Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 09:59, 18 October 2011

Discussion

Oh God, another Call of Duty. BeardedHoplite 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -User:1morey May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -User:Timaman May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. Timaman 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. Alex T Snow 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

Title

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. bozitojugg3rn4ut 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --RaNgeR 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Issues

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? The Wierd It 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. The Wierd It 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate User:SeanWolf

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --HashiriyaR32 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. Draco122 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.

You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --HashiriyaR32 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?

Yes, it is. EoTech makes optics specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. The Wierd It 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

cool, I never knew that. Thanks

Winchester Model 1887

What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - User:1morey May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.

Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. Swamples 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.

I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. Evil Tim 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.Halorocka888 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. Evil Tim 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).Halorocka888 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" Evil Tim 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.Halorocka888 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. Evil Tim 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. Halorocka888 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes Black look positively restrained. Evil Tim 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other sensible new age weapons. - Mr. Wolf 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Halorocka888 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. Evil Tim 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said, agree to disagree, not going anywhere. Halorocka888 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have different advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that do offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a different manual action. Evil Tim 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. Halorocka888 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

The use of the 1887s in MW2 does make sense to some degree. a lot of countries have strict laws concerning shotguns, some even banning those that have more than two shots like Australia does. though Australia does have loopholes allowing the use of bolt action shotguns AND lever action shotguns like the beautiful model 1887 and the clones. Seeing that a piece of MW2 takes place in Brazil where the 1887s are first encountered, plus the fact that we don't know what the firearm laws are for that country in the MW2 world, and the fact that it's used by the unified Rio de Janeiro gang members who probably use whatever Brazil actually allows... then it makes complete sense. that being said, Brazil also makes many reproductions of existing brands like the Beretta 92f. One can easily argue that in the game, the country is doing the same and even making reproductions of the 1887. And since the gang is now organized, they could easily raid said weapons from the manufacturers. besides... the fact of the matter is that (atleast from what i remember)it's mostly the Brazilian gangs that use that shotgun, the only other place you can find it being under in the weapons cache while holding out in the house until all the data from the computer is transfered and that can be attributed to a person with a healthy obsession with guns... Aztec coyote

Barrett M107/M82 Error

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. Halorocka888 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Gunz

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? bozitojugg3rn4ut 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --RaNgeR 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. Halorocka888 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle Excalibur01 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. Draco122 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? Excalibur01 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. Draco122 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). Halorocka888 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. Halorocka888 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence. I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System. One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? WARthog 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. Halorocka888 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? Evil Tim 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series has done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. Evil Tim 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. Scutshakes 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. Halorocka888 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --Chrausis 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. Halorocka888 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. Halorocka888 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --Chrausis 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? Halorocka888 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

HELL YEAH

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. Halorocka888 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

The tossed magazine doesnt look right

In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. Halorocka888 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. Alex T Snow 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

Plot Holes

So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. BeardedHoplite 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--N-10 Aden 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if very unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... Spanner

Guns

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --Werc 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. Halorocka888 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. Halorocka888 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. TheTrueNight 12:12, 14 June 2011

Pistols

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.----JazzBlackBelt-- 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Nope, you're not the only one. I'm slightly disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --Clutch 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... Scutshakes 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. Halorocka888 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.PP7Silenced 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my semi-automatic handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - Mr. Wolf 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. Alex T Snow 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie Collateral, because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - Mr. Wolf 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.----JazzBlackBelt-- 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. BeardedHoplite 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. Halorocka888 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. Alex T Snow 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - Mr. Wolf 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. Halorocka888 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

I know, just say'n. - Mr. Wolf 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. Halorocka888 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. Alex T Snow 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.PP7Silenced 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P Rhainor 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

M4A1

Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a AR-10 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.

Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - Mr. Wolf 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? Draco122 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Well that's just dumb. :/ - Mr. Wolf 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. Draco122 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

I doubt that. :/ - Mr. Wolf 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. Halorocka888 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - Mr. Wolf 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. Halorocka888 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. Scutshakes 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. Halorocka888 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Cover Art

What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --Timaman 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. Halorocka888 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. Timaman 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. Halorocka888 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. Timaman 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

MP5SD2

I think there was NO MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [1] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. Spartan198 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Err... Guys?

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. The Wierd It 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. Evil Tim 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? Alex T Snow 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. Evil Tim 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. Halorocka888 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Flip-Up Sights

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. Killerpixel 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. Evil Tim 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. Killerpixel 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. Killerpixel 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! Halorocka888 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Samopal Vzor 58

In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

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Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.

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Czech Sa. vz. 58P (Pěchotní aka "Infantry") with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. Halorocka888 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

New Weapons Confirmed

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--DaiTaNam 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. Halorocka888 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --DaiTaNam 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P Alex T Snow 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. Halorocka888 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. Alex T Snow 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. Halorocka888 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. Alex T Snow 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --DaiTaNam 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... Spartan198 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Controversy

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3

The Wierd It 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. Halorocka888 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. Killerpixel 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. Alex T Snow 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. Timaman 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. Spartan198 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Unknown Ak Variant

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) Halorocka888 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. Halorocka888 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --RaNgeR 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. Halorocka888 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Call Of Duty: Elite

Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... Alex T Snow 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. Halorocka888 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. DeltaOne 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. Halorocka888 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.----JazzBlackBelt-- 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. Alex T Snow 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. Halorocka888 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) Alex T Snow 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. DeltaOne 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! Halorocka888 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.----JazzBlackBelt-- 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. Spartan198 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet?

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back. File:TDI Vector.jpg --Mattatack92 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! Halorocka888 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. Timaman 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - Mr. Wolf 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

E3 Footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --Ferrariguy1000 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --DaiTaNam 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --DaiTaNam 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. Halorocka888 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).

Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - bozitojugg3rn4ut 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.----JazzBlackBelt-- 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. Timaman 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.Rockwolf66 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... Alex T Snow 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --DaiTaNam 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --Mattatack92 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --Ferrariguy1000 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. Gonzaga 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

^ This would be so awesome --Chrausis 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.----JazzBlackBelt-- 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. Gonzaga 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Glock 18c

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- TheTrueNight

We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.----JazzBlackBelt-- 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- TheTrueNight

Unknown pistol from Late Night footage

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Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --Chrausis 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. Alex T Snow 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --Chrausis 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- TheTrueNight

http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --Chrausis 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.----JazzBlackBelt-- 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --Chrausis 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- TheTrueNight 00:43, 15 June 2011

"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P Alex T Snow 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --Chrausis 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - Mr. Wolf 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --Chrausis 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. Evil Tim 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --Chrausis 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. Gonzaga 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

That would be awesome! Alex T Snow 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

1911 back in MW3

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer File:UMP45-MW3

I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. Alex T Snow 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --Chrausis 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--Chrausis 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. Alex T Snow 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --Chrausis 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --GVK2009 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. Swamples 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. Alex T Snow 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

If the 1911 is coming back it won't be in the multiplayer which saddens me since I destroyed people with it in CoD 4. The BO 1911 was weak as hell and not having one in MW2, besides museum mode, was a bit disappointing. Now that MW3 isn't going to feature one I'm kind of giving up on it in future titles. --TF141-Archer 14:35, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

How do you know it's not in multiplayer? Bear in mind the XP build didn't feature several weapons we know will be in the finished version. The Wierd It 14:42, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

I'm going to have to leave for class in a minute so I can't post it now but there is a youtube video that shows a list of available side-arms for multiplayer and the 1911 wasn't on it. --TF141-Archer 16:31, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

I refer you to my earlier statement. If it was from the XP build then the list isn't necessarily complete. The Wierd It 17:16, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

How can you know that? --TF141-Archer 00:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

I'm inferring from the lack of the FAMAS and the Vector, both confirmed in earlier sources. The Wierd It 01:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

I think Price has said good-bye to the M1911 and hello to the Desert Eagle. Watch the Redemption single-player trailer.

Nope, check his shoulder holster, he still has it :D Most noticable at 0:43 when he slams the guy into the wall and stabs him. Alex T Snow 17:45, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

Weapons Wishlist

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --Chrausis 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --TheTrueNight 18:08, 17 June 2011

Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc Evil Tim 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --TheTrueNight 18:24, 17 June 2011

Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --Chrausis 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.----JazzBlackBelt-- 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... Alex T Snow 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --Chrausis 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I'm so sick of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - Mr. Wolf 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!----JazzBlackBelt-- 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --Chrausis 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - Mr. Wolf 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --Chrausis 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games should be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - Mr. Wolf 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.----JazzBlackBelt-- 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. Spartan198 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. Draco122 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.----JazzBlackBelt-- 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --Rebusdi 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --Rebusdi 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - User:1morey June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - Rhainor 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? Dirtdiver6421 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD Alex T Snow 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) Dirtdiver6421 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - Mr. Wolf 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. Alex T Snow 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

AK-74u

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.----JazzBlackBelt-- 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. Evil Tim 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. Alex T Snow 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.----JazzBlackBelt-- 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun based on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. Evil Tim 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". Alex T Snow 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. Evil Tim 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) Alex T Snow 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.----JazzBlackBelt-- 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. Alex T Snow 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.----JazzBlackBelt-- 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, well said :) Alex T Snow 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --Grimmerc915 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u by the manufacturer, then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. Evil Tim 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--Grimmerc915 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we don't use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). Evil Tim 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--Grimmerc915 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that this AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. Evil Tim 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--Grimmerc915 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--Grimmerc915 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--Grimmerc915 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

You're talking about the fact that the configuration could theoretically be made into a real gun, though. We know of an actual Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on it doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the Predator M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. Evil Tim 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--Grimmerc915 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Call of Duty XP 2011

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).----JazzBlackBelt-- 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --Chrausis 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted?

[2]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel). There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--Ghostdigga 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? Alex T Snow 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --Chrausis 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - Mr. Wolf 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --Chrausis 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original Turok adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. Evil Tim 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --Funkychinaman 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?----JazzBlackBelt-- 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --Chrausis 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? Alex T Snow 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --Chrausis 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. Alex T Snow 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.

Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - ReikoKotobuki

???????

Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.

They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--Grimmerc915 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.----JazzBlackBelt-- 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from official trailers. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is after the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. Evil Tim 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--Grimmerc915 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Survival Mode Trailer

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --DaiTaNam 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --Chrausis 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --DaiTaNam 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT) Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --DaiTaNam 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --Chrausis 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.The Wierd It 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --Chrausis 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.----JazzBlackBelt-- 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - Mr. Wolf 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --HashiriyaR32 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Aww. - Mr. Wolf 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: Clicky! The Wierd It 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --DaiTaNam 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

Colt CM901

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Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. Gonzaga 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --Chrausis 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --RaNgeR 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --Chrausis 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. Run its a T-55 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

For reference, I believe this either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. The Wierd It 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Yes sir that would be it Run its a T-55 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

MP5K!!

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --TheTrueNight

On it. --Chrausis 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. Gonzaga 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --Chrausis 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

What the about the MP5A2? - Mr. Wolf 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --Chrausis 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - Mr. Wolf 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - Mr. Wolf 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.

We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 Excalibur01 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Hehe. :D - Mr. Wolf 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o----JazzBlackBelt-- 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --Chrausis 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

Needs more Tacticool. The Wierd It 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

^ --Chrausis 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

M60E4 could be M60E3

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --RaNgeR 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --Chrausis 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. The Wierd It 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

FAD assault rifle

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [3] --Chrausis 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --commando552 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - Mr. Wolf 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--WARthog 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [4]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --TheTrueNight 02:38, 13 August 2011

Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - Mr. Wolf 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - Mr. Wolf 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.----JazzBlackBelt-- 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. Draco122 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

The GSN-19 is a 30mm grenade launcher dude. :| - Mr. Wolf 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other 30mm Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was 30mm? Draco122 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher" <-(referring to the 30mm GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

Well this is Infinity Ward we're talking about, and they have been known to make alot of things silly in past games, like mounting a M203 or a Shotgun on a TAR-21 without any proper mounting brackets or by having the 7,62 M240 LMG being LESS powerful than the 5,56 L86 LMG which is ungodly powerful. So I wouldn't exactly call it far fetched for them to add a Grenade Launcher to the MP5, it's technically feasible, Treyarch and Infinity ward do seem to have a habit of copying one another in some way. Draco122 06:19, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Purchase Weapons like Black Ops?

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? Draco122 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. WARthog 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --Chrausis 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

One handed grip

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick Slayerofthesand 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

I agree fully.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --Chrausis 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.----JazzBlackBelt-- 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --Chrausis 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - Mr. Wolf 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...----JazzBlackBelt-- 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

lolz. :) - Mr. Wolf 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5Slayerofthesand 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

Old news pal. :\ - Mr. Wolf 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

In Call of Duty if your off-hand is not available it's probably holding another gun. This doesn't seem to be the case so what are we doing, running around with our hand in our pocket? Actually that's less ridiculous than some of the stuff IW has done... USGIMar29

Infinity ward when will you ever learn

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--Gundoiler 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--Gundoiler 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --RaNgeR 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.----JazzBlackBelt-- 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. Alex T Snow 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove Modern Warfare 2 scored more highly because it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. Evil Tim 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

No, one unrealistic game got better review scores than one realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that MW2 is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since Portal 2 has a higher Metacritic score than MW2, first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? Evil Tim 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

Way to miss the point. Evil Tim 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

Wow you just epically failed basic logic there and you didn't sign your posts... -.- Mr. Wolf 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - Mr. Wolf 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

Popular =/= Good. Alex T Snow 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be Excalibur01 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)Gundoiler

Confirmed guns still on Talk page

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):

FN Five-seveN
Magpul FMG-9
Colt M4A1
Customized AK-47
Remington ACR
Heckler & Koch G36C
Winchester Model 1887
AA-12

Hopefully this game turns out really good

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just maybe, a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --ThatoneguyJosh 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. Alex T Snow 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --DaiTaNam 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --TheTrueNight 23:03, 30 August 2011

YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... Alex T Snow 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

That art looks so awesome <3 --Chrausis 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. The Wierd It 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. Alex T Snow 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. The Wierd It 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. Evil Tim 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

New Trailer

Bam. The Wierd It 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. The Wierd It 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --Chrausis 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

In the meantime, here's where someone else stuck it up. The Wierd It 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - Mr. Wolf 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -Rhainor 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. Halorocka888 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- Joey1666

Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked)

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:

1. Mk.46/M249

2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)

3. PP-90M1

4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)

5. AS50

6. Remington MSR

7. Dragunov SVD.

Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) Gonzaga 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*----JazzBlackBelt-- 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --RaNgeR 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't think "some random gaming site" really counts as "official" as per the page. Evil Tim 02:17, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) Draco122 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

weapon list

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --Chrausis 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I think we need to wait until it's a) confirmed and b) there are some pictures. Remember we're about identifying weapons in visual media, not in blog posts. Evil Tim 09:02, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

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M240 in MW3?

I'm not high right? This is the 240B in MW3 isn't it? --Chrausis 11:10, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Hmmm, didn't know they made M240B MAG stocks out of leather... - Mr. Wolf 17:15, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

Cheeky machine gun gameplay

Here is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --Chrausis 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --Spanner

That's not a real MG36, it is a G36KV "mocked up" as an MG36 > note that it has only four vent holes. Similar to the hybrid in Far Cry. And the gayass juggernaut has no weapon? OMG! Oh and one more thing, looks like there will be no emblem editor, just preset images and titles... hmmm... that's what I call regression. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 11:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I thought it looked too short to be an MG36, but that's probably the least concerning thing about it: The sights are wrong, the bipod is wrong, the drum magazine is wrong, not to mention the floppy charging handle during the reload sequence. Sort it out, Sledgehammer. --Chrausis 12:15, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! I was so excited when I read there was an MG36, but... never mind :'( If the 240 is in but not on the list that gives hope to other things being in too, like the FAMAS, "AK-74U", and the M1911. I will be sooooo sad if they don't bring back the 1911 AGAIN. This game is looking, well, like another COD game, but seeing some of the COD4 stuff come back is making me a little hopeful. I also dislike Campaign only weapons, makes me feel cheated out of using them. :/ Alex T Snow 17:08, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't GET campaign only guns. The models are already there, why not just stick them in multiplayer too? Just feels like wasted space. --Chrausis 17:19, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Well, it means they don't have to be balanced for multiplayer use. Games where all the singleplayer weapons are designed to be fair to other players who don't exist are kinda depressing. Evil Tim 02:18, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

True, but the weapons that do feature in both single and multiplayer have different stats. For instance, in Black Ops the RPK had perfectly controllable recoil in single player, however kicked like a mule in multiplayer to make up for the extra 10 rounds in the magazine. They could even recycle the stats from the previous games the weapons have featured in as they were all considered fairly balanced. --Chrausis 05:19, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

The MG36 from Battlefield 2 was also actually a G36KV. The sight rail with built in folding sights looks a lot like one made by Brugger & Thomet.

Speaking of machine guns, I saw a picture of the PK Pecheneg in first person aiming down the sights, and the belt is on the wrong side. Run its a T-55 15:50, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

PP-90M1

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[5] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. Arcdash 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

I fixed that already. - Mr. Wolf 11:08, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

WTF

In the new 'tango down' trailer, there is an m16a4 custom, that looks like a rocket launcher with parts of an m16a4 on it. http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuUIy9snIk-E%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded (you need a YT account to view this)-teobery

Are you talking about the thing at about 45 seconds? looks like a remote ground drone that has a rifle/machine gun in the centre of some sort with missiles firing from the right side. Apart from that the only other thing that looks like a rocket launcher is pretty obviously just a rocket launcher, SMAW I think. --commando552 12:40, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

No, it's at 53. If you look at the bottom right hand corner you see it saying 'm16a4 custom'

Lol that's the M153 SMAW, the reason it says 'M16A4 custom' is that the player has expended their ammo and the game is auto-switching to their primary weapon. --Chrausis 12:58, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

More vids are out

More vids have been released from the XP event. Here's what I've seen.

Brand-new reload animation for the G36C. I can't describe it that well, one of the MP vids for the "Kill Confirmed" game mode features it.
USAS-12 uses the box mag and is restricted to 6 or 8 rounds a mags (couldn't see that well. MW still using pictogram ammo counters)
There are 2 different MP5 pickup icons. One is a stockless MP5K with a 15-rd mag, while the other is a full-size and full-stock MP5 with the 30-rounder.
MP9 has a slightly altered reload animation (character now give the seated mag a tap)

I'll try to grab as many of these vids as I can and get you guys caps if possible. --HashiriyaR32 19:39, 4 September 2011 (CDT)

MP5K is likely placed as a Machine Pistol Option while the MP5 is featured as the Primary Option, if thats the case I can predict people running around with both MP5's. HK Fanboys incoming, not that there's anything wrong HK Draco122 14:17, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

The problem is if people can have machine pistols and SMGs as sidearms, why would anyone use pistols? I do, but almost no one else will. I saw a video where a guy pulled out his FMG9 and got a triple kill in half a mag in one burst. How is that a sidearm??? Alex T Snow 15:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

A lot of people will have ridiculous secondaries anyway thanks to Overkill :\ --Chrausis 16:21, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

The thing that gets me is why does this game have two full-auto shotguns when they're almost identical performance wise? - Mr. Wolf 18:15, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

That's wierd too, but I'll bet they don't shoot farther than 10 feet, so it won't matter that much :/ Alex T Snow 18:52, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

Not to mention that on what information there is on the two auto-shotguns so far, they still only fire from 8 shot box mags...whats the point in having a full auto 12gauge if your mag is empty in two seconds and then you get killed while reloading...they better give em drum mags WARthog 06:45, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

If they get drum mags, I will not be playing this game. The tiny magazines are the only thing that balances them. --Chrausis 08:50, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Alex, the answer to your first comment is that pistols have a much faster draw animation, so they are good for those times where someone's rushing and the gun's magazine runs out. Then, you instantly pull out your pistol and kill th enemy. So basically, they're faster and lighter than anything else, which I believe is their real life purpose. Gonzaga 18:04, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Do we have to talk about this again? The developers don't give a s*** about realism. They prefer to create a game that focus on fun rather than simulation like ARMA\Operation Flashpoint-style games. They don't really care what family of weapons does the MP5K belongs to or how the AK-47 operates or what is the bullet-count of a SVD magazine. You and me and everybody else can turn over the whole world just for this kind of problems, but eventually it won't change a thing. The Call of Duty is a franchise that is intended to the casual players, featuring run-'n-gun/spray-'n-pray style of gameplay, dozen of weapons, crap like perks, killstreaks or whatever, ranking system, challenges, multiplayer service with social-networking in half-payment and the list goes on. --RaNgeR 09:33, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

I pretty much gave up expecting COD to be realistic since MW2. :/ And then I completely gave up all hope after Black Ops. ._. - Mr. Wolf 16:07, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Same here. It's amazing though, how reality can actually make the game better balanced. That's what the BF3's weapon designer is doing, little things like if you attach a suppressor you use subsonic ammo, it travels slower and drops sooner, making longer ranged shots difficult. This should probably be on the BF3 page, but oh well. Alex T Snow 17:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Exactly. And that is the deal: BF3 = Intened to have realistic gameplay. CoD = Keeps casual fun-style gameplay. --RaNgeR 17:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Weapons

I noticed that the guns in this game that have appeared in the other modern warfares have been "modernized". The M4A1 Carbine is a stark example. notice how as they progress, they are more "modernized".

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Modern warfare M4A1 Carbine.

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Modern warfare 2 M4A1.

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Modern Warfare 3 M4A1.

I'd say the MW3 M4A1 is less modern than the first two games, because IT USES A FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :D - Mr. Wolf 18:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Not to mention the same ongoing mistake with the fire selector switch set on Semi-Auto while the weapon's actually fires on auto :\ --RaNgeR 18:56, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

At least his finger isn't on the trigger? That's something, right :D? Aside from a few inaccuracies, this M4A1 still looks far better than whatever they've done to that poor G36KV. --Chrausis 19:21, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

The G36KV is bad, isn't it? Too bad, really too bad. Some cool weapons can be uncool when or if they get to the hands of the wrong people. If developers work with military experts or something like that, so I feel sorry for those guys as they don't look at the minor details. Eventually, the point is that even so MW3 has inaccuracies (as always in the case of CoD), the game gotta be at least better than the previous ones. --RaNgeR 19:38, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry i had to use pictures from this website but i couldnt find any others.- Gunner5

I like the MW1 M4A1, almost stock but with a bit of personality. KAC rail system, 16" barrel, and an old-style stock. Also, the graphics get worse with each one :/ Alex T Snow 00:19, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Actually the graphics get better but they also get more "tacicool", and a FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINE. :\ - Mr. Wolf 03:09, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

LOL. I wounder if the magazine will actually count 30 rounds even though it's a 20-round mag like in Call of Duty: Black Ops (I believe they got the idea from this game, :P) and why they decided to use 20-round in a Modern Warfare-era (duhh!)... OMG! war games can get pretty annoying sometimes. --RaNgeR 03:42, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

It's not a war game, it's an action movie simulator! - Mr. Wolf 04:29, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Haha, "Action Movie Simulator" is what I'm going to call it from now on :D Alex T Snow 04:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Maybe the guy who designed it has just watched 24, and if its good enough for Jack Bauer its good enough for you. --commando552 08:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Well Jack had no choice but to use FREAKIN' 20 ROUND MAGAZINES, the game developers did. :\ - Mr. Wolf 18:28, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Better than 10 round magazines I suppose --Chrausis 19:01, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Even if it was a 10 round magazine IW would make it hold 20 rounds, because you suck and they hate you. :D - Mr. Wolf 19:24, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

I wish you would stop reminding me of this :( --Chrausis 19:40, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Robotic-M249?

I was curious about the robotic-M249, and searched the internet for something similar and found out this:

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The robot is called "TALON" and it has the "SWORDS" system. This robot was produced by Foster-Miller robotic company.

Then I looked at the in-game:

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Could be the same one? --RaNgeR 14:13, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

I will use this at all times, so cool. --Chrausis 18:14, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

Hopefully this will be far less annoying than the RC Car in Black Ops, seriously who thought having a remote controlled bomb which is small and hard to hit be a useful killstreak for a game!? Draco122 06:27, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Actually more like: Who the hell though that there were remote controlled cars in the '60s? :\ --RaNgeR 06:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

It's a 10 point streak and is lol slow from the looks of things, so seems pretty balanced to me. I bet it's really easy to take out. Doesn't stop it being awesome though >:O --Chrausis 06:32, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

KSG-12... Double Barrel???

There's a something recently I've seen on a youtube video of MW3 loadout screen with the KSG is that the KSG operates like a Double barrel shotgun from previous games as it's described as "Double Barrel" on screen. Which has led me to some confusion, I know the weapon is actually a pump action but does this mean that some people are believing that because it uses a dual tube system that is infact some sort of weird pump action double barrel? It's led me to some concern regarding the weapon, but I wanted to hear people's view on what Infinity ward might have mocked this up as? Here is the video link btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAmxpx6bzk&feature=relmfu go to 0:34 to 0:35 to see what I mean Draco122 06:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

I've heard from someone who attended CoD XP that the KSG still operates as a pump action shotgun in MW3, so I don't know if it fires two shells at once? Either way, fail, Sledgehammer :( --Chrausis 07:23, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, there is no Vector, nor Skorpion. Also no M240B nor FAMAS? Wtf? The Skorp and MP5K (if there is at all) will be secondary probably. Also, THANK GOD no Akimbo for primary SMGs, so no gaylords running around with two P90's :) P.S.: DId you notice "MK14". Well better late than never, right? - bozitojugg3rn4ut 10:00, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

I had a feeling that IW was going to screw this shotgun up. :\ - Mr. Wolf 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

It will fire laser portal bullets. Evil Tim 13:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

And be powered by a secret alien micro plasma Arc-reactor from a pocket universe (shhhh, don't tell anybody, it will ruin the games plot) AND it will have a built-in sandvish spawner! . - Mr. Wolf 13:20, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Don't forget the rail-mounted rail mounts with grenade launchers on each. --Chrausis 14:52, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

FAMAS

I really think that the FAMAS on the pic is actually a G36C. The carry handle is too thin and low to be a FAMAS. Not to mention that there will be no FAMAS (at least in the MP). Anyways, I won't remove it from the page till release. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 15:18, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

You very well may be right sir. --Chrausis 16:06, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

I don't think so, carry handle is way too high to be for a G36C, it doesn't have a skeleton stock, and I think you would be able to see the magazine with the position it's in. Also, if it was a G36C there would be handguard in front of the carry handle. Could be that the Norinco QBZ-95 is actually a Norinco QBZ-95B. --commando552 16:59, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

Another possibility. I'd be more inclined to believe it was the QBZ-95B over the QBZ-95, as you say. Then again, it may still be the FAMAS as a placeholder or SP only weapon. --Chrausis 18:12, 13 September 2011 (CDT)

The weapon in that screen is definitely, definitely a FAMAS. Down to the Troy-esque irons from MW2 being visible. It is probably just a placeholder, or they're holding out on us somehow. Still doesn't explain the M240B being spotted in the more recent screenshots released at Cod XP, but not the Multiplayer weapons menu. Either they've made the horrible mistake of making a bunch of weapons SP only for no reason, the weapon list shown at Cod XP wasn't the final build, or these weapons seen in previous CoD games will be available as Prestige Rewards/Veteran Rewards. They've stated that there will be rewards for people who have prestiged in previous MW games. Also, with the Prestige Shop... the sky's the limit. Halorocka888 14:17, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

I am hoping that it isn't the final list, there are quite a few missing that I would very much like in there. Hope Sledgehammer don't pull a dick move and omit them. --Chrausis 17:07, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

*cough* Price's signature M1911 *cough* Alex T Snow 18:44, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

Agreed, I still die a little inside knowing that it was in the Museum in MW2, but not in Multiplayer. To be honest, I really see no reason for them to -not- include all the weapons from previous Modern Warfare games. If they just, carried over the weapon list from CoD4 and MW2 into MW3, that would be an amazing amount of variety in Multiplayer. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. I'd love to use the G3 from CoD4 in MW3, and the FAL from MW2. Halorocka888 23:13, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

As nice as this would be, there would most likely be not enough disc space (aside from PS3) and thus multiplayer would have to be included on another disc. --Chrausis 02:30, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

Well in Black Ops there were really only like two ARs and two SMGs because they pretty much all had the exact same stats, there's no way this could be MORE useless. I'm kinda glad the COD graphics (etc) don't get better, because I still play MW1 and don't feel like I'm missing anything :) Alex T Snow 05:34, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

Thing that gets me is with the FAMAS, G18 (I didn't see it in MP footage, could be on the list), RPD, and the FAL these are the same weapon models from MW2 presumably. But, the AKS-74u and the M240B are unique weapon models for MW3. The last time we saw an AKS-74u-type weapon was in CoD4, there wasn't one at all in MW2 and from the leaked screen, it looks to be a completely new weapon model. So why would they make new weapon models, just to leave them out? The M240's is largely the same, except the way the irons somehow disappear or fold down when using a RDS, which didn't happen IIRC in MW2. Granted, the SVD was a different weapon model in MW2 and they didn't include it... but... just doesn't make sense to me. Halorocka888 09:54, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

The 240's irons do indeed disappear when an optic is attached in MW2, so I guess it's just lifted straight from MW2. Not that that's a bad thing imho --Chrausis 17:03, 15 September 2011 (CDT)

HAAAA! I was right!

I was right when I said that there will be no MP5SD in the game (section #14 on this page). Check out the suppressed A2 here. So gimme my cookies! >< - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:39, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

When you stop being smug and arrogant. The Wierd It 15:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

He's just being silly, not smug and arrogant. (rolls eyes) - Mr. Wolf 01:14, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

If someone was congratulated for saying the COD wiki was wrong this page would be one long backslap. --commando552 04:41, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Hey, we try. Although I did have to correct someone for saying the CM901 was the SP simply because I'd put an SP image on here for lack of a CM at the time. The Wierd It 06:00, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

For the record: I did not mean to hurt the feelings of the COD wiki members. I am sorry if I sounded like that. I only wanted to say that there is no SD2 in the game, not that the COD wiki is being run by nooobs. FYI the COD wiki is far the best gaming wikia on the internet. And IMFDB also has a lots of wrong ID's. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 06:56, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

[6] --Chrausis 09:28, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Not saying anything bad about the COD wiki, but Halopedia(n) is by far the most well done and maintained gaming wiki that I've seen. Alex T Snow 13:07, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

I agree. - Mr. Wolf 21:50, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

Then you haven't seen the Mass Effect wiki; it's almost flawless. --TF141-Archer 14:26, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

Oh that's cool, I haven't played any of them yet; on my to do list :) Alex T Snow 15:11, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

Say what?!?!?! It's a great game although I've got to admit I didn't play them until after the second one came out. Give it a shot if you have the time you'll probably enjoy it. --TF141-Archer 16:34, 19 September 2011 (CDT)

So...

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Seems in Call of Duty land, naval battles never quite got past the "Trafalgar" stage. Wonder if there's some galleons exchanging broadsides in there somewhere. Then again, since it's been seen time and again that handguns are a more effective way of killing people in CoD than airstrikes, helicopter crashes, high-calibre cannon rounds and even dogs, perhaps they have to get really close and try to use their sidearms to one-shot each other. Or it's Treyarch and they're just trying to throw so many grenades onto each others' ships that they sink under the weight of the shrapnel. Evil Tim 04:16, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, some of those superstructures in the background look big enough to be battleships. If there are Iowas fighting at that range and the US isn't just flat-out winning it'd be pretty dumb. Any modern surface fleet versus a battleship at that kind of range would be a completely one-sided massacre. Evil Tim 05:05, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

I think the big ships with the pointed superstructure in the background are probably meant to be Russian Slava Class Crusiers. I would guess that the US have lost at this point, as the carrier is plainly sunk and it looks like the Arleigh Burke on the left is going down too. --commando552 05:40, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Beretta M9/92FS/etc

I think we should include the M9/92FS/92SB under handguns since the box cover art of the soldier carrying the M4 has a Beretta (identified by its open-barrel design) strapped in his holster as his sidearm. Although I'm not sure if it'll see a return in the gameplay, it should be noted. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 00:21, 28 September 2011 (CDT)

Remington MSR

The rifle labeled as the MSR looks too long for an MSR and I think it might actually be a Remington XM2010 --SmithandWesson36 09:18, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

It's been confirmed as an MSR in the multiplayer create-a-class, although I'm not entirely sure if they modeled it correctly, since the chassis for both the XM2010 and the MSR look similar. My guess is that it is. --Blemo File:Progress Wheel.gif ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 19:53, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

New trailer

Today they released a new trailer for the SP, which shows many many spoilers so be warned! Click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKgDVruHfo&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts? IMO, the trailer is great, though still doesn't wait for the game too much :\ --RaNgeR 16:08, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

As someone who isn't a huge fan of COD after COD4, this is looking better, though, the singleplayers were always at least pretty good :) Price has a DEagle at 0:25, but you can see his M1911 in his holster at 0:43!!!! :D Alex T Snow 21:55, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

I wonder if Price is going to die again. He seems to make a habit of it. Evil Tim 05:03, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

Haha, him and Soap will both almost die again, it's a tradition ;) Alex T Snow 14:31, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

A response to the first sentence: How the hell can an official trailer contain spoilers? roflcopter - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:46, 10 October 2011 (CDT)

Because obviously it shows scenes from the campaign missions, which can some of them if not all, can ruin the experience. Were you really serious about asking that question? :\ --RaNgeR 15:20, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

You can see Price pulling back the slide on a 1911 as he comes down the stairs. Most likely his Springfield from the last two games- hopefully it's actually usable in this one. Krakydak 14:16, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

No, that was the Desert Eagle, but you can see the Springfield 1911 in his holster, notably at 0:43. Alex T Snow 18:26, 15 October 2011 (CDT)

Equipment of Captain Price

Do you guys think that Price, being a SAS member and not Delta Force member, would have better had L9A1 and L119A1 instead of M1911A1 and M4A1? Or is there something more to it?

Also, do you think the image of him, holding Desert Eagle, shows off his, ahem, inner mall ninja?

--Masterius 07:15, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

LOL :) Or a P226. I'm currently building airsoft versions of his two main weapons, and I like the project value in making the AR-15A3 and SA Loaded 1911. Hell, I'm building the AR from scratch :O While those would've been more correct, I personally like those two. Alex T Snow 08:08, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

From CoD4:MW onwards, non of the titles were 100% accurate about weapons, equipment, vehicles and even factions. Of course it would be better to see Price carrying SIG-Sauer P226 or L9A1 and C8 Carbine instead of what he carries now. This goes to the rest of the main playable and non-playable characters. So eventually, what we're talking about here is the matter of accuracy, and as I said, non of the titles starting from CoD4:MW were even close to perfect about that case. --RaNgeR 08:18, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

You're talking about a man who died on the Tirpitz in World War 2. Reality and Price are not on speaking terms. Evil Tim 11:24, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

Doesnt the 1911 in Price's hand look very awkward. it looks like someone made a cheezy animation in ten minutes. Dirtdiver6421 20:50, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

That was a Desert Eagle...----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:11, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

Actually the WWII Price was confirmed by IW to be his grandfather. Alex T Snow 22:36, 16 October 2011 (CDT)

That's exactly what I was gonna say. :) - Mr. Wolf 17:47, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Nonsense, we know that pistols are the deadliest weapon in the world against people with both first and last names in the CoD universe. Price survived being shot with one, and so must be immortal. Evil Tim 17:08, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

dissappointment

I find it harder and harder to like CoD. i was all the way up with them from the beginning. Call of Duty:4 is a godsend. great campaign, great weapons, great characters. *SPOILERS* when they killed off Gaz i thought "okay, damn, best character is dead but i guess it wouldnt be a good ending without a great loss. but seriously they have reached a new low. let me be clear i love call of duty, but the simple stupid mistakes they are making, makes me think, if they cant get a simple 30 round magazine right, something we have used since the 90's, this game is going downhill fast. what possible explaination could they have besides lazyness to check the background, um hello Cod4? every other modern game has a 30 rounder. the designers need to listen, they need to fix these stupid mistakes, i think i might be forced to go over to the dark side of online gaming, to battlefield...Dirtdiver6421 16:55, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I pretty much agree, COD4 = awesome; the rest = not so much. Not sure what you mean by "dark side", BF3 is gonna be the best game, well, I hate to say "ever", but I can't come up with a better word. Certainly the way to go if you're someone from this site ;) Alex T Snow 18:10, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

I consider BF the 'Good Side' of FPS and CoD the 'Dark Side'.----JazzBlackBelt-- 19:21, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

i refer to it as the dark side because im a 'cod fanboy' as they say. and the polar opposite of the fun quick paced matches of CoD is the more team based tactical Battlefied. i 100% agree BF3 will be amazing, however i will never play mp because i hate snipers. they are 'uber noobs'. Dirtdiver6421 20:20, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

I for one am done with CoD completely, 4 was my favorite and I absoulutly loved that game. 5 was still fun but after that, forget it. They've added so much crap that makes the game no longer fun and it caters to the little kids. On BF, I rarely hear a kid yet on CoD, its almost every game. Another thing that bugs me is the fact that most of the shotguns are 30+ years old when this game is supposed to be modern. I don't think the 1887 as a POS pistol grip only black painted stock with ghost ring sights will ever be considered by even a lowly Security Guard.--FIVETWOSEVEN 00:23, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

semi-unrelated note

I was just wondering if they are any console games that are similar to CoD. im a huge fan of modern games, i dont like really realistic games like Operation Flashpoint, but i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of games. like i said i like CoD i like Rainbow6. and i also would like to no if there is any Glock's in said game (they're very under appreaciated in the FPS world) Dirtdiver6421 20:24, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

Haven't played it but there is Modern Combat: Domination for PS3. Looks like the game was... inspired by CoD: MW and CSS. No Glocks though. --Masterius 04:31, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

"I was just wondering if they are any console games that are similar to CoD" <-No. No videogame remotely similar to CoD has been made in the last five years. Are you from some other dimension? Evil Tim 04:59, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

Revision as of 09:31, 18 October 2011 (view source) Masterius (talk \| contribs) (→‎semi-unrelated note) ← Older edit		Revision as of 09:59, 18 October 2011 (view source) Evil Tim (talk \| contribs) (→‎semi-unrelated note) Newer edit →
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	:Haven't played it but there is [http://us.playstation.com/games-and-media/games/modern-combat-domination-ps3.html Modern Combat: Domination] for PS3. Looks like the game was... ''inspired'' by CoD: MW and CSS. No Glocks though. --[[User:Masterius\|Masterius]] 04:31, 18 October 2011 (CDT)		:Haven't played it but there is [http://us.playstation.com/games-and-media/games/modern-combat-domination-ps3.html Modern Combat: Domination] for PS3. Looks like the game was... ''inspired'' by CoD: MW and CSS. No Glocks though. --[[User:Masterius\|Masterius]] 04:31, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

			::"I was just wondering if they are any console games that are similar to CoD" <-No. No videogame remotely similar to CoD has been made in the last five years. Are you from some other dimension? [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] 04:59, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 09:59, 18 October 2011

Discussion

Title

Issues

Winchester Model 1887

Barrett M107/M82 Error

Gunz

HELL YEAH

The tossed magazine doesnt look right

Plot Holes

Guns

Pistols

M4A1

Cover Art

MP5SD2

Err... Guys?

Flip-Up Sights

Samopal Vzor 58

New Weapons Confirmed

Controversy

Unknown Ak Variant

Call Of Duty: Elite

TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet?

E3 Footage

Glock 18c

Unknown pistol from Late Night footage

1911 back in MW3

Weapons Wishlist

AK-74u

Call of Duty XP 2011

Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted?

???????

Survival Mode Trailer

Colt CM901

MP5K!!

M60E4 could be M60E3

FAD assault rifle

Purchase Weapons like Black Ops?

One handed grip

Infinity ward when will you ever learn

Confirmed guns still on Talk page

Hopefully this game turns out really good

M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR

New Trailer

Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked)

COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview

weapon list

Cheeky machine gun gameplay

PP-90M1

WTF

More vids are out

Weapons

Robotic-M249?

KSG-12... Double Barrel???

FAMAS

HAAAA! I was right!

So...

Beretta M9/92FS/etc

Remington MSR

New trailer

Equipment of Captain Price

dissappointment

semi-unrelated note

Navigation menu

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