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IMFDB talk:Style Guide: Difference between revisions

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{{WIP}}
=Discussion=
=Work Area=
 
==Media titles==
*Could we include a note on confusing the ''player'' and the ''player character'' in video games? It always bugs me when I'm reading a page and it says "the player holds an X." The player is the one who holds the controller, presses buttons, makes decisions, etc, it's the player character who picks up, holds, shoots, etc. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:55, 10 January 2013 (EST)
*All media titles must have cover art or a poster. All cover art or posters must be at least 300 pixels wide, preferably portrait.  
::Why not just refer to the player character by name? "Mason takes a ..." "Section picks up a ..." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 03:01, 10 January 2013 (EST)
:::Yeah, I mean generally. I see quite a few captions which use "the player" to refer to something the character is doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:08, 10 January 2013 (EST)
 
== Subtitles ==


*Infoboxes are optional. If used, please use the appropriate template.  
"Closed captions and subtitles in the screencaps should be avoided if at all possible." This doesn't apply to games, right? Because I always play with the  subs on. Tim's caps also have them. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 09:06, 11 January 2013 (EST)
:Sorry, I wasn't thinking of games. Subtitles should be avoided in film and television (and maybe anime?). --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (EST)
::Yeah, I like having caps on in games because it sometimes gives you something to comment on (either dialog errors or just generally). Since the standards for captions in live-action are tighter, there's not much point having them there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:24, 14 January 2013 (EST)
:::Most DVDs and Blu-Rays give you the option of turning them off. It's just one step to turn it off before taking the screencap. Foreign films on Netflix have them burned in, however, so it's unavoidable. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:18, 14 January 2013 (EST)


*If infoboxes are not used, the cover art or poster is to be right justified and set to 300 pixels. (<nowiki>[[Image:<Poster>.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''<Title>'' (<year>)]]</nowiki>)
== Shows split into seasons ==


*Level 2 headings should be the default setting for weapons. (for example, <nowiki>== Colt Detective Special == </nowiki>). Level 1 headings should be used when differentiating different types of weapons, Level 3 for variation of the same weapon.
First off, just wondering if there is any rule as to when a show should be split into seasons or not? Secondly, if an actor is a regular in a show that has split seasons, should each season be treated as a separate entry in terms of filling in their weapons table? Same question for gun pages. I would say to treat them as separate entries, as otherwise it makes it difficult to navigate from one article to the other. As to when to split a page I don't really know, was just curious if there had been a consensus on this yet. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:28, 5 February 2013 (EST)
:I agree with separate entries. As for when to split, I guess someone has to make the determination after season 1, based on what kind of show it is. I think this is the sort of thing you have to play by ear. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:48, 5 February 2013 (EST)


*"Full-Screen" (4x3 ratio) screencaps should be set at 500 pixels, everything else should be 600 pixels, with justification set to none.
== A few suggestions ==


*Actors holding weapons should be identified and hyperlinked (if possible) at least once on a media page. ("James Bond ([[Roger Moore]]) uses a ...", "Militant #2 ([[Darrel Heath]]) uses a ...")
* General
When starting a page, put a <nowiki>{{WIP}}</nowiki> if you plan to continue the work on the page in near future. Put a <nowiki>{{Incomplete}}</nowiki> if you have finished your own work but you know that the page is still incomplete.
:Users purposely creating incomplete pages from the get-go is a pet peeve of mine. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:07, 7 February 2013 (EST)
:: OK, I agree, the second part is unnecessary. And what about the using of WIP tag? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 02:12, 8 February 2013 (EST)
* Screencaps
Avoid using screenshots taken from YouTube or other similar web servicies because they are generally of low quality.


*Identified weapons should be hyperlinked at least once on the page. ("A [[Browning M2HB]] is seen mounted...")
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 01:57, 7 February 2013 (EST)
:Personally, I'd be fine with a ban on youtube caps, but I'm not sure everyone agrees. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:07, 7 February 2013 (EST)
::I would disagree, as youtube is pretty much the only way to get trailer caps for upcoming movies. Also if the choice is between youtube caps and none at all, I'd prefer youtube ones. They don't necessarily look poor, check out [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/History_Channel:_Battle_for_the_Pacific,_The this] page. The page had no caps at all and I got all of these from a youtube clip and they are not that bad (they are certainly better than none at all).  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:05, 7 February 2013 (EST)
:::Oh yeah, I forgot about that page. I don't think Greg was referring to games or trailers though. What about stuff that never got a DVD release and is only available on VHS?Some of the transfers are awful, sometimes in the wrong aspect ration and I'm not sure it's 100% legal. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:06, 7 February 2013 (EST)
:::: Of course I didn't mention trailers. Only such screenshots as in ''[[Network]]'', for example. Maybe a new category can be created: "Pages with low quality images"? So that anyone who has a movie in better quality could know that this page needs better images. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 02:12, 8 February 2013 (EST)


*An image of any identified weapon must be present, unless one is not available. Weapon images must be set to at least 300 pixels, with justification set to none.
::::: If you're looking at the site on a computer and not a portable device, you can see if this screencaps are low quality.  If you click the "Change Quality" of the YouTube clip in the lower right and it doesn't go beyond 480p, the clip is generally going to be of too low quality to screencap.   I would only consider this if there were no DVD or higher sources that can be obtained. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 02:22, 8 February 2013 (EST)
::::::I think a lot of users interpret "no DVD or higher sources that can be obtained" to be "I don't feel like paying for Netflix or going to a Redbox or Blockbuster." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:08, 8 February 2013 (EST)


*Hyperlinks do not belong in the headings or subheadings.  
==Movie quotes==
This is a good page, glad to see a more explicit notation of some things. That said, I've been going through some pages and making any quotes said in the page by characters/etc italicized with quotation marks (Example - ''"Yep, a Beretta - there it is!"''). I hope that is ok, it helps differentiate it since TV episodes have just quotations while titles use italicized text. I know generally we don't need quotes but I find them ok if they're good quotes and especially if they're weapons related. There are a couple I've deleted since they aren;t needed or spoliers but generally I think quotes are ok so again, hope this helps make them different from the other stuff. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 21:57, 5 August 2013 (EDT)


*Spoilers should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. If absolutely necessary, please use <nowiki> {{Spoiler}} </nowiki> at the top of the page.
== The size of thumbnails on Actor pages ==


=Discussion=
The current rule says that "Thumbnails of actor images should be right justified and set to between 400 and 500 pixels". According to my own experience (more that 1000 created actor page), it seems to me that 400 px is the best size while 450 or 500 px is too large and leaves less space for tables. I don't insist on this suggestion but I think that it can be discussed. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:09, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
:I think the allowance was put there to account for different aspect ratios, like screenshot thumbnail sizes. Keep in mind, the way a page appears is all subjective based on your personal screen resolution. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 15:17, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
::You are right, I really had not thought that different people has different screens. Maybe it makes sense to add something like "... between 400 and 500 pixels, ''preferably 400''"? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:55, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
:: In some cases there are promo pics used that measure closer to posters rather than screenshots so in those cases 500px width can be unnecessary. I find 500 works better on widescreen screenshots and the such, closer to 400 works fine for promo pics or fullscreen. I agree table room should be kept in consideration. Just my thoughts of course. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:56, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
:::300px for portrait pictures, 400px for landscape then? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 16:58, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
:::: That sounds great to me, though I wouldn't mind 450 in some cases like anamorphic shots or the such, just depends. Mainly I feel it should be a case of best judgment, same as most everything else. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 17:00, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
 
== Order of gun listings on actor pages and media pages ==
 
Have we ever come up with a standard for how to list guns on actor pages where they use multiple weapons in the same film/series? As far as I can see there would be 4 different ways of doing it: the order they are used by the actor in the film/series, alphabetically and then the order they are listed on a page that is split into sections with each section being either chronological or alphabetical depending on what the page author did. Related to this, what is the preferred order to list weapons on media pages? I favour listing them in chronological appearance as this seems the better way in terms of helping people who are coming to the site to try and ID a weapon, but some people list them alphabetically.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:25, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
:I always went with chronologically or by importance on media pages. Hero guns first, if any, then chronologically. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:33, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
::I use the same order they are listed on the movie page: revolvers, pistols, SMGs, shotguns, rifles etc. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 12:42, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
::: I think chronological listings would mainly work in the case of TV series, especially if there are individual season pages where you can pinpoint them better. If they re-use one particular firearm I usually only make one entry and note the different seasons/episodes (not always though). Films on the other hand.. I'm not sure chronological works in that case. I would generally default with alphabetical but perhaps going in order of the listings on the film page might be easier. Any prominent or hero pieces should have priority though, I agree. Otherwise, not sure - either way would be fine with me. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 14:30, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I think going totally chronologically works a lot better for the TV show listings, [[Michelle Lukes|here]] is an example of one arranged like this. Listing them sections at a time means that the season 4 episode numbers go 3, 5, 7, 2, 4, 6 rather than this more logical (to me anyway) progression. I'm also looking for feedback with something I'm trying out which is the splits I have put in in the note sections where the same gun is used in different episodes but with different configurations. Good? Bad? Too complicated? I'm not sure what to do about the order for movie usage though, as chronologically would be hard to consolidate across sections without having the time stamp recorded. I would lean towards alphabetical in a film (with her guns at the top as usual), as it is from a single production as opposed to TV where you are talking about an ongoing thing spanning months. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:35, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
 
==Em dashes, multiplication symbols==
Both glad and kinda sad that had to be enumerated, but at least now it can be pointed out in IMFDB's 'policy' and all that. I can't believe people make such a big damn deal about that when I have seen some pages that don't even have tables and such (Umm, I've been busy..). It's not like there are a lot of dashes/hyphens or multiplication symbols/x's around anyway (let alone places where they'd be used). That's something that can be done later once bigger things are done first. I had thought that point was kinda obvious myself, but it seems some folks need things spelled out. Bah. Anyway, good idea to have it, so, thanks I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 21:46, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
:Thus is the sort of thing that justifies having a style guide, since I think using em/en dashes and multiplication symbols is technically correct. We're just not using them, because that's our thing. The style guide allows us to get a lot of these little rules in writing. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:34, 24 June 2014 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 18:16, 9 September 2023

Discussion

  • Could we include a note on confusing the player and the player character in video games? It always bugs me when I'm reading a page and it says "the player holds an X." The player is the one who holds the controller, presses buttons, makes decisions, etc, it's the player character who picks up, holds, shoots, etc. Evil Tim (talk) 02:55, 10 January 2013 (EST)
Why not just refer to the player character by name? "Mason takes a ..." "Section picks up a ..." --Funkychinaman (talk) 03:01, 10 January 2013 (EST)
Yeah, I mean generally. I see quite a few captions which use "the player" to refer to something the character is doing. Evil Tim (talk) 03:08, 10 January 2013 (EST)

Subtitles

"Closed captions and subtitles in the screencaps should be avoided if at all possible." This doesn't apply to games, right? Because I always play with the subs on. Tim's caps also have them. - bozitojugg3rn4ut (talk) 09:06, 11 January 2013 (EST)

Sorry, I wasn't thinking of games. Subtitles should be avoided in film and television (and maybe anime?). --Funkychinaman (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (EST)
Yeah, I like having caps on in games because it sometimes gives you something to comment on (either dialog errors or just generally). Since the standards for captions in live-action are tighter, there's not much point having them there. Evil Tim (talk) 09:24, 14 January 2013 (EST)
Most DVDs and Blu-Rays give you the option of turning them off. It's just one step to turn it off before taking the screencap. Foreign films on Netflix have them burned in, however, so it's unavoidable. --Funkychinaman (talk) 10:18, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Shows split into seasons

First off, just wondering if there is any rule as to when a show should be split into seasons or not? Secondly, if an actor is a regular in a show that has split seasons, should each season be treated as a separate entry in terms of filling in their weapons table? Same question for gun pages. I would say to treat them as separate entries, as otherwise it makes it difficult to navigate from one article to the other. As to when to split a page I don't really know, was just curious if there had been a consensus on this yet. --commando552 (talk) 17:28, 5 February 2013 (EST)

I agree with separate entries. As for when to split, I guess someone has to make the determination after season 1, based on what kind of show it is. I think this is the sort of thing you have to play by ear. --Funkychinaman (talk) 18:48, 5 February 2013 (EST)

A few suggestions

  • General

When starting a page, put a {{WIP}} if you plan to continue the work on the page in near future. Put a {{Incomplete}} if you have finished your own work but you know that the page is still incomplete.

Users purposely creating incomplete pages from the get-go is a pet peeve of mine. --Funkychinaman (talk) 02:07, 7 February 2013 (EST)
OK, I agree, the second part is unnecessary. And what about the using of WIP tag? Greg-Z (talk) 02:12, 8 February 2013 (EST)
  • Screencaps

Avoid using screenshots taken from YouTube or other similar web servicies because they are generally of low quality.

- Greg-Z (talk) 01:57, 7 February 2013 (EST)

Personally, I'd be fine with a ban on youtube caps, but I'm not sure everyone agrees. --Funkychinaman (talk) 02:07, 7 February 2013 (EST)
I would disagree, as youtube is pretty much the only way to get trailer caps for upcoming movies. Also if the choice is between youtube caps and none at all, I'd prefer youtube ones. They don't necessarily look poor, check out this page. The page had no caps at all and I got all of these from a youtube clip and they are not that bad (they are certainly better than none at all). --commando552 (talk) 04:05, 7 February 2013 (EST)
Oh yeah, I forgot about that page. I don't think Greg was referring to games or trailers though. What about stuff that never got a DVD release and is only available on VHS?Some of the transfers are awful, sometimes in the wrong aspect ration and I'm not sure it's 100% legal. --Funkychinaman (talk) 12:06, 7 February 2013 (EST)
Of course I didn't mention trailers. Only such screenshots as in Network, for example. Maybe a new category can be created: "Pages with low quality images"? So that anyone who has a movie in better quality could know that this page needs better images. Greg-Z (talk) 02:12, 8 February 2013 (EST)
If you're looking at the site on a computer and not a portable device, you can see if this screencaps are low quality. If you click the "Change Quality" of the YouTube clip in the lower right and it doesn't go beyond 480p, the clip is generally going to be of too low quality to screencap. I would only consider this if there were no DVD or higher sources that can be obtained. --Ben41 (talk) 02:22, 8 February 2013 (EST)
I think a lot of users interpret "no DVD or higher sources that can be obtained" to be "I don't feel like paying for Netflix or going to a Redbox or Blockbuster." --Funkychinaman (talk) 11:08, 8 February 2013 (EST)

Movie quotes

This is a good page, glad to see a more explicit notation of some things. That said, I've been going through some pages and making any quotes said in the page by characters/etc italicized with quotation marks (Example - "Yep, a Beretta - there it is!"). I hope that is ok, it helps differentiate it since TV episodes have just quotations while titles use italicized text. I know generally we don't need quotes but I find them ok if they're good quotes and especially if they're weapons related. There are a couple I've deleted since they aren;t needed or spoliers but generally I think quotes are ok so again, hope this helps make them different from the other stuff. StanTheMan (talk) 21:57, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

The size of thumbnails on Actor pages

The current rule says that "Thumbnails of actor images should be right justified and set to between 400 and 500 pixels". According to my own experience (more that 1000 created actor page), it seems to me that 400 px is the best size while 450 or 500 px is too large and leaves less space for tables. I don't insist on this suggestion but I think that it can be discussed. Greg-Z (talk) 15:09, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

I think the allowance was put there to account for different aspect ratios, like screenshot thumbnail sizes. Keep in mind, the way a page appears is all subjective based on your personal screen resolution. --Funkychinaman (talk) 15:17, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
You are right, I really had not thought that different people has different screens. Maybe it makes sense to add something like "... between 400 and 500 pixels, preferably 400"? Greg-Z (talk) 15:55, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
In some cases there are promo pics used that measure closer to posters rather than screenshots so in those cases 500px width can be unnecessary. I find 500 works better on widescreen screenshots and the such, closer to 400 works fine for promo pics or fullscreen. I agree table room should be kept in consideration. Just my thoughts of course. StanTheMan (talk) 16:56, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
300px for portrait pictures, 400px for landscape then? --Funkychinaman (talk) 16:58, 22 September 2013 (EDT)
That sounds great to me, though I wouldn't mind 450 in some cases like anamorphic shots or the such, just depends. Mainly I feel it should be a case of best judgment, same as most everything else. StanTheMan (talk) 17:00, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

Order of gun listings on actor pages and media pages

Have we ever come up with a standard for how to list guns on actor pages where they use multiple weapons in the same film/series? As far as I can see there would be 4 different ways of doing it: the order they are used by the actor in the film/series, alphabetically and then the order they are listed on a page that is split into sections with each section being either chronological or alphabetical depending on what the page author did. Related to this, what is the preferred order to list weapons on media pages? I favour listing them in chronological appearance as this seems the better way in terms of helping people who are coming to the site to try and ID a weapon, but some people list them alphabetically. --commando552 (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I always went with chronologically or by importance on media pages. Hero guns first, if any, then chronologically. --Funkychinaman (talk) 12:33, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
I use the same order they are listed on the movie page: revolvers, pistols, SMGs, shotguns, rifles etc. Greg-Z (talk) 12:42, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
I think chronological listings would mainly work in the case of TV series, especially if there are individual season pages where you can pinpoint them better. If they re-use one particular firearm I usually only make one entry and note the different seasons/episodes (not always though). Films on the other hand.. I'm not sure chronological works in that case. I would generally default with alphabetical but perhaps going in order of the listings on the film page might be easier. Any prominent or hero pieces should have priority though, I agree. Otherwise, not sure - either way would be fine with me. StanTheMan (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
I think going totally chronologically works a lot better for the TV show listings, here is an example of one arranged like this. Listing them sections at a time means that the season 4 episode numbers go 3, 5, 7, 2, 4, 6 rather than this more logical (to me anyway) progression. I'm also looking for feedback with something I'm trying out which is the splits I have put in in the note sections where the same gun is used in different episodes but with different configurations. Good? Bad? Too complicated? I'm not sure what to do about the order for movie usage though, as chronologically would be hard to consolidate across sections without having the time stamp recorded. I would lean towards alphabetical in a film (with her guns at the top as usual), as it is from a single production as opposed to TV where you are talking about an ongoing thing spanning months. --commando552 (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

Em dashes, multiplication symbols

Both glad and kinda sad that had to be enumerated, but at least now it can be pointed out in IMFDB's 'policy' and all that. I can't believe people make such a big damn deal about that when I have seen some pages that don't even have tables and such (Umm, I've been busy..). It's not like there are a lot of dashes/hyphens or multiplication symbols/x's around anyway (let alone places where they'd be used). That's something that can be done later once bigger things are done first. I had thought that point was kinda obvious myself, but it seems some folks need things spelled out. Bah. Anyway, good idea to have it, so, thanks I guess. StanTheMan (talk) 21:46, 24 June 2014 (EDT)

Thus is the sort of thing that justifies having a style guide, since I think using em/en dashes and multiplication symbols is technically correct. We're just not using them, because that's our thing. The style guide allows us to get a lot of these little rules in writing. --Funkychinaman (talk) 23:34, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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