Talk:Battlefield 3: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 22:47, 1 October 2011

All weapons in BF3

The list below shows all BF3 weapons that are going to be available either SP or MP.

This list is officially announced by EA, but i'm pretty sure there will be more coming.

NOTE: List has been edited to account for new information (eg: Both M16s and only P90TR) and name corrections (eg: DAO-12 to Striker)

Assault Rifles (Assault)

M16A3 (US)
AK-74M (RU)
HK416
G3A3
AN-94
KH2002
AEK-971
F2000
AS VAL
M16A4

Carbines (Engineer)

M4A1 (US)
AKS-74U (RU)
G36C
SCAR-H CQC
A-91
SG553
M4

Machine Guns (Support)

M27 IAR (US)
RPK-74M (RU)
M249E2
M60
M240
6P41
QYJ 88

Sniper Rifles (Recon)

Mk.11 Mod.0 (US)
SVD (RU)
M40A5
SV98
M98B
M82A3 (not in MP)

Battle Rifles (Recon)

M39 EMR
SKS

Sub-Machine Guns (All Kit)

P90TR
MP7A1
UMP45
PDR
PP2000

Shotguns (All Kit)

870 MCS
M1014
USAS-12
Saiga 20K
Striker

Pistols (All Kit)

M9 (US)
MP443 (RU)
G17
M-45
MP412
T44
93R
G18

Underbarrels (Assault)

M320 with HE/Smoke/Buckshot rounds
M26 MASS with Buckshot/Flechette/Frag/Slug rounds

Rocket Launchers (Engineer)

Mk.153 SMAW (US)
RPG-7 (RU)
FGM-148 Javelin
FIM-92 Stinger
SA-18 IGLA
AT4

( Source: http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/complete-list-of-battlefield-3-weapons/ ) --Zzang1847 23.09.2011 11.07 (PST)

This is from a Batlefield 3 fansite and not acctualy offical --Armyguy277 14:38, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

This has been discussed before. While it is technically official since the official gaming news sources are also reporting it, but since there aren't any pictures of 'em you have to wait.--Nomad175 15:55, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

Pages without pictures or info look ugly. The game's out in less than a month, and the Beta's out in a few days, we can wait, but it does mean we get to know what's in the game anyway, even though it's not on the page :) Alex T Snow 16:20, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

Although there were no pictures, i believe we still can at least put some description and real picture so someone who is actually uploading in-game pictures don't have to worry about putting explanation and finding pictures from the archive, which takes significant amount of time (in terms of AAA games like this).

P.S) Sorry about this discussion already mentioned before. I thought i could give some help, but perhaps i'm not :( ~ Zzang1847 23.09.2011 8.43 (PST)

Building an article is not a race, there is just less than a week for the Beta to roll in, not that much to wait. --Masterius 07:52, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

Looks like it is going to just be Americans, Russians, Generic "Not the Taliban, honest" Middle Eastern Militia and possibly the Iranian army as factions then. Damn. The Wierd It 10:28, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

For SP yeah, but for MP it's been confirmed to be just US and RU. Alex T Snow 03:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Faction Specific Weaponry details

no need to worry , about faction specific weaponry , reading through some of Alan Kertz earlier posts.He states that the player once leveled up high enough in the class's levels will gain access to the other factions weaponry.

Gun disparity

I have the feeling the M4A1 will be the counterpart to the AKS74U. This is wrong, but every game seems to do it. The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel and is a standard issue weapon. The AKS74U has an 8.3 inch barrel and is issued to vehicle crews. A better setup would be Mk 18 Mod O (or HK416 D10RS) vs the AKS74U. Also, the M16 and AK74 aren't exactly equal either. Maybe pair up the regular M4A1 or SCAR-L with 14.5 inch barrel (for variety) with the AK74?

Oh and what do you think the US/EU counterparts to the SKS, RPK and AS Val will be? There's no US counterpart cartridge to the 7.62x39 and 9x39 as far as I know.

There's no val, that's vss

SKS = Mk.11 = SVD. RPK = M27. Alex T Snow 17:52, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Its the asval not vss :S.User:lukewilliams010 12:14 ,19 august 2011

PKM\PKP operation

I've yet to see a game that properly portraits PKM operation with its 2 level feeding system and non-disintegrating belts. Curious if in BF3 they'll get it right. Doubt it though...

Optic mounts

Optic mounts on all russian weapons are wrong. Basically it's an PSO with optic tube cut off and rail slapped instead of it. Then every Russian scope has its original mount removed so it can be fixed on that picatinny rail. They also didn't bother making proper mount for PKP and just put rail on top of the receiver lid. I was expecting more attention to details in BF3.

Well the Russian army IS starting to use RIS, just look at the AK-9. [1] While it does seem a bit sloppy, it can be justified in a way. At least it isn't as bad as that AK-abomination from MW2 and the RPD with rails.

Beta

Does anyone know when the beta is starting? cant wait for it! --109.78.246.33 21:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Or for that matter, how we can get in on it? That's One Angry Duck

To get into the Battlefield 3 beta, you need to buy specially-marked versions of the recent Medal Of Honor User:SeanWolf

Ya i got it, do you know when were getting the codes?--GunGunGun 02:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I have no clue.User:SeanWolf

If you registered your Medal of Honor with your EA-Account, you'll get the invitation and infos, as soon as there is something, so far nothing is known.

Wish I could try the beta Excalibur01 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Not just you, after the videos they releases pretty much everybody is dying to get hands on the game. Killerpixel 12:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Beta will be open to everyone. Those who got MoH, will get in earlier.

AK-something-something

Check that dude in the BG. also what I think *might* be a holster, but I'm probably wrong.

http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf6.jpg

It's definitely an AK-series rifle, which one I can't be sure of. If I had to guess however, I'd say either an AK-74, AK-74M, or AK-101. Orca1 9904 08:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a dump bag on his hip. At least that's what I think it is. It definitely isn't a holster though, since most drop leg holsters are strapped to your thigh. Why a guy with a belt fed machine gun has a dump bag through is beyond me.--1SAZ 09:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

If I had to guess, he may have been issued an M4 or M16 and picked up the MG prior to the pic being taken. You can also see some STANAG mag pouches on the front of his vest too. Orca1 9904 03:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I Agree with Orca1, I know you can't see from the distance, but the profile of the muzzle looks like one of those 3. As the game is set in 2014, im assuming it's either an AK-74M or AK-101. --Chablar 13:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

M240G is M240B

The M240G is actually a M240B as seen by gameplay screenshots. You can also identify it's M240B by the heat shield. I guess that inaccuracy in every war game (including new games) will always be. --RaNgeR 11:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I knew it was some kind of M240 variant, but since it was being used by a Marine I assumed it was the 240-Golf variant since they typically use that instead of the 240-Bravo. Orca1 9904 03:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong use of the word "anachronistic" there. An anachronism is an object, event, or person portrayed in a chronologically inaccurate time period. The Marines using the M240B is a mistake, no doubt, but it's not an anachronism as the M240B still does technically exist at the same time beside the Golf model. Spartan198 22:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

M16A4?

Got these pics off BF3 nation; http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf1.jpg appears to be some M16 varient which oddly enough doesnt have any rear sights. http://bf3nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/bf5.jpg Another shot of the M16 like weapon (Just going to mention the nice detail on the mag). And hey, new weapon, A COFFEE MUG!!! --GunGunGun 15:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It is an M16A4, the developers probably didn't detailed the weapon enough. --RaNgeR 16:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I noticed this as well. Im guessing they just forgot, The sights are even not there in the gameplay videos. I do hope they change it though, might seen a little silly firing with neither iron sights or optics. --Chablar 13:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

in the new 12 min trailer, roughly at the 7min mark when they put surpessive fire on the sniper, is it me or does the guy on the left, with the M16A4 fire full auto?. Sike 17:20, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

I'm commenting without checking, but remember how fast you can fire the M16A4 and 93R in BC2? Alex T Snow 01:23, 19 April 2011 (CDT)

Racking charging handle when reloading after empty

A new trailer showed you shooting an M4 and when you are empty, you reload but instead of pressing the bolt release, you charge the handle. I seriously hope this isn't the default reload Excalibur01 04:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

At the begining of the trailer, it did say that it was pre-alpha code. They'll hopefully have the modeling and other animations fixed by then.--Gunkatas 05:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, cause I'm getting bad flashbacks to games in early 2000 that pulls the charging handle when doing mid mag reloads Excalibur01 05:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the M16A2 & M4A1 reloading animations from BF2 had the character use the charging handle instead of the bolt release when reloading, they may have borrowed that. Orca1 9904 05:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

3D modeling and animation is kinda hard to "borrow" from older engine/file format. I'd guess it's probably "director thinks this looks more dynamic" like Black, or maybe the animator is under heavy influence of games in early 2000 :/ Ssate 02:43, 12 April 2011 (CDT)

Well I hope they change it to using bolt release because it's wield for someone to do that unless you're clearing a malfunction Excalibur01 06:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm liking how they now keep track of a round in the chamber and you don't go through the whole reloading animation, maybe this time we'll have proper pistol reloads.--FIVETWOSEVEN 19:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

What's a "proper" pistol reload? Excalibur01 20:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I think he meant that the slide does not lock back when the pistol runs out, like in Medal Of Honor MP. bozitojugg3rn4ut 20:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Also in Bad Company and the second one they did the same thing where the slide didn't lock back. If it's one thing Modern Warfare has done right is the reload animation...well except maybe for the ACR. Excalibur01 22:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

There was also a problem with the SPAS-12: the character pump it after the reload even if there was a shell in the chamber. Same in Black Ops. Not to mention that "all pistols were DAO" since the hammers never move. bozitojugg3rn4ut 08:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

About reloads, in last years Metal of Honor, you do a combat reload when your shotgun is empty. Excalibur01 22:15, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another nice touch that they put in was that they left the front sight on the M4 even though it has an optical sight. In most games the front sight is either removed completely (like Bad Company 2 or Call of Duty 4) or else it has a flip down front sight (like Modern Warfare 2). Adds a nice level of realism in my opinion.--Gunkatas 06:29, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I always thought removing the front sight from M4/M16 rifles in games was utterly stupid mall ninja BS, not to mention making the gun look ugly as sin. In a real-world situation, if your optic fails and you don't have any iron sights to fall back on, you're basically SOL while the other guy who's never even heard of a red dot sight is still capable of sending rounds your way. Orca1 9904 10:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't some optics already mount back-up irons (BUS / BUIS) on them? Vangelis 11:46, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Yeah I noticed this too. All BF games seem to get reloads completely wrong. You get the feeling the make you rack the charging handle with a mid mag reload to clear the current round so they don't have to take it into account. As awesome as charging the action yourself, or racking the top slide looks, you just never do it during a normal reload. I do hope they change this yeah, but I doubt they will looking back at the other games. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Battlefield games, but I don't see how its that hard to get weapons right when they hire Ex-military guys to get everything else right. You can even find these things on Google these days. And with COD removing the iron sights on the M16s and M4s they are also removing the gas block. The gun would have to fire one round and then the action be charged manually. I love these games, but some times the ignorance they show towards the things they claim are most important pisses me off a bit.--Chablar 14:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, at least they don't go the extra mile and have guns being fired with the safety on, I can think of a couple of games that do that. Vangelis 14:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

The use of military and ex-military people are for realistic look of the soldiers, their movements, they communications, and look of ground vehicles and aircraft... But don't forget that it is not that hard to search for photos in the internet of weapons, vehicles, aircraft, uniforms, equipment, etc. and create it in the computer, without using the help of the military guys. As what we see know. BF3 goes for the realistic way, that's right, but it is not realistic in the small details. CoD4:MW, CoD:MW2, CoD:BO, the new MoH, OFP series, ArmA series, and of course the series of BF from BF2 and onwards have so many unrealistic small details that can be fixed easily by using mod tools. The developers doesn't really care if the M4A1 has gas block (CoD) or if you charge the weapon with the charging handle (BF2, BF3), they just want to create a game, realistic or not just the gamers will be happy. It is a bit funny as so many things are so realistic in this game but someone who has good military knowledge will notice right away for the f*** ups. In OFP:RR for example, they only thing that bothers me is that the M16A4 in-game looks like the Canadian C7 rifle. --RaNgeR 18:50, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

don't forget in MW2, fans were commenting that the rear flip up sight on the SCAR was backwards and would back towards the shooter and not forward. IW didn't change it cause they don't care of the little details. Also I like to see a game where they have a random chance to destroy your optic so can you actually can flip up your irons. After the EMP in MW2, they forgot that pretty much all the M4s and SCARS had flip up sights but none of them bothered to flip them up. That'll be the first thing I noticed when I aim or the fact that the ACOG is not electronic and would still work when an EMP hits. Excalibur01 19:43, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Let's not forget MW2 is the same game which showed the Model 1887 being reloaded by having every cartridge put into the barrel. Would certainly make for an interesting first shot... Vangelis 19:58, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

In the words of the Demo Man from Team Fortress 2, "Ka-BOOM!" :P Orca1 9904 20:18, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

New behind-the-scenes footage reveals that there are partial reload animations --HashiriyaR32 20:16, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I liked how Project Reality completely replaced the M16/M4 reload animation from BF2; the only time the charging handle is messed with is when you first bring the weapon up, and even then it's more of a brass check than a full pull back. The reloading animation has you swap the mags, hit the bolt release, and check the ejection port. Much more realistic reloading animation. Orca1 9904 07:03, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

What I wish is adding different animation for reloads. If you are in the middle of an intense fire fight, you reload and press the bolt faster and you randomly fumble with your reload cause it happens. Or if the firefight is over, you do a more slow reload. Also if the gun has flip up sights, I want to see an animation where you actually flip those irons up Excalibur01 11:02, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

I don't think I'd be happy with the former; same as random jams or giving singleplayer enemies a chance of getting an instakill headshot on the player, it isn't much fun having the game secretly flipping a coin to decide if you get screwed or not. Black did slower reloads if you weren't being fired at, though; it either sped the whole animation up or skipped the unnecessary wanking around if you were being shot at when you pressed reload. Vangelis 11:50, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Another thing about leaving the front sight post on the M4s is that the red dot sight is raised and not like in COD4 where it is mounted on the rail. Maybe in real life, having 2 eyes would sort of work, but even then you can still have a front post bother your eye looking at it. It wouldn't be a clear shot Excalibur01 11:04, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

The only game I've seen that gets it all right is Crysis 2, and the weapons are all fictional, though they could all easily exist. It's got both reload animations (six actually, because you do them different in Armour or Stealth mode), +1 in the chamber, attachments on your gun based on where they're mounted (one optic, a suppressor or no suppressor, and an underbarrel), believable damages based on calibres, functioning pistol hammers, and pistol slides that lock back when empty and not as part of the reload animation (meaning you can run around and stuff with a locked empty pistol). Alex T Snow 12:02, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

PKM

At the left on the bridge an enemy soldier have a Pkm machine gun : http://www.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Battlefield3_Gogogo.jpg (high resolution sorry) Arrak

PKP

Disable Vehicles

New info at Kotaku and others mentions "Temporarily disabling vehicles". I'm thinking it may be some sort of EMP thing, though, even for BF that's a stretch. What would be preferable, is if for instance... a tank... had several parts that were damageable. Things like treads, optics, engines, etc could be disabled in order to halt a tank. Same goes with tires and stuff like that with other vehicles. This'd be really cool in my opinion, for instance, snipers could damage the optics of a tank with say a .50 BMG round, temporarily of course. Halorocka888 20:23, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

M16 Carry Handle Fix

If anybody's seen the EA PWNED BF3 episode, it looks like they've added the carry handle to the M16A4. Two short clips demonstrating the ANT animation system that show the M16A4 with it. Good stuff. Also, did anyone notice how they're making prone realistic? It seems they're having the player's elbows be fixed rotateable spots along with the player's spine being able to bend a certain number of degrees. In order to rotate around, the player has to physically crawl over to view that area. It's easy to see in the animation demos that I referred to, but it's also noticeable on the 12 minute trailer when the Marines are on the rooftop, watch the perspective of the player's weapon and how it moves in relation to the arms. Very cool indeed, because I know balancing prone has always been a problem with BF. Halorocka888 09:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Multiplayer Teaser

there is a MP teaser up on www.origin.com, looks like they have gone and screwed the m4 up, (removed front site) Sike 16:22, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Can't get a good enough look at the gas block to tell. Anywho... I spotted the M16A4, a Mk 46/M249, M9 pistol, the PKM Pencheng, SVD, Mk 11/SR-25 (Not a M110, no full URX rail), AKS-74, and the Grach pistol. All but the SVD and Grach are viewable in the trailer, the AKS-74, SVD, and Grach are visible in the corner where it lists the kills. Halorocka888 16:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-battlefield-3/714884 pause at 0:19 for the M4, Sike 16:42, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

The AKS-74U screenshot shows what appears to be an enemy carrying two RPG-7 launchers. Can't tell if they have optics or straight iron sights. Orca1 9904 14:56, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Who?

Who put the Mk 11 as the 9A-91? Travesty, stoked that the Mk 11 is in though. Halorocka888 14:30, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

AK-74M

This photo was posted on battlefields facebook page.

It seems that while the US gets an M-4A1 with and without optics, the Russians/PLR get an AK-74M. --Mattatack92 00:54, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

This might've just been the loadouts they had for E3, doesn't necessarily confirm faction specific weaponry. Halorocka888 14:00, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

Is that PSO-1 or the same unidentified sight from Medal of Honor? --Masterius 10:31, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

They modelled receiver lid locking knob wrongly. Should be like this

Physical Warfare Pack

New weapons, folks!

Battlefield 3 Limited Edition: Physical Warfare Pack Available for Preorder in UK

Time for article update? --Masterius 03:08, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

I see they're calling it the DAO-12 again. Evil Tim 03:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Type 88 (and it seems the Bipod is an attachment), "DAO-12" lol, with Flechette ammo, aaaaaaaand... a Flash Suppressor for the "SKS Sniper Rifle"!!!! Alex T Snow 05:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

"SKS Sniper Rifle?" So we're set in California? Watch out, the bad guys have high-capacity 15-round magazines! Evil Tim 05:56, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the SKS 10 rounds though? I never really liked the look of the SKS, but I've seen a lot of people on this site post about wanting it in a game for once, so it'll make all them happy :) Alex T Snow 06:37, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I'm just talking generally; you know, scary handguns with high-capacity magazines and laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings and gangland bayonet charges. Evil Tim 09:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Haha, yeah, I'm from Canada, and while we don't actually have as strict laws as, say, California, what we have is lots of paperwork and time spent training for licenses, etc. Making them harder to get and needing more knowledge about them is way better than just banning them. I never understood that, oooo, a bayonet mount, oh no! A pistol grip? They'll kill us so much more efficiently now! Criminals use illegally bought weapons that aren't registered. And that guy that comes home to find his wife is cheating on him? He's so mad he'll kill both of them, and they think he won't just get a knife or something? I'm not supporting killing people, but people would still do it even if all the firearms on Earth went away. We were pretty damn good at it for the thousands of years before we invented them... Alex T Snow 15:36, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Agreed :) - Mr. Wolf 18:26, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Still no update? --Masterius 06:16, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

'laws to rid the streets of the scourge of drive-by rifle grenadings' - I lol'd --Chrausis 08:11, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Why in the hell would they make the SKS a 'Sniper Rifle'? I mean calling the Dragunov a true sniper rifle is pretty much... wrong, I'm okay with it though, but an SKS? I'll admit I'm not very experienced with the SKS myself, maybe it's a tack driver in disguise, but from what I've heard it's just a little more accurate than your standard AK47 and that's not saying much.... --Ghostdigga 12:56, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Well there are only going to be semi-auto sniper rifles, so really, there are only DMRs anyway. It's not like it's a sniper class, it's a recon class, so that's not missnamed. Alex T Snow 17:59, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Source? There's no way they'd make all the sniper rifles semi-automatic. We've only seen semi-automatics, yes, but there's no confirmation that they'll -all- be semi-automatic. Halorocka888 20:09, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

That's what I got out of the Recon description here:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/08/battlefield-3-at-e3-roundup.aspx Semi-auto and C4. That could just mean default, and you still get bolt-actions and the mortar later, but I really think they mean they removed both of those, to balance the issues with those two things in BC2. Everyone uses Recon, everyone hides with a one hit kill sniper rifle, and everyone calls in their magic mortars from anywhere onto anything. It looks like they're trying to make the Recon kit more of a DMR kit than a true sniper, which is probably better, it fits the squad play better as a DMR and a support gunner do the same job, one with high amounts of precision, the other with high amounts of ammo. On a different note, I'm pretty sure the M4A1 will be in the engineer kit because it has a flashlight and will be the counterpart to the AKS-74U, like the M16A4 and AK-74M. Alex T Snow 21:36, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

They meant at the E3 demo, the Recon class has a semi-automatic sniper rifle. At the E3 Demo. Hence the "E3 Roundup" title, it's not dismissing anything, just saying what they saw at E3. Halorocka888 21:47, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Finally :) --Masterius 04:12, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

M249 SAW is actually Mk. 46 Mod 0?

By looking at the handgurads, I noticed that they are sticking out like the Mk. 46 Mod 0's handguards instead of the flat M249 SAW's heatshield. Also, because the weapon is fitted with M145 ECLAN scope, this could be the same model as in Medal of Honor, only it is rendered differently or something like that to fit Battlefield 3's engine. So, could be? --RaNgeR 03:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, it's for sure the Mk 46. Though, it's all one nacho. Glad with the weapon choices they're going with so far. Halorocka888 10:34, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

Glad to see the M145 MGO, presumably in place of the ACOG. Nice touch. --Chrausis 08:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Yep, there's also some speculation that there'll be multiple types of 4x optics for each weapon, like you could put the Elcan on an M4. But I think it's more likely that each weapon will just have a different model of ACOG-type optic. Halorocka888 08:27, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

If that's the case, I'm putting the ELCAN on the M16A4, and if there's camo I'm making it green :) Alex T Snow 23:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Canadian, eh? :P --Masterius 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Yup ;) Alex T Snow 18:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

The quality of the screenshot is too low to tell if it's an M249 or a Mark 46. The key difference between the two is that the M249 has a magazine well on the side of the receiver for using M16 mags, but the Mark 46 doesn't. You can't really tell if the SAW in this game has a mag well or not. I also want to point out that the SAW in MoH has a magazine well, which would make it an M249. ;) Spartan198 05:06, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

P90 in IGN preview

here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/117/1172554/battlefield-3-20110606090440594-000.jpg

the magazine looks like its either missing or modeled way to small

source http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/117/1172554p1.html

sorry i dont know how to embed an image Sike 07:54, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

there's a clear model error...the magazine is lodged inside the weapon at an angle and the charging handles are floating above the magazine in midair. however, the magazine looks like its of appropriate size and its transparent....would be a nice touch if the bullets inside would actually be visible and move.

May perhaps point to an extended magazines type system, though you'd expect the studio to realise that the P90 feeds from the rear so this wouldn't function --Chrausis 08:09, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

There are Extended Magazines, you can see them in the loadout window in some of the E3 footage on a PKP Pecheneg. But, what the P90 is likely, is just a pre-alpha mess-up. The magazine is there and properly sized, its' just angled downward into the weapon/barrel. It's not married properly to the P90 and is likely just a glitch that will be fixed. Halorocka888 08:29, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Fair enough, pretty cool that things such as extended magazines have made it into BF3 --Chrausis 12:22, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

M4A1

I just saw the latest video where the M4A1 had a holo-sight and the gas block was removed. Looks like this will be just another unrealistic game after all. But at least the character pressed the BCRB instead of pulling the charging handle. Damn it, when will a new Rainbow Six game come out?! - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:38, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

It's not a big deal. The M4A1 still kills people and looks great. Halorocka888 14:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I might be a bit annoying to have every game M4 lose its gas block, but it really doesn't matter THAT much, and it makes the scope view clearer. To say that it will be "just another unrealistic game" because of that is silly, just pretend it has one of those super mini gas blocks, you wouldn't even be able to see it anyway. Alex T Snow 14:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

The problem is that I don't want to have a clear view because soldiers do not have clear view ALL the time. And there is a nice little thing called "flat-top riser". One might wonder why was it invented.... - bozitojugg3rn4ut 17:07, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

But they're ugly and no one uses them. Alex T Snow 20:45, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Would be cool if removing gas block was optional and made gun bolt-action. Talk about killing with skill :D --Masterius 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Bolt-action sniper rifles will be usable without scopes.

Some Weapon Spots

(Continuously updated) This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwT6x7zEQ8c) shows on the kill-feed that the SVD makes a return for Battlefield 3 at 2:20. At 3:48 you see an enemy in the engineer class holding what appears to be an RPG-7 at 3:48. The kill-feed shows at 4:06 a MP-443 pistol. Clear look at an RPG-7 with on the back of an enemy soldier with the rocket (quite dangerously) inserted at 6:03 and again at 7:23. --DaiTaNam 16:32, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Team Specific Weapons?

Looking at the AKS-74U pictures it looks scarily like that's a US Marine using it on Spetsnaz. As far as I know there'll be unlockables and selectable weapons, but does anyone know if these are team specific or not? I'm personally pretty worried we're going to have a bunch of marines in state of the art gear running around with AK rifles because a bunch of bars say they're the best, or PLR using M4s and 249's, that's as bad, if not worse. --AmrasCalmacil 17:26, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

That's only in MP, it's the same as Bad Company 2, I never liked being restricted to team weapons im MP. Alex T Snow

The player could've picked the weapon up... We don't know for sure about faction specific loadouts. Halorocka888 23:54, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

I personally liked the faction specific loadouts in BF2, it was realistic. - Mr. Wolf 00:40, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

True, to be honest I'd be happy either way. Alex T Snow 03:49, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope they bring back faction specific weapons from Battlefield 2. Medal of Honor made it right at first but then you got the opposing faction's guns and faction-specificness pretty much lost its purpose :\ --Masterius 06:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

But in BF2 if you killed a enemy you can pick up his "kit" and use his weapons... - Mr. Wolf 14:08, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Yes, first you had to kill an enemy, then you could pick his stuff (kit). But for Battlefield 3 it should be weapon (more realistic than insta-crossdressing xD ) --Masterius 16:12, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Your right, lol. XD - Mr. Wolf 19:25, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually in BC2 your character model never changed when you swaped kits, you could have a medic carrying a sniper rifle, or a ghillie guy with an RPG-7. Alex T Snow 19:49, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

Ah right, I forgot. :\

Lol, you forgot about rocket launcher-wielding snipers ;) Hey, we should put a pic of that under the rocket section or something, you know, just for kicks. Alex T Snow 01:05, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

lol yeah. The reason I don't remember is because I only played with bots, I only had Dial-up back then. u_u - Mr. Wolf 14:34, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

I hope its not side specific, I always hated that considering how two weapons from the same class where completely different and handled different. Most people would end up using unlocked guns that you can use on either side. If you want a game thats realistic as possible, play Operation Flashpoint.

Being a fan of Battlefield 2, which featured faction specific weapons, I'm offended someone is saying me to play another game. I might as well say: If you want a game thats unrealistic as possible, play Call of Duty. By the way, in Medal of Honor opposing factions' weapons had identical stats, so that wouldn't be a problem for Battlefield 3 (probably). Also, sign your posts (paragraphs?) --Masterius 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Well since OpFor is using a AK-74M and AKS-74U which is some-what comparable to the M16A4 and M4A1, I say the game is gonna be fairly balanced. - Mr. Wolf 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

If they use weapon balance from MoH then yes. Because in BF2 M16A2 and M4A1 kinda sucked (better use G36E and SCAR-L unlocks, respectively). However AK-101 and AKS-74U were nice (damage)! Check their stats here: BF2 Weapons Comparison --Masterius 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

^^But those games kinda sucked (at least Dragon Rising, Red River looks good). :\ Whatever, I personally like faction specific weapons for my reasons above. - Mr. Wolf 14:27, 22 June 2011 (CDT)

To be honest, Dragon Rising didn't suck, it was just buggy and laggy (which can be said about pretty much every other shooter, at least as start) and didn't have weapon customization (which can be said about Battlefield 2). In my opinion it is Red River which sucked, basically being Co-op CoD:MW with Visible Walls of Block being replaced by Invisible Walls of Doom and auto regeneration being replaced by manual healing. --Masterius 01:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Meh, that's why I said kinda sucky, lol I heard AAII is much worst, as its severely buggy and lacks weapon animations and others. P.S. I prefer manual healing over mutant regenerating health any day, the only place 3 second regenerating health belongs is a Wolverine game. :\ - Mr. Wolf 12:47, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

To be honest, manual healing in Red River isn't that much different from auto regeneration: hold "use" key while not getting hit and several seconds later you are good to go. Whether Dragon Rising had an actual Medic class just like Battlefield :) Oh, and it's kinda hard to make complex game without a lot of technical problems and unfinished things, yes ;) --Masterius 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, if you want actual realism at this point, you go ArmA 2, not Operation Flashpoint: We-screwed-over-an-already-great-franchise-by-making-a-game-with-casual-gamers-in-mind5t3v0 03:06, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

If you want actual realism at this point, you go to Army. --Masterius 05:40, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, But ArmA II had NO weapon animations, that's kinda a big "unfinished thing" when you publish the game! And you Mr. Masterius, your obnoxious, why don't you go join the Army. We're talking about wanting realistic combat games not what peoples career decisions should be. -_- Mr. Wolf 13:04, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Mr. Wolf, one thing you should realise: until Virtual Reality is created and gone into mass production, games will never, NEVER be trully realistic. Holding gun in your hands =\= Mouse+Keyboard. Also, mine is not obnoxious, mine is very nice and tidy :\ --Masterius 14:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

And what's so wrong with wanting realism in "Mouse+Keyboard" games? Also I have handled, extensively trained, and fired many REAL firearms, so I'm not just some armchair-commando or a mall-ninja. - Mr. Wolf 19:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Eventually FPSs will be the player wearing a mocap suit with a mocap gun, in a mocap room with a floor that moves (like a treadmill) so you can run places. And you will be forced to reload the weapon properly etc. Alex T Snow 19:25, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

The first steps are made :D XIO Gaming VR Simulator Prototype --Masterius 03:54, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

I'd settle for having a decent field of view, right now. They're actually getting narrower rather than wider as the gun attempts to colonise roughly a quarter of the screen. Kinda sad when the guy in Doom held his pistol in a more sensible way than the guy in Crysis 2 does; the latter seems to be holding it with the base of his right palm rested against his nose. Sure, we're not all going to own an IMAX globe theatre any time soon to have a full 180 degrees or so of vision, but it gets silly when your FOV is ~30 degrees these days when most of the old shooters did 70-90. Evil Tim 04:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

I removed your post? Maybe we both tried to edit at the same time, because it wasn't there when I did, sorry about that. Alex T Snow 02:34, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Lol @ me. Should have known someone was going to say that... Should have added "In a Video game"... 5t3v0 08:00, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Right 8) --Masterius 09:51, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

It's alright, danke. :) - Mr. Wolf 18:31, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

More Stuff

Maybe. I didn't see anything listed here that we don't have, but they seem to know what they're talking about. (Near the bottom) http://enterbf3.com/ Alex T Snow 12:17, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

Barrett MRAD/98B spotted

Taken from the "Classes Explained" screenshot...

[2]

source: [3]

--Ghostdigga 18:07, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

Cool, I'd never heard of that rifle before, looks like a good addition. Alex T Snow 18:37, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

Looks like they call Picatinny Railed M16A4 M16A2 again *facepalm*. Oh, and that's a weird sniper rifle. Don't they have M110 for that?

P.S. And yeah, same goes for DAO-12 (Armsel Striker, duh!). But I would prefer Armsel Protecta (it's more modern after all ;) ) --Masterius 05:01, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually they are calling it M-16a2... nuff said! - bozitojugg3rn4ut 05:14, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

If it was called "Blarg Rifle" but had correct reloads, I'd be happy. Where did it say they called it an A2 anyway? Alex T Snow 06:03, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

here bozitojugg3rn4ut 07:50, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh right, well, it might say "M-16a2", but it calls the MRAD a "Mk. II" Sniper Rifle, so, we'll see. Alex T Snow 17:19, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Well I think that the "Mk. II" is the Mk II Mod 0 (SR-25), and that they just threw the text on there because the Mk II will be the default Recon rifle. Anyways, I think this 99% confirms that it will be in the game, should it be added to the main page? --Ghostdigga 14:28, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

OH Mk.11, I thought it said Mk.2, and I couldn't figure out what the hell that would be. Yeah, we've seen the SR-25 already in that multiplayer footage, and everything in that video was default. Alex T Snow 17:05, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

So MoH had the M110 when it should have had the Mark 11, but BF3 now has the Mark 11 when it should have the M110 (USMC recently dropped the Mark 11 in favor of the M110)? *Facepalm* Spartan198 05:27, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Indeed. Another thing about MoH is that apparently Mark 14 Mod 0 got finished in 2003 and got shipped to Navy SEALs in 2004[4] thus making it as chronologically incorrect as M110. Devs usually tend to skip the details. Still, the crown of ignorance goes to CoD brand. The latest MW3 seems to have customized AK-47 *Major Facepalm* --Masterius 15:39, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Notes about in-game ACOG scopes

I noticed that there seem to be two separate models of ACOG scopes available in the game, according to the screenshots posted in the article. The M4A1 carbine the player character uses in the 'Faultline' trailer is fitted with a camo-painted TA01NSN ACOG(identifiable by the integral iron sights and lack of a fiber-optic strip along the top) while one of the M16A4's shown in first-person view in the article here is equipped with a TA31F ACOG. This is the second FPS game I've seen to do this, the other being Project Reality (itself a mod of Battlefield 2, coincidentally) which has the TA31F and TA31RCO ACOG models available in it. Orca1 9904 03:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

...While in the average FPS, you're lucky if the thing called the ACOG looks like anything in Trijicon's product line. Evil Tim 03:47, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Making the public in general think every scope is called an ACOG :P Also, in terms of 4x sights, theres the M249s ELCAN, and I'm hoping you can put any optic on anything. One of the DICE guys said there's a crazy amount of optics in BF3. Alex T Snow 05:26, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Even in COD: Black Ops (a game that takes place in the 60s mind you) they have a scope called a ACOG, even though it's obviously not a ACOG *rolls eyes*. Game Devs are becoming fails more and more every year. - Mr. Wolf 17:08, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Treyarch basically made their own Modern Warfare, with blackjack and hookers. So yeah, forget about proper portray of Cold War. --Masterius 07:41, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Give me the ability to slap the Elcan onto the M240 and I will be happy. Hope what you said about the 'crazy amount of optics' turns out to be true. --Chrausis 06:34, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

I hope you're not confusing the ELCAN scope with the similar M145 MGO. Orca1 9904 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

You are correct, I did mean the MGO. I know the M145 is different, I just though the Elcan name was interchangeable. --Chrausis 13:15, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

It would be nice to see a broader array of optics customizations in FPS games. Project Reality has a pretty good variety, but you have to switch out your entire class loadout in order to change this, and most weapons only have 1 or 2 optics available aside from iron sights (the M4A1 has the widest variety; having available EOTech, M68 Aimpoint, Kimber Mepro, & ITL MARS red dots as well as both TA31F & TA31RCO ACOGs as mentioned above). Orca1 9904 12:05, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Now, that Project Reality has been mentioned... I hope DICE won't disappoint the CIS players, so that we can kick yer capitalist arses in proper way... j/k lol :P Anyway, here are the articles for those interested: for AK-74M and for PKP. And the full catalog. Oh, and it's been suggested on EA's Forums, so I don't have to do it myself. --Masterius 12:24, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Mocap Guns

Here's a challenge for everyone; what are the two wire guns standing in for?

2nd Story http://www.enterbf3.com/

Or if it's off the list after a while: http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab1.jpg http://media.enterbf3.com/images/mcnab2.jpg Alex T Snow 01:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Cornershot and a Thompson with M203? :P Evil Tim 02:35, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

lolz. - Mr. Wolf 02:51, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

More seriously, that thing McNab has is definately supposed to be a carbine with an underbarrel accessory, I can't really see what else it could be. The other guy's weapon is a bit more of a mystery; since it doesn't have any kind of projection for a magazine, I'd guess it's something like a Bizon; can't be a P90, these rigs are for capturing hand positions and his would be completely wrong for that. Evil Tim 04:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Wait, actually it does have a magazine, I see a curved MP5-style mag just in front of his finger. So, maybe it's an MP5 with some underbarrel device making the front end all chunky, or one of those MP10 things like in GTAIV. Evil Tim 04:40, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

LOL Tommy with M203 :) The one on the right really looks like an M14 EBR to me, the mag, handguard, and barrel, but the other one is weird. It looks like an MP5 pistol grip and mag, with a really bulky front, and a stock that looks familiar, bu I just can't place. :P Alex T Snow 05:09, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

ACE side-folding skeleton stock? Evil Tim 05:48, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, that's the one! Hmm, is there anything in particular that's on, aftermarket or otherwise? Alex T Snow 06:29, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Quick google gets me mostly AK-pattern weapons. AK, Saiga, Galil, that kind of thing. Couple on MACs, not that it's likely to be one of those. Maybe that's what a MoCap AKS-74U looks like? :s Evil Tim 06:36, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

I'd say that's the best guess so far Alex T Snow 12:13, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

Dunno, such a stock shape reminds me of G36E which was in Battlefield 2 (with railz instead of optics). --Masterius 06:35, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Not sure about that, you'd have thought if it was G36E the mocap prop would have a rod or something stuck to the end to represent the rest of the barrel like the one McNab has. Evil Tim 06:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Bah, I am not really into guessing the gun by the mocap. Details of it - OK, but generally it's just a mishmash that can be used for anything provided the grip is adequate xD --Masterius 06:51, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually the ACE stock is found on the SPAS 15 as well (which was in Bad Company 1, and Battlefield 2 I think) probably the most likely choice. --Ghostdigga 18:48, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

I hope it's that, that was the ONLY weapon that didn't come back in BC2 for some reason. Alex T Snow 20:44, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

But it returned in Battlefield Play4Free so its appearance in BF3 is possible ;) --Masterius 23:20, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Glock 17 unlock spotted

... in a promotional shot from Dice about their Battlelog service

[5]

--Ghostdigga 13:02, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

It was also seen in the EA Pwned video, along with the G3 (mentioned), I forgot to add that. Alex T Snow 16:06, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

I hope this Glock 17 actually holds... well... 17 rounds. :P - Mr. Wolf 17:24, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

Well, the MP-443 does, so that could work, I'm thinking there's gonna be a Euro faction, with the Glock as the sidearm, and we've also seen the P90. Alex T Snow 00:17, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Now that reminds me... Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (console version of Battlefield 2) had Glock 17 as Euro Sidearm :D --Masterius 01:44, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

It did? Awesome! I was just guessing, but that basically confirms it :) Alex T Snow 03:54, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Here's some leaked gameplay for you guys, skip to 1:44, there's your Glock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfeOoEDYEt0) Would appear that the sidearms (at least) are not faction specific. Also looks like it holds 18 rounds but I'm assuming this is a '+1' affair. Chrausis 05:00, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Melee Animation is good :D Reloading after every bullet isn't :| --Masterius 05:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Alpha Footage

no doubt some of you have heard there is a closed alpha trial going on, and some of you may have watched the leaked footage online. i dont want to post links to these videos just incase its not aloud. but i can tell you, that the G36c, Glock 17, M27 IAR, SV98, MP7 and M1014 are in. --Sike 08:24, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Closed Alpha? Any news about Closed Beta for MoH: Limited Edition owners? It should be before Open Beta, shouldn't it? :\ --Masterius 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

A pretty nice selection of weapons appearing which is good to see, particularly the M27. Now just need someone to spot the L85 and I'll be happy \o/ --Chrausis 11:19, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

I guess it, Russian counterpart to M27 is going to be RPK-74M :O And British - L86? ;) --Masterius 12:41, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

You may possibly be right, and I hope you are. If it's in there, first person to deliver the information wins a shiny medal from myself :o --Chrausis 12:48, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

looks like US support starts with the M27, and the Russians start with RPK, british forces arent in the game... --Sike 13:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

The existence of other factions hasn't been denied (to my knowledge) but even so I hope either weapon is available --Chrausis 15:02, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Germans aren't in the game and there's a G36C. We can't rule anything out. Plus, there's always the possibility of DLC. Halorocka888 19:31, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

New factions/weapons added via DLC would be grand. --Chrausis 19:50, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, like they did with Euro Forces Pack for Battlefield 2 :D --Masterius 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

I've yanked the images off the page; as with the MW3 stuff, posting images from leaks is not allowed. Wait until they show up in something official. Evil Tim 02:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Why does it even matter? We should post everything about everything we know... :/ Alex T Snow 02:36, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Same reason we don't allow pirated or leaked movie footage; using that kind of thing reflects badly on the site. We can wait until these weapons are confirmed in official materials (which they will be in due course, I'm sure), we don't need to go using dubious sources. Evil Tim 02:39, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, for a sec it slipped my mind that once the game is out we will have everything :P Alex T Snow 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

And there are still screencaps from leaked version :O --Masterius 04:37, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Which ones? Evil Tim 05:30, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

The ones added by Gran28 - check page history. --Masterius 05:41, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, I thought where he said "Paris gameplay video" he was talking about a gameplay video released at some show in Paris. Evil Tim 05:49, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

The ones that I added was from a gameplay trailer released by DICE yesterday I think.--Gran28 08:04, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Ah, if that's so, then my bad. Kinda hard to separate official ones from current leaks. Better mention that on the talk page :) --Masterius 09:28, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

New Official MP Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emwEknzmyRo

can see a M4 with a Eotech and a Acog, and the front site is in when optics are attached.--Sike 08:32, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Possible return of the NDM-86

I was watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MgQMoPwGwM&feature=related and around 1:13-14, I thought I saw the pattern found on the straight mags that the 7.62mm NATO variant of the NDM-86 uses. EDIT: Okay at 1:15 at the maximum quality, I could clearly see that magazine is straight. This is no SVD guys, no SVD. --HashiriyaR32 18:09, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Good spot, wouldn't have noticed that myself. I wonder why they opted for the NDM-86 instead of the SVD? I assume the SVD is harder to get in Sweden meaning the studio had to find an alternative. Is it still labeled as an SVD within the game? --Chrausis 19:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

It is, and it was in MoH. You know, I think MoH was like a super pre-Alpha version of this game, there's and MP7 too, and a few others. Alex T Snow 20:03, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

I hope DICE do a better job on BF3 than they did on MoH, that game was shocking. There's probably some truth in that though :P --Chrausis 20:43, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Well, MoH multi was made by a small team from DICE in 6-7 months, and ALL of DICE has been working on BF3 for, like, 5 years, I'm not worried ;) Alex T Snow 23:52, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Fair play to them but you'd have thought issues with the game would have been patched following the game's release. Still, I don't deny that BF3 will be a far better game however I'm sure some of the issues from MoH will poke through. --Chrausis 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Well, we can hope the issues that poke through don't include those godawful skyboxes that MoH had. Evil Tim 03:26, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

DICE deliberately sabotaged MoH MP 'cause they were focused on BC2... :( But it is said that MoH 2 is being developed solely by DC. And it is rumored that MoH 2 will have Frostbite 2 Engine :D --Masterius 04:50, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Would be interesting to see what DC do with the Frostbite 2 engine, I wasn't all that impressed with the single player but taking into account that (as far as I'm aware) MoH was the studio's first game, it was an adequate effort. Was better than the multiplayer at least, in my opinion. --Chrausis 07:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

I've always said that if MoH's MP was the same as it SP, then the MP would be awesome, I have it just for the SP :) Alex T Snow 08:35, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Just played some more of SP and I have to say I agree, pretty intense stuff. --Chrausis 11:38, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Default Weapons

I just noticed that all of the US weapons are Armalites, and all of the Russian weapons are Kalashnikovs, it's cool. Alex T Snow 23:58, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Aside from the 'SVD' which isn't a Kalashnikov design, but we'll forgive you as it is outwardly similar. --Chrausis 03:16, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

True, but you got the point ;) Alex T Snow 03:21, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

SVD Clones. The third one is AK modified to SVD. Ain't Russian guns :P --Masterius 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

I do like the fact that each faction has it's own starting weaponry, I always liked that about BF2 (though I didn't play it much) --Chrausis 03:25, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Agreed :) --Masterius 04:58, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

AS Val

I can't find the video, but I'll post a link: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7447261.page Alex T Snow 19:31, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Cool! =) - Mr. Wolf 22:20, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Sniper Rifles can have iron sights

Yup. Alex T Snow 00:04, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

Hmmm. - Mr. Wolf 00:56, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

M1014

It's hard to tell because of the screwed up animation in the alpha, but you load a round into the chamber first, then the tube. EDIT: This is a good thing, I made sound like it wasn't :O Alex T Snow 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

M16A4

It fires semi, burst, AND auto, one of those fancy 360 degree fire selects or something :/ Alex T Snow 02:32, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

problem?

New Alpha Gameplay

In the gameplay, I noticed that the front sights are still present when optics are attached, that M16A4 is now burst-fire and that the US LMG is called M249 in-game. Bipod gameplay was shown too. I also spotted the M-416 at 0:55, maybe the M4A1 equivalent of the enemy forces? Gonzaga 18:45, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, yeah, they made it so the front sight is there, but disappears when aiming, the M16 has burst as well as auto (and semi), and the HK416 is an unlock, ONLY the default weapons are faction based, anyone can use unlocks, but the default ones might be usable by anyone later or something though. Alex T Snow 01:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

That's still much better than the MW games. Boy, you complain more about games than I do. :D - Mr. Wolf 02:19, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Defaults faction / unlocks not is how BFs 2 and 2142 worked, too. Evil Tim 03:08, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not complaining, I actually like the front sight disappearing system, if it's not there the gun wouldn't work, but if it was, then having an RDS would give you a better field of view. The M16's fire modes aren't too bad, as long as the weapons have the right ammo count, reload properly, and have +1 I'm happy. Things like the player loading it fancy or whatever are okay. Alex T Snow 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

M320 Standalone confirmed

This. Search "BF3 Grenade Launcher", and the vid has a G3 with an ACOG too. Alex T Snow 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

SIG 550 pretty much confirmed by Demize

http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/30377608852017152 Alex T Snow 02:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Swiss weapon of choice 8) --Masterius 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

A Few Weapon Vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoU7uBNvP0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LILgS-M2xo

Here's most everything in action, and with a few attachments. I love how the description for the M145 mentions the Canadian Army! :D Alex T Snow 04:37, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Looking good so far, spotted some people on my Steam friends list playing the alpha. So jealous. :( --Chrausis 10:43, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking very forward to this game. :D - Mr. Wolf 13:42, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Video Confirms new weapons for the game, as available in alpha build. In the first video we see an MP-7 PDW at 1:14, M1911 pistol at 1:57, RPK light machinegun on killfeed at 3:21, M27 IAR in killfeed at 6:12, M1014 shotgun at 7:34, G3 battlerifle on killfeed at 8:29, G36c assault rifle at 12:15, M320 grenade launcher on killfeed at 13:16. In the 2nd video we see RPK selection and model at 6:07 (usage following). Someone please update main page accordingly.--DaiTaNam 15:32, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Good of you to find everything, but leaked stuff isn't going on the main page :/ Alex T Snow 16:25, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

awww =(, thanks though.--DaiTaNam 17:39, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Sigh, The M145 uses the M4 reticle over the M249/240 reticle :( --Chrausis 17:47, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

That's the reticle my (standard version) ELCAN replica has on my airsoft C7A2, do you mean the M145 version is supposed to have a different one? Alex T Snow 20:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

Elcan M145 Optical Sight for M4 and M249/M240. Remember people, this is just leaked Alpha and DICE will probably make changes to the game to make it right... Oh, and RPK :| --Masterius 00:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh I see. And what do you mean, oh and the RPK? What's wrong with it? Alex T Snow 05:07, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Has the wrong bipod at the moment, doesn't look like the barrel is long enough to be an RPK either --Chrausis 05:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Well... since it has both synthetic furniture and curved magazine, it is RPKM (ignore the magazine color). However in-game description mentions that it uses 5.45x39 ammo, which is used in RPK-74M that is actually used by Russian Forces. So the point is, DICE should change the magazine model and rename the weapon to RPK-74M for Russians. That Militia can use whatever they want. --Masterius 05:36, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I didn't know that, so the curvature of the magazine in an AK/RPK-style weapon can be used to identify the caliber? DICE have clearly given alpha invites to the wrong people, should have gone to the inhabitants of IMFDB. --Chrausis 05:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:D And yeah. The curve gradation for Kalashnikovs' magazines goes as follows: 5.56 < 5.45 < 7.62, with 7.62 curve being particularly distinguishable ;) --Masterius 06:28, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

You learn something new everyday, now I can complain that the BF3 RPK is incorrect >:O --Chrausis 06:33, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I sent Demize a tweet (I made a Twitter accout JUST to send him stuff) that the RPK should be either the RPKM or RPK-74M (as I can't see the mags well enough), and also sent him another one saying the G3 should be the G3A3 :D Alex T Snow 17:42, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

That is dedication to informing the developer their game is wrong, well played. I also sent him a tweet concerning the M145's reticle. --Chrausis 18:30, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Very good :D Two problems I've noticed about SVD: First, as already been noticed, is that in-game model of magazine is straight NATO one instead of curved Russian one; second, is that in-game PKS-07 is using optical PSO-1 based reticle instead of its own magnified reflex reticle like this one: [6]. And here information about it: [7]. --Masterius 05:24, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Just recieved an invite to the alpha, I am so stoked to try this game out \o/ --Chrausis 09:44, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Sweet! Alex T Snow 04:56, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

1911 spotted

I just watched a video and the 1911 is back. This game's version appears to be the MEU model. I can tell from the slide, sights, and hammer. It appears to be the old model with the Springfield Armory slide. ShootingLiberal 23:53, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I can't see the grips, but it appears to be a stock M1911 with a commander-style hammer (the round one, not the MEU one), a silver 3-hole trigger, and a silver barrel. Oh, after Googleing I found that that IS the original version of the MEU :/ http://www.justpistols.co.uk/meu_001.jpg That's an airsoft gun, but it's EXACTLY the one from BF3. Alex T Snow 03:35, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Also, the MEU Pistol is currently designated M45 Pistol ;) So maybe in-game it is some kind of customized M1911 Pistol? :O --Masterius 05:36, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Alpha

I just got the invite for the Operation Metro Alpha and Will post info here if I can.--N-10 Aden 20:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Awesome, that's two of us now :) Alex T Snow

So my impressions of the alpha so far are largely positive, not the biggest fan of the map however. Too many narrow corridors that you have to enter to advance, meaning that the defending team can plonk a SAW there and wipe you out as you enter the meat grinder. The weapons feel nice: Plenty of recoil meaning that burst firing is essential. Definitely an improvement gameplay-wise compared to BC2, which wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. Looking forward to the beta now! \o/ --Chrausis 09:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Improvement compared to BC2, is obviously. The question is, improvement compared to BF2! :O--Masterius 10:31, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

I can't really comment on whether it's better than BF2 as I haven't really spent much time on it (5 mins max) but it is a fairly solid FPS in it's own right. One thing that has bothered me thus far is 3D spotting, do not like it at all though, it should be changed for minimap spotting. --Chrausis 10:46, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Ah, in that case, if you still have BF2, I would recommend you download and install Project Reality mod, which focuses on realistic armed forces. There are people who have BF2 solely for it. And, it has British Army! :D Their uniform and their weapons --Masterius 12:02, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Yeah and the Canadian Army :D I'll be getting BF2/RM soon. Keep in mind this is one of the smallest map and it's meant to be more infantry focused, they'll be much bigger ones with more vehicles ;) Alex T Snow 18:10, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Yup :D Their uniform and their weapons --Masterius 03:49, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

I hope that with more vehicles comes more teammates actually willing to take them out. No one playing engineer was even trying, just using their launchers on each other. Meant to ask if anyone still played BF2 as I was gonna get it in anticipation for 3, should organise some gamz. --Chrausis 18:57, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm trying to get BF2 again, loved that game, can't wait to convert it to PR. :) - Mr. Wolf 20:04, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Needs a bit of polish but what I played of the alpha was a lot of fun, roll on October --Chrausis 18:32, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

Sweet! Alex T Snow 14:28, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

Anyone have any questions about it? I'd be happy to answer them (as best I can) --Chrausis 17:27, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

All Alpha weapons

http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/new-battlelog-screenshots-show-weapons-awards/battlelog-weapon-list/ - Joey1666

I hope, they will make new icons for AR-15 guns. These no-sights ones are just weird. Also, what I've said in "A Few Weapon Vids" --Masterius 10:21, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

The in-game ones have carry handles but I'm sure you knew this, I can live with a few slightly inaccurate icons on the Battlelog though. The M27 IAR had no front sight post for some reason in-game, made the Eotech pretty much essential. --Chrausis 17:19, 2 August 2011 (CDT)

Doesn't it have flip-up sights? --Masterius 11:43, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

It does, yes, but the front sight is missing the front sight post. As in, the sights are there, but the post is not. Made aiming quite tricky as you can imagine. --Chrausis 12:34, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I'm assuming that's been fixed by now Alex T Snow 04:15, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

I hope so, was a nightmare. Still, barely used the RPK/IAR once the SAW was unlocked --Chrausis 04:44, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Cause the SAW's a real support weapon ;) Alex T Snow 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

^ This, though the fact that you can change the RPK and IAR to semi-auto was a nice feature --Chrausis 06:30, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Does IAR have better accuracy and SAW better firepower or SAW has both? Because if it is the second one, IAR seems kinda... useless. --Masterius 08:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

For sure, the IAR/RPK are definitely more accurate than the SAW, the SAW is quite difficult to use at range without deploying the bipod whereas the other two don't have as much recoil. I assume the lighter support weapons are there for the more mobile, front-line support guy. --Chrausis 09:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Pretty sure this legit as another article is saying they're from OXM so should they be moved to the page and not discussion ? Joey1666

why aren't confirmed weapons named?

such as the g3 ,m416 ,m27 iar and many more????

Can't put leaked stuff on the page, you'd know this if you read the rest of the discussion --Chrausis 17:21, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

yeah thats why all the weapons used in the alpha were named in an official blog and yet there still not up here , so dont tell me i need to read the discussion.

Do forgive me. Link to this blog? If it's legit you're free to edit the page if you wish. --Chrausis 06:12, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

I second the link request. Also, sign you posts. --Masterius 08:38, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

(TOSSED) RE-posting. You guys should simply look up a bit next time. --HashiriyaR32 11:18, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Except that's not official blog. It's fanblog that also makes assumptions and postes leaked stuff. --Masterius 11:55, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Looks like I'm tossing that out the window. --HashiriyaR32 13:20, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

An image which was leaked from the alpha, users of which were under a non-disclosure agreement which means we could get in trouble if we post it up here. Until we get an absolutely official list of weapons (most likely from future trailers and the public beta) the page will stay the same. --Chrausis 12:27, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Setups

So what kinda weapons and setups do you guys think you're gonna use?

Medic - G3 (or other BR) with a scope
Engineer - M1014 (or other shotty)
Support - M249 (or other belt fed) with a bipod
Recon - MP7 (or other SMG/PDW) with a suppressor
Sidearm - M1911

Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game ;) Alex T Snow 06:21, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

I'll probably play support mainly, it's what I spent 80% of the alpha doing and it's where I had the most fun. M240 with bipod, optic and flash suppressor will be my class of choice. --Chrausis 06:29, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

Obviously details will change as we get more info and after we actually play the game

^ This --Masterius 08:40, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

PWNED #7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE A couple things I missed the first time I saw it, there's the M4, M1911, and G17, but also a Desert Eagle and MP5SD2. Alex T Snow 16:17, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Desert Eagle? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! --Masterius 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

What's up with the Desert Eagle? It's a perfectly good combat pistol *trollface*. --Chrausis 06:11, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

:( --Masterius 06:22, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

Developers really need to stop putting large caliber handguns and revolvers in supposedly 'realistic' games, it just feels stupid. --Chrausis 06:38, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk? --Harold Francis "Dirty Harry" Callahan

.357 Magnum Colt Whitetailer, camper's wet dream :D --Masterius 12:45, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

Their rack of guns at 3:06 (presumably airsoft for modelling purposes) contains an M14 and a FAMAS, might be 2 more to expect in the full game. --Chrausis 17:00, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

M1911 + M14 = Old School Pack 8) --Masterius 02:48, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

Oops, I only thought to rewatch the range part, totally missed the FAMAS and M14 lol, good catch. Alex T Snow 05:15, 7 August 2011 (CDT)

Pre-order Spectact kits

[8][9]

Some images of the exclusive Spectact kits you get via pre-order, you'll also notice that the Russian assault class soldier is holding an AEK-971

Guess American Assault class gets XM8. Both weapons lost their respective trials. --Masterius 03:20, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

You do realise its just art , and probably wont be ingame --LukeWilliams010

Alright, will wait for confirmation regarding these weapons. Maybe it's just false alarm (and Desert Eagle too). --Masterius 05:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Nah, the AEK will most likely be in, and the AK-74M will go to the PLR faction. There's nothing official, but there's the AEK (RU) and 74M(PLR), SKS as a sniper (PLR), T-72 tanks (PLR), and MP lines recorded in English, Russian and Farsi, that's confermation enough. I've seen no evidence of the XM8, but who knows, they did say there's 10 times the unlocks as BC2... Alex T Snow 06:30, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Russian Forces clearly used AK-74M on Operation Metro map. The same is expected from final release. As for PLR, there are only silhouettes, and as such it's unclear which AK is used. --Masterius 06:50, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

The AEK will probably be a universal unlock for all factions if it is indeed in the final game (which I believe it will be, doubt they'd use a weapon in artwork and not include it in-game) --Chrausis 10:01, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

There most likely will be no AEK in final game. Those renders showing specact skins are pretty dated.

Fair enough, I didn't know that. Not too fussed either way, not a big fan of the weapon. --Chrausis 16:09, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

Please no XM8, at least not in the SP. If it's an MP only gun, I could care less whether it's in or not, though. I'm buying this for the SP, which I'm hoping will be at least semi-realistic. Spartan198 01:18, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

I kinda doubt they will put in the XM8, I'd rather see a full-size G36. :) - Mr. Wolf 17:25, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

M16A3

Demize99 tweeted that the M16A4 has been renamed to A3. Though we don't know if it still has all three modes, I'm thinking it doesn't. Alex T Snow 11:49, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

Hmm. Full Auto M16A4 seems more plausible to me than Picatinny Railed M16A3. Maybe call it M16A5? xD --Masterius 12:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

Nope, the A3 is actually an A4 with full auto, I thought it was an A2-style for a long time, but looks it up, its hard to find good descriptions, but the A3 and A4 are the same except burst/auto. No one on this site gets that because this site calls every A3-style an A4 with an A2 lower. Why? Because that's what armourers built them with, since they don't have A3s. In games the weapon is whatever it's meant to be because it's not "built" on anything. Alex T Snow 13:09, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

Ah, now that's funny. Turns out to be true[10][11]. Silly 'mericans couldn't get hold of manual burst firing, Military Command had to enforce it for them :) --Masterius 13:21, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

Hey, those are the two sites I found! I just couldn't find them again :P Anyway, look at the description on the first site, it's worded very old, saying things like identical to A2, but also same as A4. That's actually the most info I've seen on an A3 in one place, adding to the confusion, since there isn't good info around. Alex T Snow 15:16, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

No, Alex is wrong and so are the two websites Masterius linked to. The M16A3 is a full auto A2 (only used by SEALs and Seabees in very limited numbers), NOT a full auto A4. IMFDB policy is to identify a weapon visually, not by what the game calls it. In terms of A3 vs A4, the M16 in this game is intended to be an A4, so that's what it should be called. At least for the moment anyway. If it turns out the devs decide to axe the burst mode, we can classify it a C7A1, but until we know more, it should stay listed as an A4. I'm changing it back. Spartan198 01:11, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Uhm, Modern Firearms is respectable source. If you are claiming that it is not that means you have a better one? And the weapon can't be C7A1 since C7A1 is Model C7FT (Railed Model 715 itself) and Full Auto M16A4 is Model 901 (Full Auto Railed Model 705 itself). And there are differences between 705 and 715[12]. --Masterius 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Now I want to know whether Demize99 tweeted about RPK and SVD... --Masterius 03:25, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

The first A3s had A2 uppers, but were later (and still are) issued with railed uppers, that's where people get confused. A3 = Rail. Alex T Snow 05:02, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I do have a better source. It's called Defense Industry Daily [13]. Additionally, if you take a look at the M16A2 section of the M16 rifle series page, it says the exact same thing. I also never said MF wasn't a respectable source, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's wrong in this case. Spartan198 05:25, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

Other MIL-STD-1913 rails can be found on the front grips et. al. of the A3s and A4s, where they mount useful items like flashlights, laser pointers, grip pods, et. al.

There too. --Masterius 06:59, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

P.S. Besides, why does it feature Wikipedia in Additional Readings?

"Front grip" as in around the barrel, like a Knight's Armament M5 RAS. It has Wikipedia as an additional read because DID's article doesn't feature the M16 rifle's entire life story; Wikipedia does. In fact, why don't you take a look at Wikipedia where it states that the A3 is a full auto A2 and uses DID's article to verify it? Spartan198 13:07, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

There are a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is what Wikipedia refers to, the Colt Model 646 which is also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower and was only used by the Navy and Coast Guard. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) which is basically an M16A4 with full auto rather than burst. The following is what the US army website says about the A3 and A4: ""The M-16A3 is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The M-16A4 is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail." I would imagine that for modularity purposes the A3 in this game is the current version (Model 901). --commando552 13:22, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

Wow, thanks, that really clears it up, so we could call the full auto A2 the M16A2E3, and the full auto A4 the M16A3, that makes sure they have different names, right? Alex T Snow 17:42, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

Interesting, found information about M16A1 and M16A2E3 on U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps website. --Masterius 05:31, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

That PDF is actually wrong, as it states that the M16A2E3 is burst fire rather than full auto. Here is the US Army Military Specification for the M16A2E3 from 1992 (go to page 4, and look at the fire selector section). Although calling the earlier rifle the M16A2E3 takes away the confusion, it can still correctly be called the M16A3 as it was reclassified as this, kind of like how the M16A2 was originally the M16A1E1. --commando552 06:11, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

True, I guess someone just got lazy and didn't give the flat top version a new name, so the 646 and 901 are BOTH A3s. Alex T Snow 06:47, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

Editors probably made a mistake in that part because everywhere else it says automatic fire (right from the beginning). --Masterius 07:19, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

Heh, and after more searching: [14] --Masterius 07:21, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

Like I said, the very first A3s had A2 uppers, and after that they had rails. Alex T Snow 07:17, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

Put it this way, the only times it says something about not having a top rail, it doesn't. What I mean is, it always says something really vague like "full auto version of the A2", never mentioning specifics. I have not yet read somewhere that says that the A3 has a fixed carry handle, but have seen plenty that say the opposite. The problem was someone decided a long time ago that this site was for guns that are in movies only, not a gun wiki, so since the A3 is not in any civvie hands, and therefore not in any movies, it shouldn't be mentioned. All "A3"s in movies are A4s with A2 lowers, that is what the armourer used. However with the addition of newer weapons, and therefore newer entries, and the addition of games, where the guns don't really exist and therefore ARE anything, things are being added that never were before. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mk.18 is only a military weapon, right? That means that, say, in the first Transformers movie Josh Duhamel's Mk.18 wouldn't have been a real Mk.18, but some Civvie M4 with a short barrel and such, made to look exactly the same as one. But that doesn't make it a Mk.18, however it IS listed as such. I may be wrong and it might actually be a Mk.18, but then Canadian C7-series is a better example: NO civvies have them. Period. But it still has an entry, as it is in Reality Mod, among a few others. Now we see the problem with not having an M16A3 entry: there might not be any in civvie hands, but there are some in games, like BF3, but COD4 singleplayer comes to mind as well, and I'm sure there are others. Hmm, I guess what this comes down to is we need an M16A3 listing on the M16 page. All of them should be listed, even if the only info is the name, a sentence about the weapon, and mention that it has never been in anything, otherwise we get stuff like everyone on the site getting false info about a particular weapon, and this happens. Alex T Snow 16:14, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

That is specific. "Full auto version of the A2" means it's externally identical to the A2, but has fully automatic. I don't see how that's vague. If you've got a credible source saying A3s are "now issued" with flat top uppers, I'd like to see it. But if you look at the pattern of M16 rifle development, it's very likely that such a modification would bear a designation other than A3 (the only two exceptions to this in the platform's history were the Air Force's 11.5" barreled XM177s and when the Army dropped the Model 777 M4 for the Model 920 M4. Josh Duhamal used an M933 in Transformers, not a Mark 18. Mark 18-type carbines with 10.3" or 10.5" barrels can be had by anyone with proper licensing. But the reason we have Mark 18 mock-ups in movies listed as Mark 18s is because, like I already pointed out, it's IMFDB policy to identify the weapon on a visual basis. If it looks like a Mark 18, we call it a Mark 18 unless some other way of concretely identifying the weapon (such as an armorer ID) comes along. Your argument about civilian acquisition is a dead end since armorers like MPM are civilians, yet have fully automatic M4s, AK-47s, M60s, and so on in their possession. The only games I've played with full auto M16A4s are CoD4 and MoH, the pages for both of which identify the rifle as an M16A4. If you want an A3 category added, either take a look at the M16 rifle talk page to see why it was deleted (where MPM himself states that the M16A3 has the same upper receiver as the A2) or come to the forum and state your case as to why said category should be reinstated. But as per IMFDB policy, the M16 on this page should be classified as an A4. Spartan198 00:14, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

As soon as my problems with registration are solved, I'll bring this discussion to the light. --Masterius 02:44, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

Bah. Is there any other way to contact forum administration other than through the forum? --Masterius 02:02, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Leave a message on MT2008's talk page about it. He's an administrator on the forum. Spartan198 13:01, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

Both M16s

Demize confirms multiple M16s! I'm expecting the A3 and A4 obviously Alex T Snow 16:05, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, that's pretty cool. =) - Mr. Wolf 20:32, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Now that's something I would like to take a look at in Beta :) --Masterius 02:44, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

He also confirmed not everything's in the Beta, but hopefully these two will be. Alex T Snow 16:22, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

I see very little point in including 2 M16 models, just takes up space that could be filled with something new :\ --Chrausis 04:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

The automatic one will probably be the starting weapon to balance it against another starting weapon, and burst fire one will probably be for everyone to use as an unlock. You see, so that to please everyone :) --Masterius 05:52, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

I gueessssss, suppose they don't have to remodel it or anything either, just change the weapon's code/animations. --Chrausis 05:58, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

I think the A4 should be the starter and the A3 should be the unlock, makes much more sense to me. The starter ARs in COD4 were the M16A4 and AK-47 and that was just fine. Or maybe you can modify a base M16 into other variants. - Mr. Wolf 15:09, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

I guessed it right: Demize has confirmed that M16A3 will be the default US assault rifle for the Assault kit[15] --Masterius 12:00, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Gamescom trailers and official gameplay vids

We've got official footage for 2 weapons, one already known (MP-443), and one all-new (SCAR-H CQC with Grippod and Aimpoint optic). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDfPxF3EFE . In the Co-Op live gameplay from the devs, one of them picks up an unknown pump action shotgun with a 4+1 capacity.--HashiriyaR32 11:06, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Nice! Wonder if SCAR-L in? Oh, and they give civilian shotguns to military again! *shakes head* Already noticed that with M1014 before. --Masterius 02:44, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

There isnt 2 m16 models , where do you get your info lol there is one the m16a3

INCOMING

*kaboom*

EA just released the fact sheet with all the weapons/attachments/specs listed, there's the weapon page.

EDIT:and here's your proof --Ghostdigga 13:22, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Is that M39 the Finnish Mosin-Nagant? Or is there another battle rifle that uses the M39 designation? Also, that list is missing the Groza bullpup AR that one dev caught one of the testers reloading.--HashiriyaR32 13:42, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

The M39 refers to the M14 variant used by the Marines (this). And the Groza bullpup was actually the A-91 (not the 9A-91 from BC2... Russian weapon designations are confusing)

--Ghostdigga 13:56, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Good find, kinda wish I hadn't looked at it though XD --Chrausis 14:11, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

AHAHAHAHA, "SCAR H CQB" made my day. But at least they wrote ACOG, not ACOG Sight, nor ACOG Scope. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

That is what FN Herstal calls it [16] though does it really belong in the carbines section? I would have thought it still belonged with the battle rifles. --Chrausis 14:38, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

They call it CQC, C for Combat not B for Battle. But calling it CQB is still more correct than calling it simply SCAR-H, like in Modern Warfail 2, because that usually refers to SCAR-H STD, the one w/ the normal length barrel. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:47, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

I see, fair enough. As you said though, at least they were slightly closer than some games. --Chrausis 14:51, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, this does nothing to allay my fears about it being a generic AMURIKA V EVUL ARABS AND KOMMIES shooter. The Wierd It 16:37, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, looks like y'all missed them calling it the M93R, rather than just the 93R like it should be. The Wierd It 16:39, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

A few things; first, it looks like this list is a little dated, as Demize confirmed both M16s, but even though details might have changed, I bet this is a 100% list. Second, remember this doesn't include stuff like the M320 (as it's a Gadget in terms of game), and mounted weapons. Third, I'm assuming the M39 (M14) will be semi only, as only it and the SKS are in the Battle Rifle section, with the G3 moved to Assault Rifles. Similarly, I'm betting the Glock 18 and Beretta 93R will be auto and burst only, otherwise the Glock 17 and M9 would be pretty useless. Fourth, notice that there is a P90 AND a P90TR. I'm thinking if you attach an RDS to the P90TR, it becomes the standard one, like COD4's MP5SD. Lastly, what's a T44 pistol? I did a quick search and all I got was this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/T44.jpg Oh, also, I'm totally using the M82 with irons, just for kicks :) Alex T Snow 19:49, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

I'm thinking the "T44" might be the sidearm for Iranian forces, like the KH2002 will be their assault rifle. I don't know what it could be referring to, though; as far as I know, Iran uses P226 copies as their standard sidearm.

This looks really suspicious to me. No G36E (as was expected from BF2 (L85 too)), no SG 550 (as was confirmed by Demize), no multiple M16 (wasn't that said by Demize?), "Battle Rifles" actually being Marksman Rifle (M39) and Semi-Automatic Carbine (SKS), several weapons being ported from BC2 (AEK-971, A-91, PP-2000, Saiga-20K, MP-412) instead of BF2 (Bizon or Vityaz, Saiga-12K) for no reason; Beretta 93R and Glock 18 are actually law enforcement automatic pistols and will overshadow regular pistols... And T44? WW2 prototype gun being put in pistols?

If this "fact" sheet was putted on official Battlefield Blog, I would have believed it. As of now I take it with a grain of salt. --Masterius 03:38, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

The sheet lists an SG553 in the carbines section. The Wierd It 05:14, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

That would be like someone saying: "We want M4 in BC2!" and someone responded: "There is M16 there". One weapon is assault rifle and other is carbine. They shouldn't cancel each other. Really. --Masterius 05:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Also, how exactly do you think the "straight pull bolt" under the weapon accessories could work? Either it will be some bullshit about somehow putting a straight pull bolt on bolt actions to increase ROF which will annoy the hell out of me, or I suppose it could be putting a straight pull bolt on assault/battle rifles to increase accuracy and turn them into sort of sniper rifles. Either way, I don't like it. --commando552 05:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

T44 is what they are calling the Taurus Model 44 revolver. --commando552 05:35, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, so the revolver unlocks are Russian .357 Magnum and Brazilian .44 Magnum... American .357 Magnum like Colt and S&W would have been more reasonable, honestly... But yeah, some wouldn't want revolvers in military shooters at all. --Masterius 05:52, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Sigh, more revolvers. I'm assuming that the straight pull bolt will be for snipers as opposed to assault/battle rifles, either for bolt actions to increase ROF (even though straight pulls are supposedly more tiring than turn bolts) or for the semi-auto snipers for a bit more accuracy? Teeny tiny list of machine guns, sadface. --Chrausis 06:23, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Weapon Reloads

Anybody seen the GamesCom Coop-Demo? I just noticed how the guy reloads his empty shotgun. First round into the chamber, all the following into the tube. I think they got it right this time. Killerpixel 10:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

I didn't see that one, but I saw the M1014 reload in the leaked alpha footage, and it does do that :) Alex T Snow 10:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Tactical pistol reloads too :o --Chrausis 10:30, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

MP7A1 Alpha Gameplay

The amount of Alpha gameplay videos on Youtube is insane, but in one of them I did see an MP7A1. Looked like the same model used in the Medal of Honor reboot. It was only seen for a moment, so hopefully someone can add more information? Miyazawa 22:11, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

The MP7 is setup the same way as the MoH one, using the stock, grip, and pistol sights, but obviously has a proper empty reload. :) Alex T Snow 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I have tried to add the MP7A1 on the BF3 weapon listing underneath the submachine guns but someone keeps on deleting it. I havent uploaded an image from youtube because honestly I dont know how, can someone help out with this and stop deleting this post as the weapon IS CONFIRMED. User:Valant 2:58PM, September 9, 2011 (PST)

No, it's not. You're not allowed to post anything from the Alpha build. The Wierd It 17:18, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Valant here reposting MP7 gameplay, and to reply YES I CAN post because most weapons you see on page from the alpha/PAX gameshows. In fact for the most part all of the weapons should be deleted because they are from the same build. I have provided a link to show first hand footage. Once the game is released and this is fact checked, the comment I left before can be deleted. Here is the link again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvvdBhH0r4

It's just not getting into your head, isn't it? Screencaps from non-official/leaked footage are STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. SO yeah, it's nice and all that you're linking that in the discussion, but please DO NOT edit the main page again until beta comes out. --HashiriyaR32 17:51, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Oh REALLY? Because last time I checked there are several screen caps and images that are of some low quality camera taking a picture of a screen DURING ALPHA! Check the muther f*****g G36C section, or The UMP45, the AK74M, the DIO KH2002, and G3A3. These are all weapons from the same build of the game and these have pages, ergo the MP7 should have its own section. Now, im off to put the post BACK UP so suck it.

You are confusing Closed Alpha with NDA and Game Shows (Expos) intended for public. Those ones are categorised as Pre-alpha‎ (expos before Alpha) and Pre-beta (expos after Alpha). And you are just asking to get reported. --Masterius 13:03, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

.....reported.....really....well then if thats the case as I posted on another MP7 related discussion below Ill wait till the "official" news about it comes out

Full Auto Carbine

Been reading and watching videoa and they all have the M4A1 listed as a carbine. Does anyone know if the M4A1 fires full auto, three round bursts, or a single shot when fired?

The M4A1 is a carbine that is full auto or semi, just like real life, is that wierd? Alex T Snow 14:44, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Carbines

What makes me really happy is they got the term Carbine right; the M4A1 is an M16 Carbine, the AKS-74U is an AK-74 Carbine, the SCAR-H CQC is a SCAR Carbine, the G36C is a G36 Carbine, the SG553 is a SG550 Carbine, and, well, you could call the A-91 an AKM Carbine I guess. That's also why the relatively short HK416 is in the Assault Rifle section and not the Carbine one: it's not a Carbine. Alex T Snow 14:52, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Trivia Information:

IRL in addition to Assault Rifle and Carbine category, there is also so called Sub-Carbine category (that is, shorter than Carbine). Four of the above mentioned pairs have three guns in these categories (and three of these four pairs even have additionally Automatic Rifle/Light Machine Gun variant but that's a different story). And here is the list:

M4 Commando < M4 < M16

AKS-74U < AK-105 < AK-74(M)

G36C < G36K(E) < G36(E)

SG 553 < SG 551 < SG 550

And to which category HK416 belongs, depends on the variant. Quite a list, isn't it? ;)

And while AKM didn't have official carbine (there was a prototype and that's it), SKS can be considered one somewhat :P

Maybe that was interesting to read :) --Masterius 16:45, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Again...

What's with the people using this "fact sheet" to clutter the main page with weapon titles. Can't they wait for more substantial material before adding stuff? --Masterius 15:02, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

Agreed; pages that are just lists of weapons without pictures or really any info look terrible, let's wait for them to show up. The people who care can find it here on the talk page, or Google :/ Alex T Snow 17:20, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

Leaked info is not allowed, and entries with no pics or info aren't very much liked either. Alex T Snow 19:29, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

^ Precisely. Official artwork, renders, graphical announcements (like that for Physical Warfare Pack, or Battlelog), screenshots, trailers, gameplay videos; screenshots made from official trailers and gameplay videos. All those things will do. --Masterius 06:50, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

UMP

you can see it in a video from nvidia, the player to the right of the interview, you can see him using a UMP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs

unkown what calibre, but im just gonna assume its UMP45 --Sike 06:38, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

HK416

another video from nvidia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUyIIIKta44

if you pause at 0:30 it looks like the HK416--Sike 06:42, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

M27 IAR, to be specific. Based on the HK416, yes, but not a normal HK416. Spartan198 12:25, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

Well the Hk146 is in, it appeared on the battlelog stat page. --Sike 09:25, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Weird Weapon

What is that weapon the guy starts using at 2:24, in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCNdEYCtgs ? It looks like an AS VAL, but that optic setup is weird. I wish they sticked to the real life russian optics, instead of creating rail-attaching versions. E.g.: The PK-AS (russian holographic) is actually offset to the left side of the gun, not aligned with the bore or mounted on a rail.Gonzaga 08:20, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

Maybe it's quite hard to get hands on real Russian weapons in Sweden, so work is done with what's available... Oh, and PK-AS isn't holographic sight, it's reflex sight. --Masterius 10:56, 21 August 2011 (CDT)

It might be the VSS. You can use iron sights on a sniper rifle so they might allow you to use reflex and holographic sights as well.

There's no VSS, there's a VAL, but this guy's an Engineer, so it doesn't matter either way. Alex T Snow 12:14, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Fact Sheet

People, while it has been confirmed that the fact sheet is indeed official, it's also been confirmed that it IS NOT A FINAL LIST, it only shows the equipment available SO FAR. So don't worry, I'm sure many more equipment options will come (I hope these include an MP5). Gonzaga 20:34, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, Demize wouldn't confirm whether the Karkand guns will be able to be used in standard BF3, but the way he said it seemed to hint they might, so I'm betting we'll see the MP5 and PP-19 Bizon. Alex T Snow 21:26, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

Gonzaga that's pretty much false hope , because there not going to release an official fact sheet and then add "many more guns" its not even wishful thinking its just stupid.and Alex when somethings is unconfirmed that doesn't mean its automatically going to be in the game, and if its anything like bfbc2 which it is, the guns will be seperate like the Vietnam expansion.

First, no need to call me stupid. And second, do you really think they can't add more stuff to the game 3 months away from the release? Not even the beta is out! Plus, by equipment I didn't necessarily mean more weapons. I guess you thought so because my example was a weapon.Gonzaga 18:03, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

I did not call you stupid, I called your idea stupid.You really think that there going too add tonnes more "equipment" after they've released an official statement than that is stupid.

What's stupid here is you not signing your posts. :P - Mr. Wolf 12:06, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

Lol owned :D Alex T Snow 17:47, 27 August 2011 (CDT)

SKS has a plastic stock

Demize confirmed. Alex T Snow 13:36, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

Battlefield 3 full weapons list

It is up on official bf3 blog.

That's not the official blog. As it says in the description, it's a fan site. GunEnthusiast 05:21, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, but it is news of an actual official announcement. --Nomad175 00:00, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

The announcement was leaked, meaning that the information it contains has no place on the main page. Until we get official imagery of each weapon, they should not be added to the main page. Just makes everything look a bit messy and half-arsed if you ask me. --Chrausis 06:49, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

About SVD

So were there any news from Demize or some official material released that confirmed that the magazine for SVD was fixed or not? Should it have been changed to NDM-86 on the main page? Only seen it in leaked Alpha (which could have been a temporal state, considering that SVU in BC2 had proper magazine (SVD and SVU use the same one), and this one probably ported from MoH for testing purposes). --Masterius 12:35, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

Battleblog #8

Sig 553 and Strela/Igla launcher confirmed in a post on the official Battlefield blog [17] --Chrausis 10:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Heh, suppressive fire with carbine :) And the modelled launcher is Strela-2 (NATO reporting name: SA-7 Grail) --Masterius 13:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Thought as much, was the disk-shape thingy at the front that gave it away. <3 the weapon customisation that BF3 will offer though, gonna be awesome. --Chrausis 14:46, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, the primary indicator for Strela-2 is that, errr, under-barrel thingy with tube-and-spike shape while every other model is ball-and-tube. Here is a nice chart: [18]

And yeah, customisation is great \o/ --Masterius 15:22, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

That's the bit I meant, forgive my extremely technical description XD --Chrausis 17:06, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Oh, heh, right. Thought you meant the launcher tube itself :) --Masterius 01:47, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

The incoming weapon modification options seem very exciting....lots of options to tailor your weapon to your specifics. However, the only detail about the blog that keeps me sceptical is the fact that you need to unlock every feature for each weapon individually. Knowing that from MW2 that would mean hours and hours and hours of playing with just one weapon to finally unlock the parts needed to tailor it to your specifics, only to then unlock the next weapon you've been longing for and then you need to start again from scratch with that weapon. Rather frustrating IMO. Would a better idea to make the modification parts a global unlock, so that once you unlock say supressors with an assault rifle, it counts for ALL other assault rifles too...same with LMG's, Pistols, Shotgungs, etc. WARthog 03:05, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

"T44"

Found it; 2nd video, 21 seconds in. Alex T Snow 04:13, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Link please? --HashiriyaR32 09:25, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

OOPS, sorry, here: http://ob-game.blogspot.com/2011/08/battlefield-3-three-videos-from-pax.html Alex T Snow 13:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

ummm you're wrong thats an mp412 , the scope also looks russian which gives it away

Actually it doesn't look like the Mp412 at all or the T44, it looks a little different, take a look at this image I snapped of it

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/mp412orcoltpython.jpg/

To me it almost looks like a Colt Python from Black Op's, notice the iron sights, front and rear (the white markings) and the silhouette of the barrel and cylinder as well as the positioning of the grip, it's hard to say but my vote is towards a Colt Python. DICE did say they were going to add Faction specific weapons and if you look a little earlier the guy was using a Stinger. I'd think a Colt Python .357 Magnum would go nicely as a US analogue to the Russian MP412 .357 Magnum. Also to the Scope, it could just be a Russian style scope attached to a US weapon, they did say that the customization was huge so it's a possibility Draco122 12:47, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Its an mp412 , if it was a python it would have grooves down the barrel housing which it doesn't its solid like the mp412 also I noticed the break action latch near the iron sight, which also corresponds to the mp412 , the python does not have a break open design. *Edit* also the colt python is not in the game.

The devs didn't say there isn't any other revolver in the game, thus shouldn't you, Persistent Mr. Anonymous. --Masterius 04:17, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Well, it's NOT a 412, but it could be a Python, some S&W, the Raging Bull, I don't know. The lighting's wierd, but it looks stainless to me, which would be good if the MP412 is black. The SKS, which is synth, has been spotted with an EOTech, so unlocking American optics for Russian guns and vice versa is confirmed. I'm thinking every optic, with the exception of the 6x and 12x sniper scopes, can be used on anything. Alex T Snow 16:33, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

Ok, if you cant indentify that gun, then you shouldn't really be on the site to be honest, because you can clearly tell that's a mp412 the colt python has barrel housing grooves this doesnt it solid like an mp412 , you can also see the break action latch is,colt pythons dont have this because they are not break reloaders. *Edit* and how can you say that it is stainless? its clearly black with a synthetic grip.

In that case, by your rationale you should leave right now. Ignoring everything else about the gun, look at the muzzle end. This pistol has a rounded barrel with a raised rib. The Mp412 does not. Also, the locking indents on the cylinder are wrong for a MP412, where they are small cuts coming from the rear of the cylinder, rather than the more traditional ones shown here. The part of the frame that meets the rear of the cylinder is also wrong for a MP412, which would have a "step" rather than a smooth ramp where it widens to the width of the cylinder. Due to the motion blur ghosting on this image it is really hard to tell anything about it so we will just have to wait and see. Also, sign your posts and stop being so condescending. --commando552 03:22, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Also, just noticed that in the same clip the person in front of you has a G36C, so that can go ahead and be confirmed, along with the Stinger for that matter. --commando552 03:47, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Hmm, these are official videos, not DICE ones, but offical meaning by a site/company etc; should they be added to the main page? It's kind of a grey area. Alex T Snow 05:25, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

PAX and NVIDIA are definitely can be considered official source just as E3 and IGN. --Masterius 05:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

ok lets just leave it as the t44/mp412 for now, if we cant agree on what gun it is, then theres no point arguing senselessly we'll have to wait until the game comes out to properly identify it --Lukewilliams010 14:10, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

M4 and M4A1

Was just browsing through twitter when i noticed something.

http://twitter.com/#!/Demize99/status/108437158804717568

both the M4 and M4A1 is in. like how the the M16A3 and A4 are in. --Sike 10:54, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Now that's amuses me because I had exact the same thoughts. Seems I wasn't alone xD --Masterius 11:10, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Seems to me more that BF3 will have much more weapons than we thought. Well, let's just pick one up and kick some asses with it :) --RaNgeR 11:12, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

I think its pretty cool they are getting multiple variants for each gun. Heres hoping for an AK-47 unlock.--N-10 Aden 12:06, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

On the same twitter he makes a point of saying that the M4A1 was designed for special forces whereas the standard weapon that would be found being used by Marines is the M4. My spidey sense is telling me that the standard weapons will be the burst M4 and M16A4, and they will be upgradable to full auto M4A1 and M16A3 (flat-top receiver won't tally and the number will make no sense to the layman but whatever). --commando552 16:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Nope, he already said the full auto ones are default. But I'd figure in SP we're more likely to see the burst ones. Alex T Snow 17:31, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

SP: M4 for regular Marines, M4A1 for USSOCOM units, something like that. --Masterius 02:50, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

In any case, it's awesome they added variants of many weapons. --RaNgeR 17:46, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Indeed. Alex T Snow 18:28, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

Can't remember where I saw it from, probably from Battlefield wiki but I remember seeing that the weapon variants were based on each Classes Kit selection. So for example, take the Assault class, as it's being merged with the Medic Class, Players would have the option to equip either a Grenade Launcher of carry around a Medkit. So for example, an M16A3 could be default setting with a Medkit as a piece of equipment but the M16A4 is used when attaching a grenade launcher. But that's just my theory Draco122 12:37, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

It's not really merging, they're just going back to how they had it in BF2142 (Assault = Medic + Assault, Recon = Sniper + Special Forces, Engineer = Anti-tank + Engineer and Support = um, Support, his main "thing" being his extra droppable things like a portable shield and a sentry gun). In 2142 every Assault had a Medkit since you don't want to give your medics the option of being even more useless, the optional item for the Assault class was the defib. The fastest way to get TK'd as Assault was to have someone realise you weren't carrying one. I imagine this one will be the same, Support will always have an ammo box and assault will always have a health box. Evil Tim 05:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

PWP Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ukxgldpOo&feature=feedu

warning, containts footage from operation metro they some players may find offensive. --Sike 08:58, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

That is... SKS? Reminds me of AK-47 in MW2 *sadface*

Another thing noted: incorrect reticles for M145 and PKS-07 are still in... --Masterius 09:27, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Remember though DICE did say that you can "customize" your weapon, that might be a SKS just heavily modified by the player rather than appearing as the "actual" weapon. Who know's if we're lucky, the SKS might be featured as standard in it's default config Draco122 13:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

As much as I would want it to be, I doubt that what DICE meant by customization. BF3 so far doesn't seem to have customization as elaborate as, for example, Ghost Recon: Future Soldier. Thus this tacticool SKS is probably the only one *sadface* --Masterius 13:44, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

"DAO-12" -.-... OMG! What the heck is their deal with the DAO-12? Can't they just call it how it supposed to be called?! --RaNgeR 10:01, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

DICE seems to have obsession with this "designation" as it tracks way back from Battlefield 2 (2005) --Masterius 10:16, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

DAO-12 was used because of a legal conflict with Armsel using the Striker name, it became a fan favorite so they kept the name. --Ghostdigga 14:09, 2 September 2011 (CDT) i asked Demize on twitter and he replied saying it was a homage to BF2 --Sike 14:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, and we all know how bad most gamers are at identifying weapons, the MW3 crowd widely believed the ACR was a SCAR because the ACR was tan (in MW2 the SCAR was tan and the ACR was this ugly grey colour, and now the ACR is tan). If they renamed it Striker a lot of BF players would think it was a different gun :/ Alex T Snow 14:20, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Er, that doesn't really sound like a bad thing :/ --Masterius 15:29, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

i asked demize about it, and he said they named it the DAO-12 as a homage to BF2 --Sike 07:57, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

M39 EMR confirmed

I asked demize if there was an m14 battle rifle and he replied ,and said there is a M39 EMR so that can now be added to the weapons list.--Lukewilliams010 16:07, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

He also said SG 550 would be in, official blog showed SG 553. And SKS is "SKS". We need official illustrated material. As soon as it is available - go ahead, put it in. --Masterius 16:29, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Yup, if we don't have a picture, don't add it, even if it's not leaked. It's not like we won't have everything up pretty soon. Alex T Snow 16:53, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

M4A1/M16 Gas block question

I've seen quite a few topics concerning the lack of a visible gas block on the M4's and M16's in a number of shooters, and I was wondering if it was possible that the gas blocks could be either low-profile gas blocks that were either not visible or were actually under the RAS, or if the gas blocks were actually integrated into an after-market RAS. It seems odd to me that developers would repeatedly make the same mistake over different games in different franchises.

It's possible to just remove the front sight without removing the gas block on a standard M16 rifle and M4 but it'd be a little exposed. Excalibur01 17:23, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

Do you mean with a hacksaw? Aren't the gas block and front sight a single piece of metal? It is however possible to get a low profile gas block (relatively easy replacement) that only extends above the barrel to the height of the gas tube plus a few mm, so that certain free floating RIS systems can be mounted over the top of it. --commando552 18:39, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

That was my question; with all the Military consultants they have coming in and looking at this stuff, I'd always assumed that they had just modeled an after market RIS and low-profile gas-block.

--Hominis Solus 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

I wonder why developers won't just model Flat Top Mounts\Risers on the sights for M4s\M16s ? That's how the problem is solved IRL, including in U.S. Military. --Masterius 04:16, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

I'd imagine that most modellers don't realise that the front sight is also the gas block, so they see no problem in removing it for aesthetic/gameplay purposes. 99% of gamers probably don't realise either. --commando552 09:15, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Both the modellers and the gamers doesn't supposed to care about this kind of things, only people like us, it can concern. --RaNgeR 09:31, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

It was well after I got into learning about firearms and such that I found out the front sight (gas block) and stock tube (buffer tube) are required for the AR series to function, so you can't remove either pretty much. Alex T Snow 21:53, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

It's true that the stock front sight post is also the same piece of metal as the gas block, but you can remove them so long as you put a new gas block on.

--Hominis Solus 21:58, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I meant you can't just take it off :) Alex T Snow 23:30, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

A-91

Confirmed to be the more modern 5.56mm version by Demize. Alex T Snow 22:08, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

Guillotine Teaser Trailer

Anyone else seen it? There's a mortar that the player-character uses to send up flares (I think they called them illumination rounds) and I think the player-character also uses a Mk. 17 with some sort of 4x scope. Sorry, I'm still fairly new to this. GunEnthusiast 05:27, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

I think the mortar is an M224, and yes it was a Mk.17 with an ACOG (magazine looked a bit small in the mag-well, but could be the angle as could only be seen when climbing the wall). Also, it looks like the guy who is stabbed at the end of the video is carrying a G3A3 with an ACOG. --commando552 07:35, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

M16 series reload animation

I'm fairly new to this site, though I've been following it closely to see the development of the firearms that will appear in Battlefield 3. I've been reading that a lot of you guys are expecting an accurate portrait of the M16 series reload animation in the game. I just wanted to ask how do you properly reload an M16 in real life? It is my understanding that when the rifle is empty, you load it by pulling the charging handle. But when there is a bullet still in the chamber you just need to press the bolt catch. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just want to get this clarified since I've never been able to understand the reload mechanic of the M16. Santos 01:14, 16 September 2011 (CDT)

With the exception of loading the gun for the first time or clearing a jam, you never need to touch the charging handle. If you are reloading from a partial magazine, there will be a round in the chamber so all you need to do is drop out the magazine and push a new one in. When you you empty the magazine in an M16 type weapon the bolt locks back automatically, so you drop out the magazine, put a new one in, and then all you need to do is push the bolt release on the left side to let the bolt go forwards (you can also push the forward assist if you feel like it). --commando552 04:20, 16 September 2011 (CDT)

Well, the third reason you might is if you just picked it up off the ground, to check it's still mechanically sound. Though that sorta falls under clearing a jam. Edit: Also you might part-pull it on drawing it if you're into brass checks, though given how often FPS characters change weapons habitually brass-checking on draw would probably indicate a very short memory. "Yep, still there from ten seconds ago, how bout that." Evil Tim 02:09, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

You could rack the charging handle if you like, but the proper way to reload and empty M16 type weapon is to just slap the bolt release. I call it the ping pong paddle. A lot of games forgets about little things like reloads for weapons Excalibur01 01:02, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Who removed the MP7!?!

Okay, who took away the MP7 from the submachine gun catergory? I spent a whole 20 minutes adding that section of the article and some guy just deleted it. Why? It was really in the game and not in any way spammy or vestigial. Whoever took away put it back. Come on, I don't want to remake the whole thing.

THere are NO official images of it. And no official video footage has featured it. Don't post images from the Alpha --HashiriyaR32 03:20, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

But the fact remains that it has been seen in the game, and it was already on the page before I made the changes.

Why can't I use the Alpha? I don't know if there is or is not a rule regarding alpha version footage and stuff. I thought the purpose of this site was to chronicle what weapons were used in what movies/games/TV/Anime. If I have evidence that the MP7 is in BF3, why does it matter whether or not it was from the Alpha or official footage? The image I used was from a gameplay video I saw on Youtube. Does this mean no one can use their own gameplay videos?

No, it means that you have to wait for officially released material or for the game to actually come out. This applies to leaked gameplay footage, images from leaked betas, dubious leaked information in general (eg the MW3 leaks from Kotaku) unapproved on-set photos, leaked movie footage like that infamous cut of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and so on. Building an article is not a race, if we have to wait to confirm something is official, that's what we do. Evil Tim 03:49, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I suppose that makes sense, I'm gonna keep that in mind when making contributions in the future.

I thought anything to do with the Alpha was under an NDA anyway? The Wierd It 04:31, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, if you look at the screencap he posted the guy who leaked it deliberately blacked out his own name. Obviously knew he shouldn't have been recording it and posting it in the first place. Evil Tim 04:47, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Okay, for the last frickin' time. Please DO NOT add weapons that are not in any official gameplay vids/trailers/screenshots, until they are.--HashiriyaR32 14:02, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

@ HashiriyaR32: Hey! I was also someone who tried adding the section of the MP7. Its in the alpha videos but to be fair, so is every freaking gun that is on this page! The only videos that are available are the ones from the alpha. Seriously take the amount of time it takes to delete the post and go onto youtube and see for yourself! In fact, after posting this I will repost the MP7 with a link to the youtube video...Also FYI I happen to love this website and for all it stands for and I try to monitor several different games to make sure the info is correct, I would never want to add something that didnt exist in a videogame/movie. Valant

What? Nothing on the page is from the alpha, everything's from screenshots, trailers, concept art, or official videos, like EA Pwned, IGN, etc. If you don't believe me, give me an example. Alex T Snow 18:52, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

@Valant, its as simple as this. To take part in the Alpha you had to sign a non disclosure agreement. That means that any footage that you have seen was illegally distributed. Until guns show up in an official (and legal) source, they shouldn't be listed here. The MP7 may very well be a weapon in the game, but the point is that at this point that information has not been publicly release, to say nothing of the fact that legal screenshots cannot be posted on here. --commando552 19:11, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Right, and as soon as the Beta is out, we can add everything, it's only a week-ish, and besides, WE all know the MP7 & others are in, and they can be mentioned on the talk page, just the official page can't have it. Alex T Snow 19:39, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Then I should just delete this whole page then shouldnt I? Because again every weapon we are seeing IS NOT CONFIRMED! There is no beta released and only Alpha videos....Seriously this is bullshit

The difference is that all the other weapons are from material that was released by EA, or from footage that they allowed to be shot (The images from the G36C section are from an interview with one of the developers IIRC) as opposed to the video you posted which was illegal made and distributed by someone breaking the NDA they signed. As you seem unable to grasp this, just wind your neck in for a week or so until the Beta is released, and then it can be posted with LEGALLY obtained confirmation images. --commando552 13:15, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

If posting info from a breach of NDA is the main reason than I can understand that. Then I shall wait for the "official" information to be released.

G3A3 and UMP.45

The weapons can be seen in these videos from GameSpot in the Tokyo Game Show 2011. Though it's cam footage you can clearly see the pick-up icon of the weapons.

Someone should work their magic and add those to the page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0M7_3wENw Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsI9Vsv5wE Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOhTIaeGGY Part 3

Santos 12:59, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I can have it down in about 20 minutes. --Samael527

I would imagine that if it is cam footage it has likely not been officially release and is against copyright, so probably shouldn't have caps on here. You can get a shot of the G3A3 from the end of the guillotine trailer though. --commando552 19:05, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

I added the two weapons on the page. Since the videos were not leaked but released by a reputable game journalism/review site (Gamespot.com) it should be okay, right? If they weren't allowed to release it Gamespot wouldn't have done so. I looked around and other gaming websites are posting the footage as well [19]. I'm pretty new to IMFDB, so is the stuff I saw in the gameplay okay to post? --Samael527

Similary to E3 with IGN, PAX with NVIDIA, TGS with GameSpot definitely can be considered official source. --Masterius 05:53, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

M1911 Confirmed

http://gunclub.ea.com/us/intel/blog/battlefield3-weapon-unlock

For being an EA gunclub member you get an M1911 :P --Joey1666

Pic here: http://web-vassets.ea.com/Assets/Richmedia/Gun-Club/images/bf3-gun-unlock.jpg --Alex T Snow 17:39, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Not too sure exactly what pistol they have based this on though. It has slanted cocking serrations on the slide (rear only), non target sights, beavertail grip safety and a rounded burr hammer. Closest thing I can think of is the early version of the M-45 MEUSOC, which are a old USGI 1911 frame with a Sprinfield Armoury slide, a rounded hammer, a beavertail grip safety and Pachmayr rubber grips (along with some other less obvious improvements). --commando552 17:58, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it IS the original version of the MEU. Also, you missed the Springfield 3-hole trigger. Alex T Snow 22:24, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Gun Club? Looks like EA is messing up again: http://gunclub.ea.com/us/mygunclub/rewards

They haven't even fixed the stat tracking :S --Masterius 03:12, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Battlefield 3 Open Beta

So, EA confirmed the PC/X360/PS3 BETA startup. Begining 27.09 for those who have MoH 2010 Tier One Edition, and 29.09 for the rest. Good opportunity to test the game and get some guns updated :). ~ GumBoy 21.09.2011 16.07 (CET)

Actually, the early access is open for people with the Medal of Honor Limited Edition as well, not just Tier One. It's also for people who pre-ordered before a certain cutoff, but I can't remember the specifics. The Wierd It 09:10, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Can't wait for this, hope we get a different map this time, Operation Metro was good but not great. --Chrausis 09:37, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Caspian Border would be great :D --Masterius 11:06, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

PP2000 Spotted

Battlelog pics here: http://www.battlefieldlog.com/2011/09/battlefield-3-beta-battlelog.html

Pic here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pdUIBRNHpXo/Tn4uZQaayQI/AAAAAAAAAdw/PVmts2hVNjU/s1600/battlelog-4.jpg

What's the pistol, what's the shotgun? --Masterius 07:09, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

I believe the handgun is a Glock variant, whilst the shotgun is Benelli M3 Super 90. --RaNgeR 08:02, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

I saw the PP2000 in action at Eurogamer Expo, looked pretty good. --Chrausis 08:16, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, I never saw it before. The shotgun is the 870 MCS and the pistol is the Glock 17. If you look at the page, he's level 0 with no XP, so these are the first unlocks, which makes sense given what they are: a shotgun, a pistol that isn't faction-based that's similar to the M9 and MP443, and a PDW. Also, now that the PP2000 has a stock we won't have any more stockless guns, specifically stockless guns with scopes... Alex T Snow 18:08, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

Hmm, the magazine tube is rather short for M870 MCS. Which would mean it is rather regular variant of M870 with pistol grip and full stock. --Masterius 01:49, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

No, the MCS is modular, hence the name, it just has the 4 round tube as standard, with the 7 round one as an attachment. This is the MCS: http://www.kiesler.com/shop/ProductImages/Model870MCS_PartSLG.jpg Alex T Snow 01:57, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

The magazine tube in MCS is supposed to have the same length as the barrel as can be seen here: Remington Model 870 Modular Combat Shotgun (MCS). Thus the 3+1 MCS would have the same 10" barrel. --Masterius 02:23, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

I understand it's supposed to, but it's still an MCS, just not assembled properly or something. If you don't like it, just use the extended tube attachment, I know I will be, and Demize confirmed (how many times have I written those two words now?) all the extended mag attachments are visible, like the MP7s 40 round magazine, or this shotgun. Alex T Snow 04:50, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

If that's so... Okey, an oddly assembled MCS ¯\(°_o)/¯

P.S. I didn't count how many times you have written those two words D: --Masterius 07:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

LOL! :) Alex T Snow 08:08, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Demize confirmed that Alex says 'Demize confirmed' a lot. --Chrausis 12:00, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

XD --Masterius 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

ACR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coOHjF4_apI&feature=channel_video_title

Magpul Masada/ ACR?

At 0:36, the handguard and flashhider look very similar to that of the ACR

I think it might be the SG 553, also has a similar flashhider. --Chrausis 12:07, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Agree, it is the SG 553. Can tell by the design of the rail system, shape of the receiver and the fact that it has a smooth curve to the top of the stock rather than an adjustable cheek riser. --commando552 12:14, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

I also see the M320 Launcher at 0:41, so thats one more launcher for the page Draco122 13:09, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, what a song choice :| --Masterius 14:12, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Whine, whine, whine. No game is good enough for you people. :P - Mr. Wolf 15:41, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Not game - song >:O --Masterius 03:49, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

Yay, finally can see the M320 mounted instead of standalone :D And yeah, I agree that's the 553. Oh, and what do you mean "you people"? Lol ;) Alex T Snow 18:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry, I thought you were complaining about the game. I was just joking when I said that. *rolls eyes* - Mr. Wolf 18:44, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

NDA for Beta

OK, from what I'm hearing the Beta is going to be subject to an NDA, just like the Alpha. This may just be for the early access and may be rescinded once it goes public, or it may be for the whole thing.

What this means is that we can't post info or shots from the Beta build until it is rescinded. The Wierd It 02:02, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

Disregard. I screwed up, again. The Wierd It 02:15, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

Haha :) That's good news Alex T Snow 03:18, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

G17C modelled after G17

I just talked to a DICE dev on Steam, and he told me the reason they modelled the G17C after a regular G17 it's to save prestanda so the game can run as smoothly as possible. So that's why is missing those compesators "holes" on the slide. And the reason they decided to still call it a G17C, is because is only a minor detail. They probably have more relevant things to fix, than changing the correct name of a weapon. edit: forgot to sign Santos 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

That's understandable, given the crazy graphics and everthing else this game it running. If they don't change it we'll note it as incorrect on the main page, but note that it was intentionally left out; if they do know the correct difference between the C and standard, but needed to do for technical reasons, I'm happy. Alex T Snow 14:33, 30 September 2011 (CDT)

But someone could state in the main page, that it was left there intentionally due to some other and more important things to worry about in the development of the game. Santos 03:46, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

I guess that proves that Frostbite 2 Engine is much more complicated and difficult to mod than Refractor 2 Engine. To fix weapon's name in Battlefield 2 one needed a mere Notepad ;) --Masterius 05:57, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

I think it's stupid what the guy from DICE said: "We modeled the gun after the regular G17 so the game would run faster..." Huh? So if the gun is actually a 100% G17, why call G17C? Am I missing something here? --RaNgeR 04:10, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

Modelling the holes would require they put an inside surface on the barrel, but I can't see how an engine that features buildings falling into hundreds of pieces of high-detail rubble would be screwed over by that. Evil Tim 17:47, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

Corrected some information

I went through and fixed some things. There is a Korean M16 that has 4 firing modes and the shotgun in Op Gullotine is a Remington 870 which you can tell by looking at the rear sight. --FIVETWOSEVEN 12:23, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

It has four? Cool, didn't know that. Alex T Snow 17:41, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

@@ Line 1,426: / Line 1,426: @@
 :I think it's stupid what the guy from DICE said: "''We modeled the gun after the regular G17 so the game would run faster...''" Huh? So if the gun is actually a 100% G17, why call G17C? Am I missing something here? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 04:10, 1 October 2011 (CDT)
+::Modelling the holes ''would'' require they put an inside surface on the barrel, but I can't see how an engine that features buildings falling into hundreds of pieces of high-detail rubble would be screwed over by that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:47, 1 October 2011 (CDT)
 == Corrected some information ==