 (talk) 18:13, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Not to mention the question of where exactly he's supposed to get ammo. The U.S. didn't exactly have stocks of .38/200 just laying around. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 18:15, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Yeah that's the thing, it's possible to rationalise why he might have this gun, but it doesn't change that they don't explain it and with no explanation it's just kind of weird and inexplicable. You'd think something like that would be a plot point. Evil Tim (talk) 18:19, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Pyro, no but in WW2 Europe there were probably plenty of British arms depots. Evil Tim, from a gameplay POV that would be quite mundane. It's a minor, entirely plausible detail that only us anal gun nuts care about. There's also the fact that soviet firearms are pretty common in the market garden levels. Average gamer is probably gonna just think "hmm, I thought that gun was Russian" but anyone else who has a passing knowledge of WW2 firearms can rationalise it. It's not the norm, but it's plausible --Slemke1998 (talk) 18:35, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Yeah, but it also wouldn't be a big deal to give him an M1911. So why give him this odd gun if you're never going to make any particular deal about him having it? It's like that part in Ghosts where Hesh picks up the MTs255 and is like NOTICE THIS THIS IS A THING and then it's never mentioned again. Evil Tim (talk) 19:19, 29 January 2018 (EST)
The SOE didn't like the Webleys or Enfields for operations in Europe specifically for the reason of the lack of availability of the .38/200 ammo. This is the reason that they use the Inglis Hi-Power in 9x19mm which was a far more common and available round. As for why it is used in this scene, my guess is that it was just a game asset they realised they had made and were not currently using so decided to stick it in here for a bit of meaningless variety. --commando552 (talk) 05:32, 30 January 2018 (EST)
Brang this with the pics that I posted on this page.
Someone can ID the model of the grenade? And just for couriosity, isn't this supposed to have swastikas?
PS: Sorry if the pics is localized in Italian/Mangiaspaghetti-speak but the CoD games don't have a option for changing languages. (at least that I know).
--Dannyguns (talk) 09:59, 31 January 2018 (EST)
The page already IDs it, it's an M18. Evil Tim (talk) 10:36, 31 January 2018 (EST)
As for the markings, they are fictitious so I think they have just given it the Balkenkreuz to make this American model of grenade look stereotypically German, despite the fact that real German grenades were not marked with Swastikas or Balkenkreuz crosses. They have put a bit of effort into the text, as Nb is the correct prefix for German smoke grenades (it is short for nebel meaning "fog"), although the part after this is referring to the fuse which I believe is a fictional designation of fuse. The thing underneath reads "Rauch" which translates to smoke, but I do not believe they called these "smoke" grenades, instead they were "fog" grenades being called "Nebelhandgranate" (fog hand grenade). --commando552 (talk) 10:46, 31 January 2018 (EST)
Shoving the Panzerschreck into the ground during the reload animation in third person
I wonder, according to the page, if the first-person view ofl reloading the Panzerschreck probably requires shoving it into the ground, what would it look like in third-person? Is the Panzerschreck smaller in third-person? Is the person taller in third-person? Did the Panzerschreck actually get shoved into the ground? --Wuzh (talk) 16:46, 6 February 2018 (EST)
They are taller.--Dannyguns (talk) 07:22, 7 February 2018 (EST)
Leaked variants
I've recently heard from some YouTubers that there are a few variants that are in the game files but currently not accessible in-game. Here's a video of them. I'm not sure if they will be added to the game proper or not, but I think we can still talk about them on the talk page. Are there any interesting things in the variants we're seeing here? --Wuzh (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2018 (EST)
What this video seems to be showing off are all the Heroic variants, which are the same as the Epic ones, except cleaner-looking. I don't really think that it'll make much of a difference, but the video does at least give us some good looks at the variants. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 15:40, 9 February 2018 (EST)
While the "Enfield No. 2" in campaign is modeled after a true one, the version added in The Resistance event looks nothing like one. Ideas about the ID? (for starters, it has a trigger guard identical to that of the Smith & Wesson .44 Double Action) --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:58, 25 February 2018 (EST)
Probably a hybrid of the S&W and the Enfield. The cylinder and frame(might be the wrong term, not great with revolvers) are definitely from the Enfield but that barrel definitely isn't. --Slemke1998 (talk) 10:03, 28 February 2018 (EST)
It's a Peacemaker, only with a top-break reloading. --Slon95 (talk) 11:43, 2 March 2018 (EST)
I am genuinely starting to wonder if Sledgehammer is doing this on purpose JUST to anger firearm enthusiasts. Seriously, how do you cock up weapons this hard and this consistently? --Gunmaster2011 (talk) 14:28, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
"On purpose JUST to anger firearm enthusiasts" - that's what all CoD developers have been doing for years. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:34, 13 March 2018 (EDT)
Local MP Gun Question...
Well, I downloaded the Shamrock & Awe update. I went to multiplayer to check the new guns, 'cause in the previous update they added guns even in local multiplayer. But ALL the update guns disappeared.
Why the devs did that? Is completely nonsense! --Dannyguns (talk) 12:39, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
Blitzkrieg
So, the Blitzkrieg event just dropped, complete with a baseball bat, and an impressive 5 new guns. These are:
A Japanese Type 5 Garand copy,
An M2 Carbine with an actual modeled selector switch (apparently nobody told the people who put it in that that's what the PaPed version of the normal M1 Carbine is called),
A Costa Rican contract Breda PG (the open-bolt version with the 4-round burst function), called the "ITRA Burst", for whatever reason,
A Sterling SMG, and
An Arisaka Type 38.
From what I can tell, some of these already have obvious issues (e.g. the M2 Carbine fires really slowly, the Type 5 feeds from an en-bloc clip like a normal M1, the Breda holds 32 rounds instead of 20, the Sterling holds 30 rounds instead of 34, etc.), and downright ridiculous variants, as expected. Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 18:57, 17 April 2018 (EDT) P.S.: For whatever reason, one of the variants of the baseball bat has a spent artillery shell on the end of it. Home run indeed.
P38 or P5?
Whenever I first saw it, I thought the "SAP" was based on a Walther P5. Given that it a P38 doesn't match perfectly, is it possible it's closer to a P5 Sporting Model?--H3nry8adger1982 (talk) 16:30, 18 April 2018 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982
The P5 has no slide-mounted safety and the front end is rather angled, while the ingame slide is pretty flat. I know the TP-82 is a thing in this game, but trying to ID the "SAP" as a P5 seems like a bit of a stretch given that the P5 is from the 70s. Frankly, it's probably just a P38 that was modeled poorly.--AgentGumby (talk) 18:15, 18 April 2018 (EDT)
The in-game "Sterling" model is a Patchett Mk.I with what looks like a slightly curved magazine (neither the same as the Sterling L2's magazine nor the same as the Patchett's) and a canted cocking slot, which did exist on Patchett Mk.Is but only the about the last quarter of the production run - only 100 were made in total so there would have only been a few dozen Patchett Mk.Is with canted cocking slots. The barrel of the in-game model seems to be taken from some of the earliest Patchett guns, the Experimental Models from 1943, of which only five were ever made.
The OSS-designed suppressor for the M3 Grease Gun was actually screwed on to a specially-designed threaded barrel. The in-game model does not use this barrel so the in-game deptiction is still inaccurate. The in-game suppressor also resembles the version used by the SOE, designed independently by RSAF Enfield. The SOE suppressor was not the same as the OSS one.
The "Devil's Piano" variant of the MG-42 in multiplayer is based on the experimental MG-39Rh machine gun.
The "Stripe-Happy" variant of the FG-42 is a hybrid between the 1st model FG42 (though the pistol grip is not so angled in game) and the Japanese Type 2 paratrooper rifle.
The "Fiore De Morte" variant is a hybrid between the Breda M30 and Breda M37 machine guns.
The "Serum" variant of the StG.44 has elements of the MkB.42(W), especially the reciever and pistol grip.
Quick update; some points in this list are kinda wrong-ish. I will be adding only the points I find verifiable. --Wuzh (talk) 15:18, 17 September 2018 (EDT)
An interesting video.
So, if the information in this video I found is to be believed, then we've got some interesting weapons headed our way. That being said, I'm doubtful that all of these are making it into the game, not leastly because I have a hard time seeing the devs adding, like, 5 SMGs to the game and not a single shotgun, not to mention the obvious redundancy of adding both a Sten and an Austen, but then again, this is Sledgehammer we're dealing with, so quite literally anything could happen. What do you guys think? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 22:36, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
They're basically trying to stuff all those obscure weapons into the game like DICE did in Battlefield 1, although more egregiously into supply drops like the previous DLC weapons. Nevertheless, here's my two cents on each weapon:
KG m/21 - Essentially a Swedish version of the BAR with a smaller caliber and pistol grip. It most likely will be added to the LMG category or to the Rifles category like the BAR was, as a slightly weaker copy.
ZK-383 - Yet another side-loaded SMG. Maybe it's gonna fit between the Sten/Type 100 and the Waffe 28.
Ribeyrolles - I think it's going to be the 1918 automatic carbine rather than the SMG. Performance-wise, it would basically be a weaker counterpart to the Volksturmgewehr.
Carcano - Italian rifle. Maybe weaker with a faster bolt, maybe even has iron sights like the Kar98k.
PTRS-41 - Likely gonna be similar to its World at War incarnation; an impractical 20-kilo sniper that acts like the .50 caliber rifles from previous games.
Mosin-Nagant - Why this gun wasn't added yet is beyond me. May have iron sights like the Kar98k so we can go Simo Häyhä.
Austen - Essentially an Australian copy of the Sten. A redundant weapon choice since we already have the latter; the Owen Gun would be a more interesting suggestion instead.
Chatelleraut - French top-loaded LMG. Would probably be faster-firing version of the Bren in-game.
EMP44 - German stamped-metal SMG that was rejected by the Heer for being too crude, and they already had the StG44 replacing the MP40 and Kar 98k at that time. Nevertheless, more viable replacements would be the MP35 or the MP 3008.
Blyskawica - Polish SMG built for the local resistance. Performance-wise, it's gonna be like the Sten it was based on.
Bechowiec-1 - Uber-rare Polish machine pistol (around 11-13 made). Given its lack of a stock and slide like an automatic pistol, it would make more sense to make it a pistol - a rather big machine pistol.
De Lisle - Silent carbine based on the Lee-Enfield; it would fit the niche role as a covert sniper, albeit at close-range.
Basically what the headline says, with an emphasis on making each weapon distinct as opposed to just basing it on the existing weapons.
Browning Hi-Power: High-capacity semi-auto pistol with a 13-round magazine. May have a slower firecap (because of its heavier trigger pull) to compensate for the capacity.
Sturmpistole: Flare gun converted into a grenade launcher. Basically a pocket noob tube.
Browning Auto-5: How'd this not appear in the game? It could be the Allied counterpart to the Toggle Action, but with shell-by-shell reloading and slightly higher damage and range.
United Defense M42: Intended Thompson replacement supplied to resistance groups. Makes use of two 25-round magazines welded together for faster alternate reloads, like the "dual mags" attachment from previous games.
Charlton Automatic Rifle: Converted automatic Lee-Enfield hailing from New Zealand. Unfortunately most were destroyed in a warehouse fire after the war, but still an impressive weapon nonetheless. May be classified as a automatic rifle or LMG in-game.
Vickers K machine gun: The Allied counterpart to the German aircraft MGs. Based on the gas-operated land model used by the SAS, the Vickers K is essentially a more badass Lewis, with a fire rate comparable to the MG42.
Holland & Holland Double Rifle: For fun rather than realism. Basically has the same damage model of the M30's rifle bullet, but with twice the ammo and very strong recoil. May even have iron sights in lieu of a scope for increased challenge. Variants basically give the rifle lavishly ornate furniture like those custom models.
Big Joe 5: a crossbow developed by the OSS for covert assassination missions. It could basically be like the crossbows from previous games, with or without explosive bolts.
Feel free to make any comments or suggestions. --MJ79 (talk) 09:29, 24 April 2018 (EDT)
Well MJ, I think that those are all some excellent suggestions, of which very few are going to be added, because Sledgehammer. On a completely unrelated note, is it just me or does the M1911A1 in this game seem a bit too thin? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2018 (EDT) P.S.: I might give some suggestions later, but right now I don't feel like making any more quadruple-digit edits after the nightmare of dealing with all of those H3VR screenshots.
How about a Type 14 or 94 as a joke weapon? :P--H3nry8adger1982 (talk) 11:33, 1 May 2018 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982
Type 94 as a grenade, please. DJ_von_CAHEK (talk) 11:17, 20 May 2018 (EDT)
The Springfield Air Service magazine can be made detachable?
I was looking up images of the Air Service magazine on normal Springfield M1903s and I came across this auction page, which states that the weapon "Comes with 20 shot detachable magazine usually associated with the M1903 Air Service rifle" Is this relevant to the page? --Wuzh (talk) 09:37, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
I think it's "detachable" in the same sense of the Lee-Enfield mag where you CAN remove it but you really shouldn't, given the doctrine was to just feed it a ton of stripper clips and move on. --PaperCake 11:30, 3 August 2018 (EST)
Wrong flavor of Mosin
The M91/30 isn't actually an M91/30, given the ladder sight, hex receiver, extra long length and unhooded front sight it's an original M1891 Mosin. The bolt's weird, it doesn't really look like a proper 91/30 PU bolt, it kinda looks like those bubba'd ones you see people make. --PaperCake 11:21, 3 August 2018 (EST)
Panzerschreck talllness
What if everybody is just, y'know, taller than real life average heights and can reload like that easy? --Wuzh (talk) 04:57, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
...And what if they're not? Why would we only be playing as soldiers of above-average height? It's not Tall of Duty. :P
More sensibly, this is an ad-hoc rationalisation. Sure, that could be true, but it could also be they just messed up the scale, or that it was done because a necromancer told Activision that he would summon skeletons to beat them up if the Panzerschreck was the right size. All we do know is that this isn't what a WW2 soldier of average size would see if he did this with a Panzerschreck. Evil Tim (talk) 05:08, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
Not to mention that when you look at the playable characters in third-person view, it's pretty clear that they don't have Dolph Lundgren's stature. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 08:04, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
Ok since there's been an edit war recently, let's settle this here: @Tamarin88 how on earth is the top-break/swing-out thing a relevant argument? Firstly, they couldn't have used the same animation, considering that the reload seen in the campaign happens in a non-standard gameplay instance where the character is forced to use the revolver one-handed while dragging a wounded ally, as opposed to traditional gameplay. And secondly, contrarily to your claim, the accurately modeled Enfield was actually planned for multiplayer (in addition to its presence in the campaign), as shown in the link that I provided. Therefore, the point about the hybrid variant design was fine, and your insistence on removing it over and over is just another case of you randomly removing bits of interesting info, which is an issue that you've already been told about before. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:01, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
I originally added that trivia. It was my completely baseless speculation. It was not fine, it's not that interesting, I regretted adding it, so I deleted it in the first place. My writing was poor and overly dramatic, and the trivia is just not worth preserving. Let it stay deleted. --Wuzh (talk) 17:09, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
Eh, about your part, I guess it's the "beyond IMFDB's ability to answer" thing that was probably overdone, nothing more :P I was merely talking about the first sentence. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:15, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
The top break/swing-out thing is relevant, as they would have had to re-rig and probably re-model the SP Enfield to make it top-break. The SP Enfield was indeed intended for MP at one point, however the MP revolver can't be a variant of it unless, again, they re-rigged and re-modeled. And even aside from all that, there's no real reason to make the claim anyway - there's nothing indicating that the MP revolver was a variant, nor would it be by any means the first time that CoD has misidentifed weapons or created frankenguns. --Tamarin88 (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
Again, this doesn't mean anything here. It wouldn't be that hard to adjust the model polygons, etc. to make it top-break (nevermind the fact that the swing-out version didn't even have an ejector rod to begin with), plus the "Obstructor" variant actually uses the exact mutant model (while other weapon variants don't use the same model as their base counterparts, bar very few exceptions such as launchers), which supports the fact that the mutant revolver was indeed planned as such. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 17:41, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
The "Obstructor" variant proves absolutely nothing. All of the DLC weapons that have collection variants available as part of their events have that variant be a reskin with no model changes. The "Enfield" is not a break from tradition in this regard. --Tamarin88 (talk) 18:00, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
Eh, seems right about the DLC weapons (unlike the ones from the original release of the game). Ok while I still have my doubts about it, I'll leave it off the page for now, since after all there are other base weapons in-game that have weird hybrid models (not as much awkward as this one, but still). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 18:28, 17 April 2019 (EDT)
June 4th update
New content for a game that's been out for over eighteen months. Bless these people. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:20, 4 June 2019 (EDT)
Categorization, my LAD, is made up of mistakes...
...but, as useful and truth-leading as those mistakes may be, it's best to get them ironed out quickly. So, time for a new semantical debate: where should the LAD actually go? It's here now, and it's been datelined for BFV, so it's probably for the best that we figure something out soon. See, it's designed like an LMG - bipod, belt-feed, etc., but it's chambered for a pistol cartridge, which one would assume would make it an SMG. So... what do we do? It's not the only thing of the sort we might eventually have to deal with, either; there're some custom AR builds with belt-fed 9x19mm uppers and full-auto lowers that could fall into the same category, as could those miniature .22 LR-chambered M1919 Brownings that pop up time to time. I mean, it's a pretty edge-case issue, sure, but I'd still rather get it settled quickly. So, what're everyone's thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:27, 4 June 2019 (EDT)
What few sources I can find class it and similar weapons as machine guns, for what it's worth. --Tamarin88 (talk) 18:08, 4 June 2019 (EDT)
Eh while it arguably shares some characteristics with a 'proper' MG (belt feed is debatable, a bipod less so - You can put a bipod on any shoulder/long gun. Hell you can even put one on a handgun) at the end of the day being chambered for a pistol cartridge makes it an SMG as far as I'm concerned. StanTheMan (talk) 23:56, 4 June 2019 (EDT)
The designers called LAD a light machine gun, and it was suggested for usage in this category. But technically it has blowback action, and this is, as I think, most essential argument to list it as an SMG.Greg-Z (talk) 06:06, 5 June 2019 (EDT)
The 'suggested use' of the Thompson was as a "trench gun", yet it isn't called that (indeed most of the time you see that phrase is with shotguns). A lot of contemporary subguns and SBR's are called 'PDWs' by the companies that designed and make them, but we don't use that term. Ultimately what the designers 'intended' or 'what they call it' isn't really relevant. We call it what it is by characteristics. That said, operating system isn't as important since a lot of guns use the same system(s). Now strictly speaking you could call any single-man-operable sustained-fire automatic gun of any caliber a 'light machine gun' and it would be technically true as almost all of the characteristics match - This is where caliber becomes the delineating factor.
And so, what we call 'light' machine guns are one-man operable automatic weapons still chambered for rifle caliber rounds - generally the small/shortened calibers used by assault rifles, but still. If it's a single-man automatic weapon that fires pistol-caliber rounds it's a submachine gun. This is plainly stated in the 'Machine Gun' category page so I don't get where the supposed confusion or debate is. StanTheMan (talk) 14:23, 5 June 2019 (EDT)
OK, I'm sorry to mess in the discussion. --Greg-Z (talk) 14:57, 5 June 2019 (EDT)
Presumably it comes from the fact that everywhere except from IMFDB calls it an LMG, nor is calibre generally considered by other sources as a factor in determining whether something is an LMG or not except when it exceeds certain sizes - not whether it goes under them.--Tamarin88 (talk) 03:49, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
What other sources? Who determines these 'sizes'? And just what 'size' exactly? Not that it matters since you're talking about "everywhere else" and frankly "everywhere else" is free to classify it however they want. Here we have a clearly stated standard based on a clear delineating trait - and that's pretty much that. I again don't see what the hell else more there is to say unless you're more interested in arguing about something rather beyond the scope of the question of how a gun - not a group or type but just ONE rather-marginal-in-either-classification gun - should be listed on the page. A question that again has a clear answer. I'll only conclude this by saying something I've said too many fucking times before yet I'll say it again - We're not a gun encyclopedia here, and I for one am not interested in another incessant quarrel that seems be more interested trying to make it one, or at least more of one than it really needs to be. If I sound irritated here, well it's because I am. StanTheMan (talk) 17:04, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
Okay, okay, I'll drop it, though if we do classify it as an SMG we probably shouldn't make it sound like our opinion is the definitive one and imply that SHG is wrong in classifying it as an LMG. --Tamarin88 (talk) 18:33, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
That's definitely fair enough - You can always note extra details in the writeup. Though I suppose that can work both ways as FCM mentioned below, so.. bah. My thing is to just default to what the site goes by which may not always be absolutely accurate but is usually good enough for our purposes - We're just finding somewhere to put it on a page. We're not looking to be a real authority on it or any other particular gun, really. Indeed shouldn't be. BUT I guess that doesn't have to be the case always absolutely either so again, bah. In any event my bad for getting kinda heavy on my end. Eh, it happens. StanTheMan (talk) 22:17, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
I think both sides have merit, and I would definitely want supporting evidence from both sides in the final writeup. I'd still lump this in with LMGs to avoid grief from casual users. --Funkychinaman (talk) 09:15, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
Isn’t this thing a bit like the Hellreigel from BF1? That would be a good example to go off of, as it’s characterized as an SMG on that page. --AgentGumby (talk) 17:38, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
The Hellriegel's more of an SMG than machine gun, albeit it's overgrown to a level surpassing stuff like the Thompson or Suomi. But the LAD is more machine gun than SMG, it's got a bipod, a belt feed, a top cover, a MG42 style stock. The only thing that really makes it an SMG is the caliber and the action. Plus we're throwing a LOT of shit over this so I'd advise we just wrap it up, call it an LMG before we keep this perpetual butthurt train going until the heat death of the universe. --PaperCake 19:07, 6 June 2019 (EST)
I think we should lump it with the LMGs and make note of the pistol caliber in the description. --Funkychinaman (talk) 20:22, 6 June 2019 (EDT)
I think it has to be categorised as an SMG, "pistol calibre machine gun is an SMG" is one of the most firm rules in defining firearm categories. It's a real edge case, of course. But "Light Machine Gun" in CoD is a category for automatic support weapons and almost always has GPMGs in it anyway. Evil Tim (talk) 13:00, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
As I mentioned above, I'd give the edge to LMG if only to limit the griping from casual users, with an extensive explanation why in the writeup. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:29, 7 June 2019 (EDT)
Eh, let's not give in to them filthy casuals, this is an esports pro wiki that plays with mouse and keyboard and doesn't afraid of anything. Evil Tim (talk) 02:53, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
Honestly I'm not sure what solution to choose right now (even though I'd lean slightly more towards SMG), but I gotta mention that adding info that could be potentially erroneous just "to avoid grief from casual users" isn't a good idea. Might as well put the Chauchat-Ribeyrolles in the SMG category if that's the case (on that note, I'm wondering if it were officially referred to as a pistolet-mitrailleur in the past or if the latter were just a general term used by some people (including Jean Huon) to describe such weapons - ok that's kinda off-topic, but still). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 03:31, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
We should be consistent with what we did with the Ribeyrolles. --Funkychinaman (talk) 08:22, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
Well, we categorized the Chauchat-Ribeyrolles in accordance with its caliber, not with what some people call it. So being consistent with it means you're gonna have to categorize the LAD as an SMG :P --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
Just name it "intermediate machine gun" then. --Slon95 (talk) 09:32, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
There's no such thing, and coming up with our own terms only muddies the waters further. That said, I definitely agree with being consistent if nothing else. StanTheMan (talk) 15:06, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
Russians consider it a machine gun. So I don't know what else to say. --Slon95 (talk) 08:29, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
It being a 'machine gun' isn't what's being debated here, it's what type. StanTheMan (talk) 15:06, 8 June 2019 (EDT)
Plus foreign-language classifications aren't really relevant. Germany calls a whole bunch of mortars grenade launchers. Russia calls a bunch of rocket launchers flamethrowers. The Shockcat-Ribbleyrobbly is an automatic carbine (being completely unsuited to any machine gun role and all) and the LAD is an SMG. Evil Tim (talk) 03:05, 17 June 2019 (EDT)
