User talk:Evil Tim: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 15:11, 13 August 2012

Earlier discussions: User Talk:Evil Tim/Archive 1

What are the rules

Sorry to drag you into this; you're simply an admin whose talk page isn't locked. Simple question: what on earth happened here:

http://www.imfdb.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mutant_Chronicles&action=history

My notes on the talk page for the were a genuine and good-faith attempt to contribute and they were deleted without comment. I presume I've offended some obscure house rule of yours, but regardless, it's a pretty arrogant and unilateral thing to do on the part of MoviePropMaster2008, and hardly the way to encourage people to get involved.

Gun Brand Pages

Yo. So now that at least 2 admins have contributed to the new "Gun Brand Pages" is it safe to say the idea is sticking? I want to keep working on these but I dont want to spend all this time just to have them deleted. I'm still new to this site so whats the procedure for getting this approved by the powers that be? Happy holidays, Zackmann08 08:06, 24 December 2011 (CST)

Thanks for your help with the Heckler & Koch page. Any feedback? You like the format? --Zackmann08 14:46, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Kampfpistole

Thanks for your remarks, they make perfect sense. I did not check my e-mail in the last few minutes so I was totally unaware that somebody else (you) was working on the same page. This way we can keep eachother busy, right? My apologies for driving you crazy!

Reason that I wanted to rename 'Walther Kampfpistole' to a more generic 'Kampfpistole' is that today I read an about the history of this gun. Originally a flare pistol ("Heeresmodell 1934"), from 1943 onwards it was produced by both Walther and Erma as ‘Kamppistole’ (no further numeric nomination) having a big 'Z' on the side indicating that it had 'Zuege' (German for grooves) so that small explosive charges could be fired more accurately. The article did not indicate an original designing manufacturer so I figured removing ‘Walther’ would be the right thing to do. If you say that Walther is indeed the company where it all started, then I can only agree to keep matters as they are.

As for the LP-42, I see what you mean. Problem is that ‘Kampfpistole’ is actually a very generic name simply meaning ‘battle pistol’ (just like ‘assault rifle’ may apply to AK-47 and M16 alike). In this case, both guns are correctly referred to as ‘Kampfpistole’ but they are of completely different design. As such, I would suggest to remove the ‘Kampfpistole Z’ image from the LP-42 page, leave matters as they are and not merge, wouldn’t you agree?

By the way, what do you mean by “please don't edit war, it doesn't help”? I am not aware I have been changing anything else today than the Kampfpistole. Take care, let me know what you think and Merry Christmas, --PeeWee055 10:36, 24 December 2011 (CST)

Good to see your remarks, be my guest to make changes; I will stay away from the subject for a few days hahaha Not sure of you are aware, but 'Leuchtpistole' is yet another generic nomination. It's German for 'Flare Pistol' so I think it would not be correct to put all 'Leuchtpistols' on one page, not in the least because the designs are very different. Take care, --PeeWee055 10:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

Spammer

Since you are one of the most active admins on this site, here is a spammer I consider banning: Grishacka1929. Highlighted in blue is his contribution. - Kenny99 18:52, 24 December 2011 (CST)

This guys is crazy

He's a raving asshat. He's another Liam, save for the fact he does know his 1911s. But he's also being a jerk. Okay, so M1911 is the MILITARY designation, the Colt Govt. Model is the company's name for the pistols they sold to the public. M1911 is used by a lot of people as a generic description for that type of pistol. When I say Commercial M1911, I mean a commercial version of the M1911. There is nothing actually erroneous about that description. But think about it. People KNOW the difference between the M1911 and the M1911A1, they know that there were improvements made between the wars. Just calling them the Govt Model doesn't help people to ultimately get to know the difference. Boy, I sure attract a lot of guys who hate on me. This guy needs anger management. Now if we need to update the descriptions, we can. On his conduct, you were right. His rage makes him an unacceptable element on IMFDB. Doesn't matter how much he knows. If he becomes that abusive that quickly, then he is not the personality type that moves IMFDB forward. Thanks for the note. I think I (we as in you're a mod too) need to come up with a code of conduct that warns people to be polite. There are sites out there that are so deathly afraid of offending someone's sensibilities or their freedom of speech, that they are often held hostage by people who promote bad behavior. We welcome corrections when they are done in the right way. MoviePropMaster2008 03:20, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Se7en

Sorry, but this page is really kind of ruined when the actor's name is mentioned. It's not really vital on this page to know who the actor was that used the weapon is on this page as much as what character used it. I understand that you disagree with a lot of edits that a particular user makes, but I'll be on the case to let the user know if the edits go overboard. --Ben41 04:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Kampfpistole Z

Any objections? Sounds reasonable. (I hadn't really been following the Kampfpistole saga, I sort of just stumbled into it.) --Funkychinaman 16:08, 27 December 2011 (CST)

Salt featured article

Can you change the Salt entry on the featured article template from a SIG SG553 to a P556 SWAT with a SG550 lower please, as it is locked to me. I recently changed it on the Salt page, but featured article just came up and noticed it was now wrong. --commando552 05:04, 29 December 2011 (CST)

Dead links

Hey man, I've been working on converting a number of pages from the list format over to a wikitable. I've noticed that there are some cases where a movie is listed, but there is no page for that movie. For example, if you look at the M1911A1, about halfway down the Films section Nowhere to Run (1993) is listed, but there is no page for it. Should it be removed when I convert it to a table?

(As a side note, I'm not actually editing the M1911 page, that was just the quickest example I could find.) --Zackmann08 15:52, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Gotcha. That's super helpful! Thanks.--Zackmann08 23:00, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009

Yeah, did some reseach, this game is available in Europe, bt it is under a different name (Same game, different name), it is called "Cabela's Dangerous Adventures". And it is available for the PS2, PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360 (The page is for the Xbox/PS3 version). Don't know if you have an Xbox or a PS3, so that is up to you, and it is dirt cheap by now. - User:1morey January 15, 2012 12:40 PM (EST)

Copyrights

Hey man. I was just updating a page and I noted that the "copyrights" link at the bottom that shows up any time you edit a page is now red. When I clicked on it I noticed that you deleted the page. Just wanted to make sure you were aware that every time you edit a page or a discussion post, a link to that page shows up on the bottom. Any issue with me putting up a redirect on the old Copyright page that takes you to the "General disclaimer" page? --Zackmann08 10:18, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Copyright page

There's still time... (Seriously though, is there any legal reason why TOS's and disclaimers have to be a solid block of text? During my newspaper days, we avoided solid blocks of text whenever possible and cringed whenever we saw them in other papers. It's just telling readers "Don't read this.") --Funkychinaman 12:36, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Manufacturer Template

I created a template for the manufacturer pages (Manufacturer Template). I am going to add a link to it from the [[Category:Manufacturer]] page. I would love any input from you and other admins on it. I want to make it as straight forward as possible. Thanks! --Zackmann08 13:36, 19 January 2012 (CST)

GLOCK

GLOCK (in all caps) is the official name of the company as stated on their website. --Ben41 06:31, 21 January 2012 (CST)

Re: NSV

Hi. Thanks for the info. It is strange though, why would KBP have an image of the Kord on their site, which is made by Degtyarev? --bozitojugg3rn4ut 11:27, 22 January 2012 (CST)

I am totally confused now... >< Please delete the pic then, I reupload it with a correct name if and when I will make a page for the Degtyarev compnay. Thanks. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 12:56, 22 January 2012 (CST)

no

Idontthinksotim

I don't this is actually directed to you. It's a catchphrase from the American series Home Improvement. --Funkychinaman 04:41, 21 February 2012 (CST)

Top Shot - Season 3

Hey man. I saw your edit on Top Shot - Season 3. While I get what your saying that revolvers technically are pistols... That distinction isn't made elsewhere on the site. For example, the NCIS and Burn Notice pages, some of the most popular on the site, list Pistols and Revolvers. It seems like an unnecessary distinction to make... I respect my elders and know you are an admin, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest or anything but it just seems unnecessary to me, particularly since that isn't the way it is done elsewhere on the site. Thoughts? --Zackmann08 15:44, 23 February 2012 (CST)

IMHO, it seems like Pistols and Revolvers fall under the overall heading of Handguns... "When distinguished as a subset of handguns, a pistol is a handgun with a chamber that is integral with the barrel, as opposed to a revolver, wherein the chamber is separate from the barrel as a revolving cylinder." Webster gives a similar definition. I take back what I said previously. Based on a little more research it seems that a "pistol" always refers to a Handgun where the chamber is integrated in the barrel. For example, a Derringer would be a pistol despite not being semi-auto. Any handgun with a rotating cylinder would be a revolver and they would all fall under the overall category of Handguns. --Zackmann08 16:48, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Thats actually really interesting! Never knew you guys defined it differently over there. :-) --Zackmann08 11:24, 24 February 2012 (CST)

SOCOM 4

So I'm in the middle of leaving a message for Commandoninja137 (the guy who created the SOCOM 4 page, if were calling 'that' a page...) warning him that the page was about to be deleted because of his lack of effort. I had JUST added the nuke tag to the page right before i posted the message on his discussion page. When i posted it with the [[SOCOM 4]] tag, the link came up in red. I'm thinking "huh, I musta mispelled it"... but no. You beat me to the punch and got rid of the page literally seconds after I nuked it. GOOD MANNNN!!! :-) --Zackmann08 15:29, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I'm kind of surprised the page lasted as long as it did. I wanted to just delete the stuff copied from Wikipedia, but then the page would be completely empty and would look even worse. --Funkychinaman 15:45, 25 February 2012 (CST)

Yes, I know. I grew suspicious because it was a little too... nice. I cleaned up and consolidated the dead links a few months back, and I don't think there's a single SOCOM game here that could be considered complete. I know they're console only, but still...

DVD Screenshots

I mostly have DVD and the Blue-Ray I have is a Blue-Ray/DVD combo pack so I'm set. What I'm wondering though is can you get screencaps from things like Hulu and Netflix? --Yo dawg 111 09:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)

Re: G36C

It indeed looks similar, although the nomenclature appears to be different. Anyways, I will add it and if someone can find a better match, he will change it. Thanks. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 12:52, 27 February 2012 (CST)

Masterkey in Homefront

Hi. Please change the Masterkey's gun image on the Homefront page to this one, as this has a slightly better quality, and it is visible that the rifle is actually a KAC SR-16, not a Colt M4.

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

Masterkey shotgun mounted on a KAC SR-16 rifle - 12 Gauge

Thank you. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 07:55, 25 March 2012 (CDT)

Grenades

DAMITTTTTT. Sorry about that mate. I will be more careful. Frankly I didn't know there was such thing as an Airsoft grenade... Thanks for alerting me to the mistake. :-)

While I'm writing to ya, I might as well mention the AK Gallery. I totally get what you are saying about guns like the Dragunov and will 100% defer to your judgment. I felt like it was worth putting them on the page since they look similar but if you don't think they belong, I totally understand. It's all about what will be most useful in identifying the guns. :-) --Zackmann08 11:23, 27 March 2012 (CDT)

Doom Nuke tag

I put the nuke tag due to this subsection of the rules. http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Anime:_Rules_.26_Restrictions Also the page was previously deleted on the same grounds. --AdAstra2009 23:42, 30 March 2012 (CDT)

The Dark Knight

A) Seriously? You've never seen The Dark Knight? B) Yes, that is a bigger spoiler, I'd tell you more, but I don't want to spoil anything for you, C) Come on, seriously? --Funkychinaman 02:11, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

Which is the reason why I removed the reference in the page. That particular user who wrote those captions constantly gives away important plot points for no good reason. The user has been warned. --Ben41 03:19, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

This is Glock17gen4, why was I blocked?

I have done nothing wrong, and you blocked me and reverted my edits. Here's the reason you left: "(Abusing multiple accounts: Hey there Burt, you're still banned, go away.)" My name isn't Burt, it's Danny. I tryed to use the Glock17gen4 account to contact you about this but it wouldnt allow me to leave a message on your talk page, I would like the block reverted please, as I dont know who this "Burt" is and have done nothing wrong. I really think you have me confused with someone else...PS: do you have email we can discuss this on? SaferSephiroth 20:40, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

What's all this then?

http://www.imfdb.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bunni&redirect=no#I_need_you_or_another_admins_help.2C_my_other_account_was_blocked_wrongfully. Is this the usual suspect? bunni 17:19, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

I am not this Burt Reynolds Mustache or Person of Interest guy, please quit blocking me!

Dont you check for IPs before you make such decisions? I am not this character you think I am. Please unblock me! The only reason I changed the gun on the PD page is I was going off of what the GE 007 page said. If that wasn't right then I am sorry, I did not know. I just know all the classic guns in PD are based off Goldeneye 007's guns. I was trying to keep the page accurate, is there anything wrong with that? RugerLord 14:25, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

ET, do whatever you think is best. bunni 14:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

FlaK

Very sorry. I've heard of what you're talking about, but thought it was abbreviated differently.

Read the rest on that bunni guys page

Hey listen, I'm sorry about messing up your page, but seriously dude. You didnt listen to me when I was nice, and I'm sorry about Rockwolf's page too. I have no issue with anyone on this site except you because you keep wrongfully banning me after I helped out. I contacted other admins and the sites owner about this. And you still wouldnt give me a fair chance, so yes, I'm human, I went off on you because I had had enough. I like guns and Goldeneye, I really wanna help with this site, but if I keep being harassed, then how can I do that? PS: I also didnt take to kindly to you and your friend refering to Irish people as "Liams". I'm Irish, and that offends me. ColdSteel 20:48, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Ok done

It wont allow me to change on the Goldeneye 007 main page but I put the upload on the Walther PP series page and the Goldeneye talk page, it's a genuine .32 ACP PPK the same as Bond uses, and I think you'll like the pic quality alot. ColdSteel 21:21, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Blocked User

The poster was obnoxious and irritating. I just felt like if he comes back he doesn't need to get the change to be an jackass again. Meant to block him earlier, but then I forgot. --Jcordell 13:59, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

Ellipses

You're right, there's no reason to correct them, but is there a reason I shouldn't? Seriously, if there's a reason, I'll stop. --Cheywoodward2 20:32, 12 April 2012 (CDT)

Alright, I will stop be such so pedantic about my ellipses. I may forget once or twice. If I end up doing so you my have my apologies. Also, your writing style makes you seem like a very pleasant and knowledgeable person.

Re: Trolling

The whole argument of the section didn't have anything to do with improving the page in question. Yet I'm being the target of moderation. How more unfair can it get? --Masterius 09:25, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

That would be a fair argument if the 'not-forum' rule was enforced and the only thing one could find on Talk Pages is weapons and accessories identification and nothing else. But that's just not true. And a simple commentary among many others won't suddenly cause IMFDB to collapse. --Masterius 09:37, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

I did not want to go into the whole political debate on who's right and who's wrong. Are you sure there were no points that could have gotten a rise out of me? --Masterius 09:45, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

OK, OK, Mr. Wolf was right. You won. So long, and thanks for all the fish. --Masterius 09:49, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

Sorting Out User names

Thanks for taking care of that. When I don't see any further contributions right after a new user account is made, I tend to be more suspicious. --Ben41 16:29, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

Bot

Have you notified the other admins? Are they aware of the situation? It's hard to tell who's online sometimes, but I'll do what I can. --Funkychinaman 16:55, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

So it's an American bot. Anyway, I'll do what I can. I'll probably be monitoring for another hour, then I have to step out. I should be back on later tonight though. --Funkychinaman 17:06, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

Glock 18C

Hey man, so I just noticed that some guy has once again tried to replace the Glock 18C image with his own. You had previously reverted his upload... Rather then reverting it myself, I thought I would mention it to you... Picture in Question. --Zackmann08 14:11, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

FNP

Hey man. Some guy just made a bunch of weird edits to the FNP page. He changed all the specifications for the FNP-45 to values that are not correct (based on both wikipedia and the FN website). He also added a ransom show that has no page on the site. Do you mind rolling back his edits so I don't have to correct each mistake? Thanks! --Zackmann08 17:37, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

Chronological Order

I'd have to dig it up in the forums but I was told by a Mod a couple years back that if the page has a relatively low number of firearms (20 or less) to use chronological order. --AdAstra2009 13:36, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

Forum

I made your forum account a moderator. bunni 15:44, 21 April 2012 (CDT)

Devil May Cry.

Aite. No worries. :-) --Zackmann08 11:04, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

Nukes...

I'm sorry. You're right. :-( Let me explain where I'm coming from (just so you don't think I'm trolling the site looking for pages to nuke). I am in the process of trying to convert every gun page from the list format to table format. As I go through, whenever I find an entry that is missing a date I go to that entries page. If that page has an "incomplete" tag, is far from complete and hasn't had any work done in a longgg time, I have been nuking them. As was mentioned in the forum, these are (for the most part), drive-by creations. Pages made by a user who was here for a few weeks and then never returned.

But, at the end of the day, you are correct. I will tone it down on the nuke tags and reserve them for REALLY poor pages. Sorry. --Zackmann08 09:52, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

re: M57

Yeah, and looks like he added a bunch of other Zastava guns that were not featured in anything yet. bozitojugg3rn4ut 16:02, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

Infoboxes

Hey. So first off, a disclaimer, I am posting the following message for each of the Admins so don't think I'm spamming. Just want to get input from all of you. I have been working on a number of infoboxes for different pages (Template:Infobox Movie, Template:Infobox TV, Template:Infobox Video Game). I have already gotten some help from Bunni who installed an additional add-on to facilitate the templates. I would love to get some feedback from you (and other admins) regarding these. Do you like the format? Are there things you would like changed? Should additional information be added? The nice thing is that with the add-on that Bunni installed, you do not have to provide all the information for the infobox. Any variables left blank will simply not be printed.

Finally, I would like to see how you feel about my adding these to pages. I have gotten positive feedback from a number of users (including at least 3 admins) but before I add this to more than a dozen or so pages (which I have done for testing purposes) I want to really get full permission. I know that sweeping changes are a MAJOR no-no without full admin approval. Check out the thread in the forum (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1942). I look forward to hearing your feedback! :-) --Zackmann08 11:15, 9 May 2012 (CDT)

"The following weapons..."

Oops.... I haven't exactly been consistent on that one. Thanks for letting me know. Sorry about that. --Zackmann08 16:57, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

That makes sense. I will make sure to do that from now on. Sorry (again...) --Zackmann08 12:12, 15 May 2012 (CDT)

RE5

No, it was with an AI Sheva. I cannot play co-op because the online part of G4WL games does not work in Slovakia. BTW, there was an Ithaca and a Skorpion in her inventory, but no ammo for them, so probably that is why she went with the Beretta. (I also put grenades and mines to her inventory, so that she cannot pick up ammo.) - bozitojugg3rn4ut 12:27, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

Minor Note

I totally get what your saying and agree. We did discuss this a while back. I have stopped removing the entry with the exception of pages that were deleted for not meeting IMFDB standards. And even then I only remove them if the media in question doesn't meet standards, not just because the page wasn't complete. In other words if the page was deleted because no one had worked on it I leave the entry but if the page was deleted because it was a Documentary or a youtube video then I do delete the entry. Thanks for staying on this! --Zackmann08 14:07, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

Image Error

I would try to upload an image to overwrite it eg. uploading something with the same file name. May be a size issue. bunni 15:48, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

GoldenEye

Hey. Thanks for taking care of GoldenEye 007 for me! What do you think of the new templates? --Zackmann08 13:46, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

Your LAW Pic

No offense, but is that a picture YOU took? Also the end cap has broken off and that particular one is a trainer (not the sub caliber trainer but a classroom trainer) MoviePropMaster2008 21:37, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

aha

Yes, that is the first model LAW, the M72. It doesn't have the metal framed front site but has a solid piece of clear plastic. When the Army demilled them, they just snapped off the plastic front plate, which makes it hard to fix because the clear plastic base (with the spring) is still in the sight base. Apparently that was done because the first pattern sights were 'night sights' and were "radioactive". That pic is still a trainer though. I will try to post a pic of the actual first pattern LAW. I have one, but like most folks, my front sight is broken. They really did some weird stuff to that LAW for the film though (pyro insert tube not withstanding). :D MoviePropMaster2008 13:56, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Thank ya!

Many thanks bud! I promise to use my powers for good. If you, or any of the other admins, ever feel I'm over stepping, please let me know. I may be an admin now, but I still defer to the more senior admins. As for the bot, it is a giant work in progress. If I actually manage to figure out how to make it work, we will get creative with the name. :-) --Zackmann08 14:39, 26 June 2012 (CDT)

Unrelated to firearms

Are you the same Evil Tim who Let's Played Castlevania 64? Kadorhal 16:42, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

RE:Stinger / Redeye

Done, does that look ok? They don't really look as alike as the SVD and PSL, think it is just the case that people seem to identify any shoulder launched missile as a Stinger when they don't know what it it. --commando552 03:33, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

Template: Screenshot

I took care of the optional argument for a page title. That was a really good idea... If you have any more ideas like that, give me a holler and I'll make um happen. --Zackmann08 13:18, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

Evil Tim?

Evil Tim? As in the lets-player? If so... FINISH GOLDENEYE DAMNIT! Also, I love you :3 --Cheers, Chris J 03:10, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Killer Uzi

It looks like this guy is the Everybody Hates Chris guy. I was going to perma-ban him just for that, but it turns out that the last guy to make that page WASN'T banned. What do you think? --Funkychinaman 07:50, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

I thought that too, but do you think he's smart enough to completely switch genres? Van tu/leavemealone/Michael Myers covered all the same pages and had the same MO with all of this accounts. --Funkychinaman 08:39, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

New User

??? You gootta be a little more specific there buddy... Not really sure who or what you're talking about... --Zackmann08 10:11, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

There are 2 people who are authorized to create new users. Myself and Bunni. Seeing as Bunni is the owner and manager of the site and that HE authorized the account, I'm pretty sure its okay. Furthermore, Chris and I have already discussed this individual and you needn't worry about him. If he does cause trouble, Chris and I will be all over it but we have spoken with the individual in question and are not worried. --Zackmann08 13:15, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

Re AKS-47

Don't we already have an image of a Type 3 AKS-47? Also, the one you're adding has a bit too much white space at the top and bottom. Evil Tim 10:07, 13 August 2012 (CDT) Okey, well I thought that the picture was a good display of a T3 underfolder. But if I cut the picture so there's less white, would it be better? --TheJoker

@@ Line 270: / Line 270: @@
 ??? You gootta be a little more specific there buddy... Not really sure who or what you're talking about... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:11, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
 :There are 2 people who are authorized to create new users. Myself and Bunni. Seeing as Bunni is the owner and manager of the site and that HE authorized the account, I'm pretty sure its okay. Furthermore, Chris and I have already discussed this individual and you needn't worry about him. If he does cause trouble, Chris and I will be all over it but we have spoken with the individual in question and are not worried. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
+==Re AKS-47==
+Don't we already have an image of a Type 3 AKS-47? Also, the one you're adding has a bit too much white space at the top and bottom. Evil Tim 10:07, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
+Okey, well I thought that the picture was a good display of a T3 underfolder. But if I cut the picture so there's less white, would it be better? --[[User:TheJoker|TheJoker]]