Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series: Difference between revisions
Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series: Difference between revisions
In what year did the rail become standard on the P226 so that it was just called P226 rather than P226R? Or is it still called P226R?--Suceress2 11:39, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
I remember them becoming available around 2004/2005, and then being standardized shortly after (probably by 2006 or so). SIG was still putting out non-rail P226s as recently as 2007 (which is when I first started looking to buy a P226), but they haven't been available since then. Also, the rail was introduced first on the P226 Tactical before it became a standard feature on all 226s and other SIGs. -MT2008 11:43, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
The last P226 without the rail was the P226 SAS (a dehorned DAK gun), which was discontinued in 2008. --commando552 11:53, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:02, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Thank you for the responses! I checked the Sig-Sauer website and couldn't really find much about dates or useful information. I was hoping they would have a nice gallery of the various guns available. They do have quite a few pictures, but I don't think it comes anywhere near showing the full range of the product.--Suceress2 02:45, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
The SIG website is useful for identifying current products, but not so much for old ones. The discontinued page has some good info, but only goes back about the last 2-3 years. I know that the rail was introduced on the P226 Tactical, but I don't remember when that was exactly. I believe that was around 2004 or so, but the rails were not standardized on the P226 until early 2006. SIG offered various models without rails, such as the SAS and German, and I believe they offered something along the lines of Classic, but I might be confusing that with the German. I think that SIG should keep the non rail frame availiable as an option, as there are many people that would pay good money for one.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:36, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
P226R
I know that the ones with rails are now the standard, and I have tried to find more information on the history of the P226. I've found a few sites that talk about the dates in which certain models were introduced and such, but I have yet to find anything that says when rails were first added to the P226. Does anyone know the approximate year when rails were added? Also, in what year did the rails become standard? I know that the trigger bar spring was completely changed in 1998, but what about the rails?
Oh, and how can I tell a P226R from a P226 E2? Is there a way to tell by looking at the pictures? Someone speculated that the current model used by SSA Derek Morgan on Criminal Minds is an E2 but I have no idea how to tell.--Suceress2 01:17, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
I think the way it goes is that they had the P226R which became the standard P226, then they had an upgrade version of this called the E2 (Enhanced Ergonomics) which had a short reset trigger and screwless one piece prip plates, and now this has become the standard P226. The only difference between the E2 (discontinued) and the now standard P226 is that the E2 had an "E2" logo on the front of the slide. As for the Criminal Minds gun, see the talk page there for my opinion on that. --commando552 03:35, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Thank you, Commando552. Do you have any idea of the approximate years when the changes with the rail happened? I looked all over and could not find the year when rails were added or when they became standard. Google searches just kept coming up with a bunch of unrelated stuff. --Suceress2 01:55, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The name 'P226R' isn't an actual model name, more of a way to distuinguish between rail and non rail SIGs. I don't think that the P226 was ever called a P226R officially by SIG, but I could be wrong. As far as when the rail was first made standard, I believe that was 2007.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:26, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
That actually was an official SIG designation and marketed as such during the period when standard and railed frames were available concurrently. I don't know exactly when the P226R was introduced, but think it was early-mid 2000's, with the rail becoming standard on the P226 (excluding anti-snag models) in 2005/2006. --commando552 07:06, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
Oh cool! Thank you for that information! I'm taking down notes on it. I'm now curious about the "anti-snag" models. Did the rails snag on things before being perfected?--Suceress2 02:48, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
SIG produces versions of their pistols known as SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) that have had all the corners and edges smoothed (also called "dehorning" in order to make the pistol less likely to get caught up on clothing. They uses to make an SAS model of the P226 which even after they introduced the rail as standard had the smooth frame, as the rail makes the pistol more likely to snag when used for concealed carry. They don't make the P226 SAS anymore (P226 is rather large for concealed carry afterall) but they do still make an SAS model of the P229 which has the smooth frame rather than the railed frame on the standard P229. --commando552 17:38, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
Finally found it, the rail was first introduced in 2004 with the standard frame being completely phased out in late 2007/early 2008.----JazzBlackBelt-- 14:16, 2 June 2012 (CDT)
P245
I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --Jcordell 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
P228
I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -Gunman69 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -MT2008
Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -Gunman69 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
P220
Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -Anonymous
Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP.
Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --Crazycrankle 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.SAWGunner89 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
P6 hammer notch
As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?SAWGunner89 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228
Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.
I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -MT2008 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Just wondering?
Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?
Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice.
-Double Agent M
Uhm,I'm just wondering.What is that small thing, which is near safe button? Littlesoldier1 12:21, 4 January 2012 (CST)
Gonna have to be more specific. Are you talking about the magazine release or the slide release? or are you talking about the takedown lever? Bristow8411 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CST)
And whats the safe button? --Zackmann08 16:04, 18 January 2012 (CST)
Modern Sigs do not have an external safety. The controls are from the front as follows: Take down lever, hammer decocker for da/sa models (hole if DAK model), and slide release. Peejn8r
Generally true, but there are a few single action only variants of the P220 along with the P226 X-Five that have no decocker, and a frame mounted safety behind the slide release. --commando552 12:19, 19 January 2012 (CST)
Confirmation
I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -Anonymous
There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-Ranger01 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -Anonymous
Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-Ranger01 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -Anonymous
The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.
So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -Anonymous
Quick question about SIGs in films and television
I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - GunEnthusiast
In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.
I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -MT2008 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters
I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)
SEALS
Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--MarineCorps1 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. ----JazzBlackBelt-- 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The Navy SEALS also used the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 for a while before switching to the SiG-Sauer P226. Reason being? The H&K Mk 23 was deemed to be a bit of a piece of shit. With a heavy trigger pull and a clunky, unwieldy feel and ability to use, the SEALS kicked that pistol to the curb pretty quick. --ThatoneguyJosh 20:53, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
The MK23 wasn't developed until the 90s, they couldn't have used it before the SIG because it didn't exist when the SIG was adopted. Spartan198 (talk) 05:15, 8 July 2013 (EDT)
Form what I heard from people who actually own Mark 23s the trigger pull is better than the USP. :/ I would own a Mark 23 but that's just me, I like big, heavy (actually the Mark 23 only weighs as much as a M1911 handgun), over-engineered weapons that can survive a nuclear explosion. :P - Mr. Wolf 20:15, 5 June 2011 (CDT)
What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--MarineCorps1 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The Slides had a tendency to break; officially as a result of the SEALs using hotter rounds than the weapon was rated for.The Wierd It 18:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The other branches didn't feel the need to replace the M9, probably because the SEALS have higher standards for their sidearms. Also, the SIGs were extremely durable, you could take them through saltwater, drag them through sand, even pound it with a jackhammer and they would still fire. The other branches didn't use their sidearms nearly as much as the SEALS. Presently the Coast Guard is using the SIG-Sauer P229, and the actual agency NCIS (naval criminal investigative service, pretty much cops for the navy and marines) use P229s as well. Also, I don't know where you live, but if u live in america go on youtube and search for "nutnfancy p226 part 1" its the first one that shows up. He talks about the history of the P226 and its use with the SEALS.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The SIG P229 is a fine weapon, from my experiance its the best shooting handgun for me. Wonder if the P220 works aswell because I want one.--FIVETWOSEVEN 03:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
New P226
Has anyone seen the new production line SIG P226s? What do you guys think of the new grips? They've got the same grips that the E2 has now. I like them but I will miss the old P226 grips. --cool-breeze 15:34, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
I honestly think that I am the only one who does not like them. I like how they try to appeal to smaller-handed shooters, but I think they should have kept the "classic" style availiable as well. I handled a classic P226 with the E2 grips installed, and it just didn't feel right to me. They did this to the P229 (my favorite gun) and changed the slide style as well. I will miss the classic grips. (It feels so weird calling the SIGs I know and love the classic version)----JazzBlackBelt-- 02:46, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
Being a Brit the closest I get to handling a real gun are my airsoft ones, but if I manage to move to America (which is one of my lifes goals) I'd like to get some real guns. One of them is a SIG Sauer P226 but I prefer the classic unrailed frame. I wish SIG still produced those for sale as well. --cool-breeze 04:35, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
You can still get the old grips for SIGs. They sell them on their website, and i'm sure that various other distributors bought ass-loads of them to sell. The new grips give more options to a wider range of shooters. --TheDon 09:56, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
I've been thinking about ordering a pair for a while. Even though I can get my hand around my 226's grip just fine (the smaller circumference doesn't matter much to me), I've never liked the texture of the previous generation grips. The E2 grip texture is designed to be a lot like the grips on the very earliest P226s (the checker-pattern grips).
Also, SIG just introduced the "P226 German", which is a rail frame P226 that has the German-manufactured stamped slide of the oldest model P226s. I might have to get one some day - the old stamped slides are WAY superior to the milled slides that have been standard since the late-90s. -MT2008 10:27, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
When I saw the "P226 German" on their website I was hoping it would be a classic P226 without a rail but it has the rail. I don't understand why they don't still produce unrailed framed P226s. --cool-breeze 12:55, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
I must admit that I thought the same thing when I saw the German on their site. And i'm sure many other people were just as disappointed when they saw the rail... honestly, I can see where they could be useful, but aesthetically I prefer SIGs without rails. Like the P229 SAS, for instance. --TheDon 22:40, 25 July 2011 (CDT)
They could be useful but SIGs look so much better without them. And there's nothing wrong with the Harries technique in my opinion if you need a flash light. --cool-breeze 06:11, 26 July 2011 (CDT)
1. The SAS pretty much covers the rail-less Sigs. 2. As I own a 229(R) the rail isnt bad for texture. Really causes no problems holstering. If you dont like the look I dont know what to tell you. Having the rail standard is a good idea because it gives you the OPTION to put a light or laser on your gun. 3. Carrying a light in your off hand will work but putting the light on your gun is a much sturdier option letting you still have full control of your firearm with both hands and the added benefit of the light. Peejn8r
I agree with you on all of these points. We were speaking purely of the aesthetic value of the rails. I'm sure some some people like the looks of them, and personally don't think they're THAT bad. I just feel that SIGs, especially those with the new one piece, snap on grips, look much better without them. --TheDon 22:07, 9 February 2012 (CST)
P239 Slide
As far as I can tell, there are two different slide designs for the P239, the first being the one similar to the P228 that is seen on the gun images for this page, but then you also have a design similar to the P229 that can be seen on the pages for Chuck and Nikita (2010) for example. Does this indicate different manufacture date, or does the slide change with calibre? --commando552 02:23, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
I think the slide changes as to whether its a 9mm or 40 cal. The reason why the 228 was discontinued in favor of the 229 was that they couldn't make the 228 strong enough to take 40 cal and the 'marketplace' expected any 9mm to be available in .40 SW as well. So I believe the frame can take the stresses of both 9mm and 40 cal and (obviously) the barrel and slides are different. :) Of course, now I expect someone out of the blue to completely prove me wrong .... sigh....MoviePropMaster2008 03:52, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
I believe that is right, just remember that the slides are reversed in the 239 (half serration = 9mm, full serration = 40SW or 357SIG) compared to the 228/229. Also the frame of the 228 is slightly smaller than that of the 229, and old model 229's in 9mm have a slightly smaller frame than those in 40SW, though, if I understand it right, the new model 229's (full cocking serration) use the same frame for both 9mm and 40SW. The size does not make that big of a difference unless you try to put E2 grips onto a 228, where the size difference will prevent them from fitting (unless you got a late model 228 that used 229 frames). Hope that helped rather than confused. Dover500 07:42, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
Thanks, that helps. Assumed it was calibres as the SIG website has current pics of both types, but assumed it was the same way round as P228/P229 and wondered why the most common version in TV is .40 rather than 9mm. Second part has thrown me though, as didn't realise that P229s now had full height serrations. Is there anyway (from a distance without examining frame thickness) to tell the difference between a current P229 and a P228R? --commando552 09:02, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
The new P229's have the E2 grip which is smaller than the old grip, lack grip screws, and are one piece as opposed to the older 2 piece model. But since the P228R uses a P229 frame and E2 grips can be attached to older P229 frames, and the new P229's can still have the old grip style swapped in if the user so desires, there is no real way without holding it or seeing the stamp on the slide to know for sure.Dover500 10:25, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
The extractor on the new P229 is much larger than before.----JazzBlackBelt-- 16:16, 10 October 2011 (CDT)
Broken links
Although more correct, when --JazzBlackBelt-- put "-Sauer" into the titles for the different guns it now means that all of the redirects, like SIG-Sauer P226, don't go to the correct section anymore, along with any links that are in articles (such as [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]) that lead to a particular section. I take it there is no way to fix the second problem short of going through every single article and changing it is there? Also, why do we put the dash in SIG-Sauer, as far as I can tell the actual company name is either SIG SAUER, or SIG Sauer. --commando552 07:26, 17 January 2012 (CST)
You are right about the title, they never refer to themselves as "SIG-Sauer" but "SIG Sauer". And, right again, theres no way to fix the redirect problem :( --bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:29, 17 January 2012 (CST)
I thought that when SIG joined up with Sauer they put a hyphen between their names. Also, the little thing at the top of the page says that we should put a hyphen.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
You could always just edit the redirects... Go to the SIG-Sauer P226 page and change where it redirects... I've already done it for the P226 (try the link and see for yourself). Shouldn't be that difficult. --Zackmann08 14:51, 17 January 2012 (CST)
commando552 and I were not talking about the [[SIG-Sauer P226]] redirect, but the pages like The Negotiator or XXX where the longer [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] hyperlink is used. Those now redirect to the top of the page instead of the P226's section. And the only way to fix them is to change them on every page that uses this hyperlink. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 15:47, 17 January 2012 (CST)
What he said. I know the first problem is fixable like you said, was going to edit the redirects earlier but didn't in case the name changed again. --commando552 16:43, 17 January 2012 (CST)
My bad. Though I will say that this is a perfect reason why using this style: [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]] is a bad idea (not saying it was your guys fault or anything, just saying that its a good reason to avoid that type of coding). --Zackmann08 19:55, 17 January 2012 (CST)
Wow, my bad guys, I didn't know it would jack up all the redirects. What if we reverted the page back, but added a note at the top of the page stating that the proper name has the Sauer in it?----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:53, 17 January 2012 (CST)
We should strive to be as correct as possible. If it's right, it's right. I'm willing to put in the legwork. --Funkychinaman 22:00, 17 January 2012 (CST)
P239 & P245
Considering the name of this page is P220 pistol series shouldn't these guns be on their own page? Thoughts? --Zackmann08 20:22, 9 February 2012 (CST)
Both the P239 and P245 belong to the P220 line. The P245 is a compact P220 that was replaced by the P220 carry, and the P239 is a compact, single-stack pistol that uses the P220 configuration.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:16, 9 February 2012 (CST)
Gotcha. Thanx! --Zackmann08 00:18, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Splitting up this page
I wanted to get some feed back on the idea of splitting up this page. I completely understand why the page is all together. These guns are all based on the same frame, etc. That being said, each model has its own variants. The P226 for example has at least 10+ variants, P226 Tactical, P226 X-Five, P226 Navy, etc. etc. It might be nicer to have each of these guns with their own page.
IF that were to happen this page could be converted into a disambiguation page that list's all the guns that are members of the series. Also, each individual page could mention that the gun is part of a larger series and could have a "See Also". Just food for thought... I would love to hear what people think. --Zackmann08 02:50, 11 February 2012 (CST)
I'm all for it, as there are some variants that appear in film/TV and we don't even have a picture of them. The downside to splitting this page up is that all the links for the SIG line will be broken, unless there is some all-magical admin power I don't know about.----JazzBlackBelt-- 21:56, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
P228 Picture
I believe that this was mentioned before, but the picture of the P228 looks odd. It bears many resemblances to my UHC Spring Airsoft P228, including the trigger, hammer, trigger pin placement, and even warps in the slide and frame. Even if the picture is not an airsoft replica, it does not do the P228 justice. I know how much work it is to find a good P228 to photograph, and then even more work getting the photo right. The picture now looks oddly misshapen, especially around the hammer and trigger guard. If you compare it to the picture of the two-tone P228 on this talk page, the differences are visible ----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:35, 23 March 2012 (CDT)
It's not an airsoft P228, I don't think. It has the exposed top of the barrel milled down, which is part of the blank-fire conversion process for SIGs (and many other handguns). This means that it's a blank-adapted movie gun. It's MPM2008's gun and his picture, so you can ask him how it ended up looking the way it did. He did tell me a while ago that he would look for another 228 to photograph, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet. -MT2008 23:52, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
P226 vs. HK USP
I know,that SIG's are very reliable pistols.But I also have read about USP stress test,where it was frozen and saltwatered and all other heavy conditions.
So I wonder,which of these 2 pistols is more reliable?
Not reliability per se, but I would say that a USP is more durable than a P226. The P226 uses an alloy frame (on most models) as opposed to the USP which has a polymer frame with steel inserts. The steel inserts are more resilient than the alloy frame which will wear out quicker and need replacing sooner (probably after somewhere in the range of 50,000 - 100,000 shots so is still pretty far off in the future).--commando552 12:59, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
Reliability and durability are two different things. The SIG wins reliability hands down, as there are little to no instances of them jamming, even with crappy ammo. The USP is also very good, but I have heard of more jams in them. Not many, but still a few more than the SIG. As the USP is a polymer framed gun, it has a higher chance of 'KBing' (kaboom) where parts of the gun (usually the frame) crack, or even fully break in two two while shooting. Glocks in .40 also do this a lot. As far as durability, the two guns are about equal. The SIG has been dragged through sand, saltwater, driven over by a bulldozer, jackhammered, and then frozen in a block of ice and dropped out of a helicopter onto concrete (and still fired), so I'd say that's a pretty durable pistol.----JazzBlackBelt-- 22:48, 3 April 2012 (CDT)
Wow! Is there any link for that stress-test? At least as a article?
Couldn't find it yet. Littlesoldier1 10:03, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
UPD: I,found it! Good! This gun is immortal!
Really impressed. Littlesoldier1 10:07, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
New P229
Since the new version has the standard slide shape, it's basically both the P228 and P229 at the same time, isn't it? A P228 with the P229's slightly shorter slide length. Alex T Snow 21:36, 22 June 2012 (CDT)
It also has an external extractor and has the E2 grips (although grips are changeable so not a reliable indicator). --commando552 04:58, 23 June 2012 (CDT)
By P228, I assume you are talking about the P228R. Appearance wise they are similar, but internally they are not. As commando mentioned the external extractor is new, but the new P229 also features the short reset trigger system (which has been reported to fit into a P228, but it isn't officially stated by SIG). The new P229 also uses the .40S&W frame for all calibers (even 9mm). This allows two extra rounds in the 9mm magazine. Because of the two extra rounds, the new 9mm P229 mags don't fit in a P229R or P228.----JazzBlackBelt-- 18:41, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
The last models of the P228 (I think SIG dropped the R like with the P226, but we call it the P228R on this site to distinguish it from the earlier non railed models) had the SRT. The P228R that MPM2008 has photographed on the main page has the SRT. --commando552 18:59, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
It definitely has a short trigger, but there is no way to tell if it has a short reset trigger. I have read about people who fit the short reset into P228's and P225's, so it is definitely a possibility.----JazzBlackBelt-- 20:33, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
What about naming for this model? Calling it a "New P229" on the site is a bit sloppy IMO, but simply calling it a P229 or a P229R confuses it with the older two models. I'm thinking we start calling it a "P229R-1", because that is how SIG's product numbers refer to it as opposed to the old model. Plus a lot of holster companies list a P229R and a P229R-1, which is the old and new model of P229. But if "New P229" works with everyone else, we won't change it.----JazzBlackBelt-- 23:45, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
The policy has always been to refer to it by the designation that it carried initially. For instance, we call rail-frame P226s "P226Rs" even though SIG does not use that designation themselves anymore. So in this case, it's the same deal - call it "P229 E2" but note in the image caption that we only call it this for the sake of distinction from older models. -MT2008 (talk) 22:15, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
Sounds good, but will the true E2s (with white slide markings) be in the same category as the new standard models? Since there aren't too many of the true E2s in media I doubt there'll be a problem, but they are different nonetheless.----JazzBlackBelt-- (talk) 22:56, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
Yes, they'll be in the same category, even though the current "E2" versions of both the 226 and 229 do not have "E2" markings on the slide. -MT2008 (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2013 (EDT)
MT2008, I think you are slightly confused with all due respect, about the so called "current E2 versions". The E2 versions have been discontinued by SIG Sauer, but the changes that were made to create the E2 SIG P226's and P229's have been transferred to the new standard P226's and P229's as well as the P220's with the grips. --L.J. Gibbs (talk) 11:53, 2 August 2014 (EDT)
SL Sport II
Does it have the same magazine capacity as the regular P226? - User: 2wingo
Why is SIG-Sauer P220 Sport discountinued (same question for other dis. guns, example: Deagle in .440 and .41)? What's the reason? TitaniumAlloy (talk) 09:29, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
I would assume that not enough people were buying them to make it financially viable to keep producing them, pretty much the same as most products that get discontinued. --commando552 (talk) 11:33, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
+P Ammo
Can the P228 handle overpressure ammunition? - User: 2wingo
Yes it should be fine with +P or NATO ammo, but may wear out quicker. SIG recommends that you don't use +P+ on their site: "+P Ammo manufactured to SAAMI/CIP/NATO specs is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use. Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol. We do NOT recommend the use of any +P+ round. This may void your warranty". --commando552 (talk) 19:33, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
What about military M11s? Are they made to tougher specifications to handle the higher pressure ammo? Spartan198 (talk) 05:07, 8 July 2013 (EDT)
P225 replica?
I noticed that the P225s in some films shot in Germany looks a bit funny. For example, the muzzle of a real P225 is supposed to look like this, and below are two caps of P225s from two different films where they look different. The only thing they have in common are that they were both shot in Germany around the same time period (late eighties/early nineties). Is it some sort of replica? Or an airsoft? --Funkychinaman (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2014 (EDT)
From Dick Francis: In the Frame (1989)
Looks like a Non-Gun to me. --L.J. Gibbs (talk) 11:43, 29 December 2014 (EST)
Any 224s or 227s?
Anyone find any movies with these yet? Kind of surprised there aren't any listed so far, especially the P227 .45 ACP. Thewolfchild (talk) 03:58, 2 August 2014 (EDT)
Something to bear in mind, is that firstly the P227 looks largely the same as a P226 so it is possible that there may have been some that have been labelled as P226s as it can be pretty much impossible to tell the difference. Secondly, due to the fact that they look so similar there is very little to be gained by an armourer procuring some P227s if they already have P226s in their inventory. Not only do they need to pay money to purchase and blank adapt new weapons that look pretty much the same as ones they already have, but a P227 is also less practical from a production standpoint. The ammo costs more, the grip is larger so could be uncomfortable for some actors, and the magazine is smaller so would need to be reloaded more often. I'm sure that some will turn up eventually, but I doubt anybody is rushing out to get one. --commando552 (talk) 07:09, 2 August 2014 (EDT)
I figured I would use these photos I found on the SIG website to back up commando552's claim. --L.J. Gibbs (talk) 12:06, 2 August 2014 (EDT) (Could someone help tutor me in the fine art of uploading and formatting pictures and text?)
In order to get a thumbnail on a page you need to use [[file:file name.jpg|thumb|400px|none|caption]]. The first part is the file name of the image you want, next specifies that you want to make a thumbnail with caption, the next part with the number with the px is how many pixels wide the thumbnail is, the next part controls where the image is located on the page (the only ones you will ever use are none for listing it on a media page, or right for on a gun page), and last part is the caption. For example, [[File:227-Nitron-Detail-L.jpg|thumb|401px|none|SIG-Sauer P227 - .45 ACP]] creates: Error creating thumbnail: File missingSIG-Sauer P227 - .45 ACP As for the pictures themselves, it is best for them to be on a plain white background cropped tight around the gun. As an example I have done this for the P227 image you uploaded (you will notice I have changed the sizes by 1px, this is a trick to get the database to instantly generate new thumbnails after an image is updated rather than having to wait). There are several help pages that you may want to look at if you want to start editing stuff, such as Help:Editing, IMFDB Style Guide, IMFDB Page Templates, IMFDB Screencapping Guide, along with the Rules, Standards and Principles. To be honest, probably the easiest way of formatting something into a page though, is finding what you want on another page and just cop and pasting it in changing the relevant details. --commando552 (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2014 (EDT)
Hey, guys and gals. Is it alright if I go ahead and put in a picture of the current production SIG Sauer P220? I do not want to make a change that would upset anyone without first asking and getting approval. --L.J. Gibbs (talk) 11:56, 2 August 2014 (EDT)
And can I also update the SIG Sauer P226 "standard" picture? --L.J. Gibbs (talk) 11:57, 2 August 2014 (EDT)
In the current production variant of the P220 has appeared in something, then yes you can upload an image of it. If not, then no. We only allow images of variants that have actually appeared in media to be uploaded, as otherwise it is possibly confusing and a waste of space. As for the P226 image, which one do you think needs to be updated? If you mean "File:SigP226.jpg" then no, you cannot update it as this is an image of a real blank adapted movie gun, and the same goes for "File:P226R.jpg". --commando552 (talk) 19:11, 3 August 2014 (EDT)
M11A1
In the description for the P228, the M11A1 is mentioned to be a "railed" version of the military P228. I assume that means that it has an under barrel rail, but there isn't a rail on the M11A1 that I know of. Is there a version of the M11A1 with a rail, or is this just a mistake? --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 13:49, 27 December 2014 (EST)
The M11A1 is SIG's civilian version of the M11. The military uses the M11 desgination for all P228's, railed or not. I don't know the full backstory, but something led SIG to mate P228 slides with P229R frames and send them to the military is lieu of traditional non-railed P228's. I think it was an overstock of P228 slides but I could be mistaken. We call these P228R's. So in essence, P228 = traditional P228, M11 = any P228 under military use, M11A1 = SIG's civilian version of the M11.----JazzBlackBelt-- (talk) 15:29, 27 December 2014 (EST)
I am not asking about that. I am specifically asking about the recently released M11A1. The M11A1 is a factory produced model which, as far as I know, is not railed, but the article states that it is a railed version of the original military M11. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 16:25, 27 December 2014 (EST)
Then yes, that is a mistake in the description.----JazzBlackBelt-- (talk) 17:06, 27 December 2014 (EST)
OK, thanks, I didn't want to change it in case there were railed versions that I want aware of. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 17:18, 27 December 2014 (EST)
'West German' models
I have a bit of an inquiry - I've seen some edits lately specifically indicating some listings of earlier P226s as 'West German' models - I think these distinctions are being made based on the physical appearance of the stamped slide, but my question is, is it still accurate to specify them as such on that alone? I wouldn't think so - I had thought some SIG pistols were made domestically in the states (as well as after there was a 'West' Germany, for that matter) with the stamped slides. And with that, is it accurate and/or proper to state that or is it something that should be omitted/changed unless there's a reason to point it out? StanTheMan (talk) 23:56, 27 January 2015 (EST)
I do not think that stamped slides were ever made in the US, so if you see one then it is German made. However, you are correct that it does not mean that it is WEST German made, as I believe that they were still making stamped slide version up until the mid 2000s, long after there was only the one Germany. German production started using milled stainless slides in about 2000 I think to cope with .357 and .40, however they carried on making the "Classic" line for a few years after this point (they might actually still make them, but I can't seem to find them on the German site). I believe that if you see one that has the bevelled edges above the slide serrations (here is a nice image of what I mean) then I think you can safely call it a West German gun as these were made in the late 80s before reunification. --commando552 (talk) 08:08, 28 January 2015 (EST)
One more thing that I forgot to mention, even if you see a gun marked as made in West Germany, this doesn't actually mean that it is. When Germany was reunified there was something like a 5 year grace period in which companies could still sell products marked as made in East/West Germany and SIG-Sauer continued to mark slides as made in W. Germany for some time after 1990 (not sure for exactly how long, but they did do it). --commando552 (talk) 08:55, 28 January 2015 (EST)
Well I figured that was the case - The US point was a stretch but I just wanted to be sure on the matter about any models specifically ID'd as 'West German' when they potentially might not be exactly. I think on those instances I might just edit those listings to omit that point - It's only done on a couple of instances so it's hardly consistent (pages where we simply note them as 'older' models due to the stamped slides are more common) and I remember seeing involved debates about making notes about manufacture origin on media pages when many times wasn't accurate (for whatever reason) and in any event wasn't necessary. Furthermore, I think there's no good showings of the guns in these cases to specifically show the beveled serrations to confirm them as actual West German-made models. Although these are pages for films made well back in the 90s so these SIGs are very likely to be those older 'West German' models anyway - If so, stating such is kinda redundant, as well. So all-told, seems to support my thought the comments could be inaccurate, and ultimately aren't required to state anyway (at least, generally-speaking). StanTheMan (talk) 13:59, 28 January 2015 (EST)
What I have done wrong?
Why the "table" I made is a completely disaster? Can someone help me fix it?--Dannyguns (talk) 04:52, 24 April 2017 (EDT)
Done, you just space barred between the first { and | in the game table and be sure to add <BRclear=all> (but space bar after typing in BR and I can't do it here because it won't show) all the way to the bottom. -I'mallaboutguns.1 (talk) 05:50, 24 April 2017 (EDT)
Thank you bro--Dannyguns (talk) 08:00, 24 April 2017 (EDT)
