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Talk:Ghost in the Shell (1995): Difference between revisions
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==Guns== | |||
I had a good going over of this page; I feel that apart from being severely lacking in information and with several errors, using one page for three films and two TV series occupying two parallel continua was somewhat silly. I've studied the guns from the GITS series in depth; I fully intend to make pages for each film and each series in the future, and populate all of them with far more than I've cropped from here. In the meantime I'm using this to store this paragraph. | I had a good going over of this page; I feel that apart from being severely lacking in information and with several errors, using one page for three films and two TV series occupying two parallel continua was somewhat silly. I've studied the guns from the GITS series in depth; I fully intend to make pages for each film and each series in the future, and populate all of them with far more than I've cropped from here. In the meantime I'm using this to store this paragraph. | ||
In the Stand Alone Complex TV series, Togusa carries a fictional Mateba 2006M, which quite closely resembles the real Mateba Unica-6 autorevolver, a semiautomatic revolver with uses the recoil of firing to revolve the cylinder and cock the hammer. The most visible difference from the Unica-6 is a ventilated rib that the 2006M lacks, although the grip is also different. | In the Stand Alone Complex TV series, Togusa carries a fictional Mateba 2006M, which quite closely resembles the real Mateba Unica-6 autorevolver, a semiautomatic revolver with uses the recoil of firing to revolve the cylinder and cock the hammer. The most visible difference from the Unica-6 is a ventilated rib that the 2006M lacks, although the grip is also different. | ||
Sadly I'm 5500 miles from my DVDs presently so I can't really back this up with screenshots as good as I'd like to, but I'll do what I can. [[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 16:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC) | Sadly I'm 5500 miles from my DVDs presently so I can't really back this up with screenshots as good as I'd like to, but I'll do what I can. [[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 16:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
== Mateba 2006M vs. Mateba 6 Unica == | == Mateba 2006M vs. Mateba 6 Unica == | ||
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02:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | 02:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | ||
== Another rant about Togusa's gun == | |||
The article currently states: "Togusa carries yet another fictionalized version of a real gun, the Mateba 2008M, a spinoff of the 2006M variant of the Mateba model 6 Unica." This is incorrect. The 2006M is not a variant of the 6 Unica, they are very different models. In fact the 2006M was built starting from the early 80s while the 6 Unica became available as recently as the late 90s. The biggest difference between those two guns is that the 6 Unica has a slide and is capable of semi-automatic fire while the 2006M can only be fired as single- or double action. | |||
One thing I'm not sure about is the naming. Does anybody have an official source saying that this particular gun from the movie is supposed to be called 2008? I have seen the artbooks for SAC and they call Togusa's gun from SAC a 2008, but that is a different gun. It would be strange if the creators gave the same number to two different guns. Also there is an airsoft replica which calls itself 2007 and claims to be officially licensed: http://www.marushin-kk.co.jp/itemmateba.html | |||
21:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
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Also: What's a Unit-B? | Also: What's a Unit-B? | ||
19:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | 19:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | ||
It's an M22 because the official manual calls it an M22. What the voice actor pronounces is a different matter. I checked, there is no M23 in the Ghost in the shell universe [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] | |||
What is this official manual and comprehensive list of all guns in the GitS universe that you are talking about? 22:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
I can't read Japanese, but it's written in the official guide to the Ghost in the Shell universe a friend of mine has. In it listed most things like guns in English including numbers. I have read in other sources online that it is called M-23, but most places has M22 written down. A site that makes airsoft shells of anime guns and it is a Japanese site, calls it M22 or the 9Weapon. So, unless we find some way to ask the creator what the official designation, I'm sticking with M22 because it's the most hits on a search engine over M23. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] | |||
== HV Ammo == | |||
While the article featuring the Micro Uzi is correct in asserting that High Velocity ammunition wouldn't foul the gun's bore, '''HV''' stands for '''Hyper-Velocity''' in GITS canon, the next logical step in pushing performance of conventional ballistics. Even so, a gun would disassemble itself long before sliding its firer backwards along the ground due to the party-pooper known more commonly as 'physics'. A clear demonstration of the distinction between High and Hyper-velocity is the effect the rounds have on the armored van Togusa and Kusanagi arrive in, discharging an incredible amount of energy into the body of the vehicle before the explosive charges take effect. Unless, of course, the explosion was a dramatically-delayed, cinematic result of a fuel-tank puncture, which still speaks volumes of the rounds' impossible penetrating power. [[User: AnomylousAnonymous]] | |||
wat? In order for rounds to have more velocity without changing barrel lenghts or without adding a silencer is to make the rounds hotter, in other words more powder. Adding too much can damage the gun, for example the bolt slamming back and forth too fast and damaging the frame, upper reciever, etc.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
^ That sounds like a more compact version of my statement. Not sure what you mean about adding a silencer increasing a round's velocity, though. That's just... wrong. [[User: AnomylousAnonymous]] | |||
::Which is why you don't load fancy schmancy ammo types in older style guns. You're just asking for the gun to blow up in your hands. [[User: Young Gun]] | |||
The Hypervelocity Ammo should be addressed at some point. Unfortunately, it's never shown in the film, but the 9mm HV ammo are actually bottlenecked 9mm cartridges to be fitted with a 4-5mm pointed-tip penetrator round, but use a sabot ring around the projectile, so it can still be fired in a 9mm gun. It's kinda goofy-looking and I don't know if it could work in real life. --[[User:Blitzen|Blitzen]] ([[User talk:Blitzen|talk]]) 07:43, 20 July 2013 (EDT) | |||
:This concept exists in real life, at the very least there have been 12.7mm round with a 7.62 bullet in a sabot, and 7.62x51mm rounds with a 5.56mm in a sabot. I think they were developed in the 80s, but only the 12.7mm was successful with the 7.62mm one having issue (I heard the sabot could break apart in the barrel waking the bullet go crazy and in same cases wrecking the gun). I have a 7.62mm one in my bullet collection, it has a steel case for some reason, might be higher pressure or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:25, 20 July 2013 (EDT) | |||
It's probably just +P+ ammo with saboted penetrators, probably similar to the SLAP, except on a... I suppose ''bigger'' scale, since 9mm is thicker than 7.62, but you know what I mean. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 21:46, 13 January 2021 (EST) | |||
Latest revision as of 02:46, 14 January 2021
Guns
I had a good going over of this page; I feel that apart from being severely lacking in information and with several errors, using one page for three films and two TV series occupying two parallel continua was somewhat silly. I've studied the guns from the GITS series in depth; I fully intend to make pages for each film and each series in the future, and populate all of them with far more than I've cropped from here. In the meantime I'm using this to store this paragraph.
In the Stand Alone Complex TV series, Togusa carries a fictional Mateba 2006M, which quite closely resembles the real Mateba Unica-6 autorevolver, a semiautomatic revolver with uses the recoil of firing to revolve the cylinder and cock the hammer. The most visible difference from the Unica-6 is a ventilated rib that the 2006M lacks, although the grip is also different.
Sadly I'm 5500 miles from my DVDs presently so I can't really back this up with screenshots as good as I'd like to, but I'll do what I can. YourMessageHere 16:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Mateba 2006M vs. Mateba 6 Unica
Togusa's revolver is modeled after the Mateba 2006M. This is a real gun and it is different from the Mateba 6 Unica Autorevolver. To reload 2006M you swing out the cylinder upwards to the left, just like in the movie. The 6 Unica's cylinder moves downward instead. Also, the top of the Unica's frame is open, which is clearly not the case for Togusa's gun.
Hence Togusa's Mateba/Matever resembles a 2006M and not a 6 Unica.
Youtube video comparing both revolvers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0zxgyim_g4
02:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Another rant about Togusa's gun
The article currently states: "Togusa carries yet another fictionalized version of a real gun, the Mateba 2008M, a spinoff of the 2006M variant of the Mateba model 6 Unica." This is incorrect. The 2006M is not a variant of the 6 Unica, they are very different models. In fact the 2006M was built starting from the early 80s while the 6 Unica became available as recently as the late 90s. The biggest difference between those two guns is that the 6 Unica has a slide and is capable of semi-automatic fire while the 2006M can only be fired as single- or double action.
One thing I'm not sure about is the naming. Does anybody have an official source saying that this particular gun from the movie is supposed to be called 2008? I have seen the artbooks for SAC and they call Togusa's gun from SAC a 2008, but that is a different gun. It would be strange if the creators gave the same number to two different guns. Also there is an airsoft replica which calls itself 2007 and claims to be officially licensed: http://www.marushin-kk.co.jp/itemmateba.html 21:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
The P90 does not field strip like the M22
According to one of the caps, it shows them field stripping an M22 where it swings open forward like an AR-15. The FN P90 that the M22 is based off of does not open forward and tilt on a hinge. The front of of a P90 just comes apart forward from the rest of the body. Here's a vid of a PS90 (The civi P90) being field stripped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IhG1o1bz_I Excalibur01
M22 vs. M23
Motoko Kusanagi calls her weapon M23 (you can hear her pronouncing it as "ni-san", meaning "two-three") and it is translated as M-23 in all english subtitles that I have. Why does the article call this weapon M22?
- バトー「装備は？」
- 草薙「M23とユニットB。」
- Batou: Equipment?
- Kusanagi: M23 and UnittoB
Also: What's a Unit-B? 19:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
It's an M22 because the official manual calls it an M22. What the voice actor pronounces is a different matter. I checked, there is no M23 in the Ghost in the shell universe Excalibur01
What is this official manual and comprehensive list of all guns in the GitS universe that you are talking about? 22:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I can't read Japanese, but it's written in the official guide to the Ghost in the Shell universe a friend of mine has. In it listed most things like guns in English including numbers. I have read in other sources online that it is called M-23, but most places has M22 written down. A site that makes airsoft shells of anime guns and it is a Japanese site, calls it M22 or the 9Weapon. So, unless we find some way to ask the creator what the official designation, I'm sticking with M22 because it's the most hits on a search engine over M23. Excalibur01
HV Ammo
While the article featuring the Micro Uzi is correct in asserting that High Velocity ammunition wouldn't foul the gun's bore, HV stands for Hyper-Velocity in GITS canon, the next logical step in pushing performance of conventional ballistics. Even so, a gun would disassemble itself long before sliding its firer backwards along the ground due to the party-pooper known more commonly as 'physics'. A clear demonstration of the distinction between High and Hyper-velocity is the effect the rounds have on the armored van Togusa and Kusanagi arrive in, discharging an incredible amount of energy into the body of the vehicle before the explosive charges take effect. Unless, of course, the explosion was a dramatically-delayed, cinematic result of a fuel-tank puncture, which still speaks volumes of the rounds' impossible penetrating power. User: AnomylousAnonymous
wat? In order for rounds to have more velocity without changing barrel lenghts or without adding a silencer is to make the rounds hotter, in other words more powder. Adding too much can damage the gun, for example the bolt slamming back and forth too fast and damaging the frame, upper reciever, etc.--FIVETWOSEVEN 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
^ That sounds like a more compact version of my statement. Not sure what you mean about adding a silencer increasing a round's velocity, though. That's just... wrong. User: AnomylousAnonymous
- Which is why you don't load fancy schmancy ammo types in older style guns. You're just asking for the gun to blow up in your hands. User: Young Gun
The Hypervelocity Ammo should be addressed at some point. Unfortunately, it's never shown in the film, but the 9mm HV ammo are actually bottlenecked 9mm cartridges to be fitted with a 4-5mm pointed-tip penetrator round, but use a sabot ring around the projectile, so it can still be fired in a 9mm gun. It's kinda goofy-looking and I don't know if it could work in real life. --Blitzen (talk) 07:43, 20 July 2013 (EDT)
- This concept exists in real life, at the very least there have been 12.7mm round with a 7.62 bullet in a sabot, and 7.62x51mm rounds with a 5.56mm in a sabot. I think they were developed in the 80s, but only the 12.7mm was successful with the 7.62mm one having issue (I heard the sabot could break apart in the barrel waking the bullet go crazy and in same cases wrecking the gun). I have a 7.62mm one in my bullet collection, it has a steel case for some reason, might be higher pressure or something. --commando552 (talk) 14:25, 20 July 2013 (EDT)
It's probably just +P+ ammo with saboted penetrators, probably similar to the SLAP, except on a... I suppose bigger scale, since 9mm is thicker than 7.62, but you know what I mean. --yocapo32 (talk) 21:46, 13 January 2021 (EST)