Norinco Type 54/questionable conversation

Cool, I have a Type 54. Frame mounted safety, 9mm clearly marked Norinco (will take pictures if you wany). I may have missed some SKSs in Platoon, feel free to add them to the page. I hope you guys don't see me as that guy you always have to correct. His use of the word "especially" makes it sound like I fucked up major and it needs your help big time. No biggy, just wondering. Let me know bout the Type 54. (It was found by a friend of my dad's, hidden in a construction site, so he may say no since it could be illegal but it should be okay). P.S: I could have sworn they made a MAC-9 model, but I'm assuming you'd know more. Sorry if I'm wrong -GM45

He okayed it, I'll photo edit them to make them Semi-professional looking.

Sorry I haven't got the pictures done yet, I've been pretty busy. Expect them some time this week.-GM

Back for a bit

Nice to see you're back on the site! Hope you've seen some of GunMaster45's recent work (especially on Heartbreak Ridge and Platoon.) Anyway, I'm curious...do you by chance have a Chinese Type 54 copy of a Tokarev in your company's inventory? I ask only because I've seen those in quite a few movies, and I figure we should have a picture of one for this site. Also, I thought that only Chinese Tokarevs have the frame-mounted safety? I have little experience with them, but I thought I remembered reading that...please educate me if I'm wrong!

Yes, GunMaster45 did good work on the Heartbreak Ridge page. He put on screen caps proving that there were slab side M16s as well as A1s, so that I didn't have to do it. :) I still think that some of the screen shots he attributed to Chinese AKs in Platoon are in fact SKS rifles. But I will have to do a detailed scan of Platoon to verify that the rifles that I think are SKS rifles are indeed SKSs. Hope he doesn't get annoyed, but I noted some errors in the MAC-10 page. I will also be posting pics of the MAC-10 in 9mm and also closeups of the Sten vs MAC-10/9 mags to clarify my remarks. But I will correct ANY error that I see, and of course, I tend to get a little testy when MY stuff is deleted or changed ... hahahaha. I just get high strung because I deal with crazy people every day. I'm in a bad mood now because JOSH BROLIN, you know, that oscar nominated actor dude, just fucked up one of my handguns. The trigger guard is completely bent. I mean, how the hell do you bend a trigger guard of a Police Chief Special? unless you ran over it with a truck? It's F**king amazing. I can't believe how actors or (non gun wrangler) prop persons can completely screw up GUNS in a few minutes more than the abuse of a real shooter over the span of years... And they look at me like I'm an idiot when I say "HEY!? what the hell did you do to MY gun?!?!" Sorry, gotta deal with crap every day, from folks who don't know squat about guns AND they abuse me as well ! hahahaha. Anyway, I wish I could take you to the set for just ONE day, to see the crap I gotta deal with. On another note, I am trying to get to the Battlestar Galactica set before they tear it all down. :) I will just be a visitor since it's in Canada and I'm not an authorized armorer in that country.

I don't have a Chinese Tokarev, I will try to find someone who does. Again, I hope I don't seem obnoxious, but I own 99% of these guns and have decades of experience with them. gotta apologize in advance ...hahaha ... there is always a bit of a knee jerk reaction that I get when I see info coming from any source (and that means all posters) that doesn't own or handle the firearms in question, and I have to do my best to quell that knee jerk response :) But I can always run to the gun safe, pull out the gun in question and take pictures of them. I got pics of some of the MATRIX guns so I will try to post them.

Gunmaster45

I figured that it was something to do with the foreign exchange. I had an assumption it was similair to how the Glocks are in generations, 1s being the oldest ones with the least new feattures, 2s being slightly better, and 3s being the newest. I've also seen the R models with the tactical rails and moaybe that is a 3rd gen variation as well.

It was only a thought that they could be like Glocks as that was my best guess. We should pobably find whoever labeled it P220-1 and ask him why he did that. With Glocks, the generations labeling is very simple.(I'l explain since I've tried very hard to remember all the Glocks and facts.)

1st Generation: The original models first started in production in 1983. They had a flat nose at the end of the frame, a flat handle, no decocking safety, and I believe no white night outlined sights. They had magazines built to swell when fully loaded so when in the gun, they would'nt drop out if the mag release was pressed accidentally. That is why they have thumb wells on the bottom of the grip, so you can pull it out with ease. I own a Glock 17 1st genration from 1986 and it was one of the 300th built. It has an ugly set of night sights(probably added much later) and they are adjustable. The mag swells when I put it in the gun loaded but falls out with ease when unloaded. It's a nice gun but I'd rather have a 3rd gen with original sights.
2nd Generations.: Started in the 1990, they built Glocks with a slightly more curved frame nose, finger stepping and cut notches in the back of the grip. They dropped the swelling mag idea and made mags you could drop straight out of the gun for a quick tactical reload.
3rd Generations: Started in 2000, they added tactical rails to the frame nose, finger notches for a better grip still(as if stepping wasn't enough?) and a thumb groove.

Now that the mags don't swell anymore, they make plugs to close up those thumb wells which makes sense since getting mud or other crap in there would be annoying to clean out.

As for SIG-Sauers, I've held one a long time ago and other than what I read and see, my experiance with them is poor. I'll have to go and buy a P220 and a P226 and see how they work. My dad has this encyclepedia of guns with every models of all guns made so I'll flip through that sometime. It stops at 2004 so he needs a new book.

I'll add this here because I need to tell someone. I added a beautiful stainless compensator to my M1911A1 and it is great. To install it, we had to ground down the spring cover so it would fit the comp. properly, as the guy I bought it from on Ebay says it fits all 1911s but it was built for ones with guide rods. Still got it to work well. I'll upload pictures very, very soon. The gun needs to be reblued as the slide is a WWII A1 slide and the frame is a M1911 original WWI frame from 1913. I will soon add 3 dot night sights, a stainless long type 3 holed trigger and maybe some hogue finger groove grips(but the orinal 1913 wood grips might just stay). The mainspring housing has grooves in it so it can accept a wooden stock, which I have, along with the 16in barrel, so it can all be legal and friendly. As soon as you respond, I'll post the pic here for you.

Err, maybe not, the camera isn't working right. I'll try it tommorow I guess.

Thanks for correcting the The Rock page, I was up til 7:00am screencapping and uploading the movie and my brain wasn't to full capacity. I noticed things like Goodspeeds Beretta had a somewhat smaller barrel and I was way too tired to find a stock picture for every gun so thanks for finding all of them. Finding good screenshots isn't easy. They used Berettas and Commandos so much in the movie I had over 20 screens each, so I had to drop a few. As for the Beretta 92SB, you'd think I'd notice as I'm the one who made the column of the Beretta page for it. I was tired and so distracted by the grips, I missed the trigger guard and inproperly classified it. But as long as your around to clean up after me, all should be fine. You clearly know more about the Colt Commando than me, that's for sure.

With screencapping the process is very aggravating. I play the DVD in my computer's player. I find the guns based on my memory of the best shots in the movie. I press "P" which captures the shot as a screenshot. I save it. Now after finding maybe 50+ screencaps for the whole movie, I go to my photoshop editor. I take every picture and convert the file from a BMP to a JPG. If the movie is widescreen, I crop out the black bars.(although I just started doing this.) Then I upload every single picture to the site and build the pages and links. I wish I got payed to do it, it's really very time consuming. But it is worth it for the knowledge of other people, right? Last Action Hero was the worst. I had over 100+ screens and there were 33 guns in that movie and I put them all in. The Funeral section was the hardest part as over 100 people pulled out guns and I identified what I could. The screens for that movie came out well, but the DVd's quality was about VHS and it looked terrible. Hopefully it was worth it though. -Gunmaster45

A pic and an update

Hey there. Got a few minutes. When I get a few minutes, I will be changing the several pages where we explore the different natures of guns (the US Marshals page , the M16 page and the Sahara Page). I will be clarifying the SP1 Sporter to a Colt Sporter Carbine, since I've seen both the version you posted (and the ones I have access to are actually still marked M16A1, so they were converted with a sporter TOP receiver after the fact. I am also going to take another pic of a Colt 733 that's actually marked Colt 733. My previous 733 pic turned out to be a conversion of an M16 receiver to a 733 looking gun. I am also cleaning up the Sahara page since I asked a few armorer/experts locally and they all think it's the foreign equivalent of the Romanian WASR-3 AK gun that we imported into this country. I don't know what the foreign countries called their version, but the best I can do is list it as the closest version that's verifiable in this country.

Here's a pic for you. Why am I grumpy sometimes? cuz, I am STILL looking at a rack of 24 AKMs that need cleaning. I still have to clean 17 AR-15 rifles. And the vault has all the stuff that needs either a major cleaning/refinishing or fixing. The tagged ones need replacement parts.

Now here's a pop quiz. Can you ID any of the guns in my 'to do list' vault? ;) Let me know if you can ID any of them. LOL!

File:FixerVault.jpg

click on the image for a bigger pic.

Long barreled AKs

Wow! You did it. Amazing. No, I don't know what the hell that AK is. I've never seen an underfolder Long barreled AK for sale in the U.S. So it must be an Australian/Canadian thing. I guess that's a mystery we will have to bug the foreign armorers about. Wasn't there a Canadian armorer here on IMFDB a while ago? I don't remember well. Anyway, I also hope you don't think I was too harsh re: the HEAT updates. The vast majority of IMFDB users seem to be guys who are too young to buy a handgun, and some are too young to have a driver's license. Anyway I gotta take a break and get back to some movie sets here. :) I will try to get pics of the more famous guns when I can. But my contributions will drop down until I get some more free days. Thanks again. MPM2008

Re: Your Articles

I completly understand what you mean. I'll do my best to add guns to the pages from now on. Like you said, it's a pain in the ass when there is over 30 guns but I'll do it from now on. I'lve just finished screencapping Eraser but I might wait till tommorow to upload it, its been a long day, perhaps tonight. I'll make sure to add the pictures on that one. I assume there's about 20 or so guns. Thanks for pointing that out. By the way, what is the language rules for this site, because I wrote the "F" word on the Heartbreak Rdige page and I'm not sure that's allowed. The question is right under the picture in the M16 section. I'll do my best to be more considerate to editors like you. My main goal is to make a page flawless and immune to your corrections, but so far no dice. (Although, I'm unaware whether or not you checked the Last Action Hero page because it had no correction notes. Did I do it? - Gunmaster45

re:Sahara

It's kinda strange, though...I wouldn't have figured British armorers would use civilian AK variants that were essentially geared towards the U.S. firearms market.

re: British armorers, I've never met Sascha Robey. All I know is that Robey did the guns for the American TV Miniseries "The path to 9/11" but only the sequences shot in Morocco.

A lot of armorers are just the 'licensed experts' on the set. They subrent their guns from large armories. That's why I don't have screen credit for many majors I worked on, since I wasn't the on set armorer, I just rented them the guns (like any vendor) and we only rent to armorers (aka weapons wranglers) that we know and trust. I think Robey got the guns from Bapty's movie armory of London (just an educated guess).

When I was going to school at Cambridge University (a long time ago) I did get to visit Bapty's Armory (got to see a lot of the guns used in all those movies shot at all those BIG British Studio stages - like the 007 movies). Well the Romak 223 is the import name for the 'castrated' gun that our lovely BATFE allows to be imported. The romanians made a bunch of identical guns for sale to other countries where civilians can own semiautomatic rifles. I noticed that Zahn's gun had (a) a threaded front end of the barrel and (b) a bayonet lug, which usually imported guns after 1990 had to have removed. So it's probably a Romanian export gun that the British armorers picked up that has not been modified to be imported into the U.S. Sigh.... to be able to get such unaltered guns again. Now we have a bunch of US makers upgrading and making their own AKs, but I like the 'appeal' of getting stuff that's really FOREIGN and foreign built in a factory in a far off land. Even though the lowly British law abiding citizen can't own Squat, their movie armorers can get almost anything they need. UNLIKE the U.S. (especially California) which makes it more difficult to be a movie armorer every year.

BTW: I uploaded a detail shot of the Type 84 with the features I was talking about. I hope it helps.

best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Sahara

Thanks for the help on the typo with the Norinco Type 56-1. As you probably know by the time stamps I edited that at 2:00 am PST and was pretty tired. Thanks for catching stuff like that.

But Zahn's gun is not the Type 84 despite the fact that the gas tube has vent holes like the Type 65/84 guns. The Type 84 is a deep blued finish, this gun has the semi gloss black paint finish of European AKs, the Magazine is NOT a Type 84 (not even close), but it does resemble the newer Romanian Romak 223 magazines (thus my question), and the front sight is an open top European AKM style, not the hooded .75" spaced Type 84 Front sight and finally the gas block is missing a notch that the Type 84 has and it looks lke the front sight sling is attached to the front of the handguards (AKM) and not on the gas block (Type 84). I looked at a Type 84 before I posted the pics, so I am sure that it is NOT a type 84, there are too many differences that an armorer just wouldn't do (like repainting a blued gun or replacing the front sight or using a magazine that I am not sure would even fit in the magazine well). In fact if they did replace the Type 84 front sight block with an AKM sight, you would be able to see the notch in the top of the barrel of the second pin for the wider front sight. It would be visible. The smaller AKM sight doesn't cover it on the barrel. So again I will try to figure out what type of AK it is. Since Sahara is a newer movie it would well be a recent US built or US part upgraded imported AK rifle.

ON another note:

So what do you think of the screen caps? I purposely kept the Zahn pics big temporarily so the details of the gun could be seen. But i've noticed that whenever I work hard on a largely ignored page, THEN people start tweaking it, after I've put in hours working on it and before I'm finished :) what's up with that? Just the way things work I guess. :)

(But YOUR input is always welcome. I haven't shot any new gun pics yet. I usually wait until I have several dozen items to photograph before I go through the trouble of setting up a white background). Best regards MPM2008

Thanks for the help

Thanks for helping out on some of my articles, specifically The Siege and Star Trek: Voyager. I just recently got the ability to take screenshots from DVD's on my computer, but don't have either of those. Keep up the good work. Orca1 9904 20:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Guns in The Siege

You actually got a picture of the Browning M2 in one of your M60 screenshots, namely the one where it's being fired during the Redhook chop shop scene. As for the M203, look closely at one of the soldiers keeping the press mob out of the stadium. Also, don't forget the H&K MP5's during the bus hijacking/bombing scene. Orca1 9904 21:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Here's the screenshot in question; the barrel is definitely too long to be a Mk 19 grenade launcher. Note that it also lacks the muzzle brake as well.

File:Vlcsnap-182525.jpg

Orca1 9904 21:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Good to have you back. :)

Backups are automatic and daily now - 4 am every day and automatically uploaded to seperate servers for archival. :)

You can't merge a page - but you can copy all the content from one to another and then drop a line to an admin to redirect the old page to the new one. WikiSysop 03:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I've redirected the pages you requested. WikiSysop 14:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

hello

Hi there. Just thought I'd seek to clarify the Red Dawn discussion, per your suggestion.

The MISR may have been the Egyptian's name for the gun in their factories overseas (several books refer to it, Clinton Ezell's book mentions it in 1986), but my point was that the Egyptians never marked or called their export gun to the U.S. - the MISR. In fact the only MISR guns that were legally imported into the U.S. (marked MISR) were after 1990 and they were 'post ban' guns, hastily hand 'etched' with the words "MISR" on the trunion.

I was probably nit picking since I don't know if alot of people really cared which import version was used in what movie. I wouldn't really care, BUT ... when people say MISR, everyone here in the states, automatically thinks of the post 1990 thumbhole monstrosities, not the better crafted ARMs of the early 1980s. I know for a fact that Syd Stembridge (who worked on Red Dawn and I spoke to about it) scoffed and thought of the crappy 'post ban MISR rifles' when I mentioned it to him. He said "Nope, we used ARMs not MISRs". So even he was thinking about the MISR imported gun. Hmmmmm.

Does it matter? I don't know. I'm tempted to edit out the discussion entirely, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps a note addressing what the imported versions actually had stamped on them (and had written in their owners manuals). What do you think?

A little bit of my background: :)

I was buying Maadi rifles back in 1983 (before Red Dawn came out). Thus I remember what they were called at the time. At no time had I ever seen the rifles referred to a MISR back in 1984 or earlier. Sales brochures, invoices, company documentation. That's really the only reason I was convinced that Maadi did not ship guns to US under that name.

I own nearly every variant of AK imported into this country prior to 1999. That includes ARMs, RPLs, MISRs, AKS-47, Type 84s, Type 56 Sporters, MAK-90s, SA-85s, Yugo M76s, etc. etc.

Any way. You've done a GREAT job updating and posting things. I don't want to give the impression that I don't realize that you're a super contributor.

Any way, keep up the fantastic work. :) and looking forward to your thoughts re: the re-edit of the page.

best regards MoviePropMaster2008

I am re-editing Red Dawn

It just hit me. I can cut out all my rantings and just put in a note, that the MISR rifle is not referring to the post ban imported version call the 'MISR' and was imported under the name ARM. If that's okay, I'll cut out all the stuff under your original paragraph. Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008

Type 84

No problem. I will be happy to hunt down the Type 84 (the vault is big and kinda a pain to go through) ;) . I converted a bunch to AK74 though (i.e. put on the imported Russian parts and gas tubes, front sights, etc. to make them 'look' like AK74s. But I might have one left that is not all messed up. I don't believe that I have any left that retain the original Chinese 'fully enclosed' sight hood any more, unfortunately. Will this do? I can also put the original factory wood back on for the photo. Do you want it in original factory configuration? I can also put it into the SAME config as any of the movie or projects you want it for (i.e. put hungarian Blonde wood on them, etc.). Just let me know. It might take some time, though. I have to set up the photographic white table top setup all over again and will probably wait until I have a bunch of guns to photograph before I do it again. best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Incredible Hulk Grenade Launchers

I was under the impression the multi-shot grenade launchers in The Incredible Hulk were some sort of Milkor MGL derivative, like the M32? Orca1 9904 22:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

My two cents on the Hulk Launchers

It looks like the back end of a Def tech 37mm launcher but the front end of a M32. Also the cylinder (and rotator mechanism) doesn't look like anything out there. It's too short to be the DEFTECH but the rotator gear is in the back, not the front, like it should be on the M32. The Milkors have a 'pop up' back end and the style of the buttstock looks completely different. I think it's a "Frankenstein gun" - perhaps the prop dept. took several Deftech 37mm launchers and chopped and styled them to resemble the M32. Check out the comparison pic and let me know what you think. :) Best regards MoviePropMaster2008| (P.S. - I don't hang out with the armorers in Canada being that we never cross paths. I wish I could so that I could ask them).

File:Hulk-Launcher-Comparison1.jpg

I'll send you a pic of that very launcher from the shop.

Your CZ99 pic

I cleaned up your CZ99 pic in Photoshop. It's the same pic, but color corrected. Can I repost it? Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008

Editing Dogs of War

I am thinking of doing some more updates on Dogs of War, hope you don't mind. ;) GOOD CALL! on the "imitation" Uzis in "Raw Deal" and "Stripes". In Stripes I thought you were talking about "Winger" (Bill Murray) but he was holding an unadorned MAC-10, but you were right, it was Joe Flaherty as the Czech border guard who had the "uzi cover" on the MAC-10. You have an eagle eye! Most people would have missed that one! Those guns were 'conversions' made by Special Effects Unlimited, Inc. in the 1970s. The company did mostly pyrotechnics (Stembridge, Ellis Mercantile and ISS were the kings of 'just guns' back then) and in the movie Dogs of War, they simply didn't have enough real Uzis. (In the 1970s it was pretty hard to get real uzis, IMI just wasn't importing them in big numbers. The import explosion came during the 1980s. Movies like Uncommon Valor, Red Dawn, Rambo, Commando, Death Wish 2-5, etc. all fueled an "action movie flood" that also included all of the really crappy GOLAN&GLOBUS movies like the post apocalyptic movies or the Chuck Norris Movies. Special Effects Unlimited went away in the early 1980s. When I got into the biz, there were about 30 movie gun rental houses and hundreds of trained wranglers in California. Now there are about five rental houses, with less than a dozen independent wranglers. Thanks to the draconian gun control that California shoves down our throat every year. No wonder the movies are all filming in Canada or Australia. Their armorers don't have the BS that we have to deal with. :(

One of the interesting things is the 'work arounds' that movie armorers do. We don't have access to every gun or destructive device that comes down the pipe in the real world. A lot of times the stuff just isn't available when a movie is being made, so we have to 'fake it'. I remember having to 'fake' the Steyr TMP out of a Cobray M11 because the TMP had just come out and the film's director 'just had to have it', but it wasn't being imported into this country yet. I had a model builder mold a dummy and then cast it as two halves of a clamshel mold and screwed it on to the M11. hahahaha.

You and some of the other guys have done a great job on that page!!! I love the screen caps, if I knew how, I'd do it too :D I don't know if my 'overabundance of information' on the background of a movie is either 'wanted' or 'necessary'. Feel free to edit if my info seems irrelevant, but I always try to 'keep it short' :) I think I can photograph some of the actual guns from DOGS of War, unfortunately they've been refinished, some have been altered. I'll drop a note when I get to take the pics and post them. :)

MoviePropMaster2008

Raw Deal page and other thoughts

You have to put up the Raw Deal page(!!) I was going to do it, but you have all the cool screencaps! :)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Note that from this angle, the barrel is obviously a thin metal tube (just enough to extend the MAC-10 barrel). It's not thick enough to be a 9mm or .45 acp barrel. Great screencap! :) BTW: those were 9mm MAC-10s not the .45 acp MAC-10s. The nines were easier to blank adapt, and the blanks had that nice hot white flash in front. They look identical, except for the markings on the receiver.

I'm holding off putting the AKM shot in the Red Dawn Page. I'm still looking for one with an original Laminated buttstock. I'm positive I can take a pic of an 'undamaged' one. Thanks again for your input. :) It's been a little slow in the biz, but next week I might be getting some gigs, and in July I'm traveling on some projects so I will be gone. best regards MoviePropMaster2008

Type 56

(Warning: this is from my own recollection and not official in any way) :)

Hmmm. it's a tough one. Since there is no 'official' designation it's hard to figure. And what always throws me is the 'official name' of the gun around the world and the 'official imported' name of the gun when it was sold here in the United States. Since this is a 'guns in the movies' site, I usually throw out the book on the 'official international nomenclature of the guns as used by foreign armies' and noting what the guns were called when movie weapons armorers were bringing them to the movie set. But the trend on the site, so far, has been to list the guns as what it's supposed to be representing (like calling obvious AR-15s, "M16s") in the real world. I just like to have some sort of footnote as to what weapons were actually used and what they were really called. :)

I've always regarded the 56 as a 47 offshoot. I don't think the other armorers have given it much thought, but I know that they'll always refer back to the AK47, not the AKM when anyone asks them what the Type 56 is based on.

I'll list my criterion and let me know what you think.

Now we all know that the Chinese barrels are slightly different in diameter to all the European barrels but for the most part, the Chinese Type 56 parts are clones of the 47 not the AKM.

1) The Chinese started their Type 56 copy with milled receivers. Around the 1960s the Soviets changed to stamped receivers in the 'modernized' AKM. The Chinese thought that was a good idea, and began production with stamped receivers, but everything else remained the same.

(a) the front sight (.75" versus .5" width for the AKM)

(b) the gas block (the angle AND the fact that it is not "notched" for gas release like the AKM)

(c) the Gas tube (the AK47s have vent holes, the AKMs do not)

(d) the Gas tubes are NOT interchangeable between the AKM and the AK47/Type 56 (I've tried, the angle of the back of the gas tube is different)

(e) the pin placement in the receiver itself (the AK47 and the AKM have different pin placements)

(f) the smooth versus ribbed dust cover

(g) the wood furniture (the AK47 & Type 56 have smooth side crate wood - the AKM has bulged grip laminated - the buttstocks have a different comb and are different types of wood)

(h) other than the wood for the gas tube and the pistol grip, the wood forearm and buttstock are NOT interchangeable between the AK47/56 and the AKM - you need to 'fit' the wood with a rasp and file.

(i) in the underfolder stock versions the stocks of the Type 56 & AK47 are interchangeable, you need to modify them slightly to fit the AKM underfolder. Also the Underfolder 'arms' of the AK47/56 are smooth, the AKM underfolder arms are 'ribbed'.

(j) the pistol grips for the 47/56 were wooden with a metal border near the receiver, the AKMs were all composite or plastic grips. This doesn't take into account the dealers or importers who may have swapped grips on their own, I'm just talking about the way they were exported off the factory floor.

(k) I don't know if this is official or not, but I've personally tried to swap the bolts from AK47s/Type 56s and AKMs and the AKMs 'stick' when put into the 47/56 guns. The gun doesn't cycle (and it's probably not all that safe 'headspace' wise (hahaha), but it's a lot safer when all you're shooting is blanks.....). It could be the bolt carrier and piston assembly, but I've noticed that as well.

This is only based on my personal experience, but I'll bet that no one else on the board is as dopey as me and has tried to swap parts between an AKM and a Type 56 and wondered what went wrong ;) hahaha I DO know that we've fixed broken Chinese guns (from the 1980s) with original Soviet AK47 parts kits and the other cosmetic parts did fit (though we had to take into account the slight size difference between the Chinese barrels and all other AKs).

So in my thinking, the only difference between the Type 56 and the AK47 (other than the obvious Chinese 'style flourishes') is the stamped receiver. Since the AKM instituted a lot more other changes than just a stamped receiver I just consider the Chinese Type 56 series to be a stamped receiver version of the AK47, not the AKM. All the details other than the receiver are "AK47".

Also there is the confusion of how the imported guns were stamped. ALOT of the imported Chinese guns armorers bought in the 1980s were marked "AK47", not AKM. I have samples of Norinco AK type rifles in the 1980s, imported by B-West that are marked either: Type 56, Type 56S, Type 56 Sporter, Sporter 56, AK-47, AKS-47, AKS Sporter, AKS-47 Sporter. The vast majority of guns were indeed stamped AK-47 or AKS-47. (I can take a pic of the marks on the receivers to send to you). So many of the imported Chinese guns were marked AK-47/AKS-47 (as a marketing ploy by the manufacturer since they doubted that most of the American buying public would have any idea what a Type 56 was).

footnote: Only after the import ban of 1989 did we see names like the MAK-90, the NHM-90/91, et. al, those were the first 'thumbhole monstrosities' to enter the country from China.

Since those of us who were buying the guns never referred to them as an offshoot of the AKM, but of the AK47, thats how I've always viewed them. But there is no hard and solid rule. The Chinese guns are their own 'platypus' hybrid.

That's just my 'reasoning' on it, but again, since the Chinese guns are 'hybrids' it doesn't really matter. As long as the rifle types are listed 'SOMEWHERE' on the site, with notations as to what movies they were used in. As has been noted by others, the Chinese guns are by and far the most COMMON AK type to be seen in TV and movies bar none. They were the most plentiful and cheap when they first came out. I know of a prop house in L.A. that was trying to sell of over 400 of them, because they were going out of business (owner died, sons didn't want to continue the family biz).

Again, sorry for my long post. Again, I sometimes wonder, 'when is too much information too much?" I don't want to confuse the users of the site, but the reality is really complex. :) Now don't get me started on the massive 'periodic chart' known as the 'Smith & Wesson Handgun naming chart'.... yeow!!!!

I sure hope it was in some way helpful and informative. :)

re: Type 56

Yes, no offense please! :) hahahaha I figured you already knew all the details, but I had to list them just to make sure that I remembered all of the points which brought me to my original conclusion. :) I also remembered the problems of trying to swap the pieces in the past and the total headaches they caused! Hahahaha.

RE: the new page for just Chinese guns - FANTASTIC idea! I didn't think of that myself and would have pretty much yielded to whatever categorization that you thought best, but that's a great solution. Are there any SysOps or other super contributors we need to check with? so that they don't start undoing the page?

On another note: I will try to take a pic of an unadorned Type 84 by late Thursday night. Is there any other weapon that is not properly represented on this site that I could try to track down and photograph?

Again, always a PLEASURE to discuss stuff with you. And I'll yield to what you think is best. :) best regards MoviePropMaster2008

New Images

Sorry about the delay in the Type 84 pics, but I can't seem to locate the .223 steel magazines. It doesn't look right without it. I will continue to hunt for the correct magazines and get the pic. I just went to the vault and photographed a BUNCH of new stuff. I am also using the pics for marketing purposes, i.e. so that I can email art directors and producers/directors my own images so that they know what the gun looks like, but I am trying to get IMFDB a bunch of ORIGINAL pics found no where else. :) No airsoft guns here. :) All real deal. More to come.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

FN Mag 58

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

M249 Paratrooper model

‎

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

MAC-10

‎‎

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Ruger MP9 stock extended

‎

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Ruger MP9

Updates

cc'd to: MT2008, Orca1 9904, Charon68 and others... :) I've been trying to get higher rez original pics to IMFDB for a little bit now. One of the major beefs I have with site like Security arms.org or Guns of the world.ru is that there are some really crappy pics, and lots of those pics are weird hybrid variations that are not good representations of the mainstream version of the firearm. Though I've had some nice comments from a few folks, I need to verify that it's kosher to try to eliminate the bad resolution 'stolen from the net' pics and replace them with original photographs. (granted permission by me the copyright holder) Don't know if I am stepping on anyone's toes or if anyone would be offended that I replaced their image (which was 'borrowed' from the net originally) with another image. If anyone thinks I should NOT be replacing pics on existing pages with new gun images, please let me know. Do the majority of IMFDB users even care? I'm fully expecting other sites to start stealing images from IMFDB when the level of pics goes up. :) hahahaha.

Zastava

I just did it because the Ak page was just getting too huge, and so many Chinese Aks were being used in films to "portray" Russian AKs that it made sense to put the Chinese guns in there. The QBZ-97 is just bullpup versions of AKs but it gets its own page. The Yugo AKs are really different from the other AKs, not as much as the Czech VZ58 which is an entirely different firearm. I know folks want to keep items to one page with a lot of variants, but I thought the entire series of Yugoslavian guns (all the way from the M70 to the M92 and their RPK variants) deserved their own page. You never see the Yugoslavian guns 'masquerading' as Russian or Chinese guns. They are always seen as weapons from the Balkans or Bosnian conflict. Of course the powers that be can always slam me down ;) But I figured it was worth a shot. :)

Let me know what you think. :)

BTW: on another note, I was going to suggest to the senior staff that pages like the KVAR's bullpup kit for the AK (as seen on the gun page Century Arms AK-47 bullpup doesn't merit a different page since it is just a commercial after market stock kit that goes on any AK and itself is not a weapon itself. The same goes for the Muzzelite MZ14 Bullpup ... there is no such thing as a Muzzelite MZ14. It is a plastic aftermarket bullpup stock kit that can go on either a Mini14, a 10-22 or a Marlin Camp 9 carbine. It has only ever been seen in movies with a Mini-14 inside. It does not merit a separate page since it is not a real gun, but a stock kit for an existing gun (i.e. the Mini-14). Curious to know what you think of that as well. :) Always good to hear your input.

Re: Lord of War

I believe the 400px size is just fine for screenshots, as it's usually big enough to give a good view of what's being shown in the image, and you can always click on the image to view it larger if you want. You don't see full-size images posted in articles on Wikipedia, after all. Orca1 9904 19:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

Hey

Hey MT2008, I'm Alienqueen11, I seen your comment on my talk page about the most guns in movies like District B13, and I would like to wish you good luck with your Hard Boiled and beating the records for most guns. I work on this site myself once in awhile, the reason you don't see me much on here is because I'm not as active on this site as I used to be, but I still like to do some screencappping once in awhile. I also want to say you take good screenshots and make great pages, so keep up the good work. Also, are you going to do Belly and Boyz n the Hood again? not that I'm trying to rush you to do them, I'm just wondering. And again keep up the good work. Alienqueen11

Hey again

Hey, no problem, and good luck with everything. Good work on cleaning up the Beretta page, it looks much better. Also, you said you like Taurus PT92s, right? Well, I uploaded a screenshot with a very nice looking one for the Shooter page a week or two ago if you want to check it out. Alienqueen11

Yep, I'm one of moderators, as well as Orca, who I'm sure you met already. if you have any problems with anybody vandalizing or spamming your pages, or anything on this site, just let me know. Alienqueen11

To space out pages, I notice some people just space out the variants as much as they need to until they get the desired effect, it's worth a try. Thanks for complimenting Shooter by the way, I myself like the Berettas, I always liked the way they look. And about the M1911A1 page, yeah, that page does need work, especially with all those variants that nothing listed for them. Anyway, good luck with the pages, and I'll be sure to help out as much as I can. Alienqueen11

Question

Hi MT2008, I was just reading over your profile (because I like to know those I work with) and I noticed the M1911/M1911A1 isn't to be found on your favorite guns page. I'm not trying to preach it to you or anything, but I practically worship the handgun. John M. Browning, possibley the most ingenius gunmaker of all time, pretty much birthed the conventional self-loading pistol. This pistol was so good, it still stayed in US service up until Desert Storm, when the M9 took over (not exactly a loved desision today). Keep in mind, the blowback locking breach action of Browning's 1911 has been used in glocks, USPs, Berettas, and many other handguns today. You can say it is really the grandfather of all handguns. Yet it can't truly be beaten in basic design. His idea was so good, it still is unbeaten today 97 years later. It's simple, reliable, versatile, accurate, powerful, and it hold 7 shots... my lucky number. And capacity isn't a problem with the Para-Ordinance models anymore. Whoops, this strayed from being a question. Like I said, I don't mean to preach, but I just thought I'd let you know. (Plus, Browning thought up that frame mounted slide stop safety you like so much on the PT92.) As always, I like your work and your a great contributor to the site. Keep up the good work, and take in mind what I said. (Note how I wrote an essay on the .45 on the page. All that from well remembered memory. Double checked of course.) Gunmaster45

U.S. Marshals Screenshot Needed

Hello, I was wondering if you could help me with something? I noticed that you got most of the screenshots for U.S. Marshals, and I was wondering if you could get one of Robert Downey Jr. from it, possibly with him using his Taurus PT945 or Glock 22 for the article on that actor? It would be greatly appreciated.

Orca1 9904 06:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Photo request for SIGP226

Funny that you'd ask. I tried swapping them in the past. They don't fit. They're the same guns, but the finishes throw the tolerances all off. I can't get a silver slide to even FIT onto a standard black frame and vice versa. I may be able to FORCE it, but the gun won't be fireable. Any two toned guns you see, were either fixed and fitted by a really good gunsmith or were finished by the factory. But it's impossible to swap slides and frames on those guns if they're of different finishes.

MT2008's question re: Colt Launchers

Though I may be wrong, I have not heard of a COLT manufactured 37mm launcher. They may have made one, but it is not well known and I can't find any independent verification of it but then I haven't scrutinized all products made by Colt. The photos on the page show a 37mm launcher, but I can't see any Colt markings. These look like the ones that were made by RPB/SWD and of course Cobray as far as I know. Also I know for a fact that 99.99% of the M203 launchers seen in movies are COBRAY manufactured CM203 37mm launchers. Sometimes we pull out the REAL destructive Device M203 (I have access to several) when a film specifically asked for one where they can see more details (the real M203 is a rifled barrel, the 37mm flare launcher is a smooth bore, amongst other differences) but most of them are Cobray 37mm launchers. I will of course yield if I can be pointed to an independent info source or web page that specifically confirms a COLT marked 37mm launcher but right now, I can definitely tell you that all of the 'fake 40mm launchers" I've seen on movie/television sets are Cobray or RPB or SWD manufactured 37mm launchers. I'm pretty sure anything built by Colt would have the Colt logo stamped on the item. If you verify any info on Colts, please pass it along :) Sigh. On another note, I guess I will have to photograph my M203s in detail for this site as well. MPM2008

(Edit), Well I've been looking for a while and even checked the full listings of weapons currently manufactured and distributed by Colt Inc, Colt LLC or any of the other possible names for COLT. As far as I know, Colt does NOT make 37mm Launchers. Why should they? They make the 40mm Launchers. I've done a google search and as far as 30 pages in, I've never found ONE reference to a 37mm launcher that was not a Cobray/SWD/RPB manufacture or the M203 Airsoft model (which some gun writers, or sellers wrongly confuse with a flare launcher.)

I am in support of eliminating the Colt Flare Launcher page, since I can find no evidence to support it. Please reply and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Hope you don't think I'm badgering you. Just trying to be thorough. :) re: research into the CFL page. Anyway, I really gotta run now, I got tons of weapons to organize and deal with.... and people are waiting for me. :) Thanks again. MPM2008

Reply

About the Mossberg 500s, I believe a cruiser comes standard on the gun, os they are most likely 500s with pistol grips or they had the heat shields removed.

More pics

Hope you like the new pics. I've been going NUTS photographing M16s hahahahaha and I finally uploaded the M14 pics that Gunmaster Requested :) Hey, I even got a Diemaco C7 ! ;) I will try to get a shot of THAT. :) I can only do a few weapons a day since it takes longer than expected to photograph them. I did finally get to photograph my Remington PSS 700. I hope to do the Type 84 sometime soon, but I have to tear some of them down to original configuration and that takes some time. I want to get better M4 Pics and M4 with accessories. I am also going to photograph more of my FALS and G3 variants when I get the chance. And I will try to figure out a way to do your P226 shots. :) Best regards MoviePropMaster2008.

XM177

Some good news. I now have Every variant of the original XM177s. It took a while since so many of them were in 'pieces'. Including at least three variations of the 'fake' XM177s that we see in movies like Blood Diamond. I am really looking forward to posting good shots of all the XM177 guns. I think that IMFDB is the only place on the web that will have these pics. I may have to get an airsoft gun just to show the difference, since so many of the shots here on IMFDB are airsoft guns (ugh!). MPM2008 (Edit: Damned IMFDB logged me out in the middle of my post to you! Weird). Well It's really ME typing this, not some unknown IP address.)

Re: Beretta

Thanks for the correction, the 92 FS thing was from the other articles I copied and pasted from to get things done faster, but I'll be sure to use the correct spelling for now on. And thanks for uploading the Beretta used in the film, it's very cool. Also, what do you think of Die Hard with a Vengence now? --Alienqueen11 22:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There you go, I uploaded the scene you talked about and noted that they were really BB guns, let me know if the screencap is good enough--Alienqueen11 23:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

RE:Dirty Harry

That's what I meant by in full, by actually screencapping the movie 100% second by second. I never understood why people would screencap half a page and then stop, is it lazyness or something? I always go second by second through a movie and grab as many good shots as possible. To me, you can never have too many shots of one gun, as my 15 AKM shots in Rambo II will show soon. I also had plans to eventually add some shots to Saving Private Ryan like how I added shots to BB2 and Black Hawk down just to make it more full and maybe tears of the sun. I'm kinda sick today but I'll try to get Rambo II uploaded as soon as I can.

Re: Your comment on the Rambo II HK93

Though that is a reasonable assumption, there is no evidence that the gun was a 93. When I was at the Stembridge gun room in the 1980s I distinctly recall that there were as many HK33s as there were HK93s. I know, nowadays, that seems weird, but not so weird when we could import anything we wanted back in the day.... Thanks. The guns which were TONS of conversions were the MP5s (originallyi HK94s), AR15s into M16s and ARMs/Type 56s into full auto AKs. Just noting ... BTW: Now that I submitted a shot of my HK33, I'm photographing my HK93. Sure hope folks (other than you :) ) appreciate all the original gun pics .... hahaha. best regards, MPM2008

Finally put the MP5A5 in

That's been bugging me for a long time. The MP5A5 picture wasn't even an A5. Finally got the correct pic in. :) Am staring at a rack of shotguns that I have to photograph for the site, but gotta get to it. :)

Saving Private Ryan

What do you think of the new and improved Saving Private Ryan page? -GM45

Thanks, I can't stand watching the debates but I thought I'd share how I own an M1 Garand myself. A battle hardened Garand that served in WWII and was then Re-Issued in Korea. It is fitted with the Korea era sling. And the best part. Only $600 bucks! I had a WWII guns phase and me and my father did a lot of searching. Still wish I could get an M1A1 Thompson and a B.A.R. Too hard to get cheap and legal though. -GM

I also have two clips for it in my room, one of which is load with dummy rounds so I can cycle it. Most people think the clip pings when it hits the ground but it pings as it leaves the gun. Also, the little button on the left side allows you to do what some rocking chair commandos say is immpossible. RELOAD. Pull the bolt back and press it and the clip pops out no matter how loaded it is. I can also field strip it and clean it. It shoots nice too.

And on the A-Team page, I sent a message to Bunni on how only registered users should be able to edit the site. Unregistered users should only view. It would make all our lives a lot easier, don't you think? I'll fix it now.

Garand Pics

My M1 rifle:

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

M1 Garand rifle with En-Bloc clip, loaded with dummy rounds.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

The gun is too long for one clear shot! This is the barrel end, note '50s era Korean war sling.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

The En-bloc clip loaded half way in the Garand.

Pretty cool, huh? I'm gonna upload more on my page so everyone can see my neat stuff.

FINALLY! :)

Now I can get rid of THIS abomination which is an airsoft gun taken from a UK airsoft site. It looks like crap.

File:GP-SG-GP300-1-.jpg

I got several types of police 870 shotguns, including Sarah Connor's high cap tube version, but I will get to that later.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Thanks for the positive comments on the pics. I will try my best to get to everyone's requests. But it's cool that IMFDB will have pics that no other gun site will have.

Ask and Ye shall Receive

This is the best I can do. My Sigs aren't exactly the same as some of the movie guns by other armorers. They ARE blank adapted movie guns and they ARE well worn, due to abuse by actors and stuntmen but we all know that. :) Can you use these? You're the first one to see them. I haven't even added them to the SIG page because they're special pieces.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Two Tones part 2

Thank you SO much! Those look great, and actually, they look very close to the ones that have appeared in quite a few movies. We can start replacing the two-tone SIG pics that we have on our other pages with these immediately! Again, I greatly appreciate you doing this for me.

Here is another one. I forgot to swap out the silver hammers (based on the pic with John Travolta, so here is one. I've seen it in every configuration. Sometimes the factory does it, so there are lots of opposite color highlights (trigger, breakdown pin, safety, etc.) and then there are the simple 'swap the barrel & Slide' variety.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Two tone Sig P226 with SILVER HAMMER this time

How will I ever repay you?

Lots of booze, gold and women... ;)

Out of curiosity, since you told me that they usually don't fit, how did you make them work together? -MT2008

Oh they fit, but you have to force it and they won't cycle. The black slide SIG, when you pull the slide back (you have to pull it HARD) it won't even move forward. You have to tap it with a mallet to make it slide forward to cycle a round. Also you can fire one blank out of the gun and the slide will 'stick' back even with a full magazine. Unless the factory does it (which they do) you have to take it to a smith to 'fit' the parts. Fun Huh? MoviePropMaster2008

Casino Royale

Uh dude. you're right and that other guy is wrong. No way it's a Zastava M76. I think there is a foreign name for the WASR 3 gun (the one NOT imported into the US), but I don't know what it is. Robey can get all that stuff that good old' BATF won't allow into this country. :( Check out the flash hider, the front sight, the foregrip and the grenade launcher sight. What confuses a lot of people up is that Zastava also has a dragunov like SNIPER rifle also called the M76.

File:Zastava-M76.jpg

Zastava M76 Rifle - 5.56x45mm

XXX

The MP9 is seldom seen in the movie and the non-screenshot pic is better than the shots in the movie. She fires it eyes closed and the muzzle flash and smoke make it hard to see (in pretty much the only scene she uses it). I pretty much took what I could get. -GM45

Where Eagles Dare

Nice job so far, you've gotten a lot done very quickly. It certainly looks more filled out then it did before. It wasn't even in proper format to the site. Keep up the good work, I'll look at it more when I finish Kelly's Heroes. -GM45

Bad Boys II P226

About the Bad Boys II page, should we use the Two Tone P226 with the black hammer for the P226 section? I'm asking this because I noticed the hammer was black on Martin Lawrence's P226, it's entirely up to you because I figured you might want it to look as much like the gun in the film as possible.--Alienqueen11 19:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Need some help

Hello, I just added a few more guns in The Unit page and I need some help IDing some of them that I can't seem to put my finger on. Care to give me a hand if you can?

-Excaliber

Re:Beretta M92FS

I just started doing the honors (forgot to log in of course), And thanks for telling me if there were any differences between them. I'm going to watch Heroes for an hour now, but I'll get right back on replacing the images when I get back.--Alienqueen11 01:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Should cartoons be allowed?

I want to know if it is either no one cares about the fact that cartoons like Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and recently South Park had been allowed to this site. I have don't think these pages should exist because do you think about the rare guns that appears on those shows and wonder what they are? Cause I sure don't. I'm too busy laughing my ass off to how funny these series are, not wondering if the shotgun Homer used in the Zombie episode was a Winchester Model 1887 or that it never appeared in any other episode following. I don't care and I dont think anyone else should care. We're getting cartoon fanboys that thinks just because Family Guy has an episode where Stewie has a closet full of look alike guns, means we should write a page about them. Those guns are not the point of the show and the artist that drew them obviously didn't take much consideration for them or mention. I think Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and South Park be removed at once. None of them deserve to be on this site. And whoever puts them here doesn't respect this site enough.

New Pics

I'm also curious...what would you think of a page dedicated to explaining the importance of your gun images to new users of the site, and featuring examples of your work? It would be linked from the main page.

Don't know exactly what you mean. I know that some of the mods have had to restore some of my pics in the past when a new member replaced them with a stolen airsoft pics. As far as pointing out the movie guns, Don't know if it's important. Most of the new pictures of guns are indeed movie guns but since I can't confirm what they've been in (I suspect some of the really NICE and clean versions haven't been out at all, being that actors are idiots who break EVERYTHING they touch), I tend to just like having them here as a crisp clean photograph of the gun (and ones that only IMFDB has and no other website does). I tend to keep a low profile but only need to have the most active members (GM45, MT2008, ORCA, Alienqueen, Bunni, Excal, etc.) in the communication loop for the most part.

If you have a specific idea, let me know. :)

BTW: just came back from ANOTHER shoot. An actor who was just standing there in an open field waiting for his shot, DROPPED, my Colt M4 Carbine with RIS rails, L mount and Aimpoint sight on the ONE patch of concrete (left over from a demolished building from 1900) in an entire field of soft dirt. Literally it was 100 yards of soft dirt and grass and he manages to find the ONE patch of concrete in several acres and drops my gun on it. He cracked the knob of the L mount off the gun. This was a pristine gun and yet another actor finds a way to Fuck it all up. Figures. :(

MoviePropMaster2008

Re: Helping out with replacing pics

Thanks for helping on replacing the new pics with the old ones. Since I have limited time, I spend it mostly grabbing the guns and photographing them. A lot of the guns need to be reconfigured (custom stuff removed, classic buttstocks or flash hiders put BACK on, etc.) Hopefully other members can help with the task of updating some of the older pages. I do it when I see something but since my time is limited I'd rather spend it getting the list of request images done, rather than spending it editing other pages. Thanks.

MoviePropMaster2008

Dawn of the Dead

Hey, I just uploaded some new Dawn of the Dead (2004) screenshots, and I want to know if you can take a look at the custom Remington 870 section of the page, and help me confirm that it is an 870, I'm sure it is, but just want to make sure because MPM2008 says he's going to get a picture of a shotgun in a similar configuration eventually, and he says it appears to have Mossberg style ghost ring sights. Thanks in advance.--Alienqueen11 03:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Disregard, GM45 answered my questions.--Alienqueen11 04:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It's okay, I'm sure you would have did your best. And don't worry, I got your message on the Die Hard 2 talk page, and I promise I'll have some new MP5 shots Friday, and I'm also going to upload some new screencaps for the original Die Hard eventually, and also replace those Youtube quality shots that are on the page now. And also, do you like the new Beretta Inox shots for the Dawn of the Dead (2004) page?--Alienqueen11 22:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh yea, I saw your message on the Beretta M92F talk page, and I approve moving it to a different name since it dosen't really make sense to have it titled "Beretta M92F" when it includes 92Gs and 92SBs. Feel free to move the page whenever you're ready.--Alienqueen11 01:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it'll messed up pages with the original links (atleast I hope not) because the M1911 Series page used to be called 1911 and the Beretta M92F page used to be referred to as Beretta 92 and the links didn't react badly to the renaming back then. I'd say go for it, and if anything goes wrong I'll help fix the links.

And yeah, titles linking to gun pages irks me for the same reasons. Some user who made an account when the site was getting started created that trend, I also hate it because when new users see pages like that, they sometimes get the wrong idea on editing and making pages.

And yes, I'll be more then happy get rid of any pages you don't want. Just send me a list of them, and they'll be gone.--Alienqueen11 02:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

There you go, that should give us a little more server space. I really hate when people create duplicate pages of movies we already have on here, they can atleast check first before making a page. And that Terrorist and Top Ten Rifles pages were of no use to the site, I don't even understand why people create stupid pages like that. Well, anyway, thanks for letting me know about those pages, the site will be better off without them, if you come across anything else, just give me a call.--Alienqueen11 03:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll delete them as I come across them. Also can you do me a favor? Redirect the Shoot to kill page to a properly punctuated title, I would do it, but I don't really know how to redirect pages. Thanks in advance.--Alienqueen11 03:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Also to answer an earlier question, to check what pages or images link to a particular page, go a page such as Beretta M92F, and look in the toolbox, and click on "what links here".--Alienqueen11 03:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem, let me know how it goes once you do.--Alienqueen11 03:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Tybalts Gun

I was wondering if you know where I can find a compensator like the one on tybalts taurus. Thanks

Since this guy is anonymous, I can't message him so I hope you don't mind if I tell him on your discussion board MT. Some sites are www.Gunbroker.com, www.eBay.com, www.Gunsamerica.com. Search, search, and search some more. You'll find whatever you need on those. I got a compensator for my M1911 on ebay. -GM45

I protected all MPM2008's pictures. And yea, that one user is really pissing me off, he dosen't listen and dosen't seem to know a good picture when he sees one. MPM2008 puts too much effort into his images for idiots to upload crappy pictures (Which they probably found on Google) over them like that. Anyway, thanks for reverting the USP image, I also hope to able to block users back soon because I could really use that.--Alienqueen11 03:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Special page

I'm too tired right now to formulate a good response, :) But I will get to that, re the new special page, but I tend to lean away from drawing undue attention to my efforts. :) MPM2008

keeping me honest

Remember if you see an obvious screw up in my updates, please correct it and let me know. I now triple check when someone brings something up. :) I may not have time to do another photo shoot until this weekend. :) MPM2008

Problem fixed

I have good news, thanks to Bunni, we have the ability to block users back, and I also want to let you know that Hieloco is now gone, he'll never be able to upload images, or edit again. By the way, I recommended you and GM45 for positions as moderators.--Alienqueen11 03:26, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The position could still be useful to you in other ways as well. Even if you're unable to catch vandals right away, you can still use the priviledge to delete any pages you don't want or protect them. It's entirely up to you, if you're not interested, just let me know, and I'll tell Bunni.--Alienqueen11 03:47, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Just made you an Admin

You'll now be able to move pages, ban users and protect pages and images. :) WikiSysop 03:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Beretta Inox flashpaper gun

It's funny how you uploaded the ISS Beretta Inox, because I'm making the punisher page now and Travolta uses that gun. -GM

I also have an ISS .45 uploaded on A Beautiful Mind if you need it. -GM

Whatever is easier for you is fine by me. I'll make sure to check it out when your done. - GM

I knew that blanks expanded like that, I guess I just saw what looked like a live round. Whoops. -GM

non guns

Awesome work on the page. Don't know where you got the pics of the devices, but they're very well known around here. And I think they're particularly fugly. ISS is all hot shit on the fact that "They" have the only "NON" guns. Now you know that no one OWNS a Panavision camera. They are all OWNED by Panavision and owners/rental houses/etc. only lease them from Panavision. Just like most of the DOLLIES used in tracking shots, these items are never sold, only LEASED and can be 'recalled' to the parent company at any time. Well NON guns are only available from one place. Other armories cannot ever buy them. We can only subrent them. This new page may not be particularly pretty (the guns are pretty ugly) but it is an important educational element to understanding weapons in films. Usually they're used in places where you can't fire a real gun but need a flash (I filmed in a building right next to a children's hospital and no blanks were allowed), I know of friends who did shoot outs right outside the WHITE HOUSE, and the secret service would only approve of the non guns, and most of the time in NYC, who has such F$*(&ed up gun laws, that most actual gun fire sequences in major motion pictures are done OUTSIDE of the limits of NYC. Great work! IMFDB is getting to be THE definite "weapons in movies" info page!

Pics

Sorry, I've been really SICK for the last ten days and haven't had a time to set up and take pics of guns. When I sit down and rest, i've managed to upload just some files I already had prepared on my computer, but it was just being able to sit down and do stuff that made it possible. Yeah, I know, gun pics are all I'm good for ... ;) Also it's been crazy busy around here. I'm tempted to start making up an "Hello IMFDB" card and start taking pics of actors/actresses in motion pictures holding it and posting them here as a giggle. Usually also holding a movie gun as well. You guys tell me what to put on the card, and I'll start taking it with me to sets, and get famous actors to have their pic taken holding it. I was thinking the IMFDB logo. Again it only works if I can get people to take out a few minutes to do that. The last several productions have been insanely busy and last minute. Usually I get called to the set to bring a gun to an actor, literally SECONDS before the camera rolls. Of course I do a training and practice session if they're firing it, but when I'm handing off an obvious deactivated gun or non firing prop weapon, usually it's totally last minute.

Re: Screenshots

Okay, I'll leave them alone. I also spotted some very good Ronin screenshots that MoviePropMaster uploaded, want me to leave those as well?--Alienqueen11 05:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed some of the Grand Theft Auto 4 pictures that were on the site before the Great Crash, I'll leave them there for use in the future. do you want me to get rid of the old Hulk Screenshots?--Alienqueen11 05:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Good Job, Now that most of them are gone, we should have a ton of room for new and better images. And I agree, seeing how Chaos was, there's no telling how many more extra gun images are out there, I'll be sure to keep an eye for anymore like that because happen to noticed you deleted like atleast three Beretta 92FS pictures. And yea, I really wish people wouldn't upload extra gun pictures, especially when we have the ones MPM2008 taken, there should be no need for them to upload their own images. I'll be sure to check the Revolver page as well.--Alienqueen11 05:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay the ugly gun has a good looking cousin!

you asked for this a long time back .... BTW, got the Type 84S as well ....

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Thanks

Thanks for the PSG pic

Question

I have some SR9 sniper rifles. These were actually 'built' up from HK91 rifles back in the day (alot of the movie guns are 'built' rather than factory stock. I'm sure you know especially the history of the "MP5 versus the HK94 conversions" or the endless "Type 56 versus every AK variant on the planet".) As far as a 'historical reference of the real guns' "Hollywood guns" fall short. My "SR9" upper receivers don't have the forward assist of the actual SR9 guns, but everything else is correct. Is it wrong to post the pics? These guns HAVE been in films and TV shows in the past. The SR9 pictured was in "Nash Bridges" at least once. (edit) and you can see the same SR9 style gun used in SNIPER with Billy Zane, But real gun aficionados might wonder why the upper receiver looks more like a 91 versus an SR9. I will try to get a REAL SR9 rifle and post that pic, but I'm torn, being that we use built up SR9s in American movies and tv shows, though some other armorers have the 'real deal'. MoviePropMaster2008 22:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Type 56 underfolder

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

I just saw GOLDENEYE again this weekend on the television and noticed that the 'cuban' soldiers at the end had Type 56 rifles under folder style with those fake AK74 muzzle brakes on them. So I popped a fake AK74 muzzle brake on one of my Type 56 underfolders and took a pic (for the Goldeneye page). Just a note, all of my own bolt carriers have been blued (after the fact). I should have kept some of them 'silver' for times like these. I will try to track down an unmodified bolt carrier and reshoot some of the guns so that they look stock. The Type 84 has a blued bolt carrier and the original factory model does not.MoviePropMaster2008 22:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

SR9s and AKs

The SR9 in the Replacement killers is a built gun. It has a different lower (see the S-F versus the 0-1) but it doesn't seem to have the forward assist that the SR9 should have (look at the PSG1 to see what the forward assist looks like). But 99.99% of the SR9 guns in movie inventories are built guns. I've only seen authentic guns in foreign movies with foreign armorers. I don't have the exact right Buttstock for my 'faux' SR9T. Is that too distracting? It's been used in films as an SR9T despite the fact that it's a SG/1 buttstock. Again, hollywood 'secrets' are being shattered on this site. But this is not a 'history of firearms' site, in as so much as it is a 'Firearms in the movies' site. And the reality of films is way different than that of guns in the real world, many times.

You're right about the Cuban soldiers. I watched it again on DVD and though in some angles (the forest near the satellite dish) the mags seem dark, it could just be the angle. I will change the AK Underfolder shot... MoviePropMaster2008 03:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

SR9

I figured since the SR9 used to be a readily available civilian "assault rifle", armorers would use it.

Available yes, readily available no. Since only 125 TCs were imported into the entire USA and only 100 T models, most of these were snapped up by either law enforcement or collectors. Clinton put a stop to their import since they could accept 'high capacity' magazines. I tried for years ever since they started coming out to get a real one but couldn't just because they were hard to get (at least on the West coast). It also depended on which distributor one was cozy with. Since the rifles themselves were all built on HK91 receivers anyway, it was easier to get the parts and convert existing HK91s. Since THESE guns have impersonated real TC guns I figured why the hell not? The screencap of Billy Zane in Sniper is one of these very guns. MoviePropMaster2008 02:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help on Four Brothers. I think there's also a "Non Gun" Glock in the Glock 17 section if you want to look at that.--Alienqueen11 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

worries

Hope it doesn't bother you that we're unmasking all of the various tricks that you armorers have been using over the years to convince moviegoers they're seeing one gun when it's actually another!

I was just worried about places like the HK forums with all of those HK enthusiasts. What concerns me is that some people in the firearms community, who are purists, won't understand that IMFDB is not a 'gun history' site per se, but a "history of guns in the movies" site. I actually got worried that HK aficionados would be offended that I had posted images of 'built' movie guns that closely approximate a specific gun, like the movie built SR9T guns rather than getting a bonafide SR9T... when I actually stop to think of it. I will really try to get the real deal in a photo (borrow them from collectors if I have to), but in reality, (just like having Type 56 rifles or Maadis impersonate the REAL AKs in films), movie guys impersonate a few guns, just because it was easier to do so at the time. Like the Fake XM8s in xXx:State of the Union, it all seems so 'fake' when it's revealed to the public, kinda like a magician's tricks. As far as bothering me, no, it is information and cinema history that needs to be collected and shared. I just feel a little weird presenting to gun people "Here is a fake Machine gun '_ _ _ _' that we had to build from plastic and metal parts because we didn't have access to the real one (like the DShKs)" If you get my meaning. MoviePropMaster2008 07:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

New pics

Well I finally got the M16A2 done, I'll get the A3 and A4 as well as a Diemaco done soon. Finally I got to replace my old HK91 pic! :) woohoo! there was a shadow on the upper handguard that bugs me. Does it bug you? The lights were too close and didn't cover the entire rifle. It's not a stock HK magazine, though, it's one of those Taiwanese Blued 30 round magazines that were imported in the 1990s. I'm pretty happy though, I think this is one of the best pics of the HK91 on the web right now. ;) MoviePropMaster2008 20:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Luger P08

(posted this to Alienqueen as well) :) . I finally posted a pic of one of the Lugers we have in inventory. Apparently this is one of the Luger P08s used on the Television show "Hogan's Heroes" in the 1960s. It sure is beat up. Though that info is third hand is the only reason I don't post it because I don't have the info directly from the source. The Barrel was replaced about 20 years ago for some reason, which is why the finish doesn't match. It's a bit of TV history, thought you'd get a kick out of it. :) MoviePropMaster2008 23:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Congrats

Congratulations on the upcoming P226! I wish it was as easy to buy a handgun in NY as it is in Texas. NY sucks with gun laws (gun control laws are bullshit). If my dad wasn't a liscense FFL dealer, I'd have pretty much no chance of enjoying the guns I enjoy now.

I got Last Man Standing finished and I'm going to do Shawshank Redemption and Hotel Rawanda soon. Then I'm going to try to fully do The Dirty Dozen and then I've only got 10 more movies on my list to do. (including the The whole yards movies, some war movies, and Blazing Saddles.) I'll try to get them all done by the end of the month.

P.S. Not to get political, but I hope Biden keeps his Assault Weapons Ban to himself, because not many know he wrote Clinton's ban. If he focuses on gun control during Obama's term, we are majorly fucked (excuse the language). -GM

My father is the same way with assault rifles. He says he doesn't like guns designed to kill. Splitting hairs there. Biden's ban is ridiculous though, he believes any semi-auto gun is considered an assault weapon, including the Browning A5 and the Ruger 10/22! It is foolish and I can't say anything threatening about him because he is VP, but I STRONGLY DISLIKE HIM. [insert uber-insulting text]. I don't understand how people like him make it into office. Dammit, I started a political discussion. -GM

Taurus 85

There's only one that troubles - I think the newer Taurus 85 image is a bit fuzzier compared to the old one.

WTF? try refreshing and looking at the file again. That might fix it. The new pic is way clearer than the old one. :) MoviePropMaster2008 05:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

G3 page

Ugh. Looks like Kin93 added some pics, but I'm not sure if we need to list ones that don't appear in any movie or flick. What are your thoughts? Also the formatting of the G3 page is going all to hell. MoviePropMaster2008 05:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

emasculated guns and a discovery

Well, none of the armorers that I know have those castrated thumbhole HK "Sporting purpose" guns with the neutered forearm (designed to not resemble a "military forearm" woooooo Scary.....). I mean, we don't have pics of all the THUMBHOLE monstrosity AKs (the MAK-90s, the NHMs, etc. etc.) that were imported in the 1990s. Because they weren't used for the most part (I do know of some B movies which had them, but until we list those films, I don't think we should have the pics). It's a bit like all those weird Cutaway shots of guns that have NEVER been in a movie. What's the point? It just clutters the pages and site and doesn't educate anyone about guns in films.

BTW: I found one of those long barreled mystery AK folders I was mystified by in "stealth". Well I don't have it now, but I will try to photograph one when I visit one of my Canadian armorer friends in January. It's the Norinco Type 84 Target Match rifle (with either full stock or folding stock). Very FEW got into the U.S., but they were heavily imported into Canada (that is until the Montreal Massacre of 1989 when that psycho Marc Lépine murdered 14 female students with a Mini-14, however, it took the Canadian government until 1995 to ban Semiautomatic long guns in Canada). So the Canadians had five more years of importing ugly guns than we did. Anyway, my gun control vent is off now ;) I will get a shot of the long barreled Norinco Type 84. :) woo hoo. MoviePropMaster2008 07:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

And yes, we definitely have some of the best gun pics on the 'Net thanks to you. I must admit I'm still smitten with the fact that Norinco Type 84 pics are basically non-existent in just about any gun image site around (even World Guns, which is usually pretty reliable)...except here.

Actually World Guns has pretty crappy photography and I'm pretty sure they jack their shots from other sources as well. That's the reason why I work so hard on the photos. The Net has crap pics of guns. Most of the guys don't know how to take a decent picture (some of the guys take some nice outdoor pics though). I've always liked those Japanese gun magazines with the outrageously sexy product photos of firearms. Those Japanese photographers always knew how to take awesome pics of guns. Anyway I will continue to try to photograph as much as I can. It's still a long while before I 'run out' of guns to take pictures of. I just need to (a) clean some of them up (b)repair some of them or (c) assemble them. As I mentioned before, I have ALL the parts to make all of the correct XM177 models (original USGI parts) but they're all in bins, mismatched. That's one of the things I've always wanted to do, being that so many people screw up and name 'everything' a Colt Commando, when the Commando was a specific type of firearm. Today is a busy day so not much more stuff from me for a little bit. regards. MoviePropMaster2008 19:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen that feature and took some screengrabs from it. I'm going to put those up after I'm done with the movie shots. Thanks for the remainder too.--Alienqueen11 02:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Want me to stop?

Cause I just got Pineapple Express, Wanted, Mummy 3. All these movies. I mean, I got the Incridible Hulk before it came out on DVD, I got Iron Man before it came out. Do you want me to leave disclaimers? Want me to stop?

Fine, I'll stop. And I was actually excited in rewatching Mummy 3 again just to see the guns

Right, but still, I mean if we get screencaps from the DVDs and posted it here, aren't we still taking copyrighted images and posting them? How is doing that and taking something from a bootlegged copy any different?

I didn't say I did, and I didn't write down here if I even took these off of a bootleg movie that I might or might not have downloaded. I could have found a website that I don't remember. I'll stop posting images from something that isn't offical, IE like a DVD but I am going to write it here that just because the evidence points that these might or might not have been from bootlegged material, doesn't mean I did the bootlegging. I don't want to be accused officially and my words written on this site turned against me. I will not admit or deny anything. But I will stop posting photos that can be questioned.

My thoughts. Excaliber01, I would not post anything that has not been officially released. I myself posted pics from the Body of Lies high definition trailer on the web, as well as the Ironman movie , but that was an officially released trailer and was not a bootleg. I've dealt with MPAA and posting images from screen caps, as long as you're writing something 'newsworthy' or 'educational' about the film, doesn't seem to ruffle many feathers. It dances on the line of being 'journalism' if you're writing about the film, not promoting or doing any fan stuff about it, or using it for any self promotion or commercial purposes. After all, how can anyone prove that a particular gun appear in a scene, unless there is a screengrab to prove it? However, anything that can be construed as a bootleg should be avoided. This changes the entire attitude of folks, especially people in the industry and it may direct unwanted attention to IMFDB if we started regularly having proof that a member is posting images from a bootleg dvd. MoviePropMaster2008 07:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The page

Wow. Don't know what to say. I've been gone doing the "gun Thing" the last several days, so I've been offline. thanks! However, I do stay anonymous for a reason. (a) the film industry (and Hollywood in particular) is full of ultra liberal, anti gun persons ... petty and vindictive persons. They think everyone is one of them ... thinks like them ... and those who do not can suffer their wrath, whether it be through pressure or innuendo. There are tons of folks who are blackballed (not officially) but when any powerful individual doesn't like them ... that person 'magically' can't find work... It's probably one of the most dysfunctional industries in existence, save for the "XXX" adult biz. (b) I never draw attention to myself, only presenting my 'cred' when I'm discussing topics or details with other enthusiasts who seem 'serious enough' about the site. I want freedom to post freely without fear of the repercussions of bad mouthing individuals in the biz. Also it's not about me, but what I can contribute to the site. Alot of the armorers stay pretty low key. I'm actually one of the more opinionated ones. We all talk amongst ourselves, but I've noticed that most of the industry biggies (the most famous working armorers) stay very MUM on the topics of politics or gun control. Weird that people would not put 2 and 2 together, i.e. We work with guns ... but we don't support ultra liberal Democrats who want to BAN guns. It's all part of the ignorance of weapons in movies. I don't know HOW many times I've heard "Oh, you don't use REAL guns do you?", or "Oh, the gun bans won't affect YOU!". Which as you know is total bullshit on both counts. Frankly, the powers that be don't give a crap. Most of the industry 'lower echelon people' keep quiet. I have to bite my tongue when I work, but I don't want to have to bite my tongue when I post ;) (c) Some people are 'asshole magnets'. I know a lot of women who have attracted internet stalkers. I, unfortunately have general idiots doing the whole internet harassment thing already (people posting a person's real name, address, phone#, doing weird things like saying they work as a janitor or dropped out of High school (yes both those falsehoods have been posted). It's always disturbing to Google one's own name only to see some asshat smearing you on his blog. The bigger IMFDB grows, and I hope that it grows HUGE, the more google hits will link to the site. I just stay anonymous because I don't want yet another place where morons can figure out who I am (Believe me, YOU guys (the most trusted posters on the site) will probably get that info BEFORE the public, which is fine by me). Also anyone who knows all the armorers and looks at what I say, can easily figure my identity, which again is okay, but I'm already fighting with a particular idiot who is intent on sliming me and my rep on the net, and I dont' want to drag IMFDB into it. Anyway, that's a more long winded explanation. I really appreciate the thought behind the MoviePropMaster Page, but frankly I don't need the credit. You guys give me all the credit I need with your comments on the pics and pages! :) I don't think that the site benefits all that much from the page right now. Just because at this time I'm staying very low key. :) Hope this is understandable. Thanks again. MoviePropMaster2008 05:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Model 29

Well Charon had a pretty good pic on the Dirty Harry pages. The only thing is that I assumed that these were jacked photos. Question: We discussed this before, but it's okay to remove nice pics but ones that are 'jacked from Google' with new original photos as long as the gun is the same make model and configuration? Right? I don't want contributors getting pissed at me for replacing their posted images, even though they themselves just uploaded it from Google. From your conversations with Alienqueen, I assume that the mods agree, replacing all the "net" photos with original IMFDB pics is the standard action, and contributors will have to realize that they didn't 'own' the copyright to the net pics to begin with.

Wiki=

So what do you think of that offer? He wrote a very gracious message and was professional enough to make a formal request. I'm on the fence. I take my pics with the intent of having them only on IMFDB. I do have some friends (fellow armorers OR collectors) who have volunteered the pristine examples for photography (since a lot of the movie guns are beat up), that I've allowed to use for their own uses. Ironwood Designs, for example, did the replacement wood on one of the yugoslavian RPKs (that I haven't uploaded yet), and they asked to use that pic for their website, and I gave them permission, since they fixed the broken wood with an exact replica of the original Yugoslavian wood. There are a few people with websites I've given some specific image permission to , but all of these people have helped in the production of the photos in one way or another. So they're different.

Please give me your thoughts. I am not so keen on others using the pics I shot for IMFDB, at least until I can create a watermarked version of the image, ("courtesy of IMFDB", that sort of thing) so people know that the pic was one of the ones from here. I've been watching the web and are actively looking for websites that might pirate these pics. I don't take kindly to people who jack MY pics, so I am ready to email offenders with 'cease and desist' orders ;) Let me know what you think regarding the polite request by the English wiki guy to use my gun images. MoviePropMaster2008 06:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

IMFDB hypocritical? Nah

I would not clamp down as an IMFDB mod, but as the original photographer. I own the copyright of my own photos and have every right to demand that others not pirate my work. I granted IMFDB the rights (in writing on my user page BTW) to use my photos, I know that anyone who jacks the images will hear from me, the copyright holder. As far as jacking images, (a) I only uploaded some images when there was no image and we needed a place holder. I've been replacing these with images I've shot myself, there are almost none left. If the original copyright holder contacts me (or the site) ... that image will be removed immediately (I assume you all agree with me). I would immediately remove any other person's pics if asked. I just worry that others will not comply if I ask for a removal of my own stuff. I can't control the actions of the other IMFDB contributors, but I shot these images FOR IMFDB, so I am quite protective of my intellectual and artistic property.

Also, as indicated by the kind and professional email from that English Wiki guy, I see that others have noticed the image quality of IMFDB gun pics :) I'm just working towards the day when persons start looking here for images of guns, rather than those other gun sites! hahaha. (despite the fact that they have much more technical and historical data on the actual guns). Also this is the only place I can post images of the 'faux' or 'conversion' guns that we use in the biz. No real firearms page would be interested in a fake SR9 or a fake MP5 (made from an HK94) or Star handguns standing in for 1911s, etc. etc. Anyway, I say 'bring em on' if anyone complains. I'm working my tail off to replace all the pics with images that have been granted usage rights to IMFDB (by me). :) Can't wait until we have all the jacked gun pics replaced on the site. ;) Let me know what you think. best regards. MoviePropMaster2008 02:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The Crow

The gun is a chopped Muzzelite bullpup stock that was custom modified to take a shotgun. Mossberg had a Bullpup stock gun (and kit available in the 1980s) but upon closer examination the gun that Ernie Hudson is holding is a Muzzelite for sure.

Also your comments on the accident that killed brandon lee are inaccurate. Believe me, I've been correcting people for YEARS. the gun that shot Brandon Lee was a snub nose Charter Arms .44 bulldog, not the Model 29 seen in the movie. The reason why no one saw it in the movie is because it is from a deleted scene where Funboy (Michael Massee) shoots Draven in front of an all night convenience store. the footage from that entire scene was later destroyed after the investigation. the scene with the .44 bulldog will NEVER be seen by the general public.

Also the gun wrangler had nothing to do with the accident. The wrangler was wrapped (i.e. sent home) at midnight that night and the gun was locked up in the props trailer (which is a semi truck trailer on most major motion picture gigs that are being shot on location). However, the director (or 2nd unit director) decided to try to film the scene where Massee shoots lee at 4:30 am, well after the weapons master had been 'wrapped' for the day. As is common when dealing with idiot NON gun ownng people, someone loaded the dummy rounds in first (and then dry fired it). The dummy rounds were live (full metal jacket) rounds purchased from a local gun store, and then the rounds were removed with a bullet hammer and all the powder inside was dumped out (the bullet reseated with a reloading press), but the primers remained live, since the director wanted shots of the undented primers. Well, as you know, when you dry fire a revolver with a dummy round (with live primer) the primer explosion is enough to drive the bullet about an inch into the barrel. Someone handed the gun back to the prop handler (who was NOT the gun handler) and said something to the effect of 'this gun is broken'. When another untrained prop handler unloaded the revolver, she did not notice that one of the "dummy rounds" was missing it's bullet head. Again, chain of custody of the handgun was broken yet another time, and no one on the set was trained enough to CHECK the barrel for obstructions, like they should have. They decided to film the scene WITHOUT the gun wrangler (which was fucking stupid since obviously none of these retards knew anything about guns, but this mentality is COMMON in the industry. Non gun owners are the biggest fuckups with guns... as you've heard me bitch about time and time again.

Anyway, come time to film (about 4:00 AM, four hours when they sent the gun handler home because they told him the were DONE filming any firearms scenes) they loaded a full powered .44 bulldog blank in the gun (with that bullet lodged into the barrel) and it obviously had enough force to expel out the round. What is tragic is that Michael massee wasn't aiming directly at Lee, however, the deformation of the round, plus the fact that it was already 'crooked' in the barrel created a non stable bullet flight. It 'arched' on a weird spin pattern and literally curved it's trajectory into Lee. The bullet entered his lower intestines, and because it was spinning in a weird way, tore all the way up his spinal cord (shattering the spinal cord into splinters) all the way up to the base of his neck. Even if he was taken to an E.R. within seconds, the damage was so severe that he would have died regardless of who or what medical facilities were treating him. What is chilling is that the footage shows the scene continuing as if nothing is wrong and the director calling cut, with set assistants walking up and checking on Lee to see why he is being 'so slow to get up'. It was pretty gruesome.

I wonder what it would have been like to be the gun wrangler getting to set the next day, only to discover that the other props people (who knew nothing about guns) had managed to kill the star with their stupidity. BTW, I knew an actor who was roommates with Michael Massee (Funboy). Massee was so traumatized by the incident that he took a year hiatus and hiked across the Canadian wilderness to 'clear his head'. The entire incident was tragic, but unfortunately, a lot of urban myths are posted on the internet about it. The longer time passes, the more inaccurate accounts I read on the net about the incident. Hope this helps. MoviePropMaster2008 04:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

User talk:MT2008

Norinco Type 54/questionable conversation

Back for a bit

Gunmaster45

A pic and an update

Long barreled AKs

Re: Your Articles

re:Sahara

Sahara

Thanks for the help

Guns in The Siege

Good to have you back. :)

hello

I am re-editing Red Dawn

Type 84

Incredible Hulk Grenade Launchers

My two cents on the Hulk Launchers

Your CZ99 pic

Editing Dogs of War

Raw Deal page and other thoughts

Type 56

re: Type 56

New Images

Updates

Zastava

Re: Lord of War

Hey

Hey again

Question

U.S. Marshals Screenshot Needed

Photo request for SIGP226

MT2008's question re: Colt Launchers

Thanks

Reply

More pics

XM177

Re: Beretta

RE:Dirty Harry

Re: Your comment on the Rambo II HK93

Finally put the MP5A5 in

Saving Private Ryan

Garand Pics

FINALLY! :)

Ask and Ye shall Receive

Two Tones part 2

More of your questions answered

Casino Royale

XXX

Where Eagles Dare

Bad Boys II P226

Need some help

Re:Beretta M92FS

Should cartoons be allowed?

New Pics

Re: Helping out with replacing pics

Dawn of the Dead

Tybalts Gun

Special page

keeping me honest

Problem fixed

Just made you an Admin

Beretta Inox flashpaper gun

non guns

Pics

Re: Screenshots

Okay the ugly gun has a good looking cousin!

Thanks

Question

Type 56 underfolder

SR9s and AKs

SR9

worries

New pics

Luger P08

Congrats

Taurus 85

G3 page

emasculated guns and a discovery

Want me to stop?

The page