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Talk:44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shootout: Difference between revisions
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StanTheMan (talk | contribs) (→AK IRL notation: Replacing the now bad link with the Archived version, though seems the pics are gone unfortunately) |
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__TOC__<br clear=all> | |||
=Discussion= | |||
Is it just me or does the muzzle of McGregor's revolver look too big to be a .357 Magnum? (Ballistics Expert2) | |||
:- It only looks bigger on the close up of the gun - just an optical illusion. The gun is definitely a S&W 686, which is .357 only. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
<BR><BR> | |||
In the film, the AR-15 the 20" heavy barrel, but real his gun look like use 16" barrel and in fact may be a Bushmaster Dissipator | In the film, the AR-15 the 20" heavy barrel, but real his gun look like use 16" barrel and in fact may be a Bushmaster Dissipator | ||
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Seems the M37 with stock and the M870 below are very similiar seen in this angle, so may be they are both the same type/same one used? - note by teslashark | Seems the M37 with stock and the M870 below are very similiar seen in this angle, so may be they are both the same type/same one used? - note by teslashark | ||
- If you take a close look at the film image under 870, you'll notice the pump grip matches that of a standard 870, and not an Ithaca. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC) | - If you take a close look at the film image under 870, you'll notice the pump grip matches that of a standard 870, and not an Ithaca. The mag-tube endcap also matches a Remington. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC) | ||
== AR-15s == | == AR-15s == | ||
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:I'm really not sure that we should have separate entries for "AR-15 A2" and "M16A2". Since this is a movie (and since props get reused between scenes, typically), it seems likely that the AR-15s in the gun store are the same M16A2s used by the SWAT officers later. It wouldn't make sense for the armorer to bring two different types of guns that look identical to the set, just for the sake of accuracy (when the audience can't tell the difference). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC) | :I'm really not sure that we should have separate entries for "AR-15 A2" and "M16A2". Since this is a movie (and since props get reused between scenes, typically), it seems likely that the AR-15s in the gun store are the same M16A2s used by the SWAT officers later. It wouldn't make sense for the armorer to bring two different types of guns that look identical to the set, just for the sake of accuracy (when the audience can't tell the difference). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Also, the Federal AW ban just banned the NEW PRODUCTION of evil features. People could buy and sell whatever PRE-BAN stuff they had, depending on their state. All throughout the 90s Californians could buy ANY pre-ban AR-15 as long as it was not banned by the Roberti-Roos AW ban of 1989. This was BEFORE the 1999 ban, which was ONE of the reasons why Gov. Grey Davis was recalled (many things caused various groups with different agendas to hate him, but the Gun Owners worked hard for his recall). So having AR-15s in 1997 for sale in California with Preban features is not illegal (though the preban guns would be tons more expensive at the time). As long as they were NOT called AR-15 and NOT made by Colt. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
:: I am just so glad I live in the fine state of Indiana where there are none of the stupid laws like in California or in Illinois [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
is was just wondering. The two of the three AK varients were Romanian AIMS, but one was a Hungarian variant. was it a Hungarian one that was used in the actual incident or is that just what the movie armourers put in? | |||
According to Wikipedia all three were Romanian made.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 16:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
== just a little annoying == | |||
im not sure where this should go but, when this comes up on the front page it shows a pic form the colt M16A2 section the last photo and on the main page is has the caption "offices aiming their M16's" when theres a car-15 on the right, i know its a small note, but is there way to change it? | |||
==The 1911== | |||
I suspect that this is, in fact, the exact same gun used in ''[[Thief]]''. The page should probably be changed to reflect this. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 20:01, 18 February 2015 (EST) | |||
==AK IRL notation== | |||
I just undid a recent edit - a notation which is shown below - | |||
: " In reality, the Kalashnikov rifles the bandits used were semi-automatic Chinese Norinco Type 56 variants illegally converted to full-auto. In the film, they are European, with two Romanian AKs and a Hungarian AK. " | |||
This seems to state all of the guns used by Phillips and Matasareanu were Norincos, which I'm not sure is correct - I had remembered several sources stating the actual AKs used were varied; One of them was a Type 56-1 but at least one other was a Romanian-made variant, hence it's rather prominent exhibition in the film. So I just question the accuracy of this note and think it should be verified before it goes back on the main page. If we're gonna go about posting details of the actual event we should be diligent about being as accurate as possible. (On a related note, another comment above in the talk page here noted Matasareanu's custom AR in actual event as being a Bushmaster Dissipator, which I think is accurate, but again, I'd rather be sure before just putting it on the main page). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:22, 16 April 2015 (EDT) | |||
It seems that AR15.com has a thread with images of the real AKs used. Both have Romanian style stocks and one has a Romanian style handguard. | |||
[http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1687076_1997_North_Hollywood_Shootout.html AR15 thread] | |||
[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 02:47, 11 June 2015 (EDT) | |||
:: I just found a site with a detailed rundown of the rifles used. They were in fact heavily customized Norinco Rifles. | |||
[https://web.archive.org/web/20151126025448/http://www.northhollywoodshootout.com/ North Hollywood Shootout Webpage (on Wayback Machine/Internet Archive)] | |||
[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 02:57, 11 June 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::That site with the detail on the weapons is impressive. I could tell by those museum pics that the rifles were not Romanian-made (just Romanian stocks), but this guy's analysis is way better than mine would have been. | |||
:::One thing I will point out: The usage of an Eastern European bolt carrier in the first AK was one of the parts replaced as part of the full-auto conversion process. I have seen a lot of Eastern European-pattern full-auto bolt carriers for sale in the U.S. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 18:44, 11 June 2015 (EDT) | |||
: Wow, this is indeed some impressive info here - Good to have the low down on the actual weapons, especially in such detail. As I said, I didn't wanna make any notations about the weapons in the film compared to the real ones until we had it all vetted, I've heard and read a lot of differing things over the years. But this is a fantastic find, props to the author and thanks to you Rockwolf for looking it up. Hopefully in the coming days I and/or someone else can work up some stuff for the main page based on this info when we have some free time. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:23, 11 June 2015 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 20:47, 10 November 2023
Discussion
Is it just me or does the muzzle of McGregor's revolver look too big to be a .357 Magnum? (Ballistics Expert2)
- - It only looks bigger on the close up of the gun - just an optical illusion. The gun is definitely a S&W 686, which is .357 only. StanTheMan 19:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
In the film, the AR-15 the 20" heavy barrel, but real his gun look like use 16" barrel and in fact may be a Bushmaster Dissipator
Shotgun Comment
(Moved from main page)
Seems the M37 with stock and the M870 below are very similiar seen in this angle, so may be they are both the same type/same one used? - note by teslashark
- If you take a close look at the film image under 870, you'll notice the pump grip matches that of a standard 870, and not an Ithaca. The mag-tube endcap also matches a Remington. StanTheMan 03:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
AR-15s
Did anyone else notice that the AR-15 rifles acquired from the gun shop had bayonet lugs? The NHS happened in 1997, three years into the "assault weapons" ban, which banned the sale of new firearms with, amongst other things, bayonet lugs. And this was California of all places.
- I'm really not sure that we should have separate entries for "AR-15 A2" and "M16A2". Since this is a movie (and since props get reused between scenes, typically), it seems likely that the AR-15s in the gun store are the same M16A2s used by the SWAT officers later. It wouldn't make sense for the armorer to bring two different types of guns that look identical to the set, just for the sake of accuracy (when the audience can't tell the difference). -MT2008 01:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
- Also, the Federal AW ban just banned the NEW PRODUCTION of evil features. People could buy and sell whatever PRE-BAN stuff they had, depending on their state. All throughout the 90s Californians could buy ANY pre-ban AR-15 as long as it was not banned by the Roberti-Roos AW ban of 1989. This was BEFORE the 1999 ban, which was ONE of the reasons why Gov. Grey Davis was recalled (many things caused various groups with different agendas to hate him, but the Gun Owners worked hard for his recall). So having AR-15s in 1997 for sale in California with Preban features is not illegal (though the preban guns would be tons more expensive at the time). As long as they were NOT called AR-15 and NOT made by Colt. MoviePropMaster2008 02:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
- I am just so glad I live in the fine state of Indiana where there are none of the stupid laws like in California or in Illinois Excalibur01 03:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
is was just wondering. The two of the three AK varients were Romanian AIMS, but one was a Hungarian variant. was it a Hungarian one that was used in the actual incident or is that just what the movie armourers put in?
According to Wikipedia all three were Romanian made.--Lynx 16:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
just a little annoying
im not sure where this should go but, when this comes up on the front page it shows a pic form the colt M16A2 section the last photo and on the main page is has the caption "offices aiming their M16's" when theres a car-15 on the right, i know its a small note, but is there way to change it?
The 1911
I suspect that this is, in fact, the exact same gun used in Thief. The page should probably be changed to reflect this. -MT2008 (talk) 20:01, 18 February 2015 (EST)
AK IRL notation
I just undid a recent edit - a notation which is shown below -
- " In reality, the Kalashnikov rifles the bandits used were semi-automatic Chinese Norinco Type 56 variants illegally converted to full-auto. In the film, they are European, with two Romanian AKs and a Hungarian AK. "
This seems to state all of the guns used by Phillips and Matasareanu were Norincos, which I'm not sure is correct - I had remembered several sources stating the actual AKs used were varied; One of them was a Type 56-1 but at least one other was a Romanian-made variant, hence it's rather prominent exhibition in the film. So I just question the accuracy of this note and think it should be verified before it goes back on the main page. If we're gonna go about posting details of the actual event we should be diligent about being as accurate as possible. (On a related note, another comment above in the talk page here noted Matasareanu's custom AR in actual event as being a Bushmaster Dissipator, which I think is accurate, but again, I'd rather be sure before just putting it on the main page). StanTheMan (talk) 22:22, 16 April 2015 (EDT)
It seems that AR15.com has a thread with images of the real AKs used. Both have Romanian style stocks and one has a Romanian style handguard.
Rockwolf66 (talk) 02:47, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
- I just found a site with a detailed rundown of the rifles used. They were in fact heavily customized Norinco Rifles.
North Hollywood Shootout Webpage (on Wayback Machine/Internet Archive) Rockwolf66 (talk) 02:57, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
- That site with the detail on the weapons is impressive. I could tell by those museum pics that the rifles were not Romanian-made (just Romanian stocks), but this guy's analysis is way better than mine would have been.
- Wow, this is indeed some impressive info here - Good to have the low down on the actual weapons, especially in such detail. As I said, I didn't wanna make any notations about the weapons in the film compared to the real ones until we had it all vetted, I've heard and read a lot of differing things over the years. But this is a fantastic find, props to the author and thanks to you Rockwolf for looking it up. Hopefully in the coming days I and/or someone else can work up some stuff for the main page based on this info when we have some free time. StanTheMan (talk) 22:23, 11 June 2015 (EDT)