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Talk:SVD Dragunov: Difference between revisions
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== Additional Variants == | == Additional Variants == | ||
[[Image:SVDIronSights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD Dragunov with scope removed 7.62x54mm R]] | [[Image:SVDIronSights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD Dragunov with scope removed 7.62x54mm R]] | ||
[[Image:Airsoft Fake SVD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''AIRSOFT''' Tokyo Marui [[AK-47]] tuned with the "Dragunov Conversion Kit" to look like an SVD rifle. This conversion is popular among certain airsoft | [[Image:Airsoft Fake SVD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''AIRSOFT''' Tokyo Marui [[AK-47]] tuned with the "Dragunov Conversion Kit" to look like an SVD rifle. This conversion is popular among certain airsoft players, as it is cheaper by about 70% of what a genuine SVD rifle would cost, plus the gun is still capable of fully automatic fire.]] | ||
== The Killer == | == The Killer == | ||
Revision as of 03:41, 13 May 2012
Additional Variants
The Killer
Can anyone say for sure that the gun Chow Yun-Fat uses in The Killer is a Dragunov SVD? It looks to me more like a Romanian Romak-3 or similar. The stock doesn't look like a Dragunov SVD stock. Is anyone else 100% sure it's a Dragunov? Brandtbl 05:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
- I wrote about this on IMFDB's The Killer page. It's not an SVD at all; it's a Norinco Type 56 (AKM) assault rifle visually modified to look like an SVD. One of the armorers who worked on the movie has testified to this on a web site I used to visit; he said that they had to use a Norinco AK because they couldn't import a real SVD into Hong Kong in time to film the scene.
ATM Machine Syndrome
This article should be renamed either to "SVD" or "Dragunov sniper rifle". SVD is an acronym which, translated, means "Dragunov sniper rifle". Therefore, to say SVD Dragunov is analogous to saying "Dragunov sniper rifle Dragunov", it's redundant. --MattyDienhoff 04:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- That's what a generation of GIs/firearms authors called it (1960s-1990s). Besides SVD is "Sniper Rifle Dragunov" in Russian, so you can see the Dragunov as an addendum to the SVD name. MoviePropMaster2008 05:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova; Снаыперская Винтовка Драгунова. --184.35.26.57 21:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
- Ага, винтовка именно для снаыпэров.
- да --74.177.182.24 03:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
- lol. Not "СнаЫперская" (it sounds very funny in Russian... like red-neck slang), but "СнаЙперская".
Dragunov
The designer of SVU isn't Dragunov, it's Bondarev[1]. Thus the page will have Dragunov SVD and Bondarev SVU, unless there is a reasonable reason against. --Masterius 09:07, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Nobody has ever heard of Bondarev and all he did was re-work an existing design. Evil Tim 09:10, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- What's next, put Stoner in front of every AR-15 variant? Dragunov wasn't the exact designer of SVU, thus shouldn't be put in the name. --Masterius 09:22, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Well, it's commonly still known as the Dragunov and I don't think it's ever been called the "Bondarev SVU" (except perhaps by Bondarev himself). Googling I get 36,400 results for "Dragunov SVU" and none for "Bondarev SVU." And I had to check world.guns.ru for this (which uses neither), so it's your fault if my computer catches the clap. Evil Tim 09:30, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Googled "Dragunov SVU" and the results are wikis, Facebook and Flickr (which borrow material from wikis). None serious source calls the weapon "Dragunov SVU". It is true that designers of TsNIITochMash and TsKIB SOO aren't much known to the Western world, in comparison to the designers of IzhMash (Dragunov, Kalashnikov) and IzhMekh (Makarov, Yarygin). Does that mean they should be ignored? NO! They are still known in Russian sources. --Masterius 09:48, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- But equally no serious source calls it the Bondarev SVU. It's called the Dragunov SVU because it's the SVU version of the Dragunov rifle. Evil Tim 09:56, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Okay, a deal. Just omit the Dragunov part from the name. --Masterius 10:01, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- So, um, we'd just be calling it "short sniper rifle?" Evil Tim 10:04, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- It's called SVU, not SVDU. This isn't like AKS-74U. --Masterius 10:06, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Yeah, but it's the SVU (short sniper rifle) version of the SVD (Dragunov sniper rifle). I wouldn't say "Dragunov SVU" is an incorrect way to render what it actually is in English; Dragunov isn't being used as the name of the designer in this context, but as the name of the rifle. Evil Tim 10:19, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Sure, SVD is called Dragunov, but not SVU. It's a different weapon, a bullpup conversion of SVD. --Masterius 10:25, 9 November 2011 (CST)
- Work done. --Masterius 08:13, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- And undone. I said not to do that. Evil Tim 08:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- And why? You haven't provided the counterargument, thus I assumed you didn't disagree. BTW, looking at the page's history it appears to have been easier to just put Dragunov back into titles, than make a revert and then go on a edit spree. --Masterius 08:36, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- What I'm saying is it makes grammatical sense in English to call it Dragunov SVU. Also, my second edit was basically reverting the first, if you noticed. The one thing I keep forgetting is that clicking rollback doesn't give you an edit screen. Evil Tim 08:39, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- If it made sense, you would have seen it being confirmed by sources. And it is not. The current calling of SVU as 'Dragunov SVU' is parroting the Wikipedia's SVU page title. Even if you read the sources there, you would see no mention of 'Dragunov SVU'. Because it is incorrect. Also, the SVD variants elaborated descriptions are returned to the previous randomized state, which says otherwise. --Masterius 08:56, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- SVU just means short sniper rifle. SVU Dragunov says which short sniper rifle it is (a short Dragunov sniper rifle). This makes sense. Evil Tim 08:58, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- As I've already said: should we put Stoner in front of every AR-15 variant, and Kalashnikov in front every AK-47 variant? SVU isn't simply short SVD (as AKS-74U to AK-74, like I've already said), it is a bullpup conversion (again, said). We might as well say NDM-86 Dragunov, because that's what it is. --Masterius 09:10, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- The rifle is called the Dragunov in English. The SVU is a short Dragunov sniper rifle. If the generic for the Ar-15 was "Stoner" rather than "AR-15" then you might concievably add it in that fashion, but it isn't so you don't. Evil Tim 09:45, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- It is called Dragunov (Драгунов) in Russian as well. Only SVD is called Dragunov. SVU isn't short Dragunov sniper rifle, it is bullpup conversion of Dragunov, made by different manufacturers. Otherwise we should call the NDM-86 'NDM-86 Dragunov' and any other Dragunov clone should get Dragunov in its title by such logic. --Masterius 10:17, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- A bullpup conversion of the Dragunov rifle is a short version of the Dragunov rifle. Evil Tim 11:36, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- But it is not Dragunov, it is a derivative of it. In fact, the manufacturing designation for SVU is OTs-03 (with the variants being called OTs-03A and OTs-03AS. SVU is military designation, and Dragunov part is nowhere to be found. And IMFDB is about the proper names for weapons, not what someone decided randomly calling the weapon because its design is related to the other weapon. Its presense on the SVD page is enough, no need to put 'Dragunov' to it, just like there is no 'Dragunov' attached to the name of any other Dragunov clone. --Masterius 12:50, 10 November 2011 (CST)
- In case of doubt:
- Factory designation on: TsKIB SOO, KBP;
- Military designation on: Modern Firearms, Military Today.
- --Masterius 01:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Actually, it's the most common Western name that's used. Hence using NATO names for Russian MANPADS and such. Also, please don't link to world.guns.ru, that site is full of malware. Evil Tim 02:15, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- 'Dragunov SVU' - the most common Western name that's used? Please provide a link. --Masterius 03:06, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Um, 36,400 google results is common. Evil Tim 03:35, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Please, be more specific. You can type everything you want in the Google, including complete nonsense, and there will be results for it. --Masterius 06:47, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Look, just give it a rest. I'm not convinced this is a change there is any particular need to make. Evil Tim 06:52, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- I fail to see why you so defensive about the Dragunov part. It's like you are Dragunov's relative and want it to remain there for everyone to see and take for granted (even though you won't see such bias from non-wiki sources (to which IMFDB kind of related, because of 'first one to come, gets the cookie, and won't share it with anyone' nature (and that's not limited to SVU page). --Masterius 07:00, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- I don't see why you're so adamant it needs to be removed. See how this goes in circles endlessly? Like I said, just stop. Evil Tim 07:06, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Actually, my point was that IMFDB should use the names that are backed up by respectable sources. Or am I wrong and IMFDB has it in the rules that the made up names can be used? So? --Masterius 07:13, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- What part of "stop" is giving you trouble here? Discussion is over. Move along. Evil Tim 07:16, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- In that case, I'm calling even more admins. --Masterius 07:18, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- "The OTs-03AS Dragunov 7.62 mm sniper rifle, or SVU". Not that that would be enough to persuade you, so... --Masterius 07:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- So you read the heading ("OTs-03AS Dragunov SVU"), read that they call it the Dragunov (which you insisted nobody does), and then concluded that you're still right? Get out. Evil Tim 07:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Yeah, put any related term into the title and that's how it is. Ironically, this particular Jane’s article doesn't know about the actual differences between OTs-03 / SVU variants, thus raising the question why shouldn't the info be taken with scepticism. --Masterius 07:44, 11 November 2011 (CST)
- Look, enough. Knock this off until and unless another admin posts here or I'll ban you for three days. Evil Tim 07:46, 11 November 2011 (CST)
Masterius, where you took info about Bondarev? Any Russian source doesn't mention it. Only Dragunov. May be Borat Sogdiev has written a new fundamental source about weapon? :)) Flexo 13:46, 30 December 2011 (CST)