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Talk:Resident Evil: Extinction: Difference between revisions

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Because the USP45 Tactical is less accurate and probably only has a range of 25 meters as opposed to the SOCOM's 50 meters, and the other pistols you mentioned are not
The USP45 Tactical is less accurate and probably only has a range of 25 meters as opposed to the SOCOM's 50 meters, and the other pistols you mentioned are not
worthy for military combat conditions. By the Skinny White Guy ;)       
worthy for military combat conditions. By the Skinny White Guy ;)       


Revision as of 00:00, 16 August 2010

I'll take the job

No one's been bothering with this, so I've decided to take it up.

Hasn't anybody noticed the shotgun in Mikey's van? When the crows fly past his sensors, the alarm sounds, he wakes up and hits his head, then as he gets up you can clearly see a shotgun hanging on the ceiling of the van. At first I thought it was a Benelli semi-automatic but after I looked at it a few times I could see it was pump-action for sure. It has a pistol grip/rifle stock, and an extended magazine. I hope someone finds out what it is. (Gunmaster12)

What Im thinking it might be a Benelli M3 or probably a modified shotgun or something. Im like, f**king confused and its annoying me... (Demonslayer43)

Revolvers

I've seen a couple revolvers, but haven't gotten any good shots of them.

L85A1

I can't help but wonder where a cowboy driving around in the Nevada desert would come upon a British army rifle... Spartan198 12:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

Maybe, for the sake of the story, he encountered British troops in the US and took it from a dead body, or got it from a guy who happens to have it, or it was HIS and he somehow aquired it. Who knows. I mean where does Alice get the ammo for her guns anyway? How did Carlos lose his Tavor? Just try not to ask the question for the sake of asking Excalibur01 04:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Alice's ammo: Probably the same place everyone else does, from raiding small towns. Carlos' Tavor: The Tavor wasn't Carlos', it was Yuri's and he probably abandoned it in Raccoon City when he ran out of ammo. Spartan198 00:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, Yuri and Nikolai had TARs, Carlos had a Galil. Carlos also had Desert Eagles, so it seems the Israeli weapons industry armed the whole team... DKS01 15:02, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Its one thing I wondered when I first saw this article, would be fun if we could get these rifles here in the US but Britian is anti gun so they wouldn't want to help us arm ourselves. --FIVETWOSEVEN 00:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

You really wouldn't want one, I seved with one, and it jammed up on me 3 times in 2 mags - Captain Snikt

Must be the oldies, the new ones worked fine. Only ever had 1 jam. But, I agree you wouldn't want one, stick to your M4 and M16. But, back to the topic of how an L85 can end up in Yanke land - a company (Prexis?) sells something called the PR85a1 in parts of the USA. It looks like an A1, but isn't. It only works in semi-automatic. Effectivly, it is an L98A2 cadet rifle, but with the externals of an L85A1 (the A2, made by HK in 2009, is capable of semi-automatic, unlike the bolt action A1 cadet rifle). From what I've been told, its almost impossible to mod it to fire on fully auto or bust. It costs quite a bit too, a few grand (£).

Late to this convo, but the question came to my mind too. I mean yeah, the characters are carrying whatever they happened to loot/come across, and I accept that, but still, the odds of coming across an L85 in the US rather than a weapon actually used by some branch of the US military/law enforcement, or even a weapon that's reasonably easy to acquire by civilians in the US has GOT to be slim. Realistically, as far as assault rifles go, an M4, or M16, or a G36, or even an AUG(which is at least used by Customs) would be a lot more likely to be found laying around waiting to be looted than an L85. Then again, "realism" and "Resident Evil movie" should probably never be brought up in the same topic anyways, so I suppose the point is moot. DKS01 14:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Rule of cool my friend, rule of cool. That and its so...'exotic'. You barely see them in films set in the UK, or with UK forces (because - how many are there?) so to see one in the US makes it extra special. Then again - perhaps he owns it - as the above guy said, a company in the USA does sell a semi-automatic L85 clone.
Ok, I want to know which company is that? Cause I kinda like the L85 rifle, though I like the AUG more. Excalibur01 02:39, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, the guy said the one sold in the US is "almost impossible to mod it to fire on fully auto" too, so still, the cowboy just happens to be/find one of the what, 100 people in the US who had one of those rifles(the company that makes them is indeed Prexis, it's called the PL-85, and it costs $2900 on their website) AND happens to also able to convert it/find one already converted to full auto? Seems you'd be more likely to find some Modern Warfare kid who was machining his own AKs in his mom's basement than find a PL-85. So yeah, I'd say rule of cool indeed wins out. Oh well, it's always fun to find off the wall firearm choices in movies, regardless of whether or not the weapon realistically would be the one used. DKS01 04:48, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Took out the crossbow

The reason why I took out the crossbow is for obvious reasons, it's NOT a firearm in any sense of the word. Excalibur01 03:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC) It launches a projectile, though.-protoAuthor

Lots of articles on this site (The Punisher, the Rambo series) feature bows and other weapons that are not technically firearms. The rule of thumb seems to be if a mechanically powered projectile weapon appears in a film with lots of actual firearms, said weapon can be either included or omitted at the discretion of the author.


Unknown Revolver

Chase (Linden Ashby) uses an unknown revolver to kill a zombie on the Eiffel Tower.

I'm pretty sure that it was a Colt 1873 SAA or something similar.
It was double action I believe. It is seen for only a split section, so I couldn't ID it myself when I watched it on TV recently. - Gunmaster45
Looked like a schofield style revolver, probably 7.5" barrel. If you watch closely he appears to cock it for each shot. Look carefully when hes on the tower and fighting off the zombie, he reaches for a blued revolver with a wood handle that looks a lot like a russian or beretta laramie schofield revolver. Just my 2cents
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Mossberg 464

[moved from main page] --AdAstra2009 00:07, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

did anyone else notice she was loading it with what looked like 45ACP ammo?? -Could be chambered in the similar 45LC, Winchester 94's come in that caliber too.

Revolver

What revolver is this insane survivor using ?

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An insane survivor holds Alice's LDA, the other one has a revolver.

K-Mart used the Winchester

Hey how come the character K-Mart (Spencer Locke) hasn't got a page? In this movie (Resident Evil: Extinction), she uses the Winchester Model 1300 12Gauge but it isn't mentioned. It happened during the Super-Undead Zombie attack, zombies come out of the container, she runs away, gets into the truck with L.J., thena zombie comes and tries to get in. She gets the shotgun, yells at L.J. "Get down!", pumps the weapon, thenshoots the zombie in the head. She deserves the recognition for it. After all, the character is supposed to be 14 years old.

Carlos's handguns

Didnt Carlos use Dual Desert Eagles in Apocolypes? But i guess being 5 years since the movies have gone by hes gotten new ones... wierd... (Demonslayer43)

I think he should have kept the IMI Desert Eagles .50AEs. They beat HK USP 9mms any day....:( --Gunmaster12 13:49, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Only when your out of 9mm.--FIVETWOSEVEN 17:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

FiveTwoSeven is right on the money. Desert Eagles might beat 9mm if you're hunting rhinos or grizzly bears or something, but otherwise, they're a bulky, heavy, oversized gun firing unnecessarily big bullets. Hate to tell you man, but the real world doesn't work like Call of Duty, there's NO real world military or police force that carries the DE, while there are tons carrying 9mm pistols. And there's a reason for that. DKS01 02:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


The Desert Eagle may be over-powered, but the 9mm is definatly under-powered. You could hit an enemy 4-5 times and not take them out, but with the Desert Eagle you only need 1 shot. And please don't tell me your a "9mm all the way", because there are more calibres that are better than the 9mm than there are worse, by far. (.41AE, 10mm Auto, 9x21mmIMI, and of course .45 ACP, plus all the magnums .357 and .44 are better by my books.)And no, i don't think the world works like COD4, because i have found more mistakes with the firearms than you could ever imagine. Ditto for MW2. I wish i had had a say in the making of the games, i would have changed a lot. sorry if i caused offence.--Gunmaster12 04:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I take it that you come from video games and know little about real guns. 9mm is perfectly fine for anything related to personal defence. One very well known writer that also lives in my home state New Hampshire, Massod Ayoob, is a retired police officer. He is VERY experianced with guns and in fact "gunfighting" aswell. He has actually been in real gun fights. He writes alot about gun fights where someone had to draw their weapon. He is by definition a true expert on guns. He packs a 9mm daily. Would he if it took several rounds to do what one round of .45 could do? No he wouldn't. There has been one account of someone that was shot 4 times with a .45 and walked out of the hospital a few hours later and many other accounts where someone was shot once with a 9mm and was dead before he hit the ground. One gun high as a kite on meth was shot 6 times with a .41 magnum and kept fighting and took getting run over the the LEO's partner with the cruiser and he was still trying to fight even with the vehicle over him .41 AE is a near obsolete round, 9x21 is extremely uncommon, and 10mm is uncommon to a point. The desert eagle is NOT a fighting handgun, way to big and unwieldy. Also putting trust into a large round to stop someone kinda says that you don't trust your self to hit him somewhere vital and you hope that he drops dead. Getting hit once with a .50 AE doesn't garentee a one shot stop. --FIVETWOSEVEN 04:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Everything the above guy said is dead on the money. And anyway Gunmaster, if the DE is so much better than a 9mm handgun, I'll reiterate-why do NO military or law enforcement agencies in the world carry them, yet many still carry 9mm weapons? Even units who have the freedom to choose their own sidearms do not carry Desert Eagles, why do you think that is? Sure, you can argue that 9mm isn't the best round in the world and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that a 9mm handgun is STILL better for combat use than a DE, unless your definition of "combat" includes shootouts with elephants or something. DKS01 08:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


Okay for starters don't get worked up, I'm not trying to start a 9mm/other calibres war..... And no, I didn't get anything know about guns from video games. I have just always had an interest in firearms for the last 8 years of my life, since age 8 all the while I've simply been gathering information through good old books. I can promise you that you'd be surprised. No shit, you ask me a question about any weapons specifications I can answer it. Without Google. Now, the 9x19mm Luger Parabellum round has many advantages, such as ammunition capacity, but it is seriously lacking in power, fair and square. But as a military calibre, things such as capacity may be an issue. Take the Colt M1911 .45 ACP (11.43x23mm) pistol. The .45 round is the optimal military calibre in terms of power, but that particular weapon takes only 7 rounds. Most weapons in that calibre can't take high amounts of ammunition, and at the time of the XM9 handgun trials Beretta and SIG-Sauer took the spotlight, ruining the chances of weapons like the Spanish Star "Megastar" .45ACP, and the HK MK 23 MOD 0 SOCOM .45ACP. Those ones can take 12 rounds of ammunition. And my definition of combat includes circumstances that can never be forseen. Thus you must always be prepared. If I was put on the battlefield with one handgun of my choice it would definatly and without a doubt be a Hecklar & Koch Mark 23 Model 0 .45.Comparativly puny Glock 17s, Berreta M92-SB-Fs, and USP-9s wouldn't come close. But don't get me wrong, 9mms have their time and place. It can sometimes come down to personal preference; mine just doesn't run to the 9mm Parabellum round. One more thing, my views on the 9mm are much different when your talking sub-machine guns. I would never diss the HK MP5, it's variants, the IMI Uzi, it's variants, and definatly not the Steyr AUG Para SMG. About the Desert Eagle not being in service anywhere, it's obvious the NATO countries would look to their own country's weapons before adopting an Israeli weapon, and after the Glock started getting used by "over 65% of the world's military and police forces" as they claim, Israel decided to as well. Anyway I respect your argument but I hope you can also respect mine --Gunmaster12 15:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Isreal wasn't using the Desert Eagle BEFORE they adopted the Glock. People don't carry it because it's NOT A COMBAT HANDGUN. DKS01 21:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Seeing how you like the MK23 it definatly shows where you come from. If you were to hang around a non HK-biased gun board like TheHighRoad.org, you would know that its a huge over priced pistol. The Desert Eagle is FAR FROM A COMBAT PISTOL PERIOD. Not even the country that made it issues it. <-------- Read that. Judging by your weapon choices I see that you come from Rainbow 6 Vegas, not real life. Although FMJ 9mm isn't the best I know that but when you can have hollow points its perfectly fine. If I were to fight in a official Military force I would carry either a SIG Sauer P220, FNP 45 or I would still pack my 9mm Hi Power. The MK23 is one of the SOCOM issue weapons yet it is rarely carried, why you may ask? Because its do big and unwieldy. The Navy SEALs have choosen the 9mm P226 over a .40 or a .45 because its shot placement. By the time you lug your MK23 or Desert Eagle out of the holster I would have already draw and double tapped you with my Hi Power.--FIVETWOSEVEN 16:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


Okay, let's get something straight. I DO NOT GET MY WEAPON KNOWLAGE OR PREFERENCES FROM VIDEO GAMES. I've never played rainbow 6. i will say this though, good on you for your choice of the SIG-Sauer, best quality gun brand i think. I'm not HK-biased, i just know that in a firefight between a 12 round .45 MK 23 and say as you said a 13 round 9mm Browning, the Mk 23 owner would have the edge. And about the SIG having better shot placement...you can get the P220 in .45, .357SIG, and .40 S&W...all of these would be better than the 9mm version except for capacity. And just one more thing.....have you ever fired a full size assault rifle in real life, not COD4? Just curious--Gunmaster12 18:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

You know the people the Mk 23 was designed for don't use it, right? If it was such an awesome gun, why do even THEY not carry it? DKS01 21:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Full size assault rifle? I didn't know there were small and mediun sizes. I haven't fired a full auto assault rifle yet but I've fired plenty of AR-15s and AK 47s a M1A, I even got a AR 15 of my own. The only full auto I've fired was a M60 when I was young. The SIG P220 only comes in .45 now, never was in .357 SIG or .40 S&W. Only 9mm, 7.62 parabellum, .38 super, and .45 ACP. How does a MK23 owner have the edge? The thing is too big and unwieldy, can't conceal carry it at all and would be slow to draw from a holster. Only has a larger round but only counts if you can actually shoot faster than your opponent. Another story I have is one cop had to draw and shoot someone drawing his gun, the cop fired and hit him with his .45 faster than the criminals 9mm yet the criminal still was able to complete the draw and shot and killed the cop then ran off and died later. Let me say again that the people this pistol is aimed at and issued by choice don't even like the MK23, the people that HAVE to use their weapons on a regular basis don't like it and they have experiance. Why do you want to carry it when you have no experiance? You obviously do get your preferances from video games because how else would you get your preferance of te MK23? Either that or you watch too many movies. What have you shot exactly and what do you own?--FIVETWOSEVEN 18:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I have to back the little guy here, this isnt even about resident evil any more its just the pair of you dick measuring. I have no problem with 9mm but i love the Mk23, granted im a bigger guy and dont feel its 'too much gun' for me. I have no problems pulling and firing it at decent speed and accuracy, but remember its not about draw speed this isnt the wild west. Pistols are sidearms now, you wanna draw fast and double tap then take a colt SAA. If the kid prefers the Mk23 then dont just say its down to video games, the only game i know of where the MK23 is available is metal gear solid, and thats wank anyway. Personal preference is just that. Its down to the individual. Tho to remain un biased the desert eagle is in no way a combat pistol. --Captain Snikt 00:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The Mk 23 has been available in every Rainbow Six game since RS3(and maybe earlier, I forget), and a "high tech" version(where the laser pointer is also capable of shutting down lights and electronics at a distance) of the Mk 23 is Sam Fisher's sidearm in the Splinter Cell games. It's also been used in the SOCOM game series, which I suppose is an appropriate place for it. These are all pretty popular, big name shooter games. DKS01 13:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Double tapping with a SAA, thats a new one. I'm 6'4 but theres a point when a gun is too big. Where else would someone get a preferance for a gun when he hasn't most likely held or fired one? Definatly not through reading up on a gun board about it where those experianced with fire arms reside. I have no problem with shooting a .45 but I prefer my 9mm because of how slim it is and the cost of ammo is much less. Theres a difference in preference and picking something with research, and without it.--FIVETWOSEVEN 01:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Yet again bub, personal preference, too big for you might be a good fit for someone else --86.166.15.114 02:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll agree about preference, but remember it STARTED with him saying Carlos shoulda kept the Desert Eagles over a 9mm, with both FiveTwoSeven and myself disagreeing with him. It seems to me his bringing up other calibers(we didn't initiate that discussion) was him (successfully) trying to direct the conversation away from the original argument, that being the fact that the DE is not a combat handgun(which you agreed with as well), and would not and is not carried by any combat professional(which Carlos is supposed to be). DKS01 13:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

If he owns a MK23 than he can do as he wants and I don't care. If hes just read about it, watched it in movies, or used it in a video game than his decision is stupid. I have used many different kinds of guns and have decided on a 9mm Hi Power. My decision was through experiance, not armchair-commandoing.--FIVETWOSEVEN 03:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Hey, Im british, ill never knock the hi power - Captain Snikt

I agree, the Desert Eagle is NOT a combat handgun, it's large, heavy, loud, very expensive, and not very reliable, but it has two pros: stopping-power and accuracy. The .50AE, 44 Magnum, and 357 Magnum almost guarantees a one-shot kill. In media, the only thing I've seen the Desert Eagle's ballistic damage realistically portrayed in so far is L4D2. Ballistic damage wise, it is the most realistic weapon in the game. I fully believe that the Desert Eagle in real life is capable of blowing off limbs and bursting heads like melons (in fact, even the 7.62X39mm round is known in real life to cause heads to explode!). Not that I'm praising it, I sill think it's not a good combat pistol, although it could be a very effective weapon in the right hands.

The MK23 SOCOM on the other hand, IS a combat handgun. Yes, the Navy Seals dislike it because it's large and heavy but I think it makes up for this with it's durability, reliability, accuracy, controllably, and it's 12 round magazine. I think that the pros far outweigh the "cons", how many other ,45 ACP handguns (besides maybe the SIG P220) can get 2 inch groupings at 50 meters right out of the box. Its long 5.9 inch, O-ring equipped barrel combined with it's recoil-reduction buffer (which keeps the muzzle-flip very minimal) is the reason why it's so accurate. I think the Special Forces need to suck it up, because size and weight shouldn't be an issue(unless excessive like the Desert Eagle) when it comes to a highly effective combat pistol. True, I've never held a SOCOM pistol but I doubt it's not nearly as "big a deal" as the Desert Eagle, which fits my hand just fine, and I'm just a skinny white guy that's 6 feet tall and weighs less than 180 lbs!

I'm 6'4 and 150lbs. While the MK23 may be a combat handgun, doesn't mean that its the best or good. Its a sidearm, not a main arm so why would you really want 2" groupings at 50 yards, that range you should be using your main arm. The closet I've come to a MK23 was a airsoft gun and its huge, there is no need for a SIDEARM to be that big. If the experts don't like it, than why do you?--FIVETWOSEVEN 19:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


Because it's a great sidearm. Size and weight IS not a factor to me when it comes to superb practicality. As I mentioned before, it is very durable, reliable, accurate, and controllable (because of its recoil-reduction buffer which keeps the muzzle-flip down which means it stays on target better). I also forgot to mention that it's also corrosion-resistant and can take P+ armor-piercing rounds. Whats wrong with a pistol that can hit a Tango through the eye at 50 meters with a suppressor. Isn't it better for a weapon to exceed expectations than to just conform to them? I've known this stuff about the MK23 since I was 12, and I'm 20 now. Yes it may not the best handgun EVER MADE and you may not like it, but you still can't deny that it's a great handgun.


If FiveTwoSeven would think back to the beginning of the conversation you will see that I never actually SAID that the IMI Desert Eagle was a combat handgun. You keep saying "it's not a combat handgun, it's not a combat handgun" but honestly I don't know why the hell you believe that's what I think.O_o Beats me where you got that from. And about the MK23's weight, no-one else seems to be complaining. You obviously think that the 9mm is best, well, i'm not going to destroy your delusions, it's your loss. In reference to a previous comment, by "full-size assault rifle" i mean not a "Short Assaut Rifle", or SAR. Plenty of them exist. For example the Micro Galil, Colt Commando, and AK 74U. And yes, i have shot a full=size assault rifle. I'm in the Army Cadets and havefired the Steyr F88 AUG 5.56x45mm, both with blanks and live ammunition. And thank you to all the people on my side of the argument, good to see some people have the right idea.--Gunmaster12 08:57, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Is that all the experiance you have with actually shooting guns? Thats not enough to claim something is better. Why do you think the MK 23 is so good when the professionals hate it? Even though I dislike H&K, I wouldn't care if you liked the USP 45. --FIVETWOSEVEN 14:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have got to agree with Gunmaster 12. I own both a Browning 9mm and a MK23 and the MK23 is better by far. Sure it's heavier but I get way more accuracy with it than the Browning. Not to say that the Browning is not a good weapon.

Sign your posts. I disregard posts by anoms. --FIVETWOSEVEN 14:23, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Just pointing out: That wasn't GM's original argument. He stated that the Desert Eagle was better than the USP. This eventually developed into whether the MK.23 or Browning Hi-Power were better.

Wasn't specific to the Hi Power, it was more of 9mm vs. 45acp at that point. How is firing a short assault rifle different or give you less experiance than a full size? It turned into a argument like that because I was defending the 9mm, its delusional to think that its weak.--FIVETWOSEVEN 14:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The 9mm is not weak in itself, just compared to the .45 Auto. Thats the reason i said that the MK23 is better than the Browning because it has greater power to capacity RATIO. Add the superb accuracy and i think that it it better. Firing a Short Assault Rifle doesn't give you more experience, nor was that my point. I didn't say that i had more experience than FiveTwoSeven because of that difference. I guess i just made that classification because the original conversation was about handguns.--Gunmaster12 14:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

To FiveTwoSeven:thats fair enough i will sign this post, i just don't have an account--120.152.97.51 14:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

http://intrencik.com/357sig_files/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg While .45acp is better to shoot someone with, it doesn't seem that much better. The biggest thing that gets me about this caliber war is the fact that alot of people believe that .45acp is the end all, instant-death-ray-gun. One thing that bothers me is your choice of gun. There are many other .45s that are better and hold more. The USP 45 holds the same but is more manageable with its smaller size. The Glock 21 holds 13 rounds of .45, the Springfield XD holds 13, and my favorite out of the high cap .45s, the FNH FNP 45. Holds 14 rounds of .45acp. --FIVETWOSEVEN 15:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


The USP45 Tactical is less accurate and probably only has a range of 25 meters as opposed to the SOCOM's 50 meters, and the other pistols you mentioned are not worthy for military combat conditions. By the Skinny White Guy ;)


Better? For accuracy? Not even close. Those pistols that hold more, we're talking 1-2 rounds difference. It doesn't make them better.You put one in the chamber plusa full mag that's 13rds. And again it's personal preference. I happen to like the look of the MK23 better than others. No, I don't think that the .45ACP is a "end all, instant-death-ray-gun" But if you have two guys, and one gets hit by 9mm, the other gets hit with a .45, both at the same distance, same barrel length, same rifling, hell, same weapon frame, there is MORE chance that the .45 will take him out first shot. --Gunmaster12 15:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks < Function. There are many people that own SIGs or any other good looking pistol yet carry a Glock. I personally find the MK23 ugly because of its large trigger guard. Plus it depends on who the better shot is more than capacity, gun, or cartridge. --FIVETWOSEVEN 16:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

My take on the issue: it more personal preference than anything. Sure, the .45 may be slightly more powerful than the 9, but there is not a man alive who wants to be shot with either of them. 99% of it is determined by how well the shot is placed, and the skill of the shooter. A hit to the heart by either of them is effective. But, there is no handgun on Earth you can absolutely gaurantee will kill someone with one shot. I am a fan of a .45, but in skilled hands, either one is lethal. -SasquatchJim

Well said --FIVETWOSEVEN 19:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

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