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Talk:Rambo: First Blood Part II: Difference between revisions
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== M78 == | == M78 == | ||
Really? Who put the Valmet M78 in as an assault rifle? As far as i'm concerned, the M78 is a light machinegun. It does piss me off when movies treat light machine guns as rifles. Like in the movie The Black Scorpion, when they treated a | Really? Who put the Valmet M78 in as an assault rifle? As far as i'm concerned, the M78 is a light machinegun. It does piss me off when movies treat light machine guns as rifles. Like in the movie The Black Scorpion, when they treated a Mendoza M1934 LMG as a semi auto hunting rifle.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]] | ||
:That's not an intentional error [[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]], in the Black Scorpion, they had blanks, but they didn't blank adapt the gun. Which is what happens when you 'borrow' guns from the military or law enforcement. I can't tell you how many 'amateur' filmmakers or professional filmmakers who have never worked with guns before, don't understand that a gun has to be hollywood blank adapted before it can cycle .. period. Borrowing military guns will only get you those ugly Brightly colored screw-on Milspec BFAs that they use in training. So when they fired the blanks out of the Mendoza, it didn't cycle as expected, so they had to manually cycle the gun. No one gets a Light machine gun and intentionally shows it like a hunting rifle. They got stuck because no one had prior knowledge of how blank adapted movie guns actually worked. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:45, 1 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
== Same Actor == | |||
[[Image:RamboIITT33-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pirate sneaks onto the ship via the roof with his pistol in hand before being gunned down by Co Bao's AKM.]] | |||
[[Image:Rambo2 908.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Vietnamese pirate with an M1911A1 in his holster.]] | |||
This appears to be the same actor, so he should be using the same gun, right? Or are we certain the guns are just a continuity error?--[[User:Thomas|Thomas]] ([[User talk:Thomas|talk]]) 11:38, 13 October 2019 (EDT) | |||
: Certainly not the same guns between those caps. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 12:01, 13 October 2019 (EDT) | |||
== M60/RPG7 Frankengun == | |||
I don't know if someone's ever mentioned this before already, but has anyone noticed the poster (I believe it's the artwork for the OST) featuring Rambo with an M60/RPG7 hybrid frakengun weapon? It seems to be the M60E3 but with an RPG-7 warhead inserted into the muzzle. It reminded me of the WW2 German "Gewehrgranatengerät", but such a design here makes absolutely zero sense (you can see the weapon is depicted as a machine gun and not exclusively a rocket launcher because of the belt). Here's the picture for reference: | |||
[[File:Rambo2M60-RPG7frankengun.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]] | |||
I could add this surprised me further since there's a very popular photoshop of this artwork featuring Donald Trump's face instead of Stallone's, usually sold as a flag at Trump rallies and events: | |||
[[File:TrumpRambo2M60-RPG7frankengun.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]] | |||
Since this image has had a wide impact on popular culture and a resurgence in popularity because of Trump, I really wonder what the firearm community thinks when seeing such a questionable weapon hybrid design. Also, should this particular picture be added and discussed in the main page, seeing as it's official artwork for the film? | |||
--[[User:Ssantusky|Ssantusky]] ([[User talk:Ssantusky|talk]]) 20:02, 8 August 2021 (EDT) | |||
I think it actually is some weird hybrid, because if you look closely, the M60's barrel actually has the contour of an RPG tube behind where the warhead is "inserted." As for the Trump image, I don't see what relevance it has to the movie to be discussed. There are plenty of other places where such political commentary can be discussed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:24, 8 August 2021 (EDT) | |||
: There's been a few instances of cover and poster art having some 'franken'-work done to them, including - I daresay, particularly - on weapons. There are cover arts for ''RoboCop 3'' for example that show Robo aiming what appears at a glance to be his typical Auto-9 but if seen closely it's actually the barrel of the gunarm grafted onto/into his hand as if it were a pistol. There's been other odd examples throughout time as well. WHY this happens I couldn't say, and I agree it it is weird, but it's also not unheard-of. Anyway I'd say the actual cover art is worth making a note on the page about, but that one with Trump aside from the reference you just pointed out really has no other business here as already stated. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:36, 8 August 2021 (EDT) | |||
::Hello, thanks for the responses. Indeed, it seems to be the actual tube being superimposed over the barrel, not really inserted into the muzzle. To any person with minimal knowledge about firearms (i.e. distinguishing a machine gun from a rocket launcher) this design will seem quite jarring. And no, I'm not interested in discussing politics; I simply emphasized that this particular image has been seen recently photoshopped in such a way, which makes it have an impact on popular culture because of how ubiquitous it is (it's not uncommon to see that flag in the TV news coverage of such rallies, for instance). So, that makes me think, people who know about firearms surely notice what's wrong with the design (and a lot of people will surely come across this photoshop more than the original image). I only mentioned the Trump photoshop because it's made from a relatively obscure artwork for the film which has gained renewed visibility and exposure through this particular representation. I think that's important, considering this is a very old film, and Rambo's weapons (mainly the M60) are very well known to the general public. I'm interested in discussing the film's impact on popular culture through its weapons' representations, not politics. The photoshop picture I included is just for reference, nothing more. My question was whether it is worth making a note on this official artwork for the film, not the photoshop.--[[User:Ssantusky|Ssantusky]] ([[User talk:Ssantusky|talk]]) 22:42, 8 August 2021 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 02:46, 9 August 2021
SDV DRAGUNOV?
- Yep.....(later) Nope.
- I've left a comment on this already, but probably not. We'd have to ask MPM2008, but I don't think any real SVDs were being imported to the U.S. at the time, and Hollywood armorers were basically limited to making due with what was on the civilian market. There are some Valmet M78 rifles configured to look like SVDs, which appear in Commando and Predator. Considering that Stembridge Gun Rentals supplied the weapons for those films and this one, it's a safe bet that the "Dragunov" in this film is one of those same guns.
- the supposed SVD in the movie, was actually a Valmet M78/83, the dragunov stocked version of the original M78 LMG. Actually we did not have SVDs in the U.S. until 1985, when Norinco imported their near perfect clone - the NDM-86. This rifle was identical to the SVD and used the 7.62x54R Cartridge and curved magazine. The .308 version of this rifle also used the same curved magazine, but had a different follower. The early versions of the Dragunov that used the straight walled .308 Magazines were early prototype guns that were imported in the early 1980s and were not a part of this series of guns which were imported between 1985-1989. We only started getting Russian marked guns after the fall of the USSR in 1990. MoviePropMaster2008 05:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
- It is a common misunderstanding that the M78/83 was a customized gun. The M78 was imported with a clubfoot stock, the M78/83 was the 1983 import that added the supposedly 'cooler looking' black synthetic thumbhole stock. That stock was a factory item and came with all the guns marked M78/83 (or were installed by the distributor), however VERY FEW of these in the full auto version or the over the counter semi auto versions were imported, so they are very rare. MoviePropMaster2008 05:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
TOKAREV
I removed the comment about Chinese T-54s being a better choice of the film based on having the safety catch - the safety catch is required for US import, real Chinese military Tokarevs (T-51, T-54 or M20) don't have it. - Nyles
M60E3
I reverted the M60E3 entry as just because an M60E3 has an Assault lenght barrel it is not a M60E4. the E4 model is an Improved E3 with several re designed internal and external parts.
- Also, did the M60E4 even exist in 1985, when the movie was made? I've been under the impression it was introduced in the 1990s (at least that's what Wikipedia says, but we all know they can't be trusted). -MT2008 00:45, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The only thing I trust on Wikipedia are the pages I have made. Heck, there are some popular firearms websites that I just cannot trust due to the level of bad information. the E4 shows up in my Military Firearms guides long after RamboII came out. Heck a Marimont Light Machinegun might be more accurate. Think of am M-60 with everything possible lightened and the forward grip being just an M-16 pistol grip. Rockwolf66 01:35, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- Isn't it Maremont? ;) MPM2008
M57 Yugo pistol
The pistol in the film sure looks like an M57 (with the pistol grip being longer than a TT-33 or Norinco Clone), but look at the grip serrations on the back of the slide. The Yugo M57 has diagonally slanting grip lines, the pistol that Vihn is holding has vertical grip lines. He is not holding the same pistol (unless the M57 changed designs midway). MPM2008
revolver?
what's with the revolver the guy with the smiley face pin has
Wooden Boat
I know this has nothing to do with firearms, but my friend and i were laughing for a few minutes straight the other day by how the wooden boat Rambo escaped exploded violently upon a slow moving collision. Please tell me I'm not the only one who noticed that. Mandaloin 00:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
The SIG P226
Something I've always wondered...how on Earth did they get a SIG P226 in this movie? (and yes, it is definitely a 226 and not a 220)
This movie came out in the spring of 1985, and it was filmed almost a year earlier. The P226 was only just appearing on the American handgun market at the time this movie was being released, and it would not have been available at the time the movie was being filmed. Did Syd Stembridge go to SIG Arms directly and borrow one of the prototype/pre-production guns so that he could use it in this movie? That's about the only way it could have happened. Actually, it would explain a lot - in the picture I posted, the SIG doesn't seem to be blank-converted (the top of the barrel isn't filed down), and it never gets fired. So maybe they borrowed it and gave it back after filming wrapped? Do any of the armorers on here know the story? -MT2008 14:04, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
What's with all the sarcastic comments?
Just about every gun or photo on the front page has a sarcastic comment attatched to it, and it makes it a really obnoxious read. Y'know, it IS possible to point out a goof in a movie without looking like a jack@$$.
Tay or Vinh?
George Cheung is identified here as Vinh, but is listed in the movie credits as Tay. Someone named William Ghent is credited as Vinh. If nobody objects I'll change it. - Kooshmeister
- I see nobody has a comment on this. But the credits don't lie so I'm changing him back to Tay. - Kooshmeister
- IMDB is the bible when it comes to actors listings and credits. YOu are correct, so change it back to the way IMDB has it listed. :) MoviePropMaster2008 13:34, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
M78
Really? Who put the Valmet M78 in as an assault rifle? As far as i'm concerned, the M78 is a light machinegun. It does piss me off when movies treat light machine guns as rifles. Like in the movie The Black Scorpion, when they treated a Mendoza M1934 LMG as a semi auto hunting rifle.--Gunner5
- That's not an intentional error Gunner5, in the Black Scorpion, they had blanks, but they didn't blank adapt the gun. Which is what happens when you 'borrow' guns from the military or law enforcement. I can't tell you how many 'amateur' filmmakers or professional filmmakers who have never worked with guns before, don't understand that a gun has to be hollywood blank adapted before it can cycle .. period. Borrowing military guns will only get you those ugly Brightly colored screw-on Milspec BFAs that they use in training. So when they fired the blanks out of the Mendoza, it didn't cycle as expected, so they had to manually cycle the gun. No one gets a Light machine gun and intentionally shows it like a hunting rifle. They got stuck because no one had prior knowledge of how blank adapted movie guns actually worked. MoviePropMaster2008 22:45, 1 October 2011 (CDT)
Same Actor
This appears to be the same actor, so he should be using the same gun, right? Or are we certain the guns are just a continuity error?--Thomas (talk) 11:38, 13 October 2019 (EDT)
- Certainly not the same guns between those caps. StanTheMan (talk) 12:01, 13 October 2019 (EDT)
M60/RPG7 Frankengun
I don't know if someone's ever mentioned this before already, but has anyone noticed the poster (I believe it's the artwork for the OST) featuring Rambo with an M60/RPG7 hybrid frakengun weapon? It seems to be the M60E3 but with an RPG-7 warhead inserted into the muzzle. It reminded me of the WW2 German "Gewehrgranatengerät", but such a design here makes absolutely zero sense (you can see the weapon is depicted as a machine gun and not exclusively a rocket launcher because of the belt). Here's the picture for reference:
I could add this surprised me further since there's a very popular photoshop of this artwork featuring Donald Trump's face instead of Stallone's, usually sold as a flag at Trump rallies and events:
Since this image has had a wide impact on popular culture and a resurgence in popularity because of Trump, I really wonder what the firearm community thinks when seeing such a questionable weapon hybrid design. Also, should this particular picture be added and discussed in the main page, seeing as it's official artwork for the film? --Ssantusky (talk) 20:02, 8 August 2021 (EDT)
I think it actually is some weird hybrid, because if you look closely, the M60's barrel actually has the contour of an RPG tube behind where the warhead is "inserted." As for the Trump image, I don't see what relevance it has to the movie to be discussed. There are plenty of other places where such political commentary can be discussed. Spartan198 (talk) 21:24, 8 August 2021 (EDT)
- There's been a few instances of cover and poster art having some 'franken'-work done to them, including - I daresay, particularly - on weapons. There are cover arts for RoboCop 3 for example that show Robo aiming what appears at a glance to be his typical Auto-9 but if seen closely it's actually the barrel of the gunarm grafted onto/into his hand as if it were a pistol. There's been other odd examples throughout time as well. WHY this happens I couldn't say, and I agree it it is weird, but it's also not unheard-of. Anyway I'd say the actual cover art is worth making a note on the page about, but that one with Trump aside from the reference you just pointed out really has no other business here as already stated. StanTheMan (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2021 (EDT)
- Hello, thanks for the responses. Indeed, it seems to be the actual tube being superimposed over the barrel, not really inserted into the muzzle. To any person with minimal knowledge about firearms (i.e. distinguishing a machine gun from a rocket launcher) this design will seem quite jarring. And no, I'm not interested in discussing politics; I simply emphasized that this particular image has been seen recently photoshopped in such a way, which makes it have an impact on popular culture because of how ubiquitous it is (it's not uncommon to see that flag in the TV news coverage of such rallies, for instance). So, that makes me think, people who know about firearms surely notice what's wrong with the design (and a lot of people will surely come across this photoshop more than the original image). I only mentioned the Trump photoshop because it's made from a relatively obscure artwork for the film which has gained renewed visibility and exposure through this particular representation. I think that's important, considering this is a very old film, and Rambo's weapons (mainly the M60) are very well known to the general public. I'm interested in discussing the film's impact on popular culture through its weapons' representations, not politics. The photoshop picture I included is just for reference, nothing more. My question was whether it is worth making a note on this official artwork for the film, not the photoshop.--Ssantusky (talk) 22:42, 8 August 2021 (EDT)