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Talk:FAMAS: Difference between revisions
(→FAMAS Valorise/Felin barrel rifling twist?: new section) |
Pyr0m4n14c (talk | contribs) (→Additional Images: Found this lying around. And I'm not sure about the significance of the smooth-barreled versions; maybe a replacement later on when they switched from rifle grenades to UBGLs?) |
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=Additional Images= | =Additional Images= | ||
[[File:MAS 223 and bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MAS .223, the civilian variant of the FAMAS F1, with bayonet - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | [[File:MAS 223 and bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MAS .223, the civilian variant of the FAMAS F1, with bayonet - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
[[ | [[File:FAMAS-G2 family.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS G2 family - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS G2 with bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 with bayonet affixed - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | [[File:FAMAS G2 with bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 with bayonet affixed - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS G2 rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | [[File:FAMAS G2 rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 with smooth barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
[[File:Unique F11 rifle left.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Unique Model F-11 - .22 LR]] | [[File:Unique F11 rifle left.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Unique Model F-11 - .22 LR]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS Felin.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS FÉLIN prototype as demonstrated in 2006. Note straight bipod legs, the front grip, and G2 magazine well.]] | [[File:FAMAS Felin.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS FÉLIN prototype as demonstrated in 2006 - 5.56x45mm NATO. Note straight bipod legs, the front grip, and G2 magazine well.]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|500px|FA-MAS 54B prototype - 7.62x51mm NATO]] | [[File:FAMAS PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|500px|FA-MAS 54B prototype - 7.62x51mm NATO]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS PGMP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS with PGMP rail mount system - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | [[File:FAMAS PGMP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS with PGMP rail mount system and smooth barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
[[File:FAMAS F1 M203PI.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS F1 with underslung [[RM Equipment M203PI]] - 5.56x45mm & | [[File:FAMAS F1 M203PI.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS F1 with underslung [[RM Equipment M203PI]] - 5.56x45mm NATO & 40x46mm]] | ||
[[File:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS Valorisé (early variant) with scope and extended bipod - 5.56x45mm NATO]] | |||
==Airsoft Variants== | ==Airsoft Variants== | ||
[[File:FAMAS F1 M203 AEG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS F1 with M203 grenade launcher - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO & | [[File:FAMAS F1 M203 AEG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS F1 with M203 grenade launcher - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO & 40x46mm]] | ||
[[File:TM FAMAS SV.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS SV (Tokyo Marui AEG version of the G1) - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO]] | [[File:TM FAMAS SV.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS SV (Tokyo Marui AEG version of the G1) - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO]] | ||
Revision as of 19:02, 2 May 2022
Additional Images
Airsoft Variants
Discussion
Does anyone know if any other countries use the FAMAS besides France?--Mpe2010 13:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Users That should have them. --74.177.135.205 14:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
- According to Wikipedia, the Republic of Djibouti, Gabon, special forces groups in Indonesia, the Republic of Senegal, the United Arab Emirates, Lebanon, and the Philippine Special Forces use the FAMAS.--ThePotShot 14:31, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Which makes sense since they are all former french colonial possessions.
- For more FYI, Indonesia, the Philippines and UAE aren't French colonies. They just bought them (mostly) for spec ops use. I know the Special Action Force and Kopassus use them as one of their main ARs. Ominae 14:54, 4 March 2012 (CST)
Hmmm. The picture of the FAMAS G2 on this page is actually of a G1 which is the intermediate model between the F1 and G2. The G1 has the older F1 magazine-well and uses the old F1 magazines, wheres the the G2 has a fuller magazine-well and can only accept NATO STANAG magazines. Check here http://world.guns.ru/assault/as21-e.htm
On a side note, the FAMAS in Metal Gear Solid is modeled after Tokyo Marui FAMAS, which in turn is modeled after the FAMAS G1. I think the FAMAS entries for Metal Gear Solid and Twin Snakes should be changed to the FAMAS G1 instead of the FAMAS G2.
New image for G2
Am I the only one who thinks that it was a bad idea to overwrite a standard FAMAS G2 pic with the image of a G2 with F1-style trigger guard?? I cannot find any page with that configuration. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 13:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)
The Search for the FAMAS' replacement
Fans of this gun may be interested in knowing the circumstances behind this gun's upcoming replacement in the future. I happened upon a guest blogger's post that explains the problematic circumstances the French Army is currently in and how the efforts to replace the FAMAS are being affected. If that blogger's words are true, then the French Army is deep in the merde. --Mazryonh 22:00, 28 August 2012 (CDT)
Pretty sure they decided to officially replace it with an HK417 variant although they'll still buy some SCAR-Ls as well since SF use them already Recon42 (talk) 15:04, 28 January 2013 (EST)Recon42
Well, you were almost right. They are replacing it with H&K 416, but will take up to 2020.--Dannyguns (talk) 05:09, 26 March 2019 (EDT)
F1 Images
They're both virtually identical. I think we could do to delete one of them. Spartan198 (talk) 09:48, 12 October 2014 (EDT)
The FAMAS in current news
Check out the current FAMAS configuration in this News Photograph. This shot was in the news as of March 25th, 2013. Note: this is a news image and thus not an image for the IMFDB pages, but I thought it would be interesting to see. :) MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 00:31, 26 March 2013 (EDT)
- France have F'd around with the FELIN compatible FAMAS so much at this point the number of variants is ridiculous. They had one based on the F1 with curved bipod legs, then the G1 with straight legs, a G2 one (STANAG mags) which had a metal guard around the bottom, then back to one with the FAMAS mags with a polymer guard around the bottom with a separate little guard around the front grip and curved bipod legs, then back to a STANAG mags one with straight bipod legs but without the front guard or the ribbed grenade barrel, and then finally this one with curved bipod legs and a proprietary mag well. I am probably missing variants as well, it seems like the development has been a bit of a rocky road to say the least. I also like the fact that it has all the integration and controls for the laser rangefinder, eyepiece sight and all that, and they just slap an EOTech on the top and call it a day. --commando552 (talk) 13:37, 26 March 2013 (EDT)
Personal Discussion
I know this is a bit off-topic, but let's see a show of imaginary hands as to who has seen one of these in person. Here's mine: (I don't really know a good, concise way of drawing a hand with text, so just picture that I did). Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 22:22, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
- You'll likely see them, especially now, if you ever go to France. I took this near the Eiffel Tower: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43827259@N08/14563528133/in/dateposted/
- --AgentGumby (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
- Yes, you can see them easily if you spend some time around urban France. But aren't the FAMAS rifles due to be replaced soon, given that they can't use NATO standard brass-cased 5.56mm ammunition and have a unique firing action unlike the ubiquitous M4A1 rifle? --Mazryonh (talk) 22:05, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
- I saw one on a trip a few years ago. We were going on a family trip across Europe, and one of the destinations was France (both to sightsee and to visit family). At one point, we visited Versailles, where we saw soldiers out front with FAMAS F1s. Oddly, at least one had no magazine loaded. Does anybody know why? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 16:02, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
- Some military organisations that have a sort of police role do this on occasion, the logic being that it is safer than carrying around a loaded gun from an ND point of view, but also if the rifle is snatched or otherwise lost (e.g. the soldier leans it against the wall of a bathroom while taking a piss and forgets to pick it back up, which has happened) it doesn't have any ammunition in it. --commando552 (talk) 16:15, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
- Thanks for the explanation; that makes some sense. Also, that reminds me of the one time a police officer left a rifle just lying on the trunk of his car, out in the open, while he wasn't around, and anybody could "borrow" (read: steal, sell to a crime syndicate, and use the money to fund their heroin addiction) it. I'm not sure what about that is most remarkable: the overall good will of people (in a major city, no less) for not stealing it, the officer's stupidity for leaving it there, or the department's stupidity for hiring such a person. See you later. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 01:02, 27 July 2016 (EDT)
- Some military organisations that have a sort of police role do this on occasion, the logic being that it is safer than carrying around a loaded gun from an ND point of view, but also if the rifle is snatched or otherwise lost (e.g. the soldier leans it against the wall of a bathroom while taking a piss and forgets to pick it back up, which has happened) it doesn't have any ammunition in it. --commando552 (talk) 16:15, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
- I saw one on a trip a few years ago. We were going on a family trip across Europe, and one of the destinations was France (both to sightsee and to visit family). At one point, we visited Versailles, where we saw soldiers out front with FAMAS F1s. Oddly, at least one had no magazine loaded. Does anybody know why? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 16:02, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
FÉLIN/Valorisé
Granted, the FÉLIN and the Valorisé are different variants, as stated in the FAMAS FÉLIN section, but it appears that they are being confused in media where the weapon appears. What's with that? I think that the weapon shown in this website is actually the Valorisé, and not the FÉLIN. Any ideas? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 11:12, 9 February 2017 (EST)
- I think that the main reason it is so confusing is that there have been so many different prototypes and variants of the FAMAS (some of which share names whilst there are others that have multiple names) that it is incredibly hard to actually work out the family tree of this weapon. I think the reason that people tend to call the Valorisé the Félin is because the original model of the Félin looked a lot like this, as it didn't have the dual grips like it does now, it was more like a formal FAMAS with a control module attached to the bottom of the handguard wired to a scope on the rail. I think our Valorisé image is actually a photoshop or prototype, as I think it should have a G2 style smooth barrel, like the original Félin prototype as well. I believe that the current non-Félin rifle is actually called the Surbaissé rather than the Valorisé, as seen here. I do not know if this is just a name change (the new name makes more sense for its role), or if they are different variants. I think it is the latter as the front sight design has changed from the original rifle to the current issue one, however it may be that the name change happened after this variant was adopted, I'm not sure. Either way, I believe that it is wrong that we list the bottom image as a Surbaissé, as it has the dual Félin pistol grips. --commando552 (talk) 12:30, 9 February 2017 (EST)
- So in a nutshell, the page's section is a mess :P --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 05:16, 10 February 2017 (EST)
Late reply, but I found an image literally on Wikipedia (Here's also the whole gallery by the photo creator) showing what appears to be the actual FELIN-used prototype FAMAS. The current description says that FELIN is distinct from Valorise (but did not mention Surbaisse at all), so I think this weapon (visually distinct from the Surbaisse and Valorise though closer to Surbaisse) should be what the description is actually pointing to. I think we should move Valorise out into a new section and maybe explain what Surbaisse actually is. For that matter, where did we even get the names from? --Wuzh (talk) 23:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
One more "source". Translation-wise, Surbaisse means lowered, and Valorise means enhanced.--Wuzh (talk) 23:19, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
- That image is not a final production FELIN, it is one of the many prototypes. The definitive configuration of the production FELIN is the one on the main page, with the enclosed pair of polymer grips with the thumb controls on the front grip. Apart from that it all gets a bit tricky due to the fact that the French military seem to have called them different things at different times. The use of the "Surbaissé" terminology has been around for years and has been applied to a few different experimental FAMAS variants that have a rail rather than the carry handle. I believe that the "Valorisé" name applies specifically and only to the version that is essentially a FELIN without the front grip. Incidentally, this is different to the one on the main page as that one lacks the fixed front sight that a real Valorisé has. Here is an image of a real Valorisé showing that it has the same fixed front sight as on the FELIN. This version of the Valorisé is the one that has actually been issued and has seen service. The intent was to issue people in FELIN equipped units who did not require the full FELIN system with Valorisé rifles, but that plan is kind of irrelevant now as the whole lot are getting replaced with HKs. Regardless, I do not really know what to call the "FAMAS Valorisé" that is on the main page, I would probably say to call it a Surbaissé as I think that the only rifle that should actually be called a Valorisé is the final adopted rifle with the fixed front sight. --commando552 (talk) 12:25, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
- Here is an additional image showing the in service versions of the FELIN and Valorisé side by side. --commando552 (talk) 12:27, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
- I found this source on this website, which identifies Surbaissé as the one we've been calling "FAMAS Valorisé" and Valorisé as an even further modified form (which loosely resembles this FAMAS G2 FELIN thing circulating around the internet as an image). No idea if it is legit though. --Wuzh (talk) 08:16, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
- That Surbaissé is different to the one on the main page and is an earlier prototype. That one has a higher rail as they are still using a vertical charging handle and haven't gone to the ambidexterous sideways one yet. If that document is to believed (and I think it is, as it is from GIAT) it seems that the orginal intent was for the Surbaissé to be the core weapon (or perhaps just the main receiver component) from which the two other variants (FELIN and Valorisé) were made. This is not necessarily the case with the final guns though as they have different lower receivers as the HMI (Human Machine Interface, i.e. second grip) is built in rather than being a bolt on part. As the prototype on the main page could technically have the earlier HMI bolted on to it maybe it could be called a Surbaissé, but as it has the scope mounted maybe that makes it a prototype Valorisé. I don't really know, I could be misunderstanding it as my knowledge is filtered through a layer of Google Translate. --commando552 (talk) 09:40, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
Not really replying to anything, but I just want to add that this image from 2006 shows a version of the FELIN FAMAS as it is transitioning from image 1 on main page to image 3, with short straight bipod legs and rails in the style of image 1, but has the front grip with controls, same as the one on image 3. --Wuzh (talk) 08:05, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
- There are even a couple of additional steps between that one and the final one. The problem with this program is that there are at least a dozen (probably more) different variants and prototypes associated with it, and they do not necessarily have a logical progression. For example, there were prototypes in 2004 that had the curved bipod legs, the short bit of rail on top ahead of the bipod, and an almost final sight rail design (still missing the front sight like the 2nd image on the main page) yet later prototypes seemingly then went backwards from here. I think part of the reason for this is that with FELIN the difficult part is not really the rifle, all that has to be is a rifle with a scope mount and a few buttons. The real tricky part is the thermal sight, the helmet sight and the computers. To me it seems like they were really just playing around with the rifle using whatever they had laying around whilst trying to get this other stuff working. For example the rifle you have linked to there actually seems to be a weird G2 with F1 furniture that they have just kind of cobbled a scope rail and second grip (note how rather than being and integral molded plastic part it is a metal part that is bolted onto a standard handguard with now superfluous finger grooves). The actual final guns are F1 based, but they seem to have used a lot of G2s for the prototypes as I assume this is what they had spare.--commando552 (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
How is it pronounced?
Is FAMAS pronounced FAH-MAHS or is it just said as EFF-AY-EM-AY-ES? -SeptemberJack (talk) 19:14, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
- Most of the people I've heard say "FAH-MAHS" (or, in a few cases, "EFF-AY-MASS"), so I think that that's the correct pronunciation, but I'm not 100% sure. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 19:31, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
- As far, as I know, French words pronounces mach differ from it's wrighting. For example, "Chassepot" pronounced as "Shasspou", "Nagant" as "Nagan", "Gras" as "Gra", "Gerard" as "Zherar", "Thomas" and "Dumas" as "Toma" and "Dyuma". So, FAMAS maybe pronounced as FAMA (or FAMAh). But, it's only my guess. Pyramid Silent (talk) 19:35, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
- Well, the whole "drop the last consonant" thing is pretty common in the French language, but I don't think it works like that here, since it's an acronym. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 20:46, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
- If Ian from Forgotten Weapons and Larry Vickers are correct, it's fah-MAHS. --Funkychinaman (talk) 20:13, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
- As far, as I know, French words pronounces mach differ from it's wrighting. For example, "Chassepot" pronounced as "Shasspou", "Nagant" as "Nagan", "Gras" as "Gra", "Gerard" as "Zherar", "Thomas" and "Dumas" as "Toma" and "Dyuma". So, FAMAS maybe pronounced as FAMA (or FAMAh). But, it's only my guess. Pyramid Silent (talk) 19:35, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
Ian McCollum on the FAMAS G1/G2
So, a few hours ago, Ian from Forgotten Weapons showed the FAMAS G2 in this video. From approximately 02:52 until 04:00, he talked about earlier G1, and mentioned that it used NATO-standard magazines (this is also stated in the relevant text in the video description and the FW article). This contradicts most sources saying that the G1 used the F1's proprietary 25-round magazines. What's the deal with this? --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 11:46, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
- That must be a mistake or misspeak; he goes on to show how the magwells are dimensionally different anyway and STANAG magazines are too long to fit inside the proprietary magwell.--AgentGumby (talk) 12:21, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
- The rifles he compared were an F1 and a G2, not a G1 and a G2. Given how little info we have on the G1 (and how it only has 3 media appearances, none of which (if I understand correctly) show it being fired), I'm tempted to say that the gun we've been calling the G1 is just a developmental prototype that wasn't designated (or maybe it was; the Felin/Valorise/Surbaisse program shows that the French can make these things remarkably hard to understand), or possibly even an airsoft-only configuration. It makes sense that, if they were developing different aspects of the gun at different times, they might've had one gun to test the 1:9 barrel and/or altered receiver surfaces with the old mags, and another to test the new magwell with the old ammo. Truth be told, I'm not sure that we'll ever know for certain unless somebody in the French government feels like sharing some info. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
- Um, I know that he was comparing an F1 and a G2 :P I was just saying that he brought up the G1 subject in the video. Anyway, for now it would probably come in handy for someone to ask him about the G1 discrepancy in the YT comment section; he's been replying to a few comments. EDIT: I noticed that someone did it a few minutes ago; we'll see if anything comes up. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:19, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
- I found some helpful brochures regarding the matter (1, 2, 3), from GIAT, according to the logo shown. They pretty much indicate that the G1 used 25-rounders, just like most sources say. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 12:24, 3 June 2020 (EDT)
- Um, I know that he was comparing an F1 and a G2 :P I was just saying that he brought up the G1 subject in the video. Anyway, for now it would probably come in handy for someone to ask him about the G1 discrepancy in the YT comment section; he's been replying to a few comments. EDIT: I noticed that someone did it a few minutes ago; we'll see if anything comes up. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 13:19, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
- The rifles he compared were an F1 and a G2, not a G1 and a G2. Given how little info we have on the G1 (and how it only has 3 media appearances, none of which (if I understand correctly) show it being fired), I'm tempted to say that the gun we've been calling the G1 is just a developmental prototype that wasn't designated (or maybe it was; the Felin/Valorise/Surbaisse program shows that the French can make these things remarkably hard to understand), or possibly even an airsoft-only configuration. It makes sense that, if they were developing different aspects of the gun at different times, they might've had one gun to test the 1:9 barrel and/or altered receiver surfaces with the old mags, and another to test the new magwell with the old ammo. Truth be told, I'm not sure that we'll ever know for certain unless somebody in the French government feels like sharing some info. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
FAMAS Valorise/Felin barrel rifling twist?
Are there any official documentations/verification about these upgraded FAMASs' rifling twist? I am not sure if these rifles still have the original F1 twist, or have been changed to newer 1:9 like the G2 variants to be able to shoot SS109 rounds.
The only place I find where someone mentioned the rifling twists of these rifles is here http://regimentals.jugem.jp/?day=20120713 . I need to use translation to understand it.
The blog poster is a Japanese French foreign legion personal. He mentioned in the blog that these rifles had been changed to use NATO rounds. However, with only one source, it is hard to verify. Still better than no source of information though.
It will be good if someone can share more information about these rifles' rifling twist.