Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5: Difference between revisions
Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5: Difference between revisions
:A cartridge's technical advantages aren't enough in and of themselves to win over potential major supporters like national LEO agencies. Still, if you pick over the various MP5/10 shooting range videos on youtube (especially where the 2-round-burst setting is used), you'll see that the recoil of the MP5/10 doesn't appear to be anything significant. A terminal ballistics specialist by the name of Dr. Gary Roberts even called it [http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1376584&postcount=109 "probably the most interesting and effective SMG ever made."]--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:51, 22 January 2013 (EST)
:A cartridge's technical advantages aren't enough in and of themselves to win over potential major supporters like national LEO agencies. Still, if you pick over the various MP5/10 shooting range videos on youtube (especially where the 2-round-burst setting is used), you'll see that the recoil of the MP5/10 doesn't appear to be anything significant. A terminal ballistics specialist by the name of Dr. Gary Roberts even called it [http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1376584&postcount=109 "probably the most interesting and effective SMG ever made."]--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:51, 22 January 2013 (EST)
Yea I was some what mistaken there, the 'Firearms Training Unit (FTU) experts at Quantico, Virginia, determined that the 10mm was the best-performing law-enforcement cartridge of all autoloader rounds then available on the market' how ever the recoil was deemed by the 'that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification' and once the 40 s&w hit the market it was adopted in its place [http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html sorry I should have checked my facts before posting (I was half way right).
Error creating thumbnail: File missingHeckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with mounted M203 grenade launcher 40mm as used by Arnold Schwarzenegger's character Jericho Cane in the film End of Days.Error creating thumbnail: File missingScreen used prop Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm. This non-firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film Salt. The gun is constructed of rubber and was used during parts of the barge sequence where the live firing gun was unecessary. This item is currently being sold by The Golden Closet; see this link.Error creating thumbnail: File missingScreen used prop Heckler & Koch SP89 - 9x19mm. This non-firing plastic prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film Salt. The replica SP89 was used as a stand in for the virtually identical live firing MP5K used earlier in the sequence and was used onscreen when Winter throws the gun away. The tip was slightly damaged during the throw and is in otherwise good condition. This item is currently being sold by The Golden Closet; see this link.
As you can tell, I deleted the section on early MP5s, for two reasons:
(1.) It's unlikely early MP5s appear in movies or TV, simply because those models are quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany. If you go to HKPRO's MP5 page, you can see what the earliest MP5s looked like.
(2.) The pictures were not early MP5s (one was an MP5A2 taken by MPM, which has since been moved to the MP5A2 section, the other was an A3 with a straight mag and older convex-style buttplate).
If anyone wants to restore it, please just copy and paste the code from an earlier revision; I made some other revisions that are important to keep. Don't undo all of my recent edits. Thanks. -MT2008 03:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
I've never seen a movie with the original HK54s, so I agree. If someone did want to put it on though, they have it on World Guns. -GM
I restored it, for three reasons: 1. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that a weapon has to be common to deserve inclusion. If that was a valid criterion a considerable number of the gun articles/sections on this site never would've been created. 2. The MP-54 is in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl, so what if it's a video game, this site covers those too. 3. People editing that article take one look at "MP-54" and assume it's a typo, because even if they do their research by looking at this article, they find no such weapon and so conclude that it doesn't exist. --MattyDienhoff 13:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I checked your page for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. That doesn't look to me like an MP-54; it looks more like a regular MP5A3 with an open front sight. Such sights do exist as after-market accessories for the MP5. However, seeing as it's a game, it could also just be an artistic decision made by the gun modeler. But it's definitely not supposed to be an MP-54; notice it has the wrong rear sight and hand guards for the -54. -MT2008
The page for Biggles: Adventures in Time (1986) mentions "old spec MP5's with staight magazines"; whether they're actual vintage early MP5s, I know not. British television and film productions might well use these guns. I worry about the deletion of the early section; it's going to clumsy to put it back when someone spots an early MP5, and someone will spot an early MP5 at some point. One will appear in the background of The Professionals or Who Dares Wins; and although it may be true that they are "quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany", this database doesn't exclude German television programmes. I understand that German television has historically not been too keen on guns, but there must have been German cop dramas and television films and indeed theatrical films in the 1970s. -Ashley Pomeroy 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Why not put the 'fake' MP5s on the HK94 section?
It technically runs counter to common practice on IMFDB by putting the gun in the section of the weapon it's 'impersonating' rather than the real section. Case in point. We put fake M16A2s (that are A1s with A2 handguards) in the M16A1 section ... NOT the M16A2 section, even though that is the gun it is impersonating. Why don't we put the appearances of the C&C HK94s in the HK94 section? MoviePropMaster2008 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm, I didn't notice that this wasn't being done. But yes, I agree, all C&C HK94s impersonating MP5s should go in the HK94 section. -MT2008
Pay no attention to what I just edited out, I was being stupid.-protoAuthor
Heckler & Koch MP5K's with the foregrips removed
What is the point of MP5K's with the fore grips removed appearing in movies? you don't have a grip, and could burn you hand if you have been shooting
What? Speak english for me please.-Oliveira 20:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Better?
Yes. On topic, they are used as if they are machine pistols. Look at the Third Matrix movie page on this site. They are used in that movie. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ on the end of every message.-Oliveira 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
"Used as if they are machine pistols"? That would still apply even if the MP5Ks had foregrips but were being dual-wielded like in those scenes. In fact, MP5Ks (as opposed to MP5K-PDWs) are machine pistols, just relatively bulky ones (compared to models like the Glock 18) due to their lack of a buttstock (like the M93 Raffica). --Mazryonh 14:31, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
SP-10 / MP-10 is also the PXP-10
Coharie Arms is the current producer of the SP-10 / MP-10 and its model is now designated as the PXP-10 (although the MP-10 designation is still in effect for fully automatic builds). Their are some slight changes since the SP-10 production. Specifically, the texturing was altered and mounting screws were added on the lower foregrip. Additionally, the tint of the plastic may have changed as well. Coharie has recently announced that the tooling is up for sale.
U.S. Police MP5 stocks
What is the most common stock type used by U.S. Police departments; the A2 type or the A3 type?
That is almost impossible to tell. I've seen both in my local, county and State police SWAT teams so both are used in all police department. The better question would be are there any US police department that uses the MP5K? Excalibur01 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
According to the picture about half way down the page, the Northeast Metro Law Enforcement Council Special Operations Unit in Massachusetts does. [1] --funkychinaman 03:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
MP5F Redundancy?
Do we really need a section for the MP5F? It seems highly unlikely that this model would be used in films or television, and visually distinguishing it from an MP5A3 or MP5A5 would be practically impossible. The only external indicator would be the stock, and that can be interchanged with other MP5 variants. The section claims that this model is internally modified to handle high-pressure ammo, which would be irrelevant for a blank-adapted weapon seen on-screen. If you ask me, having a section for the MP5F would be like having a section for the US military's M9 Beretta on the Beretta 92 page. Orca1 9904 19:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
No contest, nuke it. From what I understand unless the gun image came directly from a movie armorer, if the weapon has not appeared in anything than it has no right to be on IMFDB. --AdAstra2009 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Just to add, there are actually some other exterior differences other than the stock. If by some miracle you can see the receiver markings on the spine in a movie, they will simply read HK MP5 rather than HK MP5-N. More realistically, you can also tell the difference by the front sling loop. On the original MP5s there is only a sling eye on the left hand side, mounted as the end of a pin. On the MP5F however, there is a sling loop on either side of the barrel, lower than the single loop on the standard MP5s. The original sling loop pin is replaced with a regular pin, and a "saddle" type mount for the sling loops is mounted under the barrel, placing the sling loops level with the centre of the barrel rather than above it as in the original MP5s. --commando552 17:32, 19 May 2011 (CDT)
MP5/10
Could the MP5/10 be fitted with an MP5A3-style telescoping stock? MrOshimida27 00:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
I believe so, I remember seeing MP5/10s with collapsible stocks. StanTheMan 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Only the really cool ones :) plus if you google it, the very first picture of one has a telescoping stock. God bless Jeff Cooper and his 10mm. --Spades of Columbia 17:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
MP5K without sights
In a couple of shows (only one I can think of right now is Ultimate Force) a version of the MP5K can be seen that appears to have no sights aside from a vestigial post at the front, and possibly a simple notch at the back. Anyone know if this was an actual version that was made a or a modification? As a side note, this version was actually used in real life by the British SAS, and can be seen in several "publicity" (for lack of a better term) photos taken during a training exercise.
Also, does anyone know if the single fire MP5 versions (Not chopped HK94s, but the things with paddle magazine releases and 3-lug muzzles, and with regular SEF or Navy trigger groups just missing the FA position) were ever available to the public as I think I have spotted a couple in something. --commando552 17:37, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
Bloody typical, immediately after I ask the question I find out that it an MP5KA1 (or MP5KA5 with 3 round burst added), and has low profile fixed pistol type sight for use when worn under clothing to prevent snagging. Does this deserve its own entry on the main page, as the visual differances between the K and KA1 are more than the difference between a MP5A2 and MP5A4. --commando552 18:03, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
Yes, the MP5KA1 should get its own section, although I'm not sure it's all that common (Ultimate Force is so far the only media appearance of this variant that I've seen).
And to answer your other question: In the U.S., the MP5SF (the semi-only versions) would not be legal for public ownership. The MP5SF is just a standard mil-spec/LE MP5 that has had its lower receiver swapped out for the SF trigger group; any of the burst/auto-fire lowers can be installed quickly, which means that legally, it is still a machine gun. And if it has a short barrel with the attachment lugs, it would also be an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle). The reason that the HK94 and other MP5 semi-auto clones don't have the paddle mag releases is because the semi-auto lower receiver is permanently attached to the upper so that a select-fire lower can never be installed. -MT2008 10:04, 19 July 2011 (CDT)
MP5KN
I think, the gun labeled as "MP5KN" in the MP5K section is just an MP5K fitted with a Navy trigger pack. The real KN has an extended barrel, like the PDW. Anyone agree with this? - bozitojugg3rn4ut 13:53, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
I agree, have been meaning to change it for a while but keep forgetting about it. Below is an actual MP5KN (well not exactly as the only ones in existence were issued to the US Navy, but this one is a Navy lower MP5K that someone has fitted with a rare genuine MP5KN barrel so is as close as you will ever get). --commando552 14:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
Rather curious why Heckler & Koch haven't made MP5K with threaded barrel in the first place... --Masterius 03:25, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Suitcase gun
I was looking at the pictures of the MP5's at the top of this page, and the one of the MP5K in the specially-made suitcase got me wondering-wouldn't that be very hard to aim properly? No iron sights, firing from the shin...and who uses it anyway? CIA, MI6, FSD (I think that's the Russian security service). And say you wanted to buy one, where would you buy it? I doubt from a normal H&K weapons shop. And how much would it even cost, assuming it hasn't been banned in loads of places? Why has this even been made? I mean, I am very interested in guns-that-don't-look-like-guns. I just wonder, have there been suitcase guns before this? If so, did anyone ever actually use them, and can legally talk about it? Can anyone else tell me about any guns out there that are disguised as something else? Always interested...Alasdair.
Supposedly HK offered it to private security firms for use by bodyguards; given you can't reload it without opening the case anyway, I assume it's only designed for use against someone who jumps your VIP at extremely close range where just pointing the case and shooting is all you're going to need. No idea if anyone ever seriously used one, mind. Evil Tim 03:50, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
It was used by the British SAS for close protection (they had it, don't know if they actually used it seriously though). The taught way to aim it was to brace the end of the case (the opposite end to the barrel obviously) horizontally across your chest. You can see pics of it being used here, along with pictures of the more practical (IMHO) MP5K bag, which allows you to access the selector, as well as being more naturally "pointable". These did get around a bit, 22 MP5Ks in the briefcase were found by US soldiers as part of an arms cache in Baghdad in 2003. The same arms cache also had a gold plated MP5SD6. If you google it you can find a few places selling them, with the prices being up to $4,000 for the case not including the gun, with about $2,500 apparently being about the average they go for these days.--commando552 04:43, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Ah, O.K. Thanks. I once heard something about camera guns, though. Anyone know anything about them? Alasdair.
Guns with cameras or guns in cameras? Evil Tim 07:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
MP5 side folding stock?
Where do MP5s with the side folding UMP style stock go, MP5A3 section? --commando552 16:49, 11 May 2012 (CDT)
Depends on the trigger group. This one has the SEF, which tells that used to be either an A2 or A3. However, I'm not sure that it would into either category with the UMP stock. I would probably place it in the MP5A3 due to it being more similar to the extending stock than the solid.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:14, 11 May 2012 (CDT)
MP5F?
Firstly the MP5F is such a minor variant of the MP5A5 that I don't think it deserves its own section, and secondly that isn't a picture of an MP5F. The only external differences (the major differences are internal to allow it to fire particularly powerful ammunition) are the double sided front sling loop and the redesigned stock, neither of which are present on this gun. Or am I missing something and the MP5F refers to a different model with the PDW stock? --commando552 18:48, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
While I cant really tell the difference between the MP5F and MP5A3 here is a picture of it. Mr.Ice 18:54, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
HK SMG series
The SMG series weapons are totally different to the MP5 series, the only thing they have in commen is that the SMG series can use regular MP5 mags --DAN11 (talk) 12:15, 16 December 2012 (EST)
Because if you read about the development of the H&K SMG 1 & 2 they are a development from the HK54A1 and that is an atempt to create a product improved MP5. In essence the SMG 1 is an evolutionary firearm between the MP5 series and the UMP series of firearms. We put it in with the MP5 for convenience sake.Rockwolf66 (talk) 13:21, 16 December 2012 (EST)
Yes I have read about it... still different technology at all --DAN11 (talk) 13:35, 16 December 2012 (EST)
Couple Questions about full-auto conversion
A. On a firearm that has been converted from semi-automatic to full-auto, does the safety still work?
B. When converting a semi-auto to full-auto, can you control the rate of fire, or is that predetermined by other factors?
A. Yes, the safety should still work after a FA conversion.
B. you can somewhat control the rate of fire based on the weight of the bolt, the tensile weight of the recoil springs and what ammo you use.
Both of those statements are based around a theoretical FA conversion. Such conversions are restricted to someone with a SOT license.Rockwolf66 (talk) 18:33, 25 December 2012 (EST)
.45 ACP
Why wasn't a version of the MP5 firing this round ever made? Spartan198 (talk) 18:44, 31 December 2012 (EST)
Not enough demand for mass production. Bill Flemming made the first conversions and the now Defunct Special weapons company made both HK94 and SP89 clones in .45ACP. Still they are both rare as hens teeth.Rockwolf66 (talk) 19:52, 31 December 2012 (EST)
There is a .45 MP5. It's called the UMP Excalibur01 (talk) 10:53, 21 January 2013 (EST)
The UMP is not roller locked and I think it uses a different trigger pack design( or at least a modified) + it has a completely different body design and material therefore the UMP is a totally different concept even when it evolved from the PIP (same for the HK SMG series). -DAN11 (talk) 18:19, 21 January 2013 (EST)
I wonder why the 10mm MP5 didn't become more popular because of the 10mm's power over other pistol calibers Excalibur01 (talk) 23:22, 21 January 2013 (EST)
The FBI hostage rescue team used it but they felt that the recoil was to great for it to be used even in controlled bursts. Blackguineapig (talk) 14:09, 22 January 2013 (EST)
A cartridge's technical advantages aren't enough in and of themselves to win over potential major supporters like national LEO agencies. Still, if you pick over the various MP5/10 shooting range videos on youtube (especially where the 2-round-burst setting is used), you'll see that the recoil of the MP5/10 doesn't appear to be anything significant. A terminal ballistics specialist by the name of Dr. Gary Roberts even called it "probably the most interesting and effective SMG ever made."--Mazryonh (talk) 22:51, 22 January 2013 (EST)
Yea I was some what mistaken there, the 'Firearms Training Unit (FTU) experts at Quantico, Virginia, determined that the 10mm was the best-performing law-enforcement cartridge of all autoloader rounds then available on the market' how ever the recoil was deemed by the 'that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification' and once the 40 s&w hit the market it was adopted in its place [http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html sorry I should have checked my facts before posting (I was half way right).
