Latest revision as of 02:31, 20 December 2023

Additional Images

Screen-Used

A screen-used Franchi SPAS-12 (12 gauge) from Jurassic Park; the weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used SPAS-12s from the film, as it appeared in a 2018 Heritage Auction listing.

Other Images

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Franchi SPAS-12 with no butt hook and sling, folding stock extended - 12 gauge.

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Franchi SPAS-12 with folded stock, butt hook and sling - 12 gauge.

Discussion

is it just me or are we seeing less and less of the Franchi SPAS-12

Yup, and the AA12 has taken its place. At least the AA12 isn't heavy and useless-S&Wshooter 21:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

- Plus the Benelli M3 gave us the same gun without being quite as heavy or bulky. Still, the SPAS will always have that eternal beefy and badass look to it - Which is the main reason it was used so much. StanTheMan 00:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

It's really strange to me that the AA12 has become the latest, coolest auto-shotgun of choice in movies lately, considering that the design is actually older than the SPAS-12. But yes, Hollywood definitely loves the SPAS, or did. They were still appearing in tons of movies long after Franchi discontinued them. I kinda wish the SPAS-15 had caught on, but no go. -MT2008 01:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I held a Spas 12 last year and it seems to be heavier than my AR. I still have no clue why people love them so damn much-S&Wshooter 02:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

is the look, it has a intimidating appearance. The AA12 looks cool and could be a effective weapons system. I don't see modern army adopting as a main rifle, because it the size of a rifle but don't have the range. Rex095

I'd imagine that no one is going to adopt it as a main rifle because IT'S NOT A RIFLE TO BEGIN WITH.--PistolJunkie 07:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

He meant as a main infantry individual firearm, don't pick on words.

Doesn't matter. PistolJunkie was correct. A shotgun will NEVER be a main infantry weapon anyway. So the initial comment was weird. MoviePropMaster2008 20:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I have the Franchi SPAS 12 in my armory. It sucks. Seriously. It's hard to rack rounds on pump action and it tends to jam on semi auto action (either LIVE rounds at the range or blanks rounds with a BFA doesn't matter, it is still really finicky). It tried hard to be the best of both worlds and sucks at both. It's heavy, clunky and is hard to use. Why do you see so many times in films it's used ONLY as a pump action shotgun? because the semiauto action sucks and jams. What I dont' understand is why Franchi didn't just make a dedicated pump action shotgun that LOOKED like the SPAS12 (to get around the stupid "Assault weapon bans" in various states in the US), cut down on the weight and make the action smooth and light. Just the bad ass looks alone would have been a selling point. :) MoviePropMaster2008 20:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Pfff. i don't care if it looks badass. it a useless hunk of metal. you want a Better, comparible weapon? benelli M3T, ligghter, sleeker, RELIABLE, nearly any shotgun in a combat test would beat a SPAS. For something scary or bad ass that is a better choice for movies? Saiga 12k, Protecta, striker, HS model 10A or a USAS-12. But they picked the SPAS. i was offered to shoot one at a gun convention and i passed. because the SPAS is 9 odd pounds of Scheisse User:SargeOverkill

Guess I'm the only one on this site who loves the SPAS 12. :( 9 pounds, pfff, that's not much at all, the AA12 is probably heavier and it's bulkier than the SPAS 12 to boot (not that the AA12's bad in any way). did you know that heavier shotguns are much easier to control and maintain while firing than say, 6 to 7 pound shotguns. Well MoviePropMaster2008 I think you got a lemon SPAS 12 (I bet you can find a lemon Benelli M1014 (my next favorite shotgun) and it's one of the most reliable shotguns in the world!), I've heard from other sources that the SPAS 12 is very reliable, it's possible you have a civilian version (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun), which is probably inferior to the Military version (Special Purpose Automatic Shotgun). I love the SPAS 12 and all it's heavy bulkiness, and you won't make me think differently. :) I not saying its the best shotgun ever but its diffidently a great one. Try talking to actual SPAS 12 users and see what you get. Oh by the way, Protecta/Striker suck because they take way to long to reload and I've heard the USAS-12 isn't very reliable. What's a HS Model 10A? The SPAS 12 being finicky, 1911 pistols can also be finicky but people still love them and carry them into combat.

Wait a minute. DO YOU OWN ONE? If you don't then you don't hold much sway over those who actually own the shotgun. Also, you asked what an HS10A was. It stands for High Standard Model 10A, which was one of the FIRST bullpup auto shotguns in production. But I wait to see if you own one, and whether or not it is a civilian one or a military one. And also, identify yourself when you post :) MoviePropMaster2008http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:High_standard_10_SHG.jpg

That's cool, but it doesn't look as "scary or bad ass" as the SPAS 12 though. Unfortunately, no, I do not own a one (god I wish I did, I'm too poor), :( but don't count me out. :| Sorry, I just know a lot of stuff about the SPAS 12. My sources are reliable and non-biased. I still think you just got a bad SPAS 12 though. Fussing at me about the liking the SPAS 12, is like fussing at someone for liking the Browning HP or the Colt 1911 80s series instead of the Beretta 92FS or the HK USP45 (The former is technically better than the latter).

I own two Franchi SPAS-12s and have handled SIX. Fussing at you because you like the gun? No. Fussing at you because you're arguing like you know what you're talking about. Yes. It is amazing that you have such a strong opinion of a firearm you don't own and possibly have never even touched or fired. MoviePropMaster2008 06:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Wit one moment... "Military" and "Civilian" Versions? I thought the reason for the "Special Purpose" vs "Sporting Purpose" terminology was because Franchi changed it to be more press-friendly. As far as I knew, they were the same damn gun. Also, anon editor; 9 pounds doesn't look like much on paper, but you compared it to a much larger weapon. Go ahead, pick up a SPAS-12 and try not to feel revolted by the weight. I can also assume that you've never tried operating the "controls" on one. It's like Franchi would rather you never be able to even pump the damn thing. (sorry, MPM08, I don't own one either, but I did get the... "privilege"... to try one out).--PistolJunkie 15:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

- I've read plenty of stuff about the SPAS, and from what I gather, the overall quality and practicality of the gun is questionable at best. I've read several things and notes, some good and some bad, and 'seems questionable' is the overall opinion I make. I won't ever have a valid personal opinion of my own until I try one out for myself - and until then, I will speak with no certainty of any kind about the SPAS. I will say that the others have a point about the weight though - 9 lbs is actually quite heavy for a shoulder-arm, especially for one you might have to lug around for a while. Nonetheless, nobody's trying to discount you because you like them. I think it does look cool and awesome, and like it to that extent myself. But I think the same way about a number of guns, some of which are no better than the SPAS in terms of practical use. Good aesthetics is nice but it doesn't automatically equal a great firearm. Like you, I'd still like to handle one, if only to see for myself whether or not it is that bad. In the end, I will give MPM's word some considerable weight, as the man has handled more firearms than I can even count (and indeed owns about that many). To Franchi's credit, I will give them a bit of a break for trying to be somewhat innovative. Even if it didn't work all that well in the case of the SPAS, it helped pave the way for the Benelli M3 and probably helped some other concepts as well that do work. But overall, in a practical sense, the weapon is not the most desirable from what I've read. Again, that's my own view though. StanTheMan 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks StanTheMan my head was about to explode. :) I am diffidently giving MPM's word some considerable weight. Frankly, I don't give a damn about weight. A fully kited M16A4 or other like assault rifles weighs 10 pounds or even more, a milled receiver AK-47 type III weighs over 10 pounds, and a Thompson Sub Machine Gun weighs almost 14 pounds! I don't even know how much an AA12 weighs, 10 to 16 pounds. revolted by the weight, please. And I can't sign because I don't have an account, and I don't know if I want one anymore, because every gun page I go on everybody hates every gun, the 92FS, 1911, G36, MP5, Tommy Gun etc. God the SPAS 12 isn't like the L85A1 or something.

Look, the SPAS is an awful weapon. the Irish Army Rangers figured that out pretty quick and booted it in favor of the Benelli M3T. the Striker and protecta are meant for lightning assault and ambushes. USAS is a very well made shotgun. the High Standards Model 10A is a very innovative shotgun. the Saiga 12K is the BEST shotgun in my mind, Semi Auto, Magazine Fed, Reliable and light. it is much better than the SPAS. i can think of nearly 15+ shotguns that would beet the SPAS in nearly any category. and by the way Badassness is not a real category-User:SargeOverkill

I thought people gave up SPAS 12 because it was "big and heavy" not because it was unreliable. Kinda like the Navy SEALs gave up the Mark. 23 because it was "big and heavy".

no, the SPAS was dumped because the IAR decided it was unreliable and not worth the price. then the adopted by the M3t. BTW you right about the MK23 but that was a reliable pistol. plus the P226, the MK23 replacement held more ammo. which was good for Log Range Recon patrols.-User:SargeOverkill

That sucks, the SOCOM only holds three less rounds and it's a very controllable and accurate .45

I agree. A very good .45 is the HK45-User:SargeOverkill

Not good as the MK23 though. :(

Well, at least I have the Benelli M1014/M4 to fall back on. :P -(The guy who liked The SPAS 12 and fussed about it but doesn't own one. :P) Edit: I just found out that the later model SPAS 12s in nearly new condition are very reliable with almost all types of shotgun ammunition in semi-auto and are much easier to pump, look here link idk, what do you think. :)

I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any. No the MK23 isn't worth the price, neither is the USP or the HK45. If you want on my page is a link that sums up what I think of HK that is truthful.--FIVETWOSEVEN 20:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

What are you talking about! The MK23 is a great handgun, it's just kinda big and heavy. The USP may not be as accurate as the 92FS or the P220/P226 but it's a excellent and high quality handgun. What's your problem? Are you the same guy who hates the Beretta 92FS?

No, the Mk23 is a terrible handgun. It may be accurate and reliable, but there are dozens of other weapons that are just as reliable and accurate without being an awkward, oversized, poorly balanced foot-long piece of metal that costs $2,000. And how does him hating the MK.23 have anything to do with the 92F?--PistolJunkie 21:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The guns that I hate are the ones that don't work and the newer HK guns. I'm pretty biased against them because of their overpriced guns and them crapping on the civilians. I think the 92 is a wonderful handgun. If you decide to make an account, answer this, how is the USP series worth the higher price? What makes it high quality?--FIVETWOSEVEN 23:43, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer pistols cost just as much as H&K pistols. :| - Mr. Wolf 00:06, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

My main argument with the heavy use of shotguns like the SPAS-12, USAS-12 and the AA-12 is how widespread they seem to be in use in films as though they are in the day to day armouries of various law enforcement or military units or, for that matter, civilians. This is especially since the SPAS has not been manufactured in eleven years, the USAS is classified as a destructive device and is therefore Class 3 never mind the availability of the AA 12. It would be more realistic, though less sexy I am sure, to use the Mossberg M590, Benelli M3 or M1014 or the classic Remington 870. --Charon68 09:14, 10 December 2011 (CST)

The Mossberg 590, Benelli M3, M1014, and the Remington 870 are my favorite shotguns and they are very sexy, especially the M1014. :) - Mr. Wolf 10:15, 10 December 2011 (CST)

Just protected this page

Don't like completely ANONYMOUS IP addresses arguing with folks. Once you get to a certain point of talking with (and more importantly arguing with IMFDB members) you had better make an account so that you have a contribution history. MoviePropMaster2008 23:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm surprised that this whole site isn't locked so that only people with accounts can post. That would weed alot of the idiots out.--FIVETWOSEVEN 23:40, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any.

With all due respect, Mr. Five-Two-Seven, the fact that you've read Larry Correia's "HK. Because you suck." blog post doesn't make you any more "experienced" than most of the people on here (I posted that article for discussion on IMFDB's forum almost two years ago). You aren't even old enough to purchase long guns, let alone pistols. You really might want to stop running around and touting your own expertise; since you claim you hate other people who do it, it's hard not to think of you as a hypocrite. -MT2008 00:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I know it's a gun site but, FOOL(FIVETWOSEVEN) YOU JUST GOT OWNED IN THE FACE!-User:SargeOverkill Besides HK is an awesome firearms manufacturer.

Just because a manufacturer makes good products doesn't mean they can't be overhyped. -Anonymous

I guess thats true. anytime whether combat or just collecting you always diversify, don't just stick with your favorite brand. either way HK is preeeetty high up there on my list.-User:SargeOverkill

I can get guns that are just as accurate and reliable for much cheaper than a HK handgun. Also, what makes the MR556 better than a regular $1,000 AR 15? Yes they make good guns, but they are overpriced IMO. I may not have alot of experiance but I can still read history, they stopped selling trigger packs of G36 rifles because some departments were selling them on the civilian market and using them to convert their SL-8 rifles. I don't need to be 50+ years old and shooting all my life to see that a company has anti gun tendencies. I'll spend my money elsewhere thank you.--FIVETWOSEVEN 19:50, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

You miss the point, FiveTwoSeven - nobody is trying to argue with you about the superiority or inferiority of H&K firearms. Not to mention that you are conflating the quality of their products with their "anti-gun" attitudes (those are two separate matters). My point is, it's so obvious that you are trying to sound superior even though you clearly are just taking Larry Correia's words in your mouth. You seem to think your opinion is worthy of respect that you haven't earned (unlike him). In case you forgot, Larry himself pointed out in his "HK. Because you suck." blog post that he mostly just wants people to stop extolling firearms that they haven't shot. Even if you are right about H&K, you are still doing exactly what he warned against. Bottom line: You aren't Larry Correia, so stop trying to be. -MT2008 09:14, 21 April 2011 (CDT)

Butt hook

What is it for, exactly? Sentient6 14:42, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok here's my thoughts on everything. The butt hook was designed for 1 handed shooting (crazy right) for use while handlking a prisoner or shooting out of a moving vehicle (damned crazy italien designers). In practical use the butt hook, much like thae rest of the SPAS is awkward and poorley excecuted. Which is why you never see the hook used much, if at all in movies. I think the one handed use was primarily for police use with rioat or bean bag rounds but it never really worked. I find the SPAS itself to be the ideal hollywood gun, as, lets be honest, it does look cool. But its too big and clunky, the pump is too heavy and the semi jams up all kinds of bad. I dont own one but i have (tried) to use one, and found the semi action stovepipes all too often (much like in Jurassic park infact). As for the pistol rant, I do love the Mk23 and would take it over the USP as the accuraccy on the 23 is unbelievable (and frankly out weighs the size issue), but if im going for a .45 ill go 1911 all the way.--Captain Snikt 17:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible?

On the the page for The Terminator, one of the screencap descriptions says that the SPAS-12's folding stock is designed for the shooter to fire the gun with one hand. But now I am wondering, is it even possible to fire a SPAS-12 one-handed? (despite the fact that a 12-gauge shotgun blast would be a little too much for one-handed firing) Even though one-handed firing is discouraged outside the fantasy realm of movies, is it possible to fire the SPAS-12 one handed? --ThatoneguyJosh 07:08, 20 April 2011 (CDT)

It wouldn't surprise me if it was possible; it sounds like something which wouldn't be enormously practical or fun to do, mind you. Evil Tim 07:25, 20 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, It's possible to shoot shotguns with one hand, it just takes a bit of practice. I heard from reliable sources (aka, the 12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun discussion page) that the recoil from a shortened shotgun (aka, a Mossbreg 590 Compact Cruiser, a Sawn-off DB shotgun, etc) is only a bit more than a .44 magnum revolver and another one said it also helps if your used to shooting .357 Mags or .44 Mags. So shooting a SPAS-12 one handed wouldn't be much of a problem, given it's almost 10 pound weight and that the hook attached to the stock is braced under your forearm. I have a extremely accurate replica of a SPAS-12 and holding it one handed with the stock folded is quite tricky but with the stock out and the hook braced under my forearm it is surprisingly balanced and point-able. - Mr. Wolf 15:04, 20 April 2011 (CDT)

It's possible. I've done it with my own SPAS-12 and it's actually not that bad. The hardest part is trying to keep it held up long enough to take aim and fire.Gato 13:37, 25 April 2011 (CDT)

Ammo Compacity

I've noticed that the SPAS-12 has a short barreled version, yet I've never seen a note saying that this version has a lesser ammo capacity than the normal sized SPAS. Does a standard SPAS have a plug in the magazine tube causing the 2 to have an equal number of rounds? Or am I just missing something here? --Glockness Monster 23:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

There's 8 and 6 round tube magazine versions; the shorty uses the 6-rounder. Here's Wikipedia's image of the two different tubes on two normal barrel length SPAS-12s. Evil Tim 03:30, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

Good to know, thank you sir. --Glockness Monster 22:55, 17 July 2011 (CDT)

As a random aside, the one there with the short magazine tube is some sort of post-ban version; if you look carefully you can see it's actually a shorty version which has had what I think is a choke tube welded to the barrel to extend it. Evil Tim 00:56, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

So it is illegal to own a short barrelled version. That is mildly disappointing. --Glockness Monster

Wikipedia says the 6-round one with the fixed stock is due to shotgun import restrictions imposed by the BATF in 1989, I guess the folding stock / 8 round SPAS got dinged as a "military firearm" or something. Not illegal to own one, apparently the 24-inch ones with welded choke tubes are complying with UK shotgun laws. Evil Tim 22:07, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

Actually firing semiauto on film

I have to commend Mr. Steve Karnes for actually getting it to fire self-load/semiauto in Virtuosity, it was very impressive. That said, there is only one other instance AT ALL that I can think of where a SPAS actually fires semiauto (or appears to, at least), and that is in the fourth Halloween film (The Revenge of Micheal Myers). I wonder if that was another special blank modification of some kind or something. Of course it could just be editing trickery, I'm not sure really. Doesn't seem to be though. In any case, it is the real thing in Virtuosity and that is just very neat and rare and, though it's noted on the Virtuosity page(s) it still deserves a special mention. I meant to say this sooner but oh well, here ya go. Anyway, Excellent job sir. StanTheMan 15:26, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

In The Wraith it also appears to be fired in semi-auto also. While a good portion of the scene is quick cuts, there are several shots of him firing it multiple times without going pump action Another thing that interesting is SPAS-12 used in the film, it has the overfolding stock and a full wood stock. --Predator20 16:51, 24 July 2011 (CDT)

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:TW-SPAS12-1.jpg http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:TW-SPAS12-2.jpg

I just saw a JCVD movie where a thug used it in semi-auto. Gonna screencap it now. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 09:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)

There was definitely some semi-auto fire in Stargate SG1, season 5, episode 19: 'Menace'. Also in the season 3, episode 22: 'Nemesis' was the only example I can ever recall seeing of the folding stock actually being used. Pravda616 18:54 18/8/11

For the record, I've got my SPAS-12s to fire semi auto, but it's not that reliable. I can always get about 3 shots off before a malfunction. But that's not good enough for most directors ;) Sure I could spend a lot of effort refining it, but most directors just want the pump, primarily for 100% reliability for takes. It is seriously embarrassing to have a 'gun malfunction' of any type be responsible for a re-take on film. You don't know what dirty looks are until you're the one who is costing the production a ton of money for. Now I've been about to appreciate the pressure that's on actors who flub their lines. :) MoviePropMaster2008 13:52, 10 December 2011 (CST)

Hindrances to adoption: The unsafe safety and shotgun doctrine

I notice that the article mentions that the original lever safeties are in fact so flawed that they can cause the gun to fire when taken off of safe, without touching the trigger! I don't know of any sources offhand that cite this being one reason for poor adoption, but I feel it's probably one reason.

Also, I'm under the impression that its poor adoption has been due to the fact that a dual-purpose shotgun is basically solving a problem that law enforcement bodies don't have under modern shotgun doctrines. I can't find a good source for this (Hopefully someone here has one or can correct me if I'm wrong!), but if I understand correctly most doctrines ensure that less-lethal rounds are only loaded into specifically-designated (and often painted) shotguns, and NEVER into shotguns loaded with lethal rounds. This is done because having a situation where a police officer can be unsure about whether less-lethal or lethal rounds are loaded in his shotgun is a tragedy waiting to happen.

I feel both of these are probably worth mentioning as reasons why the SPAS-12 was a (at least, relative to its screen presence) commercial failure, but wanted some feedback instead of adding it right away. Ontariotaku (talk) 13:02, 24 May 2018 (EDT)

FIE Corp VS American Arms Inc.???

I stumbled upon this statement:

"For the longest time, I used to wonder why games would portray the SPAS-12 with the distinct railing, and others would not. It turns out that the FIE Corp variant is seen here (which is also used in 007 Nightfire), with its stock folded up, whereas the other version (seen in The Division 2, Half-Life 2 and Agent Under Fire) is the American Arms Inc. fixed-stock version."

I can't even comprehend what it was supposed to convey... maybe that SPASes made by one company where fixed stock and the ones by the other were foldable? Could anyone decipher this for me? --Nanomat (talk) 02:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thats basically what it means, yeah. FIE Corp imported the SPAS-12 with folding stocks before they got blocked by the ATF. One of the stipulations for American Arms importing SPAS-12s was the fixed stock. I highly doubt this means anything since the stock is interchangeable between the two versions, and the author seems to be incorrectly identifying the SPAS-12 variations that appears in those games. --Fine cuisine (talk) 11:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

to clarify, "FIE Corp" and "American Arms" were just different importing companies; these were all made by Franchi. I wouldn't necessarily take an esoteric blog like that as gospel.--AgentGumby (talk) 13:37, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, so that confirms my suspicion that the blog gave too much credit to importing companies. --Nanomat (talk) 02:30, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+=Additional Images=
+==Screen-Used==
+[[Image:JurassicPark-SPAS12-1-HeritageAuction.jpg|thumb|450px|none|A screen-used Franchi SPAS-12 (12 gauge) from ''[[Jurassic Park]]''; the weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used SPAS-12s from the film, as it appeared in a [https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/movie-tv-memorabilia/spas-shotgun-prop-from-jurassic-park/a/997049-2531.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 2018 Heritage Auction listing].]]
+==Other Images==
+[[File:SPAS-12 with no butt hook.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi SPAS-12 with no butt hook and sling, folding stock extended - 12 gauge.]]
+[[File:SPAS-12 with folded stock, butt hock and sling.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi SPAS-12 with folded stock, butt hook and sling - 12 gauge.]]
+=Discussion=
 is it just me or are we seeing less and less of the Franchi SPAS-12
 :Yup, and the AA12 has taken its place. At least the AA12 isn't heavy and useless-[[User:S&amp;Wshooter|S&amp;Wshooter]] 21:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 12: / Line 20: @@
 :He meant as a main infantry individual firearm, don't pick on words.
 ::Doesn't matter. [[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] was correct.  A shotgun will NEVER be a main infantry weapon anyway. So the initial comment was weird. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 I have the Franchi SPAS 12 in my armory.  It sucks.  Seriously.  It's hard to rack rounds on pump action and it tends to jam on semi auto action (either LIVE rounds at the range or blanks rounds with a BFA doesn't matter, it is still really finicky).  It tried hard to be the best of both worlds and sucks at both.  It's heavy, clunky and is hard to use.  Why do you see so many times in films it's used ONLY as a pump action shotgun?  because the semiauto action sucks and jams.  What I dont' understand is why Franchi didn't just make a dedicated pump action shotgun that LOOKED like the SPAS12 (to get around the stupid "Assault weapon bans" in various states in the US), cut down on the weight and make the action smooth and light.  Just the bad ass looks alone would have been a selling point. :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 21: / Line 27: @@
 Guess I'm the only one on this site who loves the SPAS 12. :( 9 pounds, pfff, that's not much at all, the AA12 is probably heavier and it's bulkier than the SPAS 12 to boot (not that the AA12's bad in any way). did you know that heavier shotguns are much easier to control and maintain while firing than say, 6 to 7 pound shotguns. Well MoviePropMaster2008 I think you got a lemon SPAS 12 (I bet you can find a lemon Benelli M1014 (my next favorite shotgun) and it's one of the most reliable shotguns in the world!), I've heard from other sources that the SPAS 12 is very reliable, it's possible you have a civilian version (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun), which is probably inferior to the Military version (Special Purpose Automatic Shotgun). I love the SPAS 12 and all it's heavy bulkiness, and you won't make me think differently. :) I not saying its the best shotgun ever but its diffidently a great one. Try talking to actual SPAS 12 users and see what you get. Oh by the way, Protecta/Striker suck because they take way to long to reload and I've heard the USAS-12 isn't very reliable. What's a HS Model 10A? The SPAS 12 being finicky, 1911 pistols can also be finicky but people still love them and carry them into combat.
-::Wait a minute. ''' DO YOU OWN ONE?''' If you don't then you don't hold much sway over those who actually own the shotgun.  Also, you asked what an HS10A was.  It stands for High Standard Model 10A, which was one of the FIRST bullpup auto shotguns in production.  But I wait to see if you own one, and whether or not it is a civilian one or a military one.  And also, identify yourself when you post :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
+::Wait a minute. ''' DO YOU OWN ONE?''' If you don't then you don't hold much sway over those who actually own the shotgun.  Also, you asked what an HS10A was.  It stands for High Standard Model 10A, which was one of the FIRST bullpup auto shotguns in production.  But I wait to see if you own one, and whether or not it is a civilian one or a military one.  And also, identify yourself when you post :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg
-[[Image:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|High Standard Model 10A shotgun - 12 gauge.  The Model 10A had the flashlight integral to the body of the shotgun and is the rarer of the two models.]]
+http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:High_standard_10_SHG.jpg
-[[Image:High standard 10 SHG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|High Standard Model 10B shotgun - 12 gauge.  The Model 10B had a removeable carry handle and bar to attach both a handle and a flashlight.]]
 :That's cool, but it doesn't look as "scary or bad ass" as the SPAS 12 though. Unfortunately, no, I do not own a one (god I wish I did, I'm too poor), :( but don't count me out. :| Sorry, I just know a lot of stuff about the SPAS 12. My sources are reliable and non-biased. I still think you just got a bad SPAS 12 though. Fussing at me about the liking the SPAS 12, is like fussing at someone for liking the Browning HP or the Colt 1911 80s series instead of the Beretta 92FS or the HK USP45 (The former is technically better than the latter).
 ::I own two Franchi SPAS-12s and have handled SIX.  Fussing at you because you like the gun?  No.  Fussing at you because you're arguing like you know what you're talking about. Yes.  It is amazing that you have such a strong opinion of a firearm you don't own and possibly have never even touched or fired.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 29: / Line 35: @@
 ::- I've read plenty of stuff about the SPAS, and from what I gather, the overall quality and practicality of the gun is questionable at best. I've read several things and notes, some good and some bad, and 'seems questionable' is the overall opinion I make. I won't ever have a valid personal opinion of my own until I try one out for myself - and until then, I will speak with no certainty of any kind about the SPAS. I will say that the others have a point about the weight though - 9 lbs is actually quite heavy for a shoulder-arm, especially for one you might have to lug around for a while. Nonetheless, nobody's trying to discount you because you like them. I think it does look cool and awesome, and like it to that extent myself. But I think the same way about a number of guns, some of which are no better than the SPAS in terms of practical use. Good aesthetics is nice but it doesn't automatically equal a great firearm. Like you, I'd still like to handle one, if only to see for myself whether or not it is that bad. In the end, I will give MPM's word some considerable weight, as the man has handled more firearms than I can even count (and indeed owns about that many). To Franchi's credit, I will give them a bit of a break for trying to be somewhat innovative. Even if it didn't work all that well in the case of the SPAS, it helped pave the way for the Benelli M3 and probably helped some other concepts as well that do work. But overall, in a practical sense, the weapon is not the most desirable from what I've read. Again, that's my own view though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
-:Thanks StanTheMan my head was about to explode. :) I am diffidently giving MPM's word some considerable weight. Frankly, I don't give a damn about weight. A fully kited M16A4 or other like assault rifles weighs 10 pounds or even more, a milled receiver AK-47 type III weighs over 10 pounds, and a Thompson Sub Machine Gun weighs almost 14 pounds! I don't even know how much an AA12 weighs, 10 to 16 pounds. revolted by the weight, please. And I can't sign because I don't have an account, and I don't know if I want one anymore, because every gun page I go on everybody hates every gun, the 92FS, 1911, USP, G36, MP5, Tommy Gun etc. God the SPAS 12 isn't like the L85A1 or something.
+:Thanks StanTheMan my head was about to explode. :) I am diffidently giving MPM's word some considerable weight. Frankly, I don't give a damn about weight. A fully kited M16A4 or other like assault rifles weighs 10 pounds or even more, a milled receiver AK-47 type III weighs over 10 pounds, and a Thompson Sub Machine Gun weighs almost 14 pounds! I don't even know how much an AA12 weighs, 10 to 16 pounds. revolted by the weight, please. And I can't sign because I don't have an account, and I don't know if I want one anymore, because every gun page I go on everybody hates every gun, the 92FS, 1911, G36, MP5, Tommy Gun etc. God the SPAS 12 isn't like the L85A1 or something.
 Look, the SPAS is an awful weapon. the Irish Army Rangers figured that out pretty quick and booted it in favor of the Benelli M3T. the Striker and protecta are meant for lightning assault and ambushes. USAS is a very well made shotgun. the High Standards Model 10A is a very innovative shotgun. the Saiga 12K is the BEST shotgun in my mind, Semi Auto, Magazine Fed, Reliable and light. it is much better than the SPAS. i can think of nearly 15+ shotguns that would beet the SPAS in nearly any category. and by the way Badassness is not a real category-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
@@ Line 35: / Line 41: @@
 no, the SPAS was dumped because the IAR decided it was unreliable and not worth the price. then the adopted by the M3t. BTW you right about the MK23 but that was a reliable pistol. plus the P226, the MK23 replacement held more ammo. which was good for Log Range Recon patrols.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
+:That sucks, the SOCOM only holds three less rounds and it's a very controllable and accurate .45
+I agree. A very good .45 is the HK45-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
+:Not good as the MK23 though. :(
+Well, at least I have the Benelli M1014/M4 to fall back on. :P -(The guy who liked The SPAS 12 and fussed about it but doesn't own one. :P) Edit: I just found out that the later model SPAS 12s in nearly new condition are very reliable with almost all types of shotgun ammunition in semi-auto and are much easier to pump, look here [http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=c61939ed37126617a3e1a46d5f017e89&t=60729/ link] idk, what do you think. :)
+I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any. No the MK23 isn't worth the price, neither is the USP or the HK45. If you want on my page is a link that sums up what I think of HK that is truthful.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
+:What are you talking about! The MK23 is a great handgun, it's just kinda big and heavy. The USP may not be as accurate as the 92FS or the P220/P226 but it's a excellent and high quality handgun. What's your problem? Are you the same guy who hates the Beretta 92FS?
+::No, the Mk23 is a terrible handgun. It may be accurate and reliable, but there are ''dozens'' of other weapons that are just as reliable and accurate without being an awkward, oversized, poorly balanced foot-long piece of metal that costs $2,000. And how does him hating the MK.23 have anything to do with the 92F?--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 21:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
+The guns that I hate are the ones that don't work and the newer HK guns. I'm pretty biased against them because of their overpriced guns and them crapping on the civilians. I think the 92 is a wonderful handgun. If you decide to make an account, answer this, how is the USP series worth the higher price? What makes it high quality?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:43, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
+:SIG-Sauer pistols cost just as much as H&K pistols. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:06, 10 July 2011 (CDT)
+My main argument with the heavy use of shotguns like the SPAS-12, USAS-12 and the AA-12 is how widespread they seem to be in use in films as though they are in the day to day armouries of various law enforcement or military units or, for that matter, civilians.  This is especially since the SPAS has not been manufactured in eleven years, the USAS is classified as a destructive device and is therefore Class 3 never mind the availability of the AA 12.  It would be more realistic, though less sexy I am sure, to use the Mossberg M590, Benelli M3 or M1014 or the classic Remington 870.  --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 09:14, 10 December 2011 (CST)
+:The Mossberg 590, Benelli M3, M1014, and the Remington 870 are my favorite shotguns and they ''are'' very sexy, especially the M1014. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 10:15, 10 December 2011 (CST)
+==Just protected this page==
+Don't like completely ANONYMOUS IP addresses arguing with folks.  Once you get to a certain point of talking with (and more importantly arguing with IMFDB members) you had better make an account so that you have a contribution history.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
+I'm surprised that this whole site isn't locked so that only people with accounts can post. That would weed alot of the idiots out.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:40, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
+::''I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any.''
+::With all due respect, Mr. Five-Two-Seven, the fact that you've read Larry Correia's "HK. Because you suck." blog post doesn't make you any more "experienced" than most of the people on here (I posted that article for discussion on IMFDB's forum almost two years ago). You aren't even old enough to purchase long guns, let alone pistols. You really might want to stop running around and touting your own expertise; since you claim you hate other people who do it, it's hard not to think of you as a hypocrite. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
+I know it's a gun site but, FOOL(FIVETWOSEVEN) YOU JUST GOT OWNED IN THE FACE!-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
+Besides HK is an awesome firearms manufacturer.
+Just because a manufacturer makes good products doesn't mean they can't be overhyped. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
+I guess thats true. anytime whether combat or just collecting you always diversify, don't just stick with your favorite brand. either way HK is preeeetty high up there on my list.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
+I can get guns that are just as accurate and reliable for much cheaper than a HK handgun. Also, what makes the MR556 better than a regular $1,000 AR 15? Yes they make good guns, but they are overpriced IMO. I may not have alot of experiance but I can still read history, they stopped selling trigger packs of G36 rifles because some departments were selling them on the civilian market and using them to convert their SL-8 rifles. I don't need to be 50+ years old and shooting all my life to see that a company has anti gun tendencies. I'll spend my money elsewhere thank you.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:50, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
+::You miss the point, FiveTwoSeven - nobody is trying to argue with you about the superiority or inferiority of H&K firearms. Not to mention that you are conflating the quality of their products with their "anti-gun" attitudes (those are two separate matters). My point is, it's so obvious that you are trying to sound superior even though you clearly are just taking Larry Correia's words in your mouth. You seem to think your opinion is worthy of respect that you haven't earned (''unlike'' him). In case you forgot, Larry himself pointed out in his "HK. Because you suck." blog post that he mostly just wants people to stop extolling firearms that they haven't shot. Even if you are right about H&K, you are still doing exactly what he warned against. Bottom line: You aren't Larry Correia, so stop trying to be. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 09:14, 21 April 2011 (CDT)
+==Butt hook==
+What is it for, exactly?  [[User:Sentient6|Sentient6]] 14:42, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
+Ok here's my thoughts on everything. The butt hook was designed for 1 handed shooting (crazy right) for use while handlking a prisoner or shooting out of a moving vehicle (damned crazy italien designers). In practical use the butt hook, much like thae rest of the SPAS is awkward and poorley excecuted. Which is why you never see the hook used much, if at all in movies. I think the one handed use was primarily for police use with rioat or bean bag rounds but it never really worked. I find the SPAS itself to be the ideal hollywood gun, as, lets be honest, it does look cool. But its too big and clunky, the pump is too heavy and the semi jams up all kinds of bad. I dont own one but i have (tried) to use one, and found the semi action stovepipes all too often (much like in Jurassic park infact). As for the pistol rant, I do love the Mk23 and would take it over the USP as the accuraccy on the 23 is unbelievable (and frankly out weighs the size issue), but if im going for a .45 ill go 1911 all the way.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 17:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
+== Is it possible? ==
+On the the page for [[The Terminator]], one of the screencap descriptions says that the SPAS-12's folding stock is designed for the shooter to fire the gun with one hand. But now I am wondering, is it even possible to fire a SPAS-12 one-handed? (despite the fact that a 12-gauge shotgun blast would be a little too much for one-handed firing) Even though one-handed firing is discouraged outside the fantasy realm of movies, is it possible to fire the SPAS-12 one handed? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 07:08, 20 April 2011 (CDT)
+:It wouldn't surprise me if it was possible; it sounds like something which wouldn't be enormously practical or fun to do, mind you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:25, 20 April 2011 (CDT)
+::Yes, It's possible to shoot shotguns with one hand, it just takes a bit of practice. I heard from reliable sources (aka, the [[Talk:12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun discussion page]]) that the recoil from a shortened shotgun (aka, a Mossbreg 590 Compact Cruiser, a Sawn-off DB shotgun, etc) is only a bit more than a .44 magnum revolver and another one said it also helps if your used to shooting .357 Mags or .44 Mags. So shooting a SPAS-12 one handed wouldn't be much of a problem, given it's almost 10 pound weight and that the hook attached to the stock is braced under your forearm. I have a extremely accurate replica of a SPAS-12 and holding it one handed with the stock folded is quite tricky but with the stock out and the hook braced under my forearm it is surprisingly balanced and point-able. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:04, 20 April 2011 (CDT)
+::It's possible. I've done it with my own SPAS-12 and it's actually not that bad. The hardest part is trying to keep it held up long enough to take aim and fire.[[User:Gato|Gato]] 13:37, 25 April 2011 (CDT)
+== Ammo Compacity ==
+I've noticed that the SPAS-12 has a short barreled version, yet I've never seen a note saying that this version has a lesser ammo capacity than the normal sized SPAS. Does a standard SPAS have a plug in the magazine tube causing the 2 to have an equal number of rounds? Or am I just missing something here? --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 23:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)
+:There's 8 and 6 round tube magazine versions; the shorty uses the 6-rounder. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SPAS_12_Fixed_Stock_and_Folding_Stock.JPG Here's Wikipedia's image of the two different tubes on two normal barrel length SPAS-12s]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:30, 10 July 2011 (CDT)
+Good to know, thank you sir. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 22:55, 17 July 2011 (CDT)
+:As a random aside, the one there with the short magazine tube is some sort of post-ban version; if you look carefully you can see it's actually a shorty version which has had what I think is a choke tube welded to the barrel to extend it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:56, 18 July 2011 (CDT)
+So it is illegal to own a short barrelled version. That is mildly disappointing. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]]
+:Wikipedia says the 6-round one with the fixed stock is due to shotgun import restrictions imposed by the BATF in 1989, I guess the folding stock / 8 round SPAS got dinged as a "military firearm" or something. Not illegal to own one, apparently the 24-inch ones with welded choke tubes are complying with ''UK'' shotgun laws. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:07, 19 July 2011 (CDT)
+== Actually firing semiauto on film ==
+I have to commend [[User:Phoenixent|Mr. Steve Karnes]] for actually getting it to fire self-load/semiauto in [[Virtuosity]], it was very impressive. That said, there is only one other instance AT ALL that I can think of where a SPAS actually fires semiauto (or appears to, at least), and that is in the fourth Halloween film (The Revenge of Micheal Myers). I wonder if that was another special blank modification of some kind or something. Of course it could just be editing trickery, I'm not sure really. Doesn't seem to be though. In any case, it is the real thing in Virtuosity and that is just very neat and rare and, though it's noted on the Virtuosity page(s) it still deserves a special mention. I meant to say this sooner but oh well, here ya go. Anyway, Excellent job sir. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:26, 24 July 2011 (CDT)
+:In ''[[The Wraith]]'' it also appears to be fired in semi-auto also. While a good portion of the scene is quick cuts, there are several shots of him firing it multiple times without going pump action Another thing that interesting is SPAS-12 used in the film, it has the overfolding stock and a full wood stock. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:51, 24 July 2011 (CDT)
+http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:TW-SPAS12-1.jpg
+http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:TW-SPAS12-2.jpg
+:I just saw a JCVD movie where a thug used it in semi-auto. Gonna screencap it now. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 09:35, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
+::There was definitely some semi-auto fire in Stargate SG1, season 5, episode 19: 'Menace'. Also in the season 3, episode 22: 'Nemesis' was the only example I can ever recall seeing of the folding stock actually being used. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 18:54 18/8/11
+:::For the record, I've got my SPAS-12s to fire semi auto, but it's not that reliable.  I can always get about 3 shots off before a malfunction.  But that's not good enough for most directors ;)  Sure I could spend a lot of effort refining it, but most directors just want the pump, primarily for 100% reliability for takes.  It is seriously embarrassing to have a 'gun malfunction' of any type be responsible for a re-take on film.  You don't know what dirty looks are until you're the one who is costing the production a ton of money for.  Now I've been about to  appreciate the pressure that's on actors who flub their lines. :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 13:52, 10 December 2011 (CST)
+== Hindrances to adoption: The unsafe safety and shotgun doctrine ==
+I notice that the article mentions that the original lever safeties are in fact [https://youtu.be/LlaOlqBC-yA?t=1m12s so flawed that they can cause the gun to fire when taken off of safe, without touching the trigger!] I don't know of any sources offhand that cite this being one reason for poor adoption, but I feel it's probably one reason.
+Also, I'm under the impression that its poor adoption has been due to the fact that a dual-purpose shotgun is basically solving a problem that law enforcement bodies don't have under modern shotgun doctrines. I can't find a good source for this (Hopefully someone here has one or can correct me if I'm wrong!), but if I understand correctly most doctrines ensure that less-lethal rounds are only loaded into specifically-designated (and often painted) shotguns, and NEVER into shotguns loaded with lethal rounds. This is done because having a situation where a police officer can be unsure about whether less-lethal or lethal rounds are loaded in his shotgun is a tragedy waiting to happen.
+I feel both of these are probably worth mentioning as reasons why the SPAS-12 was a (at least, relative to its screen presence) commercial failure, but wanted some feedback instead of adding it right away. [[User:Ontariotaku|Ontariotaku]] ([[User talk:Ontariotaku|talk]]) 13:02, 24 May 2018 (EDT)
+== FIE Corp VS American Arms Inc.??? ==
+I stumbled upon [https://infinitemirai.wordpress.com/2021/06/14/call-of-duty-black-ops-cold-war-part-iii-review-and-reflection-behind-enemy-lines-in-moscow-and-cuba/ this statement]:
+''"For the longest time, I used to wonder why games would portray the SPAS-12 with the distinct railing, and others would not. It turns out that the FIE Corp variant is seen here (which is also used in 007 Nightfire), with its stock folded up, whereas the other version (seen in The Division 2, Half-Life 2 and Agent Under Fire) is the American Arms Inc. fixed-stock version."''
+I can't even comprehend what it was supposed to convey... maybe that SPASes made by one company where fixed stock and the ones by the other were foldable? Could anyone decipher this for me? --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 02:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+:Thats basically what it means, yeah. FIE Corp imported the SPAS-12 with folding stocks before they got blocked by the ATF. One of the stipulations for American Arms importing SPAS-12s was the fixed stock. I highly doubt this means anything since the stock is interchangeable between the two versions, and the author seems to be incorrectly identifying the SPAS-12 variations that appears in those games. --[[User:Fine cuisine|Fine cuisine]] ([[User talk:Fine cuisine|talk]]) 11:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+::to clarify, "FIE Corp" and "American Arms" were just different importing companies; these were all made by Franchi. I wouldn't necessarily take an esoteric blog like that as gospel.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:37, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+:::Thanks, so that confirms my suspicion that the blog gave too much credit to importing companies. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 02:30, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Franchi SPAS-12: Difference between revisions

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Talk:Franchi SPAS-12: Difference between revisions

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Actually firing semiauto on film

Hindrances to adoption: The unsafe safety and shotgun doctrine

FIE Corp VS American Arms Inc.???

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