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Talk:Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne: Difference between revisions
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What exactly is this handgun ? | ==Description is misleading... and wrong== | ||
Yeah, sorry I know this is random but... | |||
"Two years after the events of the first game in the series, Max has cleared his name and works now a detective for the NYPD. The story follows him, once again trying to clear his name: This time he is framed for killing his partner, Winterson." | |||
First, that's a bit redundant. "cleared his name "trying to clear his name." It reads badly. | |||
Second, he wasn't framed for killing his partner Winterson. He DID kill his partner Winterson. | |||
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] | |||
:Yeah, isn't it Mona who's being framed for killing someone? Also, Max didn't clear his name, the shadowy conspiracy guys did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 2 November 2011 (CDT) | |||
::Correct. I'm... changing this. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] | |||
==What exactly is this handgun ?== | |||
[[Image:Mp2colt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An unknown handgun is seen in the hands of a character in the extreme right]] | [[Image:Mp2colt.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An unknown handgun is seen in the hands of a character in the extreme right]] | ||
| Line 12: | Line 22: | ||
How about that? Just don't zoom in. :P --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] | How about that? Just don't zoom in. :P --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] | ||
[[Image:MP2customEagle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An inexpertly crafted Pshop of the MP2 Desert Eagle.]] | [[Image:MP2customEagle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An inexpertly crafted Pshop of the MP2 Desert Eagle.]] | ||
:It's not too bad. Someone with more photoshop experience could help you make better grips. I've noticed that Vlad keeps one as his signature pistol as well. During the "That old familiar feeling" level Vlad drops it when both he and Max crash through the floor. Vlad curses his bad luck at not having a gun when Max is vulnerable and flees, not knowing that Max has landed on top of Vlad's gun, swearing he'll "give it back to [Vlad], one bullet at a time!".--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Yeah, I couldn't copy paste the grips so I just smeared 'em on! I had a marathon gaming session the other day, and took a huge load of screen caps from the second half of the game, only to find out that my screen shot button wasn't working. Major drag. I'll get around to finishing the rest of the page. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] | |||
:::As you can see, I have replaced ManiacallyChallenged's Photoshopped Desert Eagle with what I believe to have been the exact same Desert Eagle that inspired the texture artists and 3D modelers who worked on ''Max Payne 2''. This one belongs to Rick Washburn's Weapons Specialists, Ltd. in New York and was originally used in ''[[The Sopranos]]''. | |||
:::Also, I wonder if the artists who did this game actually went to Weapons Specialists and rented weapons from their inventory to use as references and for texture photographing? The fact that their Desert Eagle looks just like the one that Washburn provided for ''[[The Sopranos]]'' is a pretty big hint, and so is the fact that the game's MP5 is actually a partially-converted HK94A3. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] | |||
:::Hmm, when did this gun first appear in the Sopranos? Were the developers of Max Payne 2 fans of the show? The game was released in 2003 and the Sopranos first aired in 1999. Maybe if you contacted that specific armourer you could verify whether Rockstar approached them for weapons they could reference from way back in 2003. Sadly it looks like they couldn't actually get anyone in the know to show them the proper method of reloading some of them, like how the Striker Shotgun's reload method isn't accurately portrayed. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:14, 29 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::The "Pine Barrens" episode in The Sopranos aired in '01. That's my favorite episode from the series.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:24, 29 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::I've never seen that episode of ''The Sopranos'' (I've only seen a few episodes of the show). But it seems quite likely to me that they must have gone to Weapons Specialists and photographed the Desert Eagle used in ''The Sopranos''. Rockstar is based in New York City, and so is Weapons Specialists (they are pretty much ''the'' armory that caters to all of the productions done in the Northeast - NYC, Boston, etc.) Plus, again, the use of the partially-converted HK94A3 is a big clue. Before MPM took the picture of the gun we have on our site, there were no pictures of the partial HK94-to-MP5 conversions anywhere on the 'Net (believe me, I checked). The only place you'd find a gun like that to photograph would be in a movie armory. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::That's interesting. Still, I think at least a few people here (MPM2008 among them) could just place a phone call to those people and confirm once and for all whether Rockstar used their weapons. Would be nice to have around on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::They have a web site, which is where I found the picture. They may or not respond to emails. I'm also not sure if they'll be OK with us using any of their gun pictures. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:39, 30 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Desert Eagle caliber == | |||
So which caliber is the Deagle exactly ? Two shot kills and 9+1 capacity indicate .357 Magnum but the model suggests .50 AE | |||
:- The caliber isn't explicit, possibly because of those reasons. It's partly assumed to be .357 because of the magazine capacity. But it's also assumed to be .50AE because of the model and it's markings, though I personally think that's an oversight.I myself would say it's .357 and as for it looking like the .50AE variant, including markings, that is most probably just because the designers modeled the weapon off a .50AE variant - Game weapon models aren't known to be excessively precise to the exact weapons they represent. In any case, again, the game isn't explicit about what caliber the game weapon actually is, so I'm afraid you might not get an answer. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
== The Kalashnikov == | |||
While the AK in the game looks like a Type 56 it could just as easily be a Hungarian model judging by the color of the wood on the grips. Plus, it has the standard AKM slant compensator. I could be wrong about this, so feel free to clarify. Hughjefender | |||
:- I think some more pics of the in-game AK would be needed here. Wood color isn't a real good attribute to judge one variant from another. The slanted compensator is a good detail to judge with, but numerous AK types can be (and indeed have been) fitted with the slanted compensators so it doesn't really tell us much of anything. In any case, only Chinese-made AKs have full-hooded front sights, so that the deciding detail - If that's what the game weapon has, it can only be a Type 56. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
It has a full-hooded front sight, so it's a Type 56. - Scott, 13. September 2010 | |||
==Bye-bye Gamespot== | |||
I have swapped the Gamespot images with my screenshots without any stupid watermarks and also added images for the missing weapons. Unfortunately I did not upload new versions of the Gamespot images, so now those three images are unused. Could anyone delete these? | |||
* Mp2m870.jpg | |||
* Mp2striker.jpg | |||
* Mp2striker2.jpg | |||
[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 21:59, 13 March 2011 (MSK) | |||
== M4A1? == | |||
I don't think so. Look at the muzzle brake. The barrel is also longer, especially noticeable in a graphic novel panel when carried by police officers. If anything it's a Bushmaster or another civilian AR15 carbine. | |||
--[[User:Jovantheun1337|Jovantheun1337]] 19:23, 2 April 2011 (CDT) | |||
== Anyone spot the incredibly clever joke in the funhouse level? == | |||
I'll explain if nobody did, it's to do with how the level is designed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:48, 26 September 2011 (CDT) | |||
:Does the level's layout spell something? It's difficult to tell this without a level editor. I still have a copy of this game, so I'll take a look into it. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT) | |||
::I would love to get this game on my PC sometime soon. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:36, 26 September 2011 (CDT) | |||
:What exactly is the joke? I recently re-played this game for shoots and googles after I saw the MP3 trailer, but I don't see anything out of the ordinary about any of the three funhouse levels. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 15:43, 26 September 2011 (CDT) | |||
:Just played it and I didnt notice anything. Which funhouse level you mean, the first (when there is no shooting), or when you play as Max or later when Mona rescues Max? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:28, 5 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
Ok, it's basically the same gag as the "funny as hell" scenes in the original (where Max realises he's in a videogame) but done far more subtley. For a start, I think sections of the level are actually lifted from the original game's maps, but that's not the joke; the joke is that this funhouse is designed in exactly the same way as all the other levels; walls that only have the right texture on one side, completely fixed events happening in fixed locations, and so on. You even go "behind the scenes" and find there's a physics demo room. It's a joke about the artificial nature of level design in general, that in any linear shooter a level is built just like a funhouse. When it comes time for your to fight there, they just put enemies in the big rooms that contain the funhouse's "events." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:33, 6 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
:That's pretty cool. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:31, 6 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
I suppose it makes sense that the funhouse is really just a metaphor for video games in general (i.e., video game NPCs are not that far removed from "badly drawn cardboard badasses" and video game landscapes really are just one-sided hollow entities like the backdrops in the funhouse) but I think that the "linear sequence of scares" bit has been superseded ever since randomized encounters were put into gaming. Regardless, it's not really a secret joke, more of a hidden metaphor or criticism about how fake video games are. Regardless, the emotions and stories they impart to us are real enough, and that is what matters. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:40, 7 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
:True to that. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:13, 9 October 2011 (CDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 01:00, 6 November 2011
Description is misleading... and wrong
Yeah, sorry I know this is random but... "Two years after the events of the first game in the series, Max has cleared his name and works now a detective for the NYPD. The story follows him, once again trying to clear his name: This time he is framed for killing his partner, Winterson." First, that's a bit redundant. "cleared his name "trying to clear his name." It reads badly. Second, he wasn't framed for killing his partner Winterson. He DID kill his partner Winterson. --ManiacallyChallenged
- Yeah, isn't it Mona who's being framed for killing someone? Also, Max didn't clear his name, the shadowy conspiracy guys did. Evil Tim 03:19, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
- Correct. I'm... changing this. --ManiacallyChallenged
What exactly is this handgun ?
Given where the scope's mounted and the look of the thing, I think it's a scoped Desert Eagle; the part you're seeing as a revolver cylinder is actually the gripped area around the safety lever. Vangelis 10:22, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- That's a picture of the game when it was still in development. Hence the Colt M733 instead of the M4 and the scope on the Desert Eagle.-Oliveira 17:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
REDO
I have no idea if anyone cares at this point, but I might redo this page. I have the PC version, which has high quality screenshots from things that actually are in the game. So we can stop using those Gamespot pictures of questionable legality and relevance. Lemme know what you think if you care. --ManiacallyChallenged
- Work in progress, will finish it after getting the rest of the needed screenshots. --ManiacallyChallenged
Custom Desert Eagle XIX
How about that? Just don't zoom in. :P --ManiacallyChallenged
- It's not too bad. Someone with more photoshop experience could help you make better grips. I've noticed that Vlad keeps one as his signature pistol as well. During the "That old familiar feeling" level Vlad drops it when both he and Max crash through the floor. Vlad curses his bad luck at not having a gun when Max is vulnerable and flees, not knowing that Max has landed on top of Vlad's gun, swearing he'll "give it back to [Vlad], one bullet at a time!".--Mazryonh 04:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I couldn't copy paste the grips so I just smeared 'em on! I had a marathon gaming session the other day, and took a huge load of screen caps from the second half of the game, only to find out that my screen shot button wasn't working. Major drag. I'll get around to finishing the rest of the page. --ManiacallyChallenged
- As you can see, I have replaced ManiacallyChallenged's Photoshopped Desert Eagle with what I believe to have been the exact same Desert Eagle that inspired the texture artists and 3D modelers who worked on Max Payne 2. This one belongs to Rick Washburn's Weapons Specialists, Ltd. in New York and was originally used in The Sopranos.
- Also, I wonder if the artists who did this game actually went to Weapons Specialists and rented weapons from their inventory to use as references and for texture photographing? The fact that their Desert Eagle looks just like the one that Washburn provided for The Sopranos is a pretty big hint, and so is the fact that the game's MP5 is actually a partially-converted HK94A3. -MT2008
- Hmm, when did this gun first appear in the Sopranos? Were the developers of Max Payne 2 fans of the show? The game was released in 2003 and the Sopranos first aired in 1999. Maybe if you contacted that specific armourer you could verify whether Rockstar approached them for weapons they could reference from way back in 2003. Sadly it looks like they couldn't actually get anyone in the know to show them the proper method of reloading some of them, like how the Striker Shotgun's reload method isn't accurately portrayed. --Mazryonh 23:14, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
- The "Pine Barrens" episode in The Sopranos aired in '01. That's my favorite episode from the series.--Predator20 23:24, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
- I've never seen that episode of The Sopranos (I've only seen a few episodes of the show). But it seems quite likely to me that they must have gone to Weapons Specialists and photographed the Desert Eagle used in The Sopranos. Rockstar is based in New York City, and so is Weapons Specialists (they are pretty much the armory that caters to all of the productions done in the Northeast - NYC, Boston, etc.) Plus, again, the use of the partially-converted HK94A3 is a big clue. Before MPM took the picture of the gun we have on our site, there were no pictures of the partial HK94-to-MP5 conversions anywhere on the 'Net (believe me, I checked). The only place you'd find a gun like that to photograph would be in a movie armory. -MT2008 23:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
- That's interesting. Still, I think at least a few people here (MPM2008 among them) could just place a phone call to those people and confirm once and for all whether Rockstar used their weapons. Would be nice to have around on this wiki. --Mazryonh 00:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- They have a web site, which is where I found the picture. They may or not respond to emails. I'm also not sure if they'll be OK with us using any of their gun pictures. -MT2008 01:39, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Desert Eagle caliber
So which caliber is the Deagle exactly ? Two shot kills and 9+1 capacity indicate .357 Magnum but the model suggests .50 AE
- - The caliber isn't explicit, possibly because of those reasons. It's partly assumed to be .357 because of the magazine capacity. But it's also assumed to be .50AE because of the model and it's markings, though I personally think that's an oversight.I myself would say it's .357 and as for it looking like the .50AE variant, including markings, that is most probably just because the designers modeled the weapon off a .50AE variant - Game weapon models aren't known to be excessively precise to the exact weapons they represent. In any case, again, the game isn't explicit about what caliber the game weapon actually is, so I'm afraid you might not get an answer. StanTheMan 16:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
The Kalashnikov
While the AK in the game looks like a Type 56 it could just as easily be a Hungarian model judging by the color of the wood on the grips. Plus, it has the standard AKM slant compensator. I could be wrong about this, so feel free to clarify. Hughjefender
- - I think some more pics of the in-game AK would be needed here. Wood color isn't a real good attribute to judge one variant from another. The slanted compensator is a good detail to judge with, but numerous AK types can be (and indeed have been) fitted with the slanted compensators so it doesn't really tell us much of anything. In any case, only Chinese-made AKs have full-hooded front sights, so that the deciding detail - If that's what the game weapon has, it can only be a Type 56. StanTheMan 21:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It has a full-hooded front sight, so it's a Type 56. - Scott, 13. September 2010
Bye-bye Gamespot
I have swapped the Gamespot images with my screenshots without any stupid watermarks and also added images for the missing weapons. Unfortunately I did not upload new versions of the Gamespot images, so now those three images are unused. Could anyone delete these?
- Mp2m870.jpg
- Mp2striker.jpg
- Mp2striker2.jpg
bozitojugg3rn4ut 21:59, 13 March 2011 (MSK)
M4A1?
I don't think so. Look at the muzzle brake. The barrel is also longer, especially noticeable in a graphic novel panel when carried by police officers. If anything it's a Bushmaster or another civilian AR15 carbine. --Jovantheun1337 19:23, 2 April 2011 (CDT)
Anyone spot the incredibly clever joke in the funhouse level?
I'll explain if nobody did, it's to do with how the level is designed. Evil Tim 08:48, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
- Does the level's layout spell something? It's difficult to tell this without a level editor. I still have a copy of this game, so I'll take a look into it. --Mazryonh 11:02, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
- I would love to get this game on my PC sometime soon. - Mr. Wolf 14:36, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
- What exactly is the joke? I recently re-played this game for shoots and googles after I saw the MP3 trailer, but I don't see anything out of the ordinary about any of the three funhouse levels. --ZeoRanger5 15:43, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
- Just played it and I didnt notice anything. Which funhouse level you mean, the first (when there is no shooting), or when you play as Max or later when Mona rescues Max? - bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:28, 5 October 2011 (CDT)
Ok, it's basically the same gag as the "funny as hell" scenes in the original (where Max realises he's in a videogame) but done far more subtley. For a start, I think sections of the level are actually lifted from the original game's maps, but that's not the joke; the joke is that this funhouse is designed in exactly the same way as all the other levels; walls that only have the right texture on one side, completely fixed events happening in fixed locations, and so on. You even go "behind the scenes" and find there's a physics demo room. It's a joke about the artificial nature of level design in general, that in any linear shooter a level is built just like a funhouse. When it comes time for your to fight there, they just put enemies in the big rooms that contain the funhouse's "events." Evil Tim 01:33, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
- That's pretty cool. =) - Mr. Wolf 14:31, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
I suppose it makes sense that the funhouse is really just a metaphor for video games in general (i.e., video game NPCs are not that far removed from "badly drawn cardboard badasses" and video game landscapes really are just one-sided hollow entities like the backdrops in the funhouse) but I think that the "linear sequence of scares" bit has been superseded ever since randomized encounters were put into gaming. Regardless, it's not really a secret joke, more of a hidden metaphor or criticism about how fake video games are. Regardless, the emotions and stories they impart to us are real enough, and that is what matters. --Mazryonh 21:40, 7 October 2011 (CDT)
- True to that. :) - Mr. Wolf 02:13, 9 October 2011 (CDT)