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Talk:Public Enemies: Difference between revisions
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[[Image:Pe-last-c03a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Some of the ''real'' Dillinger's possessions after he was shot in Chicago include a straw hat, a watch, a cigar, and a [[Colt Model 1903/1908|Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless]] chambered in .380 ACP.]] | [[Image:Pe-last-c03a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Some of the ''real'' Dillinger's possessions after he was shot in Chicago include a straw hat, a watch, a cigar, and a [[Colt Model 1903/1908|Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless]] chambered in .380 ACP.]] | ||
[[Image:Pe-ct-barker1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Part of the Barker-Karpis Gang's arsenal, as seen on the DVD featurette "Criminal Technology". Alvin Karpis is featured in the film played by [[Giovanni Ribisi]] as a friend and associate of Dillinger's.]] | [[Image:Pe-ct-barker1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Part of the Barker-Karpis Gang's arsenal, as seen on the DVD featurette "Criminal Technology". Alvin Karpis is featured in the film played by [[Giovanni Ribisi]] as a friend and associate of Dillinger's.]] | ||
:That's pretty cool. Could someone identify all these guns? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Charles Winstead == | == Charles Winstead == | ||
Revision as of 23:29, 9 April 2010
Firearms in "Public Enemies" Trailer
The "unidentified rifle" is actually the Remington Model 8 autoloader. Another semiauto rifle appears in the very last screenshot under the Thompson SMG section. While the bank robber in the foreground has a Thompson, the guy in the background is armed with what appears to be a Winchester Model 1907. Look closely at how the guy is holding the weapon at the trigger guard, it's obvious there's no pistol grip there and it's actually a stocked rifle. This particular rifle is modified with a vertical foregrip so at first glance it does appear to be a Thompson. These rifles were used by the Dillinger gang and can be seen in this photo of confiscated weapons: http://www.auto-ordnance.com/AO-3F3.html In the photo, a Winchester modified with a muzzle brake is right next to the Thompson. I also think I saw a Remington Model 11 autoloading shotgun in the trailer. It was in the hands of the FBI agent who bursts into Dillinger's room and knocks him down.--Phillb36 22:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Phillb36 - you are absolutely correct that the rifle in the backround is a Winchester 1907 - you can clearly see the distinctive 10-round magazine - good call! This should be a heck of a good movie.
Can't Wait To See This
I'm glad Michael Mann is back to making gun heavy movies (and ones that don't suck like Miami Vice...) and hope this has the same aspects as Heat. Prohibition is a great time for films to cover. - Gunmaster45
- Yeah, I'm really excited about this one myself. The trailer alone was really cool. -MT2008
- I read the script a few months ago and it looks pretty good. Although not 100% accurate, it does a really good job telling the true story of Dillinger and I think it'd be a great return to form for Mann, I'm really pumped for it. -Speakeasy804
Nyles here, didn't bother logging in. Man At Arms For The Gun Collector has an interesting article in the current issue that claims Dillinger carried a Super 38, not a .45 Government Model, and that the infamous machine pistols were also .38 Supers.
- Dillinger carried .38 Supers, but we won't simply claim that on the page as one anonymous user kept doing (with poor grammer/spelling) because we don't actually know that they didn't just use .45s. Since Steve took photos of some of the guns used in this movie (note the M1911A1 from the film in the picture is in .45 ACP), he'd likely know if any of the guns were in .38 Super. Just assuming isn't good gun identification. Also, I think Purvis favored the .38 Super as well, but I may be wrong on that. As for the revolvers used in the movie, wait till the DVD comes out before we ID those, we can't play that as well by memory. - Gunmaster45
What was the shoulder rig Depp used??
---
I picked up a copy of the 2-Disc Special Edition the other day and sat down to watch it. The two-disc offered "extras" of behind the scenes stuff, which with my experience with Michael Mann's movies HEAT and Miami Vice (2006) proved to be almost more enjoyable than the movie itself. The inner dynamics that Mann brings to his productions is so interesting, and makes the production end result better, IMHO. Unlike the other two, there was no gun-training filmed, other than a photo shot of Johnny Depp taking aim on the range with a Thompson. Apparently, Depp really got into the role, Mann said he was intrigued by the Thompson, and scene of him field-stripping the Thompson bore that out. Stephen Dorff's observation of carrying the heavy B.A.R. was amusing however. I also want to thank you for the scenes of the "Machine Pistol" broken down in sequence. I got lost in the whole Little Bohemia firefight, the car scene went by so fast and all I saw was muzzle flash, no details of the scene. A good dose of reality? Another thing I like about Mann's productions, the intensity of the gun fights. - BC2009 December 19 2009.
Colt Terminology
There's some incorrect terminology used in this (and, technically, many other) articles in the site, but on this one it's really noticable. M1911 and M1911A1 only refers to pistols made for the US military - pistols made for the civilian market, with or without the A1 modifications, were called the 1911 Government Model. Now, that's a nitpicky point, since they're commonly refered to as 1911s today, and you usually have to see the markings to know the difference (though by the same token that's like calling every Beretta 92 an M9).
But what makes it glaring here is calling a .38 Super an M1911A1. It's not the same gun - not only was it not a military-issue pistol (the US military, since it's introduction in 1932, has acquired a grand total of 2 .38 Supers, depending on if you count a few hundred for the OSS), Colt didn't even consider it the same as a Government Model. It was sold as the Super 38, and that IS the commonly accepted term for it. Seems to me if we know it's a .38 Super, then we should be calling it a Super 38.
- Visit the M1911 pistol series page for an explaination on why we call them M1911A1s, regardless. - Gunmaster45
- I agree that it's pointless to try and differentiate M1911s from commerical 1911s (though I'd rather see them just called 1911s instead of M1911s), but a Super 38 isn't an M1911A1 OR a Government Model, it's a Super 38. I'm not saying it needs it's own page but it ought to have it's own heading on the 1911 page. Although it's kinda of a moot point, looking at the prop I see it's a 1960s era gun that they slapped some (incorrect) double diamond grips on, and by then production of .38 Supers actually had merged with the .45s.
- Visit the M1911 pistol series page for an explaination on why we call them M1911A1s, regardless. - Gunmaster45
Nyles: What you are say is correct in a way. The sales staff at Colt still called it a 1911 Government Model even though the pistol had the 1911A1 modifications to it. So to everyone out there that sees it it's a 1911A1 even the Colt Model 1927 pistols so to Brazil. The .38 Super like the .22 Ace is still based on the 1911A1 Government Model frame as only the top end is different. There is no point to make a sepparate page for the .38 Super variation. I know it's good to point this out but I agree was Gunmaster45 that it should stay the same. -Phoenixent 23:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
- I'm nor saying that we should make a seperate page, I say that quite clearly up there. Just that you shouldn't call a Super 38 an M1911. We differentiate between a 1911A1 and a Series 70, when the only difference is the barrel, a gun marketed under a different name, in a different caliber, using a different system for headspacing, should also be differentiated.
Also, the Model 1927 wasn't made for Brazil, it was for and in Argentina. Brazil used the S&W M1937, which was an updated M1917 revolver.
- I wouldn't be totally opposed to making a separate entry on the 1911 page for the 38 Super. Only question is, do we know of any other movies besides Public Enemies that have used one? If not, then it seems just a tad pointless. -MT2008
- The only .38 Super used in the movie was the machine pistol and it was changed to 9mm so what is the problem. You are shoveling .... on this the 1911 is the original configuration, the 1911A1 is a 1911 with governmernt changes, the series 70 has changes and the series 80 has changes. Each weapon had the designation changed either offically or unoffically to acknowledge the changes so what is the problem on this. Is the 38 super a completely different weapon the the 1911A1? The answer is no as you are talking about 7 parts in the top end and the frames and lower parts are all the same. I agree with MT2008 that it would be pointless to make a separate entry for it just not the differance. This is a listing of 1911 style handguns used in film not a Colt Automatic Pistol website with all change and part variations. The handguns used in the film are 1911A1 pre-war commercial pistols in .45 used to represent Dillingers .38 Super pistols. The machine pistol shoild have a separate entry as it might show up in another movie.-Phoenixent 09:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
1901 shotgun
Why would a lever gn need to be converted to fire blanks? I thought maually operated guns could cycle blanks anyway?
- Nope. Shoot, chamber a new round. Lever, pump, and bolt actions dont need to be blank converted, only automatics. -The Winchester
- To be honest, I'm actually not 100% sure about this (I'll have to ask again). But as best I know, manually-operated guns are still internally plugged in many cases for safety reasons. -MT2008
Public Enemies film firearms
What happened to all the photos of the screen used firearms in this movie?--AdAstra2009 20:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
- I had to take them down because certain parties got upset and I feared there might be legal consequences. I can't really say much more than that. It is a shame, because they were awesome pictures, but I do have to take precautions. -MT2008 22:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's unfortunate, were the parties that got upset the ones who sent the images? --AdAstra2009 00:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't see the problem. We are just displaying pictures. We're not asking for a price or selling anything. I can never see how photos of certain things be a problem with copyright issues. Is there a way to ask the parties that own the photos to allow us to display them again? Excalibur01 21:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
The soap gun
Wasn't this photo of the scene at the Crown Point jail and Dillinger was using a fake gun made out of soap or wood to threaten guards? Cause this was in the 1911 section
I think the real one was made out if wood look like a Colt Detective Special
Machine Pistol
Can someone show me what a Colt.38 super looks like up close? I need help as the prop gun made by ISS pic was removed.
- I'm not sure, but here's a drawing of it. It kinda looks weird to me.
This is what a machine pistol coverted version of the M1911A1 might look like.
Hope this helps!! - Kenny99 03:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/AO-3F3. html
that has a picture of Dillinger's actual guns.
'colt 38 super' really means 'colt 1911 chambered in 38 super' Externally a gun chambered in 38 super will look like the same model in 45acp. Dillinger's gun is a semicustom gun. Dillinger had a longer barrel added, had an extended magazine, and had the front pistolgrip of a thompson SMG added.
Tell your propmaker to copy the standard 'government' 1911, make a fake extended magazine, make a fake barrel poking out 2 inchs beyond the frame of the gun, and attach a thompson forend pistolgrip. You should be able to collect pictures of the specific parts and he should be able to cobble it together
Purvis' Rifle
Nice thought with the Mannlicher-Schonauer (in fact that probably would have been more appropriate), but the rifle is definately a Mauser. The Mannlicher-Schonauer had the standard Mannlicher split-bridge receiver, whereas that has a solid Mauser action with the bolt handle behind the receiver bridge. The flat "butterknife" bolt handle was a popular feature on German sporting rifles in the early 20th century, and can still be found.
EDIT: This is Nyles by the way. My Afghan net isn't letting me log in today.
Also, I'm pretty sure that after the jail break scene in the beginning, when they hole up at the whorehouse, you see Dillingers right hand man with a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer tucked into his waistband. It's kind of hard to tell on the pirated copy I bought at the KAF market.
- I don't know what caliber the Mauser's in, but it's huge. The rounds on his belt are very big, and so is the bore diameter. Plus, I was wrong, that shell isn't big because of motion blur, it's just really big. - Gunmaster45
- Well, with that style of rifle you can pretty much guarantee it's going to be in an obsolete metric caliber that was never popular in the states. My money is on 9.3 x 62mm Mauser. - Nyles
- I don't know what caliber the Mauser's in, but it's huge. The rounds on his belt are very big, and so is the bore diameter. Plus, I was wrong, that shell isn't big because of motion blur, it's just really big. - Gunmaster45
for double set triggers. do you have to use both triggers to fire, or you can use one if you don't have time to set the first trigger? Rex095
Screencaps
Anybody know how to take screencaps on VLC media player? It's the only DVD player I have on my computer and it won't take the screencaps properly. I'm wondering if anybody knows how to do it.
- There is a screencap button on the toolbar. Are you having trouble finding the pics after you take them? You need to go to Tools, then Preferences at the bottom. Click video that is where you set up the directory where the pics go. Also change the pic type to jpeg, png's take up too much room. You can also change the pic name too. For Public Enemies you change the prefix to PE-. Hope that helps.--Predator20 03:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, that helped a lot.
- Also sign your posts by clicking the signature button on the edit bar.--Oliveira 01:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Moved From Main Page - Dillinger's actual weapons
This is a collection of firearms that were captured from the real Dillinger gang. As you can see the makers of the movie put a lot of these weapons into the movie. Included with the weapons is Dillinger's death mask and the hat he wore when he was killed. Above the hat is the clothes he was wearing when he died including his sunglasses and the cigar he had.
- That's pretty cool. Could someone identify all these guns? -Gunman69 23:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Charles Winstead
I found a very interesting document online handwritten by Charles Winstead (the FBI agent played by Stephen Lang in the film who fatally shot Dillinger in 1934) documenting all of his personal firearms. Although the Winchester 10-gauge shown in the film isn't among the inventory, it is still interesting to see what he actually carried. The link is here: [1]. In case the list can't be read clearly, it states that Winstead owned:
![[1]](http://historicalgmen.squarespace.com/storage/winsteadguns.JPG){kind=link}
- a "silver-plated" Smith & Wesson .38 Special with an engraved frame
- a "Colt .45 automatic" silver-plated Army model with "stag handles"
- two "blue steel" Colt .45 single-action Frontier Model revolvers, one with stag grips, the other with ivory grips
- a .38 WCF Colt Bisley nickel-plated single-action revolver with rubber handles
- a .44-caliber single-shot derringer made by Southern
- a Winchester auto-loading .351 rifle with a rear Lyman peep sight, most likely a Winchester Model 1907
- Speakeasy804 22:17, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Now that is one great website. Thanks for the link. --Jcordell 05:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)