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Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series
Screen-used SIG-Sauer Pistols
Additional Variants
P226
P228
P229
P245
I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --Jcordell 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
P228
I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -Gunman69 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
- The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -MT2008
- Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -Gunman69 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
P220
Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -Anonymous
Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP.
Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --Crazycrankle 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.SAWGunner89 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
P6 hammer notch
As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?SAWGunner89 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228
Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.
- I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -MT2008 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Just wondering?
Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?
Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice. -Double Agent M
Uhm,I'm just wondering.What is that small thing, which is near safe button? Littlesoldier1 12:21, 4 January 2012 (CST)
Gonna have to be more specific. Are you talking about the magazine release or the slide release? or are you talking about the takedown lever? Bristow8411 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CST)
- And whats the safe button? --Zackmann08 16:04, 18 January 2012 (CST)
Modern Sigs do not have an external safety. The controls are from the front as follows: Take down lever, hammer decocker for da/sa models (hole if DAK model), and slide release. Peejn8r
- Generally true, but there are a few single action only variants of the P220 along with the P226 X-Five that have no decocker, and a frame mounted safety behind the slide release. --commando552 12:19, 19 January 2012 (CST)
Confirmation
I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -Anonymous
There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-Ranger01 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -Anonymous
Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-Ranger01 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Alright, thank you. -Anonymous
No problemo.
P228 vs. 229
What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -Anonymous
The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.
- So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -Anonymous
Quick question about SIGs in films and television
I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - GunEnthusiast
- In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.
- I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -MT2008 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters
I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)
SEALS
Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--MarineCorps1 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. ----JazzBlackBelt-- 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
- The Navy SEALS also used the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 for a while before switching to the SiG-Sauer P226. Reason being? The H&K Mk 23 was deemed to be a bit of a piece of shit. With a heavy trigger pull and a clunky, unwieldy feel and ability to use, the SEALS kicked that pistol to the curb pretty quick. --ThatoneguyJosh 20:53, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
- Form what I heard from people who actually own Mark 23s the trigger pull is better than the USP. :/ I would own a Mark 23 but that's just me, I like big, heavy (actually the Mark 23 only weighs as much as a M1911 handgun), over-engineered weapons that can survive a nuclear explosion. :P - Mr. Wolf 20:15, 5 June 2011 (CDT)
What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--MarineCorps1 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
- The Slides had a tendency to break; officially as a result of the SEALs using hotter rounds than the weapon was rated for.The Wierd It 18:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
- The other branches didn't feel the need to replace the M9, probably because the SEALS have higher standards for their sidearms. Also, the SIGs were extremely durable, you could take them through saltwater, drag them through sand, even pound it with a jackhammer and they would still fire. The other branches didn't use their sidearms nearly as much as the SEALS. Presently the Coast Guard is using the SIG-Sauer P229, and the actual agency NCIS (naval criminal investigative service, pretty much cops for the navy and marines) use P229s as well. Also, I don't know where you live, but if u live in america go on youtube and search for "nutnfancy p226 part 1" its the first one that shows up. He talks about the history of the P226 and its use with the SEALS.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The SIG P229 is a fine weapon, from my experiance its the best shooting handgun for me. Wonder if the P220 works aswell because I want one.--FIVETWOSEVEN 03:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
New P226
Has anyone seen the new production line SIG P226s? What do you guys think of the new grips? They've got the same grips that the E2 has now. I like them but I will miss the old P226 grips. --cool-breeze 15:34, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
- I honestly think that I am the only one who does not like them. I like how they try to appeal to smaller-handed shooters, but I think they should have kept the "classic" style availiable as well. I handled a classic P226 with the E2 grips installed, and it just didn't feel right to me. They did this to the P229 (my favorite gun) and changed the slide style as well. I will miss the classic grips. (It feels so weird calling the SIGs I know and love the classic version)----JazzBlackBelt-- 02:46, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
Being a Brit the closest I get to handling a real gun are my airsoft ones, but if I manage to move to America (which is one of my lifes goals) I'd like to get some real guns. One of them is a SIG Sauer P226 but I prefer the classic unrailed frame. I wish SIG still produced those for sale as well. --cool-breeze 04:35, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
You can still get the old grips for SIGs. They sell them on their website, and i'm sure that various other distributors bought ass-loads of them to sell. The new grips give more options to a wider range of shooters. --TheDon 09:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
- I've been thinking about ordering a pair for a while. Even though I can get my hand around my 226's grip just fine (the smaller circumference doesn't matter much to me), I've never liked the texture of the previous generation grips. The E2 grip texture is designed to be a lot like the grips on the very earliest P226s (the checker-pattern grips).
- Also, SIG just introduced the "P226 German", which is a rail frame P226 that has the German-manufactured stamped slide of the oldest model P226s. I might have to get one some day - the old stamped slides are WAY superior to the milled slides that have been standard since the late-90s. -MT2008 10:27, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
When I saw the "P226 German" on their website I was hoping it would be a classic P226 without a rail but it has the rail. I don't understand why they don't still produce unrailed framed P226s. --cool-breeze 12:55, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
I must admit that I thought the same thing when I saw the German on their site. And i'm sure many other people were just as disappointed when they saw the rail... honestly, I can see where they could be useful, but aesthetically I prefer SIGs without rails. Like the P229 SAS, for instance. --TheDon 22:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
They could be useful but SIGs look so much better without them. And there's nothing wrong with the Harries technique in my opinion if you need a flash light. --cool-breeze 06:11, 26 July 2011 (CDT)
1. The SAS pretty much covers the rail-less Sigs. 2. As I own a 229(R) the rail isnt bad for texture. Really causes no problems holstering. If you dont like the look I dont know what to tell you. Having the rail standard is a good idea because it gives you the OPTION to put a light or laser on your gun. 3. Carrying a light in your off hand will work but putting the light on your gun is a much sturdier option letting you still have full control of your firearm with both hands and the added benefit of the light. Peejn8r
I agree with you on all of these points. We were speaking purely of the aesthetic value of the rails. I'm sure some some people like the looks of them, and personally don't think they're THAT bad. I just feel that SIGs, especially those with the new one piece, snap on grips, look much better without them. --TheDon 22:07, 9 February 2012 (CST)
P239 Slide
As far as I can tell, there are two different slide designs for the P239, the first being the one similar to the P228 that is seen on the gun images for this page, but then you also have a design similar to the P229 that can be seen on the pages for Chuck and Nikita (2010) for example. Does this indicate different manufacture date, or does the slide change with calibre? --commando552 02:23, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....MoviePropMaster2008 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. Dover500 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --commando552 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.Dover500 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- The extractor on the new P229 is much larger than before.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:16, 10 October 2011 (CDT)
- The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.Dover500 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --commando552 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. Dover500 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....MoviePropMaster2008 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
Broken links
Although more correct, when --JazzBlackBelt-- put "-Sauer" into the titles for the different guns it now means that all of the redirects, like SIG-Sauer P226, don't go to the correct section anymore, along with any links that are in articles (such as [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]) that lead to a particular section. I take it there is no way to fix the second problem short of going through every single article and changing it is there? Also, why do we put the dash in SIG-Sauer, as far as I can tell the actual company name is either SIG SAUER, or SIG Sauer. --commando552 07:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- You are right about the title, they never refer to themselves as "SIG-Sauer" but "SIG Sauer". And, right again, theres no way to fix the redirect problem :( --bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:29, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- I thought that when SIG joined up with Sauer they put a hyphen between their names. Also, the little thing at the top of the page says that we should put a hyphen.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- You could always just edit the redirects... Go to the SIG-Sauer P226 page and change where it redirects... I've already done it for the P226 (try the link and see for yourself). Shouldn't be that difficult. --Zackmann08 14:51, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- commando552 and I were not talking about the [[SIG-Sauer P226]] redirect, but the pages like The Negotiator or XXX where the longer [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] hyperlink is used. Those now redirect to the top of the page instead of the P226's section. And the only way to fix them is to change them on every page that uses this hyperlink. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 15:47, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- What he said. I know the first problem is fixable like you said, was going to edit the redirects earlier but didn't in case the name changed again. --commando552 16:43, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- My bad. Though I will say that this is a perfect reason why using this style: [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] is a bad idea (not saying it was your guys fault or anything, just saying that its a good reason to avoid that type of coding). --Zackmann08 19:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)
Wow, my bad guys, I didn't know it would jack up all the redirects. What if we reverted the page back, but added a note at the top of the page stating that the proper name has the Sauer in it?----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- We should strive to be as correct as possible. If it's right, it's right. I'm willing to put in the legwork. --Funkychinaman 22:00, 17 January 2012 (CST)
P239 & P245
Considering the name of this page is P220 pistol series shouldn't these guns be on their own page? Thoughts? --Zackmann08 20:22, 9 February 2012 (CST)
- Both the P239 and P245 belong to the P220 line. The P245 is a compact P220 that was replaced by the P220 carry, and the P239 is a compact, single-stack pistol that uses the P220 configuration.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:16, 9 February 2012 (CST)
- Gotcha. Thanx! --Zackmann08 00:18, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Splitting up this page
I wanted to get some feed back on the idea of splitting up this page. I completely understand why the page is all together. These guns are all based on the same frame, etc. That being said, each model has its own variants. The P226 for example has at least 10+ variants, P226 Tactical, P226 X-Five, P226 Navy, etc. etc. It might be nicer to have each of these guns with their own page.
IF that were to happen this page could be converted into a disambiguation page that list's all the guns that are members of the series. Also, each individual page could mention that the gun is part of a larger series and could have a "See Also". Just food for thought... I would love to hear what people think. --Zackmann08 02:50, 11 February 2012 (CST)
- I'm all for it, as there are some variants that appear in film/TV and we don't even have a picture of them. The downside to splitting this page up is that all the links for the SIG line will be broken, unless there is some all-magical admin power I don't know about.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:56, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
P228 Picture
I believe that this was mentioned before, but the picture of the P228 looks odd. It bears many resemblances to my UHC Spring Airsoft P228, including the trigger, hammer, trigger pin placement, and even warps in the slide and frame. Even if the picture is not an airsoft replica, it does not do the P228 justice. I know how much work it is to find a good P228 to photograph, and then even more work getting the photo right. The picture now looks oddly misshapen, especially around the hammer and trigger guard. If you compare it to the picture of the two-tone P228 on this talk page, the differences are visible ----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:35, 23 March 2012 (CDT)