Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. DarkSamuraiX1999 00:00, 16 November 2011
Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. Alex T Snow 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)
It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. Evil Tim 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. Alex T Snow 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --RaNgeR 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. DarkSamuraiX1999 00:25 16 November 2011
Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --RaNgeR 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)
The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe Star Trek's science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. Evil Tim 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)
One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --Masterius 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --RaNgeR 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - Mr. Wolf 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --Masterius 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala The Hurt Locker, I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... Alex T Snow 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)
Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --Masterius 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)
You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. Alex T Snow 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Cod always screws up the guns
Sidearms
Has anyone else noticed Campo carries two sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.
I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)
Maybe they are copying Epps from Transformers: Dark of the Moon, he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --commando552 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)
Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. Alex T Snow 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)
It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --Masterius 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? Santos 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)
I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. Alex T Snow 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)
lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. Lurker McNasty 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)
Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. Evil Tim 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. Alex T Snow 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.
If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:
Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. Evil Tim 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. Alex T Snow 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --commando552 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. Alex T Snow 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)
Just to assure you this does happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):
RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? Evil Tim 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)
Single Action Army
Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) Alex T Snow 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
M224
I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --SmithandWesson36 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) Alex T Snow 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. Evil Tim 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Kaffarov's Private Army
While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons hasn't, but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --RaNgeR 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --Masterius 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)
I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. Alex T Snow 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)
To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a lot of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. Evil Tim 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)
I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)
With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.
Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what kind of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. Evil Tim 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)
Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)
Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:
1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.
Or
2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.
2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.
The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.
Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.
Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-Ranger01 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)
I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move tons of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there is precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.
As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's just equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. Evil Tim 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)
I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! Alex T Snow 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)
From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--Toadie 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)
This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up (Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --Markit 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)
well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --Armyguy277 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)
Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-Ranger01 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S Spartan198 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)
@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.
On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --Markit 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)
Politics aside, F2000s would be great for a desert country; they're almost airtight. Alex T Snow 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)
Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)
Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) Alex T Snow 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)
Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)
Researchers point to Heckler & Koch G3A3 being replaced with Steyr AUG in Saudi Arabian Army[1][2] --Masterius 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)
So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)
Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[3] --Masterius 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)
Blackburn from BHD ??
Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)
I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. Evil Tim 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)
Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and one is actually the grandson of another. --Masterius 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
P.S. Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...
There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. Spartan198 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)
From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall (However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter when he was in a Humvee on the ground? Spartan198 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)
P.S. ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?
They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. Spartan198 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)
He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --commando552 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)
An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? Nohomers48 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)
Now this is intriguing... --Masterius 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)
I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several Generation Kill references. For example:
- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.
- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.
- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".
Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)
M203 Dog tag
I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?
Yes it should, like the SAA. Alex T Snow 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)
Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. Evil Tim 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)
Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)
Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. Alex T Snow 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)
It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)
You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.
Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)
You mean in the game. - Mr. Wolf 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)
Just how realistic is it? --Masterius 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)
I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. Santos 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)
Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. Evil Tim 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)
And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --Masterius 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)
Back to Karkand
There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.
Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:
MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics
L85A2
QBZ-95B
QBU-88
FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)
There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.
Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:
Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--AchingScaphoid 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)
Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. Evil Tim 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)
There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an AKM, second is the same AKS-74U with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --commando552 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)
The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --Spanner
I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --commando552 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)
I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. Alex T Snow 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)
An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --commando552 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? Evil Tim 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)
Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --Masterius 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it Draco122 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
MG36
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. Alex T Snow 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, and a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is not called MG36. Evil Tim 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? Alex T Snow 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real must be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. Evil Tim 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a lot easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. Alex T Snow 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. Evil Tim 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)
That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) Alex T Snow 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)
Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. Evil Tim 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)
You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - Mr. Wolf 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)
This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. GunEnthusiast 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
The thing is the train was already going to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.
Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." Evil Tim 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)
Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.
In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. GunEnthusiast 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)
Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" Evil Tim 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)
Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. GunEnthusiast 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)
Question
I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - Mr. Wolf 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)
It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)
The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. Evil Tim 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)
I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - Mr. Wolf 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)
Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. Evil Tim 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)
596 GB. :B - Mr. Wolf 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)
I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--Gunkatas 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)
I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - Mr. Wolf 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)
Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) Alex T Snow 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)
Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - Mr. Wolf 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)
Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. Evil Tim 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)
My God
I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.
Ex:
Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.
Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.
Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).
from latest patch --Armyguy277 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)
Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --Masterius 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)
Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) Alex T Snow 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)
Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. Evil Tim 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)
What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O Alex T Snow 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)
Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)
I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well Santos 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)
Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. GunEnthusiast 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)
With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC Santos 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)
On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)
Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --FIVETWOSEVEN 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)
That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. Alex T Snow 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)
Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--FIVETWOSEVEN 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)
No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. Alex T Snow 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)
Changing Descriptions in screenshots.
If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--Gunkatas 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. Evil Tim 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--Gunkatas 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the Rules, Standards and Principles, "IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground." --Funkychinaman 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here. So... yeah. Spartan198 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. Evil Tim 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. Alex T Snow 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--Gunkatas 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. Evil Tim 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)
Evil Tim is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --Masterius 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)
I didn't know that, congrats! :D Alex T Snow 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)
I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --Gunkatas 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)
As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) Lurker McNasty 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)
I won't change it. :) - Mr. Wolf 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)
Knife used by Dmitri
Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--Gunkatas 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
It's a Spetsnaz machete. [4] --Funkychinaman 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
IRL USMC use neither M26 MASS nor M320 GLM. Army does. USMC still use M203 GL as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... M32 MGL. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like M107 LRSR did). Thoughts shared. --Masterius 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. Evil Tim 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)
Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC M9A1.
Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in CoD 4 and MoH) --Masterius 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. Evil Tim 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. Draco122 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - Mr. Wolf 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in F.E.A.R. or Mirror's Edge (also made by EA DICE) :D --Masterius 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)
More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)
Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) Alex T Snow 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)
Wait, how do you kick? Lurker McNasty 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)
You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)
Dammit. I am disappoint. Lurker McNasty 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)
Current Page Status / More Images
It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/
I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.
As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.
Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)
It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) Alex T Snow 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)
HK53
Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. Lurker McNasty 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees Draco122 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. Evil Tim 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".----JazzBlackBelt-- 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --Masterius 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)
lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. Lurker McNasty 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)
All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. Alex T Snow 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)
DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --Masterius 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)
"Realistic"
Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. Animalmenace 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. Evil Tim 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)
Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" Lurker McNasty 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)
Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: Fackler Scale of FPS Realism --Masterius 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)
As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they could as opposed to one in the chamber, which has to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. Alex T Snow 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)
Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that Frostbite 2 Engine is more advanced than Frostbite 1 Engine (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from Refractor 2 Engine are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there didn't do the research and shown their work. Me wants Project Reality for BF3 :| --Masterius 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)
I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. Animalmenace 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)
Javelins are the best.
Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. Lurker McNasty 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)
Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --Masterius 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)
And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D Alex T Snow 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)
It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. Lurker McNasty 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)
The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)
Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?Lurker McNasty 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)
Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)
9K22 Tunguska
I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --commando552 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)
Example image in case anyone feels like adding. Evil Tim 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)
Added a piece of info about the M1014
It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --FIVETWOSEVEN 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)
This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--Mazryonh 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)
SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)
You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --Masterius 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)
Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.
But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --Mazryonh 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)
The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in Project Reality. --Masterius 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)
So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --Mazryonh 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. It's currently v0.1, right at the starting line. --Masterius 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)
M1014 magazine tube length
Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --Baztian 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)
The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--GLOCK10mil 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)
Didn't think of that. Thank you. --Baztian 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)
