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Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3: Difference between revisions
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:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST) | :::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST) | ||
== Guns in S03 E06 == | |||
One gun looks like a Walther P38. | |||
Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9. | |||
The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe... | |||
Revision as of 23:46, 20 November 2012
Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"
The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":
M16A1
B.J. (Daniel Roebuck) is seen holding an M16A1 on Chase (Josh Stewart), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
Smith & Wesson Model 29
B.J. also carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 as his sidearm.
AKMS
An AKMS-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
Additional Screenshots
When did Carol get that gun? Excalibur01 (talk) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
- I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --AdAstra2009 (talk) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- Antediluvial (talk) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
- I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)
- TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)
- In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.
I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. Kepiblanc (talk) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?
- I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)
- OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -MT2008 (talk) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
Questionable Production Values
Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
- The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --Funkychinaman (talk) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
- The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.Bristow8411 (talk) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
- I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
- Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- Scattergun 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
WASR Rails
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is this model made by UTG. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
CGI muzzle flashes?
I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
- Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --cool-breeze (talk) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
several soldiers had M4A1's
Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --Blueboy1600 (talk) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard
The Governor's Pistol
The Governor (David Morrissey) carries a Beretta 92FS Inox as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --Mmarlon brando (talk) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)
Update: Hi-res pics here and here that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --Mmarlon brando (talk) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
The Usage of Silencers in Season 3
Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.
First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)
Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically not subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically not subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. Kepiblanc (talk) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
- You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. The Kaptain (talk) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)
- If improvised silencers were really that easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a Glock 17 or a Beretta 92FS like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.
- Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
- I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. DKS01 (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)
- Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
- I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?
- Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. Kepiblanc (talk) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)
- You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)
- Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the Nagant M1895 revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. Kepiblanc (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)
Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)
Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc.
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. Spartan198 (talk) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST) we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. Excalibur01 (talk) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)
- Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --Blueboy1600 (talk) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)
- I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands Insertjjs
I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture Excalibur01 (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)
- I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. Kepiblanc (talk) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)
- As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. Kepiblanc (talk) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)
- While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)
Guns in S03 E06
One gun looks like a Walther P38.
Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.
The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe...