Talk:Taser: Difference between revisions

This is a prime candidate for DELETION. There are many other less lethal devices used by police and civilians. Stunguns, Pepper spray, beanbag rounds, rubber. Though the original Taser is classified by the ATF as a firearm, only because some of the models use chemical charges to fire the darts (some others don't) it's a pure technicality. MoviePropMaster2008 05:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Opinions from other members on the subject are requested.

I know it is not a firearm but the FN 303 is also not a firearm as it also uses compressed air and it has a page, I just thought that I would make a page for the taser as it is seen in quite a few movies and tv shows these days. --ThePotShot 05:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

That page can easily be removed if you so desire, however, one of the criteria is whether or not the general public will confuse it with a firearm (or the generally accepted definition of a firearm). No one wonders what a Taser is, they know what a Taser is and they KNOW it's not a firearm in the conventional sense of the word. MoviePropMaster2008 01:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I say let it stay. If you can hold it in your hand and use it to shoot a projectile out at someone, it's a firearm in my eyes, More so, even than some of the "fantasy weapons" allowed on here.--Spikemonkey 05:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I suppose if you want to get pedantic, firearms are ranged weapons that rely on chemical explosives (where the "fire" in "firearm" comes from) to propel a projectile at something or someone to cause harm to it by breaking the target apart, and receives all of its propulsive energy at the start (unlike missiles or rockets which gradually accelerate). By this definition, a speargun is not a firearm (since it relies on tension rather than expanding gases to launch the projectile) and rail- or coil-guns don't count either, since they electromagnetically accelerate a projectile rather than using a chemical explosive (maybe the technical term should be "EMAC gun" and not rifle since they don't require any rifling in a barrel?).

I myself don't mind which way this wiki swings, since here we also list things that are not strictly man-portable firearms either (like the entries for rocket launchers, mines and vehicle-mounted weapons such as the Bushmaster chaingun). I would like this wiki to be on the inclusive side, so as long as it's within reason. One example is how I plan to include the "Less-Lethal Shotgun" on the S.W.A.T. 4 page since it's converted from a Benelli Nova shotgun and still uses chemical explosives to propel its beanbags, but won't include the Pepper Spray in the game since it's not a ranged weapon nor was it made from a conventional firearm. The Pepper-ball gun I've decided to include anyway for completeness' sake, despite using compressed air instead of chemical explosives.

Either way, whichever the decision the powers-that-be here on this wiki make, it should be clear and posted somewhere easily accessed and seen so that the policy of this wiki will be clear and easily enforced for all contributors. --Mazryonh 05:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Will do. The problem is that SOME NEW MEMBERS always find a way to 'stretch' the definition of what should be on the site. I suppose that is why rules and regulations always end up being so LONG. This IS the Movie FIREARMS database, and yes, I've had FIGHTS with other members as to the 'mission creep' of ever expanding lists of stuff that appears on the site. One of these days we'll have a page for 'Sharp Stick' and there will be someone arguing as to why it should be here. MoviePropMaster2008 01:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea if this is finished or not but I think that if you delete this on the basis that it is not strictly a firearm, well, there will be so much other things that should be removed from the site, just like mines & such. Rocket launchers arn't firearms either. Just saying my view. :) --ZacharyXD (talk) 14:49, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

I agree with --ZacharyXD, after all even Airsoft-Guns and Non-guns are listed, and they're even further "off" from the firearm-classification. So this definitely deserves to stay here.

X2 Photos

The existing X2/3 pics look like concept renders. I put up the first photo of an X2 I have right now. I plan to take some more photos of the X2, probably next week. I'll try to get pics of the safety, lcd screen, aiming lasers, and cartridges. I don't have any X3s to get photos of unfortunately. Should I try to get a white background or is that orange textured one fine? S3anyBoy (talk) 23:04, 20 February 2015 (EST)

It's no wonder you don't have an X3 to take photos of; it was discontinued in 2013, likely due to how wide and unwieldy it was to keep on a police utility belt, though it was also offered in a "Home Defender" variant which likely shouldn't have had those issues to that extent. See if you can get a white background if at all possible. If not, the current one will suffice for now. --Mazryonh (talk) 15:36, 21 February 2015 (EST)

I didn't want to waste IMFDB bandwidth uploading ones that would go unused. I made an imgur album of the photos I took. Which do you think belong on the article? I'll probably replace the last photo I took with one with a white background, maybe one of the "half-loaded" ones. It was hard to get a good picture of the aiming light/laser, especially since the bottom dot flashes, but I got a good one of the screen and top blade sights. http://imgur.com/a/36w6Q S3anyBoy (talk) 11:47, 25 February 2015 (EST)

You don't need to worry about wasting bandwidth; the moderators here are fairly on-the-ball about deleting unused or unwanted pictures on this wiki. It's great that you're helping by contributing photographs of your X2, but it would be even better if you could retake those pictures with a camera that was able to focus properly on the weapon, so that it's crystal clear when viewed at full resolution. I don't know if you took those photos with a phone's camera or not, but the pictures are clearly much fuzzier than most of the other photos on this wiki. Anyway, what you have is a good start. Here's a primer on what else you should look into taking pictures of:

A view of your X2 with the muzzle visible, kind of like the X2 Render picture we used to have on this page, but with the muzzle pointing in the opposite direction (perhaps you can position the X2 upright while balancing the bottom edge of the muzzle against the table while setting up a white background--would removing the battery help?). Because your X2 is mostly bright yellow, it's hard to differentiate it from the X3's render picture, and the number of cartridges in a fully-loaded muzzle is the surest way to determine whether it's an X2 or X3. Perhaps if you remove the battery you can place it alongside the X2, kind of like how semiautomatic pistols on this wiki sometimes appear in photos next to their ammunition magazines, or even turn on the integral flashlight from this viewpoint to show where exactly the light comes out from.

A properly-focused picture of the X2's LED and iron sights but without either your fingers and or hands in the picture. Would it be possible to balance the X2 on a table without your fingers holding it up, perhaps with the muzzle on the surface of the table so you can take a clear picture without your hands/fingers in the picture?

A clear picture of the smart cartridge with the muzzle end flat against your wooden ruler's measuring edge. You clearly had trouble with aligning the longest edge to be parallel to the ruler, so perhaps you could just use the flattest edge to make it easier.

A clear picture of the "warning arc" being used from the X2 while cartridges are still unfired. This could go at the top of the page as a demonstration of an ability common to all CEWs released so far. Technically I'd like one from the older Tasers as well (either from the X26 or the M26) that shows how they needed to remove cartridges or have expended ones for it to work, but this will do for now.

I realize this might sound like a tall order, but you can do this piece by piece so as to get the most informative photos for this wiki. See if you can get a good white light source so your pictures are properly lit as well. Things like the X2's integral flashlight and aiming laser can wait for a bit--does the Home Defender version have two aiming lasers or not? --Mazryonh (talk) 04:39, 1 March 2015 (EST)

They actually were taken with a phone camera. My last dedicated camera was broken and I haven't gotten a replacement yet, probably will sometime next week and try to get the photos after that. As far as I know there is no "Home Defender" version, the product's full title is just "TASER X2 Defender". It's got a flashlight and dual lasers coming from the small port on the bottom of the weapon, but the bottom laser flashes, so sometimes it doesn't show up in photos, the light and laser can be turned on/off independently but requires going into a menu to do so. Technically it isn't MY X2, it belongs to my department, so I'm not always able to take photos of it if it's being used for training or being carried by someone else. S3anyBoy (talk) 15:57, 1 March 2015 (EST)

I get it; just see what you can do about my suggestions when it's convenient. It's too bad that good photos of this weapon (especially in use or with its features visible) are so hard to find. --Mazryonh (talk) 21:05, 2 March 2015 (EST)

Another album: http://imgur.com/a/layP6

These were taken with a dedicated camera, but it's a pretty cheap one. I went for as many photos as possible (51, so be careful if you have bandwidth limits), and tried to ge tthe shots you asked for. Trying to get a focused shot of the sights is hard, the focus on this camera is a bit silly. Should the focus be on the front sight, rear sights, or what? Getting a photo of the arc is also pretty hard, I tried holding the weapon and camera but that was very awkward, the best I got was with it lying down on it's and I simply pressed the button, but the arc also flickers, so many of the shots were between arcs. I've got some stuff to do but in 3-4 hours I should have some more time to take some additional pictures if they are needed, I'm thinking I might just use the video function to get the arc and take a screencap from that. S3anyBoy (talk) 11:36, 5 March 2015 (EST)

Wow, thanks for your hard work. I'll look these over soon. --Mazryonh (talk) 12:06, 5 March 2015 (EST)

I took a video and took screencaps of that for the warning arc, the video resolution is significantly lower than the stills (1280x720 vs 5152x3684) but taking a still timed correctly to show the arc was too much trouble, even continuous shutter didn't work. Interesting I noticed the arc starts on the left cartridge, then alternates to the right one, but doesn't have them both active at once.

http://imgur.com/a/tME28 S3anyBoy (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2015 (EST)

Conducted Energy Weapons from other companies

So far, Taser International has done a good job of maintaining its market share (and Taser has more or less become the byword for electroshock CEWs). There have been a few other CEWs made by other companies that have turned up in media that would be suitable for inclusion on this wiki, however. Since I see gun entries for guns that appear only in one piece of media, would those non-Taser-International-made CEWs get their own pages or go on this one?

Two examples are the Stinger S-400, the first commercially available multishot CEW, found in SWAT 4, and the Stinger S-200, which greatly resembles the CEW used in Grand Theft Auto V. Both were made by the now-defunct Stinger Systems. --Mazryonh (talk) 16:08, 21 February 2015 (EST)

I would think they probably go on this page, especially since most people would probably think of it as a "taser" anyway, and especially if it's only got one or 2 appearances in media, but I'm no admin or expert. S3anyBoy (talk) 20:01, 23 February 2015 (EST)

I agree that we should group those other ones on this page, since they fall under the umbrella of 'Taser' and also don't seem to have enough entries or exposure to warrant their own pages, as stated. True these would be from different companies but just like how SAAs, Single/Double-Barrel Shotguns, etc are all generally consolidated on single pages, I think that same deal can apply here. StanTheMan (talk) 20:57, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Should probably move this page to "Conducted Energy Weapon" with Taser as a redirect if we're doing that, since "Taser" is currently still a non-generic trademark and all. Otherwise it'd be like calling every carbine AR15 an M4. Evil Tim (talk) 21:07, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Okay, I think with three CEW companies mentioned on this wiki now (Taser International, Redon, and Stinger Systems), I believe it's time we moved this page to "Conducted Energy Weapon" and changed "Taser" to point to that new page. Sorting these weapons by manufacturer should be easy from then on. Once the move is made I intend to overhaul this page in the near future. --Mazryonh (talk) 00:46, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

Info needed on the Redon-5M

I can't find any detailed info in English on this weapon, and what is available in English seems to be poorly translated from the original Chinese. The RD-5M's ammunition looks very similar to the "Air cartridges" produced by Taser International, but there's no English info saying whether or not it could actually use that ammunition (I know at least one Taser copy, called the "Phazzer," can use those cartridges). Perhaps someone here who knows Chinese could research this and fill out the RD-5M's description. --Mazryonh (talk) 00:34, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+==Additional Images==
+[[File:Stinger S-200.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stinger S-200]]
+[[File:X26 police.jpg|thumb|none|400px|X26 Taser (Police Issue)]]
+[[File:X26 Taser yellow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|X26 Taser (Yellow)]]
+[[File:Green X26P Taser.jpg|thumb|none|400px|X26P Taser (Green)]]
+[[File:Taser Pulse pistol right.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taser Pulse+ pistol.]]
+[[Image:Taser Shockwave Perimeter Defense.jpg|thumb|none|330px|Taser International Shockwave Perimeter Defense System]]
+===Others===
+[[File:Taser-x2-obg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TASER X2 Defender with one cartridge partially ejected]]
+[[File:aim-x2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The TASER X2 LCD Screen and blade sights. The screen indicates that 2 standard 25-foot cartridges are installed and ready.]]
+[[File:Taser_Smart_Cartridge.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A "Smart Cartridge" from Taser International.]]
 ==A TASER is NOT a firearm!==
 This is a prime candidate for DELETION.  There are many other less lethal devices used by police and civilians.  Stunguns, Pepper spray, beanbag rounds, rubber.  Though the original Taser is classified by the ATF as a firearm, only because some of the models use chemical charges to fire the darts (some others don't) it's a pure technicality.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)  Opinions from other members on the subject are requested.
@@ Line 17: / Line 31: @@
 --[[User:ZacharyXD|ZacharyXD]] ([[User talk:ZacharyXD|talk]]) 14:49, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
 : I agree with --ZacharyXD, after all even Airsoft-Guns and Non-guns are listed, and they're even further "off" from the firearm-classification.  So this definitely deserves to stay here.
+== X2 Photos ==
+The existing X2/3 pics look like concept renders. I put up the first photo of an X2 I have right now. I plan to take some more photos of the X2, probably next week. I'll try to get pics of the safety, lcd screen, aiming lasers, and cartridges. I don't have any X3s to get photos of unfortunately. Should I try to get a white background or is that orange textured one fine? [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 23:04, 20 February 2015 (EST)
+:It's no wonder you don't have an X3 to take photos of; it was discontinued in 2013, likely due to how wide and unwieldy it was to keep on a police utility belt, though it was also offered in a "Home Defender" variant which likely shouldn't have had those issues to that extent. See if you can get a white background if at all possible. If not, the current one will suffice for now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 15:36, 21 February 2015 (EST)
+I didn't want to waste IMFDB bandwidth uploading ones that would go unused. I made an imgur album of the photos I took. Which do you think belong on the article? I'll probably replace the last photo I took with one with a white background, maybe one of the "half-loaded" ones. It was hard to get a good picture of the aiming light/laser, especially since the bottom dot flashes, but I got a good one of the screen and top blade sights. http://imgur.com/a/36w6Q
+[[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 11:47, 25 February 2015 (EST)
+:You don't need to worry about wasting bandwidth; the moderators here are fairly on-the-ball about deleting unused or unwanted pictures on this wiki. It's great that you're helping by contributing photographs of your X2, but it would be even better if you could retake those pictures with a camera that was able to focus properly on the weapon, so that it's crystal clear when viewed at full resolution. I don't know if you took those photos with a phone's camera or not, but the pictures are clearly much fuzzier than most of the other photos on this wiki. Anyway, what you have is a good start. Here's a primer on what else you should look into taking pictures of:
+*A view of your X2 with the muzzle visible, kind of like the X2 Render picture we used to have on this page, but with the muzzle pointing in the opposite direction (perhaps you can position the X2 upright while balancing the bottom edge of the muzzle against the table while setting up a white background--would removing the battery help?). Because your X2 is mostly bright yellow, it's hard to differentiate it from the X3's render picture, and the number of cartridges in a fully-loaded muzzle is the surest way to determine whether it's an X2 or X3. Perhaps if you remove the battery you can place it alongside the X2, kind of like how semiautomatic pistols on this wiki sometimes appear in photos next to their ammunition magazines, or even turn on the integral flashlight from this viewpoint to show where exactly the light comes out from.
+*A properly-focused picture of the X2's LED and iron sights but without either your fingers and or hands in the picture. Would it be possible to balance the X2 on a table without your fingers holding it up, perhaps with the muzzle on the surface of the table so you can take a clear picture without your hands/fingers in the picture?
+*A clear picture of the smart cartridge with the muzzle end flat against your wooden ruler's measuring edge. You clearly had trouble with aligning the longest edge to be parallel to the ruler, so perhaps you could just use the flattest edge to make it easier.
+*A clear picture of the "warning arc" being used from the X2 while cartridges are still unfired. This could go at the top of the page as a demonstration of an ability common to all CEWs released so far. Technically I'd like one from the older Tasers as well (either from the X26 or the M26) that shows how they needed to remove cartridges or have expended ones for it to work, but this will do for now.
+:I realize this might sound like a tall order, but you can do this piece by piece so as to get the most informative photos for this wiki. See if you can get a good white light source so your pictures are properly lit as well. Things like the X2's integral flashlight and aiming laser can wait for a bit--does the Home Defender version have two aiming lasers or not? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 04:39, 1 March 2015 (EST)
+They actually were taken with a phone camera. My last dedicated camera was broken and I haven't gotten a replacement yet, probably will sometime next week and try to get the photos after that. As far as I know there is no "Home Defender" version, the product's full title is just "TASER X2 Defender". It's got a flashlight and dual lasers coming from the small port on the bottom of the weapon, but the bottom laser flashes, so sometimes it doesn't show up in photos, the light and laser can be turned on/off independently but requires going into a menu to do so. Technically it isn't MY X2, it belongs to my department, so I'm not always able to take photos of it if it's being used for training or being carried by someone else. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 15:57, 1 March 2015 (EST)
+:I get it; just see what you can do about my suggestions when it's convenient. It's too bad that good photos of this weapon (especially in use or with its features visible) are so hard to find. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 21:05, 2 March 2015 (EST)
+Another album: http://imgur.com/a/layP6
+These were taken with a dedicated camera, but it's a pretty cheap one. I went for as many photos as possible (51, so be careful if you have bandwidth limits), and tried to ge tthe shots you asked for. Trying to get a focused shot of the sights is hard, the focus on this camera is a bit silly. Should the focus be on the front sight, rear sights, or what? Getting a photo of the arc is also pretty hard, I tried holding the weapon and camera but that was very awkward, the best I got was with it lying down on it's and I simply pressed the button, but the arc also flickers, so many of the shots were between arcs.  I've got some stuff to do but in 3-4 hours I should have some more time to take some additional pictures if they are needed, I'm thinking I might just use the video function to get the arc and take a screencap from that. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 11:36, 5 March 2015 (EST)
+:Wow, thanks for your hard work. I'll look these over soon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 12:06, 5 March 2015 (EST)
+I took a video and took screencaps of that for the warning arc, the video resolution is significantly lower than the stills (1280x720 vs 5152x3684) but taking a still timed correctly to show the arc was too much trouble, even continuous shutter didn't work. Interesting I noticed the arc starts on the left cartridge, then alternates to the right one, but doesn't have them both active at once.
+http://imgur.com/a/tME28
+[[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 16:19, 5 March 2015 (EST)
+== Conducted Energy Weapons from other companies ==
+So far, Taser International has done a good job of maintaining its market share (and Taser has more or less become the byword for electroshock CEWs). There have been a few other CEWs made by other companies that have turned up in media that would be suitable for inclusion on this wiki, however. Since I see gun entries for guns that appear only in one piece of media, would those non-Taser-International-made CEWs get their own pages or go on this one?
+Two examples are the Stinger S-400, the first commercially available multishot CEW, found in [[SWAT 4]], and the Stinger S-200, which greatly resembles the CEW used in [[Grand Theft Auto V]]. Both were made by the now-defunct Stinger Systems. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:08, 21 February 2015 (EST)
+I would think they probably go on this page, especially since most people would probably think of it as a "taser" anyway, and especially if it's only got one or 2 appearances in media, but I'm no admin or expert. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 20:01, 23 February 2015 (EST)
+:I agree that we should group those other ones on this page, since they fall under the umbrella of 'Taser' and also don't seem to have enough entries or exposure to warrant their own pages, as stated. True these would be from different companies but just like how SAAs, Single/Double-Barrel Shotguns, etc are all generally consolidated on single pages, I think that same deal can apply here. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 20:57, 23 February 2015 (EST)
+::Should probably move this page to "Conducted Energy Weapon" with Taser as a redirect if we're doing that, since "Taser" is currently still a non-generic trademark and all. Otherwise it'd be like calling every carbine AR15 an M4. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 21:07, 23 February 2015 (EST)
+Okay, I think with three CEW companies mentioned on this wiki now (Taser International, Redon, and Stinger Systems), I believe it's time we moved this page to "Conducted Energy Weapon" and changed "Taser" to point to that new page. Sorting these weapons by manufacturer should be easy from then on. Once the move is made I intend to overhaul this page in the near future. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:46, 9 July 2015 (EDT)
+== Info needed on the Redon-5M ==
+I can't find any detailed info in English on this weapon, and what is available in English seems to be poorly translated from the original Chinese. The RD-5M's ammunition looks very similar to the "Air cartridges" produced by Taser International, but there's no English info saying whether or not it could actually use that ammunition (I know at least one Taser copy, called the "Phazzer," can use those cartridges). Perhaps someone here who knows Chinese could research this and fill out the RD-5M's description. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:34, 9 July 2015 (EDT)

Talk:Taser: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 12:10, 25 September 2022

Contents

Additional Images

Others

A TASER is NOT a firearm!

X2 Photos

Conducted Energy Weapons from other companies

Info needed on the Redon-5M

Navigation menu

Talk:Taser: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 12:10, 25 September 2022

Additional Images

Others

A TASER is NOT a firearm!

X2 Photos

Conducted Energy Weapons from other companies

Info needed on the Redon-5M

Navigation menu

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