Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

This Game is the best game.

Ok, it's not the best game but it's one of the best games of all time. It's basically an awesome Bond Movie. It has a awesome pre-title sequence (The Virtous Mission), a great title sequence with an awesome song (You know the one i'm talking about), a bond girl (EVA), fights with various henchmen (Cobras, Ocelot), Q (Sigint) and a incredibly ridiculous stereotypical evil enemy (Volgin and his cronies). It's the best game on the PS2. It also got great voice acting and extremely awesome and ridiculous stuff like when EVA dropsaults Ocelot with a motorcycle. Even though i got some complaints the game is still one of the best games of all time.-Oliveira 23:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure is, I really like Ocelot in this game, he is so badass with his revolver tricks and that hand gesture he does all the time. I also like how the game has you use survival tactics too, such as finding food, and treating your injuries. It was this game got me into MGS.--Alienqueen11 23:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I also like how Ocelot kinda admires Snake. I also like how Ocelot is basically a Cowboy and how Snake says that the engraving on his SAA ins't useful tatical wise. I just love this game. I think I'm the only one that laughed in MGS2 when there was the easter egg where snake is caught having a....ugh...erm... a happy time in a locker. Or was it MGS1? Anyway, i have some complaints about the game though. Like how EVA is supposed to be chinese and she looks extremely american or all the anachroisms (I probably spelled that wrong) or how Snake spergs out about guns.-Oliveira 00:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, and it's possible I may not because I haven't played MGS3 in a while, Eva was actually American but had been kidnapped by the Philosophers and sent to China, where she grew up in an orphanage-type place and was trained as a Chinese agent. Spartan198

I don't know but she's either Chinese or an american that defected to the chinese or she could be what you just said, Spartan.-Oliveira 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

She could be based on those Americans who was captured during the Korean war, in which they been indoctrinated about the Chinese Communism. When the war was over, they were released and starting to promote Communism in U.S. However Eva is not captured, so I guess she was either left behind by her American parents in China (could be Shanghai) when Mao Zedong won the Chinese Civil war and send to an orphanage or she was kidnapped by the Chinese Philosophers and train her into an agent. - Han

I remember this was the most played Metal Gear Solid game I've ever own. I would play it over and over more than my remake of MGS1 and MGS2. When MGS4 came out, I still had time to play the 3rd one again because of the story and gameplay. Excalibur01 06:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Airsoft 1911

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Snake's custom M1911: in reality, a custom airsoft gun made by Sheriff Co. of Japan.

I dont think thats the model they used in the game. First of all, it was a Government model, and on its slide it had 90 degree serrations like the GI M1911A1(Both on the front and on the back). The grip safety was a standard m1911a1 grip safety, but was edited in some regions. The trigger had 5 or 6 holes in it. It had a threaded black barrel, and the wooden grips were cut to accomodate a cqc knife. That 1911 may look similar to untrained eyes, but it's quite different from what Big Boss had in Op.Snake Eater.

Actually, the custom M1911A1 Naked Snake uses has no grip safety whatsoever. This is mentioned during radio conversations with Sigint. --Orca*

Could someone try to get a screencap of it from the menu rather than using the one from my site, and don't try to deny it, I edited it to remove the markings on the slide. -Crimson. This 1911 looks more like a colt XSE to me...-izak 99

this is the exact copy, more or less.. just an airsoft replica, copy paste the link* http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.y-cw.com/hal-12b.htm&ei=IIsUSsbuE9HVlQf4qrTFAw&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnm%2B7267719%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-45,ADBS:en

Moved this into discussion. As I also noted in the MGS4 discussion, the airsoft gun in the picture has little more than a slight superficial resemblance to the weapon in the game. The link above seems to be a more accurate replica of the pistol in the game.

Slide lock on the tranq pistols

Why is it Snake never simply disengages the slide lock on the tranq pistols in these games in order to enable them to cycle on their own? Spartan198 17:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Best guess is that the rounds don't have the power to fully cycle the slide on their own.-Ranger01 23:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

its so that it is quieter apperently. if he fires without the slide lock it will become louder---92.12.88.35 15:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC) i think that is from the manual or something, cos i definatly is true

Personally I'd rather have a slightly louder pistol that can cycle on its own rather than a slightly quieter one that's, in effect, a "bolt action" pistol. Spartan198 15:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish the game let the player disengage the slide-lock on the tranq pistols when you're not using it with a suppressor. That would make it more useful in boss fights or other situations where you want to use non-lethal force but either don't have suppressors for the Hush Puppy or don't want to use one. --Mazryonh 18:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

As I understand it, the S&W Model 39's used for Hush Pupppy's were irreversibly modified -- the slide-lock function could not be disengaged. A later version of the slide-lock pistol was the Beretta M9, and its modification, while also permanent, permitted the weapon to be disengaged from a manual reloading function into semiautomatic function. Snake, however, was NOT PERMITTED TO ENGAGE during the Virtuous Mission, the operation in which he was issued the Mk.22. Hence, the added silence of a slide-lock pistol, the ammunition, etc., were not meant for direct combat -- they were meant for sneaking. The same thing goes for Solid Snake in MGS2 -- sneaking mission, stealth only, do not kill Marines. Than the Russians came... And Snake picked up a USP, first chance he got. ;) --Orca*

I really don't think what Snake was or wasn't permitted to do is at all relevant. As with any black operation, there's always the possibility that you can be compromised and engaged yourself. When SEALs or some other SOF team goes on a recon mission where their ROE don't permit them to engage, the whole team doesn't take M4s modified to be hand-cycled only, do they? Spartan198 11:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't know -- not a SEAL. But I imagine they have, in addition to their primaries, some sort of option for silent killing from a ranged distance -- the Mk.22 was developed to kill guard dogs; something that SF teams wouldn't be able to easily sneak up on and stab (or whatever). The Mk.22 represented in MGS3 uses that aspect, of 'the most silence possible from a distance', because solo ops were a FOX UNIT selling point to the CIA, who would organize them into an official unit if they succeeded in a completely undetectable rescue -- no deaths on either side, objective achieved, no traces to the US. Supposedly, even Snake's shell casings were unmarked, to say nothing of the tranquilizer load. Invisibility; on a physical and politcal scale, that was the mission as the story tells it, and so the Mk.22 was seen as the best choice to send Snake, already lightly loaded, in with. --Orca*

Where exactly are you getting that the Mk. 22 was developed specifically to "kill guard dogs"? Having an extra gun on you specifically to kill a few guard dogs that: 1. may or may not be there 2. are likely within full view of their handlers seems incredibly superfluous when any silenced pistol would do the job equally well. Forgive me if I'm a tad bit skeptical of that claim. -- K 98.118.59.151 17:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply -- The Mk.22 was nicknamed Hush Puppy due to this reason. You raise an excellent point; if I had to guess, the pistol was more than likely used on the handler(s), or sentries, or anything else that needed to be killed without raising alarm, as well. But I've never read anything that denoted it for that purpose; I've only ever read of the Mk.22 being developed to silently kill dogs. In terms of other sileneced pistols is use by the US in 1960's, I couldn't suggest anything off the top of my head. MGS3 represented suppressors the for XM16E1 and the 1911A1 as very compact for the time, or as far as I know of, so I'm not certain why the Mk.22 would have been seen as necessary if there had been other alternatives that would do things just as easily. Perhaps it was due to the slide-lock? Maybe that made it quieter and more appealing to those who used it? -- Orca*

According to a couple books I've read, the whole "killing guard dogs" bit was a ploy to get the pistol through bureaucratic red tape because certain powers-that-be thought that killing enemy combatants with a silenced weapon was "dishonorable" or something like that. Spartan198 08:26, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Apparently the idea is locking the slide prevents gas release from the ejection port as the weapon cycles, minimises the sound of cycling by letting the user do it slowly, and also means the gun isn't throwing brass around you'd have to look for (ground sign, and all). Most of the really quiet covert weapons use manually operated actions (eg De Lisle, Welrod), so it's not like it's just this one. Vangelis 11:17, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Reloading while carrying a knife

I understand the tactics behind holding a knife in your reaction hand while you grip the weapon, but in reloading, that's just one extra thing you have to worry about not dropping. How would you get a good grasp of the spare mag while holding onto a knife. Snake seems to have no problems but it just occurred to me that trying this in real life can be very dangerous. Excalibur01 16:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

It's even worse in MGS4 where apparently no one has ever heard of bayonets and always has a knife in the off-hand. It's part of the bias towards the gun-and-knife tactics of CQC that the series gained since MGS3. One way I think the reload could work with the knife in your off hand is if you grip the knife with your ring and pinky finger while using your thumb, index, and middle fingers to grip the mag. The real answer, however, would require that you look closely at the reload animations in this game or MGS4 to find out how they do it. They're all motion-captured, so they all have to be something real human beings can do. --Mazryonh 17:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

It's not that they've never heard of bayonets. It's that bayonets are a clumsy, antiquated last ditch weapon. They are good in practice for basically one thing, and that is to (hopefully) turn your assault rifle into something like a spear which you will somehow manage to stab your enemy with before he fills you full of messy holes. You fix bayonets when you are out of bullets, grenades, helmets to throw at the other guy, air support and better ideas. In the close-quarters combat techniques that MGS' CQC is based on, the actual purpose of a knife is not merely as a cutting and slashing weapon; the knife serves as a method of controlling an opponent using pain-compliance and leverage. Granted I never saw anyone carry their knife like that all the time, but then if I've been within a hundred miles of some special forces unit, they never bothered to come over and ask if I'd build 'em a house or something. I've definitely never seen anyone just running around with their bayonet fixed though. Atypicaloracle 00:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Thinking back on this I believe it would be more convenient, simply for the sake of gameplay, if Snake could fix his Stun Knife as a bayonet onto his various long guns, then it would be simpler to simply tap an NPC with his new bayonet to stun them into submission or kill them silently with a well-placed stab instead of having to equip the knife to do so, or to rely on CQC (which takes more time). --Mazryonh 14:54, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Here's an experiment to try: Get a gun in one hand and a steak knife in the other. Hold the knife with the blade down just like Big Boss does. Now eject the magazine. Just let it drop, dont worry about it. Now pick it back up or find a new magazine. Do so by gripping the knife with your ring finger and pinky and clamping it against your palm. It keeps it in place and keeps it stable. Use your thumb, index finger, and middle finger to manipulate the magazine and rack the slide. Resume your grip and go about your day. It might sound complicated but even doing it four or fives times it starts to get easier. Big Boss holds his gun like this EVERY SINGLE TIME. So inconclusion it isnt that dangerous or awkward. go ahead and try it for yourself.

-Double Agent M

I rather not recommend random people online to try a trick that an ingame "professional" can do. As I said, if you aren't careful, you could end up stabbing yourself in the gut. The point of reloading is to get a firm and complete grip on the spare mags and then get it out and into the gun as efficiently as possible. Not doing it super speed like some people would try, but even doing it slowly, you'd have to mentally check the knife with that blade sticking out. You'd need to train yourself constantly with a fake knife before using a live blade. Otherwise, the chances for an amateur to stab himself is very high. And I don't want anyone to point back on my article if I say "hey, try this at home and NOT end up stabbing yourself with a steak Knife". if you reload without a complete grip on the mag, you might drop it or the knife. Remember this is Big Boss! And Solid Snake can do it as well, though oddly enough he never did that in Metal Gear Solid, or MGS2. Solid Snake only started to do the knife and handgun combo after MGS3 when we've known about Big Boss's early years and also Solid Snake's Mk 23 was replaced with a 1911 to emulate Big Boss Excalibur01 02:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with Excalibur. That's not something the average person should try. But I should point out that Snake's knife is a lot smaller than a kitchen knife. I myself, while not technically a trained professional, do know my way around with a blade and did a little test run with one of my boot knives. Turns out, it actually isn't that awkward (though still quite dangerous). When I grab my mags, I contort my wrist to the right (thumb toward the body) and grab with my thumb, pointer, and index fingers. Holding the knife like Snake does, the blade faces away from me when I reach for a mag. So the moral here is (A) kids, do not try this at home and (B) it's actually not that hard to firmly hold both knife and magazine. Spartan198 15:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But apparently in MGS4, Solid Snake does the knife combo with pretty much all of his guns if I am not mistaken. Imagine trying to grasp a rifle magazine while holding a knife Excalibur01 19:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Not that difficult, either. Spartan198 12:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I just think that holding a knife at the same time wouldbe just as extra thing to worry about and sure, a knife is good in CQB, but i doubt it will be useful having it out when you are in the open. Excalibur01 18:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Not if your an expert at it. ;)

The Patriot

It actually resembles the Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol seen in movie "Congo" and "Soldier",but this one most probably tricked out from M16A1 upper receiver with it's buttstock removed combined with the Patiot's lower receiver,and were given the M231 PFW firing mode.

• I'll see if I can get a screencap; I think the old image that was here was a real-life mock-up made from an RMA Patriot to look like the MGS4 Patriot, but I seem to recall the 3 Patriot looked far closer to the M231. Dongs 11:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It did. It even had the threaded handguard. Spartan198 15:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But it can't be a M231 FPW, the game takes place in 1964 and the M231 FPW was not designed until 1979! It may look like the M231 FPW but it's probably just a custom XM16E1. As far as the full-auto only goes, maybe the developers thought it did not need single-fire because it's unlimited. On a side note, Konami must of took the term "tumble rounds" wrong. The first time you see the Boss fire the Patriot, you see the 5.56 bullets fly in slow-mo and they actually tumble end over end in the air! O_o

Listen, Konami doesn't know much about guns (Including the bullets as well), so it is most likely the wet-dream of they think a "special" M-16 carbine would look like. They don't know a lot about history either, dispite the game takes place in the 1960's. - Kilgore 22:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

• The Lockheed M-21 wouldn't fly until December of 1964 or launch a drone until 1966. The Mi-24 first flew in 1969. The Bartini Beriev VVA-14 WiG is from the early 70s. I don't think being an anachronism stops it being an M231.

Yeah I agree, but I kinda doubt Konami meant it to be a M231. I still think it's meant to be a custom M16 not a M231. Maybe it would help if you guys could get a good pic of a M231 and a good, clear close-up of the Patriot. (I could be wrong and if it is just like the M231, I think it should still be called a custom M16 on the page though.) Also, when were Beta-C magazines made.

What ammunition does Colonel Volgin use?

Colonel Volgin is often seen with belts of ammunition on his person, and also often seen electrically firing long cartridges of unknown type in his fists, using the electricity in his suit to trigger them. Can anyone identify the kind of bullet he's using?

In any case, such a thing would not work in real life. The chamber and barrel of a gun aren't just for show, and if you try to fire a cartridge without them there will be consequences. Even if you could electrically trigger the primer of a cartridge in your hand, the fact that your fingers are no substitute for an actual gun chamber means that the casing will try to expand uniformly, which means instead of propelling the bullet forward the casing in the powder will just explode in all directions and likely amputate your fingers. Furthermore, without a rifled barrel to spin-stabilize the bullet or to provide a single channel to focus the expanding gas formed by the ignited powder, a bullet fired from a "naked" cartridge will be flying neither straight nor far. Oh well, the "rule of cool" overrides other petty concerns like "plausibility" or "adherence to physical laws" in the MGS universe.--Mazryonh 22:20, 5 August 2011 (CDT)

I'll have to check when I'm getting the screencaps, but I'd imagine they're probably DshK rounds, since you don't see any other weapons around Grozny Grad that use belted ammo. Also, come on, this is a man who can also punch a hole in a concrete wall and has electrical powers for absolutely no reason. He probably has magic invisible electro-barrels which he created through the sheer power of his bastardry. Evil Tim 02:32, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

lol, that's what I was thinking when I play through the game. :D If I remember right they might have been belts of 7.62x54mmR or 7.62x39mm rounds, the bullets looked too small to be .50 cals but that's just what I remember. :\ - Mr. Wolf 14:52, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Yep, the only way it could ever work is if he carried small gun barrels between his fingers and inserted the rounds manually into those barrels before electrically triggering them. Even with that, he'd only get three shots per hand at most (not the long bursts he fires in his boss fight), he'd have to take a long time manually reinserting those rounds into those short barrels (unless it was something like a volley gun configuration arranged in a straight "W" pattern and he used something like straight moon clips to hold the rounds together during insertion), and he'd have to deal with the issues of incredible muzzle blast and flash, along with the drawbacks of very short rifling. Still, I hope you'll include shots of Volgin firing those rounds from his hands, as well as the scene when Volgin meets his end when all the ammunition in his belts cooks off.--Mazryonh 14:31, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I'll probably just put it down as "Volgin's hands" as a trivia note, a bit like the guy's hand in Shoot 'Em Up. And the rounds cooking off is the one time it's right, because even if it wouldn't fire the bullets, I can't see that not killing him. Of course, I can't see being struck by lightning not killing him either, but then we're talking about Volgin here. He's a large part of the reason this is my favourite game in the series, he's just so happy being evil and ridiculous. Evil Tim 02:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Love this game too mate. Frankly, I love all four of the Solid games. :D - Mr. Wolf

Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge

Now, he carries the round that caused a stovepipe on him in the first encounter with Snake all the way through the game up until the final showdown: my question is, what is that thing around the cartridge? He's able to make a 9x18 Makarov fire using a Colt Single Action Army in the final showdown. What are the *realistic* consequences of trying to fire a 9x18 Mak in a .45 Long Colt chambered firearm? -- Long Fallen 23:57, 12 January 2012 (CST)

Since the rim of a 9x18mm Makarov is narrower than the neck of a .45 Long Colt, the consequence would be it would be kinda rattling around inside the cylinder and that it wouldn't be held in place for the hammer to strike the primer. Also spinning the cylinder would provide a fair chance of the nose of the Makarov round sliding foward and making it stick. Unless the "thing" is him having re-seated the bullet (or the entire round) inside a .45 LC case (in which case accuracy and muzzle velocity would both stink since the bullet wouldn't be as wide as the barrel, to the point you might not even kill someone at point-blank range) there's no way it would work at all. I think you're just not supposed to think about that bit too hard / at all. Evil Tim 00:06, 13 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, so it's just Kojima brand logic then, common sense alone pretty much hinted at what you explained. I just had to ask, since it's easily noticeable in the HD remake, and that the stovepiped cartridge had this whole big deal behind it. Also, no one seems to have pointed it out. Thanks :) -- Long Fallen 19:05, 13 January 2012 (CST)

The other big thing about it is that it visibly has a bullet in it even though it turns out, IIRC, to be a blank. Evil Tim 03:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

The thing around the Makarov round is called a sabot, which is made to let certain firearms fire subcaliber ammunition (which means rounds that are narrower than the barrel's diameter). If it was the proper size, then it would at least let the Makarov round sit properly inside the SAA cylinder. However, because an SAA was clearly not designed for firing in that manner (and because the sabot around Ocelot's necklace round doesn't encompass the actual bullet), it wouldn't work. Not that it matters anyway--if you play to the end of the game and pick the right gun just before the end you'll understand why. Tank guns using APFSDS rounds use sabots as well, but in this case the barrel is smoothbore and the sabot encases the tungsten/depleted uranium dart which has fins and stabilizes itself without rifling. Shotgun sabot slugs fired from rifled shotgun barrels, however, have the plastic sabot in place to protect the barrel from damage (since those slugs are often made of steel), and the sabot engages the rifling to spin-stabilize the slugs instead. --Mazryonh 07:46, 14 January 2012 (CST)

No, a sabot would go around the bullet, not around the case. Evil Tim 08:40, 14 January 2012 (CST)

Even though I'm normally a stickler for detail, am I the only one who thinks this is a rather small complaint to make of a series with bipedal nuclear death tanks and portable cloaking devices? It's a shame this entry pre-dates the development of Nanomachines in story, otherwise we could just blame them, since they seem to be behind everything else.

I also need to work on my sarcasm, because that was too blunt. The Wierd It 06:53, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Being able to build a walking tank doesn't mean a 9mm bullet will sit well in a 12mm hole. Evil Tim 07:23, 16 January 2012 (CST)

It's not the only problem; given what happens later with that bullet, I'm surprised it looks so . . . conventional? --Mazryonh 08:39, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Unless he started carrying a .45LC bullet and hoped everyone would just assume it was the 9x18mm one? That and the devs just got lazy. The Wierd It 12:09, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Still not a patch on how confusing and strange Snake and Sokolov's "Shagohod" conversation is if you remember they're both speaking in Russian the whole time:

• Sokolov praises Snake's Russian.
• Sokolov, speaking in English, representing Russian, then says "Shagohod" in Russian. Snake doesn't know it's a proper noun, yet hears it like it's a name.
• Snake also doesn't know what it means.
• Without changing languages, Sokolov explains it means "The Treading Behemoth." (a) No it doesn't and (b) if it did, since he's still speaking in Russian, he just told Snake "Shagohod means Shagohod."

The translation is very silly about this, like Granin being the only Russian with a Russian accent. So, um, does that mean he's actually speaking Russian with a broad Texan accent or something? Evil Tim 07:45, 22 January 2012 (CST)