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Talk:Red Dawn (1984): Difference between revisions

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Please help confirm ID: Ruger or Remington?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:23, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
Please help confirm ID: Ruger or Remington?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 20:23, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
I don't have an open source photo.  The screen cap shows: Ruger 77 scope mounts integral to the receiver, the slightly dog-leg Ruger bolt handle, which is difficult to discern at this angle, and the short, light barrel and stock with forend tip that are distinctive features of the Ruger 77 Ultra Light Rifle..--[[User:Sg688|Sg688]] ([[User talk:Sg688|talk]]) 23:52, 2 November 2012 (EDT)




Revision as of 03:52, 3 November 2012

Morris's Market Section

Hi, after rediscovering this old gem of Swayze's (rest in peace, old sport), I thought the Morris's Market section could be expanded just a tad. While the lighting is indeed too dark to make out the guns on the rack in Morris's Market, the actor playing Robert Morris's father does in fact talk about the calibers of the guns he's handing out. I can just make out something along the lines of ".30-08, .38 Special, get that 12-Gauge!" and there is also a nice shot when one of the actors is stuffing box after box of ammunition into a bigger cardboard box. I don't have the DVD right now, but that particular shot would make for a nice screenshot to add to this entry--are those ammunition boxes from real-life companies in business at the time the movie was made? The only company name I can recognize is "Remington," though the boxes do in fact display their calibers, such as .22 LR, .38 Special, and a few are also marked .308 as well.

Also, Robert's father hands the group two shotguns just before they leave the shop--which of those ends up being Robert Morris's primary weapon through the rest of the film? I'd appreciate it if anyone could come up with the necessary screenshots and appropriate additions to this old classic's page. Can't wait to see if they pull the same "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers" joke in the remake of this film. Great work setting up and maintaining this wiki, guys!

I was going to mention the fact of Mr. Morris (Roy Jensen) mentioning calibers during the Morris Market scenes. He does call out ".38 Special, .308" as he's pushing boxes across the counter, when he tells the boys not load up on "cookies, candy and crap", just dry and canned goods, so I'm presuming that .308 Winchester is the caliber of Jed's Savage 110. Matt is seen opening the cylinder of a DA revolver he carries in the scenes just before the raid on the train station at the end of the movie, and then closing the cylinder (and, impressively, he closes the cylinder with his hand rather than the "dramatic" flicking it closed that is hard on the lockwork and returns the revolver to his holster). Presumably this then is a .38 Special caliber revolver, or a .357 Magnum loaded with .38 Special.

Nice Work

Great revamp MPM, the page looks much more completed now. - Gunmaster45

Protected from anonymous edits

I protected it from the same anonymous user who keeps making changes when I'm in the middle of a revamp, and his edits are a bit clumsy (like not bothering to realign images of guns from RIGHT to NONE, and sometimes putting the WRONG image in the gun section). Also there is a method to my madness, I am gearing up to put shots of Red Dawn mockup guns in place, so I don't want anonymous users endless making changes that I'm going to have to get rid of during the next revamp of the page. MoviePropMaster2008 06:53, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

If you are done with your revamp could you please unprotect the page so I can add more pictures,please. BOB

You are a new user, you have no track record, we have no idea what you are going to put on this page, and it has been protected because of inane edits by anonymous and new users. If possible, can you propose what changes you want on the talk page? MoviePropMaster2008 03:01, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I have some pictures for the AKM and AKS-74.User:AK-74Fan

And you missed a gun, MPM. One Cuban army officer uses an Makarov PM in the last battle. The one who gets hit by the RPG backblast.--Oliveira 16:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that was a Makarov. If I remember it looked closer to a PPK or SIG P230. Charon68 21:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I've got a picture of that, along with 13 or 14 others I could add if the page were unprotected.User:AK-74Fan 11, October 2009 11:09 AM

That is why the page is protected. To keep people from adding too many images against the wishes of the people who spent a great deal of time and effort to create the page. You may have seen pages with tons and tons of screencaps. Those are not mine and I have in the past argued strongly against it. But other people took the time to create those pages, so I won't edit them for the sake of length. IMFDB is starting to look like many states' legislative codes, everything is added and nothing is deleted. to the OP, build some awesome looking pages and I'll consider it. But we can no longer be so lenient on everyone, especially since so many new members do crap screencaps, or lame pages, or wrong info or just have no sense when it comes to making a decent looking page. Sorry that the sins of others affect everyone, but you will understand. On the pistol, Thanks for the heads up Oliviera. I will check it out. MoviePropMaster2008 22:40, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Funny

Odd isn't it, Modern Warfare 2 also features Russian paratroopers taking over American cities. so I guess Red Dawn has finally made a name for itself, spawning a large plot point for one of the finest video games of all time. nice work Swayze. M14fanboy

You mean Call of Grenades: Action Movie Warfare 2? Yeah, that's a whole sale ripoff, dude. Did you not notice the "WOLVERINES" tag at the beginning of the level or something? Fun drinking game, take a drink every time they rip off a movie, reference Generation Kill, or say OSCAR MIKE, two drinks if it's an inappropriate use.-protoAuthor 03:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
This is a TRULY great post... lol. Seems like every time I play MW2 or CoD4 I see another segment where they've ripped off Black Hawk Down, Generation Kill, or something similar. It's really tiresome after a while; there's plenty of original content to be had with this genre, why don't they just leave the war movies alone? Bah. 70.197.109.68 05:56, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Ahem, you're assuming the players are OLD enough to drink. We don't want to encourage underage drinking. :) MoviePropMaster2008 04:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Dude, you would be dead from alchohol poisoning 20 minutes into the game-S&Wshooter 04:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
If people took a drink with all that, there would be a shit load of dead twelve year olds all across the world. M14fanboy

I'm more inclined to think of the "Wolverines!" level as an homage rather than a rip off, because aside from the parachuting Russians falling on suburban America, it had little if anything at all else in common with the events of Red Dawn (can any of the locales in Red Dawn even be called "suburban"?). Now, if you were playing as high-school students with AKs and your objective was to flee into the mountains, then yes, I'd consider it a rip off. Spartan198 15:22, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I am also an editor on serveral video game wikias and i just can't stand when some asshole fucks up every weapons page on the site because they think they know what guns just because they play this stupid game. every time a bomb goes off in this game, American youth gets more assholish. Damn you Modern Warfare 2! - Kilgore 02:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Remake

I am quite curious what the weapons load out will be for the remake they are shooting right now especially given the fact that eastern bloc weapons are now more readily available (including armour) than they were in the 1980's. --Charon68 23:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Go to the forum, we got a whole thread about it. And it's the Chinese instead of the Russians and they are using AK-101s or something like that. Excalibur01 00:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, some of the pictures at the forum do show pics of soldiers with Russian Federation shoulder patches. I still wish they could have he Chinese using Norinco QB-series weapons instead of inaccurate Kalashnikov-series weapons. As far as armor, I don't see why they couldn't mock up a T72 to resemble the Chinese Type 99 or Russian T90 since they're both based on the T72 platform. Orca1 9904 01:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually when I mentioned armour I referred to the fact that all the "Soviet" armour in the original were mockups built on old M48 Patton tank chasis (I believe). I remember a story I read that the replica T72 in the original was so authentic that some CIA agents allegedly questioned the movie makers as to where it came from.--Charon68 01:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, the CIA guys were questioning the crew about the gunships from the canyon scene. Anyway, http://www.reddawn2010.com/ is an unofficial fansite devoted to the remake. It's got lots of videos and pics of the production so far and they update at least once a week; there's plenty of opportunity to snuff out the equipment there.--ZeoRanger5 12:29, 2 December 2009
Who's making the remake and where? I ask because that M1 Abrams doesn't look like an Abrams to me. 6 roadwheels, not 7, and the front of the hull...looks like an old british army cheiftain to me (which are readily avaliable since they were removed from active and then reserve service in '98 and '96 respectivily)
Sorry to nitpick here but if you look at this article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dawn it mentions the T-72 specifically. No mention of the Hinds. --Charon68 01:55, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

A remake? Remakes should never be done of classic movies (The Getaway, War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, Red River, The Alamo, King Kong just for starters) and Red Dawn is a classic. Looking at that website, I'm guessing this remake is going to suck. The Chinese invade Michigan huh? Well, filming in Detroit shouldn't even require building any sets, most of it looks like a war zone anyway.

Aardvark

As far as I recall Arturo "Aardvark" Mondragon is addressed by name one other time in the movie. When they boys are escaping town on the way to Morris' Market they pass by Aardvark's wounded father who frantically yells "Arturo" as his son speeds away to safety. After that his name is not mentioned again until his death on the T-72. --Charon68 02:06, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

His father (played by Pepe Serna of The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension and Silverado fame, yells the name and the audience has to figure out that it's Aardvark who is yelling "papa!" from the back of the truck. it's not clear from the FILM that Arturo and Aardvark are the same character. We only know it here, because it's listed here (and on Partisan Rock) which is seen only fleetingly. I saw it in the movie theatre three times. It still wasn't clear then. Then Lea Thompson yells "Aardvark!" when he dies. Again, confusing the audience, since this is the first time he is referred to by that name. Overall it was poor filmmaking/editing to make a major character so confusing. Also Darryl was another character whose identity had to be parsed by the audience over multiple viewings. And I was always getting Darryl confused with Danny (Brad Savage). The filmmakers had a bunch of young (and then pretty much unknown actors) all of whom were brunettes (with the possible exception of Jennifer Grey) and (with the exception of Matt and Jed) were poorly introduced to the audience. We didn't know WHO the hell these kids were by the end of the film, other than cannon fodder for Russian bullets. MoviePropMaster2008 02:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


ZOMFG, I just realized that they have pretty much omitted Aardvark from the remake. No one has been announced as 'cast' for the role. LOL his character was totally unnecessary, kinda like Darryl.

I wouldn't say that Darryl was unnecessary. He and his father represented collaborators, or at least people who are willing to put in the least effort to maintain some semblance of the status quo. His execution demonstrated how Jed and Robert had been hardened by the conflict and now saw the world in black and white. (The original script was more Lord of the Flies-esque.)--funkychinaman 20:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Nicaraguan Captain?

Are we sure the Captain is Nicaraguan? He seemed to work with the Officer that let's Matt and Jed live at the end. I thought he and the captain were Cuban.--Oliveira 23:34, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

You know, if you checked the credits you would have answered your own question. That's what the actors's character is called in the final credit roll. MoviePropMaster2008 02:00, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Excuse me, MPM. When I first saw the film on it's initial release my Peruvian friend said that Ron O'Neal had a very convincing Cuban accent and all things I've read written on the film mention his character was Cuban. Is it possible that in pre-production (hence the credits) the character was Nicaraugan but when Mr O'Neal took the role he transformed the role with Mr Milus' permission to a Cuban? To me one of the film's great strengths are his and former Russian linguist William Smith's professional and sympathetic performances in the enemy roles that give the film a lot more depth.Foofbun 22:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
You're excused Foofbun ;) But I was talking about Judd Omen's character, not Ron O'Neal's. Judd Omen played The Nicaraguan Captain. Ron O'Neal played a Colonel, not a Captain, so it's obvious we were not talking about him. Ron O'Neil played Colonel Ernesto Bella who was indeed Cuban. MoviePropMaster2008 00:32, 23 April 2012 (CDT)

A possible edition to the section on the T-72's

I was reading the Wikipedia article on the movie and apparently(according to a Soldier of Fortune Magazine article about the film) the mock up T-72's were so realistic that when someone saw them being taken from the company that made them to the studio during pre production the CIA sent agents to the studio to find out were they came from. That is an interesting tidbit that I think would be important enough to mention in the article. But I don't want to do it without permission or without a consensus of the people who have worked on this page.

During the snow scene, there was a M1 Abrams engaging the two T-72s (and kept on missing the target until Col. Tanner marked the last tank with a smoke grenade). I doubt they would have access to a real Abram so this is obviously a mock up too. Any information on this vehicle?--Wildcards 18:21, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

Spetsnaz or VDV?

From what I've read on Cold War era Spetsnaz, they were a very secretive branch that took great care to remain anonymous, such as wearing the uniforms of other branches (such as the VDV) in the field. In light of this, are Colonel Strelnikov's soldiers supposed to be Spetsnaz in VDV uniforms or real VDV? If the former, I can't see them announcing their presence like they did in the movie; on the other hand, Millius probably didn't have all that much info on them when the movie was made.

They were technically just dressed as Soviet Airborne infantry. Though Everyone KNEW what Spetnaz was after the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. MoviePropMaster2008 03:56, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
In addition, and if I remember correctly, Spetsnaz teams were part of "normal" Soviet era Airborne/SF units and were detached on an as needed basis. That way, in a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, way (a la the Combat Applications Group or DEVGRU) these otherwise "normal" troopers can carry on everyday duties without drawing any undue attention. --Charon68 23:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

This is an 80's American Movie about Commies invading America. Since we didn't ask Ivan for some props or used uniforms, we just made what we thought Americans would think is a Soviet uniform of that era. - Kilgore 02:23, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Milius did A LOT of research for this film. As I recall, at no time does Strelnikov's unit describe itself as Spetnaz. They wear the SAME uniform as the airborne troops as not to call attention to themselves. That is correct. I actually have uniforms from the production and I was thinking about posting detailed images of how the 'made up uniforms' differed from the real thing (which became available AFTER 1990). The film was released in 1984 but filming was in 1983. The DOD was really secretive about how much info they had on the Soviet Union. Anyway, I don't know if costume commentary is germane to the page so I left it out. :) MoviePropMaster2008 21:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


I know I'd be interested in the uniforms info MPM. It'd be great if you could take the time to post it here in the talk page so those interested could look at it. Random trivia like that is cool stuff.-Ranger01 23:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Spetsnaz GRU has been and remains part of the airborne troops (but reports directly to the General Staff). Spetsnaz GRU, in most cases, there is a uniform of the airborne troops (blue beret). But there were exceptions. My friend, who served in the GRU special forces in East Germany in the mid-1980's, most of the troops wore uniforms of chemical protection troops. It was for reasons of secrecy. Slow Rider 08:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Reference image

This is an M8A1 Cargo Tractor.

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This was the chassis used for the fake T-72 and ZSU. Evil Tim 01:01, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

Well I suppose that the guys at Veluzat don't know their vehicles now do they? In the DVD features, the guys explicitly state that they cut up an M48 for the vehicles, but your image proves that the upper bogey wheels (4) match the RD vehicles better than the M48 (which has 5). MoviePropMaster2008 01:36, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
I wonder if the Abram that briefly showed up during the snow battle with the T-72 is based on the same chassis.--Wildcards 01:57, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
From what I can gather, yes it is. Evil Tim 01:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Spoilers

I took the liberty to remove some spoilers that had nothing to do with the actual guns. Hope that's OK. Sentient6 06:11, 23 April 2012 (CDT)

Found this elsewhere

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40mm Bofors gun there. Anyone got the DVD to get a better quality cap in the right aspect ratio? Evil Tim 05:57, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

I can take a look. I don't suppose you know approximately when in the film is shows up, do you? --Funkychinaman 10:20, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

Fake AKS74

I wonder why they weren't used in more films, they look a lot more convincing than a lot of the other fakes that were made, I mean they even have the right stock on them! --cool-breeze 12:03, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

Jed's rifle

Patrick Swayze's rifle is currently listed as a Remington 700. I think it is a Ruger 77 carbine. Look for the scope bases integral to the receiver.--Sg688 22:25, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

Please help confirm ID: Ruger or Remington? --Ben41 (talk) 20:23, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

I don't have an open source photo. The screen cap shows: Ruger 77 scope mounts integral to the receiver, the slightly dog-leg Ruger bolt handle, which is difficult to discern at this angle, and the short, light barrel and stock with forend tip that are distinctive features of the Ruger 77 Ultra Light Rifle..--Sg688 (talk) 23:52, 2 November 2012 (EDT)


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Remington 700 .308 Winchester
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Any ideas as to the original vehicle for the fake BTR-60s?

mpm

I believe the top of it is made for the movie, but the base is a truck chassis. It is supposedly one of a series of experimental US Army trucks in the late 50s and early 60s which were intended to replace the deuce and a half. This is the XM453E2 which was manufactured by Ford:

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I think this could be the truck it is based on, or a relative. The spacing of the wheels looks about right, and the design of the hubs is a match. --commando552 (talk) 16:47, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Well Veluzat custom made ALL of the tops of the fake vehicles. But I think you may have NAILED IT regarding the base truck model. Good job. I'm discovering that Veluzat would almost always favor relatively common obsolete American made vehicles for all of their builds. Good Job Commando552. I visited the IMCDB site and had to laugh. Those guys actually think they used REAL BTR-60s ..... in the early 1980s! Yeah right. We couldn't get real Russian made firearms back then, much less any surplus vehicles. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
Is it just me, or does gap between the two sets of wheels appears to be wider in the fake BTR than with the truck? --Funkychinaman (talk) 04:19, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
It's a pretty straightforward procedure to stretch out a vehicle, especially if you have the means to completely fabricate a metal body from scratch. The fact that the tyres and hubs look identical is enough for me.--Leigh Burne (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
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