Latest revision as of 09:07, 19 January 2022

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Carcano M38/43 - 7.92x57mm

Actual Carcano M91/38 used by Lee Harvey Oswald to assassinate John F. Kennedy - 6.5x52mm

Discussion

Because I'm not the only one on here who thinks the JFK assassination was a bogus cover up, I took a Carcano rifle and tried to rack the action and dry fire it three times in four seconds. Could hardly do it. Now try doing that with live ammunition (causing kick), aim 300yds away at a moving target and try that. This guy was trained in the Marines but even they aren't that good. It's more logical to assume some government officials (or hitmen) were taking shots with M14s at him from the grass knoll. But not to start contreversy or anything, I'm just throwing that out there. - Gunmaster45

Without starting controversy myself...I haven't read too much into the theories about it being a cover-up, but is it really so hard to believe that some communist loser would kill Kennedy? I've always thought the JFK conspiracy theories were the sort of thing that leftists, who can't accept that JFK was killed by one of their own, would concoct for the sake of their own bullshit world view. -MT2008 05:15, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you trying to say that leftists are communists?-Oliveira 13:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. -MT2008 16:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm just looking at it from a logical point of view. Plus, didn't they find like seven bullets in him? Although three were accounted for, the magic bullet theory makes it possible to believe a guy can have seven bullets in him from three rounds (I think that's what that was about but I'm not an expert on the subject). And the government wouldn't allows the mortician to examine certain things. I always thought the ordeal stunk with conspiracy. I'm not a leftist or a communist, but I just see the holes and it makes me suspicious. Of all these things, the gun problem I mentioned above is my strongest belief of a cover up. - Gunmaster45

"didn't they find like seven bullets in him?" No. Kennedy had two through-and-through bullet wounds. Connolly had a bullet in his left thigh, and no, it was not unfired, it has rifling marks and is bent along its axis. --Maxman (talk) 23:27, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

The weirdest thing about this page is that we have this discussion of JFK's murder, a mention of it on the actual page, and no metion of the Oliver Stone movie. 59.100.119.10 02:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The weirdest thing is why would someone won't believe that some crazy nut killed the president but instead some government hitmen. Why would they do that? Gods knows why. Some say it was Israel, some say it was the soviets, some the cuban government and some don't even know why. I say it was Lee Harvey Oswald a former United States Marine that was trained on the M1 Garand. I know that thinking about a deep conspiracy and letting your imagination run wild is better than thinking a lone 24 year old communist sympathizer could kill the president of the united states of america with a italian rifle made in 1940 alone, all by himself could kill the most powerful person in the world back then in 1963. From what i know about president's Kennedy assassination, they found two bullets in him, one to the head and one to back. The bullet to the head was fatal. I don't believe that president Kennedy was killed by anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald. John, i come from Brazil, a country that suffered a coup d'état in 1964 which the United States government took part so a conspiracy is not too far out there especially during the cold war but to ignore clear evidence that JFK was shoot and killed by Lee Harvey Oswald is stupid. I don't want to offend you John but i find all conspiracy theorys stupid.Oliveira 03:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

"I took a Carcano rifle and tried to rack the action and dry fire it three times in four seconds. Could hardly do it." So because you couldn't work a bolt action, you decide no one else can and it must be a conspiracy. That is, quite frankly, ludicrous. I wonder what you think of the British Mad Minute (15 hits on a 48" square target at 300 yards in under a minute; the record is 36). Also, the motorcade was only 88 yards from the book depository window, not 300. On top of this, if you time the scene in JFK where they dryfire the Carcano and declare it can't be fired three times in 5.2 seconds, they dryfire it three times in exactly 5.2 seconds. --Maxman (talk) 23:27, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Haliburton had him killed because he was going to pull us out of 'Nam, which was netting Haliburton tons of money in gov't contracts. They used Oswald as a patsy and had Jack Ruby kill him so he wouldn't talk (Ruby was dying from cancer and he didn't give a shit if he was in jail for the last few months of his life). Plus it couldn't have JUST been Oswald shooting because too many shots were fired in too little time. In addition, The Carcarno is a piss poor rifle and Oswald couldn't have shot Kennedy in the back from his position-S&Wshooter 06:23, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

No guys, you don't get it. JFK was killed by the New World Order who were working for the Lizard Overlords that control all existance. They iced Kennedy because he was fucking around Vietnam and Nam is the one of the Homes of the Lizard Overlords. They also worked alongside Castro so he could get revenge from the Bay of Pigs incident. Castro is also the Satan himself. The Italian Mob also 5 trillion Lizard Dollars to the Lizard Overlords so they could waste JFK because they hated Kennedy because he was Irish. Obama also travelled back in time using the Delorean with the Help of Doc Brown and killed Kennedy Himself using his Lucifer Powers. Satan and Lucifer are also different people by the way.-Oliveira 14:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh my god! You're a genious! Someone call the CIA-S&Wshooter 17:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I knew the Doc was in on it!--74.177.185.189 18:58, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Libyans made him do it! He jacked their plutinoum! BeardedHoplite 20:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one here who is a skeptic? --Jackbel 04:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

All you guys are wrong! There was a single, magic bullet forged by Illuminati mystics who had been hired by Joe DiMaggio to take out Kennedy in revenge for his part in Marilyn Monroe's death! Oswald was just some jerk who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. - User: 2wingo

And the aliens kept at Area 51 were almost certainly involved, too. Spartan198 (talk) 17:48, 30 April 2017 (EDT)

Oswald

In all seriousness there is one thing about Oswald that has always bugged me. In the 1950's the U.S. government was busy destroying people who had dated girls who got them to go to a Communist party meeting in the 1930's when they were in college. We know that those young guys didn't give a shit about the Communists. They were just wanting to have sex and would have gone to a Tupperware meeting if they thought that was what it would take. Nevertheless twenty years later those same guys are getting destroyed by McCarthy and HCUAC. They were going after janitors who might have known somebody who once expressed sympathies for the Communists for crying out loud. It was a witch hunt after all. Unreasoning and dangerous.

So then we have Oswald who defects to the Soviet Union during this time period and then returns a few years later married to the daughter of a Soviet general.A soviet general who was a big shot in their missile command! And what happens to him? Nothing. He's free, no prison time, no trials for treason, his wife isn't detained (evidently) buying guns and handing out all types of bizzaro literature on the streets of New Orleans and hanging out with half-baked revolutionaries. Huh? I don't claim to have a handle on any type of conspiracy regarding the assassination, but doesn't that whole Oswald situation strike anybody as being really strange? All out of step with what was happening in the United States in the 1950's. That's my one major observation.--Jcordell (talk) 11:21, 31 January 2013 (EST)

Where are you getting your sources from? Marina Prusakova's father died during WWII. Her stepfather was a Colonel, not a General, and he was responsible for internal security in Belarus. He didn't have anything to do with missile command. Also, I think you're severely exaggerating the proportions of the "witch hunt" you're describing. Yes there were crackdowns, but nothing like on the scale you suggest. If that were so, wouldn't the "half-baked revolutionaries" you're citing all be in prison?

Also, to the guy who said that because he couldn't dry-fire a Carcano rifle 3 times in four seconds then Oswald definitely couldn't have, your reasoning is seriously, seriously flawed. Maybe you're just not that good of a shot. You certainly weren't familiar with that weapons platform, and hadn't practised extensively with it. You probably don't have military training, which Oswald did. That's like me saying that because I can't hit a target with an M2 Browning at 2500 yards, Hatchcock's shot is impossible. Well, it's not, and he made it. For reference, here's an average Joe on the range pumping out 6 shots in 5 seconds with a Carcano rifle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4c5Zr7hzzA - Phalanx

You are right. I was mistaken about his father-in-law. But the communist witch hunt in the 1950's was bad here in the states. They were going after screenwriters, novelists and actors among others. Not all of them were spies for the Russians. So why was it that Oswald was allowed to return after defecting without any reprecussions? And then preceed to engage in activity that would have gotten other people arrested. In the atmosphere of the time the fact that he might not have committed any crimes seems irrelevant. My point is that Oswald seems to have been an interesting subject and it does seem possible that perhaps he was some type of patsy. A setup to take attention off of other details. At least for awhile.

Now my question to you. Why are you so hostile in your posting? Relax. We're all having fun here.I was simply speculating. Not trying to start an arguemnt. Please keep that in mind. Thank you.--Jcordell (talk) 17:17, 31 January 2013 (EST)

Not hostile in the slightest. Apologies if it came off that way. - Phalanx

Okay. Not a problem. Like I said on the JFK discussion page I was going off of memory and obviosuly my memory was wrong regarding Oswald's father-in-law. --Jcordell (talk) 18:31, 31 January 2013 (EST)

You're forgetting that by the time of Oswald's defection, the witch hunts were over. This was AFTER McCarthy was censured, when the Red Scare had largely subsided. And besides, Oswald was a nobody, not someone in government or media with any kind of influence. --Maxman (talk) 23:51, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

300 yards? The maximum range of shots at Dealy Plaza was far far less than 100 yards.

Zeroth. They found seven entrance and exit wounds, not seven bullets. Russian executioners could line up five people, have them shot with a 7.63x54R and get five entry wounds and four exit wounds, from one bullet. Easy.

First, the 4.6 seconds was selected by the Warren Commission as the worst case scenario. Their assumption was (break down assume as ass u me), the first shot hit Kennedy's neck and Connelly's back, the second was hurried and missed, the third shot hit Kennedy's head. The neck hit and head explosion were well established and timed by the Zapruder film at 4.6 seconds. They went for worst case scenario 2.3 seconds between shots. Was it possible? At the time the Warren Commission report came out, a British marine on BBC demonstrated firing three rounds in two seconds flat from a bolt action rifle, 0.9 and 1.1 second between three shots.

Second, Failure Analysis Associates the firm entrusted by NASA to evaluate the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster and by NRA to evaluate the Waco evidence examined the Dealy Plaza evidence and determined the first shot actually missed, the second shot hit Kennedy's neck and passed through Connelly's back, and 4.6 seconds later the second shot hit Kennedy's head. I could fire two aimed shots in 4.6 seconds with my Carcano 91/30 from a sitting position very easily. -- Carl N. Brown (talk) 12:16, 14 October 2020 (EDT)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+= Additional Images =
+[[Image:Carcano M44.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carcano M38/43 - 7.92x57mm]]
+[[File:Oswald-Carcano.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Actual Carcano M91/38 used by Lee Harvey Oswald to assassinate John F. Kennedy - 6.5x52mm]]
+= Discussion =
 :Because I'm not the only one on here who thinks the JFK assassination was a bogus cover up, I took a Carcano rifle and tried to rack the action and dry fire it three times in four seconds. Could hardly do it. Now try doing that with live ammunition (causing kick), aim 300yds away at a moving target and try that. This guy was trained in the Marines but even they aren't that good. It's more logical to assume some government officials (or hitmen) were taking shots with M14s at him from the grass knoll. But not to start contreversy or anything, I'm just throwing that out there. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
@@ Line 7: / Line 12: @@
 :::Not at all. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 ::::I'm just looking at it from a logical point of view. Plus, didn't they find like seven bullets in him? Although three were accounted for, the magic bullet theory makes it possible to believe a guy can have seven bullets in him from three rounds (I think that's what that was about but I'm not an expert on the subject). And the government wouldn't allows the mortician to examine certain things. I always thought the ordeal stunk with conspiracy. I'm not a leftist or a communist, but I just see the holes and it makes me suspicious. Of all these things, the gun problem I mentioned above is my strongest belief of a cover up. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
+:::::"didn't they find like seven bullets in him?" No. Kennedy had two through-and-through bullet wounds. Connolly had a bullet in his left thigh, and no, it was not unfired, it has rifling marks and is bent along its axis. --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 23:27, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
 :::: The weirdest thing about this page is that we have this discussion of JFK's murder, a mention of it on the actual page, and no metion of the Oliver Stone movie. [[Special:Contributions/59.100.119.10|59.100.119.10]] 02:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 ::::: The weirdest thing is why would someone won't believe that some crazy nut killed the president but instead some government hitmen. Why would they do that? Gods knows why. Some say it was Israel, some say it was the soviets, some the cuban government and some don't even know why. I say it was Lee Harvey Oswald a former United States Marine that was trained on the [[M1 Garand]]. I know that thinking about a deep conspiracy and letting your imagination run wild is better than thinking a lone 24 year old communist sympathizer could kill the president of the united states of america with a italian rifle made in 1940 alone, all by himself could kill the most powerful person in the world back then in 1963. From what i know about president's Kennedy assassination, they found two bullets in him, one to the head and one to back. The bullet to the head was fatal. I don't believe that president Kennedy was killed by anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald. John, i come from Brazil, a country that suffered a coup d'état in 1964 which the United States government took part so a conspiracy is not too far out there especially during the cold war but to ignore clear evidence that JFK was shoot and killed by Lee Harvey Oswald is stupid. I don't want to offend you John but i find all conspiracy theorys stupid.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 03:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
+::"I took a Carcano rifle and tried to rack the action and dry fire it three times in four seconds. Could hardly do it." So because you couldn't work a bolt action, you decide no one else can and it must be a conspiracy. That is, quite frankly, ludicrous. I wonder what you think of the British Mad Minute (15 hits on a 48" square target at 300 yards in under a minute; the record is 36). Also, the motorcade was only 88 yards from the book depository window, not 300. On top of this, if you time the scene in ''JFK'' where they dryfire the Carcano and declare it can't be fired three times in 5.2 seconds, they dryfire it three times in exactly 5.2 seconds. --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 23:27, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
 :Haliburton had him killed because he was going to pull us out of 'Nam, which was netting Haliburton tons of money in gov't contracts. They used Oswald as a patsy and had Jack Ruby kill him so he wouldn't talk (Ruby was dying from cancer and he didn't give a shit if he was in jail for the last few months of his life). Plus it couldn't have JUST been Oswald shooting because too many shots were fired in too little time. In addition, The Carcarno is a piss poor rifle and Oswald couldn't have shot Kennedy in the back from his position-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 06:23, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 ::No guys, you don't get it. JFK was killed by the New World Order who were working for the Lizard Overlords that control all existance. They iced Kennedy because he was fucking around Vietnam and Nam is the one of the Homes of the Lizard Overlords. They also worked alongside Castro so he could get revenge from the Bay of Pigs incident. Castro is also the Satan himself. The Italian Mob also 5 trillion Lizard Dollars to the Lizard Overlords so they could waste JFK because they hated Kennedy because he was Irish. Obama also travelled back in time using the Delorean with the Help of Doc Brown and killed Kennedy Himself using his Lucifer Powers. Satan and Lucifer are also different people by the way.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 20: / Line 27: @@
 Am I the only one here who is a skeptic? --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 04:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
+All you guys are wrong! There was a single, magic bullet forged by Illuminati mystics who had been hired by Joe DiMaggio to take out Kennedy in revenge for his part in Marilyn Monroe's death! Oswald was just some jerk who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. - [[User: 2wingo]]
+:And the aliens kept at Area 51 were almost certainly involved, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:48, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
+== Oswald ==
+In all seriousness there is one thing about Oswald that has always bugged me. In the 1950's the U.S. government was busy destroying people who had dated girls who got them to go to a Communist party meeting in the 1930's when they were in college. We know that those young guys didn't give a shit about the Communists. They were just wanting to have sex and would have gone to a Tupperware meeting if they thought that was what it would take. Nevertheless twenty years later those same guys are getting destroyed by McCarthy and HCUAC. They were going after janitors who might have known somebody who once expressed sympathies for the Communists for crying out loud. It was a witch hunt after all. Unreasoning and dangerous.
+So then we have Oswald who defects to the Soviet Union during this time period and then returns a few years later ''married'' to the daughter of a Soviet general.A soviet general who was a big shot in their missile command! And what happens to him? Nothing. He's free, no prison time, no trials for treason, his wife isn't detained (evidently) buying guns and handing out all types of bizzaro literature on the streets of New Orleans and hanging out with half-baked revolutionaries. Huh? I don't claim to have a handle on any type of conspiracy regarding the assassination, but doesn't that whole Oswald situation strike anybody as being really strange? All out of step with what was happening in the United States in the 1950's. That's my one major observation.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 11:21, 31 January 2013 (EST)
+Where are you getting your sources from? Marina Prusakova's father died during WWII. Her stepfather was a Colonel, not a General, and he was responsible for internal security in Belarus. He didn't have anything to do with missile command. Also, I think you're severely exaggerating the proportions of the "witch hunt" you're describing. Yes there were crackdowns, but nothing like on the scale you suggest. If that were so, wouldn't the "half-baked revolutionaries" you're citing all be in prison?
+Also, to the guy who said that because he couldn't dry-fire a Carcano rifle 3 times in four seconds then Oswald definitely couldn't have, your reasoning is seriously, seriously flawed. Maybe you're just not that good of a shot. You certainly weren't familiar with that weapons platform, and hadn't practised extensively with it. You probably don't have military training, which Oswald did. That's like me saying that because I can't hit a target with an M2 Browning at 2500 yards, Hatchcock's shot is impossible. Well, it's not, and he made it. For reference, here's an average Joe on the range pumping out 6 shots in 5 seconds with a Carcano rifle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4c5Zr7hzzA - Phalanx
+You are right. I was mistaken about his father-in-law. But the communist witch hunt in the 1950's was bad here in the states. They were going after screenwriters, novelists and actors among others. Not all of them were spies for the Russians. So why was it that Oswald was allowed to return after defecting without any reprecussions? And then preceed to engage in activity that would have gotten other people arrested. In the atmosphere of the time the fact that he might not have committed any crimes seems irrelevant. My point is that Oswald seems to have been an interesting subject and it does seem possible that perhaps he was some type of patsy. A setup to take attention off of other details. At least for awhile.
+Now my question to you. Why are you so hostile in your posting? Relax. We're all having fun here.I was simply speculating. Not trying to start an arguemnt. Please keep that in mind. Thank you.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 17:17, 31 January 2013 (EST)
+Not hostile in the slightest. Apologies if it came off that way. - Phalanx
+Okay. Not a problem. Like I said on the [[JFK]] discussion page I was going off of memory and obviosuly my memory was wrong regarding Oswald's father-in-law.
+--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 18:31, 31 January 2013 (EST)
+You're forgetting that by the time of Oswald's defection, the witch hunts were over. This was AFTER McCarthy was censured, when the Red Scare had largely subsided. And besides, Oswald was a nobody, not someone in government or media with any kind of influence. --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 23:51, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
+yards? The maximum range of shots at Dealy Plaza was far far less than 100 yards.
+Zeroth. They found seven entrance and exit wounds, not seven bullets. Russian executioners could line up five people, have them shot with a 7.63x54R and get five entry wounds and four exit wounds, from one bullet. Easy.
+First, the 4.6 seconds was selected by the Warren Commission as the worst case scenario. Their assumption was (break down assume as ass u me), the first shot hit Kennedy's neck and Connelly's back, the second was hurried and missed, the third shot hit Kennedy's head. The neck hit and head explosion were well established and timed by the Zapruder film at 4.6 seconds. They went for worst case scenario 2.3 seconds between shots. Was it possible? At the time the Warren Commission report came out, a British marine on BBC demonstrated firing three rounds in two seconds flat from a bolt action rifle, 0.9 and 1.1 second between three shots.
+Second, Failure Analysis Associates the firm entrusted by NASA to evaluate the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster and by NRA to evaluate the Waco evidence examined the Dealy Plaza evidence and determined the first shot actually missed, the second shot hit Kennedy's neck and passed through Connelly's back, and 4.6 seconds later the second shot hit Kennedy's head. I could fire two aimed shots in 4.6 seconds with my Carcano 91/30 from a sitting position very easily. -- [[User:Carl N. Brown|Carl N. Brown]] ([[User talk:Carl N. Brown|talk]]) 12:16, 14 October 2020 (EDT)

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Oswald

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