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Talk:AK Gallery: Difference between revisions
Zackmann08 (talk | contribs) No edit summary |
(Proposition for solving the "sniper versions" problem) |
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Um...This seems a little too broad, what are the Dragunov and AS Val doing on a page about AK variants? I doubt even the average non-gunny moviegoer is going to look at an SVD and think it's an AK, though the average journalist might. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:44, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | Um...This seems a little too broad, what are the Dragunov and AS Val doing on a page about AK variants? I doubt even the average non-gunny moviegoer is going to look at an SVD and think it's an AK, though the average journalist might. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:44, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | ||
:I totally get and respect what you are saying. As always, if you think it truly doesn't belong here, please remove it. Personally, I think it can help to identify the gun. As I said below, this page is NOT intended to be a lesson about the history of these guns, but to be a tool to help identify them. As always I defer to the knowledge and experience of my elders. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:28, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | :I totally get and respect what you are saying. As always, if you think it truly doesn't belong here, please remove it. Personally, I think it can help to identify the gun. As I said below, this page is NOT intended to be a lesson about the history of these guns, but to be a tool to help identify them. As always I defer to the knowledge and experience of my elders. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:28, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | ||
A gallery is nice, but it would be nice to have an ID guide as well (like the M16 rifle series). I still have no idea what's the difference between a stamped and a milled receiver... --[[User:Sentient6|Sentient6]] 16:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT) | |||
== RPD, AN-94, SVD/Tiger == | == RPD, AN-94, SVD/Tiger == | ||
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ALL good points. Like Funkychinaman said, this is for the average movie goes and is to help IDENTIFY the guns. NOT a history lesson in which guns are a direct variant of another, though we can certainly mention on the page that the RPD (for example) is NOT a version of the AK, but simply resembles the gun. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:15, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | ALL good points. Like Funkychinaman said, this is for the average movie goes and is to help IDENTIFY the guns. NOT a history lesson in which guns are a direct variant of another, though we can certainly mention on the page that the RPD (for example) is NOT a version of the AK, but simply resembles the gun. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:15, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | ||
:I still do think we should have one section for actual AKs and derivatives, and another for similar weapons often mistaken for AKs. I know we're not supposed to be a weapons encyclopedia, but we can at least acknowledge that we know they're not related. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:20, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | |||
IMHO I think they should stay on the page, except for the RPD as I don't think you could really think it was an AK variant, and it isn't like it was inspired by or designed with the same look/ergonomics of the AK-47 as it actually pre-dates it. As for the xections, I think a good split would be something like Russian rifles *ak-47, AKM, AK-74 etc.), foreign rifles (Zastava M70, Norinco Type 56, AIM etc.) and a category for those weapons that are inspired by the AK-47 but are a different design (Valmet, Sa. Vz. 58P etc.). I don't know what to call the last group, as "other" makes it seem like something other than Russian or foreign which makes no sense, maybe "AK inspired rifles" or something like that, or "AK derivatives"? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:53, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | |||
:To use the term "derivative" implies some sort of design connection. And while you can say that about the Valmet or Galil, I don't think you can say that about the Vz. 58 or the Type 81, and yet I think most laymen would group them all together as AK's. So we have to accommodate the laymen while being truthful. How about "Commonly Mistaken for AK's" or "Visually Similar to AK's?"--[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:27, 27 March 2012 (CDT) | |||
::With all due respect for the expert comments made above, I think this page is just great as a quick reference. This will save me (and many others I guess) lots of time browsing through all kinds of pages. Please do change the naming of the categories to whatever seems most appropriate, but do keep this great piece of work as it is, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 17:49, 28 March 2012 (CDT) | |||
With utmost respect to everybody who put this page together (an extremely useful page!) I propose simply to change the heading above the sniper weapons to something else, not "sniper versions" - because except for some knock-offs made to ''resemble'' SVD, these are not versions of the AK platform at all. It is especially sad with SVD, which is a brilliant, ingenious, purpose-built sniper design almost completely unrelated to AK, but closely resembling it (to say nothing of VSS). This seems to work nicely with "weapons resembling AK" - a heading that does not imply that they are in any way connected to the actual design. So the sound approach would be to name the section '''Sniper weapons resembling AK/RPK'''. Peace, [[User:Tushan|Tushan]] ([[User talk:Tushan|talk]]) 12:56, 13 October 2013 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 16:56, 13 October 2013
Um...This seems a little too broad, what are the Dragunov and AS Val doing on a page about AK variants? I doubt even the average non-gunny moviegoer is going to look at an SVD and think it's an AK, though the average journalist might. Evil Tim 05:44, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
- I totally get and respect what you are saying. As always, if you think it truly doesn't belong here, please remove it. Personally, I think it can help to identify the gun. As I said below, this page is NOT intended to be a lesson about the history of these guns, but to be a tool to help identify them. As always I defer to the knowledge and experience of my elders. :-) --Zackmann08 10:28, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
A gallery is nice, but it would be nice to have an ID guide as well (like the M16 rifle series). I still have no idea what's the difference between a stamped and a milled receiver... --Sentient6 16:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
RPD, AN-94, SVD/Tiger
RPD, AN-94 and SVD/Tiger is not versions of AK! Please, READ MORE!!! You can find info for example in Wikipedia. --Flexo 07:08, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
- As well as VSS Vintorez, AS Val, AEK-971, Sa. Vz. 58. Bednardos 15:53, 27 March 2012 (EET)
- The page is for "the average movie-goer" though. How about setting up a separate "Often Mistaken for AKs" section. --Funkychinaman 08:44, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
ALL good points. Like Funkychinaman said, this is for the average movie goes and is to help IDENTIFY the guns. NOT a history lesson in which guns are a direct variant of another, though we can certainly mention on the page that the RPD (for example) is NOT a version of the AK, but simply resembles the gun. --Zackmann08 10:15, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
- I still do think we should have one section for actual AKs and derivatives, and another for similar weapons often mistaken for AKs. I know we're not supposed to be a weapons encyclopedia, but we can at least acknowledge that we know they're not related. --Funkychinaman 11:20, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
IMHO I think they should stay on the page, except for the RPD as I don't think you could really think it was an AK variant, and it isn't like it was inspired by or designed with the same look/ergonomics of the AK-47 as it actually pre-dates it. As for the xections, I think a good split would be something like Russian rifles *ak-47, AKM, AK-74 etc.), foreign rifles (Zastava M70, Norinco Type 56, AIM etc.) and a category for those weapons that are inspired by the AK-47 but are a different design (Valmet, Sa. Vz. 58P etc.). I don't know what to call the last group, as "other" makes it seem like something other than Russian or foreign which makes no sense, maybe "AK inspired rifles" or something like that, or "AK derivatives"? --commando552 12:53, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
- To use the term "derivative" implies some sort of design connection. And while you can say that about the Valmet or Galil, I don't think you can say that about the Vz. 58 or the Type 81, and yet I think most laymen would group them all together as AK's. So we have to accommodate the laymen while being truthful. How about "Commonly Mistaken for AK's" or "Visually Similar to AK's?"--Funkychinaman 23:27, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
- With all due respect for the expert comments made above, I think this page is just great as a quick reference. This will save me (and many others I guess) lots of time browsing through all kinds of pages. Please do change the naming of the categories to whatever seems most appropriate, but do keep this great piece of work as it is, --PeeWee055 17:49, 28 March 2012 (CDT)
With utmost respect to everybody who put this page together (an extremely useful page!) I propose simply to change the heading above the sniper weapons to something else, not "sniper versions" - because except for some knock-offs made to resemble SVD, these are not versions of the AK platform at all. It is especially sad with SVD, which is a brilliant, ingenious, purpose-built sniper design almost completely unrelated to AK, but closely resembling it (to say nothing of VSS). This seems to work nicely with "weapons resembling AK" - a heading that does not imply that they are in any way connected to the actual design. So the sound approach would be to name the section Sniper weapons resembling AK/RPK. Peace, Tushan (talk) 12:56, 13 October 2013 (EDT)