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Talk:Mauser Selbstlader M1916: Difference between revisions
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This weapon looks absolutely fantastic! I wonder how this performed in the field?... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 16:02, 6 March 2014 (EST) | This weapon looks absolutely fantastic! I wonder how this performed in the field?... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 16:02, 6 March 2014 (EST) | ||
:If I recall, the rounds had to be oiled, which is a dealbreaker for field use. The only people who used it were Zeppelin crews. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:06, 6 March 2014 (EST) | :If I recall, the rounds had to be oiled, which is a dealbreaker for field use. The only people who used it were Zeppelin crews. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:06, 6 March 2014 (EST) | ||
== Confusion == | |||
Forgotten weapons did [http://www.forgottenweapons.com/early-semiauto-rifles/mauser-selbstlader/ an article] and [http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mauser-m1915-selbstlader-infantry-rifle-video/ a video] on the weapon. The problem here is that there seems to be some conflicts between these sources: | |||
*Ian says only about 600 M1916s were made, 400 being carbines and the rest rifles. The article instead says that 1000 M1916s were made. | |||
*Ian says the weapon uses 25-round magazines, while the article says 20-round detachable magazine were introduced | |||
*There seems to be some confusion over the name of the "Rifle variant". The article says that the rifle was also known as "06/08 rifle" while the video gave no mention of this name. The article specified the "Selbstlader-Karabiner Mauser M 1916" name as the refined carbine version of the 06/08 rifle, while Ian in the video just calls the long rifle version the M1916. | |||
--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 21 April 2018 | |||
::I'd go with the article over the video, I think Ian does these videos from memory rather than reading a script and something like "600 M1916s and 400 carbines" can easily become "they made 600 and 400 were carbines"." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:22, 21 April 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure that the magazine capacity is 20 rounds, considering how it's, as far as anyone can tell, basically an [[MG13]] magazine (although, considering the dates involved, it might be more appropriate to say that the MG13 uses Mauser magazines). Thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:31, 21 April 2018 (EDT) | |||
::::Edit: 25-round fixed one are on 06-08 (I specifically compared to scale). Interestingly, a similar magazine ''extension'' will be released for the regular bolt action Gew.98 in WWI. M1915/1916 magazine for 25 rounds, because contrary to the claims of advertising agents, it is the same design. The only difference is that the MG13 variant has an additional "tooth" on the front. Look, don't be confused they, lol. A similar, but not compatible design is Fedorov, because he studied a carbine captured in France in 1916. I also think that the very first automatic rifles of Fedorov (6.5mm) should have had simpler magazines without stamping this sample, but these, unfortunately, did not survive. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 18:47, 12 September 2021 (EDT)/--[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 13:38, 13 September 2021 (EDT) | |||
:::::Fedorov writes: "Examining the individual parts laid out on the table in the room of the French Ministry of War, I noticed a serial number stamped on them - 244. This showed that the captured rifle belonged to the first batch of those five hundred copies, the order of which I knew about before the war." "It didn't take me long to notice that the most important and most secret detail, namely the slider, on the device of which the system's automation is based, was not here. - And where is the slider? I asked the officers. “We don’t have any more parts. Probably a German pilot threw it out at the time of the crash." “What a curse! I thought. - The slider is as if bewitched. It is not given to me in any way." Even on the eve of the war, during one of my business trips to Germany, I tried to get this most important part of the Mauser automatic rifle. However, this did not succeed - the Germans kept the slider device in the strictest confidence." "The automatic opening of the bolt in the Mauser rifle was based on movement, or, as we said, on "jerking", when firing a special part, usually called a slider." --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 23:42, 12 September 2021 (EDT) | |||
:::::The infantry versions are at the level of serial numbers ~ 200 from the well-known model, the carbine versions are at ~ 400 (I have not seen any other early ranges). Mauser #566 produced in 1917, at a later stage. In any case, the ends do not fit together, unless the Germans start numbered them from more early prototypes. I am sure that the gun that Fedorov saw was a rifle, not a carbine. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 00:03, 13 September 2021 (EDT) | |||
::::::P.S. Mauser's extended fixed magazine is valid for 20 rounds, but it increases the built-in power already available. So technically it's still 25 rounds. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 11:14, 13 September 2021 (EDT) | |||
:::::The detachable magazine was apparently developed in 1909, just after 06-08, and the patent was approved in 1911. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 11:29, 13 September 2021 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:38, 13 September 2021
This weapon looks absolutely fantastic! I wonder how this performed in the field?... --Warejaws (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2014 (EST)
- If I recall, the rounds had to be oiled, which is a dealbreaker for field use. The only people who used it were Zeppelin crews. --Funkychinaman (talk) 16:06, 6 March 2014 (EST)
Confusion
Forgotten weapons did an article and a video on the weapon. The problem here is that there seems to be some conflicts between these sources:
- Ian says only about 600 M1916s were made, 400 being carbines and the rest rifles. The article instead says that 1000 M1916s were made.
- Ian says the weapon uses 25-round magazines, while the article says 20-round detachable magazine were introduced
- There seems to be some confusion over the name of the "Rifle variant". The article says that the rifle was also known as "06/08 rifle" while the video gave no mention of this name. The article specified the "Selbstlader-Karabiner Mauser M 1916" name as the refined carbine version of the 06/08 rifle, while Ian in the video just calls the long rifle version the M1916.
- I'd go with the article over the video, I think Ian does these videos from memory rather than reading a script and something like "600 M1916s and 400 carbines" can easily become "they made 600 and 400 were carbines"." Evil Tim (talk) 09:22, 21 April 2018 (EDT)
- Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure that the magazine capacity is 20 rounds, considering how it's, as far as anyone can tell, basically an MG13 magazine (although, considering the dates involved, it might be more appropriate to say that the MG13 uses Mauser magazines). Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 09:31, 21 April 2018 (EDT)
- Edit: 25-round fixed one are on 06-08 (I specifically compared to scale). Interestingly, a similar magazine extension will be released for the regular bolt action Gew.98 in WWI. M1915/1916 magazine for 25 rounds, because contrary to the claims of advertising agents, it is the same design. The only difference is that the MG13 variant has an additional "tooth" on the front. Look, don't be confused they, lol. A similar, but not compatible design is Fedorov, because he studied a carbine captured in France in 1916. I also think that the very first automatic rifles of Fedorov (6.5mm) should have had simpler magazines without stamping this sample, but these, unfortunately, did not survive. --Slon95 (talk) 18:47, 12 September 2021 (EDT)/--Slon95 (talk) 13:38, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
- Fedorov writes: "Examining the individual parts laid out on the table in the room of the French Ministry of War, I noticed a serial number stamped on them - 244. This showed that the captured rifle belonged to the first batch of those five hundred copies, the order of which I knew about before the war." "It didn't take me long to notice that the most important and most secret detail, namely the slider, on the device of which the system's automation is based, was not here. - And where is the slider? I asked the officers. “We don’t have any more parts. Probably a German pilot threw it out at the time of the crash." “What a curse! I thought. - The slider is as if bewitched. It is not given to me in any way." Even on the eve of the war, during one of my business trips to Germany, I tried to get this most important part of the Mauser automatic rifle. However, this did not succeed - the Germans kept the slider device in the strictest confidence." "The automatic opening of the bolt in the Mauser rifle was based on movement, or, as we said, on "jerking", when firing a special part, usually called a slider." --Slon95 (talk) 23:42, 12 September 2021 (EDT)
- The infantry versions are at the level of serial numbers ~ 200 from the well-known model, the carbine versions are at ~ 400 (I have not seen any other early ranges). Mauser #566 produced in 1917, at a later stage. In any case, the ends do not fit together, unless the Germans start numbered them from more early prototypes. I am sure that the gun that Fedorov saw was a rifle, not a carbine. --Slon95 (talk) 00:03, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
- The detachable magazine was apparently developed in 1909, just after 06-08, and the patent was approved in 1911. --Slon95 (talk) 11:29, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
- Edit: 25-round fixed one are on 06-08 (I specifically compared to scale). Interestingly, a similar magazine extension will be released for the regular bolt action Gew.98 in WWI. M1915/1916 magazine for 25 rounds, because contrary to the claims of advertising agents, it is the same design. The only difference is that the MG13 variant has an additional "tooth" on the front. Look, don't be confused they, lol. A similar, but not compatible design is Fedorov, because he studied a carbine captured in France in 1916. I also think that the very first automatic rifles of Fedorov (6.5mm) should have had simpler magazines without stamping this sample, but these, unfortunately, did not survive. --Slon95 (talk) 18:47, 12 September 2021 (EDT)/--Slon95 (talk) 13:38, 13 September 2021 (EDT)
- Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure that the magazine capacity is 20 rounds, considering how it's, as far as anyone can tell, basically an MG13 magazine (although, considering the dates involved, it might be more appropriate to say that the MG13 uses Mauser magazines). Thoughts? Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 09:31, 21 April 2018 (EDT)
- I'd go with the article over the video, I think Ian does these videos from memory rather than reading a script and something like "600 M1916s and 400 carbines" can easily become "they made 600 and 400 were carbines"." Evil Tim (talk) 09:22, 21 April 2018 (EDT)