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Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV: Difference between revisions
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The reason its still labeled incomplete is because some of the sections only have renders and no actual in game screenshots. If you can take some then go ahead otherwise I may be able to get a screenshot program next month.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 11:19, 2 March 2013 (EST) | The reason its still labeled incomplete is because some of the sections only have renders and no actual in game screenshots. If you can take some then go ahead otherwise I may be able to get a screenshot program next month.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 11:19, 2 March 2013 (EST) | ||
Another thing, I've found there's graffiti of a galil in some apartment. [[User:Rocketwarthog|Rocketwarthog]] ([[User talk:Rocketwarthog|talk]]) 00:33, 9 April 2013 (EDT) | |||
Revision as of 04:33, 9 April 2013
- Just a quick message from the creator, thanks for updating and correcting the article. It looks professional now. Thanks again.
Colt M4A1
Total BS, that's got to be a M468/REC7, model design is nothing close to an M4A1 (comment placed here so as to not clutter up the main article)
- Hi. I've looked at M468 and the REC7, and while, yes, they do bear some resemblance, there are also many differences which distinguish it to not be the weapon used in GTA IV. For example, the foregrip of the M468 is vastly different from the in-game weapon which is cylindrical, much like a stock M4, and does not have the R.I.S foregrip which features on the M468 or REC7. Another difference is that of the front sight, which is upright and fixed, found on the game's version of the weapon (again, like the M4A1) does not feature on either the M468 or REC7. Furthermore, neither the M468 or REC7 have a front sling hoop and the M468 has a shorter barrel than the game's weapon. Chef Brian Vrooom 20:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- This gun can't be an M468 or a 416 because both those guns have flip up sights. This rifle in game has the standard front sights of an M4. It just has the carrying handle taken off and replaced with an H&K style rear sight. Get pics of a these guns together on one screen and you can really tell the difference. Hell, I'll do it myself
Now comparing, seeing which one fits the one Niko is using.
Definitely a M4A1 Carbine, The only thing that makes even an argument for it being a 416 is the absence of the carry handle and rear site. Another thing is the cylindrical AR-15 foregrips (they arent rail covers) I have yet to see a 416 with a cylindrical foregrip. -User:AdAstra2009 I DON'T THINK SO THE 416 HAS FLIP UP SIGHTS.. ONLY THE M468 DOES. ANYWAY, ITS' SIMPLY AN M4A1 WITH CARRYING HANDLE REMOVED AND DIFFERENT SIGHT
- ^Stop writing in all capitals please. Spartan198 09:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Here is the sight on the M4. It is not a 416.ShaDow XPS
Lost and Damned Compensated Pistol
Definitely a CZ-75 style pistol,looks nothing like a BHP, besides the slide is not tall enough to be a Browning Hi-Power.
HK XM320
From the picture on the official site it looks like the grenade launcher is the XM320's predecessor the HK69. You can tell from where the stock connects to the frame. But we shall see when the game is released if the breach opens to the side or top. It might be a combination gun.
Lost and Damned Weapons
Anyone got any new, good pictures of the new weapons from the Lost and Damned? If you have any, post them.
Glock 17
It would actually make sense that the regular pistol in the game was a Glock 22. As someone pointed out, the CZ-75, a 9mm pistol, isn't as powerful as the Glock. In addition, we should call it a Glock 22 based on appearance, not specifications. For instance, previous GTA games used a Colt 1911 as the main pistol, despite it having an unrealistic 17 round magazine. Nonetheless, it was a Colt 1911, just like this is clearly a Glock 22. Hey if you get a close up of the Glock in game it says 22 on the side making it a Glock 22.
The Glock 22 does accept an optional 17 round magazine.
Just like to point out that whoever changed the Glock 22 to a Glock 17 is a dumbass and I'm changing it back. - PersonOfInterest
How am I a dumb ass? I'm going to change it right back.
Because you're completely ignoring established precedent. Stop being a dumbass. - PersonOfInterest
Well the "established precedent" is fucked up.
Established precedent on this site is to identify guns by visual standards. The texture does indeed have a "22" on the slide, so therefor that's what we go by. So it's a 22, despite the 17 round mag. Please stop the flaming, PersonOfInterest. Spartan198 18:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
The great irony of all this is that the NYPD actually uses the Glock 19. Isn't life funny sometimes? - PersonOfInterest
The even greater irony is this is Liberty City is a fictional city only based off of New York, therefor, whatever the real world city police force use does not apply to the fictional city police force. Kornflakes89 17:51, 11 April 2011 (CDT)
It might say 22 on the slide but all the other evidence in the game makes it out to be a Glock 17. The magazine capacity, the fact that everyone refers to it as a 9mm. Yet all this is being ignored because the modelers but a tiny 22 on the slide which you can't even make out in the actual game. --cool-breeze 08:13, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
- Mag capacities are often wrong in games (just look at the older GTAs which had 17-rounder 1911s!) and who refers to it as a 9mm? I can only recall one reference to it being a 9mm, and that's the hint text when you buy weapons from Little Jacob. That could easily be a goof. --MattyDienhoff 09:20, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
- I remember in the cutscenes 9mm being mentioned. --cool-breeze 10:03, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
AK-47
Could someone get a good screenshot of the AK-47 in-game and post it.
- There you go. Gunman69
Thanks for the AK-47 screenshot. It looks really good. Now, does anyone have ANY screenshots from the Lost and Damned part of the game? It'd be really cool to see some of the sawn off shotgun and the grenade launcher. I really wanna see what the new guns look like before I download The Lost and The Damned.
Does anyone have any pictures of the Desert Eagle in gameplay? If you have or get any, please post them.
About the Ithaca 37
The gun in game doesnt look very much like a stakeout at all. you shouldn't base it off of some airsoft gun. --AdAstra2009 21:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
- That's probably what the developers did.-protoAuthor
- Then I can say that's probably what they didn't do just as easily --AdAstra2009 19:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well, unless you know of another gun that looks like the in-game gun, it really IS most likely what the developers did, despite what you think. I mean, just look at the two photos. They are almost exactly the same. -Gunman69 19:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- Then I can say that's probably what they didn't do just as easily --AdAstra2009 19:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- That's probably what the developers did.-protoAuthor
the gun is side ejecting, so it can't be an ithica. ithicas eject from the bottom.
- In Far Cry 2, the Ithaca 37 ejects from side too.
- and so it does in a fuckton of other games so thats not really an issue.
AK vs M4
Okay, so in GTA IV you've got the AK-47 and M4A1 to choose from, but which is best? Well, the AK seems to have more power, which makes sense, and the M4 is more accurate, which again makes sense. But really, which is a better rifle to use overall?--M14fanboy 20:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think the M4 has a better rate of fire but i'm not sure.-Oliveira 20:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks to whoever got those kick-ass screenshots of the snipers and desert eagle and the Micro-Uzi. Those shots are pretty damn awesome.
- No problem :-) -Gunman69 20:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
- Believe it or not, the AK-47 and the M4A1 do the same damage in SP, and the M4A1 does more in multiplayer. (I know for sure because I've seen the values) Meanwhile, the M4A1 can shoot farther than the AK, which is obviously inaccurate. --MattyDienhoff 11:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Inaccurate?! you say a 5.56 mm with AR mechanic has a shorter engage range then a russian-made weapon intended to mass-production? the M4 shoots circa 600 meters in real life, and it's a carbine. The M16 hits 800. the ak doesn't hit anything over 150 meters. anyway, I saw values too, and they say are identical, but they're not. The AK has a bit more stopping power, and the M4 is more accurate, has lighter recoil and more action range.
I would go for the M4 later in the game.
The M4 isn't meant or even used for 600 yards. Thats the M16, the M4 is good for about 400.--FIVETWOSEVEN 19:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
WTF?
- I can't seem to get a copy of this game that doesn't freeze up sometimes. I've tried 5 different copies on 2 different 360's and they all froze at some point. I even went and tracked down a brand new copy and it still froze. I'm getting sick and tired of having to do missions over because the freezes before I can save-S&Wshooter 07:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- Hm. I know there were freezing issues around the launch of the PS3 version due to network load problems, but those were cleared up. Is it possible both the 360s were having disc or hard drive issues? Vangelis 15:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
- Nope. one was a brand new Elite and the other one was in good condition-S&Wshooter
Heckler & Koch MP5A3
One of the screenshots from the beta version of the game depict Niko holding a Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with it's stock extended. However, this weapon was removed from the final version of the game, and replaced by the MP-10 .
- MP5A3 should be removed -it is not a "non player weapon" it is a weapon that is not even in the game so it is irrelevant. --AdAstra2009 01:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
- I agree. These weapons aren't counted in any of the other GTA games, so why should we start here? I also think putting in the other weapons that are only in the artwork is irrelevant as well. -Gunman69 19:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
- MP5A3 should be removed -it is not a "non player weapon" it is a weapon that is not even in the game so it is irrelevant. --AdAstra2009 01:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
actualy it is in the game in the loading seqwince of the game it shows a picture of to police officers one with a SPAS-12 and another with a MP-5 --Armyguy277 18:16, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Gay Tony weapons
on the official website it appears there will also be an Automag. the AA12 is ejecting green shotgun shells in the trailer, and is shown to be firing Frag12 rounds in the Weazel News special on gun crime in Liberty City.
ok just a complete list for people not looking at the main page for some reason? (feel free to correct it) .44 AMT AUTOMAG auto assault 12 shotgun (explosive rounds avalible too that are unrealistic) FN P90 with suppressor gold plated UZI M249 SAW and a DSR-1
How are exploding shotgun shells unrealistic? the company that makes the AA12 makes them, they're called FRAG12 rounds.
ok let me clear that up their realistic but in game their not i mean its makes a dent the size of a person in the side door of a taxi but the taxi is relatively undamaged including the occupant and the explosions are litarly explosions about 4 ft in diameter
That sounds so awesome! -Gunman69 15:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
- Trust me... it is. Spartan198 05:57, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
its is but just when noting it on this site i mean its unrealistic
In TBoGT, Green shells indicate explosive rounds, red are standard. And dispite what the article says, the "Advanced Sniper" does not fire explosive round - Primevil
- No, you're right, it doesn't. If that hasn't yet been removed, I'll do so now. Spartan198 22:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
My mistake. It does in fact fire explosive rounds, but they are only available in muliplayer.
Actually you can obtain exploding Sniper rounds but only Via cheat codes and here it is, courtesy of www.gta4.net Explosive Sniper (NEW!) Makes the sniper rifles fire explosive rounds. 486-555-2526 (TBOGT ONLY)
Gay Tony FN P90
Is the P90 in The Ballad of Gay Tony a FN PS90 converted to full-auto?--SB2296 16:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think so. The barrel on the PS90 is longer and thinner than the one in the game. My guess is it's a suppressor, but we won't find out until the game is released. -Gunman69
yea its a suppressor more of a "thock" sound than anything -scarecrow
It is a supressor, and it is not removeable, contrarey to the article - Primevil
An interesting note on this gun is that, even though Luis cannot use it for drive bys, in later Drug Wars missions his friends can be seen firing it one handed.--Westernman1987 12:16, 27 April 2011 (CDT)
old gun
what i don't understand is why the armourers or people who decide what guns go on the game chose such an out of date pistol. the AMC Automag had stopped prodution ages before the new millenium so why decide to put it in a modern day game, the gun would have been more appropriate for GTA Vice city or Vc Stories since they were set in the mid 80's.
- It's because the Automag looks like it could take a man's head off even if you miss-S&Wshooter 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- You know, I pride myself on trying to be clever, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a better response than that. -protoAuthor 00:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
- I thought so too, so I just modded the gun to be a Colt Python on the PC version. Not *exactly* a common weapon, but a hell of a lot more common than the Automag. --QueenSasha24 (talk) 13:01, 16 November 2012 (EST)
Ah the old adage of "I'm not a good shot but this shoots REALLY big bullets" (courtesy of Hellboy) if that were the case why not a S&W500? the biggest production handgun cartridge. though it only holds 5 shots which many would get angry over in a videogame.
- I'm guessing its because the Automag just looks cool. The S&W 500 just looks like a regular revolver. -Gunman69 02:32, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
- Because it's the gun Charles Bronson used in Death Wish 3 to kill hundreds. And Clint Eastwood used in one of the Dirty Harry movies to kill even more hundreds. In other words, it's a badass pistol and deserves to be in the game.--Oliveira 16:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
On a badass scale of 1 to 10, it hits 11. Need more be said? User:Mcguinness
- Bronson used a Wildey in Death Wish 3, not an Automag-S&Wshooter 00:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
- Damm. I guess we now need a Wildey in this Game too so we can dual wield a Wildey and an Automag in each hand.--Oliveira 18:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
- That would be pretty bitchin'. The Wildey is a huge pistol, even to a guy like me (when I hold a S&W M500 it doesn't look that big), so duel wielding would probably be a bad idea-S&Wshooter 22:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Old or not, this thing is unreal when shooting through windshields. Most other guns in-game (including the M4 and AK) take a few shots to punch through, but the Auto Mag can do it in one. Spartan198 11:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
- That sounds awesome! I gotta get this game. :) -Gunman69 23:56, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
- For sure. The gunfights in it are unreal, one bank heist mission clearly takes influence from the shootout scene in Heat, and it's arguably just as intense. Also, in what other game can you pull off crazy shit like this? --MattyDienhoff 03:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
- Definite five stars on that one. And on a side note, the improved driving physics (especially with sports cars) really make a lot of difference with maneuvers like the reverse 180s you pulled off there. Spartan198 10:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Glock issue
I believe we should go back to calling the in-game Glock a 17 because it is described as "9mm" in the weapons shops and Little Jacob's car, plus when Johnny calls Jim (TLAD only) for a weapon, he calls the Glock a "9mm". Now, it has been previously mentioned that it should be called a 22 due to the markings, but I think we should go by specifications. If we go by appearances, for example, that means non-Russian made AK-47s (AIMS, Type 56, MpiKM, Zastava M70, etc.) would simply be "AK-47s" as in the ones made in Izhmesh and Tula, and all AR-15 knockoffs would have to be classified as "M16"s or "M4"s rather than Bushmasters, DPMS, Diemaco C7/C8, Rock River Arms, etc. -KLR
- Ok, well if we went on specifications, we wouldn't be able to identify half the weapons in previous GTA games. The 1911s, the M16 w/ 60 round magazines, the over and under shotgun that functions like a pump. All of these would have to be changed if we went by specifications. RockStar obviously based the Glock in the game off of a Glock 22, it is just misidentified as a 9mm. This wouldn't be the first time a weapon was incorrectly referred to in a game. It's the same issue if a revolver fires 7 rounds, when its clearly a 6-shot. It's still the same gun, the makers just screwed up a bit. So we're not going to call this a Glock 17. This issue has been argued to death on several websites. It's based off of a Glock 22, therefore thats what it is, regardless of its "specification". -Gunman69 04:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
- A 7 shot revolver is a bad example. I have one and it's called a S&W 686+P-S&Wshooter 22:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
- I mean a revolver that is clearly six rounds, like a Colt DS. Often times you'll see that it fired seven rounds in a movie, but it only holds six. This is a common error in movies, when the # of rounds fired doesn't meet the specifications. Like if the Colt DS fired seven rounds, that doesn't automatically mean its a S&W 686+P. See what I'm saying? -Gunman69 00:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
I discovered something sad while discussing this last week. While playing this game with a friend of mine, who considers himself a 'heavy' gamer (whatever the hell that means- i'm NOT a gamer), he referred to the in game glock as a 9mm (though he just said "9"). I corrected him, saying the glock 22 was a .40 caliber pistol. He look at me, and asks, "What the fucks a .40?". Going by this, might I suggest the develepors call it a 9mm because many gamers don't know what a .40 S&W is? Or is my friend just a bigger idiot than i've ever given him credit for?--TheDon 10:56, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
If it says 22 on the slide, it's a 22 whether or not the in-game characters refer to it incorrectly. Simple as that. Chitoryu12 07:49, 18 April 2012 (CDT)
removed weapon
on one of the trailers of the lost & damned called meet the gang, find the video on youtube and if u pause at 0:17 theres a spas 12 look alike with an m4 buttstock. probably a removed weapon like the mp5a3 and being replaced by the sawn-off or street sweeper.
its not removed, its also just not a new weapon. its the regular semi auto shotgun with a new stock.
yea in my version all the "combat" shotguns in the vans and stores are the old ones but the one from the cheat codes are ones with an m4 stock. oh and its a mossenberg 590 not a spas -scarecrow
Its a Remington 1100 i believe, but it can also be found in certain places with the M4 stock. Only while Playing Lost and Damned though.
It's like that shotgun that Switek had in Miami Vice (the movie), it can be obtained in TLAD with the advanced gun cheat (486-555-0100)
No its the semi auto from the regular game with a different stock.
Names
The names they've chosen for the new weapons crack me up, they're generic to the point of nonsense. "Assault SMG", "Advanced MG", "Advanced Sniper"...
There is only one machine gun, so why did they feel the need to add 'advanced' to the name? And it irritates me how people, gamers usually, refer to sniper rifles simply as "snipers", it's like saying "drivers" when you mean "vehicles". --219.90.213.180 10:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Behind Enemy Lines movie reference
Did anyone else notice that in the very begginning of the game, Nikko looks and dresses like the Serbian sniper who tries to kill Owen Wilson in Behind Enemy Lines? Nikko is also Serbian.- ArmoredMason619
- Never noticed, but you're right. They are similar in appearance. Spartan198 04:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
- You're not the only one who noticed. You can also buy a blue track top from the Russian shop that looks almost identical to the one worn by the sniper in that picture. --MattyDienhoff 07:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Awesome page
I júst want to say that the images look so cool,they make me think about a computer animated movie.Seriously,if you know anyone who hasnt heard about GTA ever,show him/her this article and ask if its a videogame or animated movie or else.Really,nice job on the pictures.
Remington 1100 / 11-87
The long barrel, long magazine tube, and the thing along the top of the barrel (I don't know what that's called) all jump out at you and scream "Remington 1100 TAC4". Those are very specific features of a very specific model. To say it's an 11-87 because of the length of the forearm and nothing else ignores A: the features that are only on the 1100 TAC4 and not on any other model, and B: the forearm doesn't even look like a proper Remington forearm. Thoughts? PersonOfInterest 1:53 PM, 2 April 2010
Shotguns aren't my specialty but I believe that thing on top of the barrel is called a "heat shield", that is you are refering to something on the barrel like that of the old Winchester Trench Gun. Am I right? --Camden Hennis 14:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
No, it's not a heat shield. A heat shield is perforated sheet metal wrapped around the barrel. The thing I'm talking about, I can't remember what it's called, but it's function is to provide rigidity to the barrel. Revolvers have them too. - PersonOfInterest
- Ribbing? I agree it's a TAC4, this image matches it best. http://img22.imageshack.us/i/1100006.jpg/ - Gunmaster45
- Is that some kind of 12 gauge stripper clip? - PersonOfInterest
No, just a shell holder--Recon42 15:05, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
DLC is no longer XBOX360 Exclusive
As title says, someone need to delete "Xbox360 exclusive" from line "Xbox 360 Exclusive Downloadable Content". I would do that if I could, but without account I can't.
- Done. Thanks for taking the time to mention it. :) --MattyDienhoff 16:54, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
AR-15?
Anyone else notice that the "M4A1" in the game seems to have a barrel longer than 14.5 in., and that it "steps up" instead of stepping down?
- Looks a bit like the Diemaco C8, with black furniture. --Sangheili1155 14:56, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
CZ 75
Why did someone replace the picture of the lost & the damned cz 75? the first one suited it better.
Screenshots
This page is in urgent need of actual screencaps rather than PR stuff. I'll do my best, and as and when my new PC arrives I should be able to replace PS3 screencaps with higher-quality PC ones. Assuming I can be bothered dealing with signing up to the eighty-three different things PC GTAIV wants you to sign up to before it'll actually save. >:( Evil Tim 11:03, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
- Cool, games like this deserve proper pages. BTW FYI, the M4 has a strange barrel. See here. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 11:32, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
Carbine Rifle
Whoever wrote in that calling the M4 a Carbine Rifle a contradiction isn't really correct. A rifle can be referred to any long arm that has a rifled barrel. An M4 might be a carbine of a full size M16, but it is also a rifle, so it can be called a rifle or a carbine. It's just a bit weird to say in terms of combinations of words to be called carbine rifle. Excalibur01 01:01, 9 October 2011 (CDT)
- Oh, that's what I mean by "in the strictest sense." In the strictest sense, "rifle" is a specific class of long gun with defined qualities. In a more general sense, it's anything with a rifled barrel (in an even more general sense, it's anything that looks like a rifle, which is why you can say things like "laser rifle" in fiction). So, strictly speaking "carbine rifle" is a contradiction, but not more generally speaking. I was rewriting because it used to just say it was a contradiction, which, as you say, isn't true. Evil Tim 16:44, 9 October 2011 (CDT)
Carbine Rifle = Rifle-caliber Carbine. My 2 cents. You may now take shots at me. --HashiriyaR32 17:21, 9 October 2011 (CDT)
- But 5.56mm is an intermediate calibre, not a rifle calibre. So if it's that, then it is a contradiction, har har. :D Evil Tim 17:30, 9 October 2011 (CDT)
Glock 21 style wide slide
Take a good look at this pic:
Now compare the slide of the actual Glock 22, which can be done by going to this link and using the rotation feature so the barrel of the gun on the computer is pointed directly at you: http://us.glock.com/products/model/g22
...to the slide of the Glock 21, which can be done by going to this link and again rotating the pic of the gun til the barrel hole is face you: http://us.glock.com/products/model/g21
Notice the very wide slide on the 21 compared to the 22, and then compare the 21 slide to the pic of that cilivian holding his Glock 22! Yes you will see it actually has a Glock 21 slide! I have decided to include this important note on the page. ColdSteel (talk) 08:25, 27 January 2013 (EST)
Glock 22 with 17 rounds
Actually, it's not incorrect for the .40 caliber Glock 22 to hold 17 rounds. The official product page for the G22 on glock.com indicates the firearm in fact CAN optionally hold 17 rounds. Click on this link and check out where it says "Magazine Capacity": http://us.glock.com/products/model/g22
Here's the catch, the graphic for the Glock 22 in GTA IV does not show the magazine extended to 17 rounds with a 2 round extension cap on the bottom of the magazine. Therefore it still is erroneous, and I have clarified this on the page. ColdSteel (talk) 08:39, 27 January 2013 (EST)
Incomplete
I've noticed this page has been for several years in an "incomplete" stage. Which I don't understand. All the weapons have been identified, and they have screencaps. I don't see what else needs to be done to render it "complete". - User:1morey March 2, 2013 10:56 AM (EST)
The reason its still labeled incomplete is because some of the sections only have renders and no actual in game screenshots. If you can take some then go ahead otherwise I may be able to get a screenshot program next month.Mr.Ice (talk) 11:19, 2 March 2013 (EST)
Another thing, I've found there's graffiti of a galil in some apartment. Rocketwarthog (talk) 00:33, 9 April 2013 (EDT)