Talk:Zorro (1975): Difference between revisions
Talk:Zorro (1975): Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:Zorro (1975): Difference between revisions
::As [http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MS1757.SHTML here] wrote, Spanish muskets are variants af French Charleville. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 16:44, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
::As [http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MS1757.SHTML here] wrote, Spanish muskets are variants af French Charleville. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 16:44, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
:::The image posted above is definitely a flintlock, you can see the frizzen (the part that the flint hits which also acts as the pan cover) is open in the above image, something which you do for loading and the gun would actually be unable to fire in this configuration. The spring for the frizzen is also clearly visible, a part which doesn't have an analogue on a caplock. As for the last image I think that this is actually a different gun, as the "hammer" is clearly not holding a flint. I am also not convinced that it is a caplock, as too me it looks like there is too much going on just ahead of the hammer, and also the part that the hammer hits is much higher profile than is typical of a normal percussion cap nipple (there is no need for it to stick out this far and would actually be less effective. To me, this part looks more like a firing pin housing that you get on some cartridge conversion type rifled muskets, for example the [[Snider-Enfield Rifle]]. Is this particular rifle ever shown better to see if it actually has a ramrod, as this might help identify if it is a muzzle loader or not. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:38, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
:::The image posted above is definitely a flintlock, you can see the frizzen (the part that the flint hits which also acts as the pan cover) is open in the above image, something which you do for loading and the gun would actually be unable to fire in this configuration. The spring for the frizzen is also clearly visible, a part which doesn't have an analogue on a caplock. As for the last image I think that this is actually a different gun, as the "hammer" is clearly not holding a flint. I am also not convinced that it is a caplock, as too me it looks like there is too much going on just ahead of the hammer, and also the part that the hammer hits is much higher profile than is typical of a normal percussion cap nipple (there is no need for it to stick out this far and would actually be less effective. To me, this part looks more like a firing pin housing that you get on some cartridge conversion type rifled muskets, for example the [[Snider-Enfield Rifle]]. Is this particular rifle ever shown better to see if it actually has a ramrod, as this might help identify if it is a muzzle loader or not. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 21:38, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
::::Here are some additional images. They are not very clear but maybe they would provide any clue. As I can see, all cavalry carbines have the same stock and barrel. If some of them are fitted with flintlock and others with caplock, then maybe these replicas were manufactured with one type of lock and some of them were refitted for the needs of filming (maybe for some other movie, and later reused here). As they doesn't fire, the lock can be replaced without any problems, I think. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 04:05, 20 March 2016 (EDT)
Muskets:
I just noticed, these pistols are really odd[[File:Zorro 1975-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]They are clearly percussion pistols as you can tell by the shape of the hammer face and the presence of the nipple, however they appear to be fitted with a cosmetic flint jaws and locking screw, along with a frizzen spring on the side of the lock plate. I assume that they are meant to be mock ups of flintlocks, but this second part is particularly strange as there is no frizzen and I don't know why you would bother adding this relatively nondescript part but leave off the much more obvious frizzen itself. It makes me wonder if these pistols were originally a more convincing and complete mock up which has had the fake frizzen removed to make them easier to load and use. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 22:06, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
Now I see that muskets are of two (at least) different models. A version that is seen in hands of a guard (in white-covered shako) and a lancer in round hat that looks up doesn't resemble Napoleonic era muskets but looks more like a mid-XIX century rifle. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 04:05, 20 March 2016 (EDT)
:I just noticed, these pistols are really odd[[File:Zorro 1975-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]They are clearly percussion pistols as you can tell by the shape of the hammer face and the presence of the nipple, however they appear to be fitted with a cosmetic flint jaws and locking screw, along with a frizzen spring on the side of the lock plate. I assume that they are meant to be mock ups of flintlocks, but this second part is particularly strange as there is no frizzen and I don't know why you would bother adding this relatively nondescript part but leave off the much more obvious frizzen itself. It makes me wonder if these pistols were originally a more convincing and complete mock up which has had the fake frizzen removed to make them easier to load and use. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 22:06, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
Also, on this shot the gun is flintlock. And it's seem very similar to Model 1786 Hussar Carbine with removed muzzle yellow part (I don't know, how it's titled). Pyramid Silent (talk) 16:14, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
The muskets are not Charleville, they are replica guns (when they "fire", the lock doesn't move and only a small grey cloud of smoke appear at the muzzle). I assume the base gun for these replicas to be some Spanish musket of Napoleonic era but as I couldn't find an image of such musket, I put the sample of Charleville for comparison, as I wrote on the page. About the carbine: I think it to be a caplock, not a flintlock but there is some doubt so I'll look again, more carefully. Greg-Z (talk) 16:27, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
As here wrote, Spanish muskets are variants af French Charleville. Pyramid Silent (talk) 16:44, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
The image posted above is definitely a flintlock, you can see the frizzen (the part that the flint hits which also acts as the pan cover) is open in the above image, something which you do for loading and the gun would actually be unable to fire in this configuration. The spring for the frizzen is also clearly visible, a part which doesn't have an analogue on a caplock. As for the last image I think that this is actually a different gun, as the "hammer" is clearly not holding a flint. I am also not convinced that it is a caplock, as too me it looks like there is too much going on just ahead of the hammer, and also the part that the hammer hits is much higher profile than is typical of a normal percussion cap nipple (there is no need for it to stick out this far and would actually be less effective. To me, this part looks more like a firing pin housing that you get on some cartridge conversion type rifled muskets, for example the Snider-Enfield Rifle. Is this particular rifle ever shown better to see if it actually has a ramrod, as this might help identify if it is a muzzle loader or not. --commando552 (talk) 21:38, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
Here are some additional images. They are not very clear but maybe they would provide any clue. As I can see, all cavalry carbines have the same stock and barrel. If some of them are fitted with flintlock and others with caplock, then maybe these replicas were manufactured with one type of lock and some of them were refitted for the needs of filming (maybe for some other movie, and later reused here). As they doesn't fire, the lock can be replaced without any problems, I think. Greg-Z (talk) 04:05, 20 March 2016 (EDT)
Now I see that muskets are of two (at least) different models. A version that is seen in hands of a guard (in white-covered shako) and a lancer in round hat that looks up doesn't resemble Napoleonic era muskets but looks more like a mid-XIX century rifle. Greg-Z (talk) 04:05, 20 March 2016 (EDT)
I just noticed, these pistols are really oddError creating thumbnail: File missingThey are clearly percussion pistols as you can tell by the shape of the hammer face and the presence of the nipple, however they appear to be fitted with a cosmetic flint jaws and locking screw, along with a frizzen spring on the side of the lock plate. I assume that they are meant to be mock ups of flintlocks, but this second part is particularly strange as there is no frizzen and I don't know why you would bother adding this relatively nondescript part but leave off the much more obvious frizzen itself. It makes me wonder if these pistols were originally a more convincing and complete mock up which has had the fake frizzen removed to make them easier to load and use. --commando552 (talk) 22:06, 19 March 2016 (EDT)
