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Talk:The Killers (1964): Difference between revisions
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Here you go. Unfortunately it's blued and not nickel.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 12:55, 28 January 2013 (EST) | Here you go. Unfortunately it's blued and not nickel.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 12:55, 28 January 2013 (EST) | ||
[[File:S&WLadysmithMframe.jpg|none|400px|thumb|]] | [[File:S&WLadysmithMframe.jpg|none|400px|thumb|]] | ||
Here is a nickel model. On closer examination it might not be a Ladysmith which is also known as the M frame and went out of production before WWII. They're real big with collectors. Small framed revolvers. Cute and expensive.S&W didn't start numbering their models until 1957. Any guns before that year were named. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 12:59, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
[[File:NickelS&WLadysmith.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]] | |||
:But then again it might be. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 13:01, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
::Thanks! --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:02, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
:No problem. Researching revolvers is one of my favorite pastimes. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 13:04, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
::I posted the screencap of the clamshell holster because I knew you're into old police equipment and might get a kick out of it. I had to do a little research myself. I can't believe they ever thought it was a good idea. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:11, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
:::My father started as a cop in 1970 (law enforcement career was from 1970-1994) and was issued two different types of holster - his choice. One was the clamshell and the other was the old Bill Jordan designed Border Patrol holster which was made of steel (covered in leather) and real stiff leather. It also hung down low and was on a swivel. The Border Patrol holster made for a real fast draw. Neither was good for security of the gun. Dad went with the Border PAtrol holster. In his earlier years he fancied himself a quickdraw. I now have that very holster. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 22:28, 28 January 2013 (EST) | |||
::::From what I can tell, the clamshell was overly secure, unless of course it popped open and your piece dropped on the pavement. Is a strap and snap not enough for police work? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:55, 30 January 2013 (EST) | |||
::See if I understand your question. What is needed for a police holster is a design which is grab resistant. Forty and fifty years ago many cops were kiled with their own handguns. The holsters were easy to defeat and the bad guys could grab the guns without any effort.Cops figured out that it wasn't enough just to have a holster that would hold the handgun. We needed one that was also difficult to operate if not approached from a certain angle. The clamshell holster could be defeated pretty easily if you knew where to find the latch. Also when the holster got a bit worn they were known to just pop open and whoops - there goes the gun. In many cases they (the bad guys) practiced grabbing guns. There is an old saying in law enforcement. "Remember no matter where you go there is always at least one gun present - yours". The bad guys know this. | |||
My holster is a Safariland Level 3. There are two straps that have to be unsnapped simultaneously and then the pistol has to be drawn up while also being tilted back. If you try drawing the pistol either straight up or back it won't budge. With a little practice you can get the three steps down, but you need to have the holster on your belt. If you are trying to snatch the gun from behind the officer or to the side it's very difficult to do. Trsut me I've tried in training. Is the holster foolproof? No. And yes there have been cases where the BG has gotten the pisol, but it's harder and often when the BG is trying the officer has a chance to beat the shit out of the suspect and stop the grab. It's a felony to even make an attempt in Idaho. Just touching an officer's sidearm could get a person arrested. One time a few years ago I slapped a young man's hand pretty forcefully when he "playfully" put his hand on my pistol. Now he was just being a stupid teenager, but he got the point. His father ,who was standing right there, had no sympathy fro him either. Dad told him that if it had been him he would have punched him in the face. | |||
There are newer holster designs now. But I've been carrying the Safariland 3 for the past twelve years. I know the design and I trust it. Also I'm pretty good with it so I'll stick with it as long as I can. So far my department is letting those of us who are shellback conservatives stick with the older design. Of course the other big thing about retaining your handgun is being aware of your surroundigns and not let anybody get close to your sidearm. Sometimes as a cop that isn't always the easiest thing to do. Especially when you are in among a big crowd. Fortunately most people are not bad and actually go out of their way to give me a little space when I'm in uniform. | |||
Does this answer your question? If not let me know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 10:47, 31 January 2013 (EST) | |||
:Makes sense. I have a police surplus Safariland FXD for my GP100, and its features all make sense now. It's a front break, and it's impossible to draw from the rear, even with the snap open. (It also explains why I have so much trouble with it, I've been drawing incorrectly all these years.) Thanks! --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:56, 31 January 2013 (EST) | |||
Anytime. Like I've said in the past there a many strange ideas and misconceptions when it comes to police and our methods and training. I'm always happy to talk to folks and explain things. I figure I'm doing my bit. If you have some understanding it can explain why cops sometimes act the way that they do. All to often we (the cops) aren't very good at explaining ourselves. Don't know why. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 11:01, 31 January 2013 (EST) | |||
I'm enjoying the holster conversation. I usually wear a Galco shoulder holster for my Charter Arms .38. Makes for a good cross-draw when I'm carrying, which is pretty much next to never. --[[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 12:01, 31 January 2013 (EST) | |||
:I understand. There are times when I have to force myself to carry. And once in awhile I leave it at home. I know, I know, all the dead cops in the world just turned over in their graves. Typically whenever I start to slack off there is some hi-profile shooting somewhere in the U.S. and I start carrying again on a consistent basis. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 20:24, 2 February 2013 (EST) | |||
Latest revision as of 21:39, 28 July 2023
Unknowns
I'm not sure of these are identifiable, but it's worth a try. --Funkychinaman (talk) 06:41, 27 January 2013 (EST)
Unknown revolver 1
Mickey Farmer (Norman Fell) uses an unknown revolver during the holdup.
Unknown revolver 2
Lee (Clu Gulager) pulls a revolver off of Browning's display and plays with it.
Possibly it's a Smith & Wesson Ladysmith in 32 S&W. Looks like it has a nickel plating as well. --Jcordell (talk) 12:08, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- I don't supposed you'd know the model number. All the images of .32 Ladysmiths I can find online are snub-nosed. --Funkychinaman (talk) 12:24, 28 January 2013 (EST)
Here you go. Unfortunately it's blued and not nickel.--Jcordell (talk) 12:55, 28 January 2013 (EST)
Here is a nickel model. On closer examination it might not be a Ladysmith which is also known as the M frame and went out of production before WWII. They're real big with collectors. Small framed revolvers. Cute and expensive.S&W didn't start numbering their models until 1957. Any guns before that year were named. --Jcordell (talk) 12:59, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- But then again it might be. --Jcordell (talk) 13:01, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- Thanks! --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:02, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- No problem. Researching revolvers is one of my favorite pastimes. --Jcordell (talk) 13:04, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- I posted the screencap of the clamshell holster because I knew you're into old police equipment and might get a kick out of it. I had to do a little research myself. I can't believe they ever thought it was a good idea. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- My father started as a cop in 1970 (law enforcement career was from 1970-1994) and was issued two different types of holster - his choice. One was the clamshell and the other was the old Bill Jordan designed Border Patrol holster which was made of steel (covered in leather) and real stiff leather. It also hung down low and was on a swivel. The Border Patrol holster made for a real fast draw. Neither was good for security of the gun. Dad went with the Border PAtrol holster. In his earlier years he fancied himself a quickdraw. I now have that very holster. --Jcordell (talk) 22:28, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- From what I can tell, the clamshell was overly secure, unless of course it popped open and your piece dropped on the pavement. Is a strap and snap not enough for police work? --Funkychinaman (talk) 21:55, 30 January 2013 (EST)
- My father started as a cop in 1970 (law enforcement career was from 1970-1994) and was issued two different types of holster - his choice. One was the clamshell and the other was the old Bill Jordan designed Border Patrol holster which was made of steel (covered in leather) and real stiff leather. It also hung down low and was on a swivel. The Border Patrol holster made for a real fast draw. Neither was good for security of the gun. Dad went with the Border PAtrol holster. In his earlier years he fancied himself a quickdraw. I now have that very holster. --Jcordell (talk) 22:28, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- I posted the screencap of the clamshell holster because I knew you're into old police equipment and might get a kick out of it. I had to do a little research myself. I can't believe they ever thought it was a good idea. --Funkychinaman (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2013 (EST)
- See if I understand your question. What is needed for a police holster is a design which is grab resistant. Forty and fifty years ago many cops were kiled with their own handguns. The holsters were easy to defeat and the bad guys could grab the guns without any effort.Cops figured out that it wasn't enough just to have a holster that would hold the handgun. We needed one that was also difficult to operate if not approached from a certain angle. The clamshell holster could be defeated pretty easily if you knew where to find the latch. Also when the holster got a bit worn they were known to just pop open and whoops - there goes the gun. In many cases they (the bad guys) practiced grabbing guns. There is an old saying in law enforcement. "Remember no matter where you go there is always at least one gun present - yours". The bad guys know this.
My holster is a Safariland Level 3. There are two straps that have to be unsnapped simultaneously and then the pistol has to be drawn up while also being tilted back. If you try drawing the pistol either straight up or back it won't budge. With a little practice you can get the three steps down, but you need to have the holster on your belt. If you are trying to snatch the gun from behind the officer or to the side it's very difficult to do. Trsut me I've tried in training. Is the holster foolproof? No. And yes there have been cases where the BG has gotten the pisol, but it's harder and often when the BG is trying the officer has a chance to beat the shit out of the suspect and stop the grab. It's a felony to even make an attempt in Idaho. Just touching an officer's sidearm could get a person arrested. One time a few years ago I slapped a young man's hand pretty forcefully when he "playfully" put his hand on my pistol. Now he was just being a stupid teenager, but he got the point. His father ,who was standing right there, had no sympathy fro him either. Dad told him that if it had been him he would have punched him in the face.
There are newer holster designs now. But I've been carrying the Safariland 3 for the past twelve years. I know the design and I trust it. Also I'm pretty good with it so I'll stick with it as long as I can. So far my department is letting those of us who are shellback conservatives stick with the older design. Of course the other big thing about retaining your handgun is being aware of your surroundigns and not let anybody get close to your sidearm. Sometimes as a cop that isn't always the easiest thing to do. Especially when you are in among a big crowd. Fortunately most people are not bad and actually go out of their way to give me a little space when I'm in uniform.
Does this answer your question? If not let me know. --Jcordell (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2013 (EST)
- Makes sense. I have a police surplus Safariland FXD for my GP100, and its features all make sense now. It's a front break, and it's impossible to draw from the rear, even with the snap open. (It also explains why I have so much trouble with it, I've been drawing incorrectly all these years.) Thanks! --Funkychinaman (talk) 10:56, 31 January 2013 (EST)
Anytime. Like I've said in the past there a many strange ideas and misconceptions when it comes to police and our methods and training. I'm always happy to talk to folks and explain things. I figure I'm doing my bit. If you have some understanding it can explain why cops sometimes act the way that they do. All to often we (the cops) aren't very good at explaining ourselves. Don't know why. --Jcordell (talk) 11:01, 31 January 2013 (EST)
I'm enjoying the holster conversation. I usually wear a Galco shoulder holster for my Charter Arms .38. Makes for a good cross-draw when I'm carrying, which is pretty much next to never. --Scattergun 12:01, 31 January 2013 (EST)
- I understand. There are times when I have to force myself to carry. And once in awhile I leave it at home. I know, I know, all the dead cops in the world just turned over in their graves. Typically whenever I start to slack off there is some hi-profile shooting somewhere in the U.S. and I start carrying again on a consistent basis. --Jcordell (talk) 20:24, 2 February 2013 (EST)