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Talk:The Untouchables (1987): Difference between revisions
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==USGI 1911s?== | |||
Did treasury agents carry USGI pistols? That is, are the Colt auto pistols portrayed in the movie M1911A1s, or commercial Government Models? Is there a record of Ness or his men carrying Super .38s rather than .45s? If the former, then the guns in use would have to be GMs, as all M1911A1s were .45s. | Did treasury agents carry USGI pistols? That is, are the Colt auto pistols portrayed in the movie M1911A1s, or commercial Government Models? Is there a record of Ness or his men carrying Super .38s rather than .45s? If the former, then the guns in use would have to be GMs, as all M1911A1s were .45s. | ||
:I don't know if Ness or his men used .38 Supers, but those were popular during the gangster era as only they and the .357 magnum revolvers could penetrate the early ballistic vests worn by some gangsters during the period. | :I don't know if Ness or his men used .38 Supers, but those were popular during the gangster era as only they and the .357 magnum revolvers could penetrate the early ballistic vests worn by some gangsters during the period. | ||
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The article says the Mounties used P-14 British rifles, which would make since, but I would think since Canada is our neighbor (''Bonjour Voisin''), they would maybe use the Enfield M1917 rifle. I don't really think so, but it's would discussing. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | The article says the Mounties used P-14 British rifles, which would make since, but I would think since Canada is our neighbor (''Bonjour Voisin''), they would maybe use the Enfield M1917 rifle. I don't really think so, but it's would discussing. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | ||
:The rifles are M1917 Enfield's as Ellis Mercantile who supplied the weapons for the show only had one P14 Enfield in their inventory. - [[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 21:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Canada received some M1917s (and P14s, for that matter) during WW2 as substitute standard weapons to free up Lee-Enfields for use in Europe (which mainly went to the RCAF) but neither were ever a primary-issue weapon in the army and were never issued to the RCMP. Canadian issued (as well as British) M1917s has a red band painted around the stock to identify that they were in a non-standard caliber. In the 30s the RCMP would have been using SMLEs and the Colt New Service revolver in .455 in the West and .45 Colt in the East. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]] | |||
:::Yes, but the movie is set durring the prohibition era before World War II. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 23:08, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::Yeah, that'd be my point. They shouldn't be using the M1917 OR the P14. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]] | |||
:::So, should the thumbnail of the New Service be replaced with the .455 version, since that is what was the RCMP actually used, or did Ellis Mercantile only have .45 ACP New Services in their inventory and thus what the actors actually used? --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 14:04, 20 March 2014 (EDT) | |||
::They are M1917 that are in the screencaps.-[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 23:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::Listen. First, Canada relied on the UK alot back then, so it would make since for them to have P-14 rifles and they have always had close relations with the U.S., so it would make since if they had M1917 Rifles. Secondly, Prohibition was after World War I, so the Americans and British may given their excess weapons (P-14's and M1917's). I want to make sure that we get down what kind of rifles they have so we can have accurate infomation. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 23:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Well, based on Pheonixent's information we know what they were in the movie. And based on the fact that I collect Canadian service rifles and know exactly what we were using at any given time, we know what they had in real life. Canada did not have any P14 or M1917 Enfield rifles until WW2, as during WW1 the training role was filled by the Ross Mk.II, and then the Mk.III when it was pulled from front line service. Canada and the US did not have close relations in terms of defence until the Ogdensburg agreement in 1940, in fact when we purchased 1911s direct from Colt in 1914 they had to be smuggled across the border. Regardless, the question is answered, so I don't see what you're getting upset over. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]] | |||
==Grenade== | ==Grenade== | ||
Did treasury officials normally have access to grenades? | Did treasury officials normally have access to grenades? | ||
:Are you really asking that question? No, they could not get grenade unless they got them illegally. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 19:42, 9 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
I was sarcastically pointing out that they tried to make the Treasury department look more Rambo-esq than is probably realistic. In fact it is widely accepted that Elliot Ness exageratted his exploits. | |||
Maybe they got them while raiding one of Capone's shipments. That is another possible explanation, but the real Untouchables probably never used grenades.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 09:53, 2 January 2012 (CST) | |||
==Star Model B== | |||
Was Nitti's model B the same one used in [[Pulp Fiction]]? Also, did anyone notice that Nitti's Model B only shot about 3 bullets before running empty. This happened twice.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 09:51, 2 January 2012 (CST) | |||
: The Star Model B used in [[Untouchables, The (1987)|The Untouchables]] was the exact same one used in [[Pulp Fiction]]. --[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 10:55, 3 January 2012 (CST) | |||
Thank you.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 16:01, 5 January 2012 (CST) | |||
==Mohaska== | |||
Hahaha. There is a quote by Sean Connery when he first meets Eliot Ness. His baton hits the pistol that Ness has in his shoulder rig and asks "Why the Mohaska?" Mohaska was the name of an Indian war chief (of the Iowa nation) and the spellings varied from Mahushkah, Mohaska, Mohoska and Mahaske. However it was also a 1920s slang for "gun", but it was also ''slang for your penis''. I always found it amusing that 1920s guys would question whether or not someone was packing 'a Mohaska' in their pants..... LOL.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) | |||
== Change the Colt New Service thumbnail? == | |||
Should the thumbnail for the Colt New Service be changed to the .455 Webley chambering (from the .45 ACP image currently in use), considering that is what the RCMP in the west actually used at the time? --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 03:43, 20 March 2014 (EDT) | |||
: Use the thumbnail that matches the weapon seen in the screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 17:48, 20 March 2014 (EDT) | |||
::Are we sure the New Services in the screenshot are in .45 ACP? --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 03:44, 21 March 2014 | |||
[[Image:UntouchablesWelbyMkIV-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mountie commander fires his Webley MK IV into the air.]] | |||
==Springfield M1903?== | |||
The Chicago Police Department uses [[M1903 Springfield|Springfield M1903]] rifles. I don't think this was used in the film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 03:46, 22 May 2014 (EDT) | |||
[[Image:M1903Mark1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield M1903 Mk 1 - .30-06]] | |||
Latest revision as of 23:58, 28 July 2023
USGI 1911s?
Did treasury agents carry USGI pistols? That is, are the Colt auto pistols portrayed in the movie M1911A1s, or commercial Government Models? Is there a record of Ness or his men carrying Super .38s rather than .45s? If the former, then the guns in use would have to be GMs, as all M1911A1s were .45s.
- I don't know if Ness or his men used .38 Supers, but those were popular during the gangster era as only they and the .357 magnum revolvers could penetrate the early ballistic vests worn by some gangsters during the period.
P-14 rifle or M1917 Enfield Rifle
The article says the Mounties used P-14 British rifles, which would make since, but I would think since Canada is our neighbor (Bonjour Voisin), they would maybe use the Enfield M1917 rifle. I don't really think so, but it's would discussing. - Kilgore 00:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- The rifles are M1917 Enfield's as Ellis Mercantile who supplied the weapons for the show only had one P14 Enfield in their inventory. - phoenixent 21:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- Canada received some M1917s (and P14s, for that matter) during WW2 as substitute standard weapons to free up Lee-Enfields for use in Europe (which mainly went to the RCAF) but neither were ever a primary-issue weapon in the army and were never issued to the RCMP. Canadian issued (as well as British) M1917s has a red band painted around the stock to identify that they were in a non-standard caliber. In the 30s the RCMP would have been using SMLEs and the Colt New Service revolver in .455 in the West and .45 Colt in the East. - Nyles
- Yes, but the movie is set durring the prohibition era before World War II. - Kilgore 23:08, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, that'd be my point. They shouldn't be using the M1917 OR the P14. - Nyles
- So, should the thumbnail of the New Service be replaced with the .455 version, since that is what was the RCMP actually used, or did Ellis Mercantile only have .45 ACP New Services in their inventory and thus what the actors actually used? --Maxman (talk) 14:04, 20 March 2014 (EDT)
- Yes, but the movie is set durring the prohibition era before World War II. - Kilgore 23:08, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- They are M1917 that are in the screencaps.-phoenixent 23:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- Listen. First, Canada relied on the UK alot back then, so it would make since for them to have P-14 rifles and they have always had close relations with the U.S., so it would make since if they had M1917 Rifles. Secondly, Prohibition was after World War I, so the Americans and British may given their excess weapons (P-14's and M1917's). I want to make sure that we get down what kind of rifles they have so we can have accurate infomation. - Kilgore 23:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
- Canada received some M1917s (and P14s, for that matter) during WW2 as substitute standard weapons to free up Lee-Enfields for use in Europe (which mainly went to the RCAF) but neither were ever a primary-issue weapon in the army and were never issued to the RCMP. Canadian issued (as well as British) M1917s has a red band painted around the stock to identify that they were in a non-standard caliber. In the 30s the RCMP would have been using SMLEs and the Colt New Service revolver in .455 in the West and .45 Colt in the East. - Nyles
- Well, based on Pheonixent's information we know what they were in the movie. And based on the fact that I collect Canadian service rifles and know exactly what we were using at any given time, we know what they had in real life. Canada did not have any P14 or M1917 Enfield rifles until WW2, as during WW1 the training role was filled by the Ross Mk.II, and then the Mk.III when it was pulled from front line service. Canada and the US did not have close relations in terms of defence until the Ogdensburg agreement in 1940, in fact when we purchased 1911s direct from Colt in 1914 they had to be smuggled across the border. Regardless, the question is answered, so I don't see what you're getting upset over. - Nyles
Grenade
Did treasury officials normally have access to grenades?
- Are you really asking that question? No, they could not get grenade unless they got them illegally. - Kilgore 19:42, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I was sarcastically pointing out that they tried to make the Treasury department look more Rambo-esq than is probably realistic. In fact it is widely accepted that Elliot Ness exageratted his exploits.
Maybe they got them while raiding one of Capone's shipments. That is another possible explanation, but the real Untouchables probably never used grenades.--Yo dawg 111 09:53, 2 January 2012 (CST)
Star Model B
Was Nitti's model B the same one used in Pulp Fiction? Also, did anyone notice that Nitti's Model B only shot about 3 bullets before running empty. This happened twice.--Yo dawg 111 09:51, 2 January 2012 (CST)
- The Star Model B used in The Untouchables was the exact same one used in Pulp Fiction. --phoenixent 10:55, 3 January 2012 (CST)
Thank you.--Yo dawg 111 16:01, 5 January 2012 (CST)
Mohaska
Hahaha. There is a quote by Sean Connery when he first meets Eliot Ness. His baton hits the pistol that Ness has in his shoulder rig and asks "Why the Mohaska?" Mohaska was the name of an Indian war chief (of the Iowa nation) and the spellings varied from Mahushkah, Mohaska, Mohoska and Mahaske. However it was also a 1920s slang for "gun", but it was also slang for your penis. I always found it amusing that 1920s guys would question whether or not someone was packing 'a Mohaska' in their pants..... LOL.... MoviePropMaster2008 (talk)
Change the Colt New Service thumbnail?
Should the thumbnail for the Colt New Service be changed to the .455 Webley chambering (from the .45 ACP image currently in use), considering that is what the RCMP in the west actually used at the time? --Maxman (talk) 03:43, 20 March 2014 (EDT)
- Use the thumbnail that matches the weapon seen in the screenshot. --Ben41 (talk) 17:48, 20 March 2014 (EDT)
Springfield M1903?
The Chicago Police Department uses Springfield M1903 rifles. I don't think this was used in the film. --Ben41 (talk) 03:46, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
