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Talk:In the Line of Duty: The F.B.I. Murders: Difference between revisions
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I was watching this the other day and Michael Gross seems to have a strange way of handling the M16 he fires when they are target practicing. I know that they were supposed to be ex military. Was this a taught method on how to fire an M16 or some sort of creative choice on behalf of either the actor or the director? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC) | I was watching this the other day and Michael Gross seems to have a strange way of handling the M16 he fires when they are target practicing. I know that they were supposed to be ex military. Was this a taught method on how to fire an M16 or some sort of creative choice on behalf of either the actor or the director? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Call it poetic license. I was instructed to fire from the shoulder - especially when on full auto with the old M16A1 and the 3 round burst when firing the M16A2. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 10:23, 13 January 2012 (CST) | |||
::Almost a year for an answer ;) Thanks though :) I haven't seen any other films displaying this method which is what I found so odd. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:00, 13 January 2012 (CST) | |||
::Sure thing. I try to be prompt. It is a goofy hold isn't it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 20:04, 13 January 2012 (CST) | |||
== Model 10 vs Model 13 == | == Model 10 vs Model 13 == | ||
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Actually, Mirelles and the other agents with revolvers could possibly have had four inch [[Smith & Wesson Model 13]] guns in .357 Magnum. FBI agents in those days were issued the Model 13 with a three inch barrel and a round butt frame. This gun was no longer issued after the Miami shootout on which this movie is based. The FBI felt that a more powerful cartridge in an automatic pistol platform would be more suitable in these situations. Subsequently, the 10mm S&W cartridge was introduced in an automatic pistol built to chamber it. Soon after, the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge was introduced, and has since become the most popular law enforcement cartridge in history. The guns in the film look like a four inch barrel, and the Model 13 looks like a Model 10 and while not factually accurate in barrel length, this gun COULD have been the one used in the film. | Actually, Mirelles and the other agents with revolvers could possibly have had four inch [[Smith & Wesson Model 13]] guns in .357 Magnum. FBI agents in those days were issued the Model 13 with a three inch barrel and a round butt frame. This gun was no longer issued after the Miami shootout on which this movie is based. The FBI felt that a more powerful cartridge in an automatic pistol platform would be more suitable in these situations. Subsequently, the 10mm S&W cartridge was introduced in an automatic pistol built to chamber it. Soon after, the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge was introduced, and has since become the most popular law enforcement cartridge in history. The guns in the film look like a four inch barrel, and the Model 13 looks like a Model 10 and while not factually accurate in barrel length, this gun COULD have been the one used in the film. | ||
In the FOIA Report on the FBI Website, it states that Mirelles was cleared to carry several revolvers, but he USED a Smith & Wesson Model 686 during the Miami Shootout. Link: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/shooting.htm | In the FOIA Report on the FBI Website, it states that Mirelles was cleared to carry several revolvers, but he USED a Smith & Wesson Model 686 during the Miami Shootout. Link: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/shooting.htm | ||
== M16A2? == | |||
Was the M16A2 even in available in 1988? I know it was probably being used by the Military, but are we sure it's an M16A2, rather than an A1 with the different handguards? | |||
:If you look at the sights in the picture those are definitely the A2 style sights. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:13, 13 January 2012 (CST) | |||
::I don't know about the civilian section, but I can tell you this. I joined the Army Reserve in 1986. A couple friends of mine joined the Marine Reserve that same year. Both of our units were (actually still are) based at Gowen Field, Boise, Idaho. My unit was using the M16A1, but I recall that in December of 86 the Marines turned in their M16A1's for brand new M16A2's. My buddies kept talking about how the new rifles were Christmas gifts. I couldn't believe it. I kept hearing how the Reserves get the new stuff only years after the Regulars and it was even worse for the Marine Reserve and there they were getting brand new rifles. So I suppose that Colt was making civilian legal A2's by 87/88.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 20:12, 13 January 2012 (CST) | |||
== Photos from the actual case == | |||
I found these photos in a magazine article examining the gunfight on the thirtieth anniversary (1986 - 2016). https://www.recoilweb.com/shootout-in-miami-142459.html. It's worth a look. The M-16 and H&K MP-5 were carried by agents who were on duty that day but were not participants in the firefight. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 23:06, 6 November 2020 (EST) | |||
[[File:Confiscated-weapons.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The FBI’s firepower, in blue, would’ve been much greater had the entire collection of agents on area stakeouts that day arrived at the shootout. Instead, Matix and Platt’s weapons, in orange, went against agents’ five revolvers, three pistols, and two shotguns]] | |||
[[File:Jerry-dove-pistol-958x638.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Jerry Dove's [[Smith & Wesson Model 459]], covered in blood and photographed at the scene, was shot through the center of the slide, locking the slide to the rear. ]] | |||
[[File:Miami-shootout-958x639.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The position of the vehicles and the agents at the start of the April 11, 1986, shootout. (Courtesy of F.B.I. Special Agent (Ret) Edmundo Mireles]] | |||
[[File:Edmundo-mireles-958x639.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Edmundo Mireles’ red jacket and shotgun as well as blood from the agents and perps were left behind on the scene when the shootout was over. ]] | |||
[[File:Car-crash-958x639.jpg|thumb|none|500px|During the crash Platt and Matix were pinned between a civilian Oldsmobile Cutlass (left), a tree, and FBI Agent Manauzzi’s bureau Buick.]] | |||
[[File:Ben-grogan-car-958x639.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The rear of Agent Ben Grogan’s Buick was left coated in Platt’s blood as he worked around it, first killing Grogan and Agent Jerry Dove, and then shooting Agent John Hanlon. ]] | |||
[[File:Miami-shootout-86-958x639.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Monte Carlo was riddled by shotgun blasts as Agent Grogan returned fire at Matix, who first fired at his shotgun at the agents. ]] | |||
Latest revision as of 06:20, 8 March 2023
Nice Work
Nice work, Predator20. Your captures are far better than the ones I had. --Markit 03:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, I was going to send you a message about replacing your caps. You sound okay with it, so that's good. I'm going to read up more on the actual shootout and add as much info I can about it. From what I read and saw from the film, it was close. -Predator20 03:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
- My Criminal Justice professor has a published copy of the complete evidence package with all the forensics and agent statements. It's an interesting read to say the least. Mercer 21:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
- I've actually been studying this shootout lately, came across it when reading about the North Hollywood shootout. A very interesting and eye opening look into how a planned event can go wrong, and the effectiveness of the .38 and 9mm. M14fanboy
M16 firing method
I was watching this the other day and Michael Gross seems to have a strange way of handling the M16 he fires when they are target practicing. I know that they were supposed to be ex military. Was this a taught method on how to fire an M16 or some sort of creative choice on behalf of either the actor or the director? --cool-breeze 22:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
- Call it poetic license. I was instructed to fire from the shoulder - especially when on full auto with the old M16A1 and the 3 round burst when firing the M16A2. --Jcordell 10:23, 13 January 2012 (CST)
- Almost a year for an answer ;) Thanks though :) I haven't seen any other films displaying this method which is what I found so odd. --cool-breeze 13:00, 13 January 2012 (CST)
- Sure thing. I try to be prompt. It is a goofy hold isn't it. --Jcordell 20:04, 13 January 2012 (CST)
Model 10 vs Model 13
Actually, Mirelles and the other agents with revolvers could possibly have had four inch Smith & Wesson Model 13 guns in .357 Magnum. FBI agents in those days were issued the Model 13 with a three inch barrel and a round butt frame. This gun was no longer issued after the Miami shootout on which this movie is based. The FBI felt that a more powerful cartridge in an automatic pistol platform would be more suitable in these situations. Subsequently, the 10mm S&W cartridge was introduced in an automatic pistol built to chamber it. Soon after, the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge was introduced, and has since become the most popular law enforcement cartridge in history. The guns in the film look like a four inch barrel, and the Model 13 looks like a Model 10 and while not factually accurate in barrel length, this gun COULD have been the one used in the film. In the FOIA Report on the FBI Website, it states that Mirelles was cleared to carry several revolvers, but he USED a Smith & Wesson Model 686 during the Miami Shootout. Link: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/shooting.htm
M16A2?
Was the M16A2 even in available in 1988? I know it was probably being used by the Military, but are we sure it's an M16A2, rather than an A1 with the different handguards?
- If you look at the sights in the picture those are definitely the A2 style sights. --cool-breeze 17:13, 13 January 2012 (CST)
- I don't know about the civilian section, but I can tell you this. I joined the Army Reserve in 1986. A couple friends of mine joined the Marine Reserve that same year. Both of our units were (actually still are) based at Gowen Field, Boise, Idaho. My unit was using the M16A1, but I recall that in December of 86 the Marines turned in their M16A1's for brand new M16A2's. My buddies kept talking about how the new rifles were Christmas gifts. I couldn't believe it. I kept hearing how the Reserves get the new stuff only years after the Regulars and it was even worse for the Marine Reserve and there they were getting brand new rifles. So I suppose that Colt was making civilian legal A2's by 87/88.--Jcordell 20:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)
Photos from the actual case
I found these photos in a magazine article examining the gunfight on the thirtieth anniversary (1986 - 2016). https://www.recoilweb.com/shootout-in-miami-142459.html. It's worth a look. The M-16 and H&K MP-5 were carried by agents who were on duty that day but were not participants in the firefight. --Jcordell (talk) 23:06, 6 November 2020 (EST)
