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Talk:Patlabor: The Movie 2: Difference between revisions
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::I don't recall the Tunguska even firing it's guns while Tsuge is looking at it, and the scene implies it isn't the only thing firing (just the only one he sees). I think in ''theory'' given Patlabor makes no bones about Labor armour being rubbish and the SA-19 is SACLOS, you probably ''could'' get a kill with one just by not bothering to set the fuze and using it as a kinetic penetrator; a 125-pound missile going at Mach 3 (there's no way the booster would be expended that early) is certainly going to ruin someone's day even if it doesn't detonate. Of course precisely why you'd bring a Tunguska out there in the first place is rather less clear. I guess they just thought it looked cooler than an IFV on the scope. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 09:45, 3 April 2011 (CDT) | ::I don't recall the Tunguska even firing it's guns while Tsuge is looking at it, and the scene implies it isn't the only thing firing (just the only one he sees). I think in ''theory'' given Patlabor makes no bones about Labor armour being rubbish and the SA-19 is SACLOS, you probably ''could'' get a kill with one just by not bothering to set the fuze and using it as a kinetic penetrator; a 125-pound missile going at Mach 3 (there's no way the booster would be expended that early) is certainly going to ruin someone's day even if it doesn't detonate. Of course precisely why you'd bring a Tunguska out there in the first place is rather less clear. I guess they just thought it looked cooler than an IFV on the scope. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 09:45, 3 April 2011 (CDT) | ||
:::The Tunguska never fires its' guns on-screen, though it does take out all of the Gong labors with guided missiles which are called "RPG's" by the crew and by the readouts on their screens. This is what really irks me about that scene. As for the missiles being SAMs with the warheads deactivated, I have to disagree with that as they explode on impact with their targets. Below is a Youtube video of the scene in question: [ | :::The Tunguska never fires its' guns on-screen, though it does take out all of the Gong labors with guided missiles which are called "RPG's" by the crew and by the readouts on their screens. This is what really irks me about that scene. As for the missiles being SAMs with the warheads deactivated, I have to disagree with that as they explode on impact with their targets. Below is a Youtube video of the scene in question: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlyjlMhKb3E&feature=related ''Patlabor 2'' opening sequence] [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:10, 3 April 2011 (CDT) | ||
::::Watching it again reminds me of what annoyed me the first time I saw it; I don't think the Tunguska does ''anything'' during the sequence. The "RPGs" are coming from dead ahead but the Tunguska is called as being at two o'clock from Gong, and I always thought those missiles were being fired by infantry rather than the "tank" (back then I'd have called it a tank, not knowing better). Looking carefully at my DVD, there's nine of them in the thermal view before the flares are launched, then about thirty, so unless it's some weird Metal Storm-like subcalibre insert in the eight tubes there's no way it's supposed to have fired all of them; it's probably one of those silly "soldier 2000" ideas where everyone was going to have a heat-seeking LAW in their pack by 1999 (a bit like the JASDF using F-15 S/MTDs as their main fighter; it's kinda funny seeing something made when 2002 was '''the future''' these days). The missile that kills the RADHA I always took as being fired from the Tunguska, but it looks like it comes in from the right of Tsuge's thermal sight and close to him ''after'' the Tunguska explodes (at least that's what I think the bright flash is), so maybe someone else fired that, too.<BR><BR>Weirdly enough, Tsuge's sight identifies the vehicle as "CILKA" (Shilka mangled) so someone on the staff seems to have thought it was going to be a ZSU. Incidentally, you're not the only one bugged by that scene, watching it again; why didn't Tsuge order his troops to return fire? I can't see a court martial ruling against a commander for refusing to order his men to get blasted to scrap metal. I know the UN's had some weird TOEs in the past, but telling soldiers they need to let rebels use them for target practice doesn't strike me as a lawful order.<br><br>Regarding my idea of it being a SAM, I was only thinking of the final impact; I can just about picture that as the missile hitting and the booster exploding since it isn't fully expended, but we're probably at severe risk of thinking about it more than they did. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 04:34, 5 April 2011 (CDT) | ::::Watching it again reminds me of what annoyed me the first time I saw it; I don't think the Tunguska does ''anything'' during the sequence. The "RPGs" are coming from dead ahead but the Tunguska is called as being at two o'clock from Gong, and I always thought those missiles were being fired by infantry rather than the "tank" (back then I'd have called it a tank, not knowing better). Looking carefully at my DVD, there's nine of them in the thermal view before the flares are launched, then about thirty, so unless it's some weird Metal Storm-like subcalibre insert in the eight tubes there's no way it's supposed to have fired all of them; it's probably one of those silly "soldier 2000" ideas where everyone was going to have a heat-seeking LAW in their pack by 1999 (a bit like the JASDF using F-15 S/MTDs as their main fighter; it's kinda funny seeing something made when 2002 was '''the future''' these days). The missile that kills the RADHA I always took as being fired from the Tunguska, but it looks like it comes in from the right of Tsuge's thermal sight and close to him ''after'' the Tunguska explodes (at least that's what I think the bright flash is), so maybe someone else fired that, too.<BR><BR>Weirdly enough, Tsuge's sight identifies the vehicle as "CILKA" (Shilka mangled) so someone on the staff seems to have thought it was going to be a ZSU. Incidentally, you're not the only one bugged by that scene, watching it again; why didn't Tsuge order his troops to return fire? I can't see a court martial ruling against a commander for refusing to order his men to get blasted to scrap metal. I know the UN's had some weird TOEs in the past, but telling soldiers they need to let rebels use them for target practice doesn't strike me as a lawful order.<br><br>Regarding my idea of it being a SAM, I was only thinking of the final impact; I can just about picture that as the missile hitting and the booster exploding since it isn't fully expended, but we're probably at severe risk of thinking about it more than they did. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 04:34, 5 April 2011 (CDT) | ||
:::::Sadly, this isn't far from the truth. During the early mission in Bosnia, UN forces' rule of engagements stated that soldiers are not allow to return fire unless the troops or their vehicles were struck by enemy fire (so if they just heard rounds passing by them, they were still not allowed to return fire). This seem to be the case here as well, by the time their labors were hit, it was already too late.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 15:58, 17 January 2012 (CST) | |||
*Orca, you've used VLC before, right? How come I'm getting all this interlacing in my screenshots, and is there a fix for it? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:43, 15 April 2011 (CDT) | *Orca, you've used VLC before, right? How come I'm getting all this interlacing in my screenshots, and is there a fix for it? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:43, 15 April 2011 (CDT) | ||
Latest revision as of 07:11, 31 May 2012
Just thinking, doesn't Tsuge's RADHA mech in the intro have an M242 Bushmaster on the mini-turret? I think he's shooting at a Soviet 2K22 Tunguska SP AA vehicle, so that's also a pair of 30mm 2A38M cannons for the page. Also, I think the guns slung under the Extors were three-barreled rather than six barreled, so they'd be M197s. I'll check at some point. Vangelis2 08:56, 3 April 2011 (CDT)
- It does look like a Bushmaster and is listed as a 25mm autocannon on material I've seen online, but it was firing at a far higher rate than the real Bushmaster. Also, unless there's a manually-operated version of he 2A38M, do not add it to the article. That scene also made me cringe in that they showed the Tunguska as having anti-armor missiles when it has exclusively anti-aircraft weaponry. The scene's depiction of RPG's as guided missiles also irked me since every RPG model ever made has had no guidance after launch. Orca1 9904 09:26, 3 April 2011 (CDT)
- I don't recall the Tunguska even firing it's guns while Tsuge is looking at it, and the scene implies it isn't the only thing firing (just the only one he sees). I think in theory given Patlabor makes no bones about Labor armour being rubbish and the SA-19 is SACLOS, you probably could get a kill with one just by not bothering to set the fuze and using it as a kinetic penetrator; a 125-pound missile going at Mach 3 (there's no way the booster would be expended that early) is certainly going to ruin someone's day even if it doesn't detonate. Of course precisely why you'd bring a Tunguska out there in the first place is rather less clear. I guess they just thought it looked cooler than an IFV on the scope. Vangelis2 09:45, 3 April 2011 (CDT)
- The Tunguska never fires its' guns on-screen, though it does take out all of the Gong labors with guided missiles which are called "RPG's" by the crew and by the readouts on their screens. This is what really irks me about that scene. As for the missiles being SAMs with the warheads deactivated, I have to disagree with that as they explode on impact with their targets. Below is a Youtube video of the scene in question: Patlabor 2 opening sequence Orca1 9904 10:10, 3 April 2011 (CDT)
- Watching it again reminds me of what annoyed me the first time I saw it; I don't think the Tunguska does anything during the sequence. The "RPGs" are coming from dead ahead but the Tunguska is called as being at two o'clock from Gong, and I always thought those missiles were being fired by infantry rather than the "tank" (back then I'd have called it a tank, not knowing better). Looking carefully at my DVD, there's nine of them in the thermal view before the flares are launched, then about thirty, so unless it's some weird Metal Storm-like subcalibre insert in the eight tubes there's no way it's supposed to have fired all of them; it's probably one of those silly "soldier 2000" ideas where everyone was going to have a heat-seeking LAW in their pack by 1999 (a bit like the JASDF using F-15 S/MTDs as their main fighter; it's kinda funny seeing something made when 2002 was the future these days). The missile that kills the RADHA I always took as being fired from the Tunguska, but it looks like it comes in from the right of Tsuge's thermal sight and close to him after the Tunguska explodes (at least that's what I think the bright flash is), so maybe someone else fired that, too.
Weirdly enough, Tsuge's sight identifies the vehicle as "CILKA" (Shilka mangled) so someone on the staff seems to have thought it was going to be a ZSU. Incidentally, you're not the only one bugged by that scene, watching it again; why didn't Tsuge order his troops to return fire? I can't see a court martial ruling against a commander for refusing to order his men to get blasted to scrap metal. I know the UN's had some weird TOEs in the past, but telling soldiers they need to let rebels use them for target practice doesn't strike me as a lawful order.
Regarding my idea of it being a SAM, I was only thinking of the final impact; I can just about picture that as the missile hitting and the booster exploding since it isn't fully expended, but we're probably at severe risk of thinking about it more than they did. Vangelis2 04:34, 5 April 2011 (CDT)
- Watching it again reminds me of what annoyed me the first time I saw it; I don't think the Tunguska does anything during the sequence. The "RPGs" are coming from dead ahead but the Tunguska is called as being at two o'clock from Gong, and I always thought those missiles were being fired by infantry rather than the "tank" (back then I'd have called it a tank, not knowing better). Looking carefully at my DVD, there's nine of them in the thermal view before the flares are launched, then about thirty, so unless it's some weird Metal Storm-like subcalibre insert in the eight tubes there's no way it's supposed to have fired all of them; it's probably one of those silly "soldier 2000" ideas where everyone was going to have a heat-seeking LAW in their pack by 1999 (a bit like the JASDF using F-15 S/MTDs as their main fighter; it's kinda funny seeing something made when 2002 was the future these days). The missile that kills the RADHA I always took as being fired from the Tunguska, but it looks like it comes in from the right of Tsuge's thermal sight and close to him after the Tunguska explodes (at least that's what I think the bright flash is), so maybe someone else fired that, too.
- Sadly, this isn't far from the truth. During the early mission in Bosnia, UN forces' rule of engagements stated that soldiers are not allow to return fire unless the troops or their vehicles were struck by enemy fire (so if they just heard rounds passing by them, they were still not allowed to return fire). This seem to be the case here as well, by the time their labors were hit, it was already too late.--Wildcards 15:58, 17 January 2012 (CST)
- Orca, you've used VLC before, right? How come I'm getting all this interlacing in my screenshots, and is there a fix for it? Evil Tim 00:43, 15 April 2011 (CDT)