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Talk:Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Batcave on Google Maps
Would anyone like to identify the guns in Batman's gun rack? Google Maps allows a "Street View"-like tour of his Batcave for this new film.
Gun racks --antzpantz (talk) 16:19, 29 March 2016 (GMT+0800)
The shotgun is a Benelli M4 Super 90. On the gun racks I can make out two TDI Vectors, a stand-alone M203, and an Airtronic RPG-7. Spartan198 (talk) 08:04, 29 March 2016 (EDT)
- I think that this is the best location to see all of the racks from. From left to right, the real guns appear to be a pair of Glock 17s in CAA Roni stocks, an M203A1 in a KAC standalone stock, LAR Grizzly Big Boar, next thing uses parts of a Nerf Longshot, the rifle in the clamp appears to be a Remington 700 style in a Bell & Carlson Varmint/Tactical stock with a muzzle brake of some sort, a pair of TDI Vectors, another M203A1, a pair of Airtronic RPGs, another sniper rifle that matches the previous one, and lastly four FN EGLM standalone grenade launchers. I Wouldn't 100% trust that everything is in this image though, as other promo photos show a Cheytac on the last rack so there may be other missing guns. Also, anybody else think that these sniper rifles are probably the same as the one Batman uses on top of the tower that is currently labelled as a SSG 3000? --commando552 (talk) 10:11, 29 March 2016 (EDT)
Batman gadgets from SDCC 2015
It looks like Batman will be using an FN EGLM and flashbangs: seen here. Weirdly though, although the flashbang looks like a CTS Model 7290, it is labelled as a Model 6500 from what looks like a company called EFS. I tried googling them and came up with nothing so instead I searched for the address which is printed on the grenade, and lo and behold it is the address of Independent Studio Services. It seems that they make their own mock ups of the CTS grenades, but have slightly changed the labelling and trade marks for (I assume) legal reasons. --commando552 (talk) 14:30, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
New image from Empire Magazine
A new image from Empire magazine was released today [Link}. Batman appears to have a rifle slung around his back. If you brighten the image, you can get a slightly better look at it. IMO, it looks a bit like an FN SCAR. Any thought? Andrewj28 (talk) 18:45, 26 January 2016 (EST)
- I'm pretty sure it is the same weapon as the SCARs that Lex's guards have, it has that same distinctive grey upper on a black lower. Some SCARs look like this and I think it is indicative of something, but I cant remember what. --commando552 (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2016 (EST)
Interesting
Does anyone else find it interesting that Batman has guns in his armory? I always figured that, given his feelings about them, he wouldn't want them anywhere near his equipment.--Sasquatch the Reaper (talk) 01:02, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- I don't find it all that surprising. Some interpretations may have Bats showing or espousing anti-gun sentiment but Batman has in fact used firearms in several comics as well as the first Keaton/Burton film. StanTheMan (talk) 01:10, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- To be fair, in the VAST majority of Batman stories that are not some kind of parallel/else-world he hates guns and doesn't use firearms. He has on occasion used guns or gun-like-things firing speciality ammunition or rubber bullets. The only time that I can remember him using a gun as just a normal gun is Batman Year Two (which was weird). I've avoided spoilers so far, but from what I have heard the Batman in this is incredibly dark and vicious so I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if he did use guns in some capacity. Going for more of a traditional Batman justification, they could be for speciality ammo, guns he has captured, they could be for ballistic comparisons like in TDKR, or they could be for testing the bullet resistance of his equipment. He actually has even more weapons in there than are currently listed, I have seen a promo images that also shows a pair of McMillan TAC-308 rifles and a pair of Airtronic RPG-7s. --commando552 (talk) 06:59, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Batman's disdain for guns seems to be a fairly recent invention. He used guns in The Dark Knight Returns, and he carried a sidearm in his early comic book days. And as Stan pointed out, he had no issues with trying to fill the Joker full of lead in the first Tim Burton film. I haven't kept up with the comic of late, but he doesn't seem to mind if Red Hood uses guns when they team up, as long as he doesn't shoot to kill. Alfred used shotguns in Justice League: War and Son of Batman, so there are definitely some loaded guns in the Batcave. --Funkychinaman (talk) 07:51, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Batman's not a fan of guns because of a few reasons. The main two reasons are, it was a gun that killed his parents so he probably grew to dislike the weapon, and the fact that he doesn't kill. However, despite the fact he's not a fan of them, he is an expert marksman, and would most likely train with them just so that, if he had to, he can use one with the precision needed not to kill. --Bauer2121 (talk) 08:48, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- He used guns in the old golden age comics, but that stuff is all pretty different to current comics. The no guns thing is from the silver age (60s ish) all the way to today. As for TDKR, correct me if I'm wrong but the only guns he uses in that are a line launching rifle and rubber bullet machine guns on the bat tank. In fact I always remember TDKR as being one of the big examples of Batman's anti-gun point of view, with him having that whole speech about how guns are the weapon of cowards, whilst snapping a rifle in half with his bare hands. --commando552 (talk) 12:57, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- I don't really remember the story of TDKR that much, but interestingly, they make a toy of Batman with a rifle (which appears to be an L42), even more interestingly, with an ankle holster. He was very anti-gun in the DCAU, which is why I referred to it as recent. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:54, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Whatever interpretation of Bats (and keep in mind just about every one of them is different to varying degrees) and whether or not it follows his (non-originally) expressed disdain for firearms or not, again, I'm not someone who really raises an eye seeing Batman with a stockpile of guns - As stated they have other technical uses in terms of testing/investigation/etc that have nothing to do with Batman actually using them 'straight-up' in the field. That said, seeing him actually 'strap-up' might be a bit different (and 'interesting', as the OP suggests), but even then not so much - Especially in an interpretation where he follows a much darker, harder and harsher tone and feel. On a sidenote, I think they went a bit too far into real anti-gun BS in recent years, rather than just showing Batman/Wayne's personal dislike for guns; TDKR is a notable example with that remark - Guns are the tool of 'cowards' but I doubt he'd call Gordon or any other gun-carrying cops cowards. It's just that in most other cases he may not have liked them himself but didn't chide them so much as their use by those who were essentially 'cowards' in the first place. But - that's all another thing entirely. StanTheMan (talk) 14:14, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- I will sort of defend the anti-gun speech from TDKR returns, firstly because it is an awesome speech, and secondly because to me it is kind of hyperbole as if I remember correctly he is trying to turn a load of gun-toting mutants and gang members to his side. As for the armed-up toy, this is from the comic but neither of those weapons are actually used as traditional "guns". The L42A1 is used as a line launching rifle to go between the roofs of two skyscrapers, and the pistol is actually what his grappling hook launcher is in this comic. From the trailer and promotional images we know that Batman is armed with a SCAR in the desert scenes, but I believe that these are from a parallel future so who knows if this applies. --commando552 (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Ah right - I had previously forgotten the context of that scene for a minute with the mutants and all (haven't seen the film since its release) so that's a fair point there. StanTheMan (talk) 02:09, 25 March 2016 (EDT)
- I will sort of defend the anti-gun speech from TDKR returns, firstly because it is an awesome speech, and secondly because to me it is kind of hyperbole as if I remember correctly he is trying to turn a load of gun-toting mutants and gang members to his side. As for the armed-up toy, this is from the comic but neither of those weapons are actually used as traditional "guns". The L42A1 is used as a line launching rifle to go between the roofs of two skyscrapers, and the pistol is actually what his grappling hook launcher is in this comic. From the trailer and promotional images we know that Batman is armed with a SCAR in the desert scenes, but I believe that these are from a parallel future so who knows if this applies. --commando552 (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Whatever interpretation of Bats (and keep in mind just about every one of them is different to varying degrees) and whether or not it follows his (non-originally) expressed disdain for firearms or not, again, I'm not someone who really raises an eye seeing Batman with a stockpile of guns - As stated they have other technical uses in terms of testing/investigation/etc that have nothing to do with Batman actually using them 'straight-up' in the field. That said, seeing him actually 'strap-up' might be a bit different (and 'interesting', as the OP suggests), but even then not so much - Especially in an interpretation where he follows a much darker, harder and harsher tone and feel. On a sidenote, I think they went a bit too far into real anti-gun BS in recent years, rather than just showing Batman/Wayne's personal dislike for guns; TDKR is a notable example with that remark - Guns are the tool of 'cowards' but I doubt he'd call Gordon or any other gun-carrying cops cowards. It's just that in most other cases he may not have liked them himself but didn't chide them so much as their use by those who were essentially 'cowards' in the first place. But - that's all another thing entirely. StanTheMan (talk) 14:14, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- I don't really remember the story of TDKR that much, but interestingly, they make a toy of Batman with a rifle (which appears to be an L42), even more interestingly, with an ankle holster. He was very anti-gun in the DCAU, which is why I referred to it as recent. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:54, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- He used guns in the old golden age comics, but that stuff is all pretty different to current comics. The no guns thing is from the silver age (60s ish) all the way to today. As for TDKR, correct me if I'm wrong but the only guns he uses in that are a line launching rifle and rubber bullet machine guns on the bat tank. In fact I always remember TDKR as being one of the big examples of Batman's anti-gun point of view, with him having that whole speech about how guns are the weapon of cowards, whilst snapping a rifle in half with his bare hands. --commando552 (talk) 12:57, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Batman's not a fan of guns because of a few reasons. The main two reasons are, it was a gun that killed his parents so he probably grew to dislike the weapon, and the fact that he doesn't kill. However, despite the fact he's not a fan of them, he is an expert marksman, and would most likely train with them just so that, if he had to, he can use one with the precision needed not to kill. --Bauer2121 (talk) 08:48, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Batman's disdain for guns seems to be a fairly recent invention. He used guns in The Dark Knight Returns, and he carried a sidearm in his early comic book days. And as Stan pointed out, he had no issues with trying to fill the Joker full of lead in the first Tim Burton film. I haven't kept up with the comic of late, but he doesn't seem to mind if Red Hood uses guns when they team up, as long as he doesn't shoot to kill. Alfred used shotguns in Justice League: War and Son of Batman, so there are definitely some loaded guns in the Batcave. --Funkychinaman (talk) 07:51, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
- Guns are the tools of cowards. Yeah okay. We can't all be billionaires with the athletic prowess of a Gold medal winning Olympian and the strength of three gorillas. Well it sounded really good. LOL --Jcordell (talk) 18:09, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
- I think it's safe to assume all of us here are pretty pro-gun. Most of the guys here I know do own and carry guns and some of the guys are actual movie armorers so our perspectives are one thing. I don't think any of us sees guns as tools for cowards. I think in this movie universe, Batman's no kill rule has changed since it's implied that he's broken it after the death of Robin as the Easter egg in the cave shows. The debate on whether or not Batman should or should not use guns or any comic book superhero would is deep. On one hand, the marketing for comic book characters is they are aimed towards kids and young adults and it's bad role models for them to openly kill people in their job as vigilantes. But that seems to only apply to superheroes capturing human villains or near human villains and not say mindless monsters. Excalibur01 (talk) 11:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
- To be fair, in the VAST majority of Batman stories that are not some kind of parallel/else-world he hates guns and doesn't use firearms. He has on occasion used guns or gun-like-things firing speciality ammunition or rubber bullets. The only time that I can remember him using a gun as just a normal gun is Batman Year Two (which was weird). I've avoided spoilers so far, but from what I have heard the Batman in this is incredibly dark and vicious so I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if he did use guns in some capacity. Going for more of a traditional Batman justification, they could be for speciality ammo, guns he has captured, they could be for ballistic comparisons like in TDKR, or they could be for testing the bullet resistance of his equipment. He actually has even more weapons in there than are currently listed, I have seen a promo images that also shows a pair of McMillan TAC-308 rifles and a pair of Airtronic RPG-7s. --commando552 (talk) 06:59, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
Please help ID
Please help ID these rifles. What stock is used? --Ben41 (talk) 12:04, 22 July 2016 (EDT)
- I beleive that it is a Bell & Carlson Varmint/Tactical stock. Not sure about what action is in them, looks like something Rem 700 based. I beleive that this is also probably the rifle that Batman has on the rooftop as opposed to a SIG-Sauer SSG 3000 (the shape of the front of the stock is wrong and it has a different design of muzzle brake). commando552 (talk) 13:12, 22 July 2016 (EDT)
Redundant redundancy?
So, about the guy in front of Python Leader...
I know and understand the whole "two is one and one is none" mentality, but isn't two CQB optics kind of an odd choice? Sure, mini red dots in offset mounts are becoming popular because it's a lot quicker to just tilt your rifle to one side instead of having to disengage a magnifier or change magnification level, but you generally only see these when coupled with a magnified optic. I find its use in conjunction with an EOTech to be kind of strange. Spartan198 (talk) 03:00, 12 September 2016 (EDT)
- The purpose of a mini red dot is not always as an alternate to a magnified optic, instead it can just be as a back up site. These rifles don't appear to have any back up iron sights fitted, so if the EOTech broke the mini red dot is there instead of irons. --commando552 (talk) 05:17, 12 September 2016 (EDT)
- I have seen only 1 instance in the real world from a US Army training video where a soldier was shooting and M4 with an ACOG but a micro red dot on a 45 degree offset, but I have yet to see anyone actually use that set up in pracice Excalibur01 (talk) 11:41, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
- That situation is easier to understand than the one show in this film, as the ACOG is magnified so having the canted RDS not only gives you a backup but it provides an option for CQB where you don't want magnification. I believe than canted red dots with a telecopic sight like an ACOG are also very popular in competition like 3-gun aren't they? I have personally used an LMT Defender with a canted red dot, but with a fixed power 4x scope rather than a holo/magnifier combo and that worked well IMHO. As for the case in the film, I think I have actually seen this exact set up once on a British police AR but could be wrong (EOTechs with magnifiers are definitely used, as are canted red dots but might be wrong about remembering them being used together). A similar example I can find is how the BTP set up their ARs with a variable power 1-3x (I think, can't remember the brand so can't look it up tot check) optic but have a canted RDS as a back up, as seen here. I imagine that part of the reckoning is that if you have a set up where there is something in the way stopping you from putting on folding rear irons or it is a sight you cant co-witness through (possibly the case with a magnifier like this) a canted RDS as a back up is a good option. --commando552 (talk) 15:55, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
- This is why the canted iron sights that Will Smith as Deadshot used in The Suicide Squad confused me. During the demonstration of his skills, he picked up a small SBR with an EOtech on it but with canted iron sights. Excalibur01 (talk) 17:20, 15 September 2016 (EDT)