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Talk:Total War: Shogun 2: Difference between revisions
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The main game has only 1 eligible firearm for this wiki. The ''Rise of the Samurai'' expansion pack being, set centuries earlier, has none. The ''Fall of the Samurai'', being set in the 19th century, has the majority of eligible firearms--to save space, shouldn't this expansion pack and the main game be covered together, with redirects for ''Fall of the Samurai'' being sent to the main ''Total War: Shogun 2'' page? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:42, 14 April 2014 (EDT) | The main game has only 1 eligible firearm for this wiki. The ''Rise of the Samurai'' expansion pack being, set centuries earlier, has none. The ''Fall of the Samurai'', being set in the 19th century, has the majority of eligible firearms--to save space, shouldn't this expansion pack and the main game be covered together, with redirects for ''Fall of the Samurai'' being sent to the main ''Total War: Shogun 2'' page? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:42, 14 April 2014 (EDT) | ||
:Expansion packs don't get their own pages. But if it doesn't have any guns to begin with, it's a moot point. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 22:51, 14 April 2014 (EDT) | :Expansion packs don't get their own pages. But if it doesn't have any guns to begin with, it's a moot point. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 22:51, 14 April 2014 (EDT) | ||
I see, but still, this will likely be one of the few games on this wiki where the expansion pack has more eligible guns than the original game! Please make sure the redirects get taken care of, though.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 21:49, 15 April 2014 (EDT) | |||
== Unknown revolver == | == Unknown revolver == | ||
The unknown revolver looks like a Colt 1861 Navy to me, [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] ([[User talk:PeeWee055|talk]]) 04:58, 15 April 2014 (EDT) | The unknown revolver looks like either a [[Colt 1860 Army]] or Colt 1861 Navy to me, [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] ([[User talk:PeeWee055|talk]]) 04:58, 15 April 2014 (EDT) | ||
== Rifle ID == | |||
I don't think the rifle is a Thouvenin. This is a type of action rather than a specific rifle, where there is a protrusion from the back of the chamber which the bullet is rammed against to deform it so that it fills the barrel (precursor to the Minié ball). By deffinition these are muzzle loading weapons with a percussion cap type lock, whereas this appears to be a bolt action. It is hard to tell as only the left side is shown, but i believe it could be a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassepot Chassepot], it has matching cleaning rod, rear sight and barrel bands, and it looks like the back of the bolt is the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:08, 15 April 2014 (EDT) | |||
== I did some research. These are the real weapons in the game. == | |||
I dug around the .pack files and the internet and this is what I figured out. | |||
Here are some renders from the guy who did the models for the game: http://www.tiflos.com/2012/05/30/total-war-shogun-2-fall-of-the-samurai/ | |||
By relating the data I extracted form the pack files with the render pictures from that site and confirming the validity of the weapon on the net this is my final conclusion. | |||
1. Minnie Rifle. | |||
In file it's ID is boshin_minnie and minnie_b (Bayonet version). Not sure which Minnie rifle though. | |||
2. Spencer Repeating Rifle (ID: boshin_spencer). This one is used by Carabine Cav and Tosa Riflemen, although the Tosa Riflemen use muzzle loading animation in the older patches. I heard that was fixed in the later patches. The mod I used didn't fix it so I fixed it myself. | |||
3. Cassepot Rifle (boshin_chassepot, chassepot_b). Used by Japanese Elite Infantry (Shogunate/Imperial/Republican Guard Inf) and French Infanterie de Marine. | |||
4. British Snider-Enfield Breechloader (boshin_snider, snider_b). Used by Royal Marines and some line infantry (at least in my mod). But the line has the same problem as the Tosa Riflemen: muzzle-loading a breech-loader. | |||
5. Colt? The Revolvers are ID-ed boshin_colt. So I'm guessing it's a Colt. Need further research. | |||
I'll leave this here for a while, see if anyone responds. If no one does, I'll edit the main article myself. Although I'd prefer if a more experienced user did it. | |||
Is it OK if I use the renders form the site I provided or should I add screenshots from the game? Can I use both? | |||
:Don't you need to ask permission first from the modeller to use the renders from that website on this wiki? If you do end up contacting the modeller, perhaps you could ask exactly which historical models those renders were based on and get the ambiguous ones cleared up. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:59, 28 September 2014 (EDT) | |||
::They'd qualify under fair use (he's presenting them as samples of his work while we're presenting them for purposes of analysis or commentary, so it's transformative, we're not pretending they're our models, and using them does not alter their value). It's still nice to ask, though, even if he hasn't watermarked them. Plus I'd rather have in-game shots rather than guns floating in a formless void. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:42, 29 September 2014 (EDT) | |||
:::It's kinda better if its that way (the void thing) and combine it with in-game screenshots [[User:Styger21st|Styger21st]] ([[User talk:Styger21st|talk]]) 23:43, 28 May 2015 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 03:43, 29 May 2015
The main game has only 1 eligible firearm for this wiki. The Rise of the Samurai expansion pack being, set centuries earlier, has none. The Fall of the Samurai, being set in the 19th century, has the majority of eligible firearms--to save space, shouldn't this expansion pack and the main game be covered together, with redirects for Fall of the Samurai being sent to the main Total War: Shogun 2 page? --Mazryonh (talk) 20:42, 14 April 2014 (EDT)
- Expansion packs don't get their own pages. But if it doesn't have any guns to begin with, it's a moot point. --Funkychinaman (talk) 22:51, 14 April 2014 (EDT)
I see, but still, this will likely be one of the few games on this wiki where the expansion pack has more eligible guns than the original game! Please make sure the redirects get taken care of, though.--Mazryonh (talk) 21:49, 15 April 2014 (EDT)
Unknown revolver
The unknown revolver looks like either a Colt 1860 Army or Colt 1861 Navy to me, PeeWee055 (talk) 04:58, 15 April 2014 (EDT)
Rifle ID
I don't think the rifle is a Thouvenin. This is a type of action rather than a specific rifle, where there is a protrusion from the back of the chamber which the bullet is rammed against to deform it so that it fills the barrel (precursor to the Minié ball). By deffinition these are muzzle loading weapons with a percussion cap type lock, whereas this appears to be a bolt action. It is hard to tell as only the left side is shown, but i believe it could be a Chassepot, it has matching cleaning rod, rear sight and barrel bands, and it looks like the back of the bolt is the same. --commando552 (talk) 15:08, 15 April 2014 (EDT)
I did some research. These are the real weapons in the game.
I dug around the .pack files and the internet and this is what I figured out. Here are some renders from the guy who did the models for the game: http://www.tiflos.com/2012/05/30/total-war-shogun-2-fall-of-the-samurai/ By relating the data I extracted form the pack files with the render pictures from that site and confirming the validity of the weapon on the net this is my final conclusion.
1. Minnie Rifle. In file it's ID is boshin_minnie and minnie_b (Bayonet version). Not sure which Minnie rifle though.
2. Spencer Repeating Rifle (ID: boshin_spencer). This one is used by Carabine Cav and Tosa Riflemen, although the Tosa Riflemen use muzzle loading animation in the older patches. I heard that was fixed in the later patches. The mod I used didn't fix it so I fixed it myself.
3. Cassepot Rifle (boshin_chassepot, chassepot_b). Used by Japanese Elite Infantry (Shogunate/Imperial/Republican Guard Inf) and French Infanterie de Marine.
4. British Snider-Enfield Breechloader (boshin_snider, snider_b). Used by Royal Marines and some line infantry (at least in my mod). But the line has the same problem as the Tosa Riflemen: muzzle-loading a breech-loader.
5. Colt? The Revolvers are ID-ed boshin_colt. So I'm guessing it's a Colt. Need further research.
I'll leave this here for a while, see if anyone responds. If no one does, I'll edit the main article myself. Although I'd prefer if a more experienced user did it. Is it OK if I use the renders form the site I provided or should I add screenshots from the game? Can I use both?
- Don't you need to ask permission first from the modeller to use the renders from that website on this wiki? If you do end up contacting the modeller, perhaps you could ask exactly which historical models those renders were based on and get the ambiguous ones cleared up. --Mazryonh (talk) 23:59, 28 September 2014 (EDT)
- They'd qualify under fair use (he's presenting them as samples of his work while we're presenting them for purposes of analysis or commentary, so it's transformative, we're not pretending they're our models, and using them does not alter their value). It's still nice to ask, though, even if he hasn't watermarked them. Plus I'd rather have in-game shots rather than guns floating in a formless void. Evil Tim (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2014 (EDT)
- It's kinda better if its that way (the void thing) and combine it with in-game screenshots Styger21st (talk) 23:43, 28 May 2015 (EDT)