Rambo III: Difference between revisions
Rambo III: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Rambo III: Difference between revisions
A real Oerlikon 20mm AA gun is used in the final battle, wielded by Col. Trautman, however it is mysteriously missing a rear sight and (most importantly) the drum magazine. This is an auto cannon with no ammunition. The one used in the film was an 'acetylene' gun (a real weapon mocked up with Acetylene gas internals to 'fake firing'). This method is used many time in either helicopter mounted guns (for safety) and heavy machine guns. They fire a 'flash of fire' rather slowly to simulate the firing of a large machine gun round.
A real Oerlikon 20mm AA gun is used in the final battle, wielded by Col. Trautman, however it is mysteriously missing a rear sight and (most importantly) the drum magazine. This is an auto cannon with no ammunition. The one used in the film was an 'acetylene' gun (a real weapon mocked up with Acetylene gas internals to 'fake firing'). This method is used many time in either helicopter mounted guns (for safety) and heavy machine guns. They fire a 'flash of fire' rather slowly to simulate the firing of a large machine gun round. Supplied by Ellis Mercantile for the film.
[[Image:Rambo3-20mmA.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Richard Crenna mans a fake Oerlikon 20mm gun. For an example of a correct Oerlikon gun (see the ''[[Stealth]]'' page.]]
[[Image:Rambo3-20mmA.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Richard Crenna mans a fake Oerlikon 20mm gun. For an example of a correct Oerlikon gun (see the ''[[Stealth]]'' page.]]
[[Image:Rambo3-OerlikontrackA.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colonel Trautman tracks the Fake Hind Gunship with his Oerlikon. In reality, one direct hit in a vital area from a 20mm shell at that range would down the helicopter immediately.]]
[[Image:Rambo3-OerlikontrackA.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colonel Trautman tracks the Fake Hind Gunship with his Oerlikon. In reality, one direct hit in a vital area from a 20mm shell at that range would down the helicopter immediately.]]
Rambo III (1988) is an unusual movie in that it's production was halted about two thirds into the shooting schedule of the film. Rambo III was scheduled to film entirely in Israel (and Thailand for the first part of the film), and many scenes were filmed in Eilat (the southern most tip of Israel between Jordan and Egypt), using Israeli armorers. However, the spectacle of a major American movie being filmed in the middle east created a lot of concern about terrorist attacks (to disrupt the production and 'send a message of the U.S.'). Before production could be completed, it is said that Israel revoked the production's permission to remain in the country (the rumored reason being security concerns and threats made to the American film crew). Not wishing for a multi million dollar film to be scrapped, then California State Senator Pete Wilson (R) (a big proponent of the film industry in California and later Governor of the state), helped the production relocate back to Southern California and Arizona. The remaining shots were completed (including many insert shots) using the same talent, but utilizing areas around the American Western Desert, most notable Yuma, AZ for the final battle and Lone Pine, CA for 2nd unit photography. The sudden change from 'accurate Soviet weaponry' (provided by the Israeli armorers) to the typical 'faux' weaponry seen in many American movies, is explained by this sudden relocation back to the U.S.A. Thus we see mocked up Browning M2 .50 cal Machine guns instead of real Soviet DShK 12.7mm MGs, etc. Stembridge Gun Rentals took over the final shoot (back in the states).
Most notably, the armored vehicles at the final battle changed from the authentic and original Soviet armored vehicles from the middle of the film, to the modified American tanks. These were provided by Veluzat Armored Vehicles out of Newhall, California. Only aficionados of tanks would notice the change.
Seen carried by the Mujahideen and by Armed tribal members in Peshawar, Pakistan. The ones in the early parts of the film are authentic AK-47s (the real deal). These were all captured enemy arms, taken during the many wars between Israel and their neighbor nations. Israeli movie armorers have access to tons of authentic captured Soviet weaponry over the years, and any film shot in Israel would have real Soviet guns.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingTribal member in Peshawar holds an AK-47 - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingMujahideen fighters hold a council with Rambo, many holding AK-47s. These are Israeli movie guns, evident by the extra long screw on blank adapters on the end of the barrels. American Armorers usually have drop in BFAs or thread the interior of their barrels and use a hex nut as the blank adapter, but the Israelis don't. This is the case for every movie filmed in Israel that has AK-47s and is a good visual indicator where a scene was filmed.Error creating thumbnail: File missingAnother good shot of the AK-47s with the extended screw on blank adapters. These are noticeably thinner than any of the military screw on blank adapters and are a different shape than any military BFA issued for the AK or any of it's variants.
AKS-47
Seen briefly, some of the Soviet Soldiers carry the milled receiver AKS-47 underfolder rifle, the predecessor to the underfolder AKMS rifle. Since this sequence was filmed in Israel, one can assume these are authentic Russian AK-47 Milled receiver weapons.
Full Stock AKMs are used by the Mujahideen and the Russians. Rambo and Col. Trautman also use the AKM rifle on numerous occasions throughout the film. The ones used while filming in Israel are real Soviet AKM rifles. The ones used while filming in the United States were Maadi ARM rifles (the American imported versions of the MISR).
Error creating thumbnail: File missingAKM assault rifle, 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingCol. Trautman (Richard Crenna) and his AKM - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingCol. Trautman (Richard Crenna) fires his AKM - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingRussian soldier fires his AKM at the final battle (filmed in the United States). He is wearing the 'faux' copy of the KLMK pattern camo suit made for the movie Red Dawn and is wearing the plastic Soviet style helmet shell used by OPFOR (U.S. Military training units) - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingRambo with an AKM in the base. What appears to be a continuity error is actually an error by the editor. Rambo discards the AMD-65 he is originally using and picks up an AKM from a dead Russian soldier, but the action was cut down to a reaction shot where the AKM just 'appears' in his hands. This continuity issue was actually discussed by the armorers on the film.
AKMS
Carried by Mujahideen, the Russians and Rambo.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingAKMS, stamped steel receiver w/ slant muzzle brake and under-folding stock - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingMujahideen fires his AKMS - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingRambo uses the wire buttstock of an AKMS to break through a stone wall - 7.62x39mm. Again a weapons change that some thought was a continuity error, it actually isn't. Rambo enters the tunnel with a full stocked AKM, however he discards it along the way and takes Mousa's folding stock AKMS.
Type 56 Assault Rifle
When filming shifted to the U.S., the Chinese Type 56 (the military name of the imported Norinco AKS-47 Chinese rifles) were used in place of the AK-47s. Historically this is accurate anyway, since China supplied many Type 56 rifles to the Mujahideen fighters (by way of Pakistan) during the 1980s.
Colonel Trautman (Richard Crenna) and Rambo are seen with a Hungarian AMD-65 rifle. The traditional muzzle brake of the AMD-65 was replaced with an Israeli Blank fire adapter (also seen on the other AK variants). The same AMD-65 type rifles were also wielded by Russian Tankers (ironically, wearing the same 'faux' Soviet winter tanker uniforms made for the film "Red Dawn".)
Error creating thumbnail: File missingHungarian AMD-65 as seen in the film. This one has an American copy of an Israeli blank fire adapter (which is slightly longer and thinner than most commonly seen external BFAs. This is the version seen in the movie.)Error creating thumbnail: File missingRambo and the AMD-65 inside the desert prison - 7.62x39mmError creating thumbnail: File missingSoviet tanker crews getting mowed down by Rambo, all wielding AMD-65s with the Israeli BFAs - 7.62x39mm
Fake AKS-74
AKS-74 rifles were mocked up from AKMS underfolder rifles. The real AKS-74 assault rifle (5.45mm) is a side folding rifle. The ones in the film, however were obvious underfolding stocks as well as 7.62 sized magazines. A faux AK-74 style muzzle brake was put on the rifles. Remember that this was filmed in 1987, and no AK74 or 5.45mm guns existed in the United States (or our allies) at this time.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingColonel Zaysen (Marc de Jonge) gets ready to grab a fake AKS-74 (mocked up from an AKMS) to fire at a fleeing helicopter. These examples have the underfolding stock and the metal 30 round magazines.Error creating thumbnail: File missingA Spetsnaz Commando (looking suspiciously like Borat) is killed by Col. Trautman in the caves when the commando corners Rambo. Details of the firearm are visible in this double shot.Error creating thumbnail: File missingSpetsnaz commandos ride back towards the camp on armored vehicles, all carrying the fake AKS-74 rifles.
AKM with underslung M203 40mm grenade launcher
Of all the wacky weapons to appear in a war movie, this is one of the strangest combinations in cinema history. Lacking the Soviet 40mm BG-15 grenade launcher which was mounted to the real AK-74 rifles in the Russo-Afghan war, the movie armorers merely attached a U.S. made M203 grenade launcher to a Maadi AKM (ARM) rifle (with an aftermarket side folding stock). It is first seen wielded by Sgt. Kourov (Randy Raney), who is killed in a one on one fight with Rambo. Rambo later takes the weapon and uses it at the final battle. What is unusual is that after the first shot, Rambo fires multiple shots out of the 40mm launcher when he has no more visible rounds to load the weapon with.
In actuality there are no clear examples of the SMLE (No 1 Mk III) in the movie, however it is very possible that they were used in the mass scenes of horsemen. The Vast majority of rifles seen clearly seen being carried by any combatant on film are AK-47s, Mauser Kar98ks, Mosin-Nagant M91/30s and Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk 1s. When Rambo was in Peshawar, a number of Afghans in the crowded street were seen with No.1 MkIII* rifles slung over their shoulders while Rambo was heading to the arms dealer.
Seen in the hands of Mujahideen fighters throughout the film.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingLee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I - .303 British. The most common British Commonwealth World War Two Rifle, in service between 1941–PresentError creating thumbnail: File missingAn man is seen with a No.4 Mk 1 rifle slung over his right shoulder in the Arms bazaar in Peshawar Pakistan. He is likely an Afghan expat, having crossed over the border of Afghanistan, but many remote Pakistani tribals, especially those on the Afghan border, are so armed as well.
Mauser Karabiner 98k
Seen in the hands of Mujahideen fighters thoughout the film. Since most of the film was made in Israel, it is likely that the Mauser Kar98k rifles that were used were Israeli Mauser Kar98k rifles chambered for the 7.62mm NATO round.
Rambo briefly carried the SVD Dragunov rifle after the Hind helicopter he stole was shot down. Considering the time frame, it is also likely that the rifle is a Norinco NDM-86, the Chinese clone of the SVD rifle, since the NDM-86 was readily available for commercial sale during the late 1980s.
An unfortunate result of the sudden relocation of filming back to the U.S., a 'Soviet' soldier fires a mocked up Browning AN/M2 .30 cal machine gun with a fake extended barrel shroud to simulate some sort of Russian weapon. Weapon supplied by Ellis Mercantile.
Another Americam "Mock Up", an American M2 Heavy Barrel was mounted to a 'light blue pickup truck' and modified with another fake barrel shroud to disguise the weapon's origins.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingA disguised M2 .50 cal mounted on a standard pintle, with a four point 'tower' mount. (on a light blue pickup truck!)
An accurate and real DShK 12.7mm Soviet Machine Gun is used by Rambo to down an attack helicopter. It is one of the very few times a real DShK (rather than a fake one made out of an American gun like an M2 .50 cal) is used in an American Motion Picture. The scenes where a real DShK was used were filmed in Israel, using real Soviet weaponry courtesy of the Israeli Armorers.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingRambo readies his DShK Heavy Machine GunError creating thumbnail: File missingRambo fires his DShK Heavy Machine Gun - noteworthy is the non-disintegrating ammo belt (which is correct).Error creating thumbnail: File missingRussian guards at the base camp fire their DShK Heavy Machine Gun at Rambo - 12.7mmError creating thumbnail: File missingRambo prepares to take out a Russian sentry supposedly manning a DShK Heavy Machine Gun - 12.7mm. Rather than do the obvious thing and grab the AKMS with folding stock on the sandbags, the sentry tries to rotate the large heavy machine gun around to kill Rambo, but he is too slow and Rambo ends up killing him.
"Acetylene Gas firing" Oerlikon 20mm AA gun
A real Oerlikon 20mm AA gun is used in the final battle, wielded by Col. Trautman, however it is mysteriously missing a rear sight and (most importantly) the drum magazine. This is an auto cannon with no ammunition. The one used in the film was an 'acetylene' gun (a real weapon mocked up with Acetylene gas internals to 'fake firing'). This method is used many time in either helicopter mounted guns (for safety) and heavy machine guns. They fire a 'flash of fire' rather slowly to simulate the firing of a large machine gun round. Supplied by Ellis Mercantile for the film.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingRichard Crenna mans a fake Oerlikon 20mm gun. For an example of a correct Oerlikon gun (see the Stealth page.Error creating thumbnail: File missingColonel Trautman tracks the Fake Hind Gunship with his Oerlikon. In reality, one direct hit in a vital area from a 20mm shell at that range would down the helicopter immediately.Error creating thumbnail: File missingGood side shot of the "Acetylene Gas firing" Oerlikon.Error creating thumbnail: File missingCol Trautman (Richard Crenna) fires 'acetylene fire' from the front of his fake autocannon. This is a common special effect 'trick' used in movies when blanks are either too dangerous, too expensive, or too much of a hassle.Error creating thumbnail: File missingIn stand by mode, one can see the 'pilot light' still burning, waiting to ignite the bursts of flammable gas when the gun starts 'firing' again.Error creating thumbnail: File missingThe Oerlikon 20mm gun is seen again, mounted to a jeep with Masoud (Spiros Focás) riding in front, this time with the AA sights attached. Note: It is highly unlikely that a 20mm auto cannon would be mounted to a lightweight vehicle like a jeep. Even a .50 Cal MG would need special plates to keep from ripping itself from the mount of a lightweight vehicle.
Other Weapons
M19 60mm Mortar
Used by Mudjahideen fighters during the final battle.
An improvised flamethrower is used by the prison guards at the Russian military base.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingAfghan guard, dressed in all black clothing, but wearing Soviet tanker's insignia wields an improvised flamethrower, which Rambo takes and uses against him.
Russian RGD-1 Hand Grenades
Outside the base, trip wires are made using WW2 vintage Soviet RGD-1 grenades, the arming wire wrapped around the pin. Soviet soldiers can also be seen with these grenades on their jackets. In reality, the Red Army and their allies would be using the RGD-5 or later generations of fragmentation grenades.
A fake mockup of a M134 style minigun is mounted (with a very lightweight mount) to the front nose of the fake Russian Hind Helicopter Gunship. It fires (very weakly) a fake Acetylene fire blast during some of the fly by sequences. Most of the time in the movie, the firing of the helicopter's Minigun is implied, using ground squibs and sound effects. It is supposed to be a stand in for the real 12.7 mm YakB machine gun that is mounted on the real Mil MI-24 "Hind" gunships. The YakB Gatling gun is a rotating four barrel gun similar to the M134.
Unlike the first two films, Rambo's knife is not a survival knife in this film. Instead, it is a design by a fantasy knife artist, made more for looks than for practicality.
A custom take down Compound Bow is Rambo's weapon of choice when he wants to kill silently, or with blue cyalume light sticks or Torque arrows to 'explode a helicopter' (!)
Also seen in Red Dawn but most noted in Rambo II and Rambo III. The "Faux Hind's" are French made Aerospatiale Puma's but with bolt-on wings to appear like Soviet Gunship's with fake rocket pods etc. Although this was a mock up, The Pilots found them extremely practical other than vanity as they enabled the Chopper's to perform aerobatic stunts.
Seen used by Spetsnaz in the battle in the caves, we see an early model holographic or red dot optical sight mounted on a fake AK74. This was filmed in 1987 so we would see the early ancestors of today's EOTech or Aimpoint sights.
Rambo ducks under and hitches a ride underneath an authentic Soviet T-62 Tank. This was the night compound sequence filmed in Israel, (which was the only way an American film could obtain a Soviet tank) since no motion picture vehicle company in the U.S. had access to real Soviet Armor, especially a relatively recent tank like the T-62, during the time frame of this film.
When the film was forced to relocate to the United States, the movie's access to real Soviet vehicles suffered. The Russian armored vehicles in the final battle were taken straight from the film Red Dawn. This is a fake Russian T-72 tank from Veluzat Armored Vehicles out of Newhall, California.
Error creating thumbnail: File missingRambo miraculously manages to drive a tank, fire the main gun and reload it, with no other crewmen in the vehicle, while charging a helicopter!Error creating thumbnail: File missingDetail shot of the fake mocked up T-72 Russian tank sitting in a "hull-down" position. The small posts sticking out on the turret are smoke grenade launchers (as seen on the real T-72s)
Fake Russian ZSU-23 "Shilka" AA Gun
Built for the film Red Dawn, this fake ZSU-23 AA gun was a mockup from an American APC.
Not a weapon, but worth noting, the Soviet soldiers were outfitted years before any surplus came out of Russia or any of the Eastern bloc nations. The actors wore a bunch of stuff that no Soviet Soldier would be caught 'dead' wearing ....
Error creating thumbnail: File missingSoviet soldiers wear French Tropical hats in place of the correct Soviet desert boonie hatsError creating thumbnail: File missingMore "Soviet" extras in the Arizona desert. While carrying AKM rifles, they wear the fake KLMK style jumpsuits("Red Dawn" camo), Austrian web gear and Red Chinese Fur hats with the mini red star pins ... all while having hair that is far too long for the Soviet military standards. Only soldiers on long range missions, far from their base camp would be let-off being unshaven or grow their hair so long.
