Talk:GoldenEye 007: Difference between revisions
Talk:GoldenEye 007: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:GoldenEye 007: Difference between revisions
*I'm somebody. And if there's no reason to do it one way or the other, why not do it the way I suggest? [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
*I'm somebody. And if there's no reason to do it one way or the other, why not do it the way I suggest? [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
*Valant 6/6/12 11:05 A.M PST*
"There's no reason to do it one way or another. This is an asinine topic, probably best to just leave it alone until somebody actually complains about it. [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]"
Well then fine, I also agree that this should be redone, all other pages have done this format and works fine: Pistols, SMG's, Shotguns, Rifles, Explosives, and Miscellaneous. Hope it helps!
== Automatic Shotgun ==
== Automatic Shotgun ==
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:::What I've done now appears to be a sensible solution. Maybe this way of labelling things can be used in other video game articles. [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]] 23:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:::What I've done now appears to be a sensible solution. Maybe this way of labelling things can be used in other video game articles. [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]] 23:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Ain't nobody fucking asking you your opinion! Stuff it!
=='''Rocket Launcher'''==
=='''Rocket Launcher'''==
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It looks like an [[RPG-2]]. - --[[Special:Contributions/98.239.44.93|98.239.44.93]] 00:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
It looks like an [[RPG-2]]. - --[[Special:Contributions/98.239.44.93|98.239.44.93]] 00:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
It looks absolutely nothing like an RPG. Also it has in internal warhead, not an external one. It looks like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle. --[[User:Mcswan|Mcswan]] ([[User talk:Mcswan|talk]]) 02:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
M2
[[Image:CarlGustavM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
M3
[[Image:CarlGustavM3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Can this page be un-locked to replace the RPG with "Rocket Launcher" that resembles a Carl Gustaf? --[[User:Mcswan|Mcswan]] ([[User talk:Mcswan|talk]]) 02:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
==Cougar Magnum/Ruger Redhawk text==
==Cougar Magnum/Ruger Redhawk text==
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Notice the shape of the grip and the horizontal lines. [[User:BurtReynoldsMoustache|BurtReynoldsMoustache]] 23:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Notice the shape of the grip and the horizontal lines. [[User:BurtReynoldsMoustache|BurtReynoldsMoustache]] 23:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
: Plus there is also the mag plate that sticks out, the safety catch (which the Tokarev lacks), and the Tokagypt has a less pronounced step-down between the receiver and the bottom of the barrel. With all of these details, I think that it should be listed as a Tokagypt on the page. --[[User:Mcswan|Mcswan]] ([[User talk:Mcswan|talk]]) 02:28, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
== The real Grenade Launcher ==
== The real Grenade Launcher ==
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The caliber on this page is inaccurate and must be changed here and on the Perfect Dark page. [[User:RugerLord|RugerLord]] 14:10, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The caliber on this page is inaccurate and must be changed here and on the Perfect Dark page. [[User:RugerLord|RugerLord]] 14:10, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The gun in the movie may or may not be .32/6.75 but the gun in the photograph is a .380 and to label it otherwise would be incorrect. It's just there as a visual example. [[User:Simsandwich|Simsandwich]] 14:33, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The gun in the movie may or may not be .32/7.65 but the gun in the photograph is a .380 and to label it otherwise would be incorrect. It's just there as a visual example. [[User:Simsandwich|Simsandwich]] 14:33, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
::[[Image:Waltherppk32acp.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] Well you're in luck then, it just so happens I have a visual example of bonds favorite .32 cal pistol. [[User:ColdSteel|ColdSteel]] 21:12, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
== (RC)P90 Inaccuracy ==
The caption under the RCP90 image states the weapon is not available on the Train level without cheats - this isn't true, as on the easier difficulties there is an RCP90 hidden in the last crate on the left hand side of the first carriage. I'd change the information myself but the page is locked.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 04:17, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:I changed the information. --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 21:58, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks, but you missed a bit, the caption still says "Bond '''cheats''' himself a P90 during the mission Train..." :) --[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 03:14, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::: Leigh Burne is correct, on Agent difficultly you will find an RCP90 in a box left of the door in the 1st train car, on Secret Agent you will find a DD44 in the same box. On 00 Agent you find nothing. No cheats needed for it to appear on Agent difficulty. [[User:ColdSteel|ColdSteel]] ([[User talk:ColdSteel|talk]]) 02:41, 8 January 2013 (EST)
== Locked page?==
Why is this page locked anyways? I was going to upload some new and better ingame images to the page, but for some reason its locked from edits *shrugs*. Why is that? Just a little annoying because I already pre-prepared most of the images...
--[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 01:42, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
:We had a guy who tended to edit only this page and had some, um, ''interesting'' ideas about how our articles should work. I've unlocked it temporarily so you can add the new images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:08, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks, Tim. And yes, I am still going to harass you until I know for sure whether you are indeed Evil Tim as I know, "Evil Tim" :3 --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 12:16, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
:::I just finished the edits, thanks again. Let me know if there is anything you don't like.--[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 14:47, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Feel free to replace the existing images too if you like, they've got black borders. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:50, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
:::::No problem, I'll work on replacing the existing image in a few hours. --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 13:48, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
::::::Sorry, my PC is having issues right now, so I can't replace those images yet. I'll let you know when I can get around to that. --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 16:09, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
== Development Builds and other versions of the game ==
Hello guys,
I would be really interested to see some of the mentioned weapons in the older builds of the game, what did they look like?
The reason for this is if you look at the box of the N64 game (at least the one available in Europe, not sure if it is globally) there is a screenshot of a weapon which is NOT in the game. It could be the mentioned alternative AK47 from an old build.
Is there any chance we could see the older versions of the guns from other builds please? [[User:Hchris|Hchris]]
:There are many sites on the web where you can find information on pre-release goldeneye stuff, such as betagoldeneye.com or Unseen64.net. Although I have seen info for pre-release stuff on the site, for example, the Half-Life 2 page has information about some of the weapons that where in the leaked build of that game. I will wait to see what older members of the site have to say on this topic, though. By the way, the gun seen on the back of the Goldeneye box, is the old AK-47. --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 21:25, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
On a similar subject, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRRuhviJGMQ half-hour of footage from the 90% complete XBLA remake]. Was apparently only two weeks of dev time from being finished when Nintendo pulled the plug. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:47, 17 December 2017 (EST)
== DD44 ==
The DD44 was named after Goldeneye designer David Doak. Please add this information. --[[User:Tamarin88|Tamarin88]] ([[User talk:Tamarin88|talk]]) 14:54, 12 April 2019 (EDT)
I'm not sure the inventory order is the best we can use.
While it's better having the weapons in some sort of order, the Goldeneye order is weird; for example, a revolver next to a sniper rifle and SMGs and assault rifles mixed up together for no good reason. I don't find this whole edit war thing productive, but I think it was in a better order the way I had it. Dongs 07:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
There's no reason to do it one way or another. This is an asinine topic, probably best to just leave it alone until somebody actually complains about it. PersonOfInterest
I'm somebody. And if there's no reason to do it one way or the other, why not do it the way I suggest? Dongs 07:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Valant 6/6/12 11:05 A.M PST*
"There's no reason to do it one way or another. This is an asinine topic, probably best to just leave it alone until somebody actually complains about it. PersonOfInterest"
Well then fine, I also agree that this should be redone, all other pages have done this format and works fine: Pistols, SMG's, Shotguns, Rifles, Explosives, and Miscellaneous. Hope it helps!
Automatic Shotgun
It's not a SPAS-12, it looks nothing like a SPAS-12, can we remove any mention of SPAS-12 from this article.
If you absolutely have to have to have to call it something, its a wood furniture Remington 1100 with a pistol grip, no stock, a sawed off barrel, and a Mossberg heat shield. Somebody do a mock up of that (it doesn't exist on GIS, I've looked) and do a comparison.
Still doesn't make it that though, so just keep it "Automatic Shotgun". PersonOfInterest
Most people seem to be able to see some SPAS-12 in it [we've got at least three who've added it or suggested it stay so far]. The heat shield plus that diagonal slant down onto it is the main point of comparison, though you're right it's a horrible resemblance and turns into a generic pump action as soon as you get past the heat shield. Also, if you want to mock up guns in photoshop, try this: http://avro504.hp.infoseek.co.jp/teppoo/gunicon.html
Also, the article doesn't say it's a SPAS-12 anymore, just that the front end has a couple of similarities. I might edit it to be even more clear that it certainly isn't a SPAS, and add this for proof:
Since that shows any similarity is purely confined to the front (as a side note, I especially like how the pump seems to travel all the way back to the pistol grip on what appears to be a shelf bracket which covers the trigger completely). A more simple evaluation: it's an FPS, it's an automatic shotgun. It's not a Jackhammer, so it's a SPAS. If it's not a SPAS then it's a USAS-12 and I don't think we should go there. Dongs 07:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, you messed up linking to your user page again. Sign with four tildes [~~~~] or format the link as [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]. Dongs 10:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
It's a shotgun in a video game it doesn't "have to" be anything. Let go of your SPAS 12 fantasy. PersonOfInterest
It seems the only person even remotely concerned with this is you. Give it a rest, the features are described as a "slight resemblance" in the article and that's all. Vangelis 07:30, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
BIG FAT SWEATY UPDATE
It's a Remington 1100. I remember posting in the forum discussion that *if* the "automatic shotgun" was anything, it was a Remington 1100 with a sawed off barrel, a pistol grip, no stock, and a heat shield. I searched and searched and it seemed such a gun did not exist, so i said "fudge it" and went home. Then I came across this little gem right here.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Goldeneye automatic shotgun is modelled after the gun used by Red Foreman to put a boot up Robocop's ass. "But the color of the forearm is different and that one has a folding stock" you say. AKMS's and SPECTRE M4's are supposed to have folding stocks too. P90's are supposed to be green. Point Game Checkmate. - POI
PS The pump-action shotgun so closely resembling the folding stock 870 from Terminator 2: Judgement Day backs up my theory IMSO (In My Smug Opinion)
Why is it OK to mention the pump shotgun resembling the 870 from Terminator 2: Judgement Day and that the sniper rifle resembles the WA2000 from The Living Daylights, but it is verboten to mention that the auto shotgun resembles the customized 1100 from RoboCop? None of them are specifically ID'ed as those things, so what's the problem? PersonOfInterest2 05:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
What I'd like to know is where the thing's trigger is at. RadiumMetal 20:21, 27 October 2011 (CDT)
The 'Nade Launcher
The Grenade Launcher doesn't look like the DefTech. It looks like the grenade launcher in Predator but that one wasn't a real gun. Anyone have any idea what that motherfucking 'nade launcher is supposed to represent?-Oliveira 17:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Something with "adjustable spray nozzle" in the description judging by the muzzle. Also fitted with an underbarrel microphone. Dongs 19:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok, i admit i laughed at the underbarrel microphone. Now i can't unsee it. Thank you Dongs.-Oliveira 20:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The rocket launcher
Shouldnt the rocket launcher be based on the RPG-7 instead?
No, because it only has one grip, an RPG-7 has two. Tim 17:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
If it has only one grip, wouln't it be an RPG-2?-Oliveira 18:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The Type 69's grip is in the middle of the weapon, the RPG-2's is near the muzzle of the tube. <-Should not look at things the instant after waking up. Yes, it could be, but it's probably supposed to be an RPG-7 derivative. See: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/goldeneye/images/0/05/Rocket_Launcher.png for the Goldeneye Rocket Launcher. Apparently in early builds it had a three-shot magazine, was shoulder-fired [ie higher up on-screen] and looked different. Tim 19:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
"Generic rotary gun"
You forgot to mention the rotary guns in the Airport level. --208.85.242.212 10:18, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Airport level? What airport level?--Oliveira 10:52, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Level 3, Runway, pillbox-enclosed rotary guns. They're in a few other places too I think. 115.134.216.180 02:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I believe he's talking about the runway where you make your escape from the chemical weapons plant, though I don't recall any of those weapons there. just a tank and an endless stream of Soviet infantry. Orca1 9904 04:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes there are those in Runway: One near the tank, one on the left side at the end of the runway and one on the right side at the end of the runway User:SeanWolf
"Grenade Launcher"
The Grenade Launcher is supposed to be a Milkor MGL (Multiple Grenade Launcher). There are plenty of variants of it.
No it is not supposed to be a Milkor, it resembles a Milkor just as much as it resembles an RG-6 or an Arwen. My money's on Rare copying the clunky looking bastard from Predator (and Oliveira agrees), seeing as they ripped off the Robocop shotgun. - POI
This game is full of guns that are copied from other movies. The fake AK-74 from Goldeneye is the most obvious, and Dongs pointed out the very unique infrared scope set up on the sniper rifle copied from The Living Daylights. The grenade launcher is quite a good match for the launcher from Predator. The folding stock 870 with the shells on top is a very iconic image from Terminator 2: Judgement Day, what else could it possibly be? As for the "automatic shotgun", yeah I guess that technically would be speculation, but consider all the other guns in this game ripped from movies, the popularity of Robocop, and the fact that I described a gun similar to Kurtwood Smith's customized 1100 as a potential candidate for this shotgun BEFORE I had even seen the screencap that I later used to identify it. Pretty safe speculation, I would say. - PersonOfInterest
"This game is full of guns that are copied from other movies" well I just see a bunch of crappily generically modeled weapons. The only reason that you see them as movie guns is because it is what you are used to seeing/want to see. Your mind is matrixing so that you see what you want to see. There is no indication AT ALL that these weapons were ripped from a movie. Maybe its where the artist could have gotten his inspiration but anything else is pure speculation. To label such a crappily drawn generic weapon in this game as a such certain a specific weapon is a mockery of IMFDB in my opinion , akin to if someone were to parody IMFDB on SNL. --AdAstra2009 20:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Well if you want to take it to a logical extreme then nothing in this game can be defined as anything. The PP7 is a black pocket pistol, the DD44 is a grey pistol. The KF7 would be better described as an AK-47 or AKM with the wooden stock removed due to a lack of holes where the folding stock would be. Being labelled as "AK-47" in the beta version doesn't mean anything, it's just another misidentification, a common occurance in games AND movies The RCP90 shouldn't count as anything. If you're uncomfortable giving a concrete identification of anything then at least mention the similarities. You can't completely ignore when something bares a resemblance to something that actually does exist. Example: don't say the auto shotgun definitively is a Remington 1100 a la Robocop, say it is most similar to the Remington 1100 from Robocop. PersonOfInterest 22:13, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
What I've done now appears to be a sensible solution. Maybe this way of labelling things can be used in other video game articles. PersonOfInterest 23:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Rocket Launcher
I don't know how anyone can write that it is 'generically' based of a type 96 RPG. It looks more like an AT4 than anything else. I mean, sure it's got a vertical fore grip, but don't you think that's kind of a stretch? 65.29.239.251 09:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
It looks nothing like an AT4. It most resembles a Type 69 because it has a single pistol grip and an external warhead, neither of which are present on the AT4. It's not exactly a Type 69, so it's not labeled as a Type 69, the picture is just there for comparison. PersonOfInterest
It looks like an RPG-2. - --98.239.44.93 00:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
It looks absolutely nothing like an RPG. Also it has in internal warhead, not an external one. It looks like a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle. --Mcswan (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Can this page be un-locked to replace the RPG with "Rocket Launcher" that resembles a Carl Gustaf? --Mcswan (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Cougar Magnum/Ruger Redhawk text
"The Cougar Magnum appears to be based on the Ruger Redhawk. Despite a slow rate of fire, it is suprisingly powerful; capable of shooting through doors and other objects while retaining lethal force. It is also used by Natalya to plow through the jungle."
I changed this text because it makes no sense. "Also used by Natalya"? It's ONLY used by Natalya, you can't even pick it up off of her if she dies. And what is so surprising about a slow firing weapon being powerful? There are lots of video game weapons that are powerful and slow. You can't have powerful and fast because that wouldn't be balanced. And it is not at all worth mentioning that it "[retains] lethal force" because other guns that fire through objects (AR33, RCP90, Moonraker Laser) also "[retain] lethal force". Just mention that those guns can all shoot through doors, objects, and people and that's all that needs to be said.
Please don't ban me again, I'm not a vandal and banning me from the wiki because of my conduct on the forums was grossly unfair. PersonOfInterest2 05:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, it can also be used by the player (be it by cheats or whatever), so the grammar isn't technically incorrect. And as for the section's text.. Other than some words and phrases bothering you, there doesn't seem to be any problem with it as far as I can see. The section didn't say 'THIS GUN RULEZ AND IT KIKS ASS' or something like that. Don't be such a childish nitpicker. As for you getting banned, that's irrelevant here. Though I will say myself that it'd be pretty pointless to ban you off the forums and continue to allow you to be around and post on the actual Wiki itself. But that's just me. StanTheMan 17:46, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Notice the shape of the grip and the horizontal lines. BurtReynoldsMoustache 23:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Plus there is also the mag plate that sticks out, the safety catch (which the Tokarev lacks), and the Tokagypt has a less pronounced step-down between the receiver and the bottom of the barrel. With all of these details, I think that it should be listed as a Tokagypt on the page. --Mcswan (talk) 02:28, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
The real Grenade Launcher
I just found it. It's a Defense Technologies Penn Arms 40mm rotary launcher but it's missing the stock, tactical rails, and the handgrip at the front. RadiumMetal 12:47, 18 August 2011 (CDT)
I'm not entirely sure the PGL65-40 even existed in 1997. Evil Tim 02:35, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
The picture of the Grenade Launcher in the watch shows that it appears to have an unusually long top barrel, a shorter bottom barrel, and a pump. Other multi-shot launchers like the MGL or an RG6 don't have stuff like this, it's hard to pin down what it is. My jaw dropped when I figured out it looked like the Penn launcher, because of the pump underneath it. I can't find any production dates on the PGL65-40 and I'm coming up blank. So whether the PGL was developed in that time frame I don't know. RadiumMetal 19:52, 27 October 2011 (CDT)
Editing
Can one of the higher-ups please lift the protection on this page (atleast temporarily) so I can spruce it up? When I say I'm done you can put the protection back up if you want, thank you. - Mr. Wolf 03:42, 9 September 2011 (CDT)
The Cougar Magnum is actually the Ruger Blackhawk, NOT Redhawk
Take a good look at the sight, the spacing between the front of the cylinder and the barrel, and the very bottom of the gun under the cylinder. On the Redhawk, the bottom is straight, on the Blackhawk and Cougar Magnum, the bottom is diagonally sloped.
"Walther PPK, Seven-Point-Six-Five-Millimeter. Only three men I know use such a gun. I believe I've killed two of them." -Valentin Zukovsky to James Bond.
The caliber on this page is inaccurate and must be changed here and on the Perfect Dark page. RugerLord 14:10, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The gun in the movie may or may not be .32/7.65 but the gun in the photograph is a .380 and to label it otherwise would be incorrect. It's just there as a visual example. Simsandwich 14:33, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
The caption under the RCP90 image states the weapon is not available on the Train level without cheats - this isn't true, as on the easier difficulties there is an RCP90 hidden in the last crate on the left hand side of the first carriage. I'd change the information myself but the page is locked.--Leigh Burne 04:17, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
I changed the information. --Cheers, Chris J 21:58, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
Thanks, but you missed a bit, the caption still says "Bond cheats himself a P90 during the mission Train..." :) --Leigh Burne 03:14, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
Leigh Burne is correct, on Agent difficultly you will find an RCP90 in a box left of the door in the 1st train car, on Secret Agent you will find a DD44 in the same box. On 00 Agent you find nothing. No cheats needed for it to appear on Agent difficulty. ColdSteel (talk) 02:41, 8 January 2013 (EST)
Locked page?
Why is this page locked anyways? I was going to upload some new and better ingame images to the page, but for some reason its locked from edits *shrugs*. Why is that? Just a little annoying because I already pre-prepared most of the images...
--Cheers, Chris J 01:42, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
We had a guy who tended to edit only this page and had some, um, interesting ideas about how our articles should work. I've unlocked it temporarily so you can add the new images. Evil Tim 02:08, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
Thanks, Tim. And yes, I am still going to harass you until I know for sure whether you are indeed Evil Tim as I know, "Evil Tim" :3 --Cheers, Chris J 12:16, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
I just finished the edits, thanks again. Let me know if there is anything you don't like.--Cheers, Chris J 14:47, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
Feel free to replace the existing images too if you like, they've got black borders. Evil Tim 02:50, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
No problem, I'll work on replacing the existing image in a few hours. --Cheers, Chris J 13:48, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
Sorry, my PC is having issues right now, so I can't replace those images yet. I'll let you know when I can get around to that. --Cheers, Chris J 16:09, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
Development Builds and other versions of the game
Hello guys,
I would be really interested to see some of the mentioned weapons in the older builds of the game, what did they look like?
The reason for this is if you look at the box of the N64 game (at least the one available in Europe, not sure if it is globally) there is a screenshot of a weapon which is NOT in the game. It could be the mentioned alternative AK47 from an old build.
Is there any chance we could see the older versions of the guns from other builds please? Hchris
There are many sites on the web where you can find information on pre-release goldeneye stuff, such as betagoldeneye.com or Unseen64.net. Although I have seen info for pre-release stuff on the site, for example, the Half-Life 2 page has information about some of the weapons that where in the leaked build of that game. I will wait to see what older members of the site have to say on this topic, though. By the way, the gun seen on the back of the Goldeneye box, is the old AK-47. --Cheers, Chris J 21:25, 10 August 2012 (CDT)
