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User talk:Rufford: Difference between revisions
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''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST) | ''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST) | ||
::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST) | |||
:::[[File:PatriotvsMP5.JPG|400px]] | |||
:::The Patriot was designed to replace the H&K MP5 with an intermediate round firearm of similar size. Many armed forces use MP5s, don't pretend there is no place for a firearm this size that uses a more effective round than 9mm. The full auto receivers RMAI produced were made after 1986, therefore not transferable for civilians. So these were only sold to the Military and Law Enforcement. The Patriot pistol had since been manufactured so that it may be sold to civilians --[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST) | |||
: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST) | : On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST) | ||
::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST) | |||
:::RMAI did indeed make A1 receivers for the patriot, and it is foolish to think that nobody ever put a beta c-mag in a patriot until it showed up in a video game in 2004. --[[User:Rufford|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST) | |||
Latest revision as of 23:38, 27 November 2012
Patriot
The RMA Patriot is not a "machine gun;" we use the proper definition of the term rather than the legal (under which a bent piece of metal or a shoelace can be classified as machine guns) and the Patriot is a compact semi-automatic carbine. While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually bought such a thing, and it's more correct to say any Patriot you're likely to see in media either is semi-auto or was manufactured as a semi-auto and then converted by a movie armourer.
The MGS3 / 4 "Patriot" has some resemblance to a RMA Patriot in terms of overall configuration, but also a fair few differences, which is why we don't list it there; it's not listed under M231 Firing Port Weapon either. Evil Tim (talk) 11:17, 25 November 2012 (EST)
- This is why I reverted your MGS 3 edit. Evil Tim sums it up perfectly. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 11:35, 25 November 2012 (EST)
While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually bought such a thing- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--Rufford (talk) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)
- They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. Evil Tim (talk) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)
- Error creating thumbnail: File missing
- The Patriot was designed to replace the H&K MP5 with an intermediate round firearm of similar size. Many armed forces use MP5s, don't pretend there is no place for a firearm this size that uses a more effective round than 9mm. The full auto receivers RMAI produced were made after 1986, therefore not transferable for civilians. So these were only sold to the Military and Law Enforcement. The Patriot pistol had since been manufactured so that it may be sold to civilians --Rufford (talk) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST)
- On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--Rufford (talk) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)
- Because it doesn't look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The only Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. Evil Tim (talk) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)